Taurasi S01E06

Bigfoot USA

yesterday

https://t.me/TopFilmUSA1

Transcript

00:00As a profiler and as an investigator, when talking with Gary Ridgeway, I certainly identify

00:26with the difficulty of Keppel, trying to get specifics out of Ted.

00:33Which is better for you?

00:35Which is more arousing to you, more stimulating, more exciting?

00:40I couldn't look at her face or anything.

00:46Why?

00:47When I was killing her, I just...

00:48Why?

00:52I didn't want to know who I was killing.

00:56And I never wanted to see what they looked like.

01:06This is a tape-recorded interview between Bob Keppel and Ted Bundy.

01:13We have almost two dozen young women dead, the victims of the Green River Killer.

01:24The whole premise was using one killer to catch another killer.

01:31It had never been done before.

01:33And that became the Silence of the Lambs.

01:36Do you think there's something that we can do to draw him out of the world?

01:42Yes.

01:43I have an idea or two that might help you with passion.

01:52There are an infinite number of ways to explain how a man can come to the point where he destroys human life.

01:58The girl's head was severed, date, up the road.

02:14Less than six hours from now, accused mass murderer Ted Bundy is scheduled to be executed in a Florida prison.

02:20I'm the only one in possession of information, that's just the way it is.

02:24It's now or never.

02:25Time is running out for Ted Bundy.

02:53He is scheduled to die in Florida's electric chair, and now he must hope for a last-minute reprieve.

02:59I had seen Ted Bundy manipulate his way out of the electric chair for ten years, but now his fate seems sealed.

03:08Only Florida's governor could save Ted's life, and that didn't seem likely.

03:13We are moving with anticipation of what might occur.

03:20I was exhilarated that day.

03:23Ted Bundy needed killing.

03:26Ted Bundy, suspected in at least 36 murders and mutilations of young women, may finally be executed.

03:34Just about everybody who was a witness to the execution was somebody who worked on the case.

03:41It was a poll house, and outside, there were maybe a thousand people out there screaming and yelling.

03:47It's crazy.

03:49And you see old Sparky sitting there in the middle of the room.

03:57Off to the right is a phone hanging on the wall.

04:00And the door opens, and in comes Bundy, and he is just quiet as a sheet.

04:06And they sit him down, and they strap him in the chair.

04:21There's a guy standing over here, and he's on the phone with the governor.

04:25Our goal is to carry out the warrant and the sign that's still set for 7 o'clock.

04:36Florida's governor fulfilled Ted Bundy's greatest fear.

04:40That he would die in prison.

04:52They dropped the hood.

04:55Now, Bundy, he had a habit of making fists like this, with his thumb between his fingers.

05:07And a thought ran through my head at that point.

05:10I wonder how many necks those hands have tightened around.

05:15The superintendent gives a high sign to the executioner, and they throw the switch.

05:30You can see the body tense.

05:34You can see the hand tightening tighter and tighter.

05:402,000 volts of electricity raced through his body.

05:42The power surge caused lights outside the execution chamber to flicker.

05:47It was the sign to the outside world that Bundy was dead.

05:57I got the phone call and said it was over.

06:02He was dead.

06:03And I started to cry.

06:06And I cried.

06:07And I wailed.

06:08And all my husband could do was hold me.

06:12I wasn't crying for me.

06:15I was crying for Margaret and for Lisa.

06:19And all his victims.

06:22And all their families.

06:23And all the things that they wanted to do.

06:30I waited for that day a long time.

06:33And it came.

06:35And then the way I feel is today is today.

06:41And I still don't have Denise.

06:43We were so upset.

06:49You know, it was very emotional for us.

06:53One of the magazines rang our doorbell, and my husband went to answer, and flashbulbs are flashing.

07:01And he said, how do you feel about the execution?

07:04Dale just slammed the door on him.

07:06Let's not make a circus out of this, people's tragedies.

07:14I don't believe in executions.

07:17But in that case, I was happy that he was executed.

