Who is the iPhone Air really for? | The Vergecast

Name: Who is the iPhone Air really for? | The Vergecast
Uploaded: 2025-09-19T20:15:00+00:00
Duration: 1 h 21 min 30 s
Channel: The Verge

00:00:00Welcome to The Verge Cast, the flagship podcast of phones that look like phones.

00:00:04I'm your friend David Pierce, and I am decluttering. Starting to, anyway. So it looks like

00:00:09my wife and I are going to be moving at the end of October, which means that I have now six weeks

00:00:16to get most of the things out of my house. And I would say, like, I'm not a pack rat or like a

00:00:22hoarder person in general, but I do accumulate things. Part of that is just the nature of this

00:00:27job. There's a lot of, like, iPad boxes and random accessories lying around in the basement near me,

00:00:34and a lot of that needs to get shipped, and a lot of that needs to get thrown away.

00:00:37But I just, I need a moment, like a few times a year, to just really be like, okay, time to get

00:00:43rid of most of the things that I own. It's a very productive moment. It's a moment I actually really

00:00:47enjoy. I should probably do it more often. So I have six weeks now to essentially declutter,

00:00:53pack up and move. Sometime in the near future, I suspect I'm going to be doing this podcast from

00:00:59an entirely new place. But that is not what we're here to talk about today, or any of the days for

00:01:04the next six weeks. We're here to talk about Apple. So it's Apple review season. We have lots of new

00:01:09devices. Our team has been testing the new devices. And this is one of the most interesting gadget

00:01:14moments of the year. Not necessarily because the Apple products themselves are so interesting,

00:01:18but because this is a moment to kind of take stock of the whole gadget world. This isn't the end of

00:01:24gadget season. We're about to have MetaConnect. We're about to have some interesting Amazon hardware

00:01:29news, I suspect, in a couple of weeks. There's a lot of stuff left to come. But this is kind of the

00:01:34end of phone season in a certain way. It's also a good time to just take stock of where we are,

00:01:40how Apple is doing, and whether or not any of these gadgets are still moving forward in an

00:01:45interesting way. So that's what we're going to talk about. We're going to have Alison Johnson,

00:01:48V song and Jake Kastronak is on. They've been reviewing the devices. They have lots of thoughts.

00:01:52I don't know anything about how they feel about these devices yet. So hopefully we're going to

00:01:56get some fireworks. All of that is coming up in just a second. But first, I just saw like 12 more

00:02:01things that I need to throw away and post for free on next door. By the way, posting stuff for free

00:02:06on next door. Incredible. This is the first cast. We'll be right back. Welcome back. All right,

00:02:16we got to start with iPhones. We have people who have used the iPhones. Hello, people who have used

00:02:20the iPhones. Alison Johnson's here. Hi, Alison. Hello. Jake Kastronakis is here. Hi, Jake.

00:02:26Hey there. Jake, in two weeks, you have debuted as an Apple Live blogger and you have debuted,

00:02:31I believe, as an iPhone reviewer. I'm trying my best. This is huge for you.

00:02:35Yeah, no, this is great. What a glow up for Jake this year.

00:02:38I know, it's fun. Due to everyone else being unavailable, a lot of people thought really hard

00:02:46and said, I guess Jake is available. And that's how I got the Vergecast hosting gig. That's how

00:02:52I got this iPhone reviewing gig. I mean, honestly, this is the life. So if I have this right, Jake,

00:02:57you reviewed the base iPhone 17. Yes.

00:03:01And Alison, you have somewhere all of the phones, but you've mostly been doing

00:03:05the iPhone air review, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's been my main gig.

00:03:10Okay. So this is good because I actually think, and you should both feel free to tell me I'm wrong

00:03:16and correct me. I think you have the two most interesting phones of the year

00:03:20by a mile, but for wildly different reasons. And we should just get into it. So I think we have to

00:03:27start with the air, which I think is probably the phone about which I have the most questions,

00:03:32if that makes sense. Like it is, it is the wildest of the wild cards of these phones so far. So

00:03:38Alison, you've been using the thing, you've reviewed the thing.

00:03:43Hit me with it. How do you feel? How's the, how's the iPhone air experience been?

00:03:47Boy, I feel, I feel pretty much like I anticipated I would. So I should say that I reviewed the

00:03:56Samsung galaxy S25 edge earlier this year. It's kind of the same idea. It's a phone except thin.

00:04:03Um, and the experience of using that and the iPhone air is, um, you're sort of wowed right at

00:04:12the beginning. You're like, Oh my God, this is so thin. It's so light. I feel like I'm going to break

00:04:16it. You get used to that. You carry it around. And the thing that kind of sticks with you is the

00:04:22weight. Like it'll fit into pockets and little nooks and crannies of the bags I carry that normally

00:04:29I'm like trying to jam a phone into. And every time it does that, I'm like, Oh, that was nice.

00:04:35Um, but, but the thing that kind of sticks with me is just sitting and holding it and scrolling

00:04:41and my hand doesn't get as tired and I don't have such a great weight resting on my pinky. You know,

00:04:49it's, it's, it's the little things. It's hard to describe it and convey it without someone picking

00:04:55it up and holding it. If, if you can do that, I encourage you to. Um, but that's my big takeaway.

00:05:01This is one of the challenges of this phone, right? Is I think like you look at the specs

00:05:05and like, yeah, it's thinner and yeah, it's lighter, but the numbers are relatively small

00:05:12to the extent that it's not like, you know, the, the regular iPhone weighs six pounds and this is

00:05:17suddenly much smaller. Like it's just a slightly smaller iPhone, but you're saying it, the, the

00:05:22differences there do add up to something meaningful.

00:05:25They do. And I, I went through the same thing. You look at the numbers, you're like, is this really

00:05:30going to be that big of a difference? And you pick it up and hold it. You're like, Oh, it really is.

00:05:35And I think it just comes down to, we are so attuned to like every gram that a phone weighs

00:05:42because we carry them and use them all the time. And there's just sort of a, we've settled on like,

00:05:47this is roughly how much a phone weighs. And you pick this one up and you're like, Oh,

00:05:52it's, I don't know. Okay. I do know you have had this experience of like picking up a toddler,

00:05:59like a day after day. And you're like, so used to how heavy they are. Then you pick up a newborn.

00:06:04You're like, Oh my God, I'm going to like toss this child into the air. Same deal. It's like

00:06:12toddlers.

00:06:13Interesting. So this really pours cold water on a theory I've had for a long time, which is that

00:06:17actually what I want Apple to do is make a bigger phone with like bruising battery life. And that is

00:06:24completely indestructible. And actually what you're making me think is maybe the lesson learned here

00:06:28is that that actually isn't a good idea because we're so attuned to it, that if you made it bigger,

00:06:34it would, it wouldn't just feel not better. It would feel like actively worse.

00:06:39Yeah. And I will add to that. So, you know, spoiler alert, battery life is not super great

00:06:45on the air. We sort of anticipated that. It's not a disaster, but there's the MagSafe battery pack

00:06:53that Apple kind of reintroduced like specifically for the air.

00:06:57Jake was very excited about this on the podcast last week. Jake loves a battery pack.

00:07:01I love it. Love making a phone bigger with more accessories.

00:07:04Well, that's the thing. It's like, you can think of it as a modular phone where you're like,

00:07:09this is kind of how it is by itself, but then you slap a battery pack on it. But the thing is,

00:07:16the battery pack itself is light and thin. You put it on the phone and you use it for a minute. I'm like,

00:07:22this is too heavy. Like this is heavier than a pro. It doesn't feel good. And I just want to

00:07:27leave it here until it's charged and then take this thing off of it.

00:07:30Yeah. There's definitely a real, like we keep telling people go like touch it and try it and

00:07:35pick it up. And part of me is like, that might actually be terrible advice because like maybe

00:07:39you shouldn't know how much thinner and lighter your phone could be unless you're prepared to spend

00:07:43the money on the thinner and lighter phone.

00:07:44You know, the reaction I've gotten, it's kind of a negative one at first, I think from people who

00:07:50are not really expecting, like my husband, he's like, I'm going to break this. I don't like that.

00:07:55Like I heard that a couple of times. And then after you've used it a little bit, you're like,

00:07:59okay, okay. I feel better with this. This is, this is nice.

00:08:03Does it feel fragile at all?

00:08:05I wouldn't say it does. Like it feels solid. I did have it like sitting on the ground and my

00:08:14four-year-old was like stomping around the room and I had to like, oh, I hope he doesn't

00:08:20stomp right in the middle of his phone. Like I would not normally think that of a, of a normal

00:08:26phone, but it's, it's something that sort of crossed my mind more often using this, but

00:08:33at no point was I like, this feels so fragile. I'm going to break it.

00:08:39Okay. That's good news. I'm glad to hear that. Cause I think,

00:08:42yeah, one of my worries would be that I would end up treating this thing like a precious object

00:08:47because they kind of want you to think it is a precious object. And that's just not the right

00:08:53relationship to have with your phone. I think like these things are so utilitarian and so ubiquitous

00:08:58that having something you have to baby is actually really annoying in my humble opinion. Um, but you

00:09:04mentioned battery life and I think that the two trade-offs we expected coming into this, we're going

00:09:08to be battery life and camera question mark, because there's only one and we have a lot of

00:09:14thoughts about it. Uh, let's start with battery life. What's the, what's the actual situation like

00:09:20battery life where I've landed is, um, and I've only used this thing for a week, but, uh, it seems to me

00:09:28it's in, if there's a spectrum of like acceptable battery life on a brand new phone, it's in that

00:09:35spectrum. It's on the low end. So depending on the phone, you're, you're trading in.

