- 7 months ago
Is democracy under threat in Nepal as protests spiral on the second day of the Gen Z protest? Hear out experts in this episode of News Today as they give their views on what's at stake for the Himalayan nation.
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00:00Hello and welcome. You're with the news today, your prime time destination. News,
00:04newsmakers, talking points. This Tuesday night, this is where you'll get all the day's top
00:09stories and we have plenty on the show today. Remember, Nepal is on the boil. Is this a
00:16revolution or is this anarchy? We'll have fine voices from Kathmandu and the national capital
00:22here joining us. Also, we'll look at the other big question. What next? Army rule,
00:28interim government or polls and we'll tell you just who is the next vice president of India.
00:34CP Radhakrishnan has won in a canter. All that and much more on the news today. But first,
00:42the nine headlines at nine. Chaos continues to prevail on the streets of Kathmandu and across
00:50Nepal. Prime Minister KP Oily resigns but protests continue. Ministers, former prime ministers,
00:57their spouses targeted. Government offices, even newspaper and television channel are set on fire.
01:06Ministry of External Affairs asks Indians to defer traveling to Nepal. Issues helpline numbers for
01:13Indians stranded in Nepal, including at Kathmandu airport. Ministry of External Affairs asks them
01:18to stay indoors and exercise caution. NDA's pick CP Radhakrishnan, the former Maharashtra governor,
01:29is now the new vice president. He bags 452 votes, while India block gets 300 votes, 15 less than what
01:38they expected. An India Today exclusive, Karnataka Deputy Chief Minister D.K. Shiv Kumar at India Today
01:46South Conclave claims that he never had anything to do with the RSS. Claims he's a proud Hindu but
01:53respects all religions. Insists the Dharams Tala case was bogus and part of an RSS BJP fight.
02:01An avalanche hits the Indian Army camp at Siachen. Three soldiers lose their lives. Their bodies have
02:11been retrieved by the forces. Prime Minister conducts an aerial survey of flood affected regions in
02:19Himachal Pradesh and Punjab. Prime Minister also reviews the relief efforts in both the states meets
02:25families of flood victims. Israel targets the Hamas leadership that was out to negotiate in Qatar's
02:35capital of Doha. Reports claim senior Hamas leaders killed during attack. Qatar calls it a violation of
02:42its territory. Jeffrey Epstein's 2003 birthday letter with Trump's alleged signature surfaces. White House
02:52and Vice President J.D. Vance denied say it's not Trump's signature. Actor Karishma Kapoor's children
03:02approached the Delhi High Court for a share in her former husband Sanjay Kapoor's 30,000 crore estate.
03:08They even accused their stepmother Priya Sajdev of changing the will.
03:22Let's turn to the story though that's breaking at the moment. CP Radhakrishnan has been elected as the vice
03:35president of the country. That's right. The NDA candidate has got 452 votes. The opposition
03:42candidate Sudarshan has ready has got 300 votes. Remember Jairam Ramesh of the Congress had claimed
03:50315 opposition MPs voted. 767 votes were cast. 15 votes were held invalid. Now which who were the
04:00invalid votes is key to whether there was cross voting or not. NDA's Radhakrishnan therefore has
04:06got 60 percent of valid votes. This is less than what Jagdeep Dhankar had polled in 2022 when he polled
04:1374 percent of the votes. But the NDA flock has held together. The opposition claims that it has held
04:21together but there will be question marks. Aishwarya Paliwal joins me with the very latest.
04:26Aishwarya we are told that in a short while from now Prime Minister Modi will be visiting CP Radhakrishnan
04:32to congratulate him. But just make sense of the numbers. NDA's flock stood together. Opposition by and large
04:40stood together. But there is still a question mark over those 15 invalid votes.
04:45Well a big question mark Rajdeep because you know Jairam Ramesh in his own tweet has said that
04:49what the opposition was expecting and on the basis of this number they said that they have the moral
04:53victory 350. They got 300 which means minus 15. The ND on the other side has got more than what they
05:00were expecting. They were expecting 427. They have got 452. So which means that obviously there are people
05:07who promised they will vote on one side but they have promised but they have actually voted on the
05:11other side. We will now have to wait and watch but at the moment you know there is radio silence with
05:16regards to those 15 invalid votes. Are these votes that were being done by the opposition? That's
05:22the big question but an entire workshop was being held on both the sides. So it seems like if this
05:26really is a question of those 15 votes were all these votes from the opposition camp and did vote
05:32actually happen? That's also a big question Rajdeep which is being asked. Prime Minister Modi
05:36about to visit Prahlad Joshi's residence in about 10 to 15 minutes and then we will have a big
05:42celebration planned by the NDA at Prahlad Joshi's house. Rajdeep.
05:49Okay we'll wait and see for those pictures when they come from Prahlad Joshi's residence but
05:55Aishwarya Paliwal giving us the big news that CP Radhakrishnan, two-time MP from Tamil Nadu,
06:02veteran of the BJP, someone very close to the RSS and someone who's been governor in states like
06:09Maharashtra, in Telangana and in Jarkhand will be the new vice president of the country replacing
06:16Jagdeep Dhankar who remember resigned unexpectedly in July when the monsoon session of parliament began.