07:24Because he was just a total monster.

07:26I was bawling my eyes out.

07:32Although I knew that, you know, this person needed to go.

07:36I wasn't just crying for my brother or for myself.

07:39It was because of the situation.

07:42You know, thanks a lot.

07:43You know, you ruined so many lives.

07:45And you're making me upset right now.

07:46And because there's nothing I can do about it.

07:48I've had mixed emotions about the death penalty for Bundy.

07:54I'm glad they executed him.

07:57Now, with his death and his confession on Bob's tapes, I think the victim's families have some solace at this point.

08:08The last words I had said to Bundy were, you've just killed yourself.

08:16I thought of those words as I flew home to Seattle.

08:24It was the morning.

08:26I was surprised to see Dad already home.

08:30I said, did you stay for the execution?

08:32And he said no.

08:33But then he kind of smiled and looked down, and he was frying bacon in the kitchen.

08:43So we had a good laugh.

08:47I had thought that he had wanted to see the execution.

08:51But he said he didn't want to.

08:54He was done with Bundy at that point.

08:59Bundy was dead.

09:01The Green River Killer wasn't.

09:03Today, police identified the skeletal remains found in a ravine over the weekend as those of Cindy Ann Smith.

09:10Today's announcement brings the number of known victims to 37.

09:14By now, it was the longest unsolved serial murder case in American history.

09:21Bundy had put himself into the river man's mind.

09:25Could he still help us from beyond the grave?

09:28I think that he's going to be able to control himself indefinitely.

09:35He's never going to lose control or make a mistake so far.

09:38I'm sure he made a mistake.

09:40He has made a mistake.

09:42Severe enough to get caught.

09:45Yes.

09:47Bundy was brought down by a witness in Utah.

09:50Could a witness also bring the Green River Killer to justice?

09:56Is that the man that assaulted you in 1983?

09:57That is the man.

09:59There's no doubt in your mind about that?

10:00No doubts.

10:02He was right in my face when he was attacking me.

10:05There is no way I would not be able to remember that.

10:08Bundy had told me that the Green River Killer was likely questioned by the police, maybe even arrested.

10:28Back in 1984, the task force had been sifting through 77,000 suspects.

10:46And that's when investigators heard an alarming story.

10:50The police had questioned a man about an attack on Rebecca Garda.

10:55They actually showed me a bunch of photos, and I had picked out his photo.

11:06During the interview, the suspect admitted choking Garda because he claimed she'd bit him.

11:15He admitted to it.

11:16He said, oh, yeah, I strangled her or tried to because she bit me and assaulted me and was very forthcoming and candid about it,

11:24which I think you would naturally assume that would not be the case if he was trying to hide something.

11:31Investigators tracked the man to his home.

11:33His name?

11:34Gary Ridgway.

11:35Detectives took a hard look at Ridgway, and they realized that the Green River Task Force had already investigated him.

11:48Gary Ridgway first came to the attention of the task force when Marie Malvar disappeared on April 30th, 1983.

11:57Marie Malvar disappeared off the strip.

11:59She had a pimp, a boyfriend, who saw her get into a truck.

12:03When she didn't return home, they went out looking for the truck in the neighborhood, and they found it in Ridgway's driveway.

12:14So they called the police.

12:16The police went out to Ridgway's house.

12:19You know, he admitted that he had had sex with her, but then said that he had dropped her off.

12:23And again, she was just another missing person.

12:25So there was not a whole lot they could do about it.

12:29On May 7th, 1984, Ridgway took a polygraph, administered by the King County Sheriff's Office, and passed.

12:38My client has passed a polygraph examination regarding whether or not he is the Green River Killer.

12:45He passed it.

12:46That means he was telling the truth when he said he was not.

12:49The polygraph operator that passed Ridgway, even though this person is the best expert in the world, always get a second opinion.

12:58Because later on, it's going to come back to bite you.

13:02Ridgway was cleared at the time.

13:05But then, another tip came in.