00:09:43Wait, can I just pause you actually, this is, this is, can we just do a little exercise right now?

00:09:46Okay. I want all three of us to just say out loud what you think minimum acceptable battery life is

00:09:53for a smartphone. Like how often do you need to charge your phone in order for it to be fine?

00:10:00Jake, you go first. So my current phone that I use day to day is a pixel eight. Okay. And if it hits

00:10:0920%, it goes into low power mode and it drives me crazy because it turns the high refresh rate screen

00:10:14off. Everything goes into dark mode. Everything gets chugged, you know, starts slowing down.

00:10:20If it hits 20% and I'm in my day to day, that's when it's too low. So I think bare minimum

00:10:28is a phone that is above 20% power when I go to bed. Okay. I like that. Allison, what's,

00:10:36what do you feel like your number is? Yeah. About the same. Like I, I need to get through my day.

00:10:42And if I see that 20%, you know, it turns red. It gives you a mean notification.

00:10:50Yeah. The iPhone really gets really alarming about it when you get 20%.

00:10:52And every time I look at the phone, you know, you see the, the percentage go down and it's still

00:10:58angry at you. Um, so yeah, I, I agree with that. Okay. It's funny. I actually think we're all

00:11:03almost in exactly the same place. It's really helpful. So I, the reason I ask is because I've

00:11:07been using the iOS 26 betas all summer and like beta software is famously just crushing to phones.

00:11:13So like, I don't hold it against the betas when they crush my phone's battery, but they have.

00:11:18And so I've gotten to the point where now I'm getting to 20% at like four o'clock in the

00:11:24afternoon. And like the difference that that makes in like my psyche is so much more substantial than

00:11:32I am willing to talk about. Like that, that feeling of like, okay, I ha I am, I have to run out to do

00:11:38an errand and there's like an actual non-zero chance. My phone battery is going to be dead before I get

00:11:43home because I have to use CarPlay to get there. I have my grocery list on my phone and I need to get

00:11:47back. So I'm going to like use this device. It's four 30 in the afternoon. And I feel like my phone

00:11:51might be dead before I get home. It's like, that is, that is unacceptable. And so I think I like the,

00:11:57like, I, I should be able to charge it every night and never hit low power mode, I think is a really

00:12:02good, a really good way of, of thinking about it. So does, does the iPhone air hit that? Does it at

00:12:08least hit that threshold? It mostly does. So the, the days when I was a sigh at the beginning of that

00:12:14sense that I don't like at all. It's just testing a battery. There's so many factors and so many

00:12:21things. And especially in a period where you're setting up a phone from scratch and using it, the

00:12:26first two days are just kind of a nightmare. So the days where I went really hard on the battery had

00:12:32like a ton of, you know, more than five hours of screen on time. I was in the back of an Uber for an

00:12:38hour. Um, all this stuff, like I was getting to that 20% by dinnertime and that was stressing me

00:12:47out. And I was like, do I put the battery pack? Do I charge it? Do I leave the battery pack on while

00:12:51I'm making a phone call? Um, I didn't like that when I've had, um, and that was a lot more out and

00:12:59about and travel when I've been at home on wifi and I'm just kind of doing normal stuff. And it's more

00:13:04like of three hours of screen on time day. Um, it's been much more acceptable where it's in the

00:13:13thirties by bedtime. Um, so didn't see the low power mode. I breathe this eye of relief. Um,

00:13:22but, but for a brand new phone that does not feel great, you know, that, and that's the kind of thing

00:13:29that's like, this is the best this battery is going to be. It is not going to ever be any better.

00:13:34And a year from now, um, what's that going to look like? You know?

00:13:39Yeah. Jake, that description of the battery sounds like it does not hit my threshold. Does it hit yours?

00:13:43No, I agree with you because that's exactly where my two-year-old phone is, right? If I push it hard,

00:13:49I'm going to see low power mode on a normal day. It's winding down, but it's fine, but that's fine.

00:13:54It's two years old. You got to worry. I, that, that makes me concerned about how that's going

00:13:59to be in the longterm. Yeah. Yeah. And this is like, if, if you're not going to hold and look

00:14:05at your phone, the hell's the point of buying the fancy one? I don't think, like, I just don't

00:14:10think the iPhone air is like the, the gentle user's iPhone to begin with. So I think it's,

00:14:15it's a tricky, like the, the self-selecting group of people who is going to buy this phone

00:14:20are going to be the people who maybe are hit the hardest by the battery limitations.

00:14:26But to some extent that's physics, right? Like it is what it is. I don't, I don't know how much

00:14:30there actually is to do to solve it. Like there's only so much space inside of the phone.

00:14:35Um, the camera is the other one. What's, what's been your verdict on the camera?

00:14:38The camera I'm a little more okay with, um, with the asterisk that, you know, it is a single

00:14:4548 megapixel camera. Um, very capable in good light. You know, it's hard to buy a phone with

00:14:52bad camera these days. Um, you do get like a two times crop zoom mode. You get, um, the new selfie

00:15:03camera on the front. Very, which is very cool and nice.

00:15:06Does that work by the way? Just random digression. Does it, does the, the thing where it'll do the

00:15:10landscape selfies, it'll do the crop selfies cause it has the square sensor. Like, does that all work

00:15:14as advertised? It does. You need, the thing we learned, um, is that you need at least four

00:15:20people in the front, like moving into the frame and looking at the camera to trigger it where

00:15:26it's going to go landscape mode. Um, which makes me feel. Who takes selfies with that many people?

00:15:32I don't know. I'm like. I don't have that many friends. I don't have that many friends.

00:15:35Like what? Yeah. Kind of rude of Apple. Um, but it is cool. It does some cool stuff. But the,

00:15:43um, the thing I miss on the air is the ultra wide, uh, you know, the Samsung edge has an ultra

00:15:50wide. It is a little bit thicker and bigger. Um, but that's just one of those things you can't like

00:15:57computational photography your way out of. Like if I can't back up in a room, that's it.

00:16:03You're just doing one of these where you're like leaning all the way back. So there's a few

00:16:08situations you get into where I'm like, this is a thousand dollar phone and I can't do this.

00:16:14This doesn't feel quite right. Yeah. Yeah. And, and those, those trade-offs are always easier to

00:16:19stomach when you're paying less money. This is like what we talked about last week with the,

00:16:23the folding and flipping phones. It's like, it's one thing to be like, oh, you get fewer cameras for

00:16:26fewer dollars. That makes sense. But here is the expensive one. It does less stuff. And you're like,

00:16:32well, that doesn't compute quite the same way. And Jake, you've, you've also gotten to use the

00:16:38selfie camera and you, as everyone knows, are the most prone selfie taker at the verge. I would say

00:16:43nonstop. If you put, if you were like, who is taking the pictures of themselves the most often

00:16:47it's Jake and it's not close. I have a ring light set up in every room just in case I need to take

00:16:53some photos. You just have one attached, like with a chest strap at all times. I'm constantly slacking

00:16:57you these photos when I'm cooking dinner. Yeah. How have you found the new selfie cam?

00:17:02Cause it's the same one across all the models, right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's interesting. I,

00:17:07I did side by sides with the 17 and the 16 and quality wise, the selfies look identical,

00:17:14right? Like I, I don't think a lot has changed in the character of the selfies. It really just is

00:17:19this trick where it just goes sideways automatically for you. You don't have to, it, I I'm a little torn.

00:17:25Like on one hand, I, I did not personally find turning my phone sideways to take a landscape selfie

00:17:31all that difficult. On the other hand, selfies by far are shot in portrait, right? People are

00:17:39holding their phone upright and Apple has now made it easier to get everybody in the frame while you're

00:17:45doing that. They have fully dummy proofed the selfie and you know what? It works. So I, I don't think

00:17:52this is going to be necessarily like revolutionary for everybody. I don't think your selfies are going

00:17:55to look better. Is it going to make it slightly easier for a lot of people to take selfies?

00:18:00Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think dummy proof is like the story of the iPhone's camera as we've,

00:18:06you know, talked about many times. It is their whole thing is basically how do we make it harder

00:18:10to take bad pictures, which I think is a good and noble goal, but is maybe not the only goal that

00:18:15a camera manufacturer should have. Yeah. I mean, if, if you're a person who wants to take creative

00:18:20photos or, or, you know, quote unquote great photos, it's, you know, maybe it's not what you want, but

00:18:24I do think, you know, we've been doing selfie cameras for well over a decade now. And this is

00:18:31the first time I can really think of a major phone being like, Hey, maybe we should optimize for the

00:18:37main way that people shoot selfies. And you know what? That makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

00:18:41I buy it. So Allison, just to cover off on the, on the air here, where, where do you land in terms

00:18:46of like, I'm just a person. I have an, I don't know. I have an iPhone 13 that is like on its last

00:18:52legs. Uh, it's time for me to upgrade. And I'm just earnestly trying to decide which iPhone to buy.

00:18:59I'm not like coming to it with any preconceived notions. Who is the air, the right phone for?

