Skip to playerSkip to main content
Stefan Molyneux
  • 6 months ago
The interview explores the intersection of philosophy, drug use, mental health, and parenting through a dialogue with callers. Topics include the role of skepticism toward drug use in enhancing creativity and the distinction between recreational and medically supervised use. The host discusses the historical context of psychedelics in philosophical practices and cautions against conflating drug effects with cognitive enhancement.

The conversation shifts to the emotional challenges faced by parents of special needs children, emphasizing themes of grief, acceptance, and the importance of open communication in relationships. Callers share personal experiences, leading to discussions on coping strategies and maintaining emotional well-being amid challenges. The host balances empathy with philosophical inquiry, aiming to support listeners in navigating complex life situations while questioning societal narratives around drugs and parenting.

FOLLOW ME ON X! https://x.com/StefanMolyneux

GET MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING', THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI, AND THE FULL AUDIOBOOK!
https://peacefulparenting.com/

Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!

Subscribers get 12 HOURS on the "Truth About the French Revolution," multiple interactive multi-lingual philosophy AIs trained on thousands of hours of my material - as well as AIs for Real-Time Relationships, Bitcoin, Peaceful Parenting, and Call-In Shows!

You also receive private livestreams, HUNDREDS of exclusive premium shows, early release podcasts, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and much more!

See you soon!
https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2025
Transcript
00:00:00Hey, good evening, everybody. Hope you're doing well. 21st of July, 2025. Sorry, I had to start the space three times before X appeared to pick it up, but we are alive and kicking, and I'm happy to take your questions.
00:00:16As critics, if you've got a criticism of me or what it is that I propose or argue for, hopefully, a little bit more along the lines, rather than my, say, personal hygiene or toe-painting habits, if you've got issues with anything I've said or criticisms, things you disagree with, happy to be corrected, happy to be set straight.
00:00:35We are on a mutual journey towards truth, and I look forward to your questions and comments. All you have to do is request, as Monsieur Shaman has done it right. Shaman? Dark web Shaman, no less. If you want to unmute.
00:00:57It's fun. How are you doing?
00:00:58Good. How are you doing?
00:01:00Doing pretty good. Just got some salmon cooking here. Let's see. So you had said, you had a tweet the other day about drugs, and I don't know if it was specifically about weed or psychedelics or what, but, you know, the ancient Greeks, they did partake of specific elixirs, sort of, you know, mushrooms and ergot and that kind of thing.
00:01:22And I think the place we would agree is that those are not chemicals that should be used, like, willy-nilly.
00:01:29They should be...
00:01:30I'm sorry, sorry, just to interrupt. So, just help me understand. So, what's the purpose of bringing up that the ancient Greeks, some people in the ancient Greek world did drugs?
00:01:42What's the point of it?
00:01:43Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you. Of course, they were.
00:01:45I sort of say the ancient Greeks is sort of like an apotheosis of philosophy. I don't know if anybody ever did philosophy better than...
00:01:52Well, in my personal opinion, the pre-Socratics are probably the best, but that's sort of my standard, is the ancient Greek philosophy.
00:02:00Okay, and do you know if the ancient Greek philosophers themselves did drugs?
00:02:05Well, yeah, a lot of them did, because there was a cult of Eleusis, and that was part of the initiation rite. That was just a normal part of life in ancient Greece. So, Plato...
00:02:15So, your argument, and you know more about this than I do, so obviously I'm going to rely upon your expertise. So, your argument is that the ancient Greeks did drugs, they were good at philosophy, therefore drugs help philosophy?
00:02:32It's not that... I mean, they can't, yes. It's not that black and white. I don't think anybody... I don't think everybody should do them.
00:02:38I think they should be allowed for an exclusive priestly class, perhaps someone like yourself, with much...
00:02:46Oh, God, no. I'm never doing drugs. Like, never in a million years. Like, no, never in a million years. Because, listen, I mean, okay, so let's say that the Beatles' Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds is, as people think, Lucy Sky Diamonds LSD, right?
00:03:01So, let's say that the Beatles did a lot of drugs and produced a fantastic album, Sgt. Pepper's, right?
00:03:07So, then you might say, well, drugs facilitate creativity, right? Now, of course, they were creative before they did drugs, they were creative after they did drugs, and there are, of course, literally billions of people around the world who do drugs and aren't producing albums like Sgt. Pepper.
00:03:20So, I'm concerned that you have a causality problem.
00:03:26I would agree with that. It's not a panacea. But, I would say, just like with a, you know, a rocket ship, you need a certain kind of fuel. If you put a rocket ship in a car...
00:03:39Okay, but analogies, hang on, but analogies are not proof, right?
00:03:43So, have you done a lot of drugs?
00:03:46Not a lot. You know, the thing about psychedelics is, a lot of times, you just have to do it one time.
00:03:51That's it.
00:03:51Okay, so you've done psychedelics, right?
00:03:53Yep.
00:03:54Okay, so if psychedelics facilitate philosophy, tell me about the logical or rational or syllogistical arguments you got out of doing drugs.
00:04:03Hmm. Well, you know, I would say that they align me a lot more with Nisha Machiavelli.
00:04:10You know, they speak a lot about being in the moment, and Nisha specifically is sort of an anti-philosophy, right?
00:04:16So, he is much more about the here and now, the present moment, and that's sort of what I, what was my takeaway from drugs is that, you know, we're much more...
00:04:26Wait, your takeaway from drugs is the present moment?
00:04:29Yeah, because, you know...
00:04:30How is that philosophy? How is the present moment philosophy?
00:04:34How is the present moment philosophy?
00:04:35Well...
00:04:36Yeah.
00:04:36If we spent, people spend a lot of time thinking about the past and the future, right? Maybe even too much. And it might be better for them if they spent more time doing what they could today.
00:04:46And I would say, actually, most mental illness stems from people ruminating on things from the past or things that could happen in the future.
00:04:54No, not true.
00:04:55You don't think so?
00:04:56No, no, that's not... No, I know that. It's not true.
00:04:58Oh.
00:04:58Most mental illness stems from child abuse.
00:05:01Oh, you know, you might have a point there. That's definitely...
00:05:04Oh, no, I definitely... I'm not right about everything, obviously, but this one, this one, I know I'm right about.
00:05:09Now, if you had drugs, if you took drugs and drugs facilitated the pursuit of truth, then why wouldn't you have noticed that mental illness comes from child abuse because you took drugs?
00:05:23Like, why is that a surprise to you if drugs facilitate... And you don't mind me playing devil's advocate here, right? I'm just...
00:05:28Oh, that's what I'm here for, Stefan.
00:05:30Okay.
00:05:30So, given that I think it was a surprise, and you recognize the truth in what I said, that it is child abuse that fuels most mental illnesses, not whatever ruminating on the past or the future and all of that, then if drugs...
00:05:46I haven't done drugs, and I've understood that you have done drugs and that hadn't crossed your mind, so who's the better at understanding causality, at least in this particular realm?
00:05:54Well, you know, I think drugs, you know, if somebody is abused as a child, they can have a sort of tension or sort of a confusion in them.
00:06:03And, you know, studies have shown that drugs like Indiana are great for treating PTSD.
00:06:10So, there's something happens with that abuse, either in childhood or actually, it can happen later in life, too.
00:06:17Soldiers, they go to war, they have abuse that happens, and they come back, and they have PTSD.
00:06:21And the studies have shown that, I mean, it's not a perfect treatment, but if you take something like MDMA or ketamine, that that can be used to help treat a mental illness.
00:06:36What do you think about that?
00:06:38Well, it's being researched, and it's also been used in combination with psychotherapy.
00:06:45I don't know how, and it's also severe PTSD, and I'm not sure how long the effects last.
00:06:52I think there have been some issues around the length of the effects.
00:06:55I wouldn't, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if that was...
00:06:56But here's the thing.
00:06:58But let's say that MDMA is an effective treatment for PTSD, right?
00:07:05I think that there's some doubt about that, but let's just take that as a given,
00:07:08that MDMA is a good treatment for PTSD, but that's not how people take drugs, and then that's not what we would refer to as taking drugs.
00:07:20Oh, right.
00:07:21Yeah, I would totally agree with you.
00:07:22Right, because that would be...
00:07:23We're completely on the same page, yeah.
00:07:24Yeah, so when you conflate or put in, well, there's medical reasons to take these drugs,
00:07:32and you put that in together with people who are just frying their brains recreationally.
00:07:36Oh, no, no, no, no.
00:07:36No, no, hang on, hang on.
00:07:38No, you brought it in.
00:07:40I was talking about the ancient Greeks, and the ancient Greeks...
00:07:43No, no, you...
00:07:44Okay, bro, bro, bro.
00:07:46They had a very measured and very controlled...
00:07:49Can you hear me at all?
00:07:50I'm not even sure if you can hear me.
00:07:50Yeah, I can hear you a little bit.
00:07:51Okay, because...
00:07:52Oh, you can't hear me much?
00:07:53Yeah, I can hear you now.
00:07:55Okay, all right.
00:07:56Who brought up MDMA?
00:07:58I brought up MDMA.
00:08:00Okay, so when I refer...
00:08:01So when you talk about taking drugs for enlightenment or philosophy or whatever, discovering the here
00:08:08and now, and then you bring up MDMA as a treatment for PTSD, you are, I think, willfully, and I
00:08:16think kind of sneakily, trying to conflate two things.
00:08:18I think...
00:08:19One is...
00:08:19No, bro, bro, let me finish my thought, okay?
00:08:24Because if drugs made you wise, you should be wise enough to have a conversation without
00:08:28interrupting someone constantly.
00:08:30So if somebody is on heavy painkillers, right?
00:08:35They're on opiates.
00:08:36Now, if somebody is taking opiates recreationally, we would call them a drug addict.
00:08:40However, if somebody's just had back surgery and they're on opiates, we would not call them a drug user.
00:08:45We would call them taking medical treatments for the sake of pain to give themselves a chance to heal, right?
00:08:51Yeah, we completely agree.
00:08:52If somebody is taking marijuana because they're going through chemotherapy and it helps control the nausea and not for listening to Dark Side of the Moon while watching The Wizard of Oz backwards, right?
00:09:04Then we would say that they are medicinally using.
00:09:07We completely agree.
00:09:09Okay, so it's dishonest to bring in medical treatments into a conversation about recreational drug use.
00:09:17I wasn't talking about recreational drug use at all.
00:09:20Yes, you were.
00:09:20You seem confused.
00:09:22No, I specifically brought up the rites of the leucis in ancient Greece.
00:09:26That was not recreational.
00:09:28That was very controlled.
00:09:29It was closer to a medical...
00:09:31That was the closest thing that we would have to a medical treatment today.
00:09:36A medical treatment?
00:09:37Hang on.
00:09:38You said that the purpose of these drugs was to get you into the now.
00:09:42That's not a medical treatment?
00:09:44No, I said that the ancient Greeks had a very controlled ritual at the mountain of Eleusis and that that is much closer to a medical treatment.
00:09:54A treatment for what?
00:09:56I'm sorry?
00:09:57A treatment for what?
00:09:59Well, what would they say?
00:10:00They might say soul sickness.
00:10:02Oh, come on.
00:10:04Oh, come on.
00:10:05You can't fuck around with terms this much.
00:10:09It's disorienting.
00:10:11Right?
00:10:11So you can't say, well, I'm talking about medical treatments and it's like they were soul sick.
00:10:16That's not a medical treatment.
00:10:18Well, they wouldn't consider it a medical treatment back in, you know, 400 BC in Greece.
00:10:23They wouldn't see it that way.
00:10:25They wouldn't consider it a medical treatment.
00:10:27That's correct.
00:10:28Yes, I think that's a more it's a very sort of over analytical sort of institutionalized view that we have today that things that maybe back then that would be considered a malady of the soul or just considered something wrong with your brain.
