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Dragons' Den (UK) - Season 22 Episode 10
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00:00the doors to the den are open once again
00:09and our five multi-millionaires are keen to dig deep and invest their cash
00:17to help the next generation of entrepreneurs find fortune and glory
00:22they'll occasionally be joined by some special guests including health and fitness heavyweight
00:30joe wicks barlett come on give him a chance don't talk yourself out of it i'm fighting for you i'm
00:36rooting for you and superstar fashion founder emma greed i would happily give you the 250 grand
00:42but i wouldn't do it for one percent now the hunt is on to find the next big deal
00:48hi i'm dr samuel bailey and i'm from london i am a serial inventor i've always liked making things
01:04quite often i'll wake up in the middle of the night there's a problem i was working on it was 2am
01:08and suddenly i was like i've got it that's the solution to the problem my house is a little
01:14bit of a laboratory so our house has prototype heating systems um it's got prototype plumbing
01:20systems we've had this product that we presented today being tested uh on myself and on my family
01:26for the last five years i'd love for something i make to you know make a significant difference
01:32to people's lives i think this product can be one of them because it can really really help people
01:37a lot and be in hundreds of millions of homes across the world
01:40i'm very nice to meet you dragons i'm dr samuel bailey and i'm here to pitch
01:51for a hundred thousand pound investment in return for five percent of the equity in my company
01:56pippa technologies last year the uko fire and rescue service attended 10 500 cooking fires
02:03cooking is the number one cause of fires in the home responsible for just under half of all house
02:09fires so i invented pippa pippa is an ai pad cooking monitor that can tell whether something dangerous
02:17is going to happen on the stove several minutes before it actually happens pippa knows whether the
02:22pan is going to burn or whether you've stopped cooking and left the stove on pippa simply sticks to
02:27the wall above the stove and monitors the temperature of each of the pans if the pan started to burn
02:31pippa simply speaks a warning warning stove left on and sends an alarm to alert you if you've left
02:40home or you're out of hearing pippa can phone and text you or a carer to warn of the danger
02:44pippa is also part of a connected ecosystem there is a smart cooking assistant app that provides guided
02:49cooking and there's a risk monitoring system that can identify whether people are starting to become
02:53a danger to themselves and perhaps need extra help if i may can i give you a pippa to have a look at
02:58an ai hob and stove monitor that helps prevent fires and assists with cooking
03:06is the offering from dr samuel bailey thank you thank you he's looking for an investment
03:14of a hundred thousand pounds in exchange for a five percent share of his company
03:19deborah meaden is first to find out if the entrepreneur is as smart as his device
03:25so dr samuel bailey do i call you dr samuel bailey or sam yes sam thank you um what what's in your
03:38background what are you a doctor of that enables you to uh to invent this okay um so i'm not a medical
03:46doctor i have a phd in computer science uh so i've worked for various large electronics companies on
03:52ai intelligence uh early self-driving cars and i started a company about 10 years ago to develop
04:00a renewable heating system that invented we then invented a product called leak bot and they're
04:06trying to detect a leak in the pipes basically before it causes damage in the home and that's given
04:12there's enough investment that we could then build pippa can you just explain um give me some
04:17financial i'd like to understand the size of the business at the moment okay so um we've probably
04:23invested about four hundred thousand pounds into the r&d um now what we're doing is exploring you know
04:30where's the best place to get this to market um and we're starting to target care home operators
04:35and councils uh to try and get it into so your pre-revenue yeah we've we've probably got revenue
04:42about sixty thousand pounds all right yeah pretty much pre-revenue all right and what will it cost for
04:48uh for a unit to to buy uh so they're currently retail 180 including vat all right so it's a chunky
04:55sum of money it's a chunky sum of money at the moment if we hit volume we can get the cost down
04:59and we'd love to get it so volume currently manufacture for about 90 pounds we may get
05:06down to 25 30 right so a bit a really big order and once you start getting at scale then it becomes
05:10much more within people's reach and the price that you're talking at the moment that includes
05:15all of the software so the what you're looking at there is the smart cooking app yeah that's free
05:20that's what we usually do is we bundle so if you want the text messages or the automated phone
05:26messages currently we charge 39 pounds a year for people to get that service and which ai platform
05:33are you using so um it's all our own software is it yeah uh and the software runs entirely in the
05:40device so that has got a chip in there that's about a dollar 40 and runs all the ai on that single
05:47processor um it's just more efficient more reliable when you say sam sorry sam when you say ai what do
05:54mean what what type of ai are you referring to so uh there's different types of ai um this is a
06:02classifier so a classifier is something that recognizes things so it might be something like
06:07a self-driving car can recognize an obstruction um what this is doing is it's classified is this a
06:13hazard is this not a hazard so what is classified as a hazard then is it an oil fire is it just that
06:20there's heat on and someone has walked away uh so it's looking for three main things one is that the
06:26oil is going to approach its auto ignition temperature so if i put a pan of oil on the
06:30stove at about 240c it'll start to smoke what we actually do is we alarm at about 230c um hits close
