- 7 weeks ago
On this week’s judge how close Hull KR are to adding the Super League League Leaders' Shield to the Challenge Cup they lifted earlier this summer, while we look at whether Leeds Rhinos can still come in as regular season runners-up with just two regular season games remaining.
We also look at the fascinating race for sixth and the final play-off spot, with Wakefield Trinity ensuring that Hull FC remain in the picture – despite their derby loss to Hull KR – after Daryl Powell's team suffered an unexpected derby setback themselves, when beaten by Castleford Tigers.
We also look at the fascinating race for sixth and the final play-off spot, with Wakefield Trinity ensuring that Hull FC remain in the picture – despite their derby loss to Hull KR – after Daryl Powell's team suffered an unexpected derby setback themselves, when beaten by Castleford Tigers.
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00:00Hello and welcome to the latest edition of the Rugby League Talk podcast from the Yorkshire
00:11Post where, thanks to the expertise and input of the Yorkshire Post's Rugby League writer
00:15James O'Brien, we assess the latest news in Super League and beyond the Yorkshire's
00:20clubs.
00:20On this week's show, we judge how close all they are to adding the Super League League
00:25leader's shield to the Challenge Cup they lifted earlier this summer.
00:28While we also look at whether Leeds' Rhinos can still come in as regular seasons run us
00:33up with just two games remaining.
00:35And also, we look at the race for sixth, with Wakefield Trinity ensuring that Hull FC remain
00:39in the picture despite their derby loss to Hawke AR, after Daryl Powell's team suffered
00:44an unexpected derby loss themselves when they went down to Casseford Tigers.
00:49But James, we'll start at the top, where else?
00:52And basically, is it fair to say that we can hand over the league leader's shield to Hawke AR
00:58now?
00:59Well, first of all, expertise is pushing it a bit, isn't it?
01:03Let's squeeze that one in there.
01:05I'm being kind.
01:07Yeah, I thought so.
01:08A bit too kind.
01:10Yeah, Hull KR, they're there now, aren't they?
01:12Barring a mathematical miracle on Wigan's part.
01:16And as I said, I touched on in my derby report that OKR, they're just kind of tuned to misery
01:25as supporters of football teams like Leeds and Derby County would be.
01:30They kind of just fear the worst and never quite believe what they're seeing.
01:36So they'll be looking at the fixtures this week thinking, we're going to have got Casse
01:40at home.
01:41Casse coming off a derby win.
01:42If Casse were behind early, a couple of quick tries that could get out of hand.
01:46And then you're looking at what's no disrespect to Casse, because just going off recent results
01:53away from home, they've had a few tonkings.
01:55So you could easily see if Bevan French turns up and plays as he has been recently and other
02:01players in Wigan's side, that could get out of hand.
02:04And it could be 60 plus points.
02:05And then that puts the pressure on OKR again, doesn't it?
02:09Because if they turn in a performance somewhere to the one they did at Headley recently where
02:13they lost by 20 points, I think it was, then that makes it interesting going into the final
02:17round.
02:18So in that respect, no, they haven't got the League League of Shield yet, but it's going
02:24to take something pretty special and unique for it not to happen now.
02:27And if they don't beat Wakefield this week, and obviously it's a must-win game for Wakefield,
02:33as well.
02:36They've got another chance, haven't they, against Warrington next week, and Warrington
02:39are not going so well at the moment.
02:42So they've got two bites here, and even if they do mess up twice, we're going to have
02:48to wipe out the points difference as well.
02:49So they're as good as there, but I'm probably siding with the Huck-Yar fans, given they've
02:55been burnt in the past far too many times.
02:57Obviously not in this situation, usually at the bottom of the table, but it's not over
03:02until it's over.
03:03Either way, it won't take, well, it would take the gloss off.
03:09It would take the gloss off very much, but it would be a stunning, let's just say that
03:14it goes ahead this weekend, or quite possibly it won't go ahead this weekend, whether it's
03:18going to get to the final round in terms of mathematically, points-wise, I suppose.
03:22But it's been a remarkable season for Huck-Yar, hasn't it?
03:25It says, Jane, I think it's underplayed, really, the achievement of finishing top at the end
03:31of regular season since the grand final came in, which is a great spectacle.
03:35But if you think about it, out of the three competitions to win the League Leader's Shield,
03:41that should be valued the highest, probably, because you play over 27 rounds, and if you're
03:44the most consistent team over that long, long period through winter, spring, summer, back
03:50to winter pretty much, it's autumn, isn't it?
