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00:00A big hello and a very warm welcome to HSBC Mutual Fund presents
00:17Informed Investing Season 2, partnered by ETNOW.
00:21Today, we turn the spotlight to India's heartland,
00:25where investor potential is rising rapidly.
00:27But mutual fund adoption still has a very long road ahead.
00:32From Tier 2 to Tier 5 cities, we're witnessing a shift from traditional savings instruments
00:37like fixed deposits, gold, chit funds to modern, goal-oriented solutions.
00:43With that, our theme for today, the rising market unlocking investor potential
00:48as we explore how emerging cities are transitioning from traditional savings
00:53to informed, goal-based mutual fund investing.
00:57And joining me today is Kailash Kulkarni, CEO, HSBC Mutual Fund,
01:02Ram Kumar Barcha, CEO of Vikalp Finvest,
01:06Ashish Mudani, founder, SLA FinServe,
01:09and Pradeep Kumar Jain, director, PMPK Wealth.
01:13Gentlemen, thank you all of you and welcome to ETNOW.
01:17Kailash, if I could start with you.
01:18We're talking about rising with India.
01:21In fact, that's our channel motto as well, rise with India.
01:24When you talk about India, India is beyond what we see in a Mumbai, in a Delhi, in a Bangalore, right?
01:31There are Tier 2, 3, Tier 5 cities which have aspirational Indians.
01:36Give me a little bit color on what are the penetration levels so far?
01:41What is the kind of jump that you've seen, say, from last five years?
01:45And what could be the exponential reach in the next five to ten years?
01:50So, if I have to give you statistics.
01:53Yes.
01:54We had something called T30 and B30 which we defined the top 30 cities and bottom 30 cities.
02:01In the last four to five years, the number of new clients added are coming from the bottom cities.
02:07The percentage of wealth being created in the bottom 30 cities is outpacing that in the top 10 cities at least.
02:19SIPs is a great story because if you look at overall assets and if you take out the corporate assets and look at pure retail assets,
02:29you know, it's like a 70-30.
02:3170 is in the top 10-15 cities and 30 is from the rest.
02:35But SIPs is like 50-50.
02:3950% only come from the top cities.
02:4150% actually comes from this part of India which we like to call Bharat.
02:46So, that's the big change that we have seen and SIPs, you know, the kind of growth we have seen.
02:5227,000 crores input value per month.
02:55And what's really driving this is awareness and the fact that a lot of distribution partners are seeing wealth getting created in small towns
03:05and they are focusing on that and helping those people grow their wealth.
03:09So, that's, I think, the big difference.
03:11So, we are seeing India as a whole, whichever city, town, area, north, south, east, west, it's like growing as fast.
03:21Earlier, it was like dominated by west.
03:24Today, actually, north outpaces west in terms of growth.
03:28So, you see, there's a lot of change happening.
03:32Youngsters who have started to, started their jobs want to do a little bit of investment and technology has really helped.
03:41But, yes, there's a caution aside that you need good advice or good health and you can't just do it on your own if you don't know this subject.
03:49That's one thing we need to do.
03:50But, it's a very fascinating time to be here because of the growth that we are seeing across port.
03:57Mr. Ramgubar, what has your experience been from where, you know, the industry, from where, more importantly, India was five years back
04:08and the acceptance levels for financial assets from five years back to now?
04:14So, I come from a very small place called Rajkot, which is in Gujarat.
04:20And Rajkot being a place which is predominantly known for IPO markets, wherein, in fact, people breathe equity, we call it over there.
04:30And, secondly, you will be surprised the density of trading terminals in Rajkot perhaps is more than even Ahmedabad.
04:38I have heard.
04:39So, giving you that context, you know, people do understand equities over there.
04:47Rather, people are more adventurous over there because they really want to experience with their own hands, you know, that…
04:53They're not risk averse.
04:54Yeah, not at all risk averse.
04:56And being a Gujarati, you know, to make them understand that someone or some instruments like mutual fund can really make money for you.
05:05So, you do not have to be…
05:08Doing anything.
05:09Anything.
05:09Anything, okay.
05:10So, over the last five years, if I have to say, when the campaign started, mutual fund sahih hai, was in fact a question mark.
05:22But now, people have believed that mutual fund really sahih hai.
05:25But it was switch ka ba ya.
05:27Like you're saying, you know, people were more the trading variety.
05:30The people were more like, let me punch in the dates.
05:33From that, you know, risk on mentality to going for the safe, for the more disciplined style of investing.
05:42When did that switch happen?
