- 6 months ago
Malaysia’s gig workforce is not fringe—it’s the future. 40% are aged 25–34, and nearly 80% are over 25. They bring the skills, the hustle, and the flexibility. Now they’re pushing for dignity and rights.
This Friday on NIAGA SPOTLIGHT: 1.12 million gig workers await the Gig Workers Bill.
Will it deliver SOCSO, fair pay, and due process... or more delay? Tune in to sharp analysis with four sector leaders.
This Friday on NIAGA SPOTLIGHT: 1.12 million gig workers await the Gig Workers Bill.
Will it deliver SOCSO, fair pay, and due process... or more delay? Tune in to sharp analysis with four sector leaders.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hello and welcome to Niaga Spotlight with me, Tamina Kowalski.
00:11Niaga Spotlight takes us through the week in economic analysis and future affairs.
00:16Now this week on future affairs, we spotlight the topic of gig workers' bill and protecting livelihoods.
00:22Now, Malaysia's gig workers' bill, years in the making, was supposed to hit parliament last week, but was postponed yet again.
00:28Meanwhile, the Human Resources Minister insists it will still be tabled this August.
00:34Meanwhile, the stake is no small number.
00:36An estimated 1.12 million Malaysians earned through e-hailing, food delivery, freelance and care work spread across 200-plus platforms.
00:4640% of these are aged between 25 to 34 and nearly 80% are over the age of 25.
00:53The gig workers' bill aims to define who counts as a gig worker, set out SOXO social protection contributions and also establish a long-overdue appeals mechanism.
01:05But tensions do remain.
01:07How do you guarantee fair pay without crippling platform margins?
01:10How do you spread SOXO or even future EPF contributions across workers who multi-app?
01:19And what teeth will enforcement have when so many operators are foreign incorporated?
01:25Today, we're joined by leaders from the worker, research, creative and caregiving fronts to ask,
01:32Will this bill truly balance flexibility with dignity or will another delay leave gig workers in limbo yet again?
01:41Joining me online now for this urgent discussion are Dr. Asha Rathina Pandey, Head of Research and Lead Analyst with North-South Initiative.
01:49Joining us in a while as well will be Vishwano Wartan Pulaintrun, Secretary General for the Malaysia e-hailing and delivery organization, MEDO,
01:57as well as the Secretariat for Gabungan e-hailing Malaysia, GEM.
02:02Latuk Freddy Fernandez, joining us in a tick as well, President with the Malaysian Artists Association, Karyawan,
02:08and Nurul Ezati Mohamed Nasir, CEO and co-founder of Taman Malaysia.
02:13A very good morning to everyone. Thank you so much for taking time to join us. How's everybody doing?
02:19Good, thank you.
02:20Wonderful. Dr. Asha, if I may begin by setting the scene with you, looking at scopes and definitions.
02:26Now, if the bill says it covers e-hailing, p-hailing freelancers, what precise legal tests should define a platform worker in Malaysia?
02:37This is especially for people who multi-app or mix employment and freelance work, which is indeed quite common, yes?
02:44Thank you, Ezra Awani, for having me here.
02:51The relationship, I think, between gig workers and platform owners should be seen as equivalent to the traditional employer-employee relationship.
03:03What does that mean?
03:06So, as long as the worker taps on the digital platform to engage in work, the law should kick in.
03:14Because the new type of work involves both the platform and non-platform work, the law should be equitable and fair.
03:23And the bill should also consolidate the needs of the workers, platform owners, and the state as regulators.
03:32There must be ownership of responsibilities, for example, in the traditional context, there is a collective agreement and laws such as the Industrial Relations Court.
03:46So, I think, for a start, the Consultative Council and Tribunal seems like a good start to bringing the stakeholders together.
03:56And we hope, as a labour rights organisation, that the laws and standards should not be lower than what the current work-related laws are.
04:08Yes, that's an excellent starting point, of course.
04:11And, of course, definitions also drive who gets protections – SOXO, EPF access, dispute rights as well.
04:18What do you feel ought to be in the definition to avoid potential loopholes, Dr. Asha?
04:25The definition should include any individuals who earns income via the digital platform or non-platform,
04:33regardless of whether it's their primary or secondary source of livelihood.
04:40Secondly, I think the workers who operate across multiple platforms should also be taken into consideration.
04:51Workers who combine employment and freelance work.
04:54But there's also another category that seems to be missing from all of these discussions.
04:59It's the remote workers.
05:01Those workers that do provide services, either locally or abroad.
05:07I think that is also another category that should be taken into consideration.
05:14Overall, I think the new type of work must be inclusive for everyone.
05:18The law should be inclusive for everyone.
05:20The bill should strengthen existing association or labour categories.
05:26For example, journalism has its own union, right?
05:29So, a journalist, for example, who's independent and do not belong to a union must be covered by the gig workers' bill instead.
