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Stefan Molyneux
  • 4 months ago
FLASH LIVE Q&A 2 June 2025

In this episode, host Stefan engages with a listener who shares his anxiety about facilitating social interactions for his nearly two-year-old daughter in playground settings. The caller reflects on his own childhood marked by parental absence and emotional detachment, revealing fears of passing these anxieties onto his daughter. As they explore the caller's past experiences, including strained relationships and feelings of isolation, Stefan underscores the importance of open communication and parental involvement in a child's life. He discusses how minor challenges can positively contribute to a child's resilience and social skills when coupled with support. By the end, the caller gains valuable insights into nurturing a trusting relationship with his daughter, emphasizing emotional support as key to healthy social development.

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Transcript
00:00:00Hello, hello. 2nd of June, 2025, just after 3 p.m. Eastern Standard Time.
00:00:04Going to answer some questions in case people had any questions live that they wanted to ask.
00:00:10I am perfectly happy to hear those. Thank you so much.
00:00:13Can we hear Stefan?
00:00:14Yes, sir. Go ahead.
00:00:16Hey, Stefan. I had a question.
00:00:20So I have a daughter. She's almost two.
00:00:24And, you know, I take her to the park and stuff.
00:00:26Um, and I often feel a lot of, like, anxiety around other children.
00:00:33And I'm trying to figure out how much of that is, like, is just some reality, like other children not being peacefully parent and this kind of stuff and being cautious about that or how much of that is based on my own history.
00:00:46I'm not sure if this is, uh, do you have time for a question like that or that's a good question?
00:00:52What do you mean? It's a parenting question. You're a listener with a kid.
00:00:55Yeah, that's what I say. That's how I roll. That's what I do. So, yeah, yeah, go ahead. Tell me more.
00:01:00Uh, yeah, so, so, um, I mean, I take my daughter to the park and she's not really old enough to play with the other kids, but she kind of just likes to be around them.
00:01:07Just, like, watch them and, um, and sort of observe and maybe she'll sort of, um, engage sometimes.
00:01:13But for the most part, she just likes to watch them and just kind of be around.
00:01:17And whenever the other kids are around, it's just kind of, uh, it's, I find it a little nerve wracking.
00:01:21Um, and yeah, I'm just trying to figure out, cause I had, you know, I had a bad childhood and, um, I, um, uh, a lot of, um, social isolation and stuff.
00:01:35And my parents didn't really prepare me to deal with other kids and this kind of thing.
00:01:39So I'm trying to figure out how much is that, like, I need to get over my own thing or if it's just objective, like, you know, kids are not peacefully parented and you need to be cautious around them.
00:01:49Okay. Well, uh, more variables is always good. Tell me a little bit about your childhood or a lot.
00:01:54Uh, yeah. Um, so my, um, my, my parent, my mother was, um, very, uh,
00:02:08um, was very busy and she, she worked in, she was like a mark.
00:02:16She'd come home at like seven or eight, uh, pretty much every night.
00:02:20Um, and my dad, um, was very distant, very emotionally distant and, and not really there.
00:02:27And he had like a really bad temper.
00:02:29Um, so the, and it would be, you know, over, over little things.
00:02:33I actually talked to you about this 10 years ago now.
00:02:35Um, but, um, yeah.
00:02:38And yeah, I don't remember them giving me any sort of advice on how to deal with other children.
00:02:44Like the earliest memory I have with, um, dealing with other children was, um, it was like my first day of pre-kindergarten.
00:02:52You'd spend like half the day at school.
00:02:54Um, and I was dropped off.
00:02:57Like four?
00:02:58Uh, pre-k, it must be, I remember grade one was, um, I was, I would have been seven, turning seven.
00:03:06So I must've been four or five.
00:03:08Yeah.
00:03:09And, uh, what was going on in your childhood before that?
00:03:11Was your mother home or did you, um, were you dumped somewhere?
00:03:16No, I had a nanny.
00:03:17Uh, my mother was, um, she stayed home for like, you know, six months, typical maternity leave.
00:03:22And then, um, my father was a teacher at a college, so he didn't actually work that much because he was a college teacher.
00:03:32Um, and so he was home a fair amount, but I had a nanny.
00:03:35Um, I had like a string of nannies, kind of like in, um, a character in the God of the Atheist.