06:37to 400 it ignites yeah so what we actually do is we the classifier's going okay that's that pan's got
06:42oil in it the hazard with an oil pan is that it hits this auto ignition temperature so we pre-warn
06:46you um if it sees that something's boiling on there if we see that it's starting to boil dry
06:51that's the point at which your food's going to combust and then it warns you um and then what
06:56it also does is it can tell the difference between a gas flame and then a flame from a tea towel um so
07:01if it sees flames it can detect those in 20 to 30 seconds um on the box it says smarter and safer
07:08cooking yes i this weekend i made some food right yep and on the packaging it said that i had to heat
07:15the oil to a certain 170 degrees it said and it said keep it there yeah now i was sat there thinking
07:22this weekend i was like how am i going to know if it's 170 the oil yep there you go the paper smart
07:26cooking up see this is interesting because you can not only prevent hazards but you can also
07:31help people as this technology develops cook better yes
07:35sam what what other things do you do what other businesses are you involved with
07:41uh so 10 years ago i started skyrad uh which is a company that developed leak bots for the funding
07:48of this i then i have a a sideline running a low carbon footprint um electric transport system
07:56we do consulting for uh octopus energy so we're designing bits of renewable heating systems for
08:02them um i do technical due deal um on ai and renewable energy for various investment companies
08:09okay and and the business what's it called uh skyrad s-k-y-r-a-d what did you get that turnover
08:15last year uh 400k something like that 400k and you want investment in pepper yeah um i want to invest
08:25in skyrad okay yeah is that possible yeah because the reason why i say that is because i generally think
08:35that you are clearly a very very skilled in creator and inventor and it would be so much more interesting
08:43to be part of all of your projects right so not just this and there's an element of spreading the
08:48risk there as well risk factor uh probably what i'm doing right yeah yeah no exactly so you've asked
08:54for a hundred thousand pounds for five percent i would like to make you an offer over the all of
08:59the hundred thousand pounds yeah but i would like 12 and a half percent of skyrad oh mate right before
09:07i say yes i'm gonna open it to the floor sam i think you're great oh i think you're great
09:15um and you've been around i think you're great as well peter yeah obviously he thinks we're all
09:21lovely i'm not going to ask you who your favorite dragon is you can relax um i like you enough
09:27and your product enough to get competitive with mr jones oh uh but it would be on the basis exactly
09:35as peter said i think you kind of have to bring those two together understood yeah um i'm the specific
09:41value that i can add for you is um contacts with the local authorities okay um so i'm going to offer
09:48you all of the money but i want 10 percent of the business okay great offer much better offer
09:54i mean i i obviously want both of your not necessarily cash but both your input um i mean
10:01is the possibility you'd work together and we'd um well we're not what everyone else is doing first
10:06look um sam i i i like you a lot and i think um you know i can see what i can add to you i mean
10:16apart from my contacts in local authority yeah um i'm also involved in property development yeah
10:22more than that i think i could definitely help you reduce the price of that yeah so i'm going to
10:29also make you an offer okay so i'm going to offer you all of the money yeah and i'll match deborah's
10:37offer of 10 percent okay
10:40dr samuel um congratulations oh you've got a you've invented a brilliant product that i think
10:49can genuinely make a difference and can save some lives which not many people can say that
10:53um i don't think this is for me and i don't think i'm the dragon for you okay but i think you've
10:59got some fantastic offers so i want to wish you all the best in negotiations that i'm about to have
11:04a seat for good luck but i'm out wonderful thank you very much
11:08dr sam i think um it's so interesting because i think it's really really cool
11:17um i'm very interested in ai yeah i'm not as interested in this industry home appliances
11:26and delivered in this way right so i think i'm going to say that i'm out yeah however
11:31this could be massive and it could also very easily be that it could become nothing
11:39yeah so good luck and very well done for what you've created cool thanks dude
11:47all right it's all yours now big decision i mean i is there i would i'd really appreciate
11:53peter's input i'd really appreciate deborah's input i'd appreciate tuka's input um and what
11:59are the rules do i need to pick one of you could you work together no you could you could ask if
12:03anybody wants to share i mean would you would you share what who do you want to share i mean i'd
12:09take all of you if possible that's a bit broad bro i might beat you down slightly on equity but if
12:16you yeah i mean if three of you wanted to come in um can you i mean can it you can't all put 100k
12:23in each right it's got to be 100k no you all put 100 i mean five percent each at 100k
12:29no would you go 100k each at 80 percent i think you've introduced you've got to check whether or not
12:41we've oh we're interested in 100k each i think there's a big assumption on there okay how about
12:48this if the three of us was in yeah and we we put a third each four percent each i'd like that what
12:55would what would you be offering for them four percent a hundred thousand between the three of us
12:59no we already had five he offered at five didn't we so don't so i've just said if you want this is
13:05the messiest set of negotiations i've ever heard but i think you need to kind of give i mean if you
13:11don't if you do 100 at five do what at five sorry 100k each for five percent each no well i'm not even
13:17no you've already so good no at the moment i think if you wanted three three dragons that could be
13:23game-changing yeah i think if there's three three dragons in personally i think that the offer