06:24From there let's turn to the other big story that we are breaking at the moment. Nepal's Prime
06:29Minister KP Sharma Oli has quit on yet another dramatic day in the Himalayan country. Former
06:37Prime Minister Jalanath Khanal's wife has been burnt alive. That's right that's the nature of the
06:44violence and arson that has taken place in Kathmandu in the last 24 hours. Parliament building in
06:51Kathmandu has been set on fire. Kathmandu's mayor Balen Shah is saying talks now only after
06:57parliament is dissolved. United Nations has called for peace in Nepal. India watching the situation
07:03closely. Joining me now is Amit Bhardwaj on Ground Zero in Kathmandu. Amit, has there been any
07:11de-escalation in the violence or is there still violent mobs on the streets of Kathmandu?
07:20Razif you know for the past 15 minutes I can certainly say that the tempers are going down.
07:24Don't know whether that is because of it's already late in the night out here or the messaging that
07:31has come from the army chief of Nepal as well. The army chief has very clearly said that peace and
07:38security needs to be reinstated in the state of Nepal as well as he's also speaking as to how
07:46there should not be damage to the property and public property to be very specific.
07:51So that message could be now going down, prickling down the Gen Z protesters who have been on march
07:58since morning. I was there at 7 in the morning Razif in front of the parliament and there was hardly
08:04a dozen of armed personnel who were protecting the parliament building and you had the numbers
08:11only increasing as far as the Gen Z protesters were concerned. There was an attempt to get hold of
08:17the security of the parliament building by 8.30, 9.30. We can certainly say that the Gen Z protesters
08:24were pushed away and from there what we saw are arson, vandalism, things being set on fire
08:31all across. I've literally walked to almost every possible corner of the city where the political
08:37establishment and power is and by the end of the evening we could see the Kathmandu Valley
08:44police station, one of the biggest police station in the city being set on fire. Right. Let alone the
08:49Singh Darbar which is the center of power on fire as well. Thank you.
08:58Amit Bhargava joining us there from Kathmandu. Remember there is still a question mark of whether
09:02the army will take over or allow an interim government and then fresh elections. Those are
09:07still questions that are pending. Just to give you a sense of what's happened in the last 24 hours as
09:13a country is pushed to the brink. Protesters, thousands of them young people being described
09:18as Nepal's Gen Z generation hitting the streets. It began yesterday and it carried on today with no
09:24let up, setting part of that parliament building on fire, attacking the resistances of top political
09:31leaders, even the wife of a former prime minister being set ablaze. How have events unfolded in such a
09:38dramatic manner in the Himalayan kingdom? It's our top story.
09:50Nepal on the brink.
09:54Parliament set on fire.
09:58The Supreme Court attacked.
10:00Homes of top political leaders, including Kethi Sharmaoli, targeted.
10:11A former prime minister, Jhalanath Khanal's wife, Raja Lakshma Chitrakar, succumbs to burn injuries
10:17after their house is torched. Former prime minister, Shehra Bahadu Dehava, is rescued by army personnel.
10:25Finance minister, Bishnu Paudel, chased and assaulted.
10:29These images tell the story of the two-day Gen Z revolution in the Himalayan nation.
10:39KP Sharmaoli stepped down as prime minister, but nothing could douse the fire.
10:44Protests against corruption and nepo kids, sons and daughters of leaders flaunting their wealth on
10:50social media had spiralled out of control on Monday after a ban on the popular digital platforms.
10:57While the ban on social media was lifted the same day, the agitation by then had gone viral across
11:02the country, plunging Nepal into chaos, with thousands taking over the seats of power in
11:07Kathmandu on Tuesday.
11:10I can talk in English, I can talk in Nepali, whatever the f**k.
11:16в сферное иikit в сферу.
11:19В сферное и тисдерия Курокит, в сферное и тиома имагатху.
11:22Сферное и тисдерия Курокит.
11:28and give this proper documentation.
11:31This is my fault.
11:33This is my fault.
11:35This is my fault.
11:37Certainly, people have started to run.
11:40We do not know what is happening,
11:42but this is certainly a stampede-like situation.
11:45And the crowd that is coming is coming from the Singh Darbar area,
11:50where the Ministry of Nepal,
11:53different government offices are located.
11:56So, this is the traffic post which has been tumbled upon,
12:00and all of that traffic post,
12:02which were broken down by the protesters,
12:04are being set on fire.
12:10The protests were followed by celebrations and looting.
12:15The army is in charge,
12:17but are they in control?
12:19The government machinery appears to have collapsed.
12:22Kathmandu Mayor Balendra Shah has emerged as a key player.
12:27The former rapper, popular among protestors,
12:30has called for calm.
12:33Will the Gen Z revolution end here?
12:35No one has the answers yet.
12:37With Pankaj Das, Rohit Singh and Amit Bhardwaj reporting from Nepal,
12:42Muir Report, India Today.
12:50Let's raise the big questions on that big story.
12:52Is democracy once again on the brink in danger in Nepal?
12:56Are the protests organic or are they orchestrating?
12:59Is this revolution or is this anarchy?
13:02Army rule, interim, government or elections now?
13:06Nepal staring at prolonged uncertainty and how will that affect India?
13:11Joining me now, three very special guests.
13:13Joined by Rakesh Sooth, former Indian ambassador to Nepal,
13:16someone who knows that country very well.