00:19:05This is a weird one. So if you have an iPhone 13, I would infer about you that you like to hold on

00:19:14to your phone. You don't want to be going into an Apple store every two years. Be like, I'll take the

00:19:20new iPhone, please. Um, the iPhone here is not for that person. I think the battery is going to run

00:19:27down faster. Um, I, I think you're just going to run up against the limits of what it can do sooner,

00:19:36I think, um, than a pro or maybe even the regular. Um, so this doesn't feel like a phone for a person

00:19:44who wants to kind of set it and forget it. Um, the way I've come around to thinking about it is that

00:19:51it's a little bit of a statement. It's sort of for a person who's like, you know what? Phones are

00:19:58huge. I don't need all that. I don't like all that. I would just rather exist with a smaller,

00:20:04lighter phone. I'm fine having this battery pack on me all the time, or I am always near a power

00:20:13outlet and it's not a problem to just, you know, top off the battery throughout the day. Um, it's

00:20:19kind of a leisurely comfortable way to live with your phone. I think there is a cohort of iPhone

00:20:27mini loving people who are screaming at their headphones right now saying you just described

00:20:33the reason they should have kept making the mini and to all of those people just know that I agree

00:20:37with you. I know. Um, and to, to my iPhone mini, um, friends, this is not a small phone. It is a big

00:20:46phone with small phone energy. It is still like, you still have to reach across the screen. It's

00:20:52lighter. It feels nicer in that way. I can fit it in the front pocket of my jeans, which is how I

00:20:57carry my iPhone mini. Um, but it's just, it's not a small phone. So I'm sorry for everybody.

00:21:04Yeah, that's fair. Big phone with small phone energy is, is actually, I think a very good way

00:21:08to think about it. But yeah, I think it's going to be interesting to see how many people are willing to

00:21:13make the particular sacrifices you have to make. I think, especially on battery life,

00:21:18uh, in order to get the size and shape of the thing. And, uh, I have not yet bought an iPhone

00:21:24this year. There's, there's always still time, but, uh, I need, I need to hold the air before I

00:21:30make a decision on whether it's time to get rid of the 16 and move up. Yeah. All right. So now let's,

00:21:35let's switch gears to you, Jake, because I think this year for the first time in a while,

00:21:41my sense coming out of the event was that the base iPhone was going to be the right iPhone for most

00:21:49people in, in that same, like, I'm just looking to upgrade my phone. I have no preconceived notions.

00:21:54I just want a good iPhone. The 17 looked coming out like it had all the right upgrades. The price

00:22:00was good. It seemed like it was, it was closer to being the one than it has been in a while.

00:22:06How does it feel after testing? Is that, is that still where you land?

00:22:09Oh yeah. I, I tried living with the iPhone 16 for a week before I reviewed the 17 and it was driving me

00:22:17crazy, right? The, the always on screen is such a dramatic essential upgrade. So it's such a critical

00:22:27part of a phone that it's kind of bamboozling that it has not been part of the standard iPhone for so

00:22:34long, right? It debuted on the pro in 2022. And you know, the reason it's remained a pro exclusive

00:22:41until now is because it's, it's a major selling point. And I think it's so major that the past

00:22:46several years, I would have told anybody like, yeah, like the pro is that's so important. You

00:22:51should spend money on the pro. Now there's a $300 price gap and you're getting the best features.

00:22:56You're getting the always on display and it's a high refresh rate screen. It feels like a completely

00:23:01different phone than the iPhone 16. Yeah. It feels like in terms of sort of obviously great things it

00:23:07doesn't do. The only real thing I can think of is the camera, right? Like are there, are there sort

00:23:14of big things you feel like it's still missing? I think that's the story here, right? It's,

00:23:18there's always been like a pretty big gulf between the two. And I think there's also often been

00:23:23essential stuff in the pro line. And now it's right. It's the main camera is a little bit nicer on

00:23:30the pro that that's fair. There's a telephoto camera on the pro. That's cool. I like telephoto.

00:23:36Right. I think that's it, right? Like it has a, it has a cool new redesign. You can't get this one

00:23:40in orange, right? No one is going to know you have a brand new iPhone, which to be clear is not

00:23:46nothing. Like if we've learned one thing in the last seven days, it's that iPhone aesthetics matter

00:23:52an awful lot to people. And the addition of a new color was a big deal. Like especially a loud

00:23:59new color that screams, this is a brand new iPhone that matters to people.

00:24:04I do think there's something there, right? If you, if you look at this phone,

00:24:07it looks the exact same as every iPhone has for the past like six years, right? And so if you're

00:24:14upgrading from an iPhone 11, you're not going to be able to tell the difference. You're going to be

00:24:18like, I replaced my phone with the same phone, which maybe feels like a bummer, even if the changes

00:24:22inside are enormous.

00:24:26Was that the sage one, by the way?

00:24:28It is the sage one.

00:24:29The sage is, it's a great color.

00:24:30For people watching this on YouTube, I hate doing this. Can you just hold it up? This is

00:24:34the one Allison said she was so taken with at the event and I haven't actually seen it.

00:24:38Yeah, yeah. No, let me show you this.

00:24:39It's lovely.

00:24:40How do you feel about the sage?

00:24:41Beautiful. The sage is a fantastic color. It looks, it looks really, really nice. It's

00:24:46one of the best iPhone colors in a long time.

00:24:48It is really nice. It's very, it's like a quiet color, but really nice looking, which I really

00:24:52appreciate. Like it doesn't saturated enough. It's not like, yeah, it's not, it's not a

00:24:57whisper.

00:24:58Yeah. Finally, Apple did colors instead of just like, I always think of Apple's color

00:25:01scheme as they just like put the iPhone down next to a can of paint and then ship it to

00:25:06you. This one, they actually, they painted the things this time. It's very exciting.

00:25:09It looks really good.

00:25:10Yeah.

00:25:11So having used, having used the 17 now, Jake, what's, what are the downsides? What do you

00:25:16not like about the 17?

00:25:18What I, I mean, again, I'm just going to keep going.

00:25:22I'm complaining about notification management on iOS, but like, that's not, no, nobody's

00:25:26here for that. Right. If, if, if you want an iPhone, you like, it's still an iPhone.

00:25:29It's great. No, I truly, the, the, the biggest, um, issues that have, that I had with the iPhone

00:25:3616 have been mitigated, right? They were, they were the screen. Um, I don't think I have

00:25:41major pro like, I don't think there are major flaws. I don't think there are major restrictions

00:25:47that, that are only right. Like, I don't know. Are there some pro res features I can't get?

00:25:53I couldn't even tell you that's fine. Like I, I, I don't need to shoot in pro res. That's

00:25:59fine.

00:25:59Can I just say the fact that that question is really hard to answer is so exciting and such

00:26:03a big deal for the base iPhone, because it's like, Alison, you and I have been going through

00:26:07this for years where it's like, okay, I have, I have a list of things on each side and I have to

00:26:12try and explain to you whether this tiny upgrade to the hardware and this new button and this tiny

00:26:20new thing in the camera, all of that adds up to, you should, you know, spend a few hundred more

00:26:24dollars and get a new phone. We just don't have to do that anymore. Right. Like the, and, and that's

00:26:30the thing with so many of these things, like V and I are going to talk about the watches later,

00:26:33but I think what happened with the watches was they were basically like the, the base one is a

00:26:38great one. And then for a little more money, you get the health stuff. And it's like that, that is a

00:26:44completely understandable decision, but there's nothing missing from the base model. And it feels

00:26:51like the iPhone for the first time in kind of as long as I can remember, there's nothing missing on

00:26:55the base iPhone. Yeah. It, it doesn't feel like you're putting up with something and Apple's being

00:27:01like, well, if you want that, you really got to pay a few extra hundred dollars. Um, Jake,

00:27:07are you like a promotion guy, 120 Hertz? Can you see, you see the difference and it bothers you kind

00:27:14of deal? Yeah, absolutely. And I think like, once you get used to that, it's, it's very hard to go

00:27:19back. It's like, even after a week with the standard model coming from a 120 Hertz display,

00:27:24everything felt so like sluggish. My iPhone 16 is sitting here and it's, it's hearing you and it's

00:27:29really upset by all of this. I just want you to know, you've been hurting the feelings of my still

00:27:33very new iPhone. I, I don't know how you're living with that thing. I seriously, like it's hurting my

00:27:40productivity, not having a screen that's on. Like it really is. I will say, Alison, you and I talked

00:27:46about the always on display last week and a couple of people reached out and are like, Hey, one thing

00:27:50you should try is turning off the wallpaper on the always on display. And I went to turn off the

00:27:57wallpaper on my iPhone 16. And it was like, Oh, right. I don't even have an always on display.

00:28:01Like I hated it so much. I bought a phone that doesn't support it without even realizing.

00:28:07Okay. I want to Jake, where do you stand on the wallpaper dimming on the always on display?

00:28:12I thought I was going to hate it because I have not been using that feature in the past. Um,

00:28:18and actually it's totally fine. It doesn't bother me at all.

00:28:21Yes. Yes. Okay. One more vote for totally fine.

00:28:24This is the worst you get out. You guys are terrible. So on the pro Allison, you've you're

00:28:29not reviewing it. Todd Hazleton is reviewing it and we'll link to that in the show notes,

00:28:32but you've used it a bunch along with it. How does it feel compared to kind of these other

00:28:38phones? Like it is bigger and heavier. It is the more like substantial device. And actually

00:28:42it seems like more so this year because the air is allowed to be the thin one. This one doesn't

00:28:46have to be like, how, how does the pro feel just as a phone to use right now?