00:10:43That's how we have a very material sort of perspective here in modernity.
00:10:47Okay, so what you're saying is that there's something wrong with the human brain that drugs fix.
00:10:54In some cases, yes.
00:10:55Well, in which cases?
00:10:57How do you know?
00:10:57How do you know ahead of time which human brains is...
00:11:01Sorry, I'm still talking.
00:11:02Okay.
00:11:03How do you know ahead of time which human brain is somehow broken or has the wrong balance of whatever, whatever, so that it can be fixed with drugs?
00:11:12And how do you know which brain is already functioning fine and to which drugs will be a negative?
00:11:18That's a great...
00:11:19That is the question.
00:11:20That's the question.
00:11:22Right.
00:11:22So how do you know?
00:11:23I don't...
00:11:23I've had a long time to think on this.
00:11:24I'm not a doctor.
00:11:25I'm not a priest.
00:11:26I'm just a guy.
00:11:27So you're talking about the positive effects of drugs.
00:11:32You're pushing drugs in a way, but you don't have any idea whether they're good or bad for people and you have no way of telling.
00:11:39I know they're good and bad for some people because we've already established that, haven't we?
00:11:41Well, yeah, but you're just saying that drugs are good in general.
00:11:47Oh, I never said that.
00:11:48So they get you into the here and now.
00:11:51The best philosophers in history used them.
00:11:55And is that not talking about the positives?
00:11:57Well, that was to the elite.
00:11:58So the normal Greek population was not allowed to use the potions of Eleusis.
00:12:05And actually, there were a few different cases where people tried to copy the potion that was used at Eleusis.
00:12:10It was always a very closely kept secret.
00:12:12It was a verbal tradition that was never written down.
00:12:17And sometimes people tried to make it, and they took it, and they died.
00:12:20So it was not something to be taken lightly.
00:12:23It was always something that we had to be planned out very carefully, very meticulously.
00:12:27Okay, so how did the ancient Greek priests know who was going to be enlightened and who was going to be damaged?
00:12:35That's a great question.
00:12:37I don't know the answer to it.
00:12:38I would have to be a priest at Eleusis to know the answer to that question.
00:12:41Come on.
00:12:42Do you think they knew?
00:12:43Oh, well, yeah.
00:12:45I think they had a better idea than I do.
00:12:47They had no idea, man.
00:12:49They didn't have brain scans, MRIs, blood tests.
00:12:52They couldn't peer inside the skull.
00:12:53They had no clue, unless you're going to say that they prayed to their God.
00:12:57Hang on, hang on, hang on.
00:12:58Still talking, still talking, still talking, still talking, still talking, still talking, still talking, still talking, still talking, still talking.
00:13:06Even the most advanced medical controls.
00:13:11Okay, that's just the most unmitigated bullshit I've heard in a while.
00:13:14And Lord knows I've heard some bullshit in my day.
00:13:16Listen, I mean, in all seriousness, don't push drugs, kids.
00:13:21Like, don't push drugs.
00:13:22Don't fucking push drugs.
00:13:24Don't talk about how great they are, ancient mysteries, Elysium rituals, Greek philosophers, enlightenment.
00:13:31Don't push drugs.
00:13:33Don't push drugs.
00:13:34Don't have that shit on your conscience, bros.
00:13:36Don't do it.
00:13:37Don't do it.
00:13:38Don't have that stuff on your conscience.
00:13:39Because you're going to sit there talking about, oh, cool, ancient Greek philosophers, man, enlightenment, and somebody's going to fry their fucking brain, and it's going to be on you to some degree.
00:13:49Don't do it.
00:13:51Don't push this shit.
00:13:52And you certainly don't push this poison on my channel.
00:13:54And if this guy has learned so much from his drug use, why is he unable to answer a question?
00:14:00Why is he unable to stop interrupting?
00:14:03Why is he unable to tell me any particular insight or syllogism or philosophy that he got out of taking drugs?
00:14:12In my view, he fried his brain.
00:14:15And because he fried his brain, it's almost like the drugs fried his brain.
00:14:19And then the drugs are using his fried brain to jump to fry other people's brains.
00:14:25And I view the brains of my audience, if not mankind as a whole, as far too precious and treasured a resource to put in these stupid, cowardly, bullshit drugs.
00:14:39Stay in reality.
00:14:40Now, I get that people say, well, I think too much.
00:14:43I worry too much about the future.
00:14:44And I think too much.
00:14:45I ruminate on the past.
00:14:46Okay, look, these are all challenges.
00:14:48And these are all challenges that all of us have.
00:14:51I say this, you know, with great sympathy.
00:14:53Secondly, it's an Aristotelian mean.
00:14:55And it's a balancing act in life.
00:14:57And there's no clear or certain answers.
00:15:00It is certainly true that we can worry too much about the future.
00:15:04It is certainly true that we can ruminate and regret on the past too much.
00:15:09Absolutely.
00:15:10And these things can be a problem.
00:15:12How do you solve that problem?
00:15:14That's another challenge.
00:15:15Now, it is also true that some people live way too much in the present.
00:15:23Way too much in the present.
00:15:25In fact, addicts, by definition, spend way too much time in the present.
00:15:31They don't think about the future that much.
00:15:34And they're not learning from the past.
00:15:36Think of alcoholics.
00:15:37Are they thinking about liver damage in 10 or 20 years?
00:15:39Nope.
00:15:40Are they remembering all of the things they've lost?
00:15:42All of the nights they've lost?
00:15:44All of the terrible decisions they've made?
00:15:45All the cars they've totaled?
00:15:47When they're reaching for the next drink?
00:15:48Nope.
00:15:49They're just thinking about the now.
00:15:51So the past, the now, the future is an Aristotelian mean balancing act.
00:15:56You don't want to think too much about the past or future because I agree.
00:16:01Then you're not really living in the present.
00:16:03However, you also don't want to ignore the past and the future because the future is just
00:16:08another present we have to live in later.
00:16:11Right?
00:16:11So I think about my future.
00:16:14You know, I did a lot of work today, brothers and sisters, let me tell you.
00:16:19I got up and I went through a bunch of video shorts and posted them.
00:16:24And then I worked for like an hour coming up with the perfect tweet for publishing my theory
00:16:31of ethics, university of preferable behavior.
00:16:32And then I spent about an hour answering questions.
00:16:36And then I wrote a new chapter of my book.
00:16:40And then I basically just kind of passed out on the couch for a little bit.
00:16:44And then I sort of woke up and I was chatting with my wife and we played a game of Catan and
00:16:49I had a little food.
00:16:51And, and, and before we play Catan, I, or during Catan, I, I went and exercised and boy, did
00:16:58I, did I not want to exercise?
00:17:00Like I was feeling pretty mellow and I just, I really didn't want to work out, but you know,
00:17:04I didn't work out yesterday and I don't mind working out twice in a row, like two days,
00:17:08but I don't want three days.
00:17:09Like I don't want two days gap.
00:17:11So I didn't work out yesterday.
00:17:13I had to work out today.
00:17:14So I just didn't want to do it.
00:17:15Now, why do I do it?
00:17:15Because, because the future is a place I have to live if I'm lucky.
00:17:19And I want it to be a future of, you know, strength and competence and health and all
00:17:24of that kind of stuff.
00:17:25Like I'd sure, I mean, I'm very lucky that I'm not one of the 40% of guys with back problems
00:17:30or I don't know what percentage of guys with knee problems, but you know, backs and knees
00:17:33are a problem because we're still half quadrupeds and we're still, our body's getting used to.
00:17:39And did you know that the fact that we're vertical is actually one of the reasons we have our
00:17:43big brains?
00:17:44Because we're vertical, we get less hot in the sun, so we don't need as much water.
00:17:48So there's more water available for our brains to function.
00:17:52So the fact that we're bipeds working upright is one of the reasons we have our big brains.
00:17:56So I don't want a future with back pain.
00:17:58I don't want a future with knee pain.
00:18:00I don't want a future with weak bones.
00:18:02I don't want a future.
00:18:03I want to be able to, you know, still, I just, I did a couple of months ago, I did a
00:18:07wind sprint with my daughter.
00:18:08Like I still want to be able to do that kind of stuff.
00:18:10I don't want to be able to play pickleball and, and, and ski if I, if I want to and all
00:18:14of that kind of stuff, right?
00:18:16So you don't want to regret the past perpetually.
00:18:20You don't want to worry about the future or think about the future perpetually.
00:18:23Daydream, right?
00:18:24Daydream instead of achievement, AKA video games.
00:18:27But at the same time, you know, this big insight that we want to live more in the present,
00:18:32sure, whatever, right?
00:18:33But that's not philosophy.
00:18:34That's, I don't know, that's like fortune cookie goop.
00:18:36So, and I've heard these arguments a million times before.
00:18:41I'm sure I'll hear them a million times again.
00:18:44And I don't want to immediately dismiss people right away, right?
00:18:49So I don't want to immediately say to people, you're full of crap.
00:18:52It's not true.
00:18:53It's not valid.
00:18:54I don't want to say that.
00:18:56And I can't tell you how many hundreds and hundreds of people over the last 40 years
00:19:01who say to me, hey man, drugs, they just open up your third eye.
00:19:05And they give you a view and a perception and a depth and a, yeah, it's 20 years of
00:19:08psychotherapy in one night.
00:19:10It's always the same druggy Vegas voice.
00:19:13And I'm like, oh, cool.
00:19:14Okay.
00:19:15So tell me what big insight, what philosophical syllogism, what great advancement in the field
00:19:20of ethics or epistemology or metaphysics or politics or science, what great advancement
00:19:26did you, oh, and it always turns out to be something completely trite.
00:19:29Well, it's important to live more in the now.
00:19:31It's like, sometimes, sometimes it is.
00:19:35Sometimes it isn't.
00:19:36And for those of us like the ice people, those of us who come from colder climates,
00:19:40our ancestors didn't do so fucking well when they lived a whole lot in the now, right?
00:19:45Grasshopper and the ant style, right?
00:19:47You know that story, the grasshopper sits around playing guitar and fingering his ears
00:19:52all summer while the ant is laying up food for the winter.
00:19:55And then the grasshopper starves and the ant stupidly lets him in.
00:20:00Thus, I'm sure, endangering the ant's entire family.
00:20:04But our ancestors, if they just, hey, man, we lived in the now, like, that's fine if you
00:20:07live in the tropics, whatever, right?
00:20:10You don't have winter to contend with.
00:20:12And you can't really do much about the dangers you face because they're mostly viruses and
00:20:16bacteria.
00:20:16Yeah.
00:20:17So, which a lot of which are killed off in cold climates over the winter.
00:20:20So, so just this big inside is important to live more in the now, man.
00:20:24It's like, well, I mean, yeah, sure.
00:20:26Sometimes.
00:20:27And sometimes it's really bad to just live in the now and not plan for the future.
00:20:30So it's not much of an insight.
00:20:32It's not, you know, it's sort of like, it's like the big blinding insight.
00:20:35It's like, you know, you don't want to not exercise because, you know, then you get
00:20:42soft and flab and your bones get weak, man, but at the same time, man, you don't want
00:20:47to exercise too much because you injure yourself, man.
00:20:52Wow.
00:20:52Big brain take.
00:20:54It's like bowling with a giant bowling ball of brain matter, knocking down the pins of
00:21:00ignorance.
00:21:01So, yeah, I mean, when people are like, well, I have to take drugs, man, because it's too
00:21:05hard to get these thoughts and insights on my own.
00:21:08Like, okay, well, what thoughts and insights did you get from drugs?
00:21:12Uh, well, you know that you don't want to love too little because then you're cold hearted,
00:21:20but you don't want to love too much because then you're like stalky.