13:18Joined by Amitabh Battu,
13:20Dean and Professor, School of International Studies at JNU.
13:23Yubaraj Ghimere, journalist and writer who's been based in Kathmandu for years
13:28but is at the moment in the national capital.
13:31I appreciate all three of you joining us.
13:33I want to come to you, Yubaraj, first.
13:35Okay, we'll come to Yubaraj in a moment.
13:38But let me go to Rakesh Sooth for your first remarks, Rakesh Sooth.
13:43How are you seeing this situation unfolding in Nepal?
13:46We could see the 10th government there in 11 years.
13:49Is this surprising or is chronic instability now built into Nepal?
13:57Thank you, Rajdeep.
13:58And I can say that having spent three years of my career in Nepal,
14:08I feel very sad when I see this.
14:12But the fact is that since 2008, when Monarchy was abolished,
14:21and we had the first Constituent Assembly creating a new constitution for Nepal,
14:31since then we've had 15 prime ministers.
14:34So that's 17 years, 15 prime ministers.
14:38If we look at the constitution, which was adopted in 2015, 10 years ago,
14:45since 2015, we've had nine governments.
14:50Which means in the last 10 years, we've only had nine governments.
14:55And the prime ministers has been in a game of musical chess.
15:02It's been the same people.
15:04It's been the Maoist leader Prachand.
15:07It's been Krishna Prasad Sharma Oli,
15:12the UML leader who is now resigned and has been asked to continue as caretaker.
15:18And it's been Sher Bahadur Dioba.
15:21And I think what we are seeing is not just a rejection of Oli and Oli's government.
15:29What we are seeing is a rejection of that particular class of political leadership,
15:38which have prevented, including in their own political parties, youngsters to come up.
15:43Which is why they are looking, people are looking towards Balen Shah,
15:48who's a young mayor of Kathmandu.
15:52Balen Shah is a former rapper in his 30s.
15:57Goes around 24-7 with dark glasses, black trousers.
16:04But Balen Shah also, by the way, kept his peace.
16:09And it is only now, when the violence is getting out of control,
16:13that Balen Shah is trying to claim leadership of this movement.
16:18There was somebody else.
16:19By the way, I just saw Rabila Michane, who was a former TV personality.
16:25And Rabila Michane joined the government as deputy prime minister, got caught in a corruption scandal, was in jail.
16:34And just a couple of hours ago, his supporters went to the jail, got him released.
16:40Because the jail authorities said, we can't ensure peace and security in the jail.
16:47So he's now gone home now.
16:50So there is a populism that has taken hold.
16:54And I think, you know, as well as I do, that when populism takes hold,
16:59and there is no leadership, there is no control.
17:02There are, we don't know how this is going to unfold.
17:06Let me, let me for a moment, bring in also Amitabh Battu, just written a column on what's happening there.
17:16Amitabh Battu, you've drawn a parallel possibly between what we saw in Bangladesh a year ago
17:22and what we are now seeing in Nepal.
17:24Youth protesters hitting the streets, challenging what they see is an aging, decrepit, corrupt leadership,
17:31and demanding answers to key issues like joblessness and misgovernance.
17:37Is that how you see Nepal at the moment that this is a unique protest even compared to previous unrest?
17:43This is a protest primarily driven by the youth against corruption and misgovernance and joblessness.
17:50Rajdeep, the first parallel between Bangladesh and Nepal is that sadly,
17:57despite all the expertise in the Ministry of External Affairs,
18:01we had no anticipation that these events were going to unfold.
18:06Bangladesh happened behind our back.
18:09No one that I know of spoke about what is going to be the biggest uprising in Nepal since living memory, really.
18:19Never have you seen young people on the streets of Nepal violently protesting against the ruling regime,
18:29catalyzed by a ban, a short-sighted ban on social media applications,
18:35and every district of Nepal is today impacted.
18:39The second parallel is, of course, the easy way to build a conspiracy theory that there are other elements,
18:46as you pointed out, who might be fishing in these troubled waters.
18:51That may or may not be the point.
18:54It may be the case in this case.
18:56The important thing is, why did this happen?
19:00First of all, you recognize that Nepal's biggest source of its GDP is remittances from abroad.
19:09Nearly a quarter of Nepal's GDP is based on people who have left Nepal sending money abroad.
19:19So what's happening is, there's an exodus of young people,
19:23and those who have stayed back are on the streets.
19:26It's a completely dysfunctional economy, a dysfunctional polity.
19:31Young people who could be the demographic dividend have suddenly become the demographic nightmare
19:37because they see a system which has betrayed them, a political regime which inspires no confidence.
19:47And if there is a parallel, is that, and I hope that's not a parallel, is that India has to be extremely cautious about how it approaches Nepal.
19:59Remember, the street protests in Bangladesh quickly turned into an anti-India vehicle.
20:06In Nepal, our ties are much more approximate in every sense of the word, civilizational, cultural, open borders, shared rivers.
20:15It's important that we engage, engage without being patronizing, that we engage all actors, especially the young people of Nepal.
20:25And that we do so in a manner in which we respect the sensitivities of the people of Nepal.
20:33I think it's important for Nepal to understand that India is a benign neighbor which will only help to try and stabilize Nepal.
20:44I think finally, Rajdeep, I think the most important point is that despite the chaos and anarchy, the Nepalese army, which used to be the Royal Nepalese army or the Gurkhali army, is today still unified as a force.