05:39So, the bill must have the same degree of protection as the same Industrial Relations Act or the collective agreement, in other words.
05:48Thank you for emphasising that.
05:49Thank you for emphasising that.
05:51Now, moving on to Vishnavaratan, representing Mido and GEM.
05:55Let's talk about pay flow and commissions.
05:58Now, what specific minimum earnings model would GEM accept?
06:02Let's look at per hour, per task.
06:04And what is a fair maximum commission for platforms today, in GEM's opinion?
06:09Hi, good morning, everyone.
06:13So, from GEM's perspective, we highlight four critical areas that must be addressed to ensure that the law provides real protections, fair standards and structural solutions for the nation's 1.2 million gig workers.
06:31So, for the pay flow, for e-hailing services, a clear benchmark is already agreed, which is it's regulated since 12 October 2019 under the Land Public Transport Act 2010.
06:49And, in fact, the taxi fair structure, in 2015, set rates at RM1.25 per kilometre and 46 cents per minute.
07:05So, we propose from GEM itself that the fair structure be used as a pay flow for e-hailing with annual adjustment.
07:18So, it can't be due to a one-time solution.
07:23It has to be revised annually based on the inflation and current operating costs.
07:31Because the inflation and the operating costs, it's changed very rapidly in this current situation, which is for the operating costs,
07:43it must consist of fuel, maintenance, insurance, and other causes that the e-hailing driver itself.
07:53So, this approach is practical because we already have a guideline for the passenger transport services.
08:01So, when we are adopting this as a foundation for e-hailing, it makes sense as the services are not only better,
08:12more efficient and safer, but also leveraged modern technology at the fingertips of consumers.
08:18Over the part of the commission, GEM insists that the 20% maximum cap as stipulated under the APAD itself must be reinstated and strictly enforced.
08:35This is a problem whenever there is a platform that is going beyond the 20% that APAD is stipulated under the Act itself.
08:48So, this has to be done under the law, current law, and it should involve in the new Act itself.
09:00Thank you, Mr. V.
09:01So, of course, clearly GEM's rationales are sound, but enforcement is where it will really show whether or not it will be workable for the e-hailing industry.
09:11Dr. Freddie, good morning.
09:12Let's move into talking about creative gigs under the bill.
09:16Now, performers are often paid via royalties, buyouts, not per hour.
09:20What sort of clauses perhaps would protect creative freelancers without undermining royalty as we understand it now?
09:30Well, this is actually the whole emphasis on the gig bill, I think, or the gig economy has been on more on the e-hailing
09:40and the e-hailing industry.
09:44I think we have been engaged, we have had very little engagement on the creative industry.
09:52Actually, I have minimal knowledge about the gig bill, gig workers bill,
09:58and I only got whatever little information I had from Dr. Asha, actually, yesterday in a chat that we had,
10:11and also from speaking to you, Tamina.
10:13But I think the creative industry is also fraught with a lot of issues.
10:20I think many of you have heard of the royalties issues that we've been facing for many, many years now,
10:26more than two decades, where there's a lot of royalties being paid by people,
10:32but there's a lot of people who are not also, who are entitled to get these royalties, who are not getting them.
10:38So I've been trying to resolve this issue, and even the government has been very sympathetic
10:41in actually coming up with guidelines and stuff like that.
10:45But we have some collecting bodies who are quite adamant about doing it their way
10:52and have actually taken the government to court to actually curb the guidelines provided by the government.
11:00So we're in a very problematic situation with artists, composers,
11:09and many of them are not aware of their rights.
11:13We've been trying to tell the Communication Ministry to allow us to have some orientation courses
11:22for new singers, new artists.
11:25And so far, we've been waiting for a while, but no action has been forthcoming.
11:29And so I think this is something that the gig workers build.
11:35I mean, the word gig itself is a very musical term.
11:39Absolutely.
11:40That's where you go and do your gig, you know.
11:43Where's your gig tonight?
11:44You know, that kind of thing.
11:45So the fact that gig is the news here, I think it shows the relevance of what our industry has to go through.
11:56I mean, we have musicians performing in clubs on a nightly basis once a week,
12:02and they go into the club or the pub, and they play there for three hours,
12:07and then they get 200 ringgit.
12:08So, you know, it's all very non-technology-based, unlike the behave business
12:14where you can actually book someone online and you pay online and so on.
12:18Whereas in this case, it's more the old system of, you know,
12:24here's 200 cash for your performance tonight, you know.
12:27Thank you, and I'll see you again next week.
12:30So this is the kind of industry.
12:34A lot of artists also do shows, not getting paid.
12:37We have an actor that came up a couple of weeks ago saying that he was owed some money
12:44by the production house that shot his drama, and he acted in it a couple of years ago
12:51and still hasn't paid.