13:29should be five percent each for 33 and a third so we would give 33 300 yeah and 30 each
13:40would you go i'll say five percent each for 50k
13:45so i'll give it 15 percent you each put in 50k 150k total
13:51i'd be happy with that yeah i'd be happy with that i'd go with that if okay the other dragons are
14:02happy yeah yep yep done okay fantastic uh thank you thank you very much
14:08brilliant thank you very nice to meet you great to meet you success for sam
14:14well done lovely thank you deb well done yeah great as three dragons seize the chance to invest
14:20not just in pippa but in the brains behind it thank you see you later backing the business as a
14:26whole means they've bagged front row seats for the next cutting-edge creations this inventive
14:32entrepreneur has in store that was uh that was excellent yeah really pleased with that
14:37for me goodness knows what else he's working on yeah that's i think that's the point that's the
14:42clever thing yeah having three dragons involved is going to be really really helpful the fact
14:47they're so enthusiastic about it was just it was just brilliant yeah
14:50hi i'm abby i'm born and bred in london and i'm liha i'm a country girl from cheltenham
15:09we met at university over 20 years ago and we always wanted to start a business together
15:14and that's how we bonded being in business with a friend it is challenging it is like a marriage
15:22like whenever we say partner and people always like oh is it your partner partner and we're like
15:25no well they think we're sisters yeah which we basically are at this point yeah
15:31i'm incredibly nervous i think i got all my nerves out because i had a little meltdown earlier
15:38yes you did i had a small cry i cry a lot oh my god we've got this we've got this i feel like ready
15:44just want to get it done now yeah i'm the same
15:46hi dragons hi dragons i'm liha okiniwa and i'm abby oyea pitton we're the founders of liha beauty
16:03we make superior body care products that are a blend of african botanicals
16:08and english aromatherapy us vogue described us as bottling africa's best kept beauty secret
16:15and our celebrity fans include lenny kravitz fk twigs and zarina akka's beyonce stylist
16:23we're asking for a hundred thousand pounds in exchange for ten percent of our business
16:28we started in our kitchens with just three thousand pounds of savings each and we're now
16:35stocked in sephora we've also been stocked in net-a-porter goop space nk among others
16:42and our cumulative revenue is nine hundred thousand pounds
16:45so liha and i met in 1998 at university liha and i would tinker with making wine products
16:52and really bonded over the fact that we love natural skincare and wanted products that were
16:57natural sustainable and felt and smelt luxurious we look young for our age and people would always
17:03ask what do you use and you'll say shea butter black soap and no one knew what it was so we are
17:09here to introduce the world to african beauty secrets and with that said we would love for you to try
17:15our products a body care and beauty range containing raw ingredients sourced from africa is the offering
17:25from abby oyapitan and liha okaniwa so this is our raw shea butter you say your university in 1998
17:33yeah yeah we're 44 i need some of this stuff the fresh-faced pair are seeking one hundred thousand
17:42pounds in return for a ten percent share in their business so what have we got here so you've got our
17:50edan oil which is called pressed coconut oil infusion tube rose and then you've got our colt candle
17:55and it's a fusion of different essential oils the entrepreneurs may put their youthful looks down to
18:03their beauty regime but will they still be glowing after a grilling from the dragons
18:09abby yeah abby leah so you've had some fantastic exposure i mean you've got some really big followers
18:19here yeah how did that happen we're really lucky yeah it's been quite organic really yeah i think
18:26um one of our first piece was in us vogue um and so from there we got a bit of attraction in america
18:34and just some celebrities loved it um so yeah that's amazing yeah and what about the actual because
18:40i'm guessing that the real your real usp apart from the fact it does look lovely thank you created a
18:47lovely brain but it's actually the ingredients so where are you getting your raw materials from
18:52so the world shows for my dad's town in ogun state in nigeria and then we work up a cooperative
18:58from up north in tamalee in um ghana oh right so genuinely they're from africa they're from africa
19:04from africa they're brought over here yeah um and and what's rather nice about that is you've got
19:09connection with it yeah yeah father's town so this has got real heart yeah thank you
19:14so abhi liha so when did you start at the business 2018 2018 and do you mind just running
19:23me through your kind of performance over the last few years yes so um in 2020 we did 152 000
19:32growth profits 26 000 and 114 loss yep 21 so 21 277 101 and a net profit or loss of 65 000
19:46a profit a loss loss a loss of 65 and in 2022 218 yep uh growth of 94
19:55yep a loss of 126 yep in uh 2023 109 and loss of 120 what was the gross what was the gross 49
20:10and how and how are you performing so far this year are you run
20:14yeah we're projecting to make 270 000 so are you projecting being profitable
20:18no not quite not quite so about 90 000 loss okay thank you
20:24abhi and liha um it's very clear that you've created some beautiful products
20:30um i put the cream on my hands have never been this soft oh thank you so much absolutely beautiful
20:36product um until you go through your numbers i know i go oh it's just oh please not don't tell me
20:43so what's really going on there the margin it's obviously a margin issue here yeah how do we how
20:51could we change that what needs to be done to get to get a really a much better margin yeah because
20:57your gross margin looks around 40 percent yeah it's about 45 percent yeah so as you all know so
21:03manufacturers really penalize you for not being able to order like order units at a massive scale
21:08so we're all doing about thousand to two thousand units at the moment so when we start doing
