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LearningTranscript
00:00hello everybody uh i'm michael from new left and for the first time we are doing an international
00:20interview with barbara steiner barbara please introduce yourself hi michael hi tim nice to
00:30join you i'm the director of transform europe transform europe is the foundation of the party
00:39of the european left and a network of 38 organizations in 22 european countries not
00:47only eu but european countries we are a european network for alternative thinking and political
00:57dialogue what does it mean we are engaged in political education and critical scientific
01:03analysis and we are also a room for dialogue between political actors activists unions
01:12uh movements uh and ngos pretty broad scope so this will be the topic of our discussion today how
01:23transform is actually functioning where it started etc etc team what about you who are you people don't
01:30know you okay so i'm tim malone i'm um currently a publicity officer for union and i largely it union
01:40here in slovakia and you are a member of the new life as well yeah and i'm british i'm from manchester
01:50my wife is slovak which is why i'm here i was recently the chair of the union um in fyserv but um
02:00laid off as we've discussed by frank bazignano last november but so now i'm looking for work but uh
02:08public time to work on the publicity for the union thank you so as i said the topic of our this
02:16discussion today is transform so barbara if you could please describe what transform does where it
02:22started what is it about give us a little bit more detail just one thing that you omitted i think you
02:28didn't say that you are based in vienna but you are managing all of europe when i understood it correctly
02:34right yes the coordination office of transform is in vienna um unlike the other found political
02:44foundations like the green european foundation or the febs of the social democrats who have their
02:52headquarter in brussels we are in central and eastern europe with our coordination office this
03:00gives us also the advantage of being closer to eastern europe and this is also that we are maybe
03:11going to talk about it had been a long time a blind spot also in the european left the left of central
03:18and eastern europe and uh since uh 10 years now transform is um following a central and eastern european
03:26strategy um to put more emphasis on um following uh and making contact and cooperation with the left
03:35in central and eastern europe and uh southeastern europe um also if there are no uh parties but
03:43uh there are as nova uh organizations uh in these countries and so it's very nice to be in contact
03:52uh with you now thank you very much uh when you are saying europe you mean only european union or are
03:59there also countries from uh abroad european union in eastern and central europe that you are working with
04:05you know former yugoslavia countries or i don't know exactly and stuff like that as well yes especially um at the
04:12moment we work together with ikech from albania and the center for politics of emancipation in serbia
04:23we have also a member in moldavia in turkey in norway um i know this because i know this by heart because
04:35the european parliament we are basically to a big extent funded by the european parliament
04:42they always check okay are you working with non-eu um country-based organizations because there is
04:51also um for example a law that um um that does forbid to receive money from non-eu sources this was
05:02introduced um to european elections ago when steve bannon announced to support the extreme right
05:10it is now also used uh especially controlled whether parties receive funding from russia or from china
05:18but also us but it applies of course also for other non-eu countries nonetheless we think
05:24uh europe is more than you and we follow this pan european uh thought so to say and and principle
05:33and are happy to work together also with not what about turkey you know it's it's it's part of europe but
05:39it's not what about turkey yes our member organization is the blog uh of of the left party that is also
05:49member of european left party but we are in contact of course also with the democratic party former hdp
05:56um and uh in in solidarity with the peace uh process and now of course hoping
06:03that actually might be be finally liberated and uh that a solution to the kurdish question uh becomes
06:14more realistic it does not look so good with erdogan but uh let's see and any groups from britain that you
06:25work with uh yes uh our member organization um transform uk um is uh affiliated to left unity a small left
06:36party that is also member of european left party and um we have also as an observer uh the world transformed
06:46that used to be uh the festival organized by momentum uh around uh corbyn uh we do cooperate now with
06:55corbyn's new organization uh for for peace uh and um he's we are happy that uh and and honored that he's
07:07a frequent uh speaker also at events we do in cooperation with the european left party
07:13like european forum um and we also hope to have him at the peace conference in brussels in june
07:22where we want to have a broad um mobilization just after the anti-nato and nato summit and anti-nato summit
07:31and the hague in june
07:32okay question uh when we are talking about all these countries what about slovakia and czech republic
07:44so what are the connections there are you working with someone in czech republic or in slovakia and what
07:49are your contacts and what are your experiences with our well co-patriots um the relations um to check
