- 2 months ago
Sarah McLachlan joins us to talk about her new album, 'Better Broken,' a new documentary on Lilith Fair, and more during our Audacy Check In at the Hard Rock Hotel New York.
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00:00But I'm really excited about going on the road again. I mean, I love playing live. That's super fun for me.
00:05So there will be a tour.
00:06Yeah, absolutely.
00:11Hello and welcome to another Odyssey Check-In live from the Hard Rock Hotel in the heart of New York City.
00:17I'm Race Taylor. Our guest today, as tape and sound are rolling, look at me, so old school.
00:23I said tape. Who uses tape anymore?
00:25I say album.
00:26Do you? Okay, good. Video and sound is rolling. Our guest, the lovely Sarah McLachlan.
00:31Hi.
00:31Welcome to New York City.
00:34Since we are but a stone's throw from Broadway theaters, I'll just say it has been, in Broadway terms,
00:41500, 24,600 minutes times 10 since we last saw you here.
00:47Oh, I know. It's been a hot minute.
00:49Welcome back.
00:50What made now be the time?
00:53Um, just, I had enough material for a new record.
00:58Okay.
00:58I actually, it started with the song Rise.
01:01I wrote that coming out of COVID with a dear friend, Luke Doucette, who I've written with in the past.
01:07And I just felt like, I need to get this song out.
01:10It was kind of this hopeful lament about the world that we are entering into and, and, you know, this idea that we are creating all these divisions and people are so scared and angry.
01:21And I have this sort of hopeful utopian version that, you know, if we just figure out how to get along and recognize that we need each other, um, maybe we'll start making better choices.
01:33Clearly that hasn't happened so far.
01:35Right.
01:35Um, but I just felt like I need to get this song out.
01:38And then it was like, okay, well, I've got enough material.
01:39Let's get in the studio and, um, and start recording.
01:43And that's kind of what happened.
01:44And here we are.
01:45Right.
01:45Finally, a new record.
01:47Exactly.
01:47It is so fantastic to see you to go back in history just a little bit.
01:50The last time we were in the same room together, we knew you were coming up for a visit at our studios just above Madison Square Garden.
01:57But when I walked in that day, there was a baby grand piano in the studio and you gifted us with a version of The River that we play every year.
02:06Oh, I mean, that is such a great song.
02:09That's one of those songs that I, you know, as an artist, I'm like, oh, I wish I wrote that myself.
02:13It's just, it's so beautiful.
02:14Well, it really was a fantastic version.
02:17And, you know, the lines like weak in the knees and the piano work, it hit all the right feels.
02:24Yeah.
02:24That's the Joni.
02:25Joni at her finest.
02:26And I have a feeling you're probably living in that world right now because the brand new album and the brand new song are really kind of emotionally raw, right?
02:36You explore a lot of things that make it difficult to sing these songs nightly.
02:41Well, you know, we don't, I'm 57.
02:43We don't get here unscathed, right?
02:44Right, exactly.
02:45I mean, you know, I have lived this glorious, ridiculous life that music has given me.
02:50But, you know, it's all relative.
02:52We still suffer.
02:53We still have challenges.
02:53And for me, music has always been the way through.
02:56And writing about things that I'm trying to figure out in my life.
03:01Yeah, it's highly charged, very emotional.
03:04But when I sing these songs after the fact, I've been there and I've worked through it.
03:09So it's generally like I'm not in those places.
03:13I'm feeling the sense of relief and release and kind of joy being able to sing these songs after the fact.
03:19Sure.
03:20Our company has an initiative throughout the course of the year based on mental health awareness.
03:26And you've kind of let us right down that road right now as far as how you personally, the tools you use to help get you through those moments.
03:35Obviously, songwriting.
03:37Yeah.
03:37Is there is there meditation?
03:39Is there intense exercise when you're thinking, man, I just need to work through some things, as a kid would say, for my mental?
03:46Yeah.
03:46I mean, what do you do?
03:47I'm really lucky.
03:48I have a lot of things that bring me joy and peace.
03:51I love being in the woods.
03:52I have two dogs, which, you know, I get a lot of unconditional love from, which, you know, everybody should have a dog.
