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Short filmTranscript
00:00I've been doing this for 15 years and I'm tired of it. I'm just tired of the, just, just feels
00:18like it's more than music now at this point. And just most days I'm like, okay, but then sometimes
00:24I'm just like, it just gets loud sometimes. Her reaction to it, you know, really shows that
00:34the message came through loud and clear for her and it was extremely distressing. She was the
00:39internet's villain and everyone decided to, you know, gang up on that. Everyone was posting
00:44hashtag Taylor Swift is over party. Hashtag Taylor Swift is canceled. When there's this false narrative
00:51that everyone believes, how do you respond to that? She goes absolutely radio silent. No
01:01one hears from her. No one sees her out in public, which is the antithesis of the Taylor that we
01:07had come to know. Take a look at this photo. See, there's speculation that she may be in
01:13that suitcase. Okay. I just don't get it. We were used to having access to her. She was
01:21an ever present person in our lives. She knows at that point that the world is kind of getting sick
01:30of her, that they've reached saturation point with Taylor Swift. And she makes an executive
01:35decision to kind of withdraw and kind of cut off access in a way that, you know, wasn't very common
01:41for Taylor Swift. Thank you. Thank y'all very much.
01:56Watching Leanne Rhymes, we see that she has a very unique connection with her fans. When she is
02:12on stage, you know, there's just kind of that unspoken bond. For Taylor, Leanne Rhymes is the
02:18perfect role model to really make connections with fans. When Taylor was really young, she went to a
02:24Leanne Rhymes concert. She's at the very front row. She looked down and I was like, Leanne, did you get
02:30my letters? And she goes, I sure did, Taylor. And that was, that was the moment where literally it
02:35all just clicked for me that if I could ever make one little kid feel that way or one person feel the
02:41way she made me feel, then it would all be worth it. You could see her eyes glow talking about it.
02:47That moment, I think, solidified for Taylor how important it is to connect with your fans and
02:54how there is no wall if you don't want there to be. I think that was a really defining moment for
03:01Taylor. Going to her concert and being seen by Leanne and being respected and understood and
03:07given the time of day, I think planted that seed of nurturing a fandom and making every single
03:16person that she comes across feel that exact same way. MySpace is an awesome new thing. It's an
03:23online website where people can really connect with artists. Typically, I get about 600 emails a day.
03:32I read all the guest book entries. I want to be a part of these people's lives. I think it's
03:37important to keep that personal contact. That's, that's the most fun thing for me is to hear what
03:41people think and all the different stories of people the first time they heard the song and how
03:46it affected them. I just love all that. Watching that, you can see it was really important to her
03:51to connect with people. The stories that people tell, like she mentioned, she does take those to heart.
03:58She had already been building her bond with her fans and building her brand online, so she knew
04:07how to do stuff that the rest of the business had not figured out yet. I don't know of any Nashville
04:17artist that took my space as seriously as Taylor took my space.
04:22Think about an album. You can make it a personal and a good, possible hand and put everything you have
04:33into it. And think about it every day and every night for the entire process of making it. And if
04:38you put it out there with badges, then you can't control that. The fans are the only reason I haven't
04:44accepted it all. That's why I'm always making them. When I saw that she was hand delivering Christmas
04:52presents to fans, it didn't surprise me. These weren't generic gifts. She took the time to go on
05:01their social media profiles and find out what they were into, what they were interested in. She has
05:08always been a lover of people. The people have never let her down. So why would you change? Why would
05:16you stop? She took her time and she stepped out of the limelight a little. She had to turn off her
05:27comments, which eventually led to her deleting her entire Instagram because it was just flooded with
05:31bullying, harassment, snakes. She then returns not with the kind of typical social media presence
05:40that her fans are used to. I think the whole world stood still when that first snake came to her
05:54Instagram. And we all knew something was coming, but we couldn't figure out what it was. And collectively
06:01as a fandom, I think we all held our breath.
06:14I absolutely loved the force with which Taylor came back. She took her narrative, she rewrote it,
06:22took that motif of a snake that was used so violently against her and made it into an entire era.
06:31Like, wow. It's gonna go down in history as one of the biggest like moments in pop culture because to
06:38be silent, unseen for years and then drop that music video.
06:43I don't like your little games. Don't like your tilted stage. The role you made me play.
07:00She is visually showing us the place where the internet left her after this incident in the ground.
07:10And here she is a zombie rising out of the ground saying, no, I don't like your games.