07:58uh left is um deeper i would say um the um not founding but very um more or less from the beginning
08:11uh um early 2000s um since the founding of of transform the official founding was in 2007
08:20so but the unofficial founding as a network was already in the early 2000s around the world social
08:26forum process and there is um the center for uh european dialogue spit um that understood itself
08:35also as a room for dialogue between um the um party of democratic socialism now levitzer
08:43uh and ksgm the uh communist party of bohemia and moravia so they were also what what transform is
08:51also doing being a room for dialogue for for different uh left-wingers and they are um um part of of the
08:59board uh of the elected board of transform also and we uh do have um of course um connections to both
09:08parties they are also both in the european left party and um there is a connection of course also
09:17rosa luxembourg foundation is bigger than transform but it's also a member of transform rosa luxembourg
09:24foundation the foundation of the link in germany and they have also an office in prague so we are
09:32connected with them in uh slovakia um we have for example exchange with the socialisti sk um the
09:43left-wing organization uh in in slovakia they are also have been at the folktime fest which is an
09:51austrian festival in the tradition of the press festivals uh folktime used to be the daily press of
10:00the communist party in austria now is a monthly journal and folktime fest is uh always having
10:06also a european village where transform europe is also involved and there for example we met with
10:12socialisti sk but also the ksgm um from czechia has uh traditionally a stand there in a quite big
10:22delegation uh it's in vienna this village can you please tell us when it takes place so that people
10:27from bratislava or whoever wants to visit can yes the festival is one hour right so it's you know
10:34nearby yes you're warmly uh welcome and it's really great fun with um great discussions but also music
10:42drinks uh celebration it's always the last yes it's always the last weekend uh of the austrian
10:52summer holidays so this year it will be the 31st of august and first of september okay it's always
11:00two days uh a weekend and it's in vienna somewhere in vienna based yeah it's in sorry it's on the 30th
11:07and 31st of august okay um it's the the weekend and it's in yes we've seen the prata okay um it's a huge
11:17green area stick the name in the chat yes yeah yeah teams german isn't outstanding yeah that the the
11:27jesuit's uh meadow um in the prata prata used to be a hunting grounds of the emperors and now is
11:36one of the biggest green parks i put it much much better use for it thank you yes uh well uh we will
11:48think about it i mean not think about it in that sense but we want to propagate it so uh because we
11:54have relatively big facebook page in slovakia with over 10 000 followers so you know we can run some ads
12:01for bratislava folks who want to if they want to go there then it's it's a one hour train ride and
12:08you can meet fellow lefties i guess from all around europe or is it only central european uh happening um
12:16well germany germans link is always so uh represented with a big tent always and they also come with the
12:24original thuringian um sausages sausages okay yes and um there is also um yeah um cuban uh stand it's not
12:40in the european village of course cuban embassy also represented there there is uh traditionally also in
12:47the solidarity village um uh stand from nicaragua a stand from um chile um argentine so it's very
12:58international uh and um yeah and many kordish or turkish uh stands of course also yugoslavian
13:07and you're more than welcome for the audience we will put the link barbara so kindly shared with us now
13:14uh into the notes to the call and to the video so that people can follow it and go there if they
13:19want team any questions no no okay uh interviewer okay barbara so tell us how you came to be a
13:28transform director what was your kind of path how did you end up where you are and you know how it all
13:34happened and uh do you like it what do you see for the future you know what's going on um i
13:44did in 2010 a study for transform i'm a political scientist about the elections uh the european
13:54union union elections in 2009 compared to 2004 so i looked at the various um left-wing parties um
14:06in in whole eu and uh compared so to say their um electoral um results this was the so to say the first
14:17job for transform and um in 2010 um it quite uh soon uh became clear transform was only two um
14:32employees back then that they need more support in the office here in vienna it was back then um
14:39walter bayer um one of the co-founders of transform um and now president of european left party for a
14:48long time he had been the coordinator of transform europe and uh together sorry to jump in so that
14:54people understand and notice that even though austria is in the european parliament in the left
15:00fraction the head of the left is in austria or in vienna correct um he is austrian yes um walter is
15:11traveling quite a lot yes obviously but you don't have any any any radical left in austria from austria
15:20in european parliament the same way as slovaks don't have anyone and and the czechs even though the czechs had
15:26the communist uh mp in last parliament when i remember it also in this parliament yes well it's
15:34it's tricky because we can also speak about it or talk about it about this division in the left what
15:39happened a couple of weeks ago a month ago what's going on there because that's uh well interesting
15:46topic and people should know about it anyway so even though austria has no party in european parliament