05:43So, I think now, in fact, SEBI has come out with reports stating that 89% people lose money, 91% people lose money.
05:53So, this has always been the history.
05:56Now, it is being documented.
05:57Samaj ka ba hai lekin?
05:59Samaj, jab ben paisa khote hai, tabi to samaj jati hai.
06:01So, I think in our place, people have learnt it the hard way.
06:05And then, when they approach people like us, they come and say, look, I've already lost money.
06:11I don't want to discuss more about it.
06:12Now, you please help me that at least I can avoid my future losses.
06:18That is where our role comes in, you know.
06:20Right, absolutely.
06:21Ashish, ek mentality mein farak aagaya hai.
06:24You know, like Ramkumar was saying, that you want to be safe, you don't want to lose money.
06:29From the traditional India, which only went for chit funds, gold, real estate.
06:35Do you see more acceptance towards mutual funds?
06:39Or for that matter, financial assets?
06:41So, you know, let's go back.
06:44You know, we need to go to the why of this.
06:46So, just for you, sometime back, I was in a village.
06:51Which was, this is probably 13 kilometers away from Pakistan.
06:55It's in Rajasthan.
06:56So, I went there for some reason.
06:57And what I found there, the Golgappa walas, the small Kirana walas, they were all accepting ji peh.
07:05Right.
07:05Now, just go back to 2015, just 10 years from now.
07:09And probably, you know, hamei koi bolta hai, aisa india mein us gaon mein sa hooga.
07:13Who would have believed it?
07:14None of us.
07:15Now, as sacred as money, if it is accepted in a digital form, jo ki mele dil ka ikdam karib ka chitsha hai.
07:22Wo aadmi ji pe le ra hai, 70 rupai, 70 rupai, 100 rupai le ra hai.
07:26And they are very comfortable, within themselves, they are comfortable.
07:28Of course.
07:28And I am talking the remote rest of the village, I am talking all.
07:32Right.
07:32So, that's the first point.
07:35Now, moving on to the financialization or the digitalization of assets is just, I guess, is a follow-up activity of probably just a byproduct of it.
07:43And hence, from the money which has now been digitalized to assets being digitalized is no big story.
07:50It probably is bound to happen.
07:51A number of investors and what I actually call it the tsunami of investors is going to come and hit this industry.
07:57You know, as a manufacturer and as a distributor, probably we will be short of, you know, manpower, we will be short of, you know, infrastructure to really cater them.
08:07And that's what is actually would be needed.
08:09See, India has been always a saver.
08:10Only thing is probably we were not great investors.
08:17Now, if you combine this saving habit of ours and combine with the simplicity which mutual fund eventually offers, discipline that offers, that's going to be a rocking combination.
08:28Once these people start accepting it and then they'll start to see the impact of it and when you tell yourself that I have done my daughter's marriage with SIP or a child's education,
08:39that will be where, you know, the curve, the compounding if it's going to just balloon up.
08:45But Pradeer Ji, challenge is now because we know that India is moving towards a cashless economy.
08:52Everyone has a phone, everyone has a GP, a PTM, but what can we do with that investment as a speed?
08:58Yes, no, no.
08:59Yes, no.
09:00Yes, no.
09:01There are a lot of challenges in front of us.
09:03It's easy.
09:04It's easy.
09:05It's easy.
09:06It's easy.
09:07It's easy.
09:08Because, everyone's got to complete the mutual fund industry that started before and now we have reached about 3.3% of the population.
09:21to reach 140 crore country and 5.5 crore has a unique plan that is our investors.
09:31The people of India do not reach the same way.
09:35The reason is that we don't study financial literacy.
09:40The right kind of savings is the right kind of investment.
09:45The right kind of investment is the right kind of investment.
09:49What did we see? What did we do?
09:51What did we do?
09:52We took a policy of life insurance.
09:54We went to the bank and went to the bank.
09:56Or what did we do?
09:58We went to the post office and deposited some tax savings.
10:04Now, how many people who are saving the tax?
10:07In India, the savings is a big challenge.
10:10The investment is a big challenge.
10:13We have wealth.
10:15We have wealth in real estate.
10:18Or ancestral gold.
10:21We have wealth in real estate.
10:23If we want to do that,
10:25The number of 5 crore is in our country.
10:28We are not a country.
10:29It is a country.
10:30We have to reach 30 crore people.
10:32We have to reach 40 crore people.
10:34We will reach this style.
10:36We will reach this way.
10:38And as soon as we are not reaching,
10:40As soon as we are not reaching the market,
10:43We have to reach the capital market.
10:45And we cannot do a lot of industrialization.