00:21:24Anyway, and less than 5% of people who take drugs are under the care of a doctor.
00:21:30So, and I really dislike this conflating medical treatments with recreational drug use.
00:21:34All right.
00:21:36Steve, Steve, what's on your mind?
00:21:39And Barrow White style.
00:21:43Oh, baby.
00:21:45Hit me.
00:21:45Are you there?
00:21:48Generalized.
00:21:49Something, something.
00:21:51Generalized.
00:21:52Going once, going twice.
00:21:54Hey, can you hear me?
00:21:55Yes, sir.
00:21:55Go ahead.
00:21:57Well, I guess I had a question.
00:21:58And sorry, what's your username?
00:22:01What's your username?
00:22:02What's my username?
00:22:04Yes.
00:22:04What's your username?
00:22:06Well, it says specified generalizations.
00:22:09So are you being snarky with me?
00:22:12With my username or right now?
00:22:14Yeah, you're kind of being snarky with me.
00:22:15So the reason I need your username is that there was somebody else there and I need, I
00:22:19wanted to make sure I didn't dump you, but the other person, I don't know who's talking.
00:22:22Oh, sorry.
00:22:23Okay.
00:22:23Yeah.
00:22:23No, I'm specified.
00:22:24Yeah.
00:22:24No need to be snarky with me, but I'm just trying to run a show.
00:22:27But anyway, go ahead with your question.
00:22:28Well, you brought up video games just now, and I was listening to what the other guy
00:22:34said before about drugs and all that stuff.
00:22:36I wanted to know, what are your thoughts on video games?
00:22:40Can you be a little bit more specific?
00:22:42Well, in what context?
00:22:44Sure, sure, sure.
00:22:45Do you think that they're particularly stupid or malicious?
00:22:50Do you think they can be productive?
00:22:52Do you think they can be useful?
00:22:53What do you think when you see a grown man who, I don't know, maybe has children and
00:23:00he's playing video games at home?
00:23:02So he has children and he's playing video games at home?
00:23:06Yes.
00:23:07Is he playing video games with his children?
00:23:09No.
00:23:10Okay.
00:23:11So, listen, video games, I've played video games.
00:23:14I mean, I won't say my whole life because I was around kind of before they were around,
00:23:18but I've played video games and I've enjoyed them a lot.
00:23:22And I've got a lot of fun out of it.
00:23:24And I played with friends.
00:23:25I played with my daughter.
00:23:27The game of Catan that I play, I play with my wife.
00:23:29We play on a tablet, right?
00:23:33So we both on tablets.
00:23:35So I think video games are a lot of fun.
00:23:37I think they can be social.
00:23:39I think they can be engaging.
00:23:40I think they can be enjoyable.
00:23:41Because there are some things that are bad in and of themselves, you know, like arsenic.
00:23:46There's not a moderate amount of arsenic you should take, right?
00:23:48Don't touch it at all.
00:23:49There are some things that are beneficial, like you never really overdose on wisdom and
00:23:55knowledge and virtue.
00:23:57And then there are some things that are in the middle, right?
00:24:00Like you need a sort of middle ground.
00:24:02So if somebody doesn't want to play video games, I don't think that that's harmful, obviously.
00:24:07If somebody, as most, hang on, as most teenagers are playing like 20 or more video hours of video
00:24:14games a week, that's messed up, man.
00:24:16That is messed up.
00:24:17That is not getting out in the world.
00:24:19And the problem with video games is that they rewire your brain to believe that there's an
00:24:25achievement that isn't real.
00:24:28It doesn't translate into things in the real world.
00:24:31And so I think that they're fine recreationally.
00:24:33I don't play much.
00:24:35I actually bought the new Doom game like a month or two ago.
00:24:38And I haven't got around to playing it.
00:24:41My daughter and I play some Rocket League, which she's way better at than I am.
00:24:45I mean, it's not a game that really translates too well in my brain, but I do my best.
00:24:50I'm the goalie.
00:24:50I'm the goalie because she's the scorer.
00:24:52So if it's stuff you're doing with family or with friends and kids and all of that, I
00:24:57think that's great.
00:24:59But I think if you're doing it too much alone and you're doing it for too long, then it
00:25:03becomes a substitute for actual achievement that translates into things in the real world.
00:25:10So sorry, go ahead.
00:25:11All right.
00:25:12So basically everything in moderation.
00:25:14I feel like that's kind of the gist of what you're saying.
00:25:16No, no, no.
00:25:17Not everything in moderation.
00:25:18That's remember I said that there were things that were bad in and of themselves.
00:25:23So not everything in moderation, right?
00:25:24Not not axe murdering and arsenic in moderation, not rape in moderation.
00:25:28Yeah.
00:25:28Let me let me rephrase video games in moderation.
00:25:31They're OK.
00:25:31It can be a good thing.
00:25:33Yeah.
00:25:33I mean, listen, I mean, for shy people, it can give you something to talk about.
00:25:37I tell you, sorry, the one of the thing that I have a problem with with regards to video
00:25:40games is that, you know, when I was a kid, I mean, we were all broke.
00:25:47I lived on a sort of welfare council estate and all the kids were broke.
00:25:52And so one of the great challenges that only in hindsight did I realize how important it
00:25:56was, was we would get together and we try and figure out some game and then we'd have
00:26:02to figure out the rules and we'd also have to figure out how to enforce the rules.
00:26:05So I write about this in my novel almost.
00:26:08We had these epic battles with like old tennis balls or, you know, if you saw someone and
00:26:14pointed to them and you said, bang, you hit them and so on.
00:26:16Right.
00:26:17So we had a very elaborate games for rules, like for war games, like you could, you could
00:26:21be an airplane and you had to drop these sycamores.
00:26:23And if they hit the kids, then they were bombed and like just really wild stuff.
00:26:28And that whole process of figuring out the rules and enforcing the rules in sort of creative
00:26:33games was really important because it taught me a lot about negotiation.
00:26:37Now, the problem with, and you've had this, I'm sure, when you were a kid and you play
00:26:42tag and you tag someone and they say, no, no, no, it was just my t-shirt.
00:26:47It wasn't me, you know, whatever it is, right?
00:26:48They, this doesn't, it was just my hair.
00:26:50It just got long hair.
00:26:51It doesn't count.
00:26:52And right.
00:26:52So, and then you, you argue about the rules and arguing about the rules is really important
00:26:56in life because it teaches you how to negotiate.
00:26:58The problem, I think, with kids' activities these days are also structured, right?
00:27:04You, you go to Chuck E. Cheese, you go to a theme park, you go to a, whatever, bouncy
00:27:09castle and everything's kind of structured and the kids aren't arguing, negotiating or
00:27:14debating about rules and how to enforce them.
00:27:17And like the thousands of hours I spent, not just playing, but arguing and debating about
00:27:21rules, I think was really important and certainly gave me an idea for us, the state, the society
00:27:25where people could negotiate the rules.
00:27:27Because if we could negotiate rules and enforce them as kids without a central umpire or coach
00:27:34or adult telling us how to enforce the rules, then if kids can do it, adults can do it and
00:27:39we don't need sort of system that we have now, I think that was very helpful.
00:27:43And of course, video games, there's never any argument about the rules because the rules
00:27:49are enforced by the video game and the server.
00:27:52So, like there's no, I hit you, no you didn't, right, because the computer tells you.
00:27:57So, I think that's sort of a bit missing, but sorry, go ahead.
00:28:00Oh, I think we lost him.
00:28:02Christopher, what's on your mind?
00:28:04I know there's a little bit of a delay here, but I'll be patient.
00:28:08I'll be patient zero.
00:28:10Christopher, go in once.
00:28:12Hey, I'm sorry, I'm driving and my car was a little strange.
00:28:16Can you hear me okay?
00:28:17Are you okay to talk while you're driving, bro?
00:28:19Oh, yes, sir, I have it on the dashboard.
00:28:22Okay, go ahead.
00:28:23So, just looking for maybe a little piece of advice.
00:28:26First of all, glad you're on X, as it were.
00:28:29I've been enjoying reading some of the stuff you're saying.
00:28:33Thanks to our Lord Musk.
00:28:35I'm rematerialized, so go ahead.
00:28:37Yeah.
00:28:38So, my wife and I have been in a bit of a rut, I think, for the past few months.
00:28:45A little bit of backstory is just that my eldest son is severely autistic and
00:28:51we do a lot of therapy and these sorts of things.
00:28:53It takes a lot of time and energy and I think oftentimes a lot of our conversations after
00:28:58they go to sleep and during the daytime revolve around this.
00:29:02And it feels often that we're kind of more like co-workers than we are, I don't know,
00:29:09married and in love and this sort of stuff.
00:29:10And I keep trying to find a way to bring this spark back into it and it's, I don't know,
00:29:16things feel overwhelming and I'm not sure if it's just a season in our life or maybe
00:29:20there's a practical way to set those two things apart and keep us on a good path.
00:29:26Gosh, I'm so sorry to hear about that, Christopher.
00:29:29What's the story with your son?
00:29:31How old is he?
00:29:32What's happened with his development and where is he at now?
00:29:34He's six years old and he has apraxia, which means he can't speak.
00:29:39He also stims and pretty uncontrollably, which makes it very difficult for...
00:29:45Sorry, what is stims?
00:29:46Oh, stimming is, he lacks the ability to control his limbs in a lot of ways.
00:29:51So sometimes he just sort of spazes.
00:29:54And so it's very difficult for him to be around other kids.
00:29:58They don't, his age, they don't understand that they try to talk to him.
00:30:02And so we're, and he also has like this desire and I've heard from other families that have
00:30:07children of this nature, they just sort of bolt, you know?
00:30:11So, you know, there's like locks on every door.
00:30:14And so there's this heightened level of just kind of anxiety that exists about our son,
00:30:19you know, running away or running into traffic if we're not holding him very tightly.
00:30:23And so it's, this is sort of this cloud that hangs around everything all the time.
00:30:28And I'm certainly grateful for my son and I love him, but
00:30:32it's, I think it's a little difficult sometimes to do a regular life on top of it.
00:30:37And, and I'm, I'm rambling a bit.
00:30:40I'm sorry.
00:30:41No, no, you don't have to apologize to anything.
00:30:43If anything, I'm, I'm, again, my heart goes out to you like father to father and man to
00:30:47man and just soul to soul.
00:30:48And I'm so sorry for, for this.
00:30:51So he doesn't speak.
00:30:52Do you, do you think that he understands?
00:30:54Has there been a, I mean, I'm sure he's been tested.
00:30:56I mean, has his IQ been tested or, or what are your thoughts about his functionality?
00:31:02We haven't done an IQ test.
00:31:04It is difficult to understand.
00:31:06I think it's, it's difficult for me to decipher exactly how much he understands based upon his
00:31:12attention span.
00:31:13And, you know, look, just because he's autistic doesn't mean he's also not a kid, you know,
00:31:18and kids can be, they don't listen sometimes.
00:31:21They do things, you know, indirect consultation of what you've told them to do.
00:31:25And, but it's hard to parse it.
00:31:27One thing that we have found as a therapy that's worked miraculously so far is this thing
00:31:32called spelling.
00:31:33And it sort of shocked us like two years ago, someone advised us to go into it and he'd
00:31:41never, you know, he'd never really spoken a word.
00:31:44And we read them this book and we had this big map that had the alphabet on it.
00:31:48We asked him questions and he would just go ahead and spell out the answers.
00:31:52I'd never seen him write a word or anything else like that, but he would, the very first
00:31:56word he ever spelt at four years old was fire truck when we asked him, you know, what
00:31:59this is on a page.
00:32:00So that was sort of surprising.
00:32:03So I know he's in there and he's, I think he's really intelligent, but it's the day to
00:32:11day stuff that is, it's complicated.