13:07The boyfriend of one of the prostitutes who was abducted, that boyfriend gave them a description of the person driving the pickup truck who was driving the victim away.

13:21Police showed Kimmy Kai-Pitzer's boyfriend a six-person photo lineup, and he made a tentative identification.

13:29They identified Gary Ridgway again.

13:31King County investigator just released a list of reasons for last week's probe at a King County home.

13:36We searched his house.

13:38We searched his vehicles.

13:40There was nothing there during the 1987 search that would cause us to make an arrest.

13:49When the task force questioned Ridgway in 1987, they also took a saliva sample from him.

13:56We asked him to chew on a piece of gauze.

13:59That was for blood typing.

14:00Little did we know that that specific piece of gauze would be the key to this case 20 years later.

14:07The Green River case spanned decades, remaining constant, even as the players in it moved on.

14:22Dave Reichert rose through the ranks and won election as King County Sheriff in 1997.

14:27I began teaching the next generation of investigators at the University of Washington.

14:34When asked, I still gave advice to my former colleagues, especially about serial murder investigations.

14:41When I became sheriff, we focused on any evidence that could have any DNA possibilities.

14:48We had bodily fluids that we had taken from victims who were intact.

14:53So one of the unique things that the Green River killer did is that he placed rocks inside the vaginas of some of his early victims.

15:03The fact that he had put a rock inside one of the victims actually ended up being kind of his undoing

15:09because that rock had prevented his sperm from being washed away.

15:14Police arrested Ridgway this afternoon and say DNA evidence links him to four of the 49 murders of the Green River case.

15:31Technology had finally caught up with Gary Ridgway.

15:36Using advances in DNA typing, investigators matched the DNA left in victims to Ridgway's DNA.

15:44Taken in 1987.

15:47I couldn't resist.

15:49I went out to the holding room and as Ridgway came out, I looked at him and I said,

15:56Gotcha.

16:00Gary Ridgway was a Navy veteran who worked as a truck painter at Kenworth Trucking.

16:06The paint he used would tie him to the other victims.

16:09We managed to identify three additional victims from the paint spheres that we were able to locate on several items of evidence.

16:19We've got seven cases.

16:21We could clearly convict him of these seven charges and we could seek the death penalty on him.

16:26If Gary Ridgway doesn't deserve death, then who does?

16:29But that wasn't enough.

16:32What about the 41 other victims we didn't have evidence for and didn't know where their remains were?

16:38We would agree to trade the death penalty in return for getting information from him and to try to find some of the women who were still missing.

16:48After five years of interviews, Bundy finally confessed to the eight Washington state murders.

16:55Would the Green River Task Force be able to get confessions from Ridgway?

17:00Today, I'm announcing the filing of four counts of aggravated first-degree murder charges against Gary Ridgway.

17:17Ridgway, a 54-year-old truck painter and seemingly ordinary family man, is the notorious Green River Killer,

17:25responsible for a string of murders which terrorized Seattle in the 1980s.

17:30Well, next-door neighbor, he lives right behind me.

17:33The whole thing is just a shock to me. I never expected.

17:36He don't deserve to live at all.

17:40Killing my niece.

17:41I'm pleased that they got him. It's a little spooky that he's living right here in my neighborhood, though.

17:50Ridgway was arrested in 2001.

17:54Two years later, he is expected to avoid the death penalty as part of a plea agreement.

17:59Ridgway has been cooperating, but is he telling them everything?

18:03We're just enough to make a deal.

18:06Now that Ridgway was behind bars, investigators could focus on his confessions.

18:11We're back with tape again. It's a time now. It is 1130 in the morning.

18:15But as I learned from my years sitting across the table from Bundy,

18:20prying confessions out of a pathological liar and killer isn't easy.

18:25A little bit earlier, we were talking about the need to get right on the interview of a suspect.

18:34How would you go about doing it?

18:37I think it is logical that a lot of the person has had the liberty.

18:40First, you have to drink every guy at this point.