21:13hundred thousand units we'll all benefit from those economies of scale the retailers as well
21:18take a big chunk of your margin um and that's why we really want to pivot to like a d2c brand
21:24yeah and that's it feels like at the moment your margin's not there for retail at all
21:28yeah i think well this is a lesson we've learned
21:31abby and lia yeah hi so what was your challenges in retail
21:35just the marketing they expect you to spend money on marketing oh yeah yeah and so we just
21:42didn't have it we just didn't have the money you know the funny thing today is um you don't have
21:47to spend a lot of money you need content yeah yeah content content is king you'll put on tiktok
21:53steam is much more better than that than me yeah yeah yeah we've heard he's a marketing genius yeah
21:59yeah and now finish please stroke your ego yeah um but yeah those you know we're we're not experts at
22:07that we know how to make beautiful amazing uh efficacious products um and that's why we've had
22:12like some cult followings but we haven't been able to really kind of push that forward i would say
22:19what we would love to do with the investment is to really get some expertise on the digital ads
22:24and the targeting yeah and also just like getting you know more marketing whether it is the digital
22:28marketing or traditional marketing okay uh it's it's really really difficult it's really difficult
22:34because um it kind of sounds like you're trying to employ me oh really yeah because you're saying
22:42we need help with the marketing and we need to and that's slightly different from being an investor
22:47it sounds like i'm i'm being offered a job as your cmo or your market oh no no in this particular
22:53case it's not just the 100k cash it's also quite a lot of support on both improving the margin but also
23:01finding innovation in the marketing strategy yeah okay i get you have you got have you got a
23:08a killer strategy or something that you're thinking about that will fundamentally change the
23:13outlook of this business because it can't really go on as it's been in the past
23:16let me answer that one okay so the shea butter as peter said that's the softest his hands have ever
23:26been yeah but his hands are this guy he's got some of the roughest hands ever well but now they're soft
23:33you see that's what we're doing making people glow i just think it only takes a couple of things you
23:38know to go viral and you know and we are we just need that little tipping bit we just need to get it
23:44really out there
23:48abby and liha um this is really really challenging and very difficult
23:53um the product is fantastic there's no doubt about it the ongoing losses and the losses that you've
23:59lost half a million pounds to date yeah you are going to lose another 90 to 100 000 this current year
24:05forecasted when and that's why you need this 100 000 so the minute an investment goes in it's just
24:10going to dissipate like an alka-seltzer in a swimming pool so for that reason sadly i'm going to say that
24:16i'm out thank you guys um i think you guys are great you know but i think showing the losses the way
24:27you're going you're not going to attract a lot of investment no i see that unfortunately yeah
24:31yeah today it's not investable for me and i'm out okay no that's fine
24:40i believe yes um i really want to invest but there's a but no it's fine
24:49i don't want to say it but seriously the numbers are really not good and actually my worry is
24:56that a hundred thousand pound investment isn't even going to do it for you so um oh i love what
25:02you're doing but i'm afraid as an investment it's just not working for me so thank you for
25:07bringing in it's beautiful thank you i'm out
25:12abby and liha yeah hi um the product seems lovely thank you but it's not the product we're
25:19investing in it's the business and the entrepreneurs and the numbers tell a story yeah yeah and they
25:25don't tell a great story yeah yeah we did we know so i'm really sorry i'm going to take this home and
25:30give this a call and hopefully be a customer who might be able to give you a raving review okay well
25:36it just doesn't feel like a business investment today so we wish you all the best and save it out loud
25:40um yeah i think i think you guys are both i think you're you're great i think you've got so much
25:52unbelievable potential thank you but you know you've said to me that you're kind of waiting for this
25:56takeoff moment this viral moment and as i look at this product i just can't see how that happens
26:02because i think for for it to go viral you really need some kind of innovation somewhere
26:10because that's where that's where the virality comes from because what happens is people go
26:14oh my god have you seen this i'm going to share it with my friend i'm going to put up my story
26:17i'm going to put it in the whatsapp chat and i when i look at this like what is that story
26:21can you tell me what the story is here that might go go viral it's like anything the bum
26:26cream goes by or somebody using the bum bum cream what does the bum bum cream do it's
26:31moisturizing cream that goes on your bum okay so there's there's a storyline there yeah i think the
26:37thing is when you have um it only takes somebody to pick up an oil whatever you want to talk call
26:44it and somebody loves it and they do a story about it goes well and people pick it up and you only need
26:49to get six numbers right to win the lottery yeah you know but it happens but it happens
26:56would you bet a hundred thousand pounds on winning the lottery next week
26:59potentially not because i don't have a hundred thousand yeah but even i wouldn't either because
27:03the odds are terrible and it's the same thing in that case where you're betting on total chance
27:07and as an investor and you want to bet on predictability i can't bet on the lottery
27:13okay yeah yeah yeah and i would bet on you i think i would use this but when it comes to a business
27:18proposition with the margins and the the lack of a breakthrough story it's not one for me so i'm
27:25going to say that i'm out but i wish you the very best and well thank you so much thank you thank