00:28:50Yeah. It feels a little like a cheat kind of going between the air and the pro is, is

00:28:57like not the situation most people are going to be in. So the, the pro really did feel kind

00:29:04of just like dense and heavy in a way. Um, I don't think it would have really struck me

00:29:11if I hadn't been using the air so much. Um, the, the switch to the more curved edges, I don't

00:29:20particularly like. So the last, the 16 pro had more straight sides. I feel like that is nicer in

00:29:30my hand. I can grab onto the phone. I don't feel like it's going to go flying. Most people could put

00:29:35a case on their phone. This does not bother them. Uh, it bothers me a tiny bit, but I'm,

00:29:41I'm still just appreciative of the smaller pro being everything that the bigger pro is like the

00:29:50pro max. You get the same telephoto camera, you know, it's just a matter of battery life really

00:29:56in screen size. If that's a thing to you. Um, yeah, the, the little pro kind of remains my,

00:30:03my little pet favorite of, of the bunch. It is a very good phone. I think there are

00:30:10increasingly few people I would recommend it to because it's like, if you want all the things

00:30:14that the pro has, you probably also want more battery and more screen on which to do those

00:30:18things. So I'm like, I'm not sure who the base pro is for, but I also am with you. And that like,

00:30:25there's something about that phone that I just really love. It's like, you are, you are the

00:30:28in-between phone and I love you for that. Yeah. I'm like, just please don't go anywhere.

00:30:34Don't get bigger. Don't disappear. Next year, Apple take that one and make it thin and everything

00:30:39will be fine. Whoa. Mind blown. The iPhone pro air. And I will, I will love that phone and I will

00:30:46come on the show and I will spend a month talking about how stupid the name is. And that is,

00:30:50that is my promise to you. Um, Alison question on the camera thing. Cause right. I think if,

00:30:55if we're looking at it and we're saying the, the single most compelling and in many ways

00:31:00only reason to go from base iPhone to iPhone pro is still about the cameras, you're, you're

00:31:07the most professional photographer of the three of us. How compelling is that case to you right

00:31:12now this year? It's, you know, it does put you in a, in a class of like, you really care

00:31:21about image quality, which is all, all three of us, I think. Um, so on the base iPhone,

00:31:28um, the camera sensor in the main, um, camera is just a little smaller than the one you get

00:31:35on the pros. Um, you do not notice anything about this in good lighting, portrait modes, fine. Um,

00:31:43where I see a difference and I'm the air also has the smaller sensor on the main, um, as the base

00:31:51iPhone is in the two X portraits. So if, if I've lost anybody, then that's fine. Just by the base

00:32:00iPhone, if you know what I mean by the two time portraits and you're screaming like, Oh God,

00:32:06I can't give that up. Like I, I take portrait mode photos constantly, take them of my kid.

00:32:13The two times zoom is just so nice for that. So one X feels too wide. The four X on the pros

00:32:20this year is actually very nice, but sometimes that's too close anyway. Um, but I can see the

00:32:26difference in low light. You know, you're taking a small, uh, a portion of a smaller sensor and you

00:32:31lose detail that the pro hangs on to. So it's, it's in the minutiae. I don't think there's a,

00:32:38a great case for, Oh, you really should spend extra on the pro because two times portraits,

00:32:45but it's, it's there if you go looking for it. Yeah. I think I, I, I find this all

00:32:49really interesting, like from an Apple strategy perspective, but from a, just like I'm a person

00:32:55who wants a phone perspective, really exciting because in many ways, I think this decision

00:32:59of which iPhone to buy is kind of easier than it's been in a long time where it's like,

00:33:04do you just want a really good iPhone by the, by the iPhone 17? If you want the camera by the pro,

00:33:10if you want the like aesthetics by the air, like done and done. Right. And I think there are small

00:33:15trade-offs on each side, but that fact, it is as clean a delineation between the phones as I can

00:33:22remember like in a long time. Yeah. It's very helpful to us. Yeah. People who recommend phones.

00:33:29Travis, our producer just slacked me. The air is an orange though. And it makes a reasonable point,

00:33:34but I do think like it's, it's been so frustrating. I think for the, the typical buyer, right? The

00:33:41thing that says iPhone, right? The plain old iPhone, it should, it should be the essential

00:33:46version of the phone. And I, I truly feel like that has not been the case in recent years. And this

00:33:51year it is so clearly the case, right? Like I, I don't think you're missing anything major. I think

00:33:57you'll have a fantastic phone for a while to go. And, you know, I don't know what's coming next

00:34:01for the pro, but it doesn't feel like there's any obvious thing at the moment that I don't know.

00:34:07You have to be like, well, that's too bad, right? You don't get a vapor chamber cooling. Ah,

00:34:11Oh no. Whatever will I do? Uh, yeah, I don't have a vapor chamber. I can't vape with it. Like,

00:34:17what are we even doing here? If they build a vape into the pro,

00:34:21Oh no. That's terrible for America, but they will sell a lot of phones.

00:34:25Indeed. Um, all right. So before I let you guys go, we got a hotline question that the three of

00:34:30us are going to answer together. And it is, it caused me to think more than I thought it would.

00:34:35So here, let me just play it. And then we're going to talk about it.

00:34:38You know what? I feel like anybody who has an iPhone air is now susceptible to losing their

00:34:43phone in the couch. It's going to be the most losable phone ever.

00:34:48Okay. So here, two questions. A, Alison, true or false? Is this, is this a very losable phone?

00:34:54Oh, true. Yeah. I was on a plane, um, and had the iPhone air. I usually put it in my pocket and it

00:35:02has happened that the phone will kind of fall out when I'm moving around. And then, then you're in

00:35:07that situation where you're like, Oh God, it's in the seat somewhere. They say, don't adjust your

00:35:11seat. Cause you're going to start a fire with the battery or something like that. I had almost a full

00:35:16panic attack because I thought it had fallen out of my pocket and it, it will just slip right in

00:35:22between the seats. And then you got to call it. Long story short, I just, I put it in my bag and

00:35:28I forgot it was in my bag, but that's a long way of saying, yes, this feels like a phone that you

00:35:34will lose in the couch. It is a, it is a losable phone, even maybe not in the ways that you think

00:35:39it's going to be a losable phone. Yes. Uh, okay. And then my other question is, does everyone else

00:35:46almost lose their phone all the time? Because I almost lose my phone all the time. Like, like

00:35:51yesterday I was sitting down in the car, uh, phone just slipped out of my pocket without even

00:35:57noticing and fell like in the side between the seat and the car door. And I spent like half the

00:36:05afternoon being like, Oh no, I've lost my phone. It's gone forever. Uh, I have also lost my phone

00:36:09in couch cushions. I have also just randomly left my phone places that it doesn't make sense to leave

00:36:13your phone. Like, is this like a specific medical condition that I have or does everyone almost lose

00:36:18their phone all the time? I, if I'm going to lose it, it is in that exact situation in the car. Um,

00:36:24cause it will just go in between all the weird inner workings of the seat and the console. Um,

00:36:30and I will spend a lot of time like fishing it out from the bottom of the car where there's a lot of

00:36:35goldfish crumbs. Um, but I've trained myself, I think to leave my phone in very specific places.

00:36:44So if I go in the kitchen, there's like a place I put it down in the kitchen. If I go in the TV

00:36:50room and when I, when I have that moment of, Oh, I lost my phone. I don't remember where it is. I go

00:36:57to one of those spots and it's usually there, but I have had to like actively do that. Otherwise I

00:37:04would lose my phone all the time. Okay. That's not just me. Jake is sitting here. Like I've never lost

00:37:08a phone in history. I, I used to be like really, really good at this because I just always just like

00:37:13put it straight back in my pocket when I was done with it. And now phones got bigger and these like

00:37:18silicone cases are really popular. And as they get older, they get kind of like funky. They like

00:37:23don't slip into pockets very well. And so now I'm just, I'm just like stick it wherever. It's like,

00:37:29I don't know. It could be anywhere. It's fine. If it gets lost, it was meant to be.

00:37:33Hands down. The best feature of the Apple watch is the thing where it will make my phone make noise

00:37:38so that I can find it, which I do, uh, more often than I'm proud of. All right. We need to take a

00:37:43break. Uh, Alison and Jake, thank you both for doing this. Uh, good luck being just in the crosshairs

00:37:51of our commenters for the foreseeable future. We got to take a break. We'll be right back.

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00:40:04Alright, we're back. V-Song is here. Hi, V.

00:40:07Hi.

00:40:08From some other hotel room somewhere in America, this is just what you do here.

00:40:12I live on planes and hotels.

00:40:15You really have, like, spent... How many hours have you spent at your home in the last 10 days?

00:40:20Hmm, not many. Yeah. Maybe... 36? Yeah. That's probably how many in the last 10 days.

00:40:29That's good stuff. So you're... If I have my schedule correct here, you're currently traveling

00:40:34for MetaConnect. Yes, I am. What's happening at MetaConnect? You can read the leaks at

00:40:40TheVerge.com. Yeah, gosh, what could it be?

00:40:44What could it be? Mark Zuckerberg in his many glasses.

00:40:46What could it possibly be?

00:40:51Exactly. Alright, well, we'll come back to that another time. I actually think there's

00:40:54a chance MetaConnect is, like, sneaky fascinating this year. But we'll come back to that another

00:40:58time. You are also deep in the throes of oh, so many Apple reviews.

00:41:04So many.

00:41:05And I want to talk about AirPods for, like, two seconds, because I think that is all that

00:41:11is required to more or less tell the story of AirPods. And, oh, you're wearing them.