18:42It's going to be hard for them to talk about it.

18:44But the extent that you take the time to talk to them, not just a few hours, but many days.

18:52Ridgway started confessing when he was caught, not after a death sentence.

18:57He played the card that Bundy should have played from the beginning.

19:01It is only because of that death penalty being in place at the time

19:09that Ridgway had any incentive at all to cooperate with the police.

19:15We're going to move on to number seven.

19:17We spent about six months interviewing him, essentially seven days a week,

19:21videotaping the interviews and bringing in a number of different people to try to solve those cases.

19:26Good morning.

19:28Right.

19:28I worked in the FBI's behavioral analysis unit.

19:32I worked primarily serial sexual murder cases.

19:36How have you been?

19:37Good.

19:38I got a call from the prosecutor.

19:41He felt I could be helpful if I would come in and I would talk to Gary about his early developmental years.

19:50And I said, yes, of course I will.

19:52The opportunity to talk to Gary Ridgway?

19:54Yes.

19:55Let me ask you this.

19:57After those reports of Bundy helping Keppel, those reports went to the FBI, of course, the behavioral science unit.

20:09Bob Keppel began the process of teaching other police agencies and the FBI about serial killers.

20:17In the 70s, people didn't share information.

20:20If the serial killer were to hit in one town and then the adjacent town, there was no guarantee that those agencies would talk to one another.

20:31Keppel set us on the road to developing VICAP, which is the violent crime apprehension program that the FBI runs to share information about cases, both solved and unsolved.

20:42We know that there are answers that you would have kept because of the secret side of you that you had to protect for many years.

20:58It would be very difficult to be able to share what you did.

21:02As a profiler and as an investigator, I studied the interviews with Ted Bundy about the Green River Killer.

21:11There was some accuracy about Gary in those interviews.

21:14My initial impressions was this guy is young.

21:20He has a low-paying job and he stricts his movement.

21:22He doesn't have a lot of money.

21:23He can't move around.

21:24This guy is normal as a big whore.

21:28Bundy believed the river man had a stable job with a regular, normal work schedule.

21:34And he was right.

21:35I worked in the paint department along with him.

21:41He took his job very seriously.

21:43He was a good employee.

21:47He's married.

21:48He's got kids.

21:51You know, on the outside, it looks normal.

21:54If he walked in here right now, there's nothing about him that would make you think,

21:58this is one scary, dangerous-looking guy that's capable of doing these kinds of things.

22:03I'd plan to go out and kill him.

22:07Went to work and got off a little bit early and I think I'll pick up somebody and kill him.

22:15Nobody suspected I was a killer.

22:22Bundy was right about the Green River Killer's targets, too.

22:27A lot of these girls knew that there was somebody out there who was looking for people like them.

22:33And they continued to disappear because the guy who approached them did not fit their profile.

22:39The Green River guy is like a fish in water.

22:42What is this guy's dream?

22:46The hunt.

22:46Every day, his route to and from work was up and down Pacific Highway South.

22:56So going to and from work, he's always looking for prey.

22:59There was a kid in a candy store there.

23:03You're driving home and there's a prostitute.

23:06It's just so tempting to date her and kill her.

23:08The victims, according to him, were almost ubiquitous.

23:15He wasn't often able to say what race they were, how they were dressed, where he picked them up.

23:20But what he could remember were these areas and they were like his special areas.

23:25It's almost as if Ridgeway kept their bodies as trophies.

23:27There's a certain aspect of possessiveness where the corpse could easily be as important as the life it did.

23:35Bundy was right about the Riverman's dedication to his dump sites.

23:39And worse, he was right about why Ridgeway returned to them again and again.

23:45They were my possessions.

23:48And they're still your possessions, aren't they?

23:51Yes.

23:52Came back to visit because they were all special.

23:56I think he's coming back when it went back to work in the body.

23:58But it may be a fetish, it may be a necrophilia.

24:11Obviously, what he's doing is not normal, so he cannot apply normal standards to it.