07:18The idea of look what you made me do. She's telling all the haters and everyone who's been
07:31critiquing her, you know, you made me change this. This is your fault. She is not, you know,
07:36playing the victim. She is not playing the wallflower. She is saying, you all were so
07:40mean and nasty to me. This is how I'm reacting. You know, she's reclaiming her narrative. She's
07:45reclaiming her reputation.
07:48I'm sorry. The old Taylor can't come to the phone right now.
07:53Why? Oh.
07:56Because she's dead.
07:57The world was changed when Taylor said, I'm sorry, Taylor can't come to the phone right now.
08:03So iconic.
08:04What's with that bitch?
08:05Don't call me that.
08:07Y'all.
08:07Oh, stop acting like you're all nice. You are so fake.
08:12Well, there she goes playing the victim again.
08:16So by the end, basically, she's also sort of, you know, making fun of herself. She has all of
08:20her old selves and she's basically saying, you know, you're so pathetic. You know, before anyone
08:26else can criticize her, she's criticizing herself, which was a really bold move.
08:30I would very much like to be excluded from this narrative.
08:36Well, you know what? If that's how you're going to think of it, I'm going to get there
08:38first. I'm going to be the one that's mocking myself before you can mock me.
08:44Well, everything reaches saturation, doesn't it? I mean, a brand, chocolates, coffee, whatever
08:49we consume. So a clever brand is constantly replenishing or reinventing itself. And it's
08:56the same with an artist because otherwise you get stuck with the same audience. So
09:00in a way, you're heading towards a cliff. It can be like falling off a cliff edge. It
09:06can happen overnight.
09:07Over the years, I've worked with some of the greatest names in entertainment, including
09:12Led Settling, The Rolling Stones, David Bowie for 40 years, Prince, Michael Jackson, Amy Winehouse,
09:19Spice Girls, Sex Pistols. I mean, a lot.
09:22You've got to be brave and you've got to take the risk and keep rewriting the story because
09:30fans grow up and fans move on to other things. So you want to be reinventing yourself. It's
09:36a constant. You need that momentum, perpetual momentum. Taylor's really fantastic the way
09:41she does that.
09:44There was a bit of a bait and switch that happened with this album when we put out Look What You
09:47Made Me Do. And we're like, guys, this album's going to be one thing. And when the album came
09:52out, it's legitimately an album about finding love throughout all the noise. If you can find
09:58something real in spite of a bad reputation, then isn't that what matters the most to you?
10:05I think when you watch this footage of Taylor, she's very much in this big sister mold where
10:11she's kind of relatable and protective and strong. And I think that's what people really
10:16appreciate her for.
10:18Reputation is kind of a weird album for me because it's such a shift stylistically. It
10:25was her first album about being in a deep, long-term relationship. It was about the start
10:33of her relationship with Joe Allen, where before she could write a song about somebody that she
10:44had broken up with and not worry about their reaction. Now she's writing a song about the
10:52most intimate moments of her life because that's what she's always written about. The person that
10:57she's writing about is still going to want to be around her at the end of the day.
11:03She meets this person and it's like, oh, you're meeting me at the worst, lowest place that I've
11:10been in public perception. And you still like me? Oh, that must mean you really like me.
11:15They sing for the best. My reputation's never been worse. So you must like me for me.
11:22It's a calm love. It's a safe love. It's a love despite the world hating me. I don't have to
11:42listen to all of you because I have this. And this is, you know, bringing me so much love and joy.
11:47Here comes daddy with the baby home from the hospital and her nanny.
12:02They said it would never happen.
12:05I watched that video so many different times. Her parents arriving home with Taylor right around
12:12Christmastime. It kind of reminded me of the imagination and fairy tale and the happily ever
12:19after. I think that's something that was instilled in her from her parents and her family.
12:26I was always into all the stories and fairy tales and things like that when I was little. And,
12:32you know, every single night before I would have been out of my house to tell me a story. And
12:36I wouldn't settle for anything I'd heard before. But they didn't mean enough stories.
12:41And then at the end of the day, soon with this collapse of a child, like, I can't anymore.
12:47Above anything else, she romanticizes life in the best way. I read at one point that she would
12:53always fast forward through the villain part of her fairy tales because she just, you know,
12:59the happy spots and the happy parts. And I think that really stems from the fairy tales that she grew up on.
13:06When I had a favorite song when I was growing up, I would always wonder who it was written about.
13:14Also, when people wrote songs with people's names in them, that kind of became a story with a character.