12:52So these are the issues that, you know, and I'm sure there's a lot of other areas,
12:57especially the film workers, many of them are getting paid late.
13:01You know, they're supposed to get, according to their agreements,
13:04they're supposed to get their payments in seven days after the final shoot,
13:08whereas sometimes those are dragged for months and they don't get their pay.
13:12And these are B40 employees who survive on gigs.
13:21I mean, they survive on freelance work as film workers, film directors,
13:28and also film crew and DOPs, cameramen.
13:32And so it's a whole part of our industry that hasn't been looked at very clearly,
13:40very obviously, and also which we would like to get involved in a bit more
13:46and also get to know what the gig workers' bill actually entails for our side of the industry
13:52as opposed to the purely retailing and the delivery services that are going on.
14:00So it's something that, for me, is an eye-opener.
14:04I also spoke to the president of the Film Workers Association yesterday,
14:10and he said that, yeah, we should take up the issue with the HR ministry
14:16as well as all the other parties.
14:19I think communications should be involved,
14:21and maybe some domestic trade officials as well,
14:26because they actually oversee a lot of the things in our industry.
14:32For me, they take care of the media,
14:35and domestic trade takes care of the royalties.
14:38And they are the ones who have been helping us a lot
14:40by setting up new guidelines.
14:43But unfortunately, we're all being dragged to court.
14:46Even I am now facing a lawsuit for what I said about the royalties,
14:51a couple of lawsuits, actually.
14:53So it's quite a fraught with a lot of conflict
14:58and very depressing situation in our industry,
15:04which hopefully the authorities will take problems off
15:08and help us to resolve a lot of these issues.
15:14Exactly. Thank you for the insights, Dr. Freddy.
15:17It's very important, of course,
15:18that creatives also potentially will be included under the bill,
15:21since, as you mentioned, gig work,
15:23the very terminology itself actually comes from the creative arts, right?
15:27We could think of many minimum standards which might be applicable,
15:31such as kill fees, late payment penalties,
15:33so that particularly our creative freelancers are not shortchanged either.
15:39Azathi, moving into the work that you do via Taman Malaysia,
15:43let's look at protection priorities in caregiving gigs.
15:48Tell us what matters the most for those who work under the Taman Malaysia platform.
15:54They're known as Tamanians.
15:55Tell us a little more.
15:58Yes. Thank you, Tamina.
16:00So our Tamanians, for caregiving gigs, right,
16:05the two most urgent protections that we see
16:08is that insurance coverage and also appeal rights.
16:12So unlike delivery or right hailing,
16:15our work happens in the client's houses.
16:17It's very private.
16:18It's very secluded,
16:20often with elderly and vulnerable people.
16:23So that creates a unique risk, I would say.
16:25So for example,
16:27if an elderly client falls down while walking to the bathroom,
16:31even if the Tamanian has followed all safety steps,
16:35the family might still blame the worker.
16:37So without insurance,
16:38both sides will feel quite exposed, you see,
16:41because family fear the financial liability
16:44and also workers fear unfair insurance and punishment.
16:48So that's why a client-backed insurance model is essential.
16:52So at minimum,
16:54I do feel all platform providers
16:56should provide baseline coverage
16:58and families should have the option to top up
17:01for more protection.
17:04And also the second agent protection is appeal rights.
17:09Care work involves human beings, right,
17:11and misunderstanding can happen.
17:12So a Tamanian can be deactivated
17:15or like maybe blacklisted from the platform
17:17just based on a single complaint
17:19that might not even be verified.
17:22Even us as a platform provider,
17:25we do see this issue as well.
17:28So sometimes because the services happens
17:31in the client's houses,
17:34they might not be any witnesses to any accidents.
17:38So we do have to have something
17:42to protect the caregiving gate workers as well.
17:46So I do feel like the bill should require
17:49a fair and transparent process
17:50before any disciplinary action
17:53so workers can have the right
17:55to explain and defend themselves.
17:57On the other hand,
17:59since our clients are elderly people,
18:02it can be quite a problem for us
18:05to provide an insurance coverage for them.
18:08So looking into this as well,
18:11I think the insurance providers
18:13can be included into the discussion
18:17while tabling the gate worker bill
18:20so it can help provide sufficient protection
18:24for all parties involved.
18:25So to us, minimum earnings are also important
18:29but I think since it is a very delicate balance
18:32between the gate workers getting paid fairly
18:36and also the families are already struggling
18:40with affordability.
18:41So at this stage,
18:42the most important things are insurance coverage
18:44and appeal process.
18:47Indeed.
18:47Thank you for very clearly explaining that.
18:49Now, of course, just to also clarify,
18:51Temanians are freelance care companions,
18:53typical rates reportedly anywhere between
18:55RM13 to RM17 per hour
18:58as well as training being absolutely mandatory.
19:01Thank you all for the insights.