15:54in the left in the left the head of the all of european left is an austrian guy yeah maybe it's
15:59important to have here the um division between the european left party and the euro and the left
16:07faction for magua ngl now left um in the european parliament so it's not the same the um the party um there
16:17is also other um parties member also of non-eu origin uh and the faction of course constitutes only of
16:28those parties that entered the european so so the party is kind of like a tent and under the umbrella
16:35and under this umbrella there are some parties who are in eu parliament and some who are not yeah and
16:41all of this is under the umbrella of uh of your colleague uh uh fellow from austria correct well to
16:49be um correct one would have to say now there are two tents now because yeah last of european left
16:58party that you were already um pointing it and um the there is now a split in the european left uh
17:07party landscape the european left el and then the european left alliance ella so some parties left uh
17:16from the european left party uh and also together with other parties uh founded uh this new uh party
17:26okay so that means that there are actually two heads for for both parties yeah one is uh the
17:33colleague of yours from austria and there is another party whoever that is yeah and you are you are you
17:39are in the uh in the tent of the old party as a transform institute and as a head of the transform
17:45institute yes this is excuse me this is this is why i'm asking these questions because this is totally
17:52new landscape for for us in slovakia we are not part of it uh socialist is part of it partially but
18:00otherwise slovakia is more or less dead on the left spectrum so this is totally terra incognita for
18:07myself i don't know about tim maybe he knows this european nitty-gritty details what's going on
18:15in the left but i don't i'm curious really the difference is why people are leaving and what the
18:23the juncture is of the break and trying to summarize it in such a short time might be very difficult but
18:28uh is it um there's quite a number of left-wing groups that would be opposed to uh austerity
18:37programs that is popular amongst much of the right wing right now is is that a juncture that is causing
18:45problems on the left as well is to to what extent they seize control of the means of production or that
18:51they allow private sector but want a more keynesian um type of social democratic view in what where's the
19:02the friction within this alliance as to how left-wing the different groups are
19:10thanks for the question i'm not sure i'm not sure whether i'm making myself clear really but you know
19:13yeah okay um actually um uh the anti-austerity movement um of 2000 the cry after the crisis and and
19:26and the crisis mismanagement um of 2008 9 and following uh brought together the the left and uh also the um
19:39what was now a cleavage that um um is so to say a problem is the um uh the war and and the question
19:50of how to reach peace but because so if you look at el and ela you will find 95 of the content and the
20:00demands and um is is similar is the same but um you have some um points like as regards to weapons
20:10delivery and support of ukraine where there are differences but and this is the interesting thing
20:17it's not that whole ella is in favor of weapons delivery because you have the very strong opposition
20:24to nato and um uh and weapons delivery in podemos for example which is also part of of uh ella so it's
20:33not so very clear that it is also in homogenous so to say uh on this uh question um i think
20:43well we in transform we are very sad about this split uh we think that now with the rise of the
20:49extreme right and the the political and economical crisis we are in globally it's the worst time for
20:56a split of course um but it is as it is and we try to be transformed for all we do everything to try
21:03to keep uh the bridges to keep the doors open to keep the dialogue party foundations of parties that are
21:11in the new part in ella are also inside to transform europe network so uh this is a big advantage and
21:20a big chance we think to keep these doors open and um well we we are still trying to to have so to say
21:28projects with with both uh parties and and exchange um yes we we uh we will see what what the future will
21:40bring here and if uh in the future there will be a reunification at some point again to jump in what
21:47i heard the rumors when i spoke with my czech uh friends is that there are some personality clashes
21:54more like the you know the the the the positional clashes that it was more about well human i don't
22:04know how to put it you know something human esprit i don't know how to put it that uh that led to this
22:11split i think um where there is politics and when where there are humans it's always natural that there
22:18are also conflicts or human yeah it's only human um i'm not sure if this was the the main reason
22:30uh i probably there is also cultural differences um and yeah it might also go together with uh and
22:39they said also something like statutes or the way how the old party was functioning that it was sub
22:47optimal setup and and this was also one of the reasons why it happened so from what i understood it
22:55looks more like a promising kind of tidying up of the situation because it grew organically it seems
23:03and certain things were not thought through and now the consequences of this sub-optimal statutes are
23:10you know biting you back from the past was it part of the reason i'm not an expert on european