13:19And identify the character, then it became a fairy tale. And then it became a story. And it's real.
13:26And in the real world, the bad guy can be charming and endearing, funny. You can't tell until it all hits you.
13:36And that's what I write songs about a lot. The differences between fairy tales and reality, which are so many.
13:43When we're little, we're taught that to see that bad guy, it's very obvious. But in real life, it's not that way at all.
13:50You've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs.
14:05Donald Trump can be heard making some extremely crude comments about himself and women.
14:10I have tremendous respect for women.
14:12Have you ever done those things?
14:13And women have respect for me. And I will tell you, no, I have not.
14:16Women will be silent no more.
14:21Stories flooded social media and painted a picture of just how many people endorse sexual abuse and harassment every day.
14:33In Denver today, Taylor Swift testified that a former radio host groped her while they were posing for a photo.
14:40He lost his job and sued the pop star. She countersued.
14:45They got to hear from Taylor Swift.
14:47They knew that within a couple hours of this happening, she had told her mother.
14:53She was very adamant about what happened.
14:55She was appropriately angry.
14:57In 2017, which is the same year the allegations against Harvey Weinstein are exposed for the first time in the press,
15:04Taylor Swift takes an ex-radio DJ called David Mueller to court.
15:08And she alleges that in 2013, he put his hand up her skirt and sexually assaulted her during a photo meet and greet.
15:16He sues her for defamation and she countersues him for sexual assault.
15:20And the whole thing plays out in court in public.
15:22One of the questions she's asked is, there's a photo of you allegedly being assaulted by this man.
15:28Why isn't the front of your skirt wrinkled?
15:32And then she goes, because my ass is not on the front of my skirt.
15:35The jury sided with the pop star.
15:37She had been assaulted and in keeping with her wishes, Mr. Mueller was ordered to pay a dollar in damages.
15:43It gives courage and inspiration to all people, not just women, but to all people, to have the courage to draw lines.
15:53The interesting thing about the Me Too court case is I get the sense that maybe part of her just snapped and said,
15:59you know what, actually, I'm not going to stand for this anymore.
16:03Time magazine puts her on the cover with other whistleblowers, including Ashley Judd, who is one of Harvey Weinstein's first victims.
16:10Here is a moment where she just wants to make a point that women won't stand for this kind of treatment.
16:16This day a year ago was the day that the jury decided in my favor and said that they believed me.
16:29I just wanted to say I'm sorry to anyone who ever wasn't believed because I don't know what term my life would have taken
16:36if somebody, if people didn't believe me when I said that something had happened to me.
16:42And so I guess I just wanted to say that we have so, so, so much further to go.
16:49And I'm so grateful to you guys for being there for me during what was a really, really horrible part of my life.
16:55It marks a little bit of a turning point in how open she was willing to be about politics and the stance that she took on issues.
17:07Because following this, she releases a track called You Need to Calm Down, which is about supporting LGBTQ rights as an ally.
17:14The music video was incredibly glossy, filled with LGBTQ plus celebs and was widely seen to be centering Taylor rather than queer people.
17:37People wanted someone to say something serious and meaningful and deep and thoughtful.
17:42And they didn't think that a kind of glossy pop song with a colorful music video cut the mustard, basically.
17:49I think it shows up this idea that Taylor can't win, even when her intentions are good.
17:54Around this time that Taylor starts being a bit more of a political animal, there is a kind of bigger question in the room, right?
18:11With Donald Trump in the White House and America being more divided than ever before,
18:15is Taylor going to talk about Democrat versus Republican?
18:24So Taylor coming up through country and, you know, doing things like performing the national anthem at sports games really cemented her into this lane of being like a perfect kind of all-American domestic goddess.
18:50There are people who are critical and younger people, too, that she's not political enough, that she's too late to the party with her politics, that, you know, she's too white.
19:01Like, they just don't want to give time to a blonde white woman.
19:06Would I make a good politician? I don't know. I mean, I'm an 18-year-old girl.
19:10It's like, I'm not going to sit here and go into my political views because that's not what I chose to do.
19:17I chose to do music. But honestly, it's just really good to see women progress.
19:22That's a canned statement. It's tough because you're never going to win an argument when it comes to religion or politics. Period.
19:29And because of things that Taylor can't control, the fact that she's, you know, young, she's blonde, she's wealthy, she's white, she's American, you know, Taylor has always walked that tightrope.