19:02And so far, we take a quick brief break
19:05and we'll be right back
19:05with the rest of the interview on Niaga Spotlight.
19:08Welcome back to Niaga Spotlight.
19:23Still with me, Tamina Kausjian.
19:24Today, of course, we're covering
19:25the upcoming gig workers bill
19:27but looking at protecting livelihoods
19:29with a panel of guests.
19:31Now, Dr. Asha, moving into further
19:34talking about due processes for deactivations.
19:37What would a fair, fast deactivation
19:40appeal system look like
19:42when it comes to perspectives from NSI?
19:48Okay, just talking to some of the gig workers
19:52in our research.
19:53So we do understand that, you know,
19:55the biggest pain points for gig workers,
19:58it's often, it's sudden,
20:01it's opaque and without recourse.
20:03So a fair system should include notice and reasons.
20:08That's the first thing.
20:09Workers must be informed of the grounds
20:13for deactivation in writing.
20:16Secondly, it's access to evidence.
20:20Workers should be given the chance
20:21to review the data, complaints,
20:24or customer reports that triggered the action.
20:26Thirdly, it's the timeline.
20:30Appeals must be resolved
20:31within a reasonable period
20:34to avoid prolonged loss income.
20:39And fourthly, there should be an independent review.
20:42So appeals should not be decided
20:44solely by the platform owners,
20:47but an independent committee
20:49should oversee the matter
20:53and try to resolve it
20:54as soon as possible.
20:57Absolutely.
20:58Expediting it for everyone involved currently.
21:01And of course, the government is currently
21:02exploring a formal deactivation appeals mechanism.
21:06Moving forward from there,
21:08Mr. V. Vishwanathan,
21:10may I ask you about deactivation appeals
21:12to an end-to-end perspective?
21:14Perhaps walk us through the ideal process
21:17from suspension notice to final decision.
21:20Where do you feel an independent body
21:22could be sitting?
21:24And what's a final turnaround time
21:27that would be acceptable to Jem?
21:31Okay.
21:32For the account suspension and the deactivation,
21:36remain the single biggest risk
21:38for the gig workers
21:40who can lose their livelihood
21:42overnight without due process.
21:46So we propose
21:48there's a three-tier appeal mechanism,
21:52which is there should be include
21:53internal review.
21:56And the second is independent panel.
21:58And the third is the final
22:00is tribunal decision,
22:02which is the first one.
22:04The platform must firstly notify the worker
22:09with the reason
22:11and allow a quick review.
22:14It doesn't happen right now,
22:16which is it will be informed,
22:20but what is happened,
22:22it doesn't report to the gig worker.
22:26So this has to be done
22:29and has to be two-way communication
22:33between the gig worker
22:34and the platform itself.
22:36And the second one
22:37is the independent panel,
22:39which is an impartial body,
22:42which is included
22:45the worker representative,
22:48the legal experts,
22:50and the regulators
22:51have to hear what happened
22:54in between the services being done.
22:56and it will be a good way
23:00which is will be in solving the problem
23:05rather than we are suspending
23:07the account directly
23:09without doing a good,
23:12proper discussion
23:13between the gig workers platform
23:16and the customer itself.
23:18And the final one,
23:19the tribunal decision,
23:20a final binding rule,
23:22which is enforceable under the statute,
23:25within a fixed timeline,
23:27which is we are proposing
23:29that if it's very heavy cases,
23:36it should be taken one week's time
23:38to solve it
23:40because the gig workers
23:41earning per daily,
23:44they didn't have a monthly income.
23:46So whenever they work,
23:48then only they can survive their life.
23:51So the crucial part is
23:53we have to,
23:56gig workers have to have a representative
23:59in the gig workers,
24:01such as we are allowed
24:05to bring a union
24:07or association
24:08to represent
24:10and legal counsellor
24:12or translator
24:13to the digital
24:14or in-person hearing.
24:16So this has to be done.
24:17There should be a representative
24:21to make sure
24:22assist the gig worker itself
24:26in the sharing itself.
24:28So to protect livelihoods,
24:30GN proposed that
24:31for every day of
24:33round full deactivation,
24:36the worker must be compensated
24:38at least 50%
24:40of their income
24:41because it will cover
24:45their daily basic necessities
24:48whenever the deactivation
24:51is happening.
24:52So it ensures also
24:55that platforms
24:57cannot misuse
24:59or abuse
25:00for the reason
25:02deactivation
25:03as a disciplinary shortcut
25:05without any accountability.
25:07So this is what we want.
25:09We want to make sure
25:10that platforms
25:11have to be responsible
25:13also
25:14on the cases
25:16that happen
25:16in between
25:17services
25:19being provided
25:20by the gig workers
25:22and the platform
25:23to the customer.
25:27Thanks very much,
25:28Mr V,
25:29for actually emphasising
25:30that we need to normalise
25:32due processes
25:33taking their course.
