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Cold Case UK Season 1 Episode 2
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00:00Glasgow 2005.
00:0427-year-old Emma Caldwell has arranged to meet her family, but fails to turn up.
00:10The parents went to visit her and she wasn't there.
00:13They were really concerned. They reported her missing.
00:16Friends and family begin searching for her.
00:19But just over four weeks later, in an isolated forest
00:23some 40 miles from where she was last seen, a discovery is made.
00:28This dog walker finds a body in a ditch.
00:32They call police and it's ascertained that this body is Emma.
00:37A murder investigation was set up, which consisted of about 50 detectives.
00:42The police were taking this seriously.
00:44They were putting the resources in to try and solve it as quickly as possible.
00:49Police are now under tremendous pressure.
00:51They are desperate to get this dangerous man off the streets.
00:56He was frightening. He was terrifying.
00:58This man is a stalker. He is aggressive.
01:01The hunt for the killer of Emma Caldwell would become one of the longest running cold cases in recent history.
01:08Leaving the Glasgow community terrified and vulnerable.
01:11Women in that area were terrified of encountering him.
01:15Instead of encountering him, they were terrified of going out onto the streets because of this vicious individual.
01:20This is just someone who is violent towards women who wants his way with them.
01:27A full 13 years passed before the cold case file is reopened.
01:36Emma's family are desperate for news, desperate to find the monster that killed their daughter.
01:41The police, they're able to identify the man that they believe is a suspect in this investigation.
01:48They believe that he is Emma's killer. And this time, they're going to get him.
01:54Card Ross, a village in Argyle Butte in Scotland, is home to Emma Caldwell, who was one of the most famous people.
02:23Card Ross, who was born in 1978 and was reported to have a very happy childhood.
02:28Emma Caldwell grew up in a loving family, great parents who doted on her.
02:33But her life dramatically changed just as she was reaching adulthood when her beloved older sister Karen sadly died aged 31.
02:41Emma, who had previously been doing really well at school, going to horse riding lessons,
02:48and she was heavily involved in looking after animals in the local area, very outdoorsy, very caring.
02:55But this had a catastrophic impact on her.
02:58Unfortunately, at the time, her boyfriend that she was seeing said,
03:01I know a way that you can treat your grief. Here's something that you can try.
03:06And that something to try was, unfortunately, heroin.
03:08And that set her on a course, which had a catastrophic impact on her life.
03:14She moves to Glasgow to have better access to these drugs and quickly her life spirals.
03:21She ends up living in the Inglefield Hostel, which is a women's only hostel.
03:27Heroin is a massively destructive drug. Once they try it, they very much want to try and recreate the high that they get from heroin every time they try it.
03:42Which means that each high has to be sooner and they have to take more to reach the high they had before.
03:49And it's obviously expensive, so they have to fund this habit.
03:53Unbeknown to her parents and unbeknown to her family,
03:57tragically at this point, Emma begins to support her drug addiction with sex work.
04:03I was a detective in a, I suppose, a semi-rural area.
04:07I worked in Dumbarton on the book.
04:10Book inquiries are your day-to-day jobs, you know, thefts, minor assaults, serious assaults.
04:17Some occasionally murders, but I hadn't worked on a murder as a detective up until that point.
04:22Going to Glasgow, it was an eye-opener for me.
04:28Some of the stories the girls would tell you, horrendous.
04:31All their activities were drugs-driven.
04:37You know, they did it because they had to, they didn't want to do it.
04:41By all accounts, a terrible life.
04:45It's going off to secluded places, so they're exposed to risks of violence, rape, physical abuse, sexual abuse.
04:55The girls there were reporting lots of violence.
04:58They were keeping a book, that they were calling the Beware Book, to warn each other against particularly bad customers.
05:06It meant that they needed to be on the guard for, because it was so dangerous.
05:10There had been all these murders and attacks.
05:12For Emma herself, she was what I would describe as vulnerable, and in probably one of the most dangerous places that she could be.