00:32:13And he, he also doesn't like doing it at all.
00:32:16You know, he's a kid.
00:32:16He doesn't want to sit there and spell words on a, on a board.
00:32:20Well, how do you normally communicate with him?
00:32:23One thing we do a lot is I, I sort of talk at him and I don't mean that in the, in the,
00:32:29in the sort of pejorative, but I, I kind of will go up for walks and I, I sort of explain
00:32:35what my mindset is and, and whatever's on my mind, just a topic or something I think
00:32:39I want for his future or, you know, these sorts of things.
00:32:43And, uh, you know, it usually starts off a little clunky where I ask a question, you
00:32:47know, how was your day?
00:32:48And I realized, well, he's not going to respond.
00:32:50He, he really enjoys roughhousing.
00:32:54So we, we spend a good 30, 30 minutes a day.
00:32:57Usually like he likes to jump on the trampoline and then we do wrestling.
00:33:01He likes to be tickled and we have a big crash bat and I'll throw him off the bed into it
00:33:05and that sort of thing.
00:33:07He likes to be active.
00:33:08So.
00:33:09And you said to the other kids.
00:33:12So how many kids do you have?
00:33:14So I have two children, the six-year-old and a four-year-old and the four-year-old, he
00:33:19for all intents, as far as I can tell is, is not, you know, anywhere on the spectrum.
00:33:24He seems like a fairly normal kid and, oh, that's, you know, nice.
00:33:31And how is, it's a son, right?
00:33:33How is, how is your four-year-old's relationship with your six-year-old?
00:33:37Really good.
00:33:38It's a unique, you know, like he knows, he doesn't really talk about it a whole lot.
00:33:43You know, I think to him, it's, maybe it's normal.
00:33:46I don't know exactly, but he will talk to him all the time and, you know, they get in
00:33:51little spats sometimes and pretty normal, but he really enjoys being around him and wrestling.
00:33:57Sorry, do they play together or?
00:33:59Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:34:00Yeah, they'll chase each other around the house.
00:34:02It's usually, it's usually instigated by, by my youngest son.
00:34:06He'll, you know, he'll, he'll tag him and try to get him to chase him around.
00:34:10And, and oftentimes my oldest doesn't really want to do it, but he just keeps kind of laughing
00:34:15and needling him.
00:34:16And then eventually they'll both start laughing and at playing.
00:34:18And so that's nice.
00:34:19But they couldn't do anything like board games or anything like that, right?
00:34:22No, no, not, not currently.
00:34:24No.
00:34:25And do you know what the, again, it's always impossible to tell, I suppose, but what is
00:34:29the prognosis for your six-year-old?
00:34:31Well, you know, there, it depends on who you ask and who you talk to.
00:34:37There's a, there's a sort of a, a cabal of, of maybe that's a bit harsh of this approved
00:34:44therapy called ABA and, and, and their approach to things is, you know, yeah, yeah, you probably
00:34:50will never talk, but you know, what we need to teach him is how to be, is how to act and
00:34:54be around people in society.
00:34:55And so they work on very functional, practical things.
00:35:00And so, sorry, like what would they work on with your son?
00:35:03You know, not like basically not yelling at the top of your lungs, you know, yeah, part
00:35:06of, part of the problem too, is that he lacks some, some control over his nervous system and
00:35:11sort of his actions.
00:35:12So sometimes he'll just sort of make a loud noise very abruptly and it's kind of, you know,
00:35:17it's upsetting to other people.
00:35:18So they try and find ways to get that down as well as try and teach kids to sit for a
00:35:25long period of time instead of actively like just jumping up and down or moving about.
00:35:31And they're, they're very practical things, which I think are beneficial, but they don't
00:35:36seem to work very hard on.
00:35:37I know you're at, you're acting about, you asked about the prognosis.
00:35:40The prognosis is that they just say that he is L, what's called L3 autistic and that he
00:35:46can't speak, but they've, they've given me nothing else since then about whether he's
00:35:51there or not.
00:35:51So, and is he in school or is he home all the time or how does that work?
00:35:56So he goes to a school currently, which is designed for autistic kids that are, that are
00:36:02on the, they're less, you know, there's high functioning autism, but that's not what he
00:36:06has.
00:36:07So he goes to a school that's built on this, this therapy system.
00:36:11And it's, and you know, it's unfortunately, it's very expensive, but I'm very good.
00:36:16So it's not all day and it's not every day.
00:36:19And that, that was part of the, part of something that my wife and I had talked about.
00:36:23We didn't want to do, we didn't want to hand our son over to, you know, eight hours a day
00:36:28in school, like in everybody else.
00:36:29But we also needed help and, and I'll be honest, it can be draining to just be doing therapy
00:36:36all day.
00:36:37So, you know, and you have to work too.
00:36:39So he, he goes for about nine to one and for two weeks at a time and then a week off.
00:36:46And then we spend the rest of that time at home trying to learn and just be together as
00:36:52a family.
00:36:53And how, how is his sleep?
00:36:55Terrible.
00:36:57Every, every once in a while he'll sleep through the night.
00:36:59But I would say four, four nights, five nights out of the week, out of the week, he wakes
00:37:05up at about two and he's restless and he's upset.
00:37:08And then he'll wake up at about four.
00:37:10And so we, my wife and I will try and take shifts and go and sit with him for about a half
00:37:15an hour and try to get him to calm down.
00:37:18And sometimes he's, he's weeping and you don't know why.
00:37:21And other times he's just laughing maniacally and doing cartwheels.
00:37:25And you're like, okay, all right.
00:37:26So, but yeah, that's a bit of a struggle.
00:37:29And I mean, it seems unlikely that he would get married, have kids, have a job.
00:37:35Yeah.
00:37:35That is, you know, something that is, we, you know, we try to talk about it.
00:37:42My wife does not like to, you know, I think it hurts her.
00:37:47Sorry.
00:37:47Again, if you need to pull over, I would suggest if you're feeling strongly to not, not drive.
00:37:54No, I appreciate it.
00:37:55I'm all right.
00:37:57Yeah.
00:37:57It's, uh, I don't know.
00:37:59There's hope, but I don't know.
00:38:01It's possible.
00:38:02It never does.
00:38:03Yeah.
00:38:03I mean, sorry.
00:38:04No, go ahead.
00:38:06Well, you know, the, it's funny listening to the last guy talking about living in the now
00:38:10and there is, you know, obviously like, yeah, you got to be where your feet are sometimes
00:38:15and just enjoy things that are happening.
00:38:16But there is a part of me that goes, man, this kid might be living with me until I die.
00:38:23I can't, I can't wreck my body.
00:38:25You know, I can't make poor decisions.
00:38:26I can't, there's certain jobs I can't take.
00:38:29You know, I've, there's certain things I can't do because he's going to need me, you know?
00:38:35Uh, so I don't know.
00:38:38He may, he may, he may live with me the rest of his life.
00:38:40I don't know.
00:38:41I, uh, I'm not sure about that, bro.
00:38:44So, I mean, what about when he has puberty and he's bigger than you and your wife?
00:38:49Yeah.
00:38:49Yeah.
00:38:50I mean, we've, we've certainly, we've run into other families when they're, when they're
00:38:54older and, you know, it's some, it's a little difficult.
00:38:59Sometimes they just, you know, run away.
00:39:01Well, no, I mean, because you can, you can restrain him if need be at the moment, but you
00:39:05can do that when he's 14 or 15 or 13, depending on how quickly he grows.
00:39:09That's true.
00:39:10Yeah.
00:39:10And he's pretty tall for his age as well.
00:39:13I mean, that.
00:39:14You know, he, as he's gotten older, he's been, you know, we've worked a lot on trying
00:39:20to contain it, trying not to be as, as, as wild in some of these ways.
00:39:24And he's gotten better at that.
00:39:26But yeah, I don't know.
00:39:28I don't know what the future holds as far as that goes.
00:39:30And what proportion of your parenting is directed at your six year old versus your four year
00:39:34old?
00:39:35I, you know, believe it or not, I think we've done, tried to do a pretty good job of keeping
00:39:41it even.
00:39:42And that's always been on the forefront of our minds is, you know, we don't want our
00:39:48youngest son.
00:39:49I feel like he doesn't get enough attention because he doesn't have his pressing concerns.
00:39:55Like his concerns are just as valid and as valuable as his needs are as my eldest son.
00:40:00And so we, we, we, that's part of it.
00:40:04I think the issue we had, we spent a lot of time doing things together like, hey, today
00:40:08is going to be your day, you know, and we'll go do things that he enjoys and then back and
00:40:13forth.
00:40:13So I think it's one thing we've done reasonably well.
00:40:17And he's happy.
00:40:19Good kid.
00:40:20And your eldest son with his physical impulsivity, he doesn't pose any particular danger.
00:40:25Is that right?
00:40:26At least yet?
00:40:26No, not, not currently at the moment.
00:40:29You know, when he was much younger, he had a, he had a tendency to get very frustrated
00:40:34because I think he wanted to be understood.
00:40:36And, you know, and so he would sort of pimp or bite.
00:40:41And so we had to work very hard to, to get that under control.
00:40:45And every once in a while, you know, he'll get very, very frustrated.
00:40:48He'll get sort of whipped up and he'll try and, you know, pinch me or something like that.
00:40:52And then we'd have to sit down and calm down and talk about it and just be like, hey man,
00:40:56you know, I know it's, I know it's complicated.
00:40:58I know it hurts to not be able to say what you're feeling, but you can't do this.
00:41:02And particularly because, you know, you won't be able to go out in the world if you can't
00:41:07control yourself.
00:41:08So you don't know if he understands you, right?
00:41:11I have to, part of me thinks I have to believe that he can.
00:41:15Right.
00:41:15And I'm not trying to unravel your certainty here, but I'm just trying to sort of map in
00:41:19my mind, this sort of family structure or situation.
00:41:23Yeah.
00:41:23I don't, I don't know for certain.
00:41:24I believe he does, but I, you know, it's a belief.
00:41:27Okay.
00:41:27Got it.
00:41:28Got it.
00:41:28Okay.
00:41:28Well, I mean, it, it's, it's very tough.
00:41:33It's very tough.
00:41:34And look, I know you love your son and I'm sure that there are positive things about him,
00:41:39but this isn't what you want for your son.
00:41:41Obviously you want to see your son grow and take his place in the world and go out and
00:41:45conquer whatever he's going to conquer.
00:41:47And that doesn't appear massively likely again, based upon what you're saying.
00:41:51So I mean, how, how you and your wife, I mean, there's a lot of work and stress and
00:41:57strain and focus and concentration.
00:41:59I mean, have you gone through sort of the grieving of what you expected versus what
00:42:03you had?
00:42:04Yeah.
00:42:05You know, I'll be honest that the, the, the, the, even if you wanted to get as simple
00:42:10as the five stages, whatever it doesn't, you know, we've been through that cycle.
00:42:14It feels like, you know, several, a dozen times it, and partly because there's moments
00:42:21where I'll be a, you know, I'll be at peace with it.
00:42:24And then there's weeks later, I'll, I'll be angry all over again about like what caused
00:42:29it, or I want to point a finger at somebody, you know, or I want a solution or I don't
00:42:34know.
00:42:35So it seems like it constantly, I constantly go through that process as opposed to being
00:42:40in stasis about where I am at the moment.
00:42:44Yeah.
00:42:44Because most things in life, you know, if there's physical issues, you get better or you
00:42:49die, right?
00:42:50And not like continual hope and crossing your fingers and not knowing and, and all
00:42:56of that.
00:42:56So that's, that's a very, it's a very unusual situation for us psychologically.
00:43:01And, you know, again, my, my heart goes out for you.
00:43:04So what's going on with you and your wife?
00:43:06You said that there's a certain amount of roommate aspect.
00:43:09Yeah.