25:34Moving along from there,
25:35Dr Freddy,
25:36for Karyawan's perspective,
25:38let's look at transparency
25:40when it comes to fees
25:41and payments.
25:42Let's say once
25:43we have more
25:44of the creative
25:46freelancers
25:47who are
25:48as part of
25:49platform gigs,
25:50should artists
25:51also have
25:52a legal right
25:53to platform data
25:54which is available
25:55so that they can audit
25:57what kind of payouts
25:58that they are getting?
25:59Exactly.
26:02A lot of the
26:03royalty payouts
26:05are shrouded
26:07in conflicts
26:10and lack of transparency
26:14so I think
26:16there has to be
26:17a much more
26:18transparent method
26:20of using technology
26:22to actually
26:24embark on
26:26these royalty
26:27collection
26:27mechanisms
26:29as well as
26:30distributing
26:31the money
26:31back to the
26:32right owners.
26:33We have
26:34too many bodies
26:35right now.
26:36We have five
26:36different collecting
26:37bodies
26:38going around
26:39asking people
26:40to pay
26:41for music
26:42that they use
26:42in public
26:43and part of
26:45the government's
26:46trust right now
26:48is to get
26:49a single body
26:50to do the collection
26:51and the distribution
26:52using technology.
26:54There's a lot
26:55of music
26:56identification
26:57software
26:58that can be
26:59employed
27:00whereby
27:01the whole
27:02process
27:03could be
27:04streamlined
27:05into a
27:08technological
27:08system
27:11where
27:12wherever
27:14the songs
27:15are played
27:15whether it's
27:16on the radio
27:16or in a club
27:17or in a
27:19restaurant
27:20or in a hotel
27:22immediately
27:23the songs
27:24are identified
27:25and put
27:26into a system
27:26where
27:27the royalties
27:28are then credited
27:29to the people
27:30who own the song.
27:31So we have
27:32a long way
27:33to go in that
27:34and the first
27:35step is to
27:35get the five
27:37bodies
27:37to
27:38to the line
27:40which the
27:41government
27:41has been
27:41trying to do
27:42but now
27:42we are looking
27:43at delays
27:44because they
27:44have brought
27:45the matter
27:45to court
27:46and of course
27:48that obviously
27:49as everyone
27:49knows takes a
27:50while.
27:50So in
27:52terms of
27:53developing
27:55the use
27:57of technology
27:57I think
27:58the e-hailing
28:00guys are way
28:01ahead of us
28:02they are using
28:03technology
28:03almost on a
28:04daily basis
28:05and a lot
28:05of their
28:06employment
28:09comes through
28:10their phones
28:11and through
28:12online payments
28:13and it's
28:16heartening to
28:17see that
28:18Wisva and
28:19the scheme
28:20are actively
28:23pursuing
28:24protection of
28:25gig workers
28:26rights
28:26and we
28:28like to see
28:29the same
28:29thing happening
28:30for the
28:30creative industry
28:31because
28:32some or other
28:33we've been
28:33left out of
28:34the conversation
28:34and a lot
28:35of the focus
28:36has been
28:36obviously they
28:37have a lot
28:39more pressing
28:40issues
28:41they're faced
28:41with a lot
28:43of views
28:45and also
28:46lack of
28:47protection
28:48on their
28:49part
28:49with no
28:50SOXO,
28:50EPF or
28:51anything like
28:51that
28:52but similarly
28:52we are in
28:54the same
28:54boat
28:55artists have
28:56no EPF
28:57they have no
28:57SOXO
28:58FINAS and
28:59the communication
29:01ministry have
29:02been trying to
29:03put together
29:03some system
29:04but I think
29:05we need the
29:07HR ministry
29:07to really
29:08take a
29:08leading role
29:09in this
29:09and I'm
29:11just hoping
29:13that we
29:14will be
29:14involved in
29:15this whole
29:17movement
29:17moving forward
29:18so that we
29:19can then
29:19actively put
29:21in place
29:22protection
29:24for the
29:28workers in
29:29the creative
29:30industry
29:30so that
29:32their
29:33welfare is
29:36well protected
29:37their rights
29:37are taken
29:38care of
29:39and they
29:39get
29:40remuneration
29:43for the
29:44work that
29:44they do
29:45a lot of
29:45the workers
29:46now
29:47especially
29:47film workers
29:48are paid
29:49very little
29:49150 ringgit
29:51per day
29:51so
29:53some of
29:54this
29:54has to