19:40If she doesn't speak about politics, she's seen as pandering to the right. If she does speak about politics, she's seen as being a performative ally by the left.
19:55And I think what changed is that, first of all, she started getting associated with far-right causes.
20:02White supremacists have found an interesting person to idolize. Taylor Swift has been named by one fringe group of white supremacists.
20:10And they think that, hey, you know, she's blonde, she's white, and she secretly hates the Jews.
20:17Adolf Hitler quotes were attributed to her and put on pictures of her and went viral, making it seem like she'd said all these awful things.
20:25And I don't doubt that there will have been some part of her calculation when it came to speaking out more publicly about politics,
20:30where she wanted to distance herself from this kind of heinous fan group that had somehow attached themselves to her.
20:40Thank you so much for this. And I just wanted to make a mention of the fact that this award and every single award given out tonight were voted on by the people.
20:52And you know what else is voted on by the people?
20:58Is the midterm elections on November 6th. Get out and vote. I love you guys.
21:02I think that's brave to come out and tell people to vote.
21:06But what is harder is to come out as a party political animal and to tell people explicitly to vote for one person over another.
21:15We are less than three weeks out until the midterms.
21:18And Tennessee Senate candidate Marsha Blackburn is up in the polls.
21:22But we know that the one poll that counts is November 6th.
21:25Then we're determined to be winning on November 6th. And the early vote starts today.
21:31It all really comes to a head with the 2018 midterm elections, where a Republican senator called Marsha Blackburn from Tennessee is up for re-election.
21:40And this is a senator who has voted against equal pay, against gay rights.
21:46I can't see another commercial and see her disguising these policies behind the words Tennessee Christian values.
21:57Those aren't Tennessee Christian values.
21:59I live in Tennessee. I am Christian. That's not what we stand for.
22:05I need to do this. I need you to just...
22:08Dad, I need you to forgive me for doing it, because I'm doing it.
22:10Watching the Miss Americana documentary and her tearful conversation with her father,
22:16where it is quite clear that she's asking him for forgiveness for what she's about to do.
22:22Why do you think Taylor Swift, out of nowhere, decided to get political?
22:25This is what I used to love about Taylor Swift, is she stayed away from politics.
22:29She was just all about music, all about female empowerment.
22:32Yesterday on Instagram, she wrote,
22:33I've been reluctant to publicly voice my political opinions. I feel very differently about that now.
22:40I mean, I think many people are impressed, and some are frightened,
22:44about the fact that Taylor Swift can send out, you know, one tweet,
22:49and 35,000 people will register to vote in 12 hours.
22:53Right? It's having that kind of reach.
22:56Let's say that I like Taylor's music about 25% less now, okay?
23:01All right, this is the big story. Singer Taylor Swift is slamming music executive Scooter Braun
23:11after he acquired the record company that owns her music, Big Machine Label Group,
23:16which released Taylor Swift's first six albums.
23:22Scooter Braun, being a great businessman, said,
23:25Wait, the Taylor Swift catalogs available for purchase?
23:29Count me in.
23:30Which brings us to Scooter Braun.
23:33Um, yeah.
23:36Here's someone who managed the guy that walked on stage and took my award,
23:41and it wasn't about business at that point.
23:46It was personal.
23:46Right from the get-go, Taylor directed the session.
24:16We wrote three songs in the first two days that we were together,
24:21and two of those are on the debut album, Taylor Swift.
24:26After we'd written a few songs, her dad started saying,
24:29Hey, Rob, look at that.
24:31Here's another 15 that she wrote, or here's, I mean, there's, I have tons of these.
24:36These are all from, like, back, way back.
24:40I mean, she's as young as 11 on some of these.
24:42I mean, most of these have never seen the light of day.
24:45So here's 16 songs.
24:48Copyright 2003, the same year we started writing.
24:51None of those are anything you've ever heard.
24:54Anytime I write any song with anybody, it goes in a file, just like,
24:57in case someday it becomes a hit, I can go,
24:59Well, here's what it looked like before, you know, the day we wrote it.
25:03Place in this world.
25:05It was a really strong idea because it was really what her life is.
25:09And she just says, I don't know what I want, so don't ask me, because I'm still trying to figure it out.
25:13I'm trying to see through the rain coming down, even though I'm the only one who feels the way I do.
25:19What's cool about that is, like, every kid feels that way, but millions of kids were able to relate to that line.
25:25You see what I'm saying?
25:26She had a plan, and she wasn't going to go off that plan, and she was not going to be stopped.