00:43:10You know, I, it's, I know in my head that our relationship needs to be a lot stronger and
00:43:18that it, and that it ultimately, I believe my relationship with my wife needs to be kind
00:43:23of forefront because if we're not tight and we're not together, then we really can't help
00:43:27each other when we can't help the kids.
00:43:29But, you know, they demand so much attention, particularly in this instance that I think
00:43:34finds often that it's, I'm exhausted or we're both are, you know, we'll sit down and try
00:43:38to spend time together.
00:43:40And it's like, you know, we're run out, like we don't have anything left for each other.
00:43:44And, and I, you know, I'll, I'll be honest, I'm not great to about, I can be prone to
00:43:50being a bit glib and getting annoyed.
00:43:54And also it's, instead of...
00:43:56Well, you put on, I mean, and I, I say this with all due respect, right?
00:43:59But you put on a pretty brave face about this pretty heartbreaking situation.
00:44:03Oh, I think that's me trying to...
00:44:07That's not a criticism.
00:44:08That's not a criticism at all.
00:44:10I'm just saying that that's something I noticed.
00:44:11Oh, well, thank you.
00:44:13I, I, I think I just need to be that.
00:44:16Yeah, I get it.
00:44:17I get it.
00:44:17And so, yeah, I, I guess I'm, I'm trying to figure out like a practical way for if I'm
00:44:25balancing things correctly, you know?
00:44:28What do you mean?
00:44:30This important relationship, most important relationship in my life, really, the attention
00:44:36it needs in order to make sure that the center holds.
00:44:41So...
00:44:42Yeah, that's very abstract.
00:44:44Oh, okay.
00:44:45I'm sorry.
00:44:46No, no, this, again, this, I'm just saying that I'm not sure how that's, like, in terms
00:44:49of actionable, practical stuff.
00:44:53Have you guys talked at all about having more kids?
00:44:56Yes.
00:44:57We have, we've talked about it and we've decided that to not.
00:45:00It's partly due to the amount of time and effort that goes into our first child.
00:45:08And then secondly, also that my, you know, we're a bit upper in age, we're, we're about
00:45:1240.
00:45:13And, and my wife, the last pregnancy was really complicated and she almost died during it.
00:45:18So I, I don't know, a series of those two things we thought maybe would not be smart
00:45:24to try and, again.
00:45:25How long have you and your wife been together?
00:45:27Uh, we've been together, we've been married eight years.
00:45:31We've been together 10.
00:45:32Why did it take you so long to try to have kids or relatively long?
00:45:36It took us, well, I think, well, we were, we started dating and we were dated for two
00:45:41years and then we were married for...
00:45:42Yeah, but 30 to 32, right?
00:45:45Yes.
00:45:45Yeah.
00:45:46That's a long ass time to be, be describing someone.
00:45:50It is.
00:45:50And we, I, I, I, it was my fault.
00:45:53I should have led better.
00:45:54I, I knew that I wanted children, but I was enjoying the, being married and, and so
00:46:02we were on, or my wife was on birth control and we got pregnant regardless.
00:46:07And, and then after that, I started doing her soul searching and, and, and reading about
00:46:12it.
00:46:12And I was like, you know what, this is, I don't think you should be on it at all.
00:46:17Yeah.
00:46:17On the birth control when she was pregnant.
00:46:19Yes.
00:46:19Well, I, I think, I think that's a little bit like luck in the pond or off the horses
00:46:23left, isn't it?
00:46:25Yeah.
00:46:25Yeah.
00:46:26No, I mean, I mean, we just, to not be on it again.
00:46:29Oh, to not be on it again.
00:46:29Okay.
00:46:30Okay.
00:46:30Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:46:31I, I mean, the, yeah.
00:46:33Hey, maybe don't take it anymore.
00:46:34Okay.
00:46:35So, so the ship has largely sailed as far as having more, more kids go, right?
00:46:39Yeah.
00:46:40I think so.
00:46:40Yeah.
00:46:40And how, again, these are hard questions to ask and maybe impossible to answer.
00:46:46I don't know, but how close or connected or essential is your relationship with your
00:46:53son?
00:46:54In other words, when he's at school, is he like foaming at the mouth where are my parents
00:46:59or is, is he more self-sufficient that way?
00:47:03No, no, he's, he's not, he's not having a lot of issues like that at school.
00:47:07He, I think he, the reports that we talked to the teachers cause he only has, you know,
00:47:13he's like a, there's like three kids in his class, you know, it's, it's, it's pretty
00:47:17hands-on and, you know, and the reports are generally, you know, we had go through our
00:47:22exercises and everything else and here's, here's what he struggled with today or here's
00:47:25what he did.
00:47:26No, but emotionally he's fine being away.
00:47:27Is that right?
00:47:28Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:47:29I mean, yeah, he's not like, you know, weeping or, you know.
00:47:31So why don't you, well, why don't you put him into school longer?
00:47:34And again, I'm asking these questions, not because I have any opinion, like what the
00:47:37hell do I know, right?
00:47:38So, but I'm just, I'm just curious.
00:47:41You said he's there from like nine to one, why not a full day of school?
00:47:45Well, we, we, we, we wanted to start off with just seeing how he would handle it and, and
00:47:51how it, how it would function.
00:47:53And then when we were ready to, they thought, well, maybe we'll give him a few more hours
00:47:57and to be around other people and to be around other, you know, kids and teachers and such.
00:48:01And there was an issue with insurance that they need to be worked out where they didn't
00:48:05want to cover some of the therapies past a certain set of hours per, per week.
00:48:10And they're very expensive.
00:48:11And we just unfortunately couldn't afford it out of pocket.
00:48:14So we just got cleared.
00:48:15And so I think moving forward, we'll be doing probably more like, you know, five, five hours
00:48:20a day.
00:48:21Yeah.
00:48:21Because I mean, as far as you and your wife goes, you just need time together.
00:48:25That's not around managing this, this challenging issue.
00:48:29And do you have a family around or there are other people that you can leave your son or
00:48:35sons with?
00:48:36Yeah.
00:48:36Yeah.
00:48:37I mean, and that's been a real, a real blessing.
00:48:39My in-laws live about an hour and a half away and they're retired and they're great people.
00:48:44And so they come over, my, my mother-in-law in particular will come over once every other
00:48:49week and help out during the daytime and just be around the kids.
00:48:54And so that's been, yeah, I mean, other than trying to get more one-on-one time with your
00:49:02wife, the only other thing that I would suggest, and this is just from a sort of raw, naked soul
00:49:06honesty thing, is that the brave face stuff, I completely understand it.
00:49:12And I also understand that it feels like the right thing to do, but this is kind of a tragedy
00:49:19in many ways, right?
00:49:21I mean, if you could snap your fingers and have this not be the case, you would do it
00:49:24in a heartbeat, right?
00:49:25Yeah.
00:49:26And, you know, when, especially when you said like, my wife doesn't want to talk about it,
00:49:30like what the future holds and so on.
00:49:31But I think there's a lot of sadness here and that doesn't mean that your life is forever
00:49:36going to be sad or anything like that.
00:49:37But the more that we deny a sort of genuine, honest, deep feelings, the harder it is for
00:49:41us to connect with other people.
00:49:43And I don't know that you can truly connect with your wife without you both opening up about
00:49:47some of the pain and sorrow that the situation is causing.
00:49:52Yeah, you're probably right.
00:49:54So, yeah, I would say, yeah, I mean, we all have the brave face, right?
00:49:59We all have the brave face.
00:50:02And sometimes imitating courage leads to courage.
00:50:05So, the brave face is not a bad thing innately, but it does tend to, if it's too much of a
00:50:12mask and it's too hard to let go of and it's not possible to talk about the vulnerabilities
00:50:18and the sorrows and the pain that's underneath the mask, then you can end up in a very sort
00:50:23of functional relationship of, you know, wiping asses and taking care of things and bills
00:50:28and dishes and work and then the sexiness and the romance and the lust and all of that
00:50:33sort of drains out of the marriage.
00:50:36And that would be a real tragedy, of course, because given, you know, it's you and your
00:50:42wife, right?
00:50:42Because I'm not saying that you ever would, but if you ever did split up, it's not like
00:50:47you'd be, you know, hot to trot in the dating market with this kind of issue floating around,
00:50:52right?
00:50:52No, no, no, no.
00:50:54I don't even think if I did have a child, I'd be very hot to trot in the dating market.
00:50:57But yeah, I see what you're saying though.
00:51:02And I think you're, I think you're right.
00:51:03And I, sometimes it feels like the obvious thing is in front of you.
00:51:07You don't see it, but I think the two of us need to cross that bridge and, and, and go
00:51:13into that territory that's uncomfortable and wrestle with it in order to get a little bit
00:51:18closer to each other.
00:51:19Are you, are you Christians?
00:51:21Yeah.
00:51:22So thou shalt not bail for thou shalt not, I should be able to pronounce this.
00:51:26It's really not that hard.
00:51:27Thou shalt not bear false witness is my favorite.
00:51:30Not that that means anything, because it's not like you're supposed to pick them like
00:51:33ice cream, but it is my favorite of the commandments because I think it solves so many of the other
00:51:39commandments.
00:51:40Thou shalt not bear false witness, which means what's going on in your heart in matters of
00:51:45great import should be unpacked and spoken openly to each other.
00:51:49And the brave face will alienate you if it's kept on too long and too strong.
00:51:56So I think talk about some of the sadness and sorrow, and I think that will also then
00:52:00be better for your son because your, your eldest son, I assume needs to see, you know,
00:52:05the absolute most genuine human interactions and contacts that he has.
00:52:08And if everyone's got the brave face on, it may not help him connect with and regulate
00:52:13his own emotions better, if that makes sense.
00:52:16Yeah, that's a good point.
00:52:18All right.
00:52:18Well, listen, man, you go forward with, with my very best wishes and my, my sympathies.
00:52:23And, uh, I hope you'll stay in touch and let us know how it's going.
00:52:26All right.
00:52:27Thank you, Stefan.
00:52:27Thanks, man.
00:52:28Drive safe.
00:52:29All right.
00:52:31Richard Wright.
00:52:33God, I wish I had that name as a philosopher, man.
00:52:36Dick Wright.
00:52:38It just sounds like porn philosopher, super woody excellence name.
00:52:43You're on the air, my friends.
00:52:45What's in your mind?
00:52:46Hey, Steph.
00:52:47You hear me?
00:52:48Okay.
00:52:49Yeah.
00:52:50Okay.
00:52:51In your book against the gods, you argue that it is harmful to a child's mental health
00:52:57to be indoctrinated into a religion that is based on contradictions and cannot be questioned
00:53:02freely.
00:53:03What do you think is more damaging to children?
00:53:06The generalized Western Christian indoctrination or being raised without a consistent source
00:53:11of morality as demonstrated by 90% of atheists and the love of the state?
00:53:16I mean, it's hard to say because there are so many variables at play, right?
00:53:21So for instance, if, and I know that this is not obviously all or the majority of Christian
00:53:25parents, but if the Christian parents are like, you know, demons are real, and if you
00:53:31look at a Harry Potter book, you're opening up a portal to hell under your bed, like the
00:53:35real extremist stuff or the stuff where the end times, you know, like the Taken series,
00:53:44you know, where the rapture is imminent and we're all going to heaven and there's no point
00:53:48making any plans because Jesus is about to return and the world is about to end and so
00:53:52on.
00:53:52So I think, I mean, and tell me if, if you agree with me, I think that those kinds of
00:53:58beliefs or those kinds of messages to children would be, I mean, very harmful.
00:54:04Can we agree on that or do you not?
00:54:06I mean, you're certainly welcome to not agree.
00:54:08I'm just curious if you do.
00:54:09No, I, I totally agree.
00:54:11I'm an atheist.