23:17left statute but what i know is that the question of the consensus principle was heavily criticized
23:26by those parties that are now uh forming you know something similar like in european union when you have
23:33a democracy base that everyone has to agree as we are experiencing for a couple of years now and
23:40there is this one culprit like hungary who wants to exploit this rule and all the others have to kind
23:47of i don't know how to put it here bribe this one party of one country then it might lead to more
23:54troubles and more turmoil than it's necessary because majority is on the same page anyway so i don't know
24:00that's that's what i heard so i'm asking because it might be similar dynamic like in european union if the
24:07the way how it was set up in the left was similar how the whole european union was set up from the
24:13beginning no no uh in in the european left party there was the principle of consensus um so this comes
24:21from basis democracy or rather uh and the what we observe in european union also with the weight of
24:29european parliament when it comes to decision making we always criticize a lack of democracy i think the
24:36critique for el uh statute and and decision finding was then rather that small parties that do not
24:44represent a lot of voters in their countries they do have the same uh vote inside the european left
24:52party but how else should it be but then of course with the consensus principle there is sometimes the
24:59the problem that decisions can be sorry to jump in what does it mean you are a political scientist so for
25:05you it's obvious but what does it mean consensus principle can you please explain it um that um
25:13it's a majority or no no everybody's on the same page everybody has to be hundred percent for whatever
25:20it is okay so hundred percent but not not the majority right i see a fundamental um
25:28problem problem really with with a coalition of different left-wing groups because it's quite easy
25:36to be anti-austerity it's quite easy to see the impacts of the banks being bailed out in 2008 and
25:43the crash and the right wing and the drift of racism across the whole of the continent so in that sense
25:48there's a coalition but at the same time that you have to be really clear what you what your goal is
25:54is what you want to replace it with and if you want to replace it with something harking back to
26:00keynesianism of the 60s or 70s is that possible in the in the current situation so we've had x 30 years
26:06of neoliberalism you have to be really clear what kind of society you want and at the same time there'll
26:13be huge differences between the left-wing groups as to to what extent you want to seize the means of
26:20production or are you somehow harking back to the 70s that you somehow want to return to the
26:26economies of social democracy that were then prevalent at the time before neoliberalism and and
26:32there's loads of room for for every middle ground between those two points and i don't believe that
26:40it can just come down to personalities you have to have a certain level of clarity about what you're
26:45aiming for otherwise you are going to have complete distinct positions even amongst the left-wing
26:52alliances you're anti-austerity you're anti-racism but what kind of society are you aiming for
27:01i think tim this is a weakness in general in the left that we know exactly what we are against but we
27:08have two less of a picture and utopia of what uh we want to reach uh the 2004 and the funding of the
27:16european left party it was a historical success because it was uh um an over uh coming of uh stalinism
27:27it was a funding um in in the the spirit to uh of together of of uh against uh the stalinist um
27:37deformation of our movement yeah and uh there were the um former communists still communist parties
27:44together with the renewed democratic socialist and renewed ecological left parties coming together
27:51this was a historic compromise i would say and as uh when it comes to uh the strategy or or or also the
27:58the goals so to say uh you always had i i think uh quite a diversity uh from from um seizing the means
28:08of production um to more reform-oriented politics i i think you always had a uh what all united uh is
28:18uh the overcoming uh capitalism overcoming patriarchy overcoming new colonial um exploitation uh internationalism
28:30uh i think those those grounds they were common but uh i guess it was always um as there were 40 parties
28:38so to say it was always a spectrum in some way it's it's whether you can believe that somehow you can
28:47grab the reins of the state and run it in a socialist fashion or whether the state is inherently capitalist
28:54and that actually it needs you know a complete overhaul and it that is a dilemma for much in the
29:00left because there is a belief that somehow if they merely get into power if they merely you know hold
29:06the reins of power then they can transform it and yet the history is one of disappointment and
29:13disillusionment as the actually when they get into power and they find themselves in charge of a
29:18capitalist economy that they then look very similar to those that they've been opposing
29:25because some of the decisions are forced on them or you know completely out of their control and yet
29:31they end up then in in positions of compromise to the point that their original supporters don't
29:36recognize what what they've joined you know we saw this you're not even you're not even grabbing the reins
29:44of the power many of the left-wing groups are saying we have to be a hundred percent clear now
29:51what we're actually aiming at you know
29:56but that doesn't that doesn't take away from the laudable attempt to oppose you know the rampant racism