10:48We cannot do a lot of funding.
10:50We cannot do a lot of startups.
10:52We cannot do a lot of innovations.
10:53We cannot do a lot of great projects.
10:54And in the country there are great great projects.
10:56We cannot do a lot of capital.
10:58So we have to do a lot of work.
11:00There are a lot of challenges.
11:02We have to break the mindset.
11:04Real estate is not the only investment.
11:07It is a liquid thing.
11:08We cannot consume it.
11:10We cannot make it.
11:11We cannot make it.
11:12We cannot make it.
11:13It is gold.
11:14We cannot sell it.
11:15It is not used.
11:16It is not used.
11:17It is not used.
11:18We cannot make it.
11:19We have to bring prosperity.
11:20We have to increase the lifestyle.
11:22The financials, the savings and investments.
11:25It is good to do a lot of work.
11:28With that, we will take a very short break.
11:30But this special episode of HSBC Mutual Fund presents
11:34Informed Investing Season 2 partnered by ET Now
11:37continues after this very short break.
11:48Welcome back to HSBC Mutual Fund presents Informed Investing Season 2 partnered by ET Now.
12:01What role do you think mutual fund industry can really play?
12:05Well, there's lots that's been done, but lots more that can be done.
12:10To bring just the awareness as to why financial literacy is important
12:15and why you need financial exposure in your investments and savings.
12:20So, you know, I am completely in line with what Pradivji said.
12:23Of course.
12:24Can we do this to 40 crores?
12:26The answer is yes.
12:27But for that, we need to do some radical changes.
12:30Number one, we need to be more vernacular.
12:34If I go to Ramabhai, we should have to talk about in Gudrati.
12:40If I go to Ashish, we should have to have a Rajasthani flavor.
12:45So, we should be multilingual.
12:47We should not be multilingual.
12:49Recently, in some years,
12:51some mutual funds have started taking out literature.
12:56Second, the less jargon you can use, it will be better.
13:01The third thing is that now,
13:04a set of investors have been invested in 10 years,
13:0710 years, 15 years, they have been invested.
13:11And they have good stories to tell.
13:13So, can we take those stories and amplify them across India,
13:17so that more people can join the bandwagon?
13:20I think these are the couple of things that are required.
13:22And most important is what I have seen a big change for the positive,
13:27is that 5, 7 years, 8 years back,
13:30there were very few people who thought distribution can be a career.
13:35Today, more people are comfortable,
13:39because there are a lot of success stories like the gentleman sitting here,
13:42that distribution can be a business career by itself.
13:47I don't need to do any other business.
13:49Earlier, it was, I'll do something else,
13:51and I will also do mutual fund distribution.
13:54So, that's a big change.
13:55It speaks for itself.
13:56And I believe that even the number of distributors will grow substantially
14:00as the clients are growing.
14:02So, you know, I'll just add here,
14:04in a country like size of India,
14:06I think so, both fintech and MFD will have to play a very, very crucial role.
14:11Yeah, they have to co-exist.
14:12Right.
14:13So, because, you know, it might be theoretical to say,
14:15that I'm going to take 500 rupees SIP.
14:17It is not humanly possible.
14:18Maybe my time, money and effort will not be able to come up to that level.
14:22Will not.
14:23I'll be more practical than just be theoretical here.
14:26And that's where the fintech will come.
14:28And the fintech will enable this entire industry to actually get to that village
14:34and that is where gradually when he experiments something
14:43and now he wants to graduate to the next level,
14:45that is where you need to use the role of a distributor
14:48where hand-holding has to be required.
14:49When the amount really goes up,
14:51it starts to make some sense in his life.
14:53That's where, you know, you need a counselling,
14:55you need someone to be emotional counsellor
14:57and all those things.
14:58Because we are dealing in markets.
15:00And there are a lot of emotions when we deal with investments.
15:03So, that is where the role of MFD have to come.
15:05So, a fintech and an MFD are not competitors.
15:08They are actually complementers.
15:09We all have to co-exist.
15:11Co-exist.
15:12That's a huge market.
15:13And number two, as Kailash Ji said, you know,
15:15is about stories.
15:16I have personally shared story of my house help
15:21and how this guy over the last seven years
15:24was able to have eight lakh rupees
15:26whose family has never seen that it's eight lakhs.
15:29And how he actually says
15:30and how he's comfortable about the market.
15:32So, they have hundreds of such examples.
15:35And when these examples will be showcased
15:37to the world at large,
15:39it is that,
15:40if you know the distributor,
15:41mutual fund,
15:42or manufacturer,
15:43that will not impact.