24:16He's coming back to check out.

24:18He's pushing the body, maybe going back to get whatever kick he gets out of, you know?

24:24I was just thinking about post-mortem activities, you know?

24:29Whether he gets off by molesting the corpses or whatever, it might be part of the pattern of it, I'd say, a ritual.

24:39Bundy imagined the killer returning to his dump sites for private moments with his victims.

24:44And he was right.

24:49Ridgeway admitted to his depravity.

24:54Walk me through the post-defense behavior with a victim that generates so much anger or strong feelings in you.

25:03I was one of the first ones I had control over, so I had sex with her afterwards.

25:17My style is to use the one trait that I think is probably the most important trait for a profiler, and that is to listen.

25:28Okay.

25:29I sat very close to him.

25:31I wanted to make sure that he knew that I was there and that I was watching him.

25:36So you'd want to continue to have sex with them after they were dead because you worked so hard at getting them dead?

25:42Mm-hmm.

25:42Does that make sense to you?

25:43That's one, yeah.

25:44Okay.

25:44His posing was about getting them into a position where he could more easily have sex with their dead bodies.

25:53Because you can imagine the difficulty once somebody has died and rigor mortis sets in.

26:00Do you remember ever coming back?

26:02Would you have uncovered her, you know, the brush and stuff off of her and tried to have sex with her again?

26:09I might have come back, I might screw him for two, three days.

26:19For a serial killer, his dump sites are living places that occupy his memory.

26:26This is where his possessions are.

26:28He owns these locations just as he owns the victims.

26:34Ridgway made this very clear to his interviewers.

26:36Justice Mundy made it very clear to me.

26:40He told us about one particular instance where he had killed one of his victims, but he didn't want to be late to work.

26:46So he just had her in the back of the pickup truck and drove to work.

26:52Going to and from work, I walked by that truck and didn't know that there more than likely was somebody's daughter or mother laying in the back.

27:02It's unimaginable to think of murdering somebody, let alone repeatedly having sex with the dead bodies.

27:12Ted Bundy was more accurate in profiling the serial killer than the police were.

27:19He was right all along the line.

27:21One thing Bundy didn't know was where Ridgway's bodies were buried.

27:28King County needed Ridgway to confess to 48 murders and to tell them where he'd buried his victims.

27:35As Bundy told me back in 88, to get a killer to talk, the investigator needs two things.

27:43Time and patience.

27:46His thought patterns would be so tightly controlled that even when the day comes for him to talk about it, it would be very difficult.

27:55Not because he necessarily doesn't want to talk about it, but because he can't open up.

28:01Ted Bundy could recite for you everything that he did.

28:05Down to the last detail.

28:08And it bothers me that you can't.

28:11It's because I've been covering up, covering, coming up so long.

28:16You think Ted Bundy didn't cover things up for a long time?

28:20I don't even try to think about it.

28:21I just got to think about it.

28:23You had 20 years to think about it.

28:25You had 20 years to forget about it, too.

28:29Every day was certainly not successful.

28:31It was very, very frustrating to have ongoing conversation.

28:36It wasn't like once you opened him up, floodgates.

28:39It wasn't that at all.

28:41Every day with Gary was a challenge.

28:44Mr. Ridgway, I still try to get a sense from you of just how effective a serial killer that you were and how much insight that you have into your behavior.

28:55When you're talking to these people, you will never break down their psychopathy.

29:00That will never happen.

29:02You will never break it down.

29:03You will never make it go away.

29:05And some of them want to take this to their grave.

29:09We get paid to try to find out what the truth is.

29:11And it has been difficult here this week with you.

29:14There have been times when you have not been honest with us.

29:17The last couple of days, I've been trying to tell you everything I knew.

29:20You get frustrated and I get frustrated and fight about what I did.

29:24The investigative team could not be satisfied with just having Gary relay to them about,

29:31I killed this person and put her there.

29:33I killed this person and put her there.