29:55be reviewed
29:56so
29:57if we
29:58have this
29:59bill
30:00I think
30:00there will
30:01be a lot
30:01more
30:02respect
30:04given to
30:05the people
30:06who actually
30:07have these
30:07skills
30:07and talents
30:08and they
30:10will be able
30:10to make a
30:11better living
30:11for themselves
30:12and also
30:13ensure that
30:14they get
30:15their payments
30:16on time
30:16a lot of
30:18times they
30:18pay but
30:19it's very
30:19very late
30:20things are
30:20delayed
30:21and it's
30:22not nice
30:23to have
30:24some payment
30:25delayed
30:25because you're
30:26waiting for
30:28that payment
30:28to pay your
30:29rent
30:29so it's a
30:32fractious
30:33industry
30:33it needs a
30:34lot of
30:34work
30:35we need
30:36the government
30:38to get
30:39together
30:40all the
30:41ministries
30:41that are
30:42relevant
30:42in this
30:44case the
30:44HR ministry
30:45could take
30:45the lead
30:46and I'm
30:47sure it
30:47will
30:48turn into
30:49something that's
30:50really of value
30:51and will
30:53actually
30:53ogre well
30:54for the future
30:55of the industry
30:56where people
30:57will be more
30:57keen on
30:58joining the
30:59industry
31:00and taking up
31:01work
31:01when you
31:02have musical
31:03talent
31:04and you
31:04have musical
31:06talent
31:06it will be
31:08a shame
31:08if you go
31:09and work
31:09in a bank
31:09or somewhere
31:10else
31:10because the
31:11industry doesn't
31:12support the
31:12talent
31:13so this is
31:14what we are
31:14facing here
31:15there's a lot
31:16of good
31:16talent out
31:17there but
31:17there's just
31:19not enough
31:20support
31:21not enough
31:21protection
31:22not enough
31:23security
31:25and not
31:27enough
31:27of
31:27long term
31:30financial
31:32benefits
31:32for people
31:33who want
31:34to take
31:34up
31:34vacations
31:37in the
31:38creative arts
31:39industry
31:39so this
31:40covers the
31:41entire gamut
31:41of the
31:42industry
31:42from music
31:43to film
31:44to composing
31:46script writing
31:47you know
31:48film working
31:49actors
31:50and so on
31:53so
31:53we are
31:55looking forward
31:55to hopefully
31:56some good
31:56things from
31:57the bill
31:58and hopefully
31:59that it
32:00will bring
32:01a brighter
32:01future for
32:02everyone
32:02thank you
32:04yes exactly
32:04tailoring it
32:05for creatives
32:06is also
32:06just as
32:07important
32:07Azathi
32:08moving along
32:09into looking
32:10at safety
32:11as well as
32:11quality
32:12baselines
32:13do you feel
32:14that the
32:14bill should
32:15perhaps mandate
32:16maybe background
32:17checks
32:17minimum
32:18training hours
32:19and incident
32:20reporting
32:20specifically
32:21for care
32:22related
32:22platforms
32:23at the same
32:24time
32:24what would
32:25be
32:25over
32:26regulation
32:26yeah
32:28so definitely
32:29in caregiving
32:30trust and
32:32safety are
32:32non-negotiable
32:33right Tamina
32:33so when
32:34families open
32:35their homes
32:36and allow
32:37someone to
32:37come to
32:38care for
32:39their parents
32:40they want
32:40assurance that
32:41these people
32:41are trusted
32:42they are safe
32:43and also
32:44accountable
32:44so at
32:46Tamman we
32:46already
32:47practice some
32:48background checks
32:49basic training
32:50in elderly care
32:51and also
32:52incident reporting
32:53system
32:53so I
32:54believe
32:55this should
32:56be
32:56minimum
32:57standards
32:57across the
32:58service
32:58providers
32:59across the
33:00industry
33:00like for
33:01example
33:01every
33:02platform
33:02should at
33:03least
33:03verify
33:04the
33:04caregiver's
33:04background
33:05their
33:06experiences
33:07and we
33:08also require
33:08a baseline
33:09number of
33:09training hours
33:10let's say
33:1110 to
33:1220 hours
33:12we know
33:13that they
33:13have gone
33:14through
33:14this
33:14training
33:15and they
33:15are capable
33:16of handling
33:17a client
33:18per se
33:18so we
33:20also have
33:20a clear
33:21way to
33:21log and
33:22address
33:22incidents
33:23reports
33:23for example
33:23if there
33:24were any
33:24accidents
33:25any falls
33:26or anything
33:27that happens
33:27so I do