00:54:12Okay.
00:54:13So if, if it's like, you know, Jesus loves you and you should do good things because of
00:54:18this and here's us going to a soup kitchen and we, you know, we, we get along with our
00:54:22neighbors and we help out the poor and we visit the elderly and the sick.
00:54:25I mean, that's hard for me to see that as abusive.
00:54:29If of course the child has skeptical questions and they're not allowed to be asked, I think
00:54:35that's harmful.
00:54:35Well, so of course, if we compare the best kind of Christian upper upbringing with the
00:54:41worst kind of atheist upbringing, you know, we are emo nihilists and there's no, no meaning,
00:54:47no virtue, no value.
00:54:48No, you know, we're just machines and, and like soulless or whatever.
00:54:52Right.
00:54:52So if you compare the best Christian upbringing with the worst atheist upbringing, then it's
00:54:58easy to make that decision.
00:54:59If you compare the best atheist upbringing with the worst Christian upbringing, it's easy
00:55:04to make that decision.
00:55:05So unfortunately there are just so many variables.
00:55:08If I had to choose, and if you sort of put the metaphorical water pistol to my head, if
00:55:13I had to choose, I would choose Christianity over mechanistic, materialistic nihilism.
00:55:22Because if you believe in sort of meaning and virtue and the powerful and deep nature of
00:55:30human consciousness as embodied in the concept of the soul, I think that does a lot more good
00:55:35for you than just looking at yourself as a collection of atoms and void and sort of
00:55:40Nietzschean willpower machinery with, with no meaning and no virtue, no content.
00:55:45So if I had to choose between the two, all other things being equal, I think that Christianity
00:55:50edges out the atheism.
00:55:52What do you think?
00:55:52I totally agree.
00:55:55I'm just kind of feeling like I was in that edgy, non-virtuous atheism for so long, and
00:56:04I'm kind of worried about what steps I should take to improve.
00:56:10Well, tell me a little bit about your history with atheism, how were you raised that way,
00:56:14and how was that for you as a child growing up?
00:56:16Yeah, I was raised Christian, but probably around when I was 12, middle school age, my parents
00:56:26stopped basically completely, maybe once a year or something on Christmas.
00:56:31And then I fell into a really dark hole on YouTube with all these atheists, really sick people.
00:56:39What do you mean?
00:56:40There are just all these YouTubers that were really militant atheists and would fight people.
00:56:46The one that comes to mind is The Amazing Atheist, and he's kind of like everything you've been
00:56:54talking about the past couple weeks.
00:56:57Yeah, I think I remember seeing some of his videos way back in the day.
00:57:01Is it Matt Dillahunty?
00:57:02I know he's not the same guy, but is he in that environment as well?
00:57:06Pretty much the only one I watched was The Amazing Atheist, and he was very demonic in his
00:57:11messaging, and I think it contributed a lot to some bad aspects of my childhood.
00:57:19Tell me a little bit more about, you started watching him when you were sort of, did you
00:57:24say seven or eight that your parents gave up?
00:57:26Oh, no, like 12.
00:57:2912, sorry.
00:57:30Okay, that was the year.
00:57:33Okay, so yeah, tell me a little bit more about what you got from The Amazing Atheist and how
00:57:38that affected you.
00:57:39Yeah, it was just a very judgmental psychology or philosophy, I guess, where he would call
00:57:47all religious people stupid and a lot of judgment, antisocial behavior, stuff like that.
00:57:54And I feel like I went from a very happy kind of outgoing kid to someone who was more, you
00:58:02know, not so outgoing, not so nice.
00:58:05Right, and what were the sort of main messages you got out of the edgy atheists?
00:58:13Just nihilism, just nihilism and hedonism, do whatever you want, everyone else is stupid,
00:58:19they can't control you, don't listen to them, it's really bad stuff.
00:58:23This isn't the guy who had a banana up his butt, is it?
00:58:25It is said that you got, so, okay, I think I remember this now, what, what was the story
00:58:34behind that?
00:58:35I'm not, it happened when I was a kid, but.
00:58:40Oh, good, well, I'm glad you, hopefully you didn't.
00:58:41I tried not to look into that, and I don't really remember it too well, but he was just
00:58:46kind of a mean, degenerate person, generally.
00:58:51Okay, okay.
00:58:53And do you have any idea why, well, he's a bisexual.
00:58:59Okay, all right.
00:59:00So, do you know why your parents dropped religion?
00:59:05They just, I think they did it, I don't think they really believed in it, I think they did
00:59:09it for me to raise, and then when I was in teenage years, they got tired of it and dropped it.
00:59:16Well, but did they talk to you about it?
00:59:18No, that's a big problem with my childhood.
00:59:20My parents didn't talk to me about much, just watching TV or leaving me to the computer.
00:59:27Hmm.
00:59:28Okay, I'm just looking here.
00:59:31Yeah, so, in October of 2011, a video of Kirk, this is the amazing atheist, engaging in a
00:59:38sex act with a banana, was leaked on the internet.
00:59:41Right.
00:59:42So, that's not great.
00:59:43In 2012, he was widely criticized for incendiary comments he made on Reddit before he deleted
00:59:48his account.
00:59:50In an argument about trigger warnings, Kirk repeatedly stated that one of the participants,
00:59:55a self-described rape victim, should be raped again.
00:59:58Ooh.
00:59:59Yeah.
01:00:00He apologized for that.
01:00:02So, okay.
01:00:04He said he meant to be satirical.
01:00:07Okay, listen, the last thing I'm going to do is go and repeat everything that's said
01:00:12about some public figure, because Lord knows I've had my own run-ins that way, too.
01:00:16So, okay.
01:00:18All right.
01:00:19Were you, it sounds like you were fairly isolated, if not neglected, as a child, if your parents
01:00:24didn't track what you were doing on the internet, talk to you about it, and help moderate what
01:00:29was going on.
01:00:30Yeah, that's correct.
01:00:31So, how much time, like, in any given week, would you say that your parents had enjoyable
01:00:38conversations or doing things together?
01:00:41On weekends, we would do things.
01:00:43So, like, during the week, I had a nanny and everything.
01:00:46So, during the week, it was basically zero.
01:00:48And then on weekends, we'd do some trip or go to lunch or something, which was pretty
01:00:53enjoyable.
01:00:54But there was never really any advice or, like, discussion into deep topics or morals
01:01:01or anything.
01:01:02They kind of did not like talking about heavy topics at all.
01:01:07They were kind of...
01:01:08Well, no, no, that's not heavy topics.
01:01:10That's like parenting.
01:01:11You've got to teach your kids about morals and life in the world.
01:01:16I mean, let me ask you this.
01:01:17And for those of you who are new to sort of what it is that I do, I've asked this question
01:01:21of a number of, well, a large number of people over the years.
01:01:24So, it's your turn.
01:01:26What moral lessons or important life lessons did your parents teach you as a child that
01:01:34you still find of value today?
01:01:35My mom taught me the value of hard work, which I'm very appreciative of.
01:01:40She, like, when I was in high school, she got me a job at her college as, like, a grounds
01:01:47keeper and forced me to, even though I was really annoyed and in pain about it, I woke
01:01:53up 6 a.m. every day and worked, picking up trash bags and everything.
01:01:58And she taught me, like, not to quit jobs and work hard.
01:02:02Well, I mean, listen, that's a fine practical skill.
01:02:05I'm really talking about sort of the moral, you know, virtue and how to judge people in
01:02:11a rational context and stay safe from the predators of the world and that kind of stuff.
01:02:15Yeah, nothing like that.
01:02:17Zero.
01:02:19Okay.
01:02:19So, if your mother valued hard work, how much work did she put into being a good parent?
01:02:28I'd probably say 10% of her ability as an educator.
01:02:32Did she read books?
01:02:33Did she, you know, take any courses or, you know, because people, people, it's funny.
01:02:39They say, like, parenting, parents, kids don't come with an instruction manual.
01:02:42It's like, they absolutely do.
01:02:44They absolutely do.
01:02:45There are tons of parenting books and all of that.
01:02:48And I don't think that there would be many parenting books that would say, don't talk
01:02:51to your children about any important issues, right?
01:02:55Yeah.
01:02:55That's the thing.
01:02:56They had parenting books in the house.
01:02:59And I saw them there when I was like a very little kid, probably like four.
01:03:04They had all these books on a shelf and they never touched them.
01:03:08They didn't look like they were read.
01:03:10It looks like they bought it and didn't do anything with it.
01:03:12Now, when you were a kid, if you didn't study for a test and you did badly, would your parents
01:03:18be upset?
01:03:19No.
01:03:21Oh, they didn't even care about that?
01:03:22Yeah.
01:03:22That's another thing I got pretty upset about as an adult.
01:03:26Because I was always a bright kid.
01:03:28I got pretty good grades, but because I didn't try, it kind of lowered my grades.
01:03:35I still did pretty well, but I didn't get a 4.0 or be able to eat effectively in the upper
01:03:43tiers of what I'm trying to do now.
01:03:44So, and did your mother, she worked, that's why you had a nanny, right?
01:03:50Yeah.
01:03:52And what field did she work in?
01:03:55So, both of my parents were lawyers, but they didn't practice law.
01:04:00So, like my mom worked at a university and my dad was a lobbyist in the government.
01:04:07For the government, I guess.
01:04:09Okay.
01:04:09Got it.
01:04:11Yeah, they were very busy.
01:04:13Okay.
01:04:14So, I mean, you said you didn't spend much time with your parents during the week.
01:04:18So, what did your day look like with your parents and the nanny?
01:04:22Yeah, just on the computer, basically.
01:04:25Well, no, doesn't the nanny do some parenting-ish stuff?
01:04:29Yeah, she taught me.
01:04:31Like, a lot of the moral lessons I got were from her.
01:04:34I would talk to her about things.
01:04:35But the socialization wasn't very good.
01:04:39She had sons that I was very close with, but when they went to college, I was still around
01:04:45that same middle school age.
01:04:48So, once the sons left, I was just kind of there.
01:04:53Oh, sorry, her sons?
01:04:54Yeah, the nanny.
01:04:55What would her sons have to do with her being your nanny?
01:04:58Sorry if I missed something.
01:04:59I was at her house so much that they were like brothers to me.
01:05:03Oh, so the nanny wasn't at your house?
01:05:05No, I was at her house.
01:05:07Yeah.
01:05:08Okay, so after school, you'd go to the nanny's house and you'd stay until when?
01:05:12Like 7 p.m., 8 p.m.
01:05:147?
01:05:15Okay.
01:05:15So, you'd go to school 7.30 in the morning or whatever it is, and then you wouldn't see
01:05:20your parents for like 12 hours?
01:05:21Yeah.
01:05:22And then you'd come home, I guess your parents, would you eat at the nanny's house or at
01:05:26your parents' house?
01:05:27At the nanny's house.
01:05:28Okay, so you'd come home, what would your sort of typical evening be when you were home
01:05:34at 7 with your parents?
01:05:35I'd just watch.
01:05:36My dad would be in a separate room because he didn't really like my mom, and then me
01:05:41and my mom would watch TV until bedtime.
01:05:45Oh, God.
01:05:46But what about board games, conversations, play?
01:05:51No.
01:05:52Nothing like that?
01:05:53No, nothing like that.
01:05:55Okay.
01:05:56And are you in your 20s now?
01:05:59Yeah.
01:06:00Okay.
01:06:01So, let me ask you this.
01:06:03What do you think, or what do you think has happened in your brain if your parents didn't
01:06:08show, and listen, I don't want to put words in your mouth, so if this is incorrect, obviously
01:06:12please tell me.
01:06:13Is it fair to say that your parents didn't show a huge amount of interest in you as an
01:06:17individual?
01:06:18Yeah, that's correct.
01:06:19Okay.