03:58I swear.
03:58Yeah.
03:59It's the best medicine.
04:00Can you just tell us names before we go further?
04:02Oh, Poppy and Tallulah.
04:03Okay.
04:03Tallulah's a rescue.
04:05Fantastic.
04:06And, yeah, so they're such a joy for me.
04:09But, yeah, like walking meditation in the woods.
04:12I spend a lot of time with them hiking, and that's been really comforting.
04:16And, honestly, yeah, having music in my life is ā and just the ability to sit at a piano or a guitar and just play with a band and, you know, and just for the love of it.
04:28That has been such a gift in my life and such a constant that's always brought me comfort.
04:33So, I feel like I'm really, really lucky that I've had those tools in my chest and, you know, the time and the ability to nurture those things.
04:42Sure.
04:43You're leading us down another path that is making our conversation so easy.
04:48You talked about your rescues and the song Angel has been used and actually has helped raise millions more dollars than you ever expected.
04:59Oh, my gosh.
04:59I mean, I think in the first two years it raised over $30 million for the SPCA.
05:04Wow.
05:04Yeah.
05:05I mean, so amazing.
05:06I had no idea.
05:07I don't think any of us had any idea that that song paired with those images, which are, you know, painful and difficult to watch, but it just ā everybody got their wallets out.
05:17Yeah.
05:18And, I mean, you just can't help it but want to, you know, want to help.
05:21It did what it was supposed to do.
05:23It sure did, yeah.
05:23And also probably took you to a place when you were recording or writing that song that you never thought it would go.
05:29I never expected that song to be associated with, you know, with animals, for sure.
05:34But, I mean, it's honestly, it's just ā it's about relief and release and needing something to take you out of the place you're in.
05:42And, again, what better way to do that than the love of an animal?
05:47Right.
05:47Because it's unconditional.
05:48And it helps with loneliness.
05:51It helps with, you know, again, just feeling connected to another living creature.
05:56Yeah.
05:56They're the best.
05:57Come on.
05:57They are.
05:57Way better than people, generally.
05:59Let me say this.
05:59Into the camera.
06:00I wish there were people who were as excited to see me as my dog at the end of the day.
06:05Yeah.
06:05Jumping around like crazy.
06:07Oh, you could be gone for three minutes.
06:09Yeah.
06:10And you come back in and they're like, oh, my God, I missed you so much.
06:13It is absolutely awesome.
06:14It's best, yeah.
06:15So, Better Broken, the brand new song, the title track from the album.
06:20We've had a chance to hear you perform it a couple different times, Kelly and Mark and GMA.
06:25I saw you walk in with a Kelly Clarkson Tumblr.
06:27We're going to have to go in that direction in just a couple minutes.
06:30Oh, yeah, sorry.
06:30No, that's okay.
06:31She's one of our favorites.
06:33And I have a feeling-
06:34I love her.
06:34You know, a conversation with her is so easy.
06:38Well, you know what?
06:38It's kind of like talking to my younger self.
06:41Yeah.
06:41She's got this kind of frenetic energy and she's a goofball and she's unapologetically
06:48herself, which is so delightful.
06:51And important.
06:51And important.
06:53Yeah.
06:53And it was really fun hanging out with her.
06:55Better Broken.
06:56Yes.
06:56Can you tell us the origin of the song?
06:59And I mean, you mentioned earlier writing right out of COVID.
07:02Was this a Zoom session?
07:04Was this all you?
07:05Better Broken was actually a song I wrote 14 years ago with another writer, Matt Morris.
07:12We did a session together for my last record and we didn't finish it.
07:16There was no bridge and I felt it needed something else and it didn't end up on the last record.
07:20So, I just archived it.
07:22And when I was going through material for my new record, I actually, I had six or seven
07:28songs that I brought back that I'd written about a breakup.
07:32And when I revisited them, I was like, oh, I don't want to give this any more energy.
07:37Like, that was so long ago.
07:39So, I realized, oh, crap.
07:40Now, I don't have enough material for a record.
07:42But so, I kind of dug a little deeper and found that song and remembered it and thought,
07:46oh, this is really good.
07:47And I really liked the lyrics and I think we should finish this.