27:30you bye good luck disappointment for abby and liha as poor profits laid bare the flaws in their beauty
27:40business and they leave without a deal was it terrible and it wasn't so bad they all really liked it
27:47it was hand still nice and soft peter softer the baby's bottom look i think the drag has missed an
27:55opportunity and i think we're going to be the heritage brand of the future so we're not going to give
28:00up we're going to keep going quite positive they love the products they love us and we just have to
28:05yeah keep going and learn from our mistakes my name is bethan hickson and i live in southeast london
28:29and i'm alice schools webby and i also live in southeast london living around the corner from each
28:34other is quite useful uh when running a startup hair looks good we've become like incredibly close
28:42friends throughout the process yeah yeah we have our final meeting often on the bus home together
28:50investment today would would mean a huge amount and it's not it's not just about the money we're
28:55really looking for expertise and insights from these dragons and it would transform the business
29:01so yeah so much riding on it
29:13hi dragons my name is bethan and i am the founder of mother root and i'm alice the coo and we are here
29:20today to ask for 60 000 pounds in return for two percent of the business it's official life is busier than
29:29ever and sharing a moment with friends over a good drink can feel like a special moment of balance
29:35but drinking alcohol just isn't working for you like it used to but you still want to find a way
29:39to switch off and unwind the problem is finding a drink that doesn't feel like a substitute a strong
29:46drink just minus the alcohol because that should feel like a treat too i created mother root when i was
29:52pregnant and chasing around after a toddler having spent my career in the wine and spirits trade
29:58delicious drinks that packed a punch was something i really missed for the 30 million uk adults now
30:04actively moderating their alcohol intake mother root is the fiery ginger flavored non-alcoholic aperitif
30:11that has acquired 23 000 new customers in the last six months alone we've seen incredible scaling
30:19demand and this year became amazon's number one non-alcoholic bestseller in the uk we've grown
30:25over 400 year on year and are on track to reach 2.2 million pounds of turnover this year would you
30:32like to try another route absolutely a non-alcoholic ginger flavored aperitif is the serving from bethan
30:42higson and alice goldsworthy thank you very much the duo are hoping for an investment of 60 000
30:50pounds in return for a two percent share of their business excuse me excuse me that's really good
30:58the marmalade one oh i'm glad you like it stealing my drinks thank you so much now i'm going to try this
31:07roar yeah it's strong a little goes a long way a neat shot leaves stephen bartlett a little shaken
31:18but will his interest in the business have been stirred alice bethan um hi i completely get it
31:28because i i quit drinking alcohol so every time i go to a restaurant every time i go out yeah the the
31:34battle with a waiter to figure out if they have kombucha or if they can do some kind of other
31:39drink so i completely get it um how old is this business the first full year of trading was 2019
31:46so it's so could you run me through the financial performance of the business in terms of the the
31:51last sort of couple of years just so i can see the growth profile of the business yeah so we're
31:56currently we're on track to do 2.2 million this year and a loss of 114 000 and in 2022 we did a
32:07turnover of 247 000 and a net of minus 408 000 and minus 408 408 408 408 408 000 loss loss loss then in
32:202023 we did a turnover of 525 000 and a loss of 249 000 and we are forecasting profitability
32:35this time next year can i ask how are you funding the losses at the moment so we have raised a total
32:41now so this we're currently raising so taking that also into account we've raised a total of 1.1 million
32:48so far sorry just to be clear there so you've raised 1.1 million so far or you're or this round
32:54as well as part of that one more one no total today is 1.1 um of the current uh round we have raised at
33:01600 000. and what valuation have you raised that up that was an 8 million pre-money valuation so yeah
33:11bethyn alice hi so talk talk me through the 600 000 that you've raised so far at the
33:188 million valuation yeah where is that come from um that has come from existing shareholders
33:24reinvesting but also some industry experts coming in angels um who have expertise within the drink
33:31space so one is xdiagio um for example so there's a lot of belief behind your brand and a lot of people
33:37in the industry have followed you i think it's a really exciting space within the drinks industry
33:42it's the fastest growing category within the adult beverage sector and alcohol is kind of stagnating um
33:47and it's not just a trend it is a complete shift of consumer behavior so there's just that momentum
33:54that's building so assuming i invested it when do i get a return well we believe that within four years
34:03you would be getting back at least 10 times your investment um we know that the big multinational
34:11alcohol companies are particularly interested in this space about 90 of the acquisitions happen by the
34:17big 12 multinational companies and just this year a british spirits brand was acquired for 12 times their
34:25net sales and they were loss making still at that point so and what what was that brand uh lakes
34:33distillery oh they're up near me yeah yeah another guy who owned that yeah well good business good
34:39business yeah he's done well so beth and alice hi hi um so um i don't drink alcohol except about once
34:49a year when peter makes me and i cannot tell you you have described me you know every time i go to
34:57water myself a drink i'm like oh do you know what i'll just have water yeah so i really love this and
35:02i love the taste of this i mean i actually drink a lot of kombucha slightly different this has got more
35:08flex you're doing it again excuse me one second take your eye off her for 30 seconds um so let's explore