00:03:39So did you say a string of nannies?
00:03:41The nummies, right?
00:03:42I had, um, yeah, I had a nanny and a nanny that I really bonded with a lot, actually.
00:03:47Um, and she was, she was quite good to me from what I remember.
00:03:50She was like Croatian.
00:03:51Um, and she, but she, um, I don't remember why she stopped being my nanny, but I don't know if it was her choice, my parents, but I was really like heartbroken when she stopped being my nanny when I was, I must've been eight, nine, something like that.
00:04:07Um, but yeah.
00:04:09Oh, wow.
00:04:10So you, you had a nanny up till like you're late.
00:04:12I had a nanny till eight or nine.
00:04:14Yeah.
00:04:14And then we had like our, our neighbor became our nanny, like her neighbor was a stay at home mom.
00:04:18And she just sort of, um, I guess my parents paid her to be our nanny.
00:04:22And then I had like an Italian nanny who was, it was kind of weird, but, um, that was more like when I was almost a teenager until I was old enough to kind of take care of myself at home.
00:04:32Okay.
00:04:33So, uh, did the nanny, uh, did you remember your early nannies at all?
00:04:39Uh, yeah, my first nanny, I remember quite a bit.
00:04:41She was, um, I mostly have positive memories of her.
00:04:44She was, um, she was very, uh, very warm and nice and had a daughter that kind of hung out with us the whole time when she was working.
00:04:52Um, the daughter was like a few years older.
00:04:54She was more like five or a few years older than me at the time.
00:04:58Yeah.
00:04:59And did you play with her at all?
00:05:01Uh, yeah.
00:05:02Yeah.
00:05:02We played, we played a lot with her.
00:05:03So you had some experience with kids as a kid?
00:05:06Yes.
00:05:07Yeah.
00:05:07And do you have siblings?
00:05:09I have a younger sister.
00:05:11Yeah.
00:05:12Okay.
00:05:12How much younger?
00:05:14She's three years younger.
00:05:16And did you play with her much at all?
00:05:19Um, uh, not, not so much.
00:05:23Um, a little bit here and there, but for the most part I'd play with my nanny or I'd play with my Legos or something.
00:05:28Um, not so much with her.
00:05:30Oh, so you played solitarily.
00:05:32Is that right?
00:05:34Uh, yeah.
00:05:36Or with my nanny for the most part.
00:05:37Okay.
00:05:39And were there kids in the neighborhood?
00:05:43Uh, yeah, there were kids in the neighborhood.
00:05:45Um, I remember playing with them more as I got a bit older.
00:05:49Um, I think more after like seven or eight or nine, we would, it was kind of like, um, you know, it was, it was Canada in the, in the nineties and early two thousands.
00:06:00So it was pretty high trust still back then.
00:06:02Um, and we, uh, sort of played like hockey and basketball and this kind of stuff and just kind of like free range to some degree.
00:06:11But that was, it was a bit older that, that I started playing with other kids in the neighborhood.
00:06:16Okay.
00:06:17All right.
00:06:17So you have reasonable levels of experience playing with kids, right?
00:06:22Yes.
00:06:23Yeah.
00:06:23Okay.
00:06:24But not until you were older.
00:06:26Yeah.
00:06:26Okay.
00:06:27So tell me what happens when you go to the park in Canada.
00:06:36Uh, right now?
00:06:38Yeah.
00:06:39Yeah.
00:06:40Um,
00:06:41when we go to the park, um, and I sort of just, um, we either push my daughter in the swing.
00:06:49Um, and she kind of likes doing that and staring at the kids or she's sort of, she likes climbing now.
00:06:55So she's really good at climbing things.
00:06:57Um, so if, you know, if there's no one there, I don't feel the anxiety obviously.
00:07:01Um, but when, when there are other kids there, we kind of just go, go to the park and, um, she sort of stares at them and we, I kind of like hang around her.
00:07:11And make sure they don't like bump into her and make sure they don't like bump into her or something or she doesn't fall, um, off of the, off of the playground.
00:07:17Um, so I fall off the playground.
00:07:21Uh, it's, you know, it's on, on the, um, when you climb on the playground and she's not like old enough to sort of, um, climb herself all the way up.
00:07:29So, um, like not fall off.
00:07:32The monkey bars or the climbing?
00:07:33The monkey bars.