05:25Although Emma's family is unaware of her lifestyle, they remain in regular contact.
05:32She's speaking to her mum and dad every single day.
05:35Her parents are visiting her faithfully at this hostel, which must break their heart every time they go there,
05:40to give her oranges, clean clothes, top up her phone card, make sure she's got everything they need.
05:46And also saying to her, look, whenever you want to come home, please come home.
05:50We're here for you. We'll do anything you need.
05:53They are there. They are listening.
05:55And Emma, who's responding, she knows that she's in a bad way, and she's looking at getting rehab treatment at this point.
06:01But in April 2005, Emma's parents stop hearing from her.
06:08It was Emma's mum that first became concerned that she hadn't heard from her daughter for some time, which was really, really unusual.
06:18Her father had tried to contact her by phone, and she hadn't answered.
06:22So he'd gone to her hostel, and he'd knocked on the door, but there was no answer.
06:26He'd gone back and told his wife that he'd tried, and there was no answer from Emma.
06:30And this was really out of character for Emma.
06:32So the following day, Emma's mother went to try and knock on her door as well.
06:37So she knocks on the door, again, no answer.
06:39She sits outside, she hoots a horn for a long time, but Emma doesn't appear.
06:43They were really concerned.
06:45They reported her missing.
06:46When a person is reported her missing, what essentially the police investigation will consist of is looking for the footprints in life that we all leave behind wherever we go.
06:59So that's what they were doing back then for Emma, looking for the places that she would have frequented, any use of any debit cards, credit cards, use of a mobile phone, all these kind of breadcrumbs that we leave behind in our everyday life.
07:14There was one in particular with Emma that was really important to the police investigation, and that was the fact that she was prescribed methadone, a drug that is given to heroin users.
07:24Essentially what that means is every day she would have to go to a chemist, and there and then in front of the chemist, drink the methadone that's prescribed to her.
07:33The fact that she wasn't doing this really then raised concerns because this was what was keeping her going, essentially.
07:41And the fact that she wasn't getting her prescription really suggested that something may have happened to her.
07:49If you're a police officer investigating a missing sex worker who is also an addict, you've got a number of problems.
07:55First of all, generally speaking, away from this case, somebody who's an addict will go anywhere they can to get their fix.
08:01And also sex workers, they don't necessarily want to speak to the police because they might face criminal charges.
08:07And their client group also don't want to speak to police because they don't want to face charges.
08:13And so you have this whole cloak of silence around a vice industry, a vice industry where there's a huge amount of risk,
08:19huge amounts of potential for violence, issues of drugs, issues of other problems.
08:25When the missing person investigation fails to turn up any initial leads, detectives begin checking local CCTV footage.
08:37The last known footage of Emma was CCTV from the hostel where she leaves on the 4th of April 2005.
08:47And it's about quarter to 11 in the evening.
08:49And she's seen leaving to go out to start her evening on the streets.
08:53The last images of Emma that are seen are Emma in a short skirt, her hair, dragged into a bob, walking down the street, preparing to get into a car to meet a client.
09:05That's the last image that we know definitively that's ever captured of her on CCTV.
09:11On Sunday the 8th of May, which is now five weeks since Emma was last seen, there was a terrible discovery.
09:24A dog walker is walking in a place called Limefield Woods.
09:29Beautiful countryside, but very remote.
09:32And they're about 43 miles away from the centre of Glasgow.
09:36They're letting their dog off the lead and the dog smells something and essentially leads the owner through a dead body.
09:46She was in a ditch, naked, and quite clearly had been subjected to some violence.
09:52They call police and it's ascertained that this body is Emma.
09:57The missing persons case is now upgraded to a homicide investigation.
10:02A violent predator is at large in the city of Glasgow.
10:06And for Strathclyde police, the local community is at risk and the clock is ticking.
10:12On the 8th of May, 2005, the body of 27-year-old Emma Caldwell has just been discovered in the remote area of Limefield Woods in South Lanarkshire, 43 miles south of Glasgow.
10:34On finding a body and on calling the police, they would attend.