07:51And it did end up being the title track and the album title as well.
07:55Because when you think about what Better Broken means, it's kind of the resilience that, you
08:00know, we have to have as individuals to manage the world.
08:04We have to, we constantly, we get hurt, we fall down, we have to pick ourselves up and
08:09pick up the pieces and rebuild ourselves.
08:12Which we've done numerous times by the time we get to 57 or however old you are.
08:17I mean, I think we're a similar age.
08:19I may have lapped you by a couple of years.
08:21Okay.
08:22The beautiful thing about the song is also on a universal level, it can refer to relationships,
08:27it can refer to yourself, it can refer to your thought process.
08:30Absolutely.
08:31It means so many different things.
08:33Yeah.
08:34Reclamation of self, you know, like coming back into yourself and redefining yourself.
08:39And, you know, as a woman, I'm, you know, I'm now an empty nester, and I have to think
08:44about what the next chapter of my life looks like, not being an active parent.
08:50That's an adjustment.
08:51Yeah.
08:51Well, I'm out here on the road is basically, I'm keeping very busy.
08:54Good.
08:54Good for you.
08:55And I can tell you, you hit a certain age where you measure things.
08:58Is this worth getting off the couch and leaving the house?
09:00Is this worth leaving the country?
09:02Absolutely.
09:02I mean, we have a diminished energy now.
09:05I mean, I still have a ton of energy, but, you know, I'm aware that, you know, I have
09:10to sort of be a little bit more measured in my output, and I just, you know, I get tired.
09:16So, but I'm really excited about going on the road again.
09:19I mean, I love playing live.
09:20That's super fun for me.
09:22So, there will be a tour.
09:23Yeah, absolutely.
09:24Like, I'm completing what I should have done last year.
09:28I had a filming towards Texas' 30th anniversary tour in Canada, but I blew out my voice.
09:33I got a virus.
09:34It was gone for like three months.
09:35I had to cancel the whole tour, which was a real drag, and I actually didn't know whether
09:40I was going to be able to sing again, because I did a bunch of damage, but I went on vocal
09:45rest for three months, which is really hard for me to not talk.
09:48Yeah.
09:49And I got my voice back.
09:50So, I'm redoing that tour in the fall, and then after that, I'm going to be coming and
09:55doing, I think, nine shows in the States.
09:58Great.
09:58Mid to late November, and then planning a big tour in the late spring, early summer.
10:04That is awesome.
10:06And we're going to get to some of your past touring in just a second, but I don't want
10:08to leave Better Broken yet, because as I listen, and as I listen in headphones and pay attention
10:13to the production, there's a little sound.
10:15It sounds so good, but there's a sound that's almost, it's not like wind chimes.
10:21It's almost like a ceramic cup.
10:23It's like a little bit of a tinkling sound, and I don't know if it's a keyboard or a sample.
10:28It's not rain.
10:30Yeah, there's a lot of really interesting sounds, sonically, on this song, and actually
10:37all over the record, and I mean, Will McClellan was the engineer and also co-producing.
10:42He is just magical, and Abe Rounds did drums and also percussion, and he just had this whole
10:49arsenal that he opened up, this little tool kit, and all these beautiful, like, hooves
10:56bells and, you know, African bells and stuff, and we just sampled all that stuff and created
11:02this beautiful, as you said, this sort of sonic, really earthy tone that's gorgeous.
11:09That's a very good word.
11:11Right?
11:11Yeah.
11:11And your voice and a piano go together so well, but then when you start to add all of those
11:17Well, that's the fun.
11:18I mean, everybody's like, oh, I just, I like it when it's just you and the piano, and I'm
11:21like, yeah, I do too, but that gets kind of boring for me.
11:25So, I love the collaboration of being in the studio and bringing other musicians in,
11:31because they add all these different colors to it and textures that just, in my opinion,
11:34elevate it.
11:35A few names I read also involved in the project.
11:38Can we talk about Wendy?
11:39Wendy Melvoin.
11:40Yeah.
11:41Oh, what a gift.
11:42She is such a monster musician.
11:46Right.