25:32And people were telling her no, left and right.
25:34You're too young.
25:36Let these other songwriters guide you.
25:38She was having none of that.
25:39I know there were people that wrote with her that I wrote with that said, yeah, I wrote with her.
25:44It's like, she didn't want to listen to any of my ideas.
25:47Like, well, yeah, but did you listen to her ideas?
25:49Because that's all you need to do.
25:51Late 2004, I had a regular standing gig at the Bluebird Cafe, and I just suggested maybe we just do a show at the Bluebird.
26:04What you're trying to do is get all the record labels to come see the show and give her a recording deal.
26:13All the major label people showed up.
26:17I'm looking out on a female who stayed there.
26:19There's one guy that is really getting it and has his eyes closed.
26:26I get noticing him, and after the show, he can hide Scott Wachetta.
26:31Because the good news is that I want to start up my own record label.
26:36And I would like to consider being one of the first artists.
26:41And I would believe in you, and I'll let you write your thoughts.
26:44Scott Wachetta just came forward and said, I'm starting a new label, and I want you to be my first artist.
26:52And who wouldn't want to hear that?
26:54Big Machine was the label that believed in her, that supported her, that gave her the ability to do what she wanted to do,
27:04which was to write her own songs and to sing and perform her own songs.
27:08And it was a big risk for Scott Wachetta to kind of say, this is the artist we're staking everything on.
27:13So, Taylor, on behalf of Big Machine Records and our partners, Universal Music Group Worldwide,
27:20we are so proud to present to you this plaque that indicates you have sold more than 20 million records worldwide.
27:29And we had, by all accounts, a really productive and long and fruitful relationship up until the point
27:35where she left to go to the Republic, and Scott Wachetta ended up selling Big Machine to Scooter Braun.
27:49Taylor Swift says her new record deal gives Swift more control over her own music.
27:55As far as we know, Republic promised, as part of this new deal, she will own all her masters.
28:01And that was, as we'll see, a really important thing for Taylor.
28:05She wanted to have full control over the songs that she was writing and making,
28:08which she did not get to do with Big Machine.
28:11I knew he would sell my music. I knew he would do that.
28:14I couldn't believe who he sold it to, because we've had endless conversations about Scooter Braun.
28:21And he has 300 million reasons to conveniently forget those conversations.
28:25Scooter Braun, he's the guy who discovered Justin Bieber.
28:31He's responsible for working with people like Ariana Grande.
28:35And crucially for this story, he is also the person who worked with Kanye West during the whole famous saga.
28:41The definition of the toxic male privilege in our industry is people saying,
28:49but he's always been nice to me when I'm raising valid concerns about artists and their rights to own their music.
28:57And of course, he's nice to you.
28:59If you're in this room, you have something he needs.
29:01The fact is that private equity is what enabled this man to think, according to his own social media post,
29:10that he could buy me.
29:13But I'm obviously not going willingly.
29:16I'm watching that and I'm going, oh my goodness, she's handling this perfectly.
29:21It's important for Taylor to get the credit that she deserves, especially in a culture where, in many cases,
29:31female artists are not given the credit that they deserve for the work they put in.
29:37And if there is one thing that people in Nashville know, if you are on the wrong side of Taylor Swift,
29:43you are on the wrong side.
29:45She writes about it on Tumblr and she says that this is her worst case scenario
29:53and she compares him taking control of her masters to him controlling a woman,
29:58which is quite a bold and audacious claim, right?
30:01She basically regards Scooter Braun as having had a real hand in the kind of harassment and bullying
30:07that she received at the hands of Kim Kardashian and Kanye West.
30:12Justin Bieber, who is on Scooter Braun's side, understandably says,
30:15why are you saying this? You know your fans are going to bully Scooter.
30:18And lo and behold, they do.
30:22No one stole her music. No one made her sign a bad record deal.
30:27Those were the types of record deals that everyone signed at that time.
30:30And Scooter Braun made a very good business decision. End of story.
30:36The decision that Taylor made to turn the fans loose on Scott and Scooter
30:42with only half of the conversation, I was a little disappointed.
30:47Death threats started happening.
30:49People started showing up at people's houses.
30:52And this is something that should have been discussed behind the scenes.
30:57When it gets to a place where there's death threats
31:03and there's offices being called and people being threatened in the manner they're at,
31:09I just think it's got out of hand.
31:10And I think people need to come together and have a conversation
31:12because that's not what this is about.
31:13That's not what we got in this industry for.
