- 5 months ago
At a House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing before the Congressional recess, Rep. Brad Sherman (D-CA) criticized the State Department’s visa processing system.
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00:00Mr. Sherman yields back. We now go to the gentleman from California, Mr. Sherman, for five minutes.
00:04I want to echo the gentleman from Maryland. I can't agree with him more.
00:07The world is diverse, and the job of the State Department is a relationship with the world.
00:14Okay, you've got to decide how much effort to put in the process of giving visas,
00:20particularly business visas, tourist visas.
00:24Business people come here to buy products, some of them made in my district.
00:28Tourism is a big deal for Los Angeles.
00:31And time and again, I get calls from people who are delayed for a year, two years, sometimes three or four months.
00:42I was in the business world before I came here.
00:46I know our chair has spent a lot of time in the business world.
00:49I've never seen a good business deal that can wait three months for the meeting.
00:54Has the State Department ever even tried to calculate the enormous harm that you do to our economy
01:02by basically telling people in a lot of countries, don't try to do business in the United States.
01:07It's a huge hassle.
01:09Don't try to visit the United States.
01:11There are beautiful vistas elsewhere.
01:14And it's a huge hassle to get here.
01:15Has there been any cost-benefit analysis of the decision to have what has got to be the slowest visa-granting process of any foreign ministry in the world?
01:26Thank you, Congressman, for the question.
01:30It's a supreme joy of mine in this seat to be able to manage consular affairs at this Department of State.
01:36We are responsible for taking a look at visa fraud, passport fraud, human trafficking, illegal immigration on a regular basis.
01:47You specifically are pointing out the visa.
01:51It was pretty much a yes-no question.
01:53Has there ever been an analysis?
01:55The answer is yes.
01:56The answer is yes.
01:56So you have an analysis that says that the delays in issuing business and tourist visas are not costing America billions of dollars of economic activity?
02:08The median wait time for all visas for consular affairs globally is one month.
02:16Oh, that's great if your business deal wants to wait a month.
02:20And by the way, I get calls all the time, particularly from India, from Pakistan, where the delay is four, five, six months.
02:30Would the gentleman yield to a...
02:31I'll yield to the chair.
02:32Yes.
02:33Following up on that, since we do see the same situation, you're saying how long between the time you actually get the appointment, you actually get there.
02:44You are aware that it can be months, many months, sometimes beyond belief, before somebody can get the appointment that goes there.
02:55So the one month may be a wonderful average, but, you know, Abraham Lincoln told us you could drown if you were six foot tall in the average five-foot-depth river.
03:07The average doesn't tell the story that the gentleman's talking about of delays of months before you even get an appointment.
03:13And I would hope that you would do the analysis because there are a lot of businesses that can't wait a month and a lot of places in the world where that visa to first get the appointment and then the appointment is a month after you get it is many, many months.
03:28Okay, we fired a bunch of people.
03:29You wanted to reduce the number of staff.
03:32And it makes sense to look at the organization chart and see some boxes and say, well, we don't need a person in that box.
03:39We don't need a person in that box.
03:40But what I understand you did is if you had a superb employee in the box that you don't need, you didn't move them to another box.
03:53You fired them, and then you could have an underperforming employee in a box you're keeping, and you're keeping that employee.
03:59Did you evaluate the capacities and performance of individuals and then put them in the box as you wanted, or did you just fire anybody who was in a box that seemed like we don't need that box?
04:14Congressman, the reduction in force is all about functions and not the individual, not people.
04:21Yes, but if you want to perform this function and you have a great person that's performing a function you don't need, why not keep the great person and have them do the function you want instead of firing people?
04:36Because in the State Department, you guys are moving people around from function to function.
04:39It's a game of musical chairs.
04:40It's what we do.
04:41If somebody happened to be six months ago a great performer in a great function, they still have a job.
04:48But if somebody was a great performer and they've recently been transferred to a function you don't need, that great performer is out, right?
04:56In this instance, Congressman, if someone has been riffed last Friday, they will have the opportunity to apply for a job that absolutely fits their skill set, their experience, and their language capabilities if that's part of the job.
05:12We have the idea.
05:13As far as immediate decisions, you've retained certain underperforming employees and you've terminated some spectacular employees because you didn't evaluate the individual employees and all of their experiences.
05:28You just said, well, if in the musical chair games it is the State Department, they happen to be in a box we don't need, they're out.
05:35They can apply for something else.
05:36Unless, if they're really good, they'll find a job in the private sector.
05:39I believe I've, have I gone too long?
05:41Yeah, but you've gone as long as I'm going to let you go, Mr.
05:46We now go to the gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Keating, for five minutes.
05:50Well, thank you, Mr. Chair.
05:52I'm just concerned when you've fired over a thousand employees and, you know, eventually you're going to have to replace those people, new people coming in.
06:04What's your pitch to those people after you've just fired a thousand career people?
06:11Congressman, I'm afraid I didn't hear the exact question.
06:14What's the?