10:39They would confirm what the dog walker has found.
10:42They would then cordon off that area and you would have an inner cordon and an outer cordon.
10:46Only people that would then enter the crime scene are those that are wearing what we call full barrier clothing.
10:53You would have seen them in the white paper suits and the masks, over shoes and gloves.
10:58So that when they go into there, they're not going to be interfering in any way with the evidence.
11:03And they would then be looking for any forensic clues, anything within that crime scene that could give a clue as to who the person is,
11:12can give a clue as to how they got there and how they died, and also who killed them.
11:18One particularly important piece of evidence, and that was some cable, which was found with the body.
11:27And it was kind of charred at one end. I never thought anything of it at that point.
11:34Emma's body was moved to a mortuary in order to carry out a special post-mortem, where they'd be looking to try and establish a cause of death.
11:41The forensic pathologist was able to establish that Emma had died through strangulation, manual strangulation, meaning it was done with somebody's hands.
11:49If you just think about the mechanics of manual strangulation, it's such a personal crime. You're close.
11:56Now, generally, it would be someone face to face, which means you're looking at someone in the eye as you're doing it.
12:02But they were also able to establish that there was some injuries around the neck consistent with a cord being placed around it.
12:11It takes a certain type of mentality to be able to kill someone in this way.
12:17Having identified the body to be that of 27-year-old Emma Caldwell, police now turned to Emma's parents to confirm the news.
12:27As a police officer, you give people what we call a death message.
12:34And you have to do it fairly often. But you know it never gets easier.
12:38A really brutal thing to have to do. But it needed to be done face to face.
12:42And Emma's parents needed to know as quickly as possible.
12:45Emma's family are dealing with the horrifying grief that they've lost a second daughter.
12:51And they also didn't know until she went missing, until her body was found, that she turned to sex work to pursue her drug habit.
13:01The police are now under tremendous pressure. As discussed earlier, more than one woman tragically has been murdered in this area.
13:08And the police have a poor record of finding those who did it.
13:12As soon as police realise that Emma is in a line of sex workers who have been killed, they set up an operation and they call it Operation Grail.
13:25They put excess of 50 police officers onto this operation. And this operation will work day and night to try and find the killer.
13:33There's concern that this killer obviously might strike again. And there's a scramble to gather all of the shards and bits of information.
13:43There's a public appeal. TV shows, TV news are running every single piece of information.
13:49There's press outside the poor family's house. The young lady's image is beamed on a huge building in the town centre.
13:57So absolutely everybody can see Emma's face. And so everybody knows this girl, everybody knows what happened to her, nobody knows how.
14:07And so the police are scrambling around trying to interview people that might have booked her services as a sex worker,
14:13speak to people that lived in the hostel with her, people that might have worked with her, known her.
14:18And it's very difficult to know exactly who she might have seen or been in contact with in the hours leading up to her death.
14:24Detectives take in excess of 8,000 statements, and it's not long before a suspect begins to emerge in this case.
14:34There was a girl called Kellyanne. She had information about a guy who seemed kind of obsessed by Emma.
14:44She recalled one incident that this guy approached in the van and Emma's immediate reaction was,
14:52oh no, not him. I don't want to go with him.
14:56But anyway, the guy got out and she did go with him.
14:59The billboards, I believe, there were some bushes and Emma came out screaming and crying, shouting, he raped me.
15:06He traumatised Emma because of this appalling public attack.
15:14Not only that, as Emma desperately tried to get money to feed her drug habit,
15:19he also scared off any other men that might try and pay for Emma's services.
15:25Other men would drive past Emma on her street spot and this individual would drive his van at them,
15:31make lots of noise, scare them off, and so Emma was left in the position that she would have to use this individual for cash.
15:40They would have to get in his car so that she could earn the money to pay for her habit.
15:44Emma was desperately distressed and frightened, and other girls in the area were frightened of this individual.
15:50Surely the police should be looking at this individual as number one suspect.
15:57I took a statement from Kelly Ann. She described this guy.