00:07:34It's kind of, yeah, yeah, the climbing.
00:07:35Got it.
00:07:36Okay.
00:07:37And have you seen kids who are mean or careless at the park?
00:07:43Yeah.
00:07:44Yeah.
00:07:45And what have you seen?
00:07:47Um.
00:07:47Well, not so much, not so much mean, a little bit of mean, um, like I saw this group of three kids and it was like a, a boy and two girls.
00:08:03And I have a really hard time, uh, guessing ages.
00:08:07Um, but I would guess that there may be nine, 10, 11.
00:08:12Um, and the boy, uh, kind of like threw rocks at the one girl.
00:08:18Um, and then she was, she said something and he was like, every time you say that word, I'm going to throw stuff at you.
00:08:27Um, so that, that was kind of the, the, the main thing I saw.
00:08:31And another time, um, I was at the park and, um, it was like a, uh, there's like a campground near me.
00:08:40Um, and, uh, we were there on like a Friday afternoon.
00:08:42So everyone was like coming in for the weekend.
00:08:44So you mean like an adult campground?
00:08:47Yeah.
00:08:47Yeah.
00:08:47Not like a kid's camp.
00:08:48Summer camp.
00:08:49Okay.
00:08:49Got it.
00:08:50No, no.
00:08:50Yeah.
00:08:50Yeah.
00:08:51Yeah.
00:08:51Just a campground where people come for the weekend.
00:08:53Um, then there's like a day use area that we can hang out in and it's like walking distance from our house.
00:08:58Um, and there were.
00:09:01Like four kids there.
00:09:02So there's a one boy, um, and he was like, he must've been like 12 or 13.
00:09:06He was really like athletic looking and just kind of showed up.
00:09:09And, um, none of these kids were, were that mean, but I, I sort of, um, the, the three kids were in a family.
00:09:15And then this one just random boy came and became friends with them just like automatically as I guess sometimes happens when you're kids.
00:09:21Um, and, uh, he kind of like ran off with the other kids.
00:09:25They went to like the campsite or whatever, and then came back and I overheard.
00:09:29It's, it's that, that random boy's parents.
00:09:33Um, and he was like talking like pretty, like not nicely to his daughter.
00:09:38Um, the, the father of the boy.
00:09:41Um, I couldn't hear what they were saying, but, um, I think he was asking where the boy went and she was like, I don't know.
00:09:47And he was like, he was just being like, it seemed unnecessarily like stirring with her.
00:09:52Yeah.
00:09:52Um, and then the, um, the, the boy came back and the father called the boy over, um, and said something like, uh, you don't like you stay at the park or you come here.
00:10:07Like you don't, you don't go off running, which I guess is reasonable, but it seems like it would make more sense to like get to know the other kids and see if they're like safe to hang out with kind of thing.
00:10:17Rather than just like, uh, scold them or whatever.
00:10:20So I felt sort of anxious around those kids because they're a little rough around the edges.
00:10:23Some of the people around here are a little like, um, trailer trashy.
00:10:28Well, but you want your kids to be around kids who are a little rough around the edges because they're going to meet those people in life.
00:10:33Right.
00:10:34And I'm not saying at the age of two, your daughter fends for herself.
00:10:37I'm not saying anything like that, but try not to be, and I'm not saying you are, but try to avoid the bubble wrap parent thing.
00:10:43Like, because I had bad experiences, my children cannot have bad experiences.
00:10:49Do you know what I mean?
00:10:50It's sort of like if you were chronically sick as a child and then you say, well, my kids can't go anywhere or do anything because I don't want them to be sick.
00:10:58Right.
00:10:59But that's not, you know, that's, that's not going to help.
00:11:03All right.
00:11:03Cause they need to be out there, you know, a little bit eating dirt and being exposed to germs.
00:11:07And that's, you know, that's important.
00:11:09Right.
00:11:09So it's important not to swing the other way.
00:11:12Right.
00:11:12So your kids are going to have negative experiences.
00:11:16That doesn't mean that you're a bad parent.
00:11:17In fact, because life is, well, I mean, sometimes it feels like an entire sequence of negative experiences.
00:11:23You know, they certainly cluster.
00:11:25Right.
00:11:25So your kids need to be able to deal with negative situations.
00:11:28They need to be able to deal with difficult people.