03:53But it feels like winter right now.
03:54But anyway, moving on from that, just in terms of that consistency, you are the best team
03:59over the course of the season, and you should be heralded as such.
04:04So, yeah, I think it carries more weight than the Challenge Cup wins, certainly, although
04:08that was obviously huge for them after 40 years and not winning anything.
04:14But what did they have to win to win that trophy four games, I think it was?
04:19There's no comparison, really, in terms of achievement.
04:22In terms of that level of consistency, as I say.
04:27So, it'd be massive for them, and it's the first time finishing top in 40 years as well.
04:32So, it's obviously the year of Hull KR and of turning these long and wanted records.
04:41You mentioned that about the League Leader's Shield.
04:43Do you think, looking back, just before we move on, perhaps to talk about Leeds a bit more,
04:49do you think, looking back, that the achievement of Cassie's achievement back in 2017 is kind of underplayed as well,
04:57given, like you say, over the course of the season, they proved to be the best team.
05:01But when it came to it in the grand final, you know, there was extenuating circumstances
05:05coming up to that final, as we all know.
05:07But, you know, on the day, they just didn't perform as to how they perhaps had throughout the entire season before that.
05:15No.
05:16And they were probably one of the most, if not the most dominant,
05:19one of the most dominant sides we've seen during the regular season.
05:23They were scoring points for fun.
05:24They had a left edge run by Luke Gale, which was unstoppable.
05:28I don't know how many defeats they suffered.
05:31It can't be more than two or three.
05:34They scored over 1,000 points, I think, as well.
05:36So, what an unbelievable season they had.
05:38And they just couldn't replicate it.
05:40And obviously, as you've mentioned, falling short in the grand final,
05:44just everything seems to conspire against them.
05:47Zach Ardaker, I think he was a man of steel that year, or very close.
05:52I think Luke Gale got it to me in the end.
05:54But, you know, Kale was probably the best player that season.
05:56He shoots himself in the foot just before the final, so to speak.
06:01And then you turn up and it's raining.
06:04I know I'm going off on a tangent here, but they turned up and were absolutely tonking it down with rain as well,
06:08which didn't help their free-flowing style.
06:10So, yeah, and look what's happened to them since.
06:13But I think OKR have got something a bit more, they've got more stability and they've got a proper base now.
06:20They've been up there for a few seasons.
06:22They've been threatening this.
06:23Certainly last season.
06:24And now they are, you know, fulfilling that promise.
06:28I think as you were alluding to in your report from the Hull FC game on Sunday,
06:34that Hull KR had a number of players out themselves.
06:38The difference being this year is that they had the quality to come in.
06:42The depth is there now that perhaps in previous years, even last year to a certain extent,
06:48it wasn't there, was it?
06:50No, that's it.
06:51And he's forgotten they've been out with Oliver Gildart, who had a great start to the season.
06:56He's been out for almost four and a half months now.
07:00He could be back against Wakefield this weekend, which should be timely for him.
07:03And Joe Burgess pulls out late last weekend and the young winger Noah Booth comes in, does a great job, scores the opening try.
07:11So, and Jack Robin, obviously, who probably worrying or wondering where he was going to fit in this season.
07:18He's played pretty much every game in various positions.
07:22So, they've got that strength in depth now.
07:24They've got Rhys Martin to come back in for the playoffs as well.
07:27So, they're in good shape.
07:28I think it's just Michael McAlorham then who will be trying to keep his career alive.
07:34He broke his ankle in training recently.
07:35He's the only real doubt, I'd say, at this point for the playoffs.
07:40But knowing him and seeing what he did to play in the Challenge Cup final, it would not surprise me to see him run out in the semi-final at Craven Park at the start of October.
07:51I mean, we'll cover Hull FC probably.
07:54It's probably better to cover Hull FC in the last two games when we get on to Wakefield in a bit.
08:00But just in terms of Leeds Rhinos, there is, I mean, there's a lot riding in various positions on these last two games, isn't there?
08:09I mean, obviously, Leeds Rhinos can still finish second.
08:11It needs a result to perhaps go their way, perhaps.
08:15But the fact that they're still in the pitch for second going into these last two games is a remarkable achievement, really, for Brad Arthur in his first four seasons, isn't it?
08:24It is, especially considering where they were last year.