16:02She talked about his height, she talked about his build, he looked kind of muscular, with dark hair.
16:07She described his tattoos, she described his jewellery.
16:10Kelly Ann talks about this guy with livery on the side of his van.
16:15She thought he was a painter and decorator. So, took the statement. That was fine.
16:21We were heading back to the office and we got information that there had been a guy called Ian Packer.
16:28He stopped in a van, been driving around the area that Emma worked.
16:32We got the details of this guy who had been stopped and information came through that he had been quite hostile in his opinions of prostitutes.
16:41The cop that had spoken to him at the time and asked him, have you ever been up here? Do you ever use prostitutes?
16:46And his reaction was quite, no, I've never used prostitutes. Hate them.
16:51Despite his repeated denials of soliciting sex workers, police grew increasingly suspicious of Ian Packer.
16:58His van was similar to the vehicle described in the witness statement.
17:02We got his address and arrangements were made for him to come to the police office to be spoken to.
17:11The following day, he attended and he was exactly as Kelly Ann described.
17:19Same height, a kind of swarthy kind of look.
17:22He'd just come straight from work, so he was dressed in his work clothes.
17:25Even at that point, although I hadn't been a detective for that long, I had been interviewing people for a long time.
17:31I used to be on a dedicated prisoner interview team.
17:35So I would interview dozens of people every day.
17:38And you get a feel for it when people are trying to ingratiate themselves with you.
17:43They use your name too much. They are overly friendly.
17:46This was what Ian Packer was doing.
17:49Ian denies ever having visited sex workers.
17:53No, absolutely not. I don't visit sex workers.
17:56Emma Caldwell? No, never heard of her.
17:58Never seen anybody or heard of anybody called Emma Caldwell.
18:02So although Ian Packer denies any responsibility or even knowing any sex workers,
18:07one of the police officers working on the case recognises the wire that was found on Emma's body.
18:14I used to be a neon draftsman.
18:16For some reason, I thought of the cable.
18:20And I thought the cable burnt at one end.
18:24Could it be that that piece of cable had been used for something other than its original purpose?
18:31Could it have been used to repair a sign?
18:33And the voltage of the sign was too much for the cable?
18:37In the case against suspect Ian Packer, a sign writer by trade, the evidence is mounting, but detectives do not have enough to retain him in custody.
18:47And he is released.
18:49Undeterred, Stuart Hall and his team continue to build the case against him.
18:53We were instructed to seize Packer's van.
18:59So we went to his home address. It was pretty late on.
19:03And forensic suits on, you know, the paper suits and boots and masks and hoods.
19:08And we seized his van and took that back to a secure lockup at Paisley police office where that was to be forensically examined.
19:20So you would look for things like soil samples, body fluid samples, anything at all which may connect him with the murder.
19:32They take a photograph of him and then they put this photograph into an album of 11 other men who are similar in age, looks, and they take it to the girls out on the streets.
19:47And they were asked, is there anyone within these photos that you recognize?
19:51And they said, yes.
19:53What had this man done?
19:55Well, he was the man that was harassing Emma.
19:58He was the man that was scaring off her clients.
20:02And most worryingly, he was a man that raped her.
20:08She picked him out immediately.
20:10That's her.
20:12So as police continue to talk to the sex workers, more and more of them come forward to talk specifically about Ian Packer.
20:20They will say that he was violent, that he didn't like to use a condom,
20:26but that he always wanted them to get naked.
20:32And there was another girl.
20:33She also recognized Packer.
20:36She talks about being taken to Pollock Park by a male in a van who assaulted her.
20:43And that was also Packer.
20:46In the investigation room, they are beginning to very much think Ian Packer's the man.
20:54There's a hardcore group who are saying, look, Packer is the guy.
20:58And one of those investigators, he said, look, I worked making neon signs myself for 10 years.
21:04And I recognize the wire at the scene of the crime as being a wire that you would use in neon signs.
21:11This guy drives a van.
21:12He makes signs for a living.