33:29feel like
33:29these are
33:30not big
33:31items that
33:32we are
33:32asking for
33:32service
33:33providers
33:33and these
33:34are essential
33:35for service
33:37platforms
33:37to build
33:37from the
33:38get-go
33:39to build
33:39trust as
33:40well
33:40but like
33:42you said
33:42overregulation
33:43is a
33:44problem
33:45as
33:46well
33:46so
33:47if the
33:48bill
33:48requires
33:49the
33:49service
33:50provider
33:50for
33:52every
33:52caregiver
33:52to help
33:53for example
33:54nursing
33:55certificate
33:55so this
33:58would cost
33:58a lot
33:59for the
34:00service
34:00providers
34:00for the
34:01caregivers
34:02as well
34:02and this
34:04would
34:04most probably
34:06reduce
34:06supply
34:07and making
34:08care not
34:09affordable
34:09for many
34:10people out
34:11there
34:11so what
34:12Taman is
34:12working on
34:13right now
34:13is to
34:14provide
34:14affordable
34:15care
34:15and to
34:16provide
34:17job
34:17opportunities
34:18for as
34:18many
34:19people
34:19as
34:19possible
34:20so if
34:21we were
34:21to provide
34:22such a
34:23high
34:23certification
34:25in order
34:25for somebody
34:26to be
34:26a professional
34:28caregiver
34:29that would
34:30push people
34:31back to
34:31doing
34:32informal
34:33care
34:33and
34:33unregulated
34:35care
34:35which is
34:36even
34:36riskier
34:37so I
34:38would
34:38recommend
34:39the bill
34:39to set
34:40practical
34:40safety
34:41baseline
34:41at least
34:42which is
34:43compulsory
34:44background
34:44checks
34:45minimum
34:45but
34:46achievable
34:46level
34:47of
34:47training
34:47and a
34:48clear
34:48reporting
34:49system
34:49so we
34:50make
34:50sure
34:50that
34:50all
34:51parties
34:52are
34:52covered
34:53the
34:53clients
34:54the
34:54elderlies
34:54and also
34:55the
34:55caregivers
34:55so this
34:56should be
34:57enough
34:57as a
34:59starting point
34:59to ensure
35:00safety
35:00without
35:01duplicating
35:02what
35:03agencies
35:04like
35:04J.K.M.
35:05or
35:06health
35:08ministry
35:08is
35:08already
35:09overseeing
35:09absolutely
35:11clearly
35:12there's
35:12a need
35:13for
35:13those
35:13minimum
35:14standards
35:14now as
35:15we move
35:15towards
35:16closing out
35:16the
35:16discussion
35:17Dr.
35:17Asha
35:18I'd like
35:18to ask
35:20a little
35:20about
35:20portable
35:21social
35:21protection
35:22and how
35:22should
35:23contributions
35:23to
35:24SOXO
35:25and
35:25retirement
35:25savings
35:26be split
35:27among
35:27perhaps
35:28worker
35:28platform
35:29and
35:29especially
35:30when income
35:31is actually
35:31spread across
35:32several
35:33apps
35:33which is
35:33actually
35:34rather
35:34common
35:34particularly
35:35for the
35:36e-hailing
35:36and
35:37p-hailing
35:38industry
35:38yeah
35:41so in
35:42terms of
35:42contributions
35:43I think
35:43it should
35:44be
35:44based
35:46on
35:46every
35:46trip
35:47or
35:48every
35:48task
35:48should
35:49have
35:49a
35:51percentage
35:51deduction
35:52so for
35:53example
35:54if the
35:54contribution
35:55rate
35:55is
35:561
35:57ringgit
35:57and
35:5725
35:58sorry
35:581.25
35:595%
36:01then
36:02the
36:02shared
36:02rate
36:03should
36:03be
36:04between
36:05the
36:05workers
36:06and
36:06the
36:06platform
36:06owners
36:07also
36:08and
36:08in that
36:09sense
36:09I think
36:10it should
36:10also
36:10take
36:10into
36:11account
36:11of
36:11the
36:12other
36:13government
36:13subsidies
36:14right
36:14and
36:16for
36:16those
36:17workers
36:17who
36:19use
36:19multiple
36:20app
36:21the
36:22bill
36:22should
36:22create
36:23a
36:23mechanism
36:23for
36:24prorated
36:25contributions
36:25based
36:27on
36:27earnings
36:28from
36:28each
36:29platform
36:29and
36:31finally
36:31I
36:32think
36:32it's
36:32the
36:32so
36:33then
36:34the
36:35question
36:35is
36:35then
36:36who
36:36is
36:36monitoring
36:37who
36:37is
36:37taking
36:37care
36:38of
36:38other
36:40central
36:41system
36:42in that
36:43sense
36:43like
36:43perhaps
36:44managed
36:44by
36:45SOXO
36:46or
36:46EPF
36:46can
36:47consolidate
36:48these
36:48contributions
36:48from
36:50all
36:50platforms
36:51into
36:51a