15:45So, that's going to make a lot of sense.
15:48Absolutely.
15:49And that's going to make a lot of sense.
15:50Absolutely.
15:51So, that's the thing that's going to be showcased.
15:53It's going to be showcased in Mumbai.
15:54It's going to be showcased in the English.
15:56It's going to be showcased in the English.
15:57But,
15:58what Kailash Sir said in Varna Kunar,
16:00in our local TV channels,
16:01there is no such a showcase in our local TV channels.
16:03There is no such discussion in our local TV channels.
16:04There is no such discussion.
16:05In fact,
16:06In fact,
16:07now,
16:08on the education side,
16:11lot of initiatives by governments are now taking place.
16:16Like,
16:17in fact,
16:18I would like to share that
16:19they have introduced a financial awareness program
16:21as low as the age standard now.
16:24You can actually get the age standard students certified into a,
16:29wherein they have started the,
16:30A course.
16:31A course wherein.
16:32It's a certificate course wherein they can take
16:35and they introduce the basic concepts of mutual funds,
16:38savings,
16:39velocity of money and all.
16:40And,
16:41so government is taking a lot of steps.
16:43And,
16:44I think now,
16:45even on the investor awareness,
16:47mutual funds sahi hai.
16:49Now,
16:50it looks that now,
16:51from the celebrities to common men,
16:53the drift is slowly happening.
16:55It's picking up,
16:56finally momentum.
16:57But, you know,
16:58what I'm curious about to know is,
17:00how can India become Rajkot?
17:02Money is about emotions like Ashish was saying.
17:05It's about,
17:06you know,
17:07all of us have such a different,
17:09personalized and a close connect to money.
17:11Sometime it's so taboo to discuss money.
17:14It's such a personal thing.
17:17But,
17:18you come from a place where it's in everyone's DNA.
17:21How can we translate that model to India?
17:24I'm not talking trading.
17:25I'm talking investing.
17:26Perfect.
17:27So see,
17:28you should understand one thing that,
17:30when you're coming to a place like Gujarat.
17:32Okay.
17:33Where,
17:34you,
17:35when you're growing up,
17:36on the Diwali or the holy blessings which you get,
17:38are of entrepreneurship.
17:40Wow.
17:41Okay.
17:42At every step or at every stage of life,
17:45I'm reminded.
17:46You grow up,
17:47you're going to have your own shop.
17:49You're going to have your own factory.
17:50You're going to start your own manufacturing.
17:52Business.
17:53Business mentality.
17:54Okay.
17:55Previously,
17:56lot of the wealth used to get consumed between Roti Kapda or Makaan.
17:59Okay.
18:00But now you have a disposable wealth on your hands.
18:03You have a tax free incomes.
18:05Now,
18:06after the recent announcement of like almost 12 lakh rupees.
18:09For a common household,
18:10if two people are working.
18:11It's big.
18:12It's big.
18:13Right.
18:14So now people want answers.
18:15Where should I put this money?
18:17What Padipji said is perfectly right.
18:19So they would have already invested into real estate.
18:22They have already invested into an ancestral goal or bought some gold.
18:26And they are feeling that pinch that this is not growing.
18:29The physical assets are unable to match the pace of financial assets.
18:33And inflation adjusted.
18:34You may be sitting on a negative return.
18:36Negative return.
18:37Yeah.
18:38So now the new generation is questioning.
18:40In fact, the parents also.
18:42Your established saving systems of houses are being questioned.
18:46And when you buy the seller,
18:48you don't buy the seller at the same time.
18:50When you need money.
18:51So now the new generation is ready.
18:53Papa, aap joo kar rahe thai sahi hai.
18:56But that's enough to pay for the needs.
18:58Not for the luxuries.
18:59You know.
19:00But now for the luxury,
19:02I do need such kind of instruments.
19:04Which will outpace the inflation.
19:06And that is where success stories.
19:08I remember people planning for dream holidays.
19:11And people planning for dream cars.
19:13And retirement planning.
19:14Where in fact India,
19:15we don't know the retirement number.
19:17The problem in India is.
19:19Because we do not have a established social security fabric.
19:22Yeah.
19:23In place.
19:24People don't know the retirement number.
19:26And the private sector doesn't even have pension.
19:28So people don't realize after 60 suddenly.
19:30So you'll be surprised in India.
19:32People live poor and they die rich.
19:37Because you don't know that how much I am going to consume.
19:40So in that pretext.
19:42You don't consume.
19:43A person gets retired.
19:44He says now.