21:13Also, there's been picked out by multiple sex workers who say, he put his hands around my throat.
21:19He was violent.
21:20He was aggressive.
21:21He raped me.
21:22This guy is terrifying.
21:23Please take this guy off the streets.
21:27Detectives working on Operation Grail are confident that Ian Packer is their killer.
21:32But unbeknownst to them, another team who are working on the case have narrowed in on a completely new group of suspects.
21:40Is Ian Packer about to fall through the cracks in the investigation?
21:43Detectives are closing in on sign maker Ian Packer in the murder case of 27-year-old Glaswegian local Emma Caldwell.
22:06But as they're about to make an arrest, they are ordered to stand down.
22:10Another team has zeroed in on a group of men that they are convinced are responsible for Emma's death.
22:19Emma Caldwell the night she went missing.
22:21At 20 past 11 that night, she received a phone call to her mobile phone, 70 seconds long, and it was from a Turkish man.
22:31This individual then left the country shortly after Emma went missing and Emma's body was found.
22:37He was arguably the last person to see Emma alive, as far as they know, and so they start piecing the case around him.
22:46They interview him, he admits that he booked Emma and that he paid for sex, and that he also frequented this Turkish cafe.
22:54This Turkish cafe is particularly interesting for a number of reasons.
22:56The police become aware that sex workers are often brought to this cafe where they are given a rough time.
23:03They are abused, some of them have sex on the site, it's largely male clientele of this cafe, and indeed the owner of the cafe is a convicted sex offender.
23:14So the police then set up an operation called Operation Guard.
23:21They placed covert listening devices in this cafe.
23:23They were audio and visually recorded.
23:26And they also deployed a Turkish police officer undercover within this cafe.
23:32And they obtained audio recordings from these listening devices.
23:37Their interpretation was that these men were talking about having known Emma and having got rid of her.
23:46The translators tells his supervisors that the audio reveals the Turkish men discussing how they murdered Emma and dumped her body.
23:53Their next priority is to gather more evidence proving their guilt.
23:59Investigators also search the home of the Turkish male who had made the 72nd long call to Emma the night before she disappeared.
24:08When they search his home, they find wire very similar to the wire that was found next to Emma's body.
24:15The police decided it was time to bring the Turkish males in.
24:19And whilst they're being questioned, they search the cafe.
24:22And up in one of the bedrooms in the cafe, they find a speck of blood.
24:26And this speck of blood belongs to Emma.
24:31You can see why they're building a strong case here.
24:34This strong case becomes cemented in the senior officer's mind when they find traces of Emma's DNA within the premises of the cafe itself.
24:44You now have Emma in the cafe. You have sex workers saying that they've had rough treatment in the cafe.
24:51You've got a guy who's previously attacked women running the cafe.
24:54DNA appears on the face of it to be an open and shut case.
24:58In murder inquiries, it's not the case. You have to explore every possible reasonable reason to explain the presence of that DNA.
25:09And the fact that the police had information at the time that numerous prostitutes were frequenting this cafe,
25:15they had to take into account that there could have been a reasonable explanation for Emma's DNA being within this premises at that time.
25:24And it wasn't entirely sinister that it was there.
25:28Tensions surrounding the identity of the killer begin to fester among the police officers.
25:33The original investigators on Operation Grail still have their suspicions about Ian Packer.
25:43It was kind of like the rug had been taken because the other detectives who were there, there was a kind of attitude like,
25:51We know. We know. We know. And we're like, you know what? What do you know? Tell us.
25:59I've still not heard a connection with the deposition site.
26:03I'm not hearing anything that's given me hope that what I've found is wrong.
26:10At no point in this inquiry did I hear anything that bettered what I had found from Packer.
26:16The connection to that site was, he was a sign erector.
26:22In my experience and my knowledge, sign erectors have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of the highways and byways of the country.
26:33They're like taxi drivers on a bigger scale.
26:36They'll know all the shortcuts and they'll know all the roads.
26:39But perhaps the most telling thing was meeting Pauline McGaughey.