20:59And you have had the chief of the army staff come out clearly against the violence and the anarchy on the streets.
21:06I have great faith in the Nepali army.
21:09I think it is a force which we can still manage to inject a modicum of stability, even while things seem lost on the ground.
21:19I just want to throw a number which I think viewers need to understand.
21:27More than four lakh departures annually.
21:31More than 400,000 departures, meaning more than 400,000 Nepalese are migrating out of their country.
21:38Many of them to India.
21:40An average of more than a thousand a day.
21:43Therefore, the very demographic of Nepal is being hollowed out in a way.
21:49And that is seen to be part of the crisis that has taken place in Nepal.
21:54Presumably, Rakesh, from what taking out from what Amitabh Mattu said, when it happened in Bangladesh, we were caught unawares and we've seen how these protests then turned into anti India demonstrations.
22:07Is that something you fear that could happen in Nepal?
22:10In the past, politicians of that country have also whipped up anti India sentiment when it suits them.
22:16Rajdeep, that was my biggest concern.
22:21And I've been talking to people in Kathmandu and so far, I'm very reassured that nobody, you know, Oli has not had the best of relationship with the multi government.
22:38We know that.
22:39We know that.
22:40And I thought that perhaps only when, you know, faced with these protests might point to a foreign hand and he has in the past pointed to the foreign hand being India.
22:52But this time that has not been the case.
22:55So in that sense, this is organic.
22:58And this is homegrown.
23:00However, the ban on the social media apps is was perhaps the catalyst which lit the spark in what was already a sense of burning resentment among the youth.
23:21Amitabh spoke about the youth.
23:23You know, the median age in Nepal is 25, which means that 50% of Nepal's population is below 25.
23:32Now, that's a very, very young population.
23:36And Amitabh is right when he says that there is a huge Nepali diaspora.
23:43So if you look at Nepal's population, which is about 30 million, and if 50% is below 25 and our and Nepali diaspora is something like 5 million.
23:58And by the way, this does not include the Nepalese who live in India, because those are not counted as diaspora.
24:09So you are looking at a huge chunk of the of the working population, which is living outside Nepal because they can't find employment there, which is why 25% of Nepal's GDP comes from its remittances.
24:27And now that you have that demographic bulge because of the and so that is why you have this Gen Z.
24:38However, the Gen Z hasn't come about just on its own.
24:42See, when you ban social media and you have such a huge population of diaspora outside, you are also stopping communication with your father or your uncle or whoever it is who's living outside.
24:55So because all these people speak on Facebook, they communicate on Facebook, WhatsApp, etc, etc.
25:02So you you just blocked a huge communication channel for a huge section of the population to their resources, their emotional resources abroad.
25:15That's that's that is what led the spark.
25:19And I think only in his autocratic fashion, which he's been showing again and again in recent years has just failed to see it.
25:31Sorry. Yeah.
25:32But the question comes, therefore, Amitabh Mattu, you know, the question comes, Amitabh Mattu, given that, as I said, there seems to be now chronic instability.
25:42Nine changes of governments in the last decade, the constitution, which many thought would bring stability to Nepal is clearly not done this.
25:51There is a tiny sliver of a class which has benefited hugely from government contracts, cronyism.
25:58But a vast majority of the people still live a very, very meager lives.
26:03Is there anything in your view that India can do at the moment?
26:08Or do we simply wait and watch to see what happens in Nepal next?
26:14Again, going back to the Bangladesh panel, there we were seen to have put all our eggs in Sheikh Hasina's basket.
26:20Can India do anything differently in Nepal compared to Bangladesh?
26:25I think Ambassador Sood has pointed out that there isn't still any sense that India is going to be blamed for the problems, which is very encouraging.
26:37And what you need to do to ensure that that discourse doesn't take shape is one, wait and watch.
26:45Have the strategic patience not to be immediately reactive.
26:49Secondly, I think it's important to recognize that the democratic bulge, the young people of South Asia are going to be its most important stakeholder.
27:00So you need to engage them, offer them scholarships. I know this might come later, but ways of engaging the young people in a manner that we haven't done so far.
27:13We have engaged with the elites because we were familiar with the elites.
27:18There was a certain relationship between Indian political actors and the Nepalese elite.
27:23But that needs to change. You need to now invest in relations with these young people.
27:28Thirdly, in terms of governance, especially e-governance, I think there are lessons that India has best practices that can be adopted.
27:37Remember, this technology is a big genie. It's almost turning out to be a Frankenstein's monster.
27:43The ban on these social media applications was a result of a Supreme Court direction that all these applications, whether it's Meta or Alphabet, needed to set up an office in Nepal, have a grievance sell.
27:58Prima facie, not a bad idea. Prima facie, completely reasonable.
28:03But none of them, neither Facebook or X or WhatsApp, has set up an office or a grievance judicial mechanism.
28:14But because there is this social media addiction, as well as the fact that you are dependent on the social media for new information and now with WhatsApp and others and Facebook and also for remittances.
28:27Therefore, the ban caused this great implosion, which was waiting to happen.
28:35You require that catalyst.
28:37But I think India could potentially, in terms of cyber governance, in terms of digital governance, given that the India stack itself offers a more or better governance, could offer lessons to Nepal.
