'How Does That Make Any Sense?' Alex Padilla Ruthlessly Grills Forest Service Chief Over Budget Cuts

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During a Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee hearing on Thursday, Sen. Alex Padilla (D-CA) asked Forest Service Chief Tom Schultz about his agency's budget.

Transcript

00:00Very much. Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Schultz, welcome.

00:09As you know, the Forest Service plays a critical role in wildfire response, not just programs to

00:17prevent or mitigate the impact of fires, but to respond to them when they happen.

00:21However, under the current administration, we've seen a dangerous reduction in the capabilities

00:28and capacity of the Forest Service to respond to wildfires. Through both the Deferred Resignation

00:34Program and the Voluntary Early Retirement Authority, the Forest Service has lost more than 5,000

00:41employees, about 1,400 of whom had red cards and knew the significance of red cards.

00:48So I'm concerned that this represents a significant reduction in capability and capacity and poses

00:54a serious danger to communities, not just in California, elsewhere in the West and across

00:59the country. The staffing reductions coupled with the President diverting National Guard units in

01:05California to mean that those resources are no longer available to support our wildfire response

01:14capacity. It's not just irresponsible, it's dangerous. That's me talking. I want to hear from you.

01:20Chief, I know that since the reductions, the agency has invited those who resigned to re-status themselves

01:28for fire season. Can you share with the committee how many have actually taken the agency up on the

01:33offer to re-status? Senator, thank you for the question. So just to kind of restate again, in terms of

01:39resources, we're basically at 99 percent of capacity of our firefighting resources in terms of our

01:44GS9 and below firefighters. So we have had no degradation. Is that funding or staffing levels?

01:49It's staffing levels. Yes, sir. And there's been no impact on the funding either on that. So how have you

01:54offset the 15, more than 1,500 staff? Okay, so we're talking different things. So we had people

02:02that took DRP. The DRP was, firefighters were not eligible for DRP. We had that were, we had non-firefighting

02:07personnel that had red cards, like you said, that were about 1,400. Are you saying there's no reduction in the

02:12red cards? No, what I'm saying is that the firefighting, firefighters that are classified as

02:17firefighters were not eligible for DRP. So none of them took DRP. We had other staff that were

02:23non-fire personnel that do have red cards. And we had, like you mentioned, we had about, I think we

02:28had 4,000 took DRP and another 1,000 that retired outside of DRP. And there was about 1,400 that did

02:34have red cards. So those are the folks that you're referring to. We don't have numbers yet. They've just

02:38been kind of coming back on in the last couple weeks. And as we get those numbers, we can get them to

02:42you. But we have reached out, as you indicated, to those 1,400 and allowed for them to come back.

02:47And not just allow, but encourage them to come back. We have a process for them to come back and

02:51support us this year through the end of September. Yeah. Well, I'm going to eagerly await those numbers

02:57and regular reports and updates because red cards are significant. Even those that are not firefighters

03:04serve in critical roles that support the firefighting activity. So I'm going to be looking for that data

03:13and those further assurances and commitment on your part, because we're just now entering peak

03:18fire season in California and throughout the West. I want to get back to the topic of partnerships.

03:25You've mentioned it earlier in the hearing. I know Senator Barrasso emphasized this earlier

03:29in the hearing. The forest services state and private forestry programs, including state fire

03:35assistance, the volunteer assistance, volunteer fire assistance, and the broader state private and tribal

03:42forestry initiatives provide crucial financial and technical support to state and local fire departments

03:49for wildfire prevention, as well as detection and suppression. These programs are essential for building

03:57and maximizing the capacity in fire adapted communities and ensuring the safety of first responders during wildfires.

04:05What is the status of FY25 funding for these programs? Are you aware?

04:14And I guess alongside with that, what's your confidence level in getting the funding out

04:19by the August 15th deadline? Sure. Thank you, sir. So, Senator, the fiscal year 25,

04:25um, we're still working with OMB on on that request. So, um, we're looking to finalize that here

04:33probably within the next couple weeks. Look, that that worries me. I don't mean to cut you off. Yes.

04:38The deadline to get this out is August 15th. We're a month out and you're still finalizing the numbers?

04:43So, Q4 numbers for 25 are still being finalized for some of those programs. Yes, sir.

04:48That should be a big red flag for all of us. Uh, let me make one other important point as my time is

04:57running out. From past fires in California, including Santa Rosa, uh, years ago, Los Angeles more recently,

05:04these are the types of programs that we should be supporting. I asked you about the FY25 numbers.

05:10Do you know what the FY26 numbers? My understanding is the president's proposed budget zeros out

05:17this program. How does that make any sense? So, Senator, I think what the intent of that program

05:24in 26 is to transfer that responsibility to the states. That's, that's the intent of that. And then

05:29giving the other states some heads up that that's coming. Look, as every state that I'm aware of is

05:33having a tougher budget picture to face. The threat of fires is real. The threat of fires is

05:42growing. How does it make sense for the federal government to zero out these programs that you

05:47said are so critical? Sir, we would still be partnering with the states in dialogue and discussions,

05:53but the transfer... But you're zeroing out the resources. How does that make any sense? That's correct.

05:56Well, it's sharing that responsibility and pushing that to the states. You're pushing it to the states that

06:00have less resources to work with. How does that make any sense? In a sense, it makes sense because

06:07it's putting that responsibility on the states to make those decisions locally. Look, it may, it may

06:12be residents of California or Utah or other states in between. These are all Americans. Communities in the

06:19United States of America that are at increased risk because of the actions of this administration

06:26which contradicts the supposed goals and objectives. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Senator D.

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