01:06:20So, if your parents didn't show much interest in you, what do you think that translated
01:06:27to in your mind?
01:06:30Because we usually have to have an answer for these things as kids, right?
01:06:34Yeah.
01:06:35For me specifically, I feel like it made me not care about accomplishments.
01:06:40Like I said, I was...
01:06:42Okay, hang on.
01:06:43So, that's outward directed, though.
01:06:45What do you think it meant about you as a kid?
01:06:49Do you have any siblings?
01:06:50No, only child.
01:06:52Oh, gosh.
01:06:52Okay.
01:06:53So, only child with inattentive parents.
01:06:54All right.
01:06:55So, how did that translate for you in terms of how you...
01:06:59Did you feel valuable or not?
01:07:01Or, like, what do you think it meant about you and the value you could bring to the world
01:07:05if your parents seemed largely indifferent to you?
01:07:09Yeah.
01:07:10It was...
01:07:11There was a very low self-value about what I could bring.
01:07:16Because it is kind of hard to feel like we're a value if our parents don't delight in our
01:07:21presence, in our company.
01:07:23If they're not looking forward to seeing us, they're overjoyed to see us, they give a big
01:07:27hug, how was your day, and let's do something, and I missed you, and like all of the stuff
01:07:31that has kids feel valuable because it's really, really hard to feel more valuable than
01:07:38our parents indicate, if that makes sense.
01:07:42Yeah.
01:07:43And how has that translated into your dating life?
01:07:47I'm married now, thankfully.
01:07:49Oh, well, congratulations.
01:07:51In the beginning, it was very bad.
01:07:53I dated multiple girls who were severely mentally ill, but I figured I stopped that, and I started...
01:08:03And I married a very good woman who's in medical school now.
01:08:08And how...
01:08:09So she can be a doctor, right?
01:08:11So that might...
01:08:12I mean, hopefully you're not going to need a nanny for your kids if she's a doctor, right?
01:08:15Because the doctor's going to be pretty busy, right?
01:08:17Mm-hmm.
01:08:18But how do you think you turned it around?
01:08:20I mean, it's a good...
01:08:20It's a great story to hear, and congratulations.
01:08:22And how did you do it?
01:08:24Yeah.
01:08:25I just worked very hard in college, and especially the...
01:08:30I don't know.
01:08:30I mean, with you, not your professional, but you went from dating crazy girls to your wife,
01:08:37who's not crazy, you say, and obviously I'm going to believe that.
01:08:40How did you turn that around?
01:08:42I honestly think that was just a bad experience with the last crazy girl.
01:08:47I decided to look for the exact opposite of what she was.
01:08:52I wanted a hyper-competent, like, moral person.
01:08:56How did you, from the amazing atheist to rejecting religion, how did you determine what a moral woman was,
01:09:06or what morality was?
01:09:07I'm not saying you didn't, I'm just curious how you did.
01:09:10Yeah.
01:09:11It was honestly just the opposite of the last girl.
01:09:15I was more filtering for education than morality, to be honest, but I just got left.
01:09:21Okay, okay.
01:09:23And do you feel, and obviously I can't see you face-to-face, but I've had a lot of practice sort of reading people's voice over the last 20 years.
01:09:32Because it sounds to me like you're still carrying a burden of sadness, or loss, or neglect, or rejection, or something like that.
01:09:38Obviously, I could be wrong, but, you know, the way that you speak is a little heavy, and a little down, a little weighted, and you're not very animated, if that makes sense.
01:09:46In other contexts, I'm much better.
01:09:50It's just, I know this show, and I know what you would probably pry into, so I got very nervous.
01:09:55Okay, okay.
01:09:56Well, that's fine, then.
01:09:58Well, yeah, so all other things being equal, it is better to teach people virtue, even if it's based on non-empirical foundations, than it is to teach them nihilism, or to ignore them.
01:10:10In my view, right, you know my four categories of child abuse, worst to least worst is sexual abuse, neglect, emotional abuse, physical abuse.
01:10:19And so neglect is pretty bad, because, and listen, I'm completely thrilled that you've turned it around and are happily married.
01:10:26I think that's absolutely wonderful, and I certainly do appreciate your questions and participation in the show tonight.
01:10:31Yeah, thank you so much.
01:10:32All right, we now turn to a salt lick the size of Utah, salty old man.
01:10:40What is on your mind, my friend?
01:10:43Going once, going twice.
01:10:45Speak now, or forever hold your peace.
01:10:50Yes, no, yes, no.
01:10:52I think we lost him.
01:10:54Tsukasa.
01:10:55Tsukasa, emikasa, mikasa, esukasa.
01:10:57I think we talked before, if I remember rightly, I think I may have growled your name in pseudo-Japanese.
01:11:03What's on your mind?
01:11:05Oh, wow, wow.
01:11:06I just thought, I'm honored to actually talk to you.
01:11:08This is, I'm kind of a little nervous, so, can you hear me first of all?
01:11:12Yeah, go for it.
01:11:13Oh, wow, wow, what a pleasure.
01:11:15You know what, you taught me so much.
01:11:17You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's glad to see that you're on, on X here now.
01:11:22But, but man, I've learned so much from you, you know, in your YouTube videos.
01:11:27It's a shame what they did to you.
01:11:28You know, I think if I remember right, it was like, what, a hate speech they tried to get you for?
01:11:32I think that was it, yeah.
01:11:34Yeah, yeah, yeah, you and Alex Jones, and I was like, wow, this motherfucker right here is just spitting facts.
01:11:39And, anyways, you know what, I didn't think I was actually going to get through to you, but, but, sorry, I'm going to try to talk a little, a little low, because it's actually kind of a sensitive issue.
01:11:49You know, I've always kind of wanted to ask you, like, what my mindset should be on this.
01:11:53And, uh, and also, sorry, if you, I mean, I know I swear from time to time, but if you could, if you could dial back the super foul language, I would usually appreciate it.
01:12:00Thanks.
01:12:00Yeah, no, no, no, I gotcha, I gotcha.
01:12:02I'm just, I'm just that guy, but, but, uh, I'll try to talk a little bit more, uh, I would just say more, more classy.
01:12:08Now, I also know that you can't hear me, but, but I've got a son, I've got to talk down kind of low, but I've got a son who's got, uh, Duchenne's muscular dystrophy, which is, um, very hard to deal with.
01:12:19And, you know, I'm like right next door, I don't, they hear me, so.
01:12:23Sorry, who, I'm sorry to interrupt.
01:12:24Who has muscular dystrophy?
01:12:26My son.
01:12:27Yes, son.
01:12:27Okay, sorry, go ahead.
01:12:28Sorry, like I need to whisper, but go on.
01:12:30And, um, you know, I, I don't know his mindset is, is very, is very, uh, how would you say it?
01:12:36It's down, you know what I mean?
01:12:38And, and I just don't know, you know, how to, uh, kind of change his perspective on life, you know what I mean?
01:12:45And, uh.
01:12:45How old is he?
01:12:46He's 23, yeah.
01:12:48And how long has he suffered from this for?
01:12:50Oh, since the very beginning, you know, since, uh, you know, and it was just a slow degenerate, uh, where he lose all functions of the muscles and basically just move his hands down.
01:12:59That's about it.
01:13:00So, you know, it's, you know, it kind of works that.
01:13:05You know, it's kind of hard to, you know what I mean?
01:13:07I'll just use your imagination.
01:13:08You're a smart guy.
01:13:10Yeah, yeah.
01:13:10Like, you know, wait, wait, tell somebody like that, you know?
01:13:12How, how fast is he degenerating?
01:13:16Well, uh, well, it starts from the very beginning, you know, when you, when you, when you first have a baby, you don't really notice it until maybe a couple of years.
01:13:25And, and so he, you know, pointed it out, like, Hey, he's not done this and that.
01:13:29And like, I didn't even know anything about it.
01:13:31And then sure enough, you know, we're going to go see him.
01:13:33I said, yeah, he's got it.
01:13:34And, you know, it just, uh, it's, it's a slow, but you know, uh, you just lose all muscle, you know, you lose every, all strength, basically.
01:13:43And, you know, so, you know, and the point thing, you know, it's, you know, he works hands and stuff.
01:13:47That's about it.
01:13:48Oh, so it's only affected his hands so far.
01:13:51No, no, no.
01:13:52Everything, everything.
01:13:53Everything.
01:13:54Okay.
01:13:54Okay.
01:13:54Yeah.
01:13:55I'm sorry.
01:13:55It speaks.
01:13:56Actually, no, that's fine.
01:13:57No, but, uh, he's like right there.
01:13:59So it's like, I want to, you know what I'm saying?
01:14:01You know what I'm saying?
01:14:02So.
01:14:03Right.
01:14:03Do you want to maybe talk to him maybe?
01:14:06No, I think that's okay.
01:14:08Cause, uh, let me just sort of get, get the lay of the land.
01:14:11Cause it's a lot to, to sort of process or try and, and, and deal with.
01:14:15Yeah.
01:14:15Um, and does he have a social life?
01:14:18Does he have people that he can hang with?
01:14:20He's not helping friends online, but that's about it.
01:14:23You know what I mean?
01:14:24So, you know, yeah.
01:14:26I try to encourage going to camps and stuff, but he just never wanted to do it.
01:14:30Because I knew that, you know, that he would, you know, meet people just like him.
01:14:34And he would, you know, create, you know, networks of friends by going to camps.
01:14:38But, unfortunately, he never did it.
01:14:40So.
01:14:41Wouldn't there be camps though for people who have similar issues or the same issue?
01:14:45Or, or groups?
01:14:46No, no, definitely, definitely.
01:14:47But he just refused to go to him.
01:14:49Cause, you know, he doesn't, you know, maybe cause they're nervous or whatever, but he just,
01:14:54he doesn't see what I potentially see.
01:14:57Well, I know what happened, you know, it's the network of making my friends.
01:14:59But, you know, yeah, he just doesn't want to do it.
01:15:03Okay.
01:15:04And does he work?
01:15:06No, there's, there's no, there's none.
01:15:08I can't do that.
01:15:09There's no work or, you know, he can't really do it or not.
01:15:12But so.
01:15:13Oh, so, so is he in a wheelchair?
01:15:15Yeah.
01:15:16He's been in a wheelchair since like he was eight.
01:15:18Okay.
01:15:19I mean, the, the only, his mind is still functioning fine, right?
01:15:22Cause I'm no, obviously no expert on muscular dystrophy, but it is mostly just muscular and
01:15:27skeletal and neurological, isn't it?
01:15:29It's not brain.
01:15:30No, no, as far as, as far as I know, it's not, no, no, he's, he's mentally, he's fine.
01:15:35But just, you know, all the, I would say all the shortcomings that would come with something
01:15:39with not having, you know, a so-called normal average, you know, life, you know, you know,
01:15:44you could see, you know, like just the little interactions that you and I would, you know,
01:15:48just have, you know, like just exchanging, you know, money out of cash here.
01:15:52Like he doesn't see any of that interaction.
01:15:54So, you know what I mean?
01:15:55Those, those kind of little pitfalls in life that he ain't able to experience.
01:15:59So you can see that when you socially try to interact with him, you know what I mean?
01:16:02Which is fully understandable, but, you know, I just, you know, I was just wishing there
01:16:07was something that, you know, some magic words you could say to kind of give him a perspective
01:16:11or, or give me, or could I try and, you know, I try so many angles, but I just don't know
01:16:16if I'm saying the right things.
01:16:17I could be an asshole or an asshole sometimes too.
01:16:20And so I was like, this is a blessing to talk to you because I know you're a lot smarter
01:16:23than I am.
01:16:24I appreciate that.
01:16:25Now, has he had a prognosis that affects his lifespan?
01:16:30In other words, is it hitting his heart or other essential organs?