28:52But most importantly, I think India needs to do it, not in any way, in any patronizing fashion, but being seen as a partner, as a partner of not just leaders, but of the people of Nepal.
29:04Because that is your constituency of the future, the young people of Nepal, not the old cynical leaders of the past.
29:13One final question, Rakeshud, what do you think happens next? Is there a real possibility of the army choosing to take over to stabilize Nepal?
29:27Do you see an interim government of the kind we saw in Bangladesh or do you see fresh polls being called instantly?
29:34A quick answer.
29:36Rajdeep, Rajdeep, the problem is that the Gen Z that is leading this revolt, as the popular media calls it, doesn't have a leader and we don't know what they want.
29:53They are upset with the constitution.
29:55In fact, there were a whole number of constitutional amendments that were being talked about in social media.
30:03Now, if many of these are very, very significant constitutional amendments.
30:10So therefore, given the fact that the political leaders of all the major political parties are in disgrace.
30:19I mean, tomorrow, let's say if Sher Bahadur Dioba was to become prime minister within 24 hours, he would be out or Prachanda.
30:28So we are looking at a complete rejection of some of these guys.
30:35So I do not know whether the constitutional framework that was built over a period of seven years, which came into being in 2015, is going to stick or not stick.
30:50That constitutional framework created a federal republic of Nepal.
30:57Now, if there are going to be changes in the constitution, who's going to bring about those changes?
31:03I cannot, will there be a new constitutional assembly?
31:08Will there be a new parliament?
31:09Because they are asking for dissolution of parliament.
31:12So I think that right now we are in a state of complete uncertainty.
31:18And now, as far as Nepal is concerned, nobody really knows because nobody's in charge.
31:24Now, were the president at this stage to choose to say, all right, first order of the day is to restore law and order.
31:39Then the only institution that can be called out is the army.
31:46And then comes the question as to who then gets appointed.
31:50And that's what's happened.
31:51But we don't know whether…
31:52Not yet.
31:53Not yet.
31:54I don't think the army is being called out to restore law and order.
31:58We don't know whether the army will actually take control…
32:01No, no.
32:02The army may not take control…
32:03But whether that will actually result in the army sort of taking over the country?
32:07No, no.
32:08I don't think the army is going to take over the country.
32:10Right.
32:11It's one thing to take control of law and order.
32:12It's another thing to take control of the…
32:13No, no.
32:14You can then ask a retired chief justice or somebody to form an interim government for a limited period
32:20who can then engage in dialogue with civil society leaders, political party leaders, etc., etc.,
32:28with a view to creating a consensus on what is the way forward, whether we should have a new constitution, whether…
32:36So, we are in a very, very gray zone.
32:42Let me leave it there, Rakesh, because clearly we are seeing a very, very uncertain situation developing in a Himalayan Republic,
32:51a country with which we share civilizational ties, borders, and a country where…
32:58which we need to look at very, very carefully.
33:01Yet another country in our neighborhood is on the boil.
33:04And that does have important implications for India.
33:07Amitabh Mattu and Rakesh Sud for sharing your wisdom on the show this evening.
33:12Thank you very much.
33:14I want to turn from there to an exclusive.
33:18The India Today South Conclave concluded today in Coimbatore.
33:22Among our stellar guests on day two was the Karnataka Deputy Chief Minister D.K. Shiv Kumar, someone who is never far away from controversy.
33:31The latest being when he recited the RSS anthem in the Karnataka Assembly.
33:36D.K. Shiv Kumar, though, clarified today he has never had anything to do with the RSS.
33:42He is a proud Hindu but respects all religions.
33:46But he says he will live and die as a congressman and, in fact, insists that Rahul Gandhi will be the Prime Minister of the country in 2029.
33:56Let's listen in to D.K. Shiv Kumar speaking out on a variety of issues.
34:13Very clearly, November 20th, two and a half years will be completed of the Karnataka government under Mr. Siddharamaya.
34:21The buzz in Delhi and Bengaluru is that there was some kind of an arrangement.
34:25Two and a half years, Mr. Siddharamaya as Chief Minister, two and a half years, Mr. D.K. Shiv Kumar.
34:31Am I therefore talking to the next Chief Minister of Karnataka?
34:35It is B, me and my leadership, me and my party, and me and Mr. Siddharamaya.
34:44So my party high command is whole and soul for us.
34:49We go by their directions.
34:52Whatever they decide, we accept, we work.
34:56We have promised to the people of Karnataka, we will give a good government with good governance.
35:05That is the most important thing.
35:07Is there a hope, an expectation?
35:09You have often been open about the fact that why should I not be considered as a Chief Minister?
35:14So is that a hope that you could succeed Mr. Siddharamaya one day?
35:18See, all, anyone in this world has to live on hope.
35:24Without hope, there is no life.
35:27Few days ago, few weeks ago, this happened.
35:31And I am going to play the video.
35:33And I want you today, once and for all, to settle it.
35:35This happened in the Karnataka assembly.
35:37Please take a look at this video.
35:39And then I want Mr. Shiv Kumar to respond to it.
35:42Producer, if you can play the video, please.
35:45Okay, the video was of you at the Karnataka assembly reciting a RSS song.
36:03Immediately, it was picked upon by your rivals, BJP and in Congress to say D.K. Shiv Kumar is already half one foot in the BJP RSS.