06:15I just said you just fired more than a thousand employees.
06:20Right.
06:21Eventually you're going to have to recruit and bring new people into the service.
06:25So what's your pitch to these people after you've just fired these career people that are thinking of making a career here?
06:32I mean, what do you say to them?
06:33Maybe you'll get lucky.
06:35Maybe if you take an allegiance to something beforehand.
06:39I mean, what, you know, what if you had a son or daughter and they're thinking of career and they want to become a foreign service person and have a career here?
06:52Would you be worried that embarking on a career where career people just got ruthlessly fired?
07:00Congressman, there's never a perfect time to conduct a reduction in force.
07:04We are very aware of that.
07:06We took all the, we did everything we could with as much heart as we could when we went through and exercised and implemented this reduction in force on Friday.
07:15Please, you know, I have five minutes, but I don't believe that.
07:18You know what my son or daughter would call that?
07:21B.S.
07:21This was just done so ruthlessly.
07:25So let's not even go there because I don't have time for that.
07:29I'm concerned about the future after you've done this.
07:32And I'm concerned, too.
07:34So many of the people that I know that have made careers and people that I talk to that had careers, a lot of those things occurred in the university.
07:43Have you ever spoken to a U.S. diplomat in residence?
07:47I have, sir, yes.
07:48Do you see the value of that position?
07:49In many instances, absolutely.
07:53So you've got these young people.
07:56What would you tell them if it was your son or daughter, you know, about job security?
08:02I will say, Congressman, you are perhaps referring to some of the details and fellowships that we have in the State Department that take place with other government agencies, with DOD, with nongovernmental organizations, with state and local governments.
08:20I'm also talking about people as well as with Congress, as well as at the college stage, post-college stage, who are thinking of making careers.
08:28You know, this is going to, you don't think this would damage the future potential to hire the best going forward?
08:35We made a concerted effort, sir, to put in place an organizational structure that matched the foreign policy goals of this administration.
08:46Well, I'll tell you this, those goals don't include recruiting the best down the road coming forward.
08:54I'm also concerned, too, when you're looking at major events like the Olympics in 2028 and what's going, you know, are we going to have the people in place?
09:03I know the Secretary of State said, don't worry about it, but I don't see how in some of these countries we're going to have the people in place to do big functions like that.
09:13Congressman, we feel quite good about being able to welcome visitors to the United States for the FIFA World Cup, as well as America 2025 and the Olympics in 2028.
09:28I will tell you that the majority of the folks that we expect to come for the FIFA World Cup will be coming from Mexico and Canada.
09:39So those folks, for the most part, have visas and are able to come into the United States.
09:44We have all of government effort to ensure that we are prepared and ready for the onslaught of visitors that we absolutely welcome to the U.S. for the Cup.
09:54Remember those words when the time comes, because the way you're progressing with this and the things you're doing don't inspire confidence that that's going to be the place.
10:04And invariably, you can look right down this row, and it's our offices that get these calls all the time when these things aren't undertaken properly.
10:12I just want to touch, too, I don't have much time, on the cuts to the consulate offices that have occurred and the dangers, you know, the dangers, actually, that represent not having those in place in places like France and Germany.
10:27Well, I can tell you that with the reorganization and the reductions in force that took place last Friday, there are no cuts to the number of personnel in the Consular Affairs Bureau.
10:41We have part of that whole reorganization.
10:45My time is running out.
10:46So, there's no cuts in the Fraud Prevention Office?
10:50There's no cuts in the Consular Systems and Technology Office?
10:54No, sir.
10:55That's not the information I have.
10:56I yield back.
10:57The gentleman yields back.
10:58We now go to the gentleman from New York for his five minutes.
11:02Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:03Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:06I yield my time to the rancor, Ms. Shafilis-McCormick.
11:13Thank you, Representative.
11:14I just wanted to follow up on some questions.
11:17My biggest question is that you mentioned that you were directed to reduce by 15% for M.
11:24And what was the basis of that number?
11:25How did you derive that 15% that was supposed to be cut?
11:28That 15% Congresswoman was not just for the M family of bureaus, but across the board at the State Department.
11:37When we started the discussions regarding reorganization, we weren't looking at a specific number to cut a certain percentage,
11:46but rather we worked with our undersecretaries, with career and foreign service personnel to make sure that we got that right.
11:57So that 15% was across the board?
12:00Across the board at the State Department, yes.
12:01My next question, I just want to clarify some statements.
12:04So when it comes to the Consular Affairs, there seems to be a discrepancy as far as the cuts,
12:09because we have reporting that there were cuts made, and you're saying that there were no cuts made.
12:13Is that correct?
12:13There were no cuts in Consular Affairs.
12:17I would just hearken back to what I said before.
12:21So our information that we have is different.
12:23If we can reconcile that with further information.
12:24We'd be happy to work with you on that.
12:26I think a lot of it stems back to the fact that the decision and the memo that was signed for reorganization and reduction in force is effective May 29th.
