'Israeli film institutions complicit with genocide', film director says as industry workers call for boycott

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00:00On now, over 1,800 actors, entertainers and producers, including Hollywood stars like

00:05Olivia Colman and Mark Ruffalo, have signed a pledge vowing not to work with Israeli film

00:11companies they say are complicit in abuses against Palestinians. Signatories stress

00:16this isn't a boycott of individuals, but a stand against institutions tied to the alleged

00:22human rights violations, while as Israel's military assault on Gaza fuels a deepening

00:28humanitarian crisis. Calls for boycotts and protests are growing. One of those signatories

00:34is Mike Lerner. He is a film director and producer, and he joins us now. Mike, thanks so much for

00:41being with us. It's great to have you. First of all, I want to just ask you, what is your

00:46reasoning in joining this pledge? Well, one of the problems we have is that the people of Palestine

00:54are so powerless and so friendless in this world. You know, Israel has all the power. And so those

01:04of us that have some kind of power must use whatever we can to try and help the Palestine people. And so,

01:11you know, people in the film industry have this power. We have enormous influence and reach in the

01:20world. And, you know, we really feel it's something we can do to try and address this terrible genocide

01:27that's occurring. And, you know, it's interesting to see the response to what's happening and how

01:33popular this call is and how many people are signing on for it. Because, you know, I think most sensitive

01:40people understand that really this is the worst time of our lives, you know, the worst time in our

01:49human history. And, you know, we have a responsibility to try and do what we can to mitigate it if we

01:56possibly can. We're under no illusions that this is going to bring around an end to the war. But I think

02:01it is important that we use, as I say, whatever power we have, and the film industry has a lot of power

02:08to try and bring the situation to some kind of conclusion, some kind of peace.

02:14Well, Mike, what are your grievances? What exactly are you accusing these Israeli companies of?

02:21Well, we're accusing them of being part of a genocidal

02:26campaign. I mean, these companies are complicit with the Israeli government in the genocide that's

02:33occurring. They participate in the culture of the country, and they have never stated any kind of

02:42support for Palestine or use their power to change the situation, to challenge the impunity of the

02:52Israeli government and Israeli society. So, you know, we're accusing them of a lot, you know,

02:57we're accusing them of being complicit, which they are. And those that are not are very, we're very

03:04welcome to, we're very welcome to work with them. You know, this is very explicitly written in this

03:11pledge that we're not targeting individual Israeli filmmakers, and we're not targeting individual

03:18Israeli producers and companies that are standing against this genocide. You know, who we are targeting

03:26are those companies and institutions that are directly in league with Israeli government, Israeli

03:34society in perpetuating this Holocaust. So that's what we're after.

03:40Well, Mike, the Israeli Producers Association has reacted to the boycott that you're part of.

03:45It's told The Guardian that the petition is targeting the wrong people. What would you say to

03:50people like the people that are part of this association who perhaps don't hold any animosity

03:57against Palestinians, don't agree with Israel's assault in Gaza? What would you say to them?

04:03Because they are going to be penalized by this boycott.

04:06Well, they're wrong. They've misinterpreted what we're doing. Exactly what I've said. We're not,

04:11we're not targeting individual filmmakers, and we're not targeting filmmakers who are not complicit.

04:17So they've misinterpreted what we're trying to do here. I don't know whether that's deliberate or not.

04:26But there's every reason for Israeli filmmakers and Israeli producers to stand with us and somehow

04:36use their power to contradict this campaign of genocide that their country is committing.

04:45Mike, the boycott is inspired by a similar one that took place in the 1980s with apartheid in South

04:54Africa. It did contribute, that boycott did contribute to the end of the apartheid. Do you feel that this

05:00boycott will be effective?

05:04Well, I really hope so. As you say, the boycott in South Africa, I mean,

05:08apartheid was really ended in South Africa because of boycotts. And there are obviously other boycotts

05:16of Israel, the BDS movement and others that have been successful in marginalizing Israeli businesses.

05:24And also, it makes people realize that they can't act with impunity, that you can't carry out these

05:32things and carry on business as normal. There has to be some kind of price to pay. And, you know,

05:39if we can extract that price, then all the better. But as you say, the boycott in the film

05:46producers' boycott in the 80s in South Africa was very, very important, along with the other boycotts

05:53of South Africa that really turned the tide. And really, you know, it wasn't the gun that won,

06:00that overcame apartheid. It was really the dollar. It was really money that did that. And we certainly

06:06hope that that can be the case with Israel. I mean, that would be, you know, I mean, we don't only call

06:15for boycott of the film industry, you know, we're calling for, personally, and others are calling

06:23for a boycott of Israel and its arms industry, its finance industry, its media, etc. You know,

06:31these are the only ways I think that you can, in any way, impose some kind of control over what is

06:39happening in Israel. And so we hope it's as successful as that which happened in South Africa.

06:47Yeah. Well, we'll have to see. Mike, thank you so much for joining us on the program.

06:51Really great to talk to you and get your view on this boycott.

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