36:14Settle it for now.
36:16Is it true that you were once in the RSS as a young man?
36:20Is it true that you are being approached by the BJP?
36:22What is the truth?
36:23See, I am a born congressman.
36:25I will die as a congressman.
36:27That is number one.
36:30Number two, see, I am a political leader.
36:35I am not a good student.
36:38I was not a graduate.
36:39I became a graduate at the age of 46.
36:4346.
36:44When I was a final year student, I contested assembly against Mr. Devagoda.
36:49Then Rajiv Gandhi gave me a ticket.
36:52So, to enter politics, to know, first you should know yourself, your surrounding, and your enemies.
37:02Who are your enemies?
37:04So, I have been looking at various political parties.
37:07I should know what is the strength of BJP.
37:10The strength of BJP, it doesn't have any ideology.
37:14The ideology has been picked by the RSS.
37:17What is RSS?
37:18How they are doing?
37:20What is communist?
37:22Or what other regional parties are there?
37:24What is Jantadal?
37:26The anti or the dissidents or any other issues, the Jantadal came to existence in Karnataka.
37:33Then later, these fractions then converted into BJP.
37:39So, I should know who is my strength.
37:41That is, I know how RSS is grooming the BJP.
37:45Earlier, only two leaders were there in this country.
37:47Atal B.R. watch band, Advani.
37:50How they picked it up?
37:51All these things I had to make a study to see that.
37:54That is how I was so confident when the results were supposed to come.
38:00I remember your anchor in Panipat.
38:03When I was going to Barajol Yatra, she asked me, what you are telling?
38:08I said, you take it on record.
38:10136 is my number.
38:12You also came to me.
38:13I said to you also, Rajiv, you go ahead.
38:16136 will be my number.
38:18That was my number.
38:19That was my number.
38:20This is my number.
38:21223, 28.
38:23Again, I will come to you.
38:25That will be.
38:26You also will tell.
38:27Again, Congress party will come to Karnataka again.
38:29And you will congratulate me that day.
38:32So you have become a pollster.
38:34You are saying you got 136 in the last election.
38:36You predicted it.
38:37You are predicting a Congress victory in 2028.
38:39But let me settle this.
38:41You are saying never a question of having anything to do with the RSS.
38:45You will not become an Eknath Shinde-like figure if you are denied chief ministership.
38:49It is not the question.
38:51There is no point.
38:53No one has looked at me also.
38:56Sometime they might have looked at.
38:59See, someone is at the riping stage when fruit become, when mango, it is green, no one
39:05will throw stones.
39:06One, it will be ripe for someone.
39:07They feel that.
39:08Some may have tried.
39:09I don't tell no to it.
39:11But there is no question.
39:12My loyalty to the Gandhi family is different.
39:15It is the Gandhi family has kept this party and the country united.
39:20See, I had a touring theater at my younger days.
39:24I named it after Indra Gandhi.
39:27The day she died, I named my theater as Indra Gandhi.
39:31Indraji Chitra Mandiri.
39:33That is her.
39:34So you are a born congressman.
39:35You will die as a congressman.
39:36Of course.
39:37See, even for SM Krishna, before leaving the congress party before early day, Amad bai called
39:44me.
39:45I went, no one picked the phone.
39:48He was not.
39:49I just tried to pick the phone and give to him and made him to speak.
39:53I wanted him to die as a congressman.
39:55That was my desire.
39:56Because congress party, for me also, chief minister is not important.
40:01I have built, see, when I came here, you see thousands of people receiving me, speaking
40:06to me and all.
40:08I don't want to be, for my selfish reason, I don't want to be.
40:11Power comes, nothing can escape out of me.
40:15It will come.
40:16But I have to do hard work.
40:18Hard work will definitely pay and I am confident on that.
40:22Then why did you have to apologize for this?
40:24No.
40:25See, some of them, see, I don't want someone to be a little bit, create nuisance and all.
40:31My ego is not important.
40:32Ego is not important.
40:34So, okay, let all of them be happy.
40:37They feel their doubt.
40:38They create controversy.
40:39And the biggest enemy is the media again.
40:41They will try to, see, I just tried to point it out.
40:44I was pulling the BJP like, what do you know BJP?
40:47I know better BJP than you, I said.
40:49Because I have studied.
40:51I have studied everything.
40:52I have studied Chani Keneti.
40:54I have studied Mahabharata.
40:55I have studied Ramayana.
40:57I have studied various issues in political angle.
41:00I know about Baswana.
41:01I know about Allama Prabhu.
41:03And all things I have studied because it is very much needed.
41:06Though I was not a well-educated man, in the later I thought that at the young age I went.
41:11I have been in the assembly last eight terms.
41:14Eight terms I am there.
41:16I had to know things known.
41:18But therefore are you blaming the media for creating this constant Siddharamaya versus Shivkumar battle?
41:24Of course.
41:25Otherwise they will not have any other news, no?
41:27They have to play and sing.
41:28They have to create themselves.
41:30No, but the MLA's themselves openly come and say we want Shivkumar as CM.
41:33Someone said no, we want Siddharamaya as CM.
41:36That is all there.
41:37Some of them will have likings.
41:39What to do?
41:40Some like, some doesn't dislike.
41:42Is that the big problem in the Congress?
41:45Too many factions?