35:16what's your next biggest opportunity yeah so we're 95 d2c currently but we know that retail is really
35:28lacking interesting products out there often they're kind of imitations of the um leading spirit so kind
35:35of naught percent line extensions from the big brands like tankery gordons so for us the next big move
35:41is going chipping away more into independent retail and then finally into grocery and then beyond that
35:49into export okay and um this is i mean what do you call it a switchel a switchel which is rather
35:58charming um are there other switchels out there on the supermarket shelves at the moment no no this is
36:06very much a white space that we're operating in right okay it's a good sign when it goes quiet yes it's
36:23a good sign
36:26bethen how much of the business do you still own after this current at this point in the current
36:31raise i own seventy percent of the business because i'm conscious of the fact that you are already
36:37offering in the den at a much lower rate than what you are raising at currently yeah we spoke to them
36:45ahead and they recognize that this could be a really a big step change for the business in terms of
36:53getting a dragon on board for where we want to go next it leaves a kind of done well i'll tell you
36:59why the reason for my silence i think i think it's fantastic and i think you have spotted um a real
37:05opportunity and you fulfilled it in a in a very lovely way i mean it is a lovely product um i think
37:13without your other investors and ignoring the valuation that they came came in at what i'm grappling
37:19with is i'd like to make you an offer but it's got to be an offer that is feasible so you've got your
37:25investors over here who have invested at eight million which if you'd just given me these numbers
37:30and presented in the den i would i would think nowhere near nowhere near eight million so i'm
37:37trying to bridge the gap between i'd love to get involved in this business but not at the two percent
37:46right so i am going to make you an offer and i'm going to offer you all of the money
37:50about about four percent of the business thank you deborah thank you you know deborah
37:59deborah perfectly articulated everything that i was struggling to get out of i've sat here a long
38:06time thinking i thought your valuation was high based on where your numbers are but you've got these
38:11other investors sitting here at a different valuation and what i'd actually written down was
38:16i was prepared to offer the money you were asking for five percent knowing that i'd probably have
38:21to negotiate to somewhere around the three and a half to four percent but i wouldn't feel comfortable
38:25going any lower than that okay that is like the word is genuinely the worst negotiation do you know
38:33i'm offering you five percent but i'm willing to go to three i never said three i said my lowest level
38:39negotiating that i would drop two would be three and a half right now not a half okay that's me trying to
38:44negotiate thank you thank you she looks like someone that would do it for three alice bethan um i think
38:52you look i think you've done really really well i think this business will work no question but
38:58what's on offer here is just not interesting enough i'm going to end up with less than one percent of
39:04this enterprise in the next few years so no i'm sorry but for me it's not there so i'm going to say that
39:09i'm out thank you alice bethan um i love it i love you two i've been looking for it i've been looking
39:21for you and here you are um i own two performance marketing companies one called metastat one called
39:27flight performance and metastat is particularly good with this um type of business at this size
39:32so they've taken one dragon's den investment i made two years ago in the beverage space
39:36which by the way we got into waitrose last week had all the buyers at my house
39:40but also i've got some friends who run a lot of the very interesting beverage companies in this
39:44country like huel and grenade and the brew dogs of the world who i think could really give you a
39:49roadmap how to scale a dc business in this space profitably so i'm gonna make you an offer i'm gonna
39:55offer you all of the money and i'm gonna ask for five percent of business oh thank you i say that
40:01because daylight robbery oh as he was saying doesn't get out of bed for one percent office
40:06space in a minute just wait he's that his name dropped so many names now yeah because i'm name
40:13dropping nobody he doesn't know anybody i've got 50 years experience more than you'll ever have so
40:19let's not even 50 years old 50 years experience in business you've got five years yeah 50 years wow
40:24so so let's get my bigger perspective i've got more experience on one little finger than you've got
40:30a lot of 50 years let's focus on the entrepreneurs no i'm just saying easily triggered guys you know
40:35something i uh uh i think you've got some great offers but i'm not gonna do for two percent that's
40:43the problem you've got much more hungry people on my left here make an offer then if you don't like two
40:48over there a little grasshopper over there a little smirky over there dragons is anyway kittens or
41:03dragons i'll tell you what i'll do i'll let them make the offer so i'm not going to invest today
41:08thank you so for that reason i'm out thank you thank you so much do you want to go think about it
41:15cool okay have a chat thanks oh my gosh alice and bethen have three competing bids to consider
41:24this outcome steven bartlett wants five percent what's your gut saying i don't know as does sarah
41:34davies but she's shown a willingness to drop to three and a half if pressed
41:39whilst deborah meaden is offering a straight four percent i'd love to have them all because
41:46actually they're my top three favorites but i don't know how that works however all the offers are over
41:52the two percent that was originally on the table i think we go at one will the entrepreneur's existing
42:00share structure leave any room for negotiations you think we would have prepared for that kind
42:10of situation but uh we didn't so that being said based on the office that are on the table and the