12:35And a lot of any of those people that were impacted were probably in a different place, maybe in an office that had been eliminated on May 29th.
12:43Well, as long as we can reconcile it, because the information we have, it does say that there were cuts.
12:47And so we want to see that, because we're concerned about the impact that those cuts would have, specifically on processing passports and visas.
12:55So once we get that, we can reconcile that and move forward.
12:57The second thing I wanted to talk about also were some of the cuts that were made to personnel in Syria.
13:03Now, Syria has been an area that's been very fragile and we're starting to see some an uptick or some hope in Syria.
13:10Reducing the number of the regional experts working on Syria at the same time as the State Department is working on reopening its embassy in Damascus is not just counterintuitive, but it also seems like a step backwards.
13:22It puts American citizens directly in harm's way across the Middle East.
13:26I recently returned from a CODEL with Chairman Lawler in which the issue was raised directly.
13:31What steps are you taking actually to protect and make sure that we have adequate amount of personnel in Syria, but also to support so we can make sure Syria does not regress?
13:41Thank you, Congresswoman, for that very good question.
13:44I'm thrilled to be able to have been part of the initial discussions about the changes that took place as a result of President Trump's trip to the Middle East a little more than a month ago.
13:55It was during that time that he was able to, the President himself, was able to meet with the President of Syria and as a result of that, quite frankly, everything in the Middle East has changed.
14:05We are looking forward to giving the Syrian people and the Syrian government an opportunity to, an economic and diplomatic opportunity to deal with the rest of the world.
14:15As in this seat, as Undersecretary of Management, I worked hand in glove with our operations center task force, which was put in place to make sure that we looked at all of...
14:30Because my time is running out.
14:32Please.
14:32We want to know about implementation and the proper number of personnel to carry out that implementation.
14:37So with those cuts, we want to know how you're going to fill it.
14:41Do they have the accurate expertise to make sure that we're successful in Syria?
14:46I have very good news for you, Congresswoman.
14:49I do work very, very closely with our ambassador to Turkey.
14:53His name is Tom Barrack.
14:54He is also the special envoy to Syria, and he's already made a couple of trips to Damascus to meet with the President of Syria.
15:01All of the, many of the functions that are required to get the proper security in place and get the right team in place in order for him to make that trip successful
15:15and to raise the flag above our embassy there, our ambassador's residence there on May 29th, fall under the purview of the Management Bureau.
15:28And I was thrilled to be a part of that.
15:30We are looking every single day, every time he wants to take a trip to the region, we work hand-in-glove with...
15:37So as my time is running out, could we receive from your office specific details of what steps we're taking
15:42so we can be able to make sure that we're on an upward course and not a downward trajectory by having the proper amount of personnel?
15:50I'm happy, Congresswoman, to work with you on that.
15:52Yes.
15:52I yield back.
15:53Mr. Cunningham, I just want to follow up on one thing.
15:58In today's threat environment, cybersecurity and counterintelligence must be fully integrated
16:03into all levels of State Department operations, with functions spread across various bureaus and families.
16:10Coordination and clarity are critical.
16:12How is the Bureau of Management overseeing counterintelligence and cybersecurity functions department-wide?
16:20Thank you, Chairman, for that question.
16:22In today's multipolar world where we are facing challenges that are so unique to the 21st century,
16:30obviously defending against cyberattacks is a very important function of the Management Bureau.
16:35We've identified and responded to two very specific nation-state cyberattacks recently,
16:42and we're doing everything we can to ensure that our records retention and records review of anything related to WhatsApp
16:52and signal are part and parcel of what we do.
16:54We also have done something through this reorganization, sir, to make sure that all of the, in fact,
17:01I think it was seven or eight bureaus in the department had their own IT shops,
17:08and so we have consolidated that under our chief information officer,
17:13and we'll get the economies of scale that we need out of that operation.
17:19Furthering up on this, what steps are being taken to embed counterintelligence awareness
17:24and training into the daily operations of overseas missions?
17:29That's a very important question, sir.
17:33There are a number of trainings that take place.
17:36In fact, we're reimagining the kind of training that is necessary earlier.
17:41I think one of your colleagues mentioned the Foreign Service Institute.
17:45We're making sure that we have the right kind of training and skill sets in place
17:50that will address any counterterrorist issues before they head off and go overseas.
17:56In fact, I think next week I'm going through a two-day training just to make sure that I understand
18:02what that training entails and make sure that it also matches our goals
18:06in the America First foreign policy agenda.
18:09Appreciate that.
18:10I thank the witness for his valuable testimony,
18:13as well as the members for their questions.
18:15I thank the ranking member as well.
18:18The members of the subcommittee may have some additional questions for the witness,
18:22and we will ask you to respond to these in writing.
18:26Pursuant to committee rules, all members may have five days to submit statements,
18:31questions, and extraneous materials for the record subject to the length limitations.
18:37Without objection, the committee stands adjourned.
18:40Pursuant to committee rules, all members may have five days to submit statements,
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