31:15The Taylor Swift fan army, the Swifties, are really protective of her.
31:20And I think that comes from this relatability that she's cultivated with them,
31:24the sense that she's let them into her inner world
31:27and given them in many ways ammunition to go out and take people on
31:31that they perceive to have done her dirty.
31:34I think the important thing to know is that she didn't really call them out
31:37or tell them to back off.
31:38They're called fans for a reason.
31:40It's short for fanatics.
31:46Now, could you re-record?
31:48Oh, yeah.
31:49Might you do that?
31:50Oh, yeah.
31:51That's a plan?
31:52Yeah, absolutely.
31:52In order to wrestle back control of the masters,
31:56she decides to re-record all the albums
31:59that Scooter Braun now has the master recordings for.
32:09Her re-recording the albums is her way of saying,
32:12you know, artists need to own their work.
32:14Like, this is their body of work.
32:16These are their babies.
32:17These are the things that mean the most to them.
32:19And artists deserve to own that.
32:21And artists deserve to be compensated for their work.
32:24And artists deserve to, you know,
32:26be able to have control over their work,
32:28you know, and be able to, you know,
32:29use it in the way they see fit.
32:31I'm so sick of running as fast as I can
32:37Wondering if I'd get that quick
32:42And if I was a man
32:44And I'm so sick of them coming at me
32:50Cause if I was a man
32:53Then I'd be the man
32:55I'd be the man
32:56With the American Music Awards performance,
33:02she's performing the first song off her new album
33:05with a bunch of kids dressed in shirts
33:08with the names of all the albums she's going to re-record,
33:11the ones that Scooter has the masters for.
33:13And she's performing a song called The Man,
33:16which is basically all about how she would be treated better
33:18if she was a man.
33:19And that is widely perceived to be
33:21about the treatment she's endured
33:23at the hands of someone like Scooter Braun
33:25who arguably would probably treat her very differently
33:28if she was a male rock star or a musician.
33:31And I think really it speaks to a kind of
33:33deeper narrative
33:35that was going on in society at the time
33:38where people, especially women,
33:39were just fed up of being told
33:42to kind of sit down and shut up.
33:50I started writing in diaries when I was 13.
33:52So these are the four deluxe editions of this album
33:56and each one contains 30 pages
34:00of my diary entries from my life.
34:05Because, you know, metaphorically,
34:06I've been sharing my diaries with you for years,
34:09so I figured why not just do it.
34:11Taylor's so excited.
34:12And yeah, I think that sums up who Taylor is.
34:15She just wants to give to her fans.
34:18August 25th, 2003, 13 years of age.
34:21I think I might just live through this year.
34:24Two exclamation points.
34:26I just hope I can keep up.
34:28This year could be fun.
34:30I don't care what people think of me now
34:32because I won't let them bring me down.
34:35Watching her there,
34:36reading her diary entries,
34:38showed how important it was to her.
34:40And she has this deep appreciation for her youth
34:44that not many people have.
34:47Having connected with Taylor through my diaries,
34:52I was like, oh my God.
34:54I was interested to see if she felt the same way
34:57that I did when I was her age.
34:59Like, what was she going through?
35:00I was finally maybe going to get to have some insight
35:06into that little girl that saved me,
35:10changed my life.
35:10I didn't usually post online about Taylor
35:16except, like, on her birthdays.
35:18I laid everything out on my bed,
35:22had a laptop propped up
35:23and my kitten crawling around.
35:25And I had in that pile my demo CD
35:28that I had just gotten out
35:29because I wanted to listen to it
35:30and panned over it in a very short video.
35:33And I posted it to Instagram.
35:36And I don't know if I just, like,
35:38tagged the right hashtag or what,
35:42but the post got swept up
35:43into the Instagram Swifty fandom.
35:48People are so interested in the story.
35:50Somebody had found
35:52one of my birthday posts for Taylor
35:54and it's the picture from 2003.
35:56I'll post it every year just as a memoriam.
35:59Wish her a happy birthday and all of that.
36:01And then so many people were interested.
36:05It was all kindness and love and support
36:08and it comforted me.
36:11It gave me the courage to tell a little bit of the story.
36:15The post was shared throughout the fandom.
36:18It effectively went viral.
36:20And generally, they were all wanting Taylor to meet me.
36:26So when I got a message on Tumblr,
36:30having been in the fandom,
36:31you know when that message comes through,
36:33it's usually paired with a Secret Sessions invitation.