01:16:33Yeah, yeah, it does.
01:16:34Every, every muscle that's in the body.
01:16:37Yeah.
01:16:38Yeah.
01:16:39It's, yeah, the prognosis, you know, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, yeah, eventually it's
01:16:43going to be, you know, he's an imagination, you know what I'm saying?
01:16:46Right.
01:16:47And do, do you have any idea how long he might have?
01:16:50Honestly, I have no idea.
01:16:51No.
01:16:52So nobody's given him any kind of life expectancy, right?
01:16:55Honestly, I've never even asked, you know, the doctor, you can say that to us in our
01:16:59face because, because then, you know, you could kind of look at it.
01:17:02It's like, oh man, the tunnel's ending.
01:17:03So I'd rather not even see the light at the end of the tunnel.
01:17:06Don't even tell me about the light.
01:17:07You know what I'm saying?
01:17:08Yeah.
01:17:09What's, where's his mother?
01:17:11Yeah.
01:17:11What is she?
01:17:12What do you mean?
01:17:12What is she here?
01:17:13No, where is she?
01:17:14Sorry.
01:17:14Oh, she's, she's about a couple hours up north.
01:17:17So you guys aren't together?
01:17:18No, no.
01:17:19I had to leave that.
01:17:20Yeah.
01:17:20She was just too much, but she's a good person, but, you know, she just wasn't doing what a
01:17:26white should have been doing.
01:17:27So I couldn't do it no more.
01:17:28I mean.
01:17:29And what's his relationship like with her?
01:17:31Oh, it's good.
01:17:31It's good.
01:17:32It's good.
01:17:33It's really good.
01:17:34Yeah.
01:17:34I mean, listen, I, I, obviously it's not a specifically philosophical issue.
01:17:38This is just sort of father to father.
01:17:39What I would say is that you have to work with the limitations that you're provided and
01:17:44every single limitation can be an advancement somewhere else.
01:17:51Right.
01:17:51So, so, so he's limited in his physicality to put it mildly for which of course you both
01:17:57have, and he in particular have my deep, deep sympathy.
01:18:00So what we can do is we can say I'm limited and we can focus on our limitations or what
01:18:07we can do is we can say I'm limited.
01:18:09So I'm going to focus on how I can use that to extend some other ability.
01:18:17Yeah.
01:18:18Well, you know, hang on.
01:18:19So, so hang on.
01:18:20You're calling me to ask for advice, right?
01:18:22So if you, if I start giving advice and you start talking, I'm happy if you have something
01:18:25else you want to say, but it's fine.
01:18:26You're right.
01:18:26I'm sorry.
01:18:27I'm going to give the advice.
01:18:28That's fine.
01:18:28Go ahead.
01:18:29Go ahead.
01:18:29Great.
01:18:30Great.
01:18:30Well, what I was going to say is, you know, not really that, but, you know, to get your
01:18:34approval is, you know, sometimes I tell him that the strongest muscle he has is his
01:18:38volume, which is in the muscle, but, you know, so kind of, you know, that's what I was
01:18:44going to interject.
01:18:45Go ahead.
01:18:46Yeah.
01:18:46So, I mean, we have, we have, we all have terrible things happen to us now.
01:18:51Of course, the cards he's been dealt with are particularly bad.
01:18:54So I, I hesitate, of course, to give any examples from my own life because I've not been in a
01:18:59wheelchair since I was eight.
01:19:00So I say this with all due humility and so on.
01:19:04But, you know, when I had cancer, then what I did was I said, okay, well, I'm really going
01:19:09to work to be super healthy now.
01:19:10So I'm going to lose more weight.
01:19:12I'm going to eat as healthily as I can.
01:19:15I'm going to exercise a lot.
01:19:17And so I tried to use that.
01:19:19Oh, no, my phone died.
01:19:20I'm sorry?
01:19:21Oh, his phone died.
01:19:22Oh, dear.
01:19:23Okay.
01:19:24So I'll sort of finish this up here.
01:19:25So when I had cancer, I had to say, well, I, I'm obviously going to take the treatments
01:19:34and, and work through them.
01:19:35And I'm going to work as hard as I can to be as healthy as I can in my life going forward.
01:19:40And so that's the best thing that I could do when my life's work was largely erased from
01:19:47the internet.
01:19:47And my income, of course, was cut savagely and my reach was cut savagely.
01:19:52I had to say, I decided to say to myself, okay, well, I've done a lot of politics.
01:19:56I originally started as an artist, as a novelist and a poet and a playwright.
01:20:00So I'm going to go back.
01:20:02I read my books as audio books.
01:20:05I wrote two new novels.
01:20:08I'm working on a third.
01:20:09And I wrote the book, Peaceful Parenting, and a shortened version of it as well.
01:20:13And so I, I decided to try and create beauty if my life work in sort of philosophy and politics
01:20:23was erased, I could sort of return to a more artistic life and try and enjoy life in that
01:20:29way.
01:20:30And again, it's a completely ridiculous example.
01:20:33So it's just for the sake of principle, somebody asked me when I started losing my hair and it
01:20:38was like my twenties and like, but how did you deal with that insecurity and all of that?
01:20:41And I'm like, well, I just worked out more because I mean, you can be, you can be bald
01:20:47and have muscles.
01:20:48It's actually kind of a cool look, but you can't be bald and fat, right?
01:20:51You can be, you can have a lot of hair and be fat or at least be overweight.
01:20:54It's not so bad, but you can't be fat and bald.
01:20:57So again, this is a completely ridiculous example relative to the suffering that this gentleman's
01:21:02son is facing.
01:21:03But when you are restricted in one particular area, I think it's really important to try and
01:21:10figure out where you can focus your strengths.
01:21:13And if your physicality is restricted, you have to work on what you can do with your mind.
01:21:18You really have no other choice unless you're willing to just kind of hang around and wait
01:21:23for the end.
01:21:24All right.
01:21:25So sorry that his phone died.
01:21:28Zilin, Zilin, Zilin the sixth.
01:21:31I think we talked before if you want to unmute.
01:21:33Otherwise, we'll go to someone else.
01:21:37All right.
01:21:37Bye, Samba.
01:21:38What's on your mind?
01:21:38What do you want?
01:21:40Hello.
01:21:42How are you?
01:21:43I'm well, thanks.
01:21:43How are you doing?
01:21:45Not good.
01:21:46I'm sorry.
01:21:47I can barely hear you.
01:21:48You're going to have to get closer to your microphone.
01:21:50I see.
01:21:51I'm not good.
01:21:52You're not good.
01:21:53Okay.
01:21:53What's on your mind?
01:21:55I'm from the Gambia.
01:21:56My name is Brian Samba.
01:21:57Sure.
01:21:58So where are you from?
01:22:00I'm sorry.
01:22:00Do you know why you're calling?
01:22:02Do you have a question for me?
01:22:04No.
01:22:05Me, I'm a beggar.
01:22:05I'm a beggar to come here to look who will be helping.
01:22:09Okay.
01:22:09Well, that's interesting.
01:22:10I'm not really quite sure of the politeness of just calling it randomly and not having anything to talk about.
01:22:18But that's all right.
01:22:19That's all right.
01:22:20Takes all kinds, I suppose, to make this little orb go around.
01:22:23So freedomain.com slash donate to help out the show.
01:22:26I really would appreciate it.
01:22:27And, you know, again, I'm sure that you all will join me in the massive sympathies for, in particular, the fathers and the mothers.
01:22:33Well, the fathers who called in and the mothers who are around dealing with these significant issues with their children.
01:22:39It certainly is a very tragic and sad and difficult situation.
01:22:44And I really can't tell you how much I respect the parents who are dealing with these kinds of situations.
01:22:51I'm not sure I'd do a particularly good job.
01:22:53In fact, I'm quite sure I would not do a particularly good job.
01:22:56So I really do massively respect and admire the parents who take on these kinds of challenges and wrestle with them and deal with them successfully.
01:23:05It is intensely and immensely impressive for me, in particular, because it's not my particular skill sets at all.
01:23:12And so I just further want to extend my massive respect and affection and best and good wishes to families struggling with these kinds of issues.
01:23:22And if there's anything I can do in terms of you can call in and if talking about it helps, I'm certainly happy and willing to be a sympathetic ear.
01:23:29So have yourselves a wonderful evening.
01:23:31We will speak Wednesday night.
01:23:32And hopefully the fellow, I have a logician who is very negative towards me and calls me, I think, a pseudo-intellectual or something like that.
01:23:43So he's got significant criticisms of UPB.
01:23:46And I would love to have, I've offered him a debate.
01:23:49He said that he's going to take me up on the debate.
01:23:51So I've offered him Wednesday night at 7 p.m.
01:23:53We'll live stream that so that he can set me straight and bring his logical prowess to my pseudo-philosophy, as he puts it.
01:24:02And I look forward to being corrected by this fine professorial gentleman.
01:24:08And I'm sure that he can iron out any kinks in my moral theory and set me straight.
01:24:12If I've missed the obvious, the important thing is to be correct, not just to feel right.
01:24:18So hopefully 7 p.m. Eastern Standard on Wednesday, we'll do a live stream with that.
01:24:23And he can call in and expose my faulty logic for the foolishness that it is.
01:24:31Or maybe not.
01:24:32We'll see.
01:24:33We'll find out as we go forward.
01:24:35So have yourselves a wonderful evening.
01:24:37Freedomand.com slash donate to help out the show.
01:24:39Hugely would appreciate it.
01:24:40And don't forget to go to freedomand.com slash books for all the free books in the known universe.
01:24:45Thanks, everyone.
01:24:46Good night.
01:24:46Good night.
Be the first to comment
Add your comment

Recommended

How to Forgive Parents! Twitter/X Space
Stefan Molyneux
6 months ago
The Ethics of KILLING! Twitter/X Space
Stefan Molyneux
6 months ago
The Philosophy of the Death Penalty! Twitter/X Space
Stefan Molyneux
7 months ago
When to Give Up! Premium Livestream
Stefan Molyneux
6 months ago
EVEN MORE ANSWERS TO X LISTENER QUESTIONS - 5
Stefan Molyneux
4 months ago
Bring Asylums Back!
Stefan Molyneux
8 months ago
PMS Girlfriend! Twitter/X Space
Stefan Molyneux
5 months ago
Saving the World: Pros and Cons! Freedomain Call In
Stefan Molyneux
1 year ago
How to Befriend Your Inner Parents
Stefan Molyneux
9 months ago
A 5 Year Old Fights with his Dad! CALL IN SHOW
Stefan Molyneux
5 months ago
Everything I Have Achieved!
Stefan Molyneux
8 months ago
STOP TAKING SHORTCUTS! Freedomain Call In
Stefan Molyneux
1 year ago
Helping a Mom with Cancer!
Stefan Molyneux
1 year ago
The Magic of Me!
Stefan Molyneux
1 year ago
How You Get Hurt...
Stefan Molyneux
1 year ago
The Invitation to Unintelligence!
Stefan Molyneux
1 year ago
There Is No Such Thing as Mental Illness!
Stefan Molyneux
9 months ago
HEROIN BABY!?!
Stefan Molyneux
1 year ago
The Truth About 'Gentle Parenting' - Part 3
Stefan Molyneux
1 year ago
My Mother Almost Destroyed Me... Freedomain Call In
Stefan Molyneux
1 year ago
Gentle Parenting Revisited - Article Review
Stefan Molyneux
1 year ago
How to be HAPPY!
Stefan Molyneux
1 year ago
What REALLY Happened Over COVID...
Stefan Molyneux
9 months ago
People with No Inner Dialogue!
Stefan Molyneux
7 months ago
Fireman Sam US NEW Episodes 2017 | Lost int the Caves! | Cartoons for Children
FrancisAcku18513464
8 years ago