30:06the rampant um the right wing are very very clear what they want to do and you know and the ultra the
30:15the things that would have been at one time completely beyond the pale are now coming back into fashion
30:21with you know trump and um and hungary and orban and feet all of them are you know completely
30:29undermining democracy don't give a damn about the the democratic principle they want very clearly to
30:35to kick out immigrants and to to push through privatization and to to force the workers to pay
30:41for the cost of any economic crisis so yeah it's i think there's definitely room for us to unite
30:50against their agenda at the same time it's difficult to keep that alliance together unless you
30:56have a very strong vision about what you're aiming for
30:59i find it always difficult the the notion of democracy because what we so to say get taught
31:11uh by by the liberals is democracy is you vote every four or five years
31:18and only the citizenship holders so to say what we are lacking is real democracies economic democracies
31:26is i mean uh half of our lives we are at the workplace but there is no democracy
31:31so how can you really talk of a democratic society so it's just um so to say we can introduce you know
31:43something even in such a small fledgling union as union yes we we get it right so that we are democratic
31:51and that the members can see that opportunity to influence the direction union takes we're not there
31:58yet but i think that that is a goal that we should aim for as you alluded to it a little bit i have a
32:05question about the uh role of the state and government uh for the left as a party of those two parties how
32:14they see it both agree that the state is necessary or are there any fractions that say they you know
32:21a proper anarchist it are against state so what's going on there because i can see that uh at least
32:28in slovakia and czech republic i'm not an expert that from my gut feeling i can see that the old communists
32:34uh and it is mega interesting they fell into the right-wing narratives in last couple of years i don't
32:43know about other countries but here in slovakia as the pandemic hit then there were more or less
32:50all of them in that uh anti anti-vaccination madness and uh you know it's it's it's it's in my
33:00for me it was interested to interesting to see though how how certain patterns of viewing the reality
33:07align and some well align another way because it's a vaccination let's let's take that as an
33:14another example what was the position on in the new left world was there a split or
33:20everyone agreed that yeah you know the doctors know better than some charlatans on youtube what to do
33:26uh these were many questions now uh no basically two about the state and the position of government
33:36in the left how it's perceived and the other about because as i said from my perspective the pandemic
33:44was a nice kind of test environment to see who stands where because the communists as i said at least
33:50in slovakia and czech republic went with the kind of neo-fascists in that narrative there we can see
33:56it with fitzo well he has an old communist and the communist party as well they they they moved to the
34:03right and they followed this trend since then basically not that they were ever proper leftists
34:10but but now it's just out in the open and obvious that it's not left anymore at all
34:16so european left was very clear abandon all patents on vaccinations uh provide proper health care
34:27expand health care uh expand uh salaries uh and uh infrastructure for health care this is so to say the
34:36the one of the key focus of of european left the health care workers uh and and the abolishing of
34:46so there was no anti-vaxxer undercurrent somewhere in the left because we could we have seen it in
34:52slovakia on the left spectrum as i said the old communists were mega anti-vaxxers i don't know about
35:01you mentioned the anarchists i i am not very i'm not an expert and i don't know much about the anarchist
35:08international uh but in austria it was interesting that uh out of a critique of the state uh and out of
35:19a critique of the authoritarian state and the authoritarian forms a state can can get it was mostly the
35:27elder anarchists that also somehow went with some right fingers in in this um measurement critique or
35:36anti-vaccine movement uh out of this you know this critique of the the state which of course is also
35:45justified i think that we had an authoritarian drive uh during the the pandemics uh and and also a
35:53surveillance uh um drive but um yeah there were some anarchists for austria i can say it in in europe i i
36:02could not tell um i uh and and the second question was the role of government and the dynamic in the
36:12left because as i said the communists are more pro-government the democratic socialists and anarchists
36:18like myself are well not so keen on government so what's going on there this is a very old question
36:25in uh the european left in transform in political science uh whether um well we had the example in
36:352015 in greece syriza um won the elections and um went to the government but they always said um
36:47we are in government but we don't have the power what does it mean it means a um you are not
36:54automatically having the bureaucracy in a country um and and so to say the um the the rule you might be
37:04in government but you are might not uh govern uh immediately and the second thing is uh what tim
37:12pointed out we are in a globalized um um world with a financialized economy uh and uh to uh get into
37:22government as a radical left in one small country in europe uh is not enough you're not in power the