36:52worker's
36:52single
36:53account
36:53perhaps
36:54having
36:55an
36:56ID
36:56or
36:56so
36:57on
36:57so
36:58I
36:59think
36:59those
37:00are
37:01something
37:02that
37:02we
37:03kind
37:04of
37:04thought
37:05through
37:05but
37:06I'm
37:06sure
37:06there
37:08will
37:09be
37:09details
37:09as
37:11well
37:11and
37:12that
37:13is
37:13something
37:13that
37:14we
37:14are
37:14looking
37:14forward
37:15to
37:15here
37:15and
37:16perhaps
37:17additionally
37:17if you
37:18could
37:18add
37:18about
37:18how
37:19the
37:19gig
37:19workers
37:19bill
37:20could
37:20potentially
37:20balance
37:21flexibility
37:21with
37:22meaningful
37:23labour
37:23protections
37:24as
37:25a
37:25final
37:25closing
37:26word
37:26from
37:26NSI's
37:27side
37:27to
37:27emphasize
37:28okay
37:31so
37:31the
37:31bill
37:32should
37:32avoid
37:33a
37:33one
37:34size
37:34fits
37:35all
37:36approach
37:36so
37:37instead
37:38it
37:39can
37:39tie
37:40to
37:42the
37:42core
37:43protections
37:44like
37:44algorithmic
37:45transparency
37:46and
37:47fair
37:47appeal
37:48process
37:48to
37:49all
37:50gig
37:50work
37:50so
37:51then
37:52it
37:52can
37:53layer
37:53on
37:53stronger
37:54benefits
37:54like
37:55minimum
37:55earnings
37:56specifically
37:56for
37:57those
37:57under
37:58the
37:58heaviest
37:58algorithm
37:59make
38:00control
38:01right
38:01so
38:02by
38:02employing
38:02targeted
38:03approach
38:04it
38:07helps
38:07for
38:07the
38:08most
38:08vulnerable
38:09without
38:10sacrificing
38:10the
38:10flexibility
38:11that
38:11makes
38:12gig
38:13work
38:13attractive
38:14so
38:15and
38:16also
38:17I
38:17think
38:17in
38:18terms
38:19of
38:19balancing
38:20that
38:20flexibility
38:20and
38:21making
38:21sure
38:22there's
38:22meaningful
38:23labour
38:23protections
38:24I
38:24think
38:24that
38:25one
38:25area
38:25that
38:26we
38:26see
38:27lack
38:27or
38:28lacking
38:28in
38:29terms
38:29of
38:29research
38:29is
38:30the
38:30occupational
38:30safety
38:31and
38:31health
38:33so
38:34I
38:34think
38:34the
38:35ministry
38:35of
38:35health
38:35should
38:36conduct
38:36a
38:36comprehensive
38:37research
38:38on the
38:38health
38:39of
38:39workers
38:39and
38:39how
38:40to
38:40reduce
38:40the
38:41fatigue
38:41of
38:41workers
38:42there
38:43must
38:43be
38:43a
38:43system
38:43designed
38:44in
38:45the
38:45app
38:45to
38:46shut
38:46down
38:47after
38:47certain
38:47legal
38:48hours
38:49to
38:49ensure
38:50the
38:50safety
38:50and
38:51protection
38:51of
38:52the
38:52workers
38:53so
38:54our
38:55research
38:55has
38:56actually
38:56found
38:57that
38:57fatigue
38:57lack
38:58of
38:58rest
38:58sleep
38:59as
38:59the
38:59main
39:00contributors
39:00to
39:01accidents
39:02so
39:04I
39:04think
39:04DOSH
39:06must
39:07ensure
39:07prompts
39:09are built
39:10into the
39:10app
39:11to protect
39:11workers'
39:13health
39:13and
39:13safety
39:13thank you
39:14thank you
39:16thanks very
39:16much
39:16Dr
39:17Asha
39:17Mr
39:18V
39:18Dr
39:18Freddie
39:18as well
39:19as
39:19Asati
39:19for this
39:20very
39:20insightful
39:21conversation
39:22now what
39:22we've
39:22heard
39:23today
39:23is
39:23clear
39:24Malaysia's
39:24gig
39:24economy
39:25is
39:25no
39:25longer
39:25a
39:26side
39:26hustle
39:26it
39:26is
39:27the
39:27backboard
39:27of
39:27livelihoods
39:28for
39:28over
39:29a
39:29million
39:29people
39:30the
39:30gig
39:31workers
39:31bill
39:31does
39:32promise
39:32clarity
39:33coming
39:33forth
39:34but of
39:34course
39:35as the
39:35bill
39:35moves
39:36forward
39:36one
39:36question
39:37will
39:37define
39:38it
39:38is
39:38Malaysia
39:38legislating
39:39for
39:39short-term
39:40fixes
39:40or laying
39:41down
39:41the
39:41foundations
39:42for
39:42the
39:42future
39:43of
39:43work
39:43well
39:44that's
39:44all
39:44we have
39:44time
39:45for
39:45today
39:45on
39:45Niaga
39:45Spotlight
39:46with me
39:46Tamina
39:46Kausji
39:47we'll see
39:47you all
39:48next week
39:48with more
39:49economic
39:49analysis
39:50and
39:50insights
39:51here's
39:51to a
39:51productive
39:52week
39:52ahead
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