00:41:14Okay, so let's start with the wearing them. Because I would say that your feeling and the

00:41:20general consensus on the AirPods Pro 3 is that they are terrific. We came out of the event

00:41:25being like, this is the most straightforwardly great upgrade. And it seems to have been pretty

00:41:29much exactly that.

00:41:30Basically, Apple went and tripled down on a good thing and made everything that you like

00:41:35about the AirPods better and then said, what do you not like about the AirPods? Let's see

00:41:39if we can fix that, too. And, you know, by and large, the largest, the most common complaint

00:41:45that I've ever heard about AirPods from people who are tech journalists, from people who are

00:41:49normal people, from just anyone, is the fit, right? Because either you are blessed with

00:41:55ears that the AirPods fit into, and that's true across the regular AirPods range or the

00:41:59Pro range, or you're just not. You're just not blessed with the ear canal for an

00:42:05AirPod. And, you know, you take the AirPods Pro 3 out of the case at a first glance,

00:42:09and it just looks the same, right? But then I happen to have my own personal pair of the

00:42:13AirPods Pro 2. You take that out of the case and go like, oh, oh, oh, oh. The shape is

00:42:19definitely different. The AirPods Pro 2 are flatter. These are more angled. So when you look at them

00:42:24side to side and you compare them from every single angle, and we have some comparison photos in my

00:42:29review, you can just tell that they're much more angled and designed to fit in better. One thing that you

00:42:34can do is you can kind of twist to adjust the fit a little bit with these. And you could do that

00:42:41with the AirPods Pro 2, but, you know, if you twist it just a little too far, it's going to pop out.

00:42:45This, you can actually feel it, at least with my ear shape, you can feel it get more secure,

00:42:52the seal tightening, and not in an uncomfortable way.

00:42:55That's a pretty normal thing for these kind of in-ear things that you kind of, they teach you to sort

00:42:59of put it in and turn it. And that's actually how you get that seal. But AirPods, my experience has

00:43:04never been, are particularly suited to that. So it's good that they've leaned into that.

00:43:08No. So they've leaned into that. I went on a run with these. And during that run, I went,

00:43:12uh, uh, trying to shake them out of my ear. And they didn't shake out. So, you know, I really do

00:43:18think that if you've had trouble with fit before, that you should go to an Apple store or bug your

00:43:23friend who has them to see and try them out before you commit to buying them. Because every ear shape

00:43:29is unique. And I've, I've never had a major problem with AirPods fit. So I'm not surprised that I also

00:43:36don't have a problem here. But if you've had a problem in the past, um, I would recommend trying,

00:43:42trying them out before getting your hopes up too high. I'm just saying as someone who hasn't had that

00:43:49issue, they still fit me better. So like there it's like, I, even I saw an improvement. So I

00:43:55think a lot of people will see an improvement. That's good news. So it seems like, yeah, the,

00:44:00the, the existence of more sizes of tips, plus the little subtle design changes, both feel like

00:44:05wins. The thing that seems to be somewhat controversial is the actual material of the

00:44:09things themselves. They're not, they're not foam, but they're not, not foam. Like what,

00:44:14what are these things you're sticking in your ears?

00:44:16So I saw Dan Seifert, uh, right after the Apple event and Dan is, is famously, if you know him,

00:44:22he has had problems with earbuds. Um, and so he uses the real traditional foam tip and he's like,

00:44:27show me these things and show me that foam tip. And I showed him the tip and he goes,

00:44:31that's not a foam tip. And he's correct. And he's kind of correct. It's, it's not what you would

00:44:36think a traditional foam tip is, you know, foam tip, it's foam. It expands in your ear and it gets

00:44:42disgusting if you sweat in them. So these to the naked eye are going to look exactly the same as

00:44:48the silicone tips that you're used to from the regular, uh, AirPods pro. The difference is,

00:44:52is in the very like, um, and hopefully this doesn't mess up anything in the very, um, front part right

00:44:57here, that's where they've infused some foam. I see. And the reason why they, they've done that

00:45:03is that's the part that will expand for the more secure fit. The rest of it is silicone so that when

00:45:08you sweat, uh, it doesn't get disgusting. And so that it's easier to clean. That's the philosophy

00:45:14that I was told when, um, I was at Apple park on the day of the event. And so, you know,

00:45:21phones there just don't, don't think of it as like a traditional foam tip.

00:45:26Do you notice them? Do they feel any different in your ears because of the material change?

00:45:31Absolutely not. Like they just feel like I, the, the fit feels more secure. It could be that some of

00:45:36that is this foam infused tip, but just looking at them, I was like, this looks the same. Like they

00:45:42won't fit. Like you can't interchange the tips between the old ones and the new ones. So there

00:45:47is a difference there. It's just like, I put them in my ears and they stay. That's interesting. I

00:45:54think the thing that I'm most curious about with these is like, you know, you mentioned everybody's

00:45:58ears are different. My thing is my ears start to get like sore after wearing the sort of in-ear

00:46:05headphones for too long. Uh, it's one of the reasons I've become a huge fan of the, the shocks

00:46:10over the, the bone conduction. You know, I love those too. Yeah, I do. And there's just something

00:46:15about them that is like, because they're not blocking that ear canal, there's just, there's

00:46:19some, it's some combination of like the buildup of pressure that I feel in my head from having them

00:46:23blocked along with just the physical toll of them pressing against my ear canal. Uh, if I wear them

00:46:30like for hours and hours, like on a cross country flight or something, I will come off and like feel

00:46:34physical pain as I take them out. And, uh, I've seen mixed things on that front in this one. Some

00:46:40people are like, they block sound better, but as a result, they're actually, the seal is better,

00:46:46which means they're going to hurt more. Uh, but so I think Apple just like continues to poke at this.

00:46:52And this is another reason I'm excited about the idea of there being five tip sizes is like,

00:46:55what I normally do is just go to the smallest tip size and I will sacrifice a little bit of the,

00:47:00um, noise cancellation in order to not have them hurt over time. So the idea that I can go even

00:47:05smaller here, uh, actually seems potentially like it'll solve that problem for me. Yeah. So, uh, here's

00:47:10what I can say from my testing. I wore them on two cross country flights now, um, for several hours at

00:47:16a time and they were pretty comfortable for me. Um, I did wear, I've worn these an obscene amount over the

00:47:22last few days to test them. Um, so when I was wearing them for a really, really long time,

00:47:27like I want to say seven hours at a time at one, at one point while I was writing my review. Cause

00:47:34I was like, Oh, let me, let me check this. Let me verify like my notes and whatnot. Um, I did have a

00:47:40little bit of like itchiness on the inside, but that's just kind of similar to any AirPods, but by and

00:47:45large, I found them quite comfortable. I didn't experience as much pressure buildup, although there were

00:47:51times that I did. And usually I would just take them out, have a little break, put them back in.

00:47:56So I think if that's something you're sensitive to, you're going to play around with it. I don't

00:48:01think it's going to go away completely, but it is improved. Okay. I'm excited to try them. These

00:48:06were the one thing I like jumped to buy immediately because I'm like, it's, it's been a while. I still

00:48:11have the regular AirPods with the lightning port. And it's like this, this feels like the thing to

00:48:16upgrade for. So I'm excited about that. Mostly I want to talk about the watch. Cause I think

00:48:19the watch situation seems much more complicated. And I would say what you found so far is that our,

00:48:25our suspicions from last week have been confirmed, which is that the watch SE3 is the watch most people

00:48:32should buy. Tell me why you landed there. It's the star. It has the biggest upgrade from the last

00:48:38generation to the next. So the difference between it and a series watch is almost non-existent depending

00:48:46on what are the things that you care about. And the big thing that I was going to say is

00:48:51the, was the major thing for the, um, series 11 watch was the improvement in battery. And that

00:48:56was quite modest in my testing so far. Cause you were excited about that. When we saw the

00:49:00announcements, the jump from 18 hours of rated battery life to 24 hours of rated battery life

00:49:04seems like, and like you said last week, Apple tends to underestimate those things. So like a six

00:49:09hour jump, which is what, like a 33% leap in battery life could be a big deal. It's, it was a bummer

00:49:14to hear that it wasn't a big deal. It's more like the 24 hour battery life estimate is now more

00:49:20accurate. Um, like the 18 hour battery life estimate was, I think inaccurate. It was quite low. And now

00:49:29I think 24 hours is accurate, but still a little low, just not very low. So I was getting around,

00:49:37I mean, it's very hard to fully tell you what the battery life expectation is going to be

00:49:42on the amount of time I've had testing three watches simultaneously on two wrists. And you

00:49:48know, there's there it's, it's easier and I'll have a much better idea once I get to just wear

00:49:52one watch at a time for a longer period of a time, instead of like switching between watches and

00:49:57wearing two watches on same wrist, which means it's switching between phones. So take what I say

00:50:02as my normal use case that everyone does and is not like my specific thing. So I'm going to say to

00:50:09like, take this as my first, um, crack at the battery testing, which I, you know, I have my whole

00:50:16process down to a pat. I account for these things. Um, my first 24, 48 hours with the series 11, I got

00:50:24maybe about 28 to 30 hours on a single charge, which is better. It's better than 24 hours. But is it

00:50:31the 36 to 40 hours that I think people were hoping for? No, it's not. So if you're on a series nine, if

00:50:39you're on a series 10, what I think you're going to find is that you don't have to worry quite as much. If

00:50:43you go to bed with less than ideal battery life, you'll wake up and you'll have like 3% left, that

00:50:49sort of thing. And you can hot stick it on a charger. It goes zero to 80 in about 30 minutes.