00:11:31They need to be able to deal with aggressive people because they're going to run into those in life.
00:11:36And so you need to give them some sort of inoculation.
00:11:39Now, again, you don't turn them loose.
00:11:41You model it all.
00:11:41And we'll get to that in a sec.
00:11:44But is it your feeling that your daughter can't experience negative, have negative experiences?
00:11:54Yes, I think, I think there's some of that overprotectiveness.
00:11:58And I think my wife sort of feels that way as well.
00:12:01So give me sort of your top two or three most negative experiences as a kid that you think is driving this.
00:12:07And they could be long-term experiences, too.
00:12:16So I think, well, so the story that I think I didn't finish at the beginning, but my first day of pre-K, we were, I kind of showed up and
00:12:29we were running, just running around a tree.
00:12:35That was just the whole game.
00:12:36I was running around the tree.
00:12:38And I think some kids pushed me over.
00:12:42And that was like a negative experience for me.
00:12:45And it wasn't like a huge negative experience for me.
00:12:48It's just that I didn't have anyone to talk to about it.
00:12:50And I didn't like...
00:12:51Sorry, tell me what you mean some kid pushed you over.
00:12:53What do you mean?
00:12:54In more detail.
00:12:54What does that mean?
00:12:55Like, we're running around a tree and some kid pushed me over and I fell and it hurt or whatever.
00:13:02And was your impression that this was a conscious?
00:13:06Like, it wasn't just like you were running into each other.
00:13:08He put his hands out to protect himself and you fell down.
00:13:11Do you think this was a target you, lock in, conscious, push you over thing?
00:13:16He was behind me.
00:13:17So I don't think it was an accident.
00:13:20Well, it could be.
00:13:20And again, I'm not trying to defend the kid.
00:13:22But I'm just trying to say, is it possible that...
00:13:25How old was the kid, roughly?
00:13:28He would have been the same age as being sort of around five or six.
00:13:31Okay.
00:13:31So he could have just been get out of the way.
00:13:33Like, it may not have been malicious.
00:13:35Possibly, right?
00:13:36So, again, you don't know what his intentions were.
00:13:39And it's important not to jump to conclusions about intentions as a whole.
00:13:44So you were pushed over and it could have been malevolent.
00:13:46It could have been...
00:13:47Although it's hard to say a five-year-old is malevolent, right?
00:13:49But it could also have been accidental, right?
00:13:54Maybe he was tripping and just reached out to steady himself and you got pushed.
00:13:58Or maybe he was just kind of selfish in a way.
00:14:00And he was like, get out of my way.
00:14:02You're in my way.
00:14:03I need to move out of my way.
00:14:04Or it could have been, I'm going to push you over to hurt you and, you know, be a bully or whatever, right?
00:14:10So it could be any number of those things.
00:14:11But you were pushed and you fell and then what?
00:14:14That's pretty much it.
00:14:20I'm trying to think of...
00:14:21Wait, so did you get like strawberry knee or were you cuts and bruises or what happened with you being pushed?
00:14:30I don't remember if I had any cuts and bruises.
00:14:32It was just kind of an unsettling experience to go from...
00:14:37Because it was my first day in public school, basically, to go from just like hanging out with my nanny and the kids on the block, I guess, and my parents.
00:14:45And then being sort of just...
00:14:48So you hit some rough running around a tree.
00:14:51Yeah.
00:14:51Yeah.
00:14:51Okay.
00:14:52And help me understand.
00:14:53I mean, you weren't injured, right?
00:14:56You got pushed down and help me.
00:14:59I'm not trying to minimize your experience.
00:15:00I'm just trying to understand why this stuck with you in this way.
00:15:07Well, I think it stuck with me because I wasn't taught how to deal with that or that that was...
00:15:25How would you have dealt with that if you'd been taught, do you think?
00:15:27Or how would you teach your kid?
00:15:28I don't mean this to sound overly challenging.
00:15:39Like, what the hell would you do?
00:15:40I'm genuinely curious, right?
00:15:42How would you have liked people to deal with it?
00:15:45Yeah, so I think it probably would have been something like, if I guess my dad might have talked to me, it was probably like a father conversation.
00:15:59And it's something like, well, you know how we sort of, we like wrestle and we play in this kind of thing.
00:16:08And I'm, you know, I'm an adult and I'm able to sort of control my body and this kind of thing.