36:36I was at work.
36:37My heart dropped.
36:38I started crying.
36:39I could not keep it together.
36:45You know, you get there
36:46and Taylor has made, like, a spread of food.
36:51Cookies and pizza and whatever, whatever else.
36:53She just goes all out.
36:55And everybody knows we're going to get ushered into a living room
37:00where we sit down and we listen to the album that nobody's ever heard.
37:05And you could feel it.
37:07Like, the excitement was just electric.
37:09And then becomes the time of meet and greet.
37:12Sort of walked into this other part of the house and, like, there's Taylor.
37:17And she's smiling and she says my name and everything just dropped away.
37:26And she just wraps me up in the biggest hug.
37:28I didn't know I needed it.
37:33And she doesn't let go.
37:36She holds on until you are ready.
37:39When she talks to you, you're the only person in the room.
37:42And she wants to know everything.
37:45And we joked back and forth.
37:47And she said she liked my hair.
37:49And, like, it was just, it was like she was a friend.
37:51And she, at one point, thanked me, thanked me for being there, like, all those years.
37:58And I didn't really know I needed to hear that.
38:00I mean, I would have been fine never hearing that.
38:02But I, I don't know, it broke me in the best way that she appreciated it.
38:10And, like, I didn't really know I needed to hear that.
38:40You know, it's a kind of way for her to thank people for sticking with her through every single phase of her life,
38:46through the controversies, through the scandals.
38:50And that was certainly borne out by the fact that people were absolutely dying to get tickets.
38:55Some Taylor Swift fans may have a Ticketmaster hangover this morning after trying for hours,
39:00and I mean hours, to buy tickets for her upcoming tour yesterday.
39:04And many came up empty-handed.
39:10Fans are still talking about Taylor Swift's love split.
39:25Yeah, with Joe Alwyn, they were together for six years.
39:29It does seem to be that they have split.
39:31It's interesting, People Magazine are talking about East Source,
39:35said that Joe struggled with Taylor's level of fame and the attention from the public.
39:40There was a video of her that came out of her on the Heiress tour singing Lover, and she was crying.
39:48You know, it's not a sad song, but it's sad because, I mean,
39:52we can only assume you're no longer with the person you wrote it about.
39:54Yeah.
39:55Like, we see you, we hear you, we love you, and we got you, we'll catch you.
40:13What does she say?
40:13Um, easy they come, easy they go.
40:16I jump from the train, I ride off alone.
40:18I never grew up.
40:20It's getting so old.
40:21Help me hold on to you.
40:22So, I just, oh my God, I could cry.
40:25Just this fear that you're a person that cannot truly ever hold on to anyone.
40:31Because I'm sure when people look at Taylor Swift, they're like,
40:34what's Taylor Swift?
40:35Like, who, who could ever leave Taylor Swift?
40:38But at the same time, like, who could ever date Taylor Swift?
40:42Like, that's, that's, that's Taylor Swift.
40:44That's a lot, you know?
40:45And imagine being her.
40:49I think growing up as Taylor Swift must have been awful.
40:52Because, think about it this way.
40:55She's a teenage girl when she starts making music.
40:57She does go to school, but she doesn't really finish school in the kind of traditional sense,
41:02because she's being homeschooled.
41:04Even that kind of classic coming of age moment where you move to the big city and get a bunch
41:08of new friends, dating maybe the wrong kind of guy, you know, getting embroiled in messy
41:13love affairs, even that is up for debate on social media.
41:16I think it's enormously difficult to grow up with that kind of scrutiny on you.
41:24I think she really is a kind of bellwether for how we as society view women, because she
41:29is in many ways the perfect kind of blank space, right?
41:33She's, you know, conventionally pretty, attractive, white, American.
41:37She is a stand-in for so many of the things that we are worried about, that we're concerned
41:40about as a society, because she is that kind of perfect Miss American girl.
41:45And, you know, when you become a symbol of a much greater whole, America itself, you are
41:51always going to have people who are going to project a lot of things onto you.
41:54You know, a mirrorball is the sparkly thing in the room that everyone looks at and goes,
42:18ooh, an ah, an ah, but like, it's broken, it's shattered, it's in pieces, and it still
42:27shines, and it still reflects back what you want to see.
42:32And I think that's just the most beautiful way to describe the emotion of feeling like
42:39you need to put on a performance for people to like you.
42:42When you are only whatever people need you to be, that weighs really heavily on your
42:48soul, and you kind of lose yourself in the process.