42:17expertise given that we are dc we would
42:19love to ask whether you stephen would consider coming down to four percent for all of the money
42:30i've got a counter offer for you as a show of my willingness to get a deal done
42:36i'll increase the cash component to 80k for five percent
42:40if that makes it easier for you because that helps the valuation a little bit
42:43if you were to come to 90 000 pounds for five percent then you have a deal
42:58done oh thank you very much success for the drinks duo
43:06thanks very much as they secure a cocktail of cash and clout from a dragon who can launch their
43:14business into the stratosphere you're so good you're so good oh my god oh my god completely overwhelmed
43:28but amazing yeah so happy happy we got stephen definitely do you know what you you made more
43:35promises there than any political party leading up to an election you bottled it you'll be working for them next
43:58hi i'm phil and i'm from bournemouth
44:00anyone who knows me knows i am a bit of a serial inventor every week i'm coming up with another
44:07idea for some sort of business or product what does it say it is it says it's shoe deodorizing
44:15if this is a way to stop your boots being smelly i just need all of those in my life right now because
44:20my kids feet stink feeling a little bit nervous today but i'm sure once i get going the nerves will disappear
44:28my little boys are definitely my biggest motivators i want to try and make the brand of success as
44:35quickly as possible so i can prioritize them instead of business let's do this
44:40hi there i'm phil and i'm co-founder uh
44:58hi there i'm phil co-founder of boot bananas and i'm here today seeking a 200 000 pound investment
45:06in exchange for eight percent equity in our unique sustainable shoe care accessories brand boot bananas
45:12was founded in 2012 by my wife alex and myself with the creation of our flagship product boot bananas
45:19original shoe deodorizers now this really was an invention of necessity you see at the time i started
45:27working as a rock climbing instructor my dream job that unfortunately came with a nightmare of a smell
45:33the stench from one particularly pungent pair of my rock climbing shoes was starting to take over our
45:38flat so we decided to fight the funk ourselves i perfected a blend of salts minerals and plant
45:45extracts that worked miracles and removed the smell and alex came up with a brilliant banana design idea
45:52and in the first year we sold almost 4 000 pairs to rock climbing gyms up and down the country
45:57and over the years i have sold to retailers such as go outdoors cotswolds ellis brighams as well as
46:06of course developing sales uh direct consumer and marketplaces last year i turned over 1.37 million
46:13with a 220 000 pound net profit and um
46:18and i believe we could become a major market disruptor in the four billion dollar shoe care
46:26accessories market
46:31a banana shaped deodorizer is the solution to smelly footwear from phil osband hello sir
46:38there's one of our flagship products there for you i knew i would drop those
46:41phil is seeking 200 000 pounds in return for eight percent of his business they're not edible
46:49they're not real no no please do not even first to see if the dragons are bananas about phil's product
46:56is deborah meaden
47:00phil thank you very much well done you got through it the good news is this is about as clear it's as
47:06obvious i love this kind of product thanks food banana shoe deodorizer yes the flagship product
47:11you've got there is for extreme odors and helps with a bit of sweat can i put this in the washing
47:17machine no so this has to last me six to 12 months on average now it does depend how bad the shoes are
47:26how sweaty they get so in an extreme case a shoe that absolutely stinks if i put this in like peter
47:31jones shoe how long will that last me 12 months and six months in yours to be honest it's the shoes
47:38not the person so it's fine what are your sales channels by percentage uh it's roughly 60 retail
47:4840 direct to consumer how much have you spent on online marketing very minimum like how much
47:54700 pounds a month i've done one facebook post which is a photo of the product and some football boots
48:01and we've targeted that facebook ads to football and we've got 1300 comments on that post
48:08and the sales that that post drove to your website presumably
48:14i mean i know it's driven sales 100 it's definitely driven sales um i don't have that data to hand
48:23phil you've been going for 12 years long time it is yes
48:31and after 12 years you've turned over 1.37 million
48:36now in my world that would not be a great achievement no however you made a profit which
48:45says to me that it's a good business matured business i've made all the mistakes already so
48:52you're coming in at the perfect time
48:56and a stupid valuation um 12 times earnings which which is oh i i valued on turnover yeah but if
49:05every company valued on turnover yeah the world would be a very rich place yeah i know yeah so you've
49:12proven you can make a profit yes right so what will the turnover be next year
49:20sorry the next year is two to three million so how are you going to do that um
49:26sorry i'm on track to doing that already my as i mentioned that ad post i know it's not huge but
49:32the product literally sells itself those conversations are happening in real life okay in the football
49:37community around the five-a-side football pitch after school at the clubs and every time you take
49:43the product and you seed it you only have to take it into a few places in that market and it starts to
49:49spread from there it literally sells itself have you seen those bananas that go in your shoes phil
49:54phil you've got there's a lot there's a lot going on here yeah i can't you can't detract away from
50:02the the valuation of this business is is basically it is basically your business it's complete bananas
50:09no no so like last year the profit wasn't as high as maybe it could have been no but over the last 10
50:13years how much money have you made selling this product net um there's not not a net profit there's