00:16:16And kids, and you like to roughhouse too and stuff and you like to wrestle with me.
00:16:24Kids, when you play with other kids, they don't have the same ability to control themselves like I do.
00:16:30So if you get into sort of roughhousing with other kids, they might, you know, push you and you might fall and it might hurt a little bit.
00:16:38But that's okay because that's part of being a kid and that's part of, you know, learning how to use your, maybe in less, you know, maybe less verbose words, but how I describe it.
00:16:53But something like that, like, it's sort of, it's natural to roughhustle with other kids and it gets a bit out of hand and you might get a little bit hurt.
00:17:02Okay.
00:17:03However, of course, it could have been a mean kid who wanted to hurt you.
00:17:06Could have been, right?
00:17:07So you can't give that speech as if you know what the kid's intentions are.
00:17:13Sure.
00:17:14Yeah.
00:17:15Okay.
00:17:16But it was not physically traumatic, right?
00:17:19You just, you got pushed over.
00:17:21Unsettling, I get that.
00:17:22But it wasn't physically dangerous or traumatic.
00:17:25Did the kid, did you see the kid after that?
00:17:27Was he continuing to be careless or cruel?
00:17:32I can't even remember these people at all.
00:17:34I can't remember.
00:17:35No, but if the kid had been careless or cruel, I'm sure you would have remembered it, right?
00:17:42Yeah, yeah.
00:17:42So I don't remember much about this kid apart from.
00:17:46So mostly, I mean, most likely an accident.
00:17:48If it didn't, if he didn't like target you again and push you over again, like repeatedly, which I'm sure you would remember.
00:17:53So most likely an accident based on subsequent behavior, right?
00:17:57Yeah.
00:17:58Yeah, that's true.
00:17:58So why do you think it unsettled you so much?
00:18:03And to start a criticism, I'm genuinely curious.
00:18:04I mean, I have a theory, but it's your experience, so your experience matters more than my theory.
00:18:20Well, I'm curious to hear your theory because I'm drawing a blank a bit here.
00:18:27Well, my theory would be that because you were pushed over and because you fell and it was upsetting and maybe a little painful, you realized that you were unprotected in the world because you didn't have a father you could talk to about it.
00:18:40I don't know if you tried to talk about it with your nanny or your mother or anyone else, but you got a very strong sense of your own isolation in the social milieu because you were aggressed against by accident or on purpose and you didn't have anyone you could talk to or anyone who would protect you.
00:18:57And therefore, you got a strong sense of your isolation and it was not the push or the fall that was unsettling.
00:19:06It was the unprotected and isolated nature of your existence as a child, I think, socially.
00:19:13Yeah, yeah, that's definitely, I think that resonates because I did talk to my nanny about it, but I didn't talk to my dad about it.
00:19:22And come to think about it, I was already, you know, I was playing sports and I think I was playing hockey by that time and definitely more aggression happened in hockey or, you know, accidental falling or this kind of thing.
00:19:35But it was like sort of a structured environment.
00:19:37And for those who don't know, no joke in Canada, like I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out.
00:19:43Yeah.
00:19:45Yeah.
00:19:45So that I think that's that's definitely that is what it is.
00:19:50Yeah.
00:19:50OK, so why didn't you talk about it with your father?
00:19:54And again, I hate to repeat myself.
00:19:55I'm sorry to be a broken record.
00:19:57This is not like, well, why the hell didn't you talk to your father?
00:19:59It's genuine curiosity.
00:20:00Why?
00:20:00Why did you not talk to your father?
00:20:02What was your concern?
00:20:11I think I got the sense mostly that it was it was pointless.
00:20:15That he didn't have any interest in sharing with me how to deal with situations like this.
00:20:28Um, and he, he didn't, um, really know how to deal with this kind of stuff either because he, I think he, he grew up as a socially awkward person too.
00:20:43Um, and never really dealt with it.
00:20:45A socially awkward guy who ended up as a university professor.
00:20:47Huh, all right.
00:20:49Yeah.
00:20:51Yeah.
00:20:51Yeah.
00:20:52Um, I think he grew up socially awkward and, um, he never learned how to deal with, um, with people and how to be like reasonably assertive because he, um, you know, he had a bad temper and he would sort of like build up these resentments and, and not sort of talk about them in a healthy way.