11:47You know, she played, she's on Better Broken, she played electric guitar, and it's just that,
11:51you know, you just have this tiny little blues thing.
11:55It's like, oh, that sounds a little princey.
11:57It's like, yeah.
11:58Exactly.
11:59Exactly.
11:59And then she played on-
12:00It's in the DNA.
12:00Yeah.
12:01One long line, she played the bass, she played the drums, because that was like the last week
12:06of session.
12:07Okay.
12:07I really wanted to get that on the record.
12:08Right.
12:09So, we just kind of, she was like, well, we need a drummer.
12:11Well, yeah, you play drums, too.
12:13Okay, let's just do this.
12:14And she was all over it.
12:15And what about Matt?
12:17Matt Chamberlain, another monster musician.
12:21If this is the end, there's a great little story about that.
12:25Tony Berg is amazing at, A, bringing the right musicians in for a particular track, but
12:31also creating sort of a story around how they should view the song.
12:36And he said, you know, I think we need the saddest Salvation Army drum kit for this song.
12:42And Matt went, okay.
12:45I know what you mean.
12:45I know what you mean.
12:46And he came back with this floppy, big bass drum, all this old snare that was really kind
12:54of loosely tuned.
12:55Heads are out of tune.
12:56Heads are out of tune.
12:57Rattles too long.
12:58Rattles, exactly.
12:59And he just created this really kind of, you know, I think about Eeyore when I hear this
13:03drum kit.
13:07Not today.
13:08Exactly.
13:09Just a sort of little bit morose, a little sad, because the song is sad.
13:14And, you know, it's kind of, it's euphoric in one way, but it's kind of like a drunken
13:17Irish jig.
13:19But it's witchy and dark too, because basically we're talking about the possibility that it's
13:24the end of the world.
13:25And we just have to, you know, wow, we screwed it up royally, didn't we?
13:30And now we've come to terms with that's it.
13:34Yeah.
13:35Yeah.
13:36I want to talk about one more collaboration before we dive into Sunday's project.
13:41I have seen, and this only comes to mind because we talked about Matt, who played with Brandy
13:46Carlisle on the last tour, which we saw.
13:48And I know you did a couple different things with Brandy.
13:51Yes.
13:52Yeah.
13:52We did the Joni jam with Brandy.
13:54And then I opened up for her both times at the Gorge.
13:57That was two years ago, I think.
13:58Wow.
13:58So fun.
13:59And I mean, Brandy is such an amazing champion of other artists and of women.
14:03Totally.
14:04She's a queer artist, like, she's just a force.
14:08I don't know.
14:09She really is.
14:09She's got so much energy.
14:10Between Elton and Joni and the other collaborations that she's been involved with.
14:15And her new album, which I think is coming out in October.
14:17So yeah, she's just, I don't know how she has time to do anything.
14:20But I can't look at you across the stage from me and not put you in that same chair,
14:24because look at everything that you did with Lilith Fair, which is now getting its own treatment
14:28on Hulu.
14:29Yeah.
14:29I mean, getting to sit, I mean, obviously I've seen all the iterations of it as we were
14:34editing, but to sit in the audience and see this thing on the big screen, it's kind of
14:40amazing.
14:41And there's a bit of a disconnect for me of like, I know that's me.
14:46I was there.
14:47I witnessed all this stuff.
14:48I participated.
14:48But to have this time capsule of three years of three of the most important years of my
14:55life and my career so succinctly put together in this beautiful piece, what a gift for me.
15:04And how seldom and rare is that for an individual to have an important piece of their life encapsulated
15:11like that.
15:11Right.
15:11And I just felt this immense pride and joy of, you know, getting to have this thing that
15:21I now get to, you know, carry with me.
15:25And it was so powerful.
15:26And also for the world to see this and for young women and young men to see it's like
15:31this, there's a, we can do things a different way.
15:35We can do things a better way if we work together and communicate with each other and lift each
15:40other up instead of tear each other down.
15:42I love that message.
15:43But more so than anything, when we look at the landscape for concerts today and you have
15:48Coachella and you have the Firefly Festival and you have Lollapalooza.
15:52I mean, back then, aside from Lala and maybe Woodstock, was it 94 when that thing happened
15:57with all the mud?