29:35They had to verify that what he was saying to them was true.

29:39I know where the women are.

29:42I can show you where they're at.

29:45Where's the first location?

29:46The first location is down that road down there to your left on the east side of those bushes.

29:53In Ridgway's twisted mind, the dump sites were his private territory.

30:00Would he spill his secrets and lead investigators to those long buried bodies?

30:09Gary Ridgway and the prosecutors agreed that in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table,

30:19Ridgway would tell the truth about his crimes and lead investigators to his victim's remains.

30:25He would also plead guilty to aggravated murder in the first degree for the 41 other murders.

30:33Him going into a plea deal, personally, I don't agree with it.

30:38He still holds the cards because he can sit there and tell these guys,

30:42Hey, I think I remember so-and-so now.

30:45Let me take you over here.

30:46We weren't going to just take his word for what he said happened.

30:49We actually needed to find some corroborating evidence

30:52before we would charge him with a murder or allow him to plead guilty to it.

30:57Show us where you killed her.

31:00Based upon information that he would give us, we would set up a field trip.

31:04We would leave in the hours of darkness so that nobody would see us leaving the office,

31:08put a baseball cap on him, and then go out.

31:10I don't think any of us appreciated just how difficult it would be to find remains after 20 years.

31:28And he was really difficult to talk to.

31:32It was very frustrating.

31:33I just put her right in here.

31:36There's something right there.

31:38What is it? There it is.

31:40Isn't that a teeth?

31:41Is that a teeth? Oh, sorry.

31:44I don't have a teeth.

31:46The plea agreement was going nowhere,

31:48and it was frustrating to see Ridgeway enjoy his field trips and relive his murders.

31:54After months of feeling jerked around, investigators reminded Ridgeway what was at stake.

32:00If we discover evidence linking you to a homicide that you've denied or haven't mentioned to us,

32:08there'll be big pressure on the prosecutor to seek the death penalty as an aggravated murder.

32:13You understand that?

32:13I know that.

32:14Okay.

32:14I'm going to try to give you as much credibility as I can.

32:18When you go out to that site, you are going to find a body.

32:23Yesterday, detectives dug up at least a dozen human bones.

32:30First thing this morning, they found some more remains.

32:32These bones are women.

32:37Somebody's daughter.

32:39They're somebody's sister.

32:40And for us, our primary motivation was to return them to their families as we could.

32:46I hope he's continued to cooperate and the other families can come to closure with theirs.

32:54I really do hope so.

33:00By the time Gary Ridgeway leaves court later this morning,

33:03he is expected to plead guilty to the murders of nearly 50 women.

33:08He only pled to 48 because those are the 48 we could tie him to.

33:16Ridgway was spared the death penalty and the community was spared the anguish of a trial.

33:25On the day of sentencing, the victim's family members were finally able to speak their minds.

33:31We are here today for the sentencing of Gary Leon Ridgeway.

33:37Representatives of the victim's families will address the court.

33:42Gary Leon Ridgeway, I forgive you.

33:45You can't hold me anymore.

33:47My life now is lived to one day be with little Opal.

33:51Because I have that hope of seeing her again.

33:54The victim families that wanted to speak talked about their pain and their loss.

33:59Debra Estes was my daughter.

34:01She was just an immature teenager trying to find her way in life

34:06before it was snuffed out by Gary Ridgeway.

34:10I will never forgive him for that.

34:12He's gonna go to hell and that's where he belongs.

34:16May God have mercy on your pathetic soul because the rest of us who know the truth about you won't.

34:21I was only five when my mother died.

34:25I found out on Mother's Day.

34:33There's nothing that anybody can say or ever do for me that will bring my mother back.

34:39The one thing that I want you Gary Ridgeway to know, I was that daughter at home waiting for my mom to come home.

34:49I still get emotional when I think about it.

34:51Hearing these people who felt like their daughters had not been acknowledged as people.

35:03After today, I will not give this parasite a thought to my fellow families.