37:32strings of power are multi-faceted and and confronting them and you know controlling them
37:41is a is uh requires a radical transformation of the current setup so seizing control of the
37:50government is one thing but seizing control of the state and it's and the way it operates is quite
37:56another task exactly and then it's only one state but our comrades from greece always told us
38:04well you want to be in solidarity with us uh but the the best thing you can do change the politics and
38:12change the governments of your countries only if we have a critical number of left-wing governments
38:18in europe we can even think of changing something uh but what was it did not happen not uh really in
38:26portugal not in spain back in this moment not in other countries uh to change the government to have
38:33back then uh radical left government in um series a government was simply crushed by the troika and and the european
38:42union states and um what we saw in parts of the left is uh okay syriza and greece it was a a nice reflection
38:52um um for for your solidarity aim uh but um it had not nothing to do with your struggles in in your
39:03countries that would have been necessary so to say so the the blaming series uh to being the traitors
39:11uh also i find it uh not really not good because what what uh we did we did not change our governments
39:21and and did not make possible a european white um change of politics
39:27how are the left is viewing the i would say success of the link in germany and also melanchon in france
39:37and the possibility of well hopefully uh even bigger win if really le pen is kind of pushed out we will
39:46see how that goes and well as far as i know the president of france can't go there for a third term
39:53so someone new has to step in so there is a window of opportunity let's put it that way in france
39:59so what are they saying about this um this is of course a big hope and we saw in france how fast
40:07it is possible for the left green and social lists to unite if there is really a if it is a question of
40:16survival if there is really the necessity so of course our big hope is that this can
40:21uh function and this can work again for the presidential election marine le pen is uh rightfully um
40:31well there there was a court decision so to say i would not call it being pushed out um and uh
40:39of course there there is a big hope that this uh new um popular front could could run again and uh could
40:49uh win uh for the presidential election and uh come back of the link is a big uh surprise for them for
41:00us for many and it gives of course a hope that it is possible in a very short time um to um have a
41:10come back as a link as a link as a left um defending um uh socioeconomic uh demands together with feminist
41:19demands together with anti-racist demands and not uh joining and with uh demands for peace so not
41:26joining this uh general trend uh that we see now all in favor of war and in favor of militarization
41:34i was looking in other countries uh when you're talking with the leftists from wherever where is
41:41the possibility to succeed as they succeeded back then with syriza and well i wouldn't call it a
41:47success what the link did but at least they are in parliament and they have almost nine percent so
41:52that's nice but the french and melanchine situation kind of showed us the other way around that the
41:58the liberals will stab you into your into your back and even the melanchine kind of won then they they
42:06got not much out of it so so how is it looking at the countries what is on the horizon the radical
42:13left is in a coalition government with the social democrats um this is not so much talked about this
42:20is not so sorry to jump in that spot demos or that's something else uh no it's uh called sumar it is
42:27an alliance of the united left uh with others and podemos isn't radical because in my mind podemos
42:34podemos is also radical but they are not in the government unfortunately they are not part of the
42:39government coalition anymore so there are multiple radical left parties and the spanish are so lucky that
42:46they can choose okay because we have no radical left party in our parliament at all in slovakia so yes of
42:53course in my opinion of course it would always be even better if all were united on radical left and uh
43:03what the um radical radical left ministers uh are doing in spain be it with the labor law or uh consumers law
43:12uh feminist um is um they really um uh bring forward concrete um concrete measurements that help uh people
43:24they introduced uh the 37 hours week an hour um abolished um insecure working contracts like millions of them
43:34so there there it is not like overthrowing capitalism but it is concrete um helpful um measures um they can do and
43:45and and and loss and another question that pops often into my head is the response of the leftists to
43:54the to the possibility that we had for let's say 10 years that we had the zero interest rates and the
44:02the failed possibility that we didn't invest in europe more or less at all into infrastructure and
44:09development of our continent so how are they viewing it i don't feel much you know self-criticism
44:18that uh this is this is a ship that sailed and might never return in our lifetimes it was
44:25once in a century couple of years of zero interest rates at least as far as i know that this is not
44:31something that is happening every other decade or what you know so when you look at the interest rates
44:37and uh long-term perspective or from the long-term perspective this was a missed opportunity par excellence