41:46No faction.
41:47There is only one faction.
41:49That is the Indian National Congress faction.
41:52I want to put one more national question to you.
41:57Dharamstala.
41:58Dharamstala, when what happened in Dharamstala, there was this entire controversy created of 17 burial sites.
42:05The temple was being attacked.
42:08There were charges being made.
42:10Now it turns out that this could be a big hoax.
42:13A conspiracy is what the opposition is saying to discredit the temple.
42:19What is your view?
42:20Do you believe that this whole Dharamstala controversy was created, manufactured?
42:25See, my High Command asked me, one of my, I don't want to disclose the name of my High Command.
42:32One day when I was traveling, they asked me about this question.
42:35I said, you don't involve.
42:37This is all hope.
42:39It is all, it is all bogus.
42:44Let Congress party, any point of night interfere, because I know Dharamstala well.
42:49It is an internal squabbling between the BJP and the RSS.
42:56Dharamstala is an internal squabble between BJP and RSS.
43:01Yes, I am on record.
43:04I am on record, 100% on record.
43:07If you want, I will give the documentation.
43:10I will give the statements.
43:12I will give the speeches of then the BJP president, the BJP ministers of the district,
43:18and the Hindu Parishat, the RSS leaders, all of them.
43:24Okay.
43:25All I am telling you this on record on a national channel.
43:31You have an SIT, then the SIT should expose this.
43:34Of course, it will do.
43:35It is on the job.
43:37We will have to do.
43:38We have to share to the country.
43:40This is not a Dharamstala problem.
43:42It has become a national problem.
43:44Dharamstala.
43:45It is the belief.
43:47See, I know Viran Rayeghde and Dharamstala.
43:51That is, it is on faith.
43:54People believe of that.
43:55There is a court.
43:57Still the court is running there.
43:59Okay.
44:00You are making a very important claim.
44:03You are claiming that this is an internal battle between the BJP and RSS which is reflected
44:08in Dharamstala.
44:09See, none of them, they wanted this to happen.
44:14They thought that something will come out.
44:17None of them till I said in the assembly floor of the house that there is a big conspiracy.
44:23No one opened their mouth.
44:24Now everyone is trying to take the claim of it.
44:27They are trying.
44:28Again, a group goes there to do politics and they goes to someone XYZ house.
44:34Do you really believe that the Congress can return to power in Karnataka in 28?
44:39Because Karnataka has seen every five years government changing.
44:42Over the last 25 years, governments have changed every five years.
44:46Do you really believe that the people of Karnataka are still trusting the Congress party?
44:52See, in politics, nothing is permanent.
44:57Nothing is permanent.
44:59Nothing is permanent.
45:01See, people of Karnataka are very matured people.
45:06You see, at the time of Ram Krishna, there was a big, in the parliament election, when Rajiv Gandhi came to power.
45:14He took a decision.
45:16He dissolved for a clear mandate.
45:19The party helped him.
45:21He ruled for seven, eight years.
45:22Two terms he was there.
45:24Devrajaras.
45:25Again, he did it.
45:27I am sure the way we are working, people have confidence with us on the state.
45:34You take it from me, 2028, you will have a Congress government.
45:392028 Congress government, what about 2029 Lok Sabha?
45:44Because last time in Karnataka in 2024, BJP got more seats than the Congress in Karnataka.
45:50You were reduced to single digits.
45:52Are we very clear that people want Narendra Modi as Prime Minister, BJP at power in the center, Congress may be in the state?
45:59See, sun will rise and sun will set.
46:04There is a time for everyone.
46:06The era of everyone.
46:08I think Narendra Modi, I don't want to talk much on national politics on this issue, but I am very confident Rahul Gandhi will be the next Prime Minister of this country in 2029.
46:22People say, oh, DK Shiv Kumar was seen with Amit Shah at some Isha Foundation function.
46:27DK Shiv Kumar is going to a temple while you went to the Kumbh Mela, you praised Yogi Adityanath for arrangements.
46:34You are a deeply religious man.
46:36Am I correct?
46:37Of course.
46:38See, my name is DK Shiv Kumar.
46:42Shiv Kumar.
46:43Can I change my name?
46:45See, here, Chief Minister Mr. Stalin is here.
46:50I think even his father said that we don't believe in God and anything we have.
46:56But in this state, how many temples?
47:00How can Tamil Nadu survive without temples and religion?
47:03It is not possible.
47:05And there is a difference between being a Hindu and Hindutva.
47:08See, I, being a Hindu, I respect all religion.
47:13They have, it is their faith.
47:15See, I can't stop Hindu, some Christians or minority leaders coming to a Hindu temple.
47:22They can.
47:24We go to mass, we go to churches, we go to gurudwaras.
47:28Lot of, they pray Chamundeshwari.
47:31They pray this one.
47:33It is their belief.
47:34So you are a proud Hindu, but you will accommodate every other religion, live and let live.
47:39Of course.
47:40Tolerance and mutual respect.
47:41Yes, yes, yes.
47:42It is their belief.
47:43Some love Buddhism, some love Jainism, some love the hard work of Jainism.
47:49Christian, I respect everyone.
47:51But 25, 30 years back.
47:52I met Sonia Gandhi at the time of Ugadi festival.
47:58Ugadi.
47:59Ugadi.