00:21:10Um, and then eventually it would just, you know, uh, boil over and he, he'd like scream or something.
00:21:17Um, so I just got the sense that it was pointless.
00:21:21Most professors are very fragile bullies, which is why they have to go for tenure, right?
00:21:25I mean, why, why would you be so desperate for tenure if you felt you could earn and keep your job based on your merits?
00:21:30So they tend to be kind of fragile and because they have so much power and the students, they have so much power over students, uh, they end up being kind of bullies.
00:21:36I'm not saying that's true of all professors and maybe that's not one-to-one ratio with your dad, but it's quite common and very immature, very, very immature.
00:21:44They stay very immature because they're shielded from adulthood market competition, blowback consequences and so on.
00:21:51So go ahead.
00:21:51Yeah, he was, he was like a huge underachiever because he was like, he, he scored like mental level on like, um, he'd do like IQ tests and he'd score mental level.
00:22:02And I don't remember any, like, I don't know that that's super impressive.
00:22:07Um, I, I just know that he took IQ tests and it was very high and I think he was a very smart person.
00:22:13Um, but, um, he, he just like totally wasted his intellect.
00:22:17Well, not totally.
00:22:19I mean, if he was a cab driver, maybe, or some five easy pieces thing, but what do you mean totally?
00:22:24Oh, because he taught like, um, uh, climate change stuff, like, uh, sustainability.
00:22:30So I feel like that's a waste.
00:22:32Um, he was a, oh, like you felt like climate change propaganda or that was necessary to have his job.
00:22:38He showed me that, um, Al Gore documentary.
00:22:41What was it?
00:22:41Um, I think.
00:22:42Oh, Inconvenient Truth.
00:22:43Inconvenient Truth.
00:22:44Yeah.
00:22:44Um, and he was like talking about peak oil and this kind of thing.
00:22:48Um, sorry.
00:22:50How old when he began talking to you about environmental issues?
00:22:56Um, must have been.
00:23:01I have a hard time remembering.
00:23:02It must have been like 12 or something like that.
00:23:04Oh, okay.
00:23:04So he didn't, he didn't hit your single digits with, we're all going to die, uh, in a hellish
00:23:10conflagration, right?
00:23:12Okay.
00:23:12So it was at least until you were old.
00:23:14Yeah.
00:23:14Yeah.
00:23:15Yeah.
00:23:15A bit older.
00:23:16Yeah.
00:23:17Okay.
00:23:19So you said that you felt it would be useless to talk to your father.
00:23:22Uh, what did you anticipate his response to be that you avoided talking to him about the
00:23:28push?
00:23:33Um, it probably would have been something very brief, like, um, like, oh, well, kids are like
00:23:41that or something.
00:23:42Um, and it wouldn't have been a very, he probably would have tried to like keep the conversation
00:23:48brief and change the subject.
00:23:50Okay.
00:23:51So let me try meeting your inner dad.
00:23:53So I'll be you at five.
00:23:55I won't alter my voice in any particular way because I don't respond well to helium, but,
00:24:00um, yeah, you be your dad and I'll, I'll be you talking about this so I can get a sense
00:24:04of how he would respond if that's all right.
00:24:07Uh, sure.
00:24:08Okay.
00:24:09Uh, so dad, uh, I got, I got, it was my first day at pre-k today and I got pushed over by
00:24:14another kid.
00:24:15It was really, really unpleasant.
00:24:16Um, uh, that, that's not, that's not very nice, is it?
00:24:25No, it wasn't nice at all.
00:24:26And I, I, I felt really bad.
00:24:31I mean, I didn't get hurt really, but I just felt really bad and I don't know what to do.
00:24:37Hmm.
00:24:41Hmm.
00:24:42I'm trying, I have a, I'm kind of blanking.
00:24:47Um, well, he would, he would just, he wouldn't continue the conversation.
00:24:52Yeah.
00:24:52Like, oh yeah, that's tough.
00:24:53And he would just blank off or go off somewhere or pick up his phone or something like that.
00:24:57Right.
00:24:58So then I would say, dad, I kind of need your, I need something from you.
00:25:04Like, what do I do if I get pushed over?
00:25:07Oh, well, you just, uh, you know, you, you pick yourself up and you, you dust it off.
00:25:15That happens sometimes.
00:25:17Well, it didn't just happen.