35:10From here on, we will embrace our daughters, our sisters, our mothers, our wives, and our hearts.

35:16But we will honor them by living.

35:18I've been waiting for this day to come, Gary Loser Ridgeway.

35:24You are a loser. You are a coward.

35:26You are nobody. You are an animal.

35:29If I have a chance right now to do what I want to do to you,

35:32I want you to feel what you did to these victims.

35:35But I can't.

35:37I hope you're right in hell.

35:40Son of a...

35:41Please, please, please refrain from applauding.

35:45It's inappropriate in a court proceeding.

35:46There's no reason to apologize, sir.

35:48My sister Tammy has been missed for 41 years.

36:06And we've had to live with her loss.

36:08I've had plenty of time to reflect on my feelings towards Gary Ridgeway and what he did.

36:15I've had to learn to forgive him, but I will never forget.

36:20Forgiveness doesn't set Gary free of his wrongs, but it sets me free from an internal prison of hatred in my heart.

36:27I will always be grateful to the King County Sheriff's Office and its course of other law enforcement agencies who over the years helped to bring closure to so many families.

36:40I ask you to remember those 48 young women as people who had unexplored dreams, hopes, aspirations, and families that loved them deeply.

36:54Please know the women who killed were not throwaways or pieces of candy in a dish placed upon this planet for the sole purpose of satisfying your murderous desires.

37:06The women Ridgeway and Bundy murdered are not forgotten.

37:16But they are gone now from this earth.

37:21Their families, friends, and the investigators who tracked them down are forever damaged by these two unspeakable monsters.

37:29People always tell me, oh, he was so smart.

37:32Ted was so smart and good looking.

37:34No, he was stupid and ugly.

37:37Because if you do stuff like that, you are the ugliest piece of s*** that anyone could ever have to look at.

37:42Only an investigator who is hunted for a serial killer like Ted Bundy or Gary Ridgeway knows how a case consumes their every waking moment at the expense of their personal lives.

38:00After I left the attorney general's office, I devoted my career to helping investigators keep these killers off the streets.

38:11Ted Bundy helped me write the book on interviewing serial killers.

38:15He gave me a look inside the mind of one.

38:19We have no way to study serial killers.

38:23We sent them to death.

38:25We kill them.

38:26There's no vehicle with which to study those people under cooperative circumstances.

38:33The better you understand it, the better you can one may prevent it or help you apprehend the people that you need to apprehend.

38:42The world made so much of Bundy, but in the end, he was nothing.

38:50There's really much less to him than meets the eye.

38:54But he's been elevated to this genius status in the media.

38:59He's been given too much credit for too long.

39:01And I think it would honor the victims if he received a demotion in that regard.

39:07What's gotten lost is the sight of the victims and the victims' families, because they're the ones that suffer.

39:18We talk about her all the time.

39:22Granddaughters and great-granddaughters carry her name.

39:26She'll always be a member of our family.

39:29It's part of our history that we can't deny, and we don't want to.

39:40This is something that is a life sentence.

39:43It lives with you forever.

39:45I hate, with a passion, the word closure.

39:51Closure is for everybody else that doesn't have nightmares, depression, or anxiety, or, you know, just the things that crime victims often go through.

40:04In the end, I am now forever with PTSD.

40:10I have anxiety, panic attacks, and I'm extremely afraid of the woods.

40:19Things that were fun before are not fun anymore.

40:22Even now, after all the time that has passed since Bundy's execution, I find myself struggling as I think of the Bundy case.

40:35And I feel once more that grief and stress that overwhelmed me during this investigation.

40:42It did take a little toll on him, on his health, stress-wise.

40:48He had a heart attack pretty young and heart problems.

40:53He eventually had a stroke.

40:54Bob was the kind of person that if he was going to do something, he was going to do it to the best of his ability.

41:17And that's what he did his whole life.

41:20I've often thought Keppel has not gotten his due in terms of the kind of work he put into this case and what he drew out of the Bundy case to improve investigations for future investigators.