15:58There was not a lot of festival action going on.
16:02It's true.
16:03In 99 when that happened.
16:04Right.
16:04So you were a pioneer to a certain extent on that level as well, championing other artists
16:09and bringing so many people together.
16:11Yeah.
16:12I mean, it was a lot of fun.
16:13And honestly, it was such a simple concept at the beginning.
16:17I didn't want to have all the responsibility of a show on my shoulders, but I thought, well,
16:23let's just get some other women.
16:24Like they're all, there's so many amazing women coming up, getting a ton of radio play,
16:28having success.
16:30And the few festivals that were out there said they were completely male dominated.
16:33And I just said, well, let's just do something ourselves.
16:35Yeah.
16:35And then we were told we couldn't.
16:37Uh-huh.
16:37And that was certainly, you know, it's like, don't tell me I can't do something.
16:40All you need to hear.
16:40Like, come on it.
16:41I'm definitely going to prove you wrong.
16:43All you need to hear.
16:44Two more things.
16:44Let's go back to our friend Kelly Clarkson, who has performed for us and given us some
16:49amazing interview answers as well.
16:52How was that, Chad?
16:53Delightful.
16:54I mean, she's wonderful.
16:57And she was super sweet.
17:00Did you sing together?
17:01And very easy to talk to.
17:02Yeah.
17:02We sang a bunch of songs together.
17:04That's what I was getting to.
17:05What takes me so long to just get to the point and ask the question?
17:07Well, that's the funnest part.
17:09I mean, that was the funnest part of Lilith, getting to perform with all these other amazing
17:12voices with my peers, people I had such respect for.
17:17That was such a joy.
17:19And I did that with Kelly Clarkson the other day.
17:21I did a podcast with Nora Jones yesterday.
17:24That had to be amazing.
17:25And we sang and played together.
17:26And literally, like, we've never worked together before.
17:28We've never sang together.
17:29It's like, let's just go for it.
17:30And we just sang and played.
17:31And just, that's the way it's supposed to be.
17:34Yes.
17:34You know, unfiltered.
17:36100%.
17:36A little rough around the edges.
17:37I agree.
17:38Gorgeous.
17:39One final question before we wrap up with Sarah McLachlan.
17:42We like to ask the guests that we have in this space or in our studio.
17:46In this modern era, everyone is about podcasts and their playlists and everything else.
17:51But we have an intimate connection to radio.
17:56The conversations, the sense of community, the success that it brings artists once all of
18:03a sudden their songs become mainstream like that.
18:06Do you have a specific radio memory?
18:09You as a kid, or you winning tickets, or you seeing an artist, or you being, like, I know
18:14you backstage at the Palace Theater with the guys from Bare Naked Ladies recording God
18:19Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen was a spontaneous moment that once again shows up every holiday season.
18:25Yeah.
18:26No, that's amazing.
18:26Can you share a radio memory with us?
18:28I mean, honestly, the first thing that comes to mind is the very first time I was driving
18:36into Toronto in a taxi cab to do my very first promotional tour, and my song, Vox, came on
18:44the radio in the taxi cab.
18:46Wow.
18:46And I looked at Tony, my publicist at the time, she looked at me, we both started screaming.
18:51I couldn't, I could not believe, like, I'm on the radio.
18:55I have made it.
18:57That was, and I have that moment so, you know, it's so clear in my head.
19:03We got out of the taxi, and he's like, that's you on the radio?
19:07I'm like, yeah, how cool is that?
19:09He's like, can I have a photo with you?
19:11Oh, that is awesome.
19:13Yeah, so that's a beautiful memory.
19:15And the Bare Naked Ladies, you know, that's another great memory.
19:18Just, you know, it's such a great vehicle for getting our music out there to the world.
19:24Yeah, it really has.
19:25You have been such a joy to talk with, and we thank you for your visits past, present,
19:30and then in the future with the coming tour and the release of Better Broken, which is
19:35out now.
19:36And don't forget the Lilith Fair, Building a Mystery, that documentary on Hulu, starting
19:41Sunday, the 21st of September.
19:43Sarah McLaughlin, thank you.
19:44My pleasure.
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