'That Just Doesn't Make Any Sense': Susie Lee Grills Permitting Expert Over Permitting Reform

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During a House Natural Resources Committee hearing in July, Rep. Susie Lee (D-NV) asked Alex Herrgott, President and CEO of the Permitting Institute, about issues within the permitting process for solar and wind projects.

Transcript

00:00Chair recognizes the general lady from Nevada, Ms. Lee, for five minutes.

00:03Thank you, Mr. Chairman and ranking member for hosting this hearing. This is an incredibly

00:08important hearing, something that permitting reform is something I surely hope that this

00:14Congress can get across the finish line, and I know there's a lot of work being done, but

00:19nothing as important as what this committee is doing. I want to begin just to say the U.S.

00:26Energy Information Administration, I represent Nevada, has noted that my home state of Nevada

00:32leads the nation in solar power potential, where nearly a third of Nevadans' electricity comes

00:44from solar. Similarly, there has been, the solar industry has invested $12.5 billion of private

00:55investment into Nevada, where there are 269 solar jobs per 100,000 residents. The bulk of that

01:05investment is, of course, rooted in our public lands, with nearly 12 million acres of federally

01:12managed BLM land throughout Nevada open for solar development. So clearly this is a major industry

01:19in our state. Mr. Mergen, I want to ask you, is it fair to say that Nevada has the most to lose from

01:27the new DOI red tape requiring that the Secretary Burgum, a cabinet level official, personally,

01:36I mean, this is key, personally, I mean, we're talking about permitting reform, so now we're going to go

01:41back and elevate decisions to the cabinet level secretary to personally sign off on virtually

01:50every permit for solar and wind projects with the nexus to interior moving forward, including

01:58permitting for siting, road access, and rights away. First, let me agree that the potential for solar

02:06energy in Nevada is extraordinary, right? And we've seen some of that in projects that have been

02:12developed, not just on federal lands, but on tribal lands as well, enormous potential. The interior memo,

02:18I think, goes against the grain of everything that we have talked about this morning across the board on

02:24this panel, which is that permitting reform should not pick and choose between infrastructure projects.

02:30The demands on the grid, the electrical demands that we anticipate really call for all sorts of energy

02:39and the development of energy in Nevada, the incredible solar potential Nevada should move forward

02:45expeditiously. And I think it can, in light of the reforms that have occurred under the Fiscal Responsibility

02:52Act. I think that the seven county case is going to defang considerable litigation going forward.

02:59That's litigation against fossil projects, and that's litigation against solar projects as well.

03:04I'll stop there. Thank you. I completely agree. Mr. Campbell, do you agree with that, that we

03:10shouldn't pick and choose? Absolutely. I think, I think that's part of the problem with the NEPA process.

03:17One group doesn't like fossil fuels, one group may not like renewables, one group obviously doesn't like

03:22nuclear. You can't use that to kill a project. And I do think that is it. Thank you.

03:29Mr. Hergott, I find your record of government service commendable. Thank you. And I do hope that

03:36we can work together to find a bipartisan permitting reform solution. You testified earlier that your

03:44current role at the Permitting Institute is to rise above the rhetoric, political posturing, and

03:50gamemanship to drive compromise. So I appreciate that. In that spirit, would you say that the actions like

03:57this new solar and wind permitting directive, which comes just weeks after rollbacks on renewables

04:04enacted as part of the Republicans' budget bill, are getting us closer to bipartisan reform or driving

04:12us further apart? I appreciate the question as someone that works with the Revia and Yellow Pine and has

04:17developed many, many assets and solar assets in Nevada. I agree with you. I will tell you that I look at that

04:23memo from a different point of view. The executive order came out at the beginning of the year, the way

04:27the president has messaged against wind and solar. The BLM state directors, Fish and Wildlife, were

04:32paralyzed to make a decision anyway, so nothing was going to happen. Elevating objective decision making

04:37up to one person instead of pointing at 10 to blame Secretary Burgum, bring him up here, oversight,

04:42and halting it up there. You can't hide behind the bureaucratic charade. You have one person that just

04:47elevated the objective decisions. If he puts his foot and slows, and we use it as a kind of soft

04:52obstruction, then you're not going to be, you're going to be able to call that out. I think it's a

04:57shock to the system, and I think that's not the only agency that's going to happen to, and whenever

05:01there's a democratic president, they're going to do the same thing, because the the 65 decision makers

05:06spread across 25 divisions across the country that are disconnected are definitely not solving the

05:11problem. Okay, so but actually you earlier in your testimony tonight, today, you claim that the

05:19system is so clogged up, there's no central database there. So you're basically saying because there's no

05:26centralization, but now we're all going to centralize it, it's going to make it faster. That just doesn't

05:31make any sense to me. I've been abundantly clear that I want bipartisan permitting reform. I think many

05:38people in this hearing today do too, but getting there will require some give and take. And that

05:46this directive, and the follow-up DOI directive, basically is picking winners and choosers on the

05:54energy spectrum, and solar and wind being the loser. The majority has done, the majority has,

06:02Tom has expired. Okay, okay. I'm just going to say that

06:06we have an opportunity to work together. And I think we should really work together in identifying

06:14all forms of energy, not picking winners and losers. Thank you.

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