26:49She was another drug user, a prostitute.
26:52We met with Pauline on February 2006 with her boyfriend in Glasgow.
26:58And took a statement from Pauline and she talks about a male in a van who assaulted her.
27:08Police accompany this woman to the location of the assault.
27:12Shockingly, they are led to Limefield Woods, the place where Emma's body was discovered.
27:17She's telling us how Ian Packer, who she had identified, described his van and everything else,
27:27made her strip naked, made her turn off her phone and he demanded that he wanted sex with her.
27:34And while he was doing that, he was choking her.
27:37She didn't want to strip completely. She says, I still had one leg in my trousers.
27:46I'm there and I'm looking. Across there's where Emma's body's found.
27:53The chances of two people going to the same place for the same thing.
27:58He's made her strip naked, turn off her phone. He's choked her.
28:01Emma was found naked and we believe she was strangled.
28:03How's, how's this not connected?
28:09Still stand by that. Absolutely.
28:12So I'm thinking, up until this point on the inquiry, I haven't heard any connection with any of the Turks
28:18to Limefield Woods.
28:21I'm keeping an open mind, but I've not heard anything that makes me think,
28:26yeah, no, right, okay, Packer. Maybe not.
28:31However, I can't say the same on my colleagues.
28:34And it's like everyone's heads turned.
28:37Ah, this is it. This is what it is.
28:39Packer, it's not Packer.
28:41I was actually ridiculed a couple of times by colleagues.
28:44Come on, Stuart, it's not Packer.
28:46They obviously know something that we don't.
28:48And I think, well, I've not, I've not heard it yet.
28:50Despite the lack of evidence tying the Turkish suspects to the crime scene where Emma was found,
28:57police think they have enough evidence to charge them.
29:00The strongest piece being the audio recordings.
29:03So following the arrest of four Turkish males, their defense says that they want the tapes that have been gained through the covert surveillance,
29:12they want them translated by a proper translator.
29:16It turns out that originally, these tapes were translated by a police officer who was Turkish,
29:22but only had a small grasp of the Turkish language.
29:25So they asked for them to be translated properly.
29:26When they take it for a second opinion, these translators just say, this is not what these tapes are saying.
29:33This is, this evidence proves nothing.
29:35And at that point, the case against the Turkish men falls apart.
29:39The case against the Turkish men was dropped in 2008.
29:43By this point, Strathclyde police have spent £4 million in the Emma Caldwell murder investigation.
29:49The case goes cold.
29:51Emma's family, desperate for news to catch the monster that killed their daughter, put him behind bars,
29:58stopped getting regular updates from the investigation team.
30:02And the investigation team, they don't have any new information.
30:07Police officers still have their suspicions about Ian Packer, but he's not being touched anymore.
30:13So we have out on the streets, we have the sex workers.
30:16They're scared.
30:17The case goes cold for a number of years, but then seven years later, 2015, Ian Packer is cast into the spotlight once again.
30:26After the most expensive murder inquiry in the history of Strathclyde police in 2008,
30:31the investigation into 27-year-old Emma Caldwell's death collapsed.
30:48After the case against its prime suspects, a group of Turkish men fell apart.
30:52The trail went cold until seven years later in 2015, when the spotlight of suspicion fell back to 42-year-old sign maker Ian Packer.
31:04After the case collapsed against the Turkish men, the police carried on their investigation.
31:09The investigation actually never stopped.
31:13Ian Packer was somebody that was always in the background of this crime.
31:18Not just with the police, but with the public as well, to the point where about 10 years later,
31:24he was named in the Sunday Mail as somebody connected with Emma's murder.
31:29The people of Glasgow suddenly knew Ian Packer's name, and Ian Packer suddenly knows everyone knows it might be him.
31:41From 2016 onwards, at that time I was working within the major investigation team.
31:47And at that time there, me and my team were tasked with conducting directed surveillance of Ian Packer.
31:55We were told to keep an eye on him.
31:57He was staying in a flat near Glasgow.