19:45Abhi jo tha.
19:46Mere pais.
19:47Ye hi ha.
19:48But jo ba jo po jod ke chala ra hain da.
19:49Is he koi.
19:50Is mein sahi GOZARA karna hai.
19:51Is he mein sahi ghar chala na hai.
19:53So you know.
20:02he was living in 5 crore bank and he was living frugally yeah you know Kailash that's the thing
20:09it's not about just the rich investing in more money as the Gujarati community may be all
20:15businessmen but it's also about you know like Ashish was saying a common man can also invest
20:22someone having 100 rupees in their pocket can also invest and that 100 over a discipline and
20:28a longer time frame can make you a crore patti or whatever you aspire to absolutely I think and all
20:35the three gentlemen out here I know for a fact that they have created these crore patti's from
20:41middle-class individuals because 10 years back they started that habit of discipline investment
20:46in that particular family the other big change which has happened you know and this is something
20:51very few of us talk about is that 10 years back generally most families were single income
20:58or one and a half income yeah why half I'm saying the spouse typically would be a part-time
21:03you know today the children have grown up the children are working so suddenly a family which
21:09was in one and a half income has now become four incomes so the disposable income has gone up
21:14nobody wants to buy a 30 inch tv anymore they want to buy big tv they don't want one tv in the house
21:20they want three tvs in the house everyone should have a tv to themselves so this whole aspiration
21:25and this is not so true for the big cities it's more prevalent in the smaller town because they
21:33consume ott they see the lifestyle they want to live that kind of lifestyle and they are willing to take
21:41those risks unlike in the past so uh ashish wanted to understand from you um where do you think is
21:50the disconnect in tier three and five cities uh do you think it's more about awareness do you think it's
21:57more about the disposable income to invest in hand where is the disconnect i guess uh the knowledge part
22:05is the only disconnect i guess it is not about income uh there is a humongous amount of income
22:11back in tier three tier four tier five cities you know people have money it's about their acceptance
22:17level which which which is rising every day by day it's just a matter of time yeah you see i'll tell you
22:23in 2004 when i started in jaipur jay jaipur jay doesn't never stood for uh jaipur it stood for
22:29jewelry or jameen don't you know you know jay matlab jay jewelry jay matlab jameen new investor
22:36iskala kuch hota hi nahi tha right but today when i talk of there are investors there are people their
22:43families joe apni jameen beechna chaathe hai joe apni jewelry beechna chaathe hai and then they
22:47actually want to come up and say ashish ji now they are not talking terms of maybe 100 200 500
22:51i'm talking those middle class families joe apne 8 crore ka portfolio joe real estate
22:55iskala chaathe hai pehle what what other real mutual fund se nikal ke realism jata ta ab actually
23:00me 90 percent cases me real estate nikal ke mutual fund me a raha hai and that's a trend that i am
23:05seeing on the ground right prateep ji last words um of course we will work on regional languages
23:13challenges thank you thank you jaysay har cheez mein hote hai but uh what do you think could be
23:19ranchi five years from now the person from the small cities acceptance awareness like ashish said
23:26time ke saath sab kuch ho jayega you know that conversion in the mindset will happen
23:31i will say numbers i will say it will be good to start by starting to start by saying that after 5 years
23:36ranchi is sitting at least where he is sitting at least 10 times
23:41the numbers are good to come to the next number 10 times
23:46in the next 5 years
23:49our state
23:50as on date
23:5280 000 crore
23:53asset tender management mutual fund
23:55we have a state
23:55we have a state of 75 lakh crore
23:59we have a 1 percent of our state
24:02today
24:02So the potential of our potential and the ability to reach the next five years in the next five years, how do we reach 20 times, how do we reach 30 times, there is such a gap, such a place in there, we are not working on small places, only 2,000,000 distributors active here, we have to address 140 crores, we have to teach everyone, we have to keep the target, we have to take 40 crores, we have to teach everyone, so 2,000,000 distributors MFD is very sufficient.
24:32I am super confident and super optimistic on the smaller towns and cities in India, there are miles to go but the way the development is happening, the way the number of people are entering this investment part, I am super optimistic and I am very confident that the so called Bharat will surpass the so called India when it comes to India.
25:02investments with such passionate MFDs, I am sure it will, thank you all of you for your time, thank you so much.
25:10On that note, it's a wrap on HSBC Mutual Fund Presents, Informed Investing Season 2, partnered by ETNOW.
25:17Thank you very much for watching.
25:18Mutual Fund Investments are subject to market risks. Read all scheme related documents carefully.
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