50:20been a so that's why i go back to i don't know how you can value oh wait wait wait i can work that 40 30
50:27oh i've got this 40 30 uh 70 90 120 around 130 000 pounds of losses to 320 000 pounds of profit
50:40uh can someone do the maths i'm not brilliant 200 000 there we go yeah um it's not coming across
50:47great i i know i know it's i i would say this is not the potential i'm not selling is in the past
50:53the potential i'm selling is in the future but give me a vision of that okay um genuinely i think
50:58we could be turning over 100 million i think 30 million i could probably do on my own uh i think
51:0550 million with investment in assistance is uh is very very rich so you could take this to 30 million
51:11in sales i reckon i could myself yes
51:16phil after 12 years you've done a million but how on earth are you going to get this to 100 million
51:24i'm just trying in my head thinking out 100 million you seed it into the communities and the
51:30sales happen in the locker room right golf football rugby ice hockey but the nhl phil phil
51:38phil shoe shop i've not sold you're right you're right however i think you'll struggle with this
51:44you'll get to a point two three four million and you'll stagnate in my view and for that reason i'm out
51:51phil phil sorry the product i think is brilliant thank you but it's not the product we invest in
52:02it's the entrepreneur yes yeah and what i'm really struggling with is most of the communication
52:09has been this way coming yeah and it it needs to go this way i am listening i promise
52:14i sit here thinking i just i couldn't enjoy being on that journey with you as great as the product is
52:21so i'm really sorry phil i can't invest today and i'm out answer
52:30uh on the one hand well done i i i think you clearly you've got a great business
52:36i'm not convinced you need investment i think you aren't i mean you just said you think you can get
52:40yourself to 30 million pound without an investor that will be a literal mountain to climb yeah and
52:46i think i'd have a lot more fun doing it with you guys and doing it a lot faster and a lot bigger okay
52:51i don't think you would have a lot of fun doing with me um no um you need to be quiet just for a
52:58second um so lovely product thank you you are going to make money out of this you could make a lot more
53:07money if you had an investor on board yes but it i'm afraid this ain't gonna work um have you seen
53:16our home compostable product only kind of compostable insert on the market you can't just get investment
53:20by not allowing any of the dragons to say i'm out sorry that isn't going to work okay so i'm afraid
53:25phil i won't be investing oh i'm out phil it's really interesting because you know once in a while
53:35a business walks into the den where i can so clearly see the opportunity but also i can see
53:44the journey from where that business is now to where they can be strategically and what you
53:50described here is you have what i call an aha business where if you exhibit the value proposition
53:57of this product within five or ten seconds someone goes aha i need that but you've not been able to
54:03create that aha moment because you're terrible at marketing i've got a lot of ideas but i'm very
54:08bad at bringing them together like let me just let me just riff sorry i'm gonna because i really
54:12want to make sure i land the point here you have an aha business which means that if you can demonstrate
54:17this product within five ten seconds people go oh my god i need that and the the battleground to do
54:23that in my opinion is social media yes if you're able to convert that 10 second aha to social media
54:32at scale then your business will go from the 1.3 to the 100 million over the next five six seven years
54:39and it will sell itself it's a lot of work yeah it's a lot of work um but i believe
54:48so i'm gonna make you an offer i'm gonna offer you all of the money
55:02for 33 percent of the business and i assume a ton of responsibility understood
55:09brilliant uh it's a lovely offer thank you very much thank you
55:18what do you specifically want for me honestly um i want to spend less time doing the things i'm not
55:32very good at yeah micromanaging the business so i have more time for my family
55:37how big is your family
55:45sorry uh two two little boys my wife alex and our dog
55:58what do you want to do for them i'd be there for them it's like it's like they grow up
56:07i'm sorry it's okay
56:15i'm sure they'll be very proud of you without a doubt
56:25and phil i'd like to help them be proud too
56:28and i'd like to help you because i think i can help you focus i can help you scale it
56:33and i'm going to make you an offer and it's going to mirror steven's offer because i think that's
56:40really fair so i'm going to offer you all of the money 200 000 pounds yeah for a third of the business
56:51thank you thank you
56:55um the obvious question i've got is youtube
56:58both brilliant things at the table would you consider a share of the deal
57:07i would 100 without a doubt i think you get the benefit of two very different skill sets that could
57:13make this into some goliath business i agree i agree would you be happy to do that 16 each
57:21yeah yeah yeah would be 16 each for 100 000 pounds each yes yes you've got it here
57:36elation for phil as he gets to experience the sweet smell of success
57:42he leaves the den with 200 000 pounds in his company coffers
57:46and two dragons in his boardroom i'm so delighted and relieved to have got investment from the
57:52dragons i'm very happy to see that the dragons could see the real potential in the brand despite
57:58some of my own personal pitfalls it is the next biggest thing and we'll see we'll see too because
58:05i'll get convinced we'll have we'll have big bananas and small bananas all of the bananas
58:09small bananas for your feet and big ones for mine
58:22next time a special guest returns
58:26barlett come on give him a chance don't talk yourself out of it um no behave what she doesn't uh
58:31bite deborah there how are you going to get out of this mess my cool my cool
58:35you all right
58:49you all right
58:52you
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