32:01So we had to do what we would call a recce, and that's reconnaissance.
32:07We would typically use covert vehicles.
32:10We typically wouldn't dress like police officers.
32:12We followed him continuously, to ensure that he didn't attack any female.
32:20He was creepy and he was strange.
32:22Very, he would walk his dog, habitually.
32:25And the way he walked around, didn't sit right with me.
32:29You were, you felt almost on edge, keeping an eye on him.
32:34And you could tell there just something wasn't right with him.
32:36Luckily enough, he didn't attack anyone during the time that we were keeping an eye on him.
32:45Although the surveillance operation uncovers no evidence, growing media speculation naming Ian Packer as the killer, prompts him to try to clear his name.
32:54In 2018, he gets in touch with a BBC journalist by the name of Samantha Poling, and he says that he wants to clear his name.
33:02He wants to tell his side of the story, how he's an innocent man, and he's been dragged through the mud.
33:08His name's been dragged through the mud of all these years that he's been linked to this murder that he didn't commit.
33:11The first interview that she does is, it's very soft, it's very gentle, it's letting him tell the story from his point of view.
33:21This is his chance to really put his word forward. He can clear his name, he can tell her, you know, how he's the victim in it all almost.
33:29Unbeknown to him, she is an investigative journalist and she's going to go away and do her research.
33:35She spoke to other girls who had been working in the area that reported having been attacked by him.
33:43There was lots and lots of evidence that came forward to suggest that he was telling a pack of lies.
33:48She calls him back for a second interview. He sits down to be interviewed by her and he's confronted with all this evidence.
33:58And she puts it to him, you're lying to me, you did know Emma.
34:01You took Emma to that secluded location. You'd met with her very regularly. You were obsessed with her.
34:15And the colours draining from his face, he was not expecting this. And he's really, his back's against the wall.
34:21He's stuck. He can't. He continues trying to deny it. Why would I? Why would I have come to you with this story if I had done all of this? But she's got it. She's got him.
34:33Ian Packer's BBC interview is broadcast on screens and it grabs a huge amount of attention, not only in Scotland, but abroad, where people who grew up in Scotland might also be watching it.
34:47Ian Packer's face is immediately recognisable to somebody in Thailand.
34:52This lady remembers Ian Packer because he had a nightmarish impact on her childhood.
34:59Growing up in Scotland, then aged 14 years old, Ian Packer would arrive at the house as a family friend and he would put his hands on her.
35:07He would grope her. He would touch her.
35:09Sometimes she would wake up on her bed and she would look there and Ian Packer was hovering over her.
35:16Not only that, Ian Packer, she said, definitely raped her.
35:21Due to some brilliant journalism and the doggedness of this journalist, Samantha Poling, the police reopen the investigation.
35:35They believe that Ian Packer is their man who had murdered Emma.
35:39And this time they're going to get him.
35:42They go back and they talk to the victims from the first time round.
35:47They talk to them again. They restatement them.
35:49But of course, initially the police, the actual police on Op Grail had done a really good job.
35:55They knew they had their man. They were just told to leave him alone.
35:58So all that information that had been gathered then was still there.
36:02Together with the new information that the police had and the information that Samantha had given them,
36:07police were able to charge Packer with the murder of Emma Caldwell.
36:15At this point, I had retired a couple of times. I was determined not to go to court.
36:19I had such a hatred for the police because of this case, I wasn't going to be one of them.
36:23But I was happy to do my best to put Packer away.
36:27Because even after all these years, I knew it was him.
36:32Ian Packer stood trial in January 2024.
36:38So at the trial that came out, there were soil samples found in the footwell of the van we had seized in 2005.
36:49I don't know if the samples were actually looked at at that point or they were just seized and stored
36:56because they were not interested in Packer. They wanted to make it these four Turkish males.
37:04These soil samples match to the forest where Emma was found with a 99.99% accuracy.
37:12Even after all the evidence that had been gathered by the police,
37:19the evidence gathered by the investigative journalist was put to him,
37:24he was still denying having murdered Emma.