44:44that we kind of didn't do anything and we had this austerity measures instead and and we lost god knows
44:51what compared to china or america transform will uh in may bring out a comparative study of the next
45:02generation eu the recovery and resilience for after after the pandemic um and and their spending and it
45:09uh what i can already say now uh it clearly shows that it makes a difference uh whether there was a left
45:17social democratic government like in spain or whether there was a right-wing government like in italy how
45:23these uh funds were were spent and invested so it makes a difference if it is invested de facto
45:32bringing something uh for for workers and uh um and the people or if it again goes to uh the financial
45:41market so to say and um no i totally agree with you uh we see um now with the um investing and spending
45:53uh part of the budget on on military um equipment and on militarization it is possible but where was it
46:01possible for example after the pandemic there was the big investment to to health care uh sector
46:08and hospitals i don't know how many slovaks know this but in germany the under investment on into
46:16infrastructure and all the other things supposedly is one thousand millions so one trillion euros in
46:24germany only it's like it's it's falling apart there are bridges that just fell it just fell you know so
46:32so under investment germany is the biggest economy in europe and the third biggest economy
46:38economy in in the on the planet and when you compare it with china how they invested in that
46:43last 15 years period and what did they build well i i'm not aware of any bridges falling in china
46:50and okay it might be propaganda but still let's just look at the network of the speed speed rails or
46:57the new i don't know airports that they build or whatever the dams they just they are investing heavily into
47:06green technology europe is logging i mean it's a decade it looks like i lost a decade to me
47:16so what are they saying what what is the remedy for the future the leftists because we have to do
47:22something about it no unless we want to be really you know a scansen of of nice roman and whatever
47:30artifacts but otherwise there is nothing here even the german automakers are falling apart
47:37yeah the the leftists demand um investments to health care investments to productive uh
47:44social uh transformation and transition uh there is the demand of a um european white uh rent initiative to
47:55have the the the to cap the the rents uh to uh regard housing as a human right uh and um there is the proposal of an energy
48:10um basic uh energy uh provision uh uh is is one of the concepts um and uh uh what else yes
48:22um i think education is is a very important topic so the the um sufficient education and and investing in
48:32education um and and and care and to to regard so to say a different model uh of economy also a care
48:43centered uh uh uh economy uh and not the uh production or or even military centered economy as we see it now
48:55this is this is craziness now when when money from guns are needed and suddenly what was it in germany
49:01500 billions that they allocated or something in that ballpark just like that anyways uh tim and myself we
49:10are unionists so what is the plan for kind of revitalizing the unions in europe because
49:18uh well it's almost as bad as in 100 years nowadays so what is the left saying about this
49:29i you are more expert here uh i know i'm not an expert i'm just you know we know slovak situation
49:37team knows british situation a bit but the pan european i don't know what perspective eludes us so
49:44what are you hearing from your colleagues on that front um well we i know transform does and also um
49:54european left work together with the european trade union confederation and trade union institute
50:01uh i think they are really doing great work i mean um when you say it's it's like 100 years ago is
50:08probably also that um it gets harder and harder uh to unionize and the attacks are are harsher i i find
50:17it uh very relevant that unions are also opening up to the new fields uh of work to uh digital work to
50:25uh platform work i know that uh the um left faction has brought through a very good labor protection law
50:35for platform workers uh but uh at the same time we see of course um for example the european minimum
50:44wage directive that was brought forward and brought through uh by the left faction it is now heavily
50:50attacked again so whatever is one uh can be immediately also uh drawn back again so it
50:57it is really about uh uniting uh across unions across organizations uh to to defend and um
51:06to struggle uh for for those directives capitalism never sleeps barbara yes i agree
51:15team last questions because we have to know i'm good i'm good slowly i'm just looking as we speak at
51:23this um this prater park not pretty bad yes yes a week yeah okay i think we will meet in in the end of
51:36august in vienna it would be very nicely there suddenly looks a entertaining thing to join it's whether would it
51:43all be in german would do i need to brush up there are some uh english uh discussions okay and yeah for
51:53the celebration right you don't need the language it's international okay so thank you very much for
52:03your time thank you very much to the audience for listening in and watching the interview uh we will be
52:10continuing with other interviews well in the next couple of days or weeks uh we are working with
52:17other guests so thank you very much and have a nice day thank you very much and a great success for
52:23junia and for nova lavitz and all the best thank you very much okay
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