00:50:54So, you know, it's, it's even more true that if you just stick it on a charger while you're getting

00:50:59it ready in the morning, you're good. You're good to go. You don't really have to think about it as

00:51:03much, but you know, that I can already hear the Garmin users going like, well, I measure battery

00:51:10life, not in hours, but in weeks and months. And this is, we're thrilled for you. We really are.

00:51:15Yeah. I love that for you guys. You guys are not going to be impressed by this battery life change,

00:51:20but you know, if you are coming from a series five, a series six, and I'm sure if you've had

00:51:26those watches, the battery has decorated since in a long time and you jump to this, you're going to

00:51:31be pleased with the battery life that's available. But is it exciting? Is it exciting for me having

00:51:38worn the new iteration year after year? I'm like, oh, it's, it's a little bit better than the series 10.

00:51:44Well, I think the thing I think is interesting about this is my, my sense from talking to people

00:51:48over the years is that the idea of upgrading your watch every year is essentially non-existent.

00:51:55Like I, I know, I know a lot of people who are like, I get every other phone because I like phones

00:51:59and want the new stuff or whatever. I know people get every phone because they're like, I like the

00:52:02new stuff. I don't know anyone who is like, I get every watch every year. That's just like you wear

00:52:07your watch until it doesn't work anymore. And then you get a new watch. And so I think

00:52:10that makes this sort of iterative upgrade cadence to me, even more acceptable on the watch than on

00:52:17some of these other devices. Yeah. Cause, um, when you are, when it is time for you to upgrade all of

00:52:21these small changes, they do add up to something big, but I really do think that the SE3 that's just

00:52:29on every single level. If you have an SE2 on every single level, except bezels, this has been

00:52:36improved. Uh, the bezels are still bezels, but if you've been on the SE, you don't know what you're

00:52:41missing with non-bezels. So it's, it's a really great, um, thing. And the only thing that's new

00:52:48that I think the SE3 is not getting is the hypertension notifications, which I can't really talk about

00:52:54because it rolled out yesterday. And so I am testing that in real time with everybody else who

00:52:59got the watchOS 26 update, which to my point as to why the, uh, series 11 feels like it's the

00:53:05middle child of Apple watches is that everything that's new and cool that has come to this watch

00:53:11is not exclusive to this watch. Either the ultra three has it or the SE3 has it, or the Apple watch

00:53:18series nine, 10 and ultra two also have it. So you're just kind of like, eh, cause the SE3,

00:53:25it's got an always on display. It has the pinchy pinch and the flippy flip. So, um, it has those

00:53:31gestures and those were the two things that I really felt were kind of deal breakers for me

00:53:36on an SE versus a series while they have them. Yeah. And to be clear, the thing where a bunch

00:53:41of old watches are also getting all the new features, unbelievably good news. This is, this

00:53:45is great. It just means you probably most, most people with recent watches probably don't need the

00:53:50new one, but wait, in terms of the new things on the SE, I want you to rank four features for me

00:53:56in terms of how big a deal they are. Uh, the four features are fast charging, the always on display

00:54:035g and the battery life improvements. Uh, I, I have a ranking in my head of how much I care about each

00:54:10of those things, but I want you to rank them for me. Fast charging, always on display, 5g battery life,

00:54:14always on display. Number one. Okay. Uh, what were the other three? So we're always on display.

00:54:21Number one, 5g at the very bottom and the other two were always on, uh, fast charging and battery

00:54:27life. Fast charging is number two. And then battery life is number three because the battery life is

00:54:34still 18 hours. It's pretty, it's a pretty good 18 hours. I must say. So I was on a 13 hour flight.

00:54:39I started that flight with maybe about 87% battery and I got home and it was at 27. So, um, or not a 13

00:54:48hour flight, but cause at the time change difference from when I got onto the, to the, to the flight and,

00:54:53and it was, it was, it went from 87 to 27. And I think that's pretty great. Stuck it on the charger

00:55:02for 10 minutes, went back up to 37. Um, you know, it's, it's, it's fine. You're going to have to baby

00:55:08it a bit more. Uh, what happens there is that it's, it's just doesn't have as much capacity for,

00:55:14for the battery life, but because you have fast charging, the sting is taken out because the last

00:55:20SE didn't have fast charging. Usually we had to sit there, wait for your watch to charge. And that took

00:55:24a while. The fast charging is not as fast as on the SE, uh, as on the series 11. It's I think zero to

00:55:3280 and 45 minutes as opposed to zero to 80 and 30. So you do have to wait a bit longer,

00:55:37but it's, it's not so bad really. It's just kind of like, um, now that the fast charging is there,

00:55:44you don't mind the lesser capacity quite as much. Whereas if you don't have the capacity and you

00:55:51don't have fast charging, you're just sitting there watching at that wall, looking at that

00:55:54watch and going faster. Yes. A hundred percent. And it is, it is the thing there is, there is a

00:55:59amount of time. And I think it's probably an hour where if my watch takes more than an hour to

00:56:05charge, there's a strong chance. I'm just going to forget about it. This literally happened to me

00:56:09yesterday. Uh, I, I, my watch was almost dead. I put it down to charge on my incredibly slow

00:56:16charger that I've complained about on the show before. Uh, just flatly forgot about it for 24

00:56:21hours. Just didn't put it on. And it's like, that's, that's the thing that Apple can't have

00:56:26happened. Right. It's like these, these things can't just like die in a drawer somewhere or else

00:56:29it all falls apart. So I agree. I would, I would rank them the same way. And I actually think

00:56:33seeing what you saw about the fast charging, which is that it's not like, you know, blistering,

00:56:38but it is like, put it down while you're making coffee in the morning and it is going to meaningfully

00:56:44charge enough to potentially get you through the rest of the day. Like that's pretty exciting.

00:56:48That goes a long way for me. It goes a huge way. So it's really a question of whether do you want,

00:56:53uh, a bigger screen with smaller bezels and the whole entire health suite of features.

00:56:59Or if you're like, you can keep that. I'm going to save $150 and the bezels are, I'll just use one

00:57:08of those black backgrounds. So I don't notice them at all. Like that's sort of like, what is the

00:57:12trade-off there for you? And, um, the Verge cast listeners, I suspect will be like, I will pay for

00:57:18the little bit of polish, madam. Uh, but I think the average person, the, the vast majority of

00:57:25people, people who have not been totally, uh, sold by the smartwatch idea, they're going to look at

00:57:30the SE3 and go like, whatever, I'll save 120 to 150, depending on the size that you want.

00:57:36And my recommendation actually for people who are bothered by bezels is to go up to the 44,

00:57:41uh, millimeter size on the SE3, because if you compare the active display area, it's similar

00:57:48to the 42 millimeter series 11. So if you think about it that way and you trick yourself into

00:57:54using the black, uh, backgrounds a bit more, you're really not going to notice that stuff

00:57:59quite as much. Yeah. Yeah. I've, I've come to think of it as like, I think looking at it now,

00:58:05Apple just got the naming scheme of the watch wrong that actually what it is, is, is cause the SE

00:58:12typically like when you think about the iPhone SE, it refers to something less, right? It is not the

00:58:17base model. It is a specific thing for a specific group of people. And even the watch SE was that for

00:58:23a minute. It was a very much like Fisher price, my first smartwatch kind of smartwatch. Um, it's not

00:58:27that anymore. So now I think about it as like the SE is the watch, the series is the pro and the ultra

00:58:32is the ultra. And that like that frames it better for me. And it's like, this is the, the SE is the

00:58:38mainstream watch in the way that the iPhone 17 is the mainstream iPhone. And then if you want it to

00:58:45do more sort of niche stuff, you scale up. And if you want it to do more niche stuff, you scale up

00:58:49again. But like most people who just like want a smartwatch and don't have further questions about

00:58:55how they're going to use it. The SE is going to be enough, right? Yes. He's going to be more than

00:59:01enough because what are the health features really at this point in time that you are going to be

00:59:06missing out on? Because the SE3, they added the wrist temperature sensor. You are getting the vast

00:59:11majority of the health features on there. So what you're, you're missing is the EKGs. And I want to

00:59:16be clear with the EKGs, you're only missing then spot checks for AFib detection because the irregular

00:59:24heart rhythm notifications, which I call the passive, uh, AFib like checking. So you'll get a notification

00:59:30and be like, we've detected some irregular heart rhythm notification. That's on the SE3 now. So if

00:59:35you're worried about AFib that you can get the passive notifications via the, uh, the SE3. So

00:59:41it's just the spot checking with the EKG blood oxygen, which was missing on all the watches sold

00:59:46in the U S for the last 18 months until recently. So really I don't, I know there are some people who

00:59:52have reached out to me being like, no, I really care about that feature. And I believe that is true for

00:59:56a certain subsect of people, but for the vast majority of people, you didn't know it was there

01:00:01and you didn't miss it. And the hypertension notifications, which I cannot responsibly

01:00:06talk about because I have only used it for one night or like one day. Uh, but you know,

01:00:12I think that could be a very useful screening tool. But at the same time, if you are on the relatively

01:00:18younger side, if you're not really worried about hypertension at this point in your life, again,

01:00:22it's very possible that you will never ever interact with that feature. So are you going