37:27He admitted that, yes, I'd been with Emma on a number of occasions.
37:31He denied raping Emma, but he admitted that he may have had sex with her
37:34and carried on after she asked him to stop.
37:37But he fell short of admitting rape.
37:40To him, all the allegations that were put against him were essentially liars.
37:46Allegations from 22 different women.
37:51Packer assured the court, assured the witnesses, assured the jury, assured the legal teams, assured the judge.
37:59It wasn't him.
38:00Even when it was put to him, we've got that witness, that witness.
38:03We've got all these witnesses, they're all saying you've done this.
38:06Now, come on, Mr. Packer.
38:08We are way beyond, you know, the chances of a mistake being made here.
38:13No, I can assure you, it wasn't me.
38:15So, you're saying everyone got it wrong? Yeah.
38:18It's kind of like my scenario, you know.
38:23Very rarely in life are you ever right and everyone else is wrong.
38:28You know, Ian Packer, it's kind of the opposite way around, you know.
38:35The jury didn't believe his story.
38:38He was found guilty of Emma's murder.
38:41He was also found guilty of 36 different counts against 22 women.
38:47When I look at the, all the information around Emma's murder, and when I put my mind to motive, what is it that drove Packer to kill her in this way?
38:58For me, it's quite simple in that this is about power and control.
39:04It's behaviour that he has demonstrated throughout his whole life.
39:08When you look at his history, he was involved in relationships, domestic relationships, where he displayed this behaviour.
39:16He was violent, and domestic violence stems from that need for power and control.
39:23The way he tried to control Emma's movements, scaring off her clients.
39:28The fact that he was raping someone that was willingly giving him sex, although it was for money.
39:36Why rape her? Power and control.
39:39When he went with Pauline to the deposition site area, and he displayed those same behaviours towards her, again, about power and control.
39:50So, that is what is central to this.
39:55And that's the behaviour he showed after the murder.
39:58Why would he go to the journalist?
40:00It's about power and control.
40:02People are saying stuff about me.
40:04I want to control that narrative around me.
40:07He was sentenced to 36 years as a minimum for the crimes he had committed.
40:13And this was the second longest sentence for anybody in Scottish history to that point.
40:22Receiving the verdict wasn't like I imagined.
40:25I thought we'd be jumping in our seats and high fives and curls and tears.
40:31Well, there was nearly tears.
40:34It was a bit of an anticlimax.
40:35Not because I wanted more, but because I don't feel better because he's in prison.
40:42I feel better that people, his victims, have had justice.
40:46I'm glad they have.
40:48And the family gets something from it.
40:50I'm glad.
40:51If he's kept off the streets, he's stopped, he can't rape, he can't murder, he can't sexually assault people, then yeah, that's all good.
41:01But I personally didn't feel any kind of elation.
41:06There was a great, big, huge, I told you so, and you never listened.
41:15When Ian Packer committed these crimes, he was 31 years old.
41:19By the time he went to prison, he was in his 50s.
41:22He'd lived the best years of his life.
41:25Years that he'd snatched away from Emma and all those other victims in many other ways,
41:31who were left with heroin experiences at his hands.
41:34Dozens of opportunities to put this man behind bars.
41:38Dozens of opportunities to ease the unending hurt that the Caldwell family faced were missed.
41:45He was in prison, but many, many chances to put him there sooner had passed them by.
41:54For the family of Emma, the trauma's never going to go away.
41:57Emma was troubled.
41:59She'd, like so many girls that end up in her situation, it comes from a background of trauma.
42:06And she was really preyed on by the worst type of man.
42:12I just hope that, all those years later, that her mum is now able to at least have some kind of peace,
42:22some kind of closure, that the man who did this to her girl is now probably never going to come out of prison.
42:29Emma was a very, very loving person.
42:33She clearly loved her family.
42:35And they were at the heart of everything she did.
42:38No matter where life took her, her family were always foremost in her thoughts.
42:43And they were both.
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