42:51You know, there's that old phrase where it's heavy as the head that wears the crown, and
42:55you kind of get a sense of that in mirrorball, where she's worn this crown for so long, and
43:00it's worn down so heavily on her, it's completely just kind of worn her out.
43:04So, you know, I've been writing songs and playing shows since I was about 12 years old,
43:08and so I kind of developed, as a human being, a coping mechanism of, um, going through something
43:17or feeling extreme emotions, writing songs that include those emotions, and then playing
43:23them for you and going, have you guys ever felt this way too, or is it just me?
43:28And then when you do that, or you sing along to the songs, it makes me feel like I'm not
43:38alone.
43:38So that is the whole process I go through.
43:43Often you'll find that great artists, there's an insecurity.
43:46I mean, this need to be loved.
43:48And the only moment they feel happy is when they get the applause from a crowd.
43:53I mean, I'm not going to be a psychiatrist here, but then that need to connect and feel
43:58warmth back from an audience.
44:00Plenty of artists will tell you that.
44:01It's that moment on stage and the energy they get from an audience.
44:05So to keep connected with the fans is also, gives you security and gives you strength.
44:13Taylor has notoriously loyal fans.
44:15And I think the Heiress Tour, you know, underlined that with like a big, you know, fat red pen.
44:21They were there to support her as much as she was putting on a show for them.
44:24They were there to make her feel supported and feel validated.
44:28If an alien came down and watched the Heiress Tour, they would think Taylor Swift's a cult
44:42leader and good for her.
44:45The connection with the fans was something I had hardly ever seen before.
44:50It was way beyond just being music.
44:51And it did almost have an element of spirituality to it.
44:55Church gives you built-in community.
44:57Taylor Swift's music and fandom gives you built-in community.
45:01Absolutely.
45:02Take me to church, mama.
45:03Taylor is Jesus.
45:05Quote.
45:07Who is going to give you that guidance of how you should be living your life?
45:11And Taylor Swift was that for millions and millions of people.
45:17It became the trademark of the Heiress Tour that you would show up with a bunch of friendship
45:25bracelets to trade with people.
45:28You would make them with the song lyrics or with song names.
45:31And the friendship bracelets are an excuse to go up to someone that you've never met before
45:36and find that commonality and be like, hey, this is for you.
45:39She's saying that all of us are on our own individual path, but it doesn't have to be
45:44a lonely experience.
45:45You can find other people and enrich your life with these other people.
45:49You can look on the Heiress Tour as being the ultimate kind of rebuttal to all those people
45:54who said that famous, the scandal, would end her career and that she was irrelevant.
46:00There is no greater kind of clapback for a woman, I think, than commercial success, particularly
46:05in the music industry, which continues to be so dominated and controlled by men.
46:15You know, Taylor Swift is something America can agree on, particularly after she started
46:20dating one of the biggest football players in America.
46:23Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift are engaged and the world wants your reaction, sir.
46:27Well, I wish I'm a lot of love.
46:31Suddenly, the girl who was in the bleachers is very much the top cheerleader.
46:36It's undeniable that the cross-marketing with the two of them is pretty unbelievable.
46:41I don't know how you top the Heiress Tour as far as being a billionaire.
46:47I don't know how you top that.
46:48I hope what comes next for Taylor is that she has found her person and that she gets to experience
46:54the things that most people get to experience and that some people just give the girl a break
47:01for once.
47:03Ultimately, she's created a safe place for millions of women around the world.
47:07True feminism doesn't always have to look like what you think it's going to look like.
47:12It can look like wearing a dress and boots, but also standing up to the men in the room.
47:20I think she says to young women that you matter, which I think is sadly still a message that
47:26still needs to be said today.
47:28So make the fresh embrace, let's take the moment and taste it, you've got no reason to be afraid.
47:37As she's performing, she's smiling and she's laughing.
47:44She's saying, you're on your own, kid, but that's okay.
47:47You're on your own, kid.
47:51You can face this.
47:56You're on your own, kid.
47:57It always happens.
47:59Well, it was the first commitment ceremony earlier tonight and the experts weren't messing
48:11about.
48:12New Maths UK stream it so far now.
48:14We'll watch as it continues tomorrow at 9 on E4.
48:17Film for tonight, the right song at the right time could change everything.
48:20For one, Dreamer, Little Yachty, Method Man and Rhapsody all feature in drama on the come-up
48:24at 11.40.
48:26Next here, the latest Gogglebox.
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