01:00:29to miss it? I don't think so. If you're older, that might be a thing that you want to keep a track

01:00:34of. If you have a history, a family history of blood pressure, high blood pressure, that might be a

01:00:39thing that is a little bit of peace of mind or, or maybe not peace of mind, a health anxiety that you

01:00:45want to sign up for. Sure. But sleep apnea notifications, um, sleep score, which is the new

01:00:50thing. All of that stuff is coming to the SE3. So really the three things that I mentioned are the

01:00:55only health features as of this point in time that you're going to be missing out on. And you know,

01:01:00the SE doesn't get updated every single year. It could be that for the series 12, they're like,

01:01:04we did it guys. We figured out, um, non-invasive blood glucose monitoring. I will eat my shoe if that

01:01:10happens in a year, but you know, they could say that that's the thing. And then you're like, ah,

01:01:14I've got an SE3, but that's not a right now problem. And if you're thinking about upgrading right now,

01:01:20I just laid it out for you. So yeah. Right. And yeah, I would say there is, uh, very little

01:01:25evidence to suggest that there is some gigantic groundbreaking thing coming next year. This is,

01:01:30this is a thing everybody says every year. And it's like, just if you want the thing now,

01:01:33just buy the thing now. It's going to be fine. It's going to be fine. Um, all right. So before I

01:01:37let you go, I do just kind of want to walk up the line of watches here because you've, you've used

01:01:41them all. You have, I think a sense of like, what is for who. And so if we start with the,

01:01:47the SE3, which I think is like the watch for most people, it is, it is the one you should start by

01:01:53looking at, uh, you, you mentioned the health features. What else is there to sell me on the

01:02:00series 11? It's $150 more expensive. It goes from two 49 to three 99. What am I getting that I'm

01:02:07paying for bigger screen? So if like me, you have garbage eyeballs and, uh, you would really

01:02:13appreciate the larger space that's there. If you are someone who's really like, ah, I'm going to

01:02:19stay up all night tossing and turning about bezels. That's the, uh, series 11 as well. It

01:02:26is slightly thinner, like one millimeter thinner. If you're the princess and the pea mattress type,

01:02:32maybe that'll be a thing that you notice. If you are buying this for your parents and for their

01:02:37health, and you really want to show that you love your parents and that, uh, you want them to

01:02:42have the full suite of health detection features and have that a future proof sort of thing. That's

01:02:47that I think the series 11 is going to be a good choice for you. Um, that's about it. Oh, and if,

01:02:54if you really want when you're using, um, the messaging feature, if you really want a little

01:03:00keyboard that is not, uh, accommodated at all on the SE3, uh, you're going to need the series 11 for

01:03:07that. I don't know anyone who is super invested in the key. I mostly call this out because I had

01:03:15one person ask me online is like, is the keyboard there? And I was like, I'll find out for you one

01:03:19person. But, um, no, the keyboard is not there on the SE3. So if you really love that keyboard and

01:03:24typing via a keyboard on your Apple watch, that is a reason to get the series 11.

01:03:31And honestly, if, if you are that person, a God bless and be, um, I would like to know more about

01:03:37you. Uh, I will say the, the tap backs I've the using a watch made me such a like religious user

01:03:43of tap backs. It's perfect. It is the perfect messaging feature for a smartwatch. And I love

01:03:49it very much. Um, okay. So then we jumped to the ultra, which you're, you're still testing and still

01:03:55reviewing. Um, the is, is it as simple a case there as it has been in recent years, which is

01:04:02it's bigger and it is more outdoorsy. Yeah. That's, there you go. There's satellite connectivity

01:04:08now. Yay. I mean, that's something I will say in the, in the, we, we talked about this last week,

01:04:12right? That I think like ultra people are sort of self-selecting, like you either are one or you're

01:04:16not either aesthetically or because there's a feature, but I we've, I'm sure you have too,

01:04:21but I've heard from some people who were like, you don't understand the satellite connectivity

01:04:23thing is huge. Like it makes this thing compelling for a whole new kind of purpose for this niche of

01:04:31people. For that niche of people, satellite connectivity is big. Is it going to replace

01:04:36the Garmin in reach with like the really serious through hikers? No, because the battery life is

01:04:41not, it's just not there for that. Uh, but if you are on a weekend hike going off the grid,

01:04:48it's there, it's, it's there and it's helpful for you and you don't need an extra subscription to use

01:04:52it, which is big. So for like the weekend warriors, I think this is a big, um, it's a big upgrade that

01:04:58gives them a little more flexibility and what gear they want to carry. If they want to be a little bit

01:05:03more minimalist, they can be, um, you know, having 5g cellular, I mean, they touted it as this thing,

01:05:11which is, don't get me wrong. If you have the 5g coverage, that's great, but it's 5g and LTE

01:05:16on the, all three watches have it though. So it's not that different from the series 11 to the ultra

01:05:22in terms of the coverage for the, for the cellular. The, the main difference is that, you know,

01:05:26there's a different antenna for, for the two higher end watches. So in the edge cases where

01:05:33things are dropping out a little bit, it'll be a little bit better because it has this redesigned

01:05:39antenna, whereas it's just regular 5g and LTE on the SE. The number of people who I think this will

01:05:45truly affect is minuscule. It's just like, how often do you download stuff directly onto your

01:05:52watch versus doing it at home where you have wifi and your phone connected to it? I, I think for most

01:05:58people, the 5g is not going to be a game changer or life changing unless you're the heaviest of

01:06:06cellular users. Cool. The ultra is still the ultra. I compared my ultra two to my ultra three.

01:06:15And again, garbage eyeballs. I was really, truly like, I guess it's minusculely smaller. The

01:06:22bezels. Sure. Like, sure. It's not going to change your life. This is what you're saying.

01:06:29No. It's mostly for people. If you don't have an ultra yet, it's slightly better.

01:06:33Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think, so I, I have a series eight, uh, that is finally kind of starting

01:06:39to show and feel its age. And I'm, I'm like, I've been debating, like, am I ready to become

01:06:44an ultra person just for the sheer screen size alone? And I think the answer is no. I think I'm,

01:06:50I think I'm going SE this year, but I want cellular. Like I'm, I am as much as everyone on our team

01:06:55keeps trying to be like, I'm going to live a smartwatch only life and it's a total disaster.

01:07:00Um, I'm going to live a smartwatch only life and it's going to be sick. I can't wait.

01:07:03I would just say get the 44 because you are a tech nerd. So I do think if you were to go for

01:07:08the 40 and you saw those bezels, you would be like, what is this?

01:07:1140 feels small. I think, let me look at mine. Mine is, I think I have the 45 right now. So I

01:07:16think I would probably go for 44.

01:07:18Go 44. Uh, the bezel situation, just use the dark watch faces, trick yourself into not thinking

01:07:25that's there because I have the 40 millimeter SE. And when I did see the icons, I was like, what is

01:07:30this smartwatch for ants? I can't see anything. Good Lord. Uh, especially because, um, watchOS 26

01:07:37improves the smart stack so that you have a tiny icon that pops up when there's a relevant, uh,

01:07:42suggestion and the smart stack. So, uh, the example I've been using is you open your camera

01:07:47on your phone and a little camera icon is going to pop up and then you pinchy pinch. And then you can

01:07:52open up the camera remote, uh, cause it shows up in the, it's very neat. It's very contextual when that

01:07:57happened on the, on the 40 millimeter. And I had just switched from an ultra to two SE three. I was

01:08:04like, what is this icon? Oh, put it right next to my eyeball. Uh, that's what it is. Like, but again,

01:08:11terrible eyesight. If you have 2020 eyesight, you're probably fine. So yeah, this is a me problem.

01:08:17Yeah. Fair enough. All right. Last question. Uh, are you using the flow watch face?

01:08:22Yes, I am. I am. In fact, I like it. I think it's very minimalist. I think it's pretty. I love

01:08:28pink and purple and it's now pink and purple on my wrist. Um, liquid glass is liquid ass on the

01:08:35phone in my opinion, but on the watch it's fine. Like, see, I totally disagree. I think it is like,

01:08:41I think it is more offensive on the watch than almost anywhere because it's like, I'm my problem

01:08:47with the flow watch face. I'm looking at it right now. It's like, it's, it's pretty and it's charming.

01:08:51And it is like borderline unreadable. It's like, what I actually want from my watch is just to

01:08:57show me the time all the time. And, and ironically, when it's off and you're just glancing at it from

01:09:03the side, when it just has the black background, it's very readable and nice and translucent in a

01:09:07cool way. You turn it on, it breaks. I don't like it. Here's my hack, David. You can go edit that

01:09:14watch face and turn off the background so that it's never on. And then you just have the nice

01:09:18always off look. I mean, this is, this is such the story of liquid glass is like,

01:09:24if you just turn off like most of its features, it's pretty great. And look, now I've made it

01:09:29incredibly boring, but way more readable. Thanks a lot, Apple. We're doing great here.

01:09:34Yeah. Everybody, everybody, everybody's killing it. It's fine. As always turn off most of the

01:09:38features. It'll be fine. The OS 26 story. I, that, and if you turn off most of the features

01:09:45and your battery life will improve. So also true. That's a fair point. All right. You've,

01:09:50you've convinced me. All right. V you have smart glasses to go play with. I'm sure. So so many

01:09:54and just gonna, it's just gonna be me all day. Smart glasses V. All right. We got to take a break

01:09:59anyway. V thank you. We'll be right back. Support for this show comes from LinkedIn ads.