48:00I met her one day after she became the president, myself and three of them.
48:05They were festive.
48:06They were festive.
48:07In their house they were doing Ugadi.
48:09In Karnataka there was Ugadi festival.
48:11I said in our village Ugadi festival is there myself, my wife, my young daughter, we had gone
48:16to meet her.
48:17In their house also they were festive.
48:18In their house also they were festive.
48:20Ugadi.
48:21They said in Kashmir and there they are also doing festival.
48:25She came to, at Bharat Jodha Yatra time, she came to Mysore.
48:32Dasara time.
48:33She went to Durga temple.
48:37She just took us from our local MLA and without informing anyone.
48:41She went to a Durga temple.
48:43She prayed there at the time of Dasara.
48:45She came, went back to her room.
48:47Because there is a controversy in Karnataka.
48:49Banu Mushtaq has been invited for the Chamundeshwari, to the Chamundeshwari temple during Dasara.
48:54BJP, BJP, they are just saying politics.
48:56They don't have anything to do, no?
48:58They can't bring one rupee to Karnataka.
49:00No MPs is raising their voice.
49:03They have not supported anything.
49:05They could not bring, take any single decision to be helped Karnataka.
49:13DK Shiv Kumar there, speaking on a variety of issues.
49:16You can catch the entire conversation on our YouTube channel and all the conversations on the India Today South Conclave.
49:22When we return, we'll turn to someone who has finally broken the radio silence among cricketers over the stampede that took place in Bengaluru in June following RCB's IPL victory.
49:36Dinesh Karthik tells us just what that stampede did to the psyche of the cricketers.
49:43Back in a moment.
49:44You are watching the news today.
49:46News without the noise.
49:48Now, ever since that terrible stampede took place outside the Chinnaswami Stadium in Bengaluru after RCB's IPL triumph with 10 people dying, cricketers have been mostly silent over what happened that fateful day.
50:05But one of them now, RCB's mentor and former India cricketer, Dinesh Karthik has broken the radio silence over that issue.
50:13He spoke to us at the India Today South Conclave and expressed the feelings of the players after they heard the news of the stampede.
50:22Listen in.
50:23Can I ask you though, that it all didn't end as well as it should have because of the stampede that took place in Bengaluru.
50:31As players, when you look back at it, should it have been done differently?
50:35The fact that there seemed to be this over enthusiasm on the part of the fans, on the part of the organizers, on the part of the franchise, you go and hold a parade and eventually it ends in a stampede.
50:47Did that affect you all as players when you heard about it?
50:50So we were in Bangalore and you've got to understand that we were told to go to an event, we went and then when we got news, we were sent back.
51:04I don't think we even understood what had happened.
51:07It was beyond us.
51:10You've got to understand, we are just sportsmen, we are playing a sport and something like this happens.
51:15You just don't know how to react and that was my first instinct like, you know, people losing lives.
51:26Could it change?
51:27I really wish it could because it completely changed the mood.
51:31Even now speaking about it, when you showed me the pictures, I almost wanted to say,
51:37Sir, it's great to see but, you know, let's move on.
51:42Because the aftertaste that it left, there's been absolute radio silence from us players.
51:49And it was, as you would know, RCB is such a well-supported franchise and it completely finished whatever our celebrations could have been.
52:00So it is arguably one of the saddest things that I have been, I feel even wrong to say I've been part of because I cannot even empathize what those parents and the families must go through.
52:12But all I can say is, you know, I just hope that in some way that we can, you know, repay them in whatever way possible.
52:21And these are events that's happened, you know, in some football teams as well in different ways.
52:26And it's very hard to digest and accept, honestly, to have known that you were there and thereabouts and things like this happen.
52:35It's very unfair and all I can say is, you know.
52:38Dinesh Karthik speaking on the Bengaluru Stampede.
52:42Now, remember, the Asia Cup starts tomorrow and India kicks off its campaign tomorrow.
52:47One person who will be missing is Shreyas Iyer.
52:50Dinesh Karthik in that interview also strongly batted for Shreyas Iyer to be included in the Indian squad.
52:57Listen in.
52:59So can I headline it and say Dinesh Karthik would like to see Shreyas Iyer in the World T20 team?
53:05India's World T20 team?
53:08If that is what you've got after me saying all this, I think that would be a pretty unfair headline
53:12because after the squad is put, they also put five other standbys.
53:17Now, in that five standbys, also Shreyas Iyer wasn't there.
53:20And that didn't sit well with me, which basically means they're not looking at him for the near future.
53:25And that would mean to the World Cup because India finished the Asia Cup.
53:28They have a couple of bilaterals and after which they have the World Cup, which I feel is very unfair.
53:32And I think there is no way that he shouldn't have missed those five players.
53:35He should have been part of the conversations in the lead up to the T20 World Cup.
53:40And I really wish he makes it to that T20 World Cup because he deserves it.
53:44Okay, as I said, Dinesh Karthik, just one of the many stellar speakers that we had at the India Today South conclave
53:52that concluded in Coimbatore today.
53:54You can catch all the conversations on India Today's YouTube channel and other platforms.
54:00For now, from the entire team here.
54:03Thanks for watching.
54:04Stay well.
54:05Stay safe.
54:06Good night.
54:07Shubratri.
54:08Jai Hind.
54:09Namaskar.
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