08:28I think second place is probably a long shot.
08:33The go to Wigan in the last round, that's certainly helpful in terms of overturning that points difference.
08:39It's almost times two, isn't it, when you score.
08:41If you score, if you win by 20 points, you claw back 40 points on the for and against.
08:47So that is a bonus, but it's a big ask.
08:51As we mentioned, Wigan playing Cass at home, you'd expect them to win quite handsomely there.
08:56Leeds have got Catalan.
08:57That's an opportunity to rack up some points.
08:59But just to say they're even after this weekend, that's 65 points to make up on the final round and to go to Wigan and win by 30-odd points is a big ask, isn't it?
09:11But just in terms of the achievement itself, finishing in the top four, which they can do this week, if they beat Catalan, they're assured of the top four players.
09:18That's not happened since 2017 when they last won the title.
09:21And that's a very long time for a club like Leeds to be without a home playoff tie.
09:27So that's what's on the line for them this week.
09:29If they beat Catalan, the season at Hedley is not over.
09:34It'll be alive for one more game and that'll be a cracking occasion, no matter who it's against.
09:40They'd love to get third place.
09:41I don't think they'd fancy St Helens.
09:43It looks like St Helens will finish fifth there.
09:45Leeds is bogey side.
09:46I don't think they'd fancy playing them even at Hedley.
09:48But then having said that, they could play away to field as well if they've had a tough time against this season.
09:53So it does have the makings of a really intriguing playoff competition, especially with those top two.
10:00As we've said all the way through the year, it's looked like Hulker and Wigan.
10:05It probably is again now after a bit of a wobble for both sides.
10:08But there are teams in there that can worry both those sides.
10:12And I think Leeds top that list having beaten both of them this season.
10:17We'll get on to that battle for six now.
10:23Firstly, I suppose the first question has to be, James, how did Wakefield lose against Castleford?
10:33It's a very good question.
10:35I just think they were out and I know it's a bit of a cliche, but they're out and throughs on the night.
10:39Cass, in their last home game of the season, they played like, and Daryl Powell mentioned this after the game,
10:46that a lot of their players had their best game of the season, which he was ruining, obviously.
10:53And he admitted a few of his players have probably had their worst game of the season.
10:57And that probably sums it up.
10:58And you can't do that against any side, I'd say, unless you're playing in Salford and they've got a load of kids out.
11:04Cass have got some good players in their side and they turned up.
11:07And again, I mentioned in my report that the old ground were rocking like it used to do, ironically,
11:14in Daryl Powell's days when, as we've mentioned previously, in 2017, when they were just sweeping all before them.
11:21It was not quite on that level, but it was the same kind of atmosphere and feel around the place.
11:26And they've got to harness that, haven't they, bottle it up for next season?
11:30Because another season like this won't cut it.
11:33But just on Wakefield, yeah, that was, obviously they've been bailed out to some extent by Hull KR beating Hull FC.
11:40But now they've got to try and do what Hull FC failed to do last week and beat Hull KR at home this Saturday.
11:47Yeah, I just, I could see them doing it because they're a funny old side, Wakefield.
11:54They could turn in a performance like they did last week and then come out and put the cleaners through OKI.
11:58It's not beyond the realms that they go and win that game.
12:01But you just don't know what you're going to get from them.
12:03So I am not predicting that result.
12:06I'll stay clear of that.
12:08But I know you're going to come on to Hull, but you look at their fixtures on paper,
12:12they've got Warrington at home, Callan at home, and you think that's favourable.
12:17That's a favourable pair of fixtures in the last couple of rounds.
12:20But I can tell you now it will be very tense at the MKM Stadium on Saturday.
12:26At the start of the season, nobody at Hull thought they'd be in the playoffs.
12:29Now they're this close, yeah, it does create a bit of tension.
12:34And obviously the fact that both games are kicking off at the same time does build that tension.
12:40But I don't know if you've seen the final round fixtures.
12:45They've come on different nights, which is bonkers.
12:48That could make the Wakefield game a dead rubber if results score.
12:53I do find that staggering that they're not all on the same night.
12:57Yeah.
12:57At the same time.
12:59I guess the thinking is they're separated by a point.
13:02So it's not as if Wakefield will be able to go out and know exactly how many points they need
13:07and put the cue on the rack or what have you.
13:09But still, it doesn't create that drama that it probably deserves, that race for six.