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01:12:08All right, we're back. Let's get to a question from the vergecast hotline. As always, the number

01:12:26is 866-VERGE-11. The email is vergecast at theverge.com. We love hearing all of your questions.

01:12:32This one is about Apple because that's what we're doing here this week, but it's about a thing Apple

01:12:36hasn't talked all that much about recently, which is AI. It's from Nathan. Here it is.

01:12:41Hey friends, this is Nathan. This is probably a not likely take, but with Apple and the iPhone 17

01:12:50event, having AI basically not present at all, and I've been wondering this for a bit, is there any

01:12:56chance that Apple just doesn't believe in AI and they're not failing at it? They're just not even

01:13:03really trying and they're just waiting for it to burn out. I don't know. Seems unlikely,

01:13:08but, and maybe that's optimistic of me, but yep. Thanks.

01:13:12Right. So Nathan, I think the simplest version of the answer to your question is no, I don't think

01:13:17Apple has given up on the idea that AI is important and cool and exciting and is just waiting for it to

01:13:23burn out. I sort of love that theory. It's a really fun conspiracy theory that would actually

01:13:27like retroactively make a lot of Apple's moves here. It makes sense, but that is like galaxy

01:13:32brand, even one level beyond what I'm capable of. So I admire the take, but I don't think that's

01:13:37what's going on, but I do want to talk about kind of the, the framework I've developed for listening

01:13:42to companies talk about AI, because it's been really helpful for me and it might be helpful

01:13:45for you too. So if you're a company in the world right now, you have to talk about AI. You just do,

01:13:51especially if you're a public company who once a quarter has to sit in front of investors and be

01:13:55like, here is our plan for growth over time. That story is just about AI right now. And if you

01:14:01don't talk about AI, somebody will ask you about AI. And if you don't have an answer about AI,

01:14:05they will hammer your stock price. That's just a thing that happens. It is completely divorced

01:14:09from the actual reality of whether AI is good or useful or valuable or anybody wants it.

01:14:14That's just what's happening. So that is, that is one side of the AI story. And I think is

01:14:19important. You have to understand how often these companies are talking to their investors.

01:14:25investors and how many of the things that they say are not about product. They're not about

01:14:29thesis about the future. They are about stock price. And if you start looking at it that way,

01:14:35a lot of the tech industry gets much bleaker and less fun, but I think it starts to make sense.

01:14:40So you have, you have your story for investors. Then I think you have your story for users and the story

01:14:47for users for Apple is actually really AI heavy and really different from the way lots of other

01:14:54companies talk about AI. So Apple's in an interesting place in that it's been doing a lot of really

01:14:59interesting, like what it used to call machine learning things for a long time. Apple is actually

01:15:05very clever about the ways that it uses the on-device processing that your devices have to do things

01:15:12for you. Like the, the thing where you would pull down the notification shade and start to search

01:15:17and right at the top, it would give you like four or eight suggested apps that it thinks you might want

01:15:24to open. That's contextual, right? It's dependent on what time of day and what you've been doing

01:15:27recently. And it's, it's a guess as to what it thinks you might want to be doing when you open

01:15:32your phone. That's AI. Like they didn't call that AI because that wasn't the buzzword when this stuff was

01:15:37coming out, but that's AI Siri. All the stuff Siri has done around your phone, good and bad is AI.

01:15:43Like what the rest of the industry is doing is the same ideas. We we've been at this a long time.

01:15:49And so I think if you think about the way Apple has done clever processing stuff in photos over time,

01:15:54the thing where you could go and search for a person and find your photos, like that's AI. This isn't

01:15:59like novel groundbreaking stuff that Apple is doing, but it is the stuff like that is the technology.

01:16:05What's changed is that now everybody is obsessed with this guy idea of like a God level chat bot

01:16:10that can do everything for you. And we're all talking about agentic. And so where Apple, I think

01:16:15has gone awry is by trying to catch up on the buzzwords because everybody is obsessed with this

01:16:23one very particular instantiation of AI, which is a bot that I ask a question and it goes and

01:16:28accomplishes things on my behalf. Everything that I have seen and read and talked to people about

01:16:32suggests that that tech doesn't work for anybody. And there's not a ton of indication that it's

01:16:37going to anytime soon. There are little bits of this agentic stuff that are starting to work.

01:16:41But the idea that I'm just going to have like a magical interface to the world that I just

01:16:46ask it to, I don't know, fulfill all of my desires. I don't know, buy me groceries. It's like a thing

01:16:52that all these companies want to be able to do. And I just say like, hey, buy me groceries, and it will

01:16:56go, it will figure out what I need, it will figure out what it costs, it will figure out everything,

01:16:59it will meal plan for me, and it will. None of that works. I don't know. I don't know how to be

01:17:03clear about that. None of that works. And Apple is out over its skis, because it has to talk about

01:17:08that again, because it has to make a case to its investors that it is growing and is going to keep

01:17:13growing. But none of it works. And so Apple is now in this tricky place where I think what we've seen

01:17:19this year, and I think the thing that gives me hope for what Apple is doing with AI, is that a lot of

01:17:24the stuff at WWDC was not like flashy AI first features where you're interacting with the AI in

01:17:32order to do something. It's just features like it's just software. I think if you look around,

01:17:38there are basically two kinds of AI, there's AI that is magical god chatbots, and there's AI that

01:17:43is software. And we're actually doing ourselves a disservice by talking about them as the same thing,

01:17:48because one side doesn't work and might not ever and also might be a total societal disaster.

01:17:53And the other is actually going to meaningfully change the way that we interact with our devices.

01:17:57And so Apple having these on device models that it can use to help you do stuff inside of your apps,

01:18:05we're seeing in iOS 26, a lot of devices are starting to do this so that you can scan photos

01:18:10and pull text out of them. There's this cool app called stuff that you can you can write a to do

01:18:15list on a piece of paper, scan it, and it'll pull it into the app as a digital to do list.

01:18:20That's AI. That's not magical Siri chatbot, but it's AI. And so I think if if Apple is smart,

01:18:27and I think Apple generally is smart, it's going to do that kind of stuff more going forward. And

01:18:35to whatever extent, it's going to try to do magical god chatbots. It seems like it's preparing to lean

01:18:41on companies like OpenAI and Anthropic and even Google to do that. The idea that Apple is going to

01:18:46internally build magical, beautiful, perfect Siri seems unlikely. And I think that is where you're

01:18:51going to see Apple start to pull back because the idea of Apple intelligence being like the front

01:18:56and center interface to your phone, I don't think was ever the right idea. I don't think Apple knows

01:19:01how to do it. Apple is not doing it well so far. And I think you're going to see it start to pull

01:19:06back on that stuff and start pushing on the idea that actually what AI is, is like an enabling

01:19:10infrastructure and tool set to do really cool stuff inside of your devices. That is the version of AI

01:19:15that I am much more excited about anyway. So I think that's cool. And in the meantime,

01:19:20there is this messy thing where Apple is going to have to keep telling everybody that it's inventing

01:19:24God inside of your iPhone, so that its stock price will go up. But if you just look at those

01:19:29different things, pushing and pulling against each other, which side wins and like, who is drinking

01:19:35which Kool-Aid and huffing which farts is like, the story in AI right now, because there is there is

01:19:40what you have to say out loud, there is what is possible, there is what is useful, and there is

01:19:45what is interesting. And those are not all the same thing right now. So that's my big take on just

01:19:50how I'm thinking about what Apple and all of these other companies are up to. Are we building God? Or

01:19:56are we building better software? I'm deeply suspicious of one of those things and really,

01:20:00really excited about the other. And I think Apple is starting to lean toward the side that makes me

01:20:04happy. Anyway, Nathan, I hope any of that makes any sense. If you have theories about what Apple is up to

01:20:09with AI, or if you've seen cool ways in which it's actually giving developer tools or even

01:20:14implementing some of this AI stuff itself, send them my way. All this new software is packed with

01:20:18this stuff. And I'm super curious to see how people are using it in interesting ways. So hit me up

01:20:23866-VERGE-11, vergecast-to-the-verge.com. Thanks as always for calling in. All right, that is it for

01:20:29the Vergecast. Thank you to Jake and Allison and V for being here. And thank you as always for

01:20:33listening. If you want to know more about any of these gadgets, stuff we haven't covered in our

01:20:37reviews. Obviously, you can read more stuff on the site. But send us questions. If you have

01:20:41questions about these or any of the gadgets that have come out this year, we have some fun kind of

01:20:45gimmicky stuff we're going to do with all of these gadgets for the rest of the fall. But if you want to

01:20:49know any more, you can always call us on the hotline at 866-VERGE-11. You can email

01:20:53vergecast-to-the-verge.com. Send in all of your questions. We actually have some fun stuff coming up.

01:20:58I think we're going to probably do like a mega hotline episode in the pretty near future. So keep all your

01:21:02questions coming about all this stuff and anything else. I want to hear all of it. The Vergecast is

01:21:08a Verge production and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. The show is produced by Travis

01:21:11Larchuk, Brandon Kiefer, and Eric Gomez. We will be back on Friday to talk, I don't know, I have more

01:21:17hot takes that I didn't get to get out last week. And I have a lot more of them. One of them is about

01:21:21the speed at which you should listen to podcasts. Stay tuned for all of that and lots more. We'll see you

01:21:26then. Rock and roll.

Who is the iPhone Air really for? | The Vergecast

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