13:14It's been nip and tuck, hasn't it, for months now.
13:17And it's going to be a bit better.
13:18Football does it, doesn't it?
13:19Football Premier League does it.
13:20They all kick off same day, same time, last game of the season.
13:24You know that's going to happen.
13:26You know it's going to come down to that final day.
13:27You know, I'm sure, you know, in the Premier League in past years, there have been final days
13:32where there hasn't been anything riding on it.
13:33All the relegation places are sorted.
13:35Champions are already sorted quite often, particularly in the last couple of years, actually, probably.
13:40But it just, like I say, it adds to the drama.
13:43People are wondering what's, you know, if there is plenty at stake,
13:47people are wondering what's going on at the other games.
13:49What's happening?
13:50Are we still in the chat?
13:52Are we done?
13:52Whatever.
13:53It just adds to the excitement and the drama.
13:54And I just find it baffling that they don't do that in Super League.
13:59Yeah.
14:00We all love that little box coming in the bottom corner with the updates from the other ground.
14:04You see a try or a goal.
14:07And it does create that excitement.
14:08It builds it.
14:09But now we're just going to get Hull kicking off 24 hours earlier against Catalan.
14:13If Hull win this weekend and Wakefield lose, then Hull will know if they win that game,
14:18they're in.
14:19And if they win that game, Wakefield will turn up the following night thinking,
14:24well, we've got, we can't get in the playoffs now.
14:27So it does, it does take away from it massively, I think.
14:30But, and, and we've got two games kicking off in Hull at the same time on the same night,
14:37which is, which is going to be fun, but definitely.
14:39We'll get on with it, don't we?
14:41Definitely.
14:41Just in terms of Hull, just lastly, before we go, is the home form or should the home form,
14:47they have some done, done some way to addressing that, I guess,
14:50in the fact that they actually eventually won at home.
14:52But is it still a sort of cause for concern, given both their remaining games are at home?
14:58Warrington and Catalan, like you say on paper, do look favourable,
15:01certainly more favourable than Wakefield taking on Hull KR.
15:05But, you know, is there still a cause for concern with Hull FC being at home?
15:09They haven't cracked it quite yet.
15:12They did beat Lee recently, and that was a great result for them.
15:15I don't think they've won since then.
15:18But it did feel like they turned a corner there.
15:20But they, I remember turning up there and they played Huddersfield recently,
15:24who had got nothing to play for, and Huddersfield won convincingly.
15:27So I'm sure that will be in the back of the fans' minds this weekend.
15:32And Warrington are the type of team, even though they look like they're on the beach,
15:35and they have been for a while now.
15:37They've got players in their side.
15:38If they turn up and just fancy it, it could be a tough evening for Hull.
15:45And you've got players playing for contracts in some cases as well, haven't you?
15:49Playing for deals next year, essentially.
15:52They know that Sam Burgess is staying around now, so you would think that would be a factor.
15:57But it was a factor last week, and they lost again.
16:00So, yeah, obviously Hull last time out at home, they'd lost heavily to Leeds.
16:05Will that be in the back of the minds?
16:07Just a lot.
16:09Yeah, it's a test of nerves, isn't it, at this stage of the season,
16:13as much as skill and the rest of it.
16:17Two games out.
16:19What's that, sorry?
16:20Two games out.
16:22Is it fair of me?
16:24Is it fair to ask you for a prediction?
16:29Well, I think it's got first, second and sixth.
16:34I haven't got six fingers on that hand, by the way.
16:37I think the top two is quite easy.
16:39I think OKR will win it, and Wigan will be second.
16:42Right.
16:43I'll go with that.
16:44And then sixth, I've said Wakefield all along, or most of the season.
16:47So, I'll have to stick with that.
16:49But they're probably going to have to beat OKR, aren't they?
16:53Unless Warrington do turn up and Hull FC get jittery on Saturday.
16:58You should fancy Wakefield to beat Salford quite comfortably on the last night.
17:04So, it all rides on Saturday, depending on what happens,
17:08whether Wakefield can beat OKR,
17:11and if they do lose, whether Hull can beat Warrington.
17:14So, we've got two cracks at it this weekend.
17:17But they do need to, if they don't get the job done themselves,
17:19they need a favour from Warrington,
17:21who haven't looked like doing anyone any favours recently.
17:25So, it is an intriguing battle.
17:29And like we've said, it's just a shame that it won't be finished on the same night.
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