00:25:19Like a kid pushed me.
00:25:21What am I supposed to do?
00:25:25Hmm.
00:25:26Um.
00:25:29Well, I'm, I'm not really sure.
00:25:31Well, what do you do when people push you around?
00:25:35I mean, I'm not saying people push you over, but what do you do?
00:25:40Well, I'm not, I'm not really a kid anymore, so it doesn't really, really happen to me.
00:25:45Oh, so nobody like pushes you around or nobody's ever mean to you or, because it seems like you're
00:25:50kind of grouchy about work a lot.
00:25:53Uh, yeah, well, I mean, my, my students are kind of a pain sometimes, so.
00:25:57Okay.
00:25:57So your students can be difficult, right?
00:25:59And maybe they try and push you around or they ask for things that are unfair or something
00:26:03like that.
00:26:04So what do you do?
00:26:09Um.
00:26:19Well, I kind of just, um, I, uh, I sort of make snarky comments, uh, and, uh, you know,
00:26:27make them feel stupid.
00:26:30Oh.
00:26:32I mean, that's not very assertive, is it?
00:26:37What, what do you mean?
00:26:39Well, I mean, of course, I'm not speaking like a five-year-old here, just so you know.
00:26:42But, I mean, that seems kind of passive-aggressive.
00:26:43You don't confront them directly on it.
00:26:45You just make mean comments and try to make them feel bad, right?
00:26:47Because, you know, you have a pretty bad temper around here sometimes, Dad.
00:26:50And so I guess, you know, something about, and, and so when a kid pushes me over, you
00:26:55say, well, you're just supposed to dust it off and, and, I don't know, ignore it.
00:26:59But you don't ignore things that make you mad, which is why you're kind of grouchy.
00:27:03I mean, sometimes.
00:27:07Uh, yeah, well, you know, um, you can't really, uh, you know, get, get really aggressive with,
00:27:14uh, with your students.
00:27:16Uh, but you do get pretty aggressive at home, right?
00:27:19Hmm, well, you know, sometimes I, sometimes I lose my temper.
00:27:27Okay, okay, so, because I was mad at the kid, right?
00:27:29So I'm trying to figure out when should I lose my temper.
00:27:32And the first thing you say to me is, you, you got pushed over, it was really upsetting,
00:27:36but don't let it bother you.
00:27:37But it seems like a lot of things bother you at home.
00:27:40So I'm trying to figure out the difference.
00:27:44I mean, if, if you were waiting, uh, on the street corner and someone pushed you down,
00:27:49to the ground, and you kind of hurt yourself, wouldn't you get mad?
00:27:56Uh, yeah, I guess, I guess I would.
00:27:59Okay, so what's the difference?
00:28:00Why should I just brush things off and not let them bother me, but you would get mad?
00:28:05Um, well, you know, um, once you get older, things are different.
00:28:21I feel like you're just kind of making up answers here, Dad.
00:28:24I mean, you get the contradiction, right?
00:28:27Like, you get the contradiction, right?
00:28:31Uh, yeah.
00:28:31You get that it doesn't fit together, right?
00:28:32I, I should not let things bother me, but you spend a good chunk of your time cranky
00:28:37and mad around the house about things that aren't particularly important relative to
00:28:41getting pushed over.
00:28:42So I said, well, if you got pushed over, you'd get mad.
00:28:44Yes, I would.
00:28:45But you, you son, you shouldn't get mad.
00:28:47You should just let it not bother you.
00:28:49But then why don't you follow that advice and not let things bother you?
00:28:54I mean, I'm not complaining.
00:28:56I'm just, I'm just confused.
00:29:02Um, I guess it's just, uh, you know, it's just, just how a thing, how I am, just how
00:29:07I am, I guess.
00:29:09Well, that's not, that's not an answer, right?
00:29:12With all due respect that, I mean, if you had a, if you had a student who contradicted
00:29:16himself, right, you'd say, well, you have to resolve that contradiction, right?
00:29:20If you had a student who said, I don't know, CO2 is good and bad for global warming, you'd
00:29:27say, well, it kind of has to be one or the other, right?
00:29:30You, and if, if the kids, if the kids said, well, that's just how my mind is, or that's
00:29:34just how things work, would you accept that?
00:29:36That's just how I am?
00:29:42No.
00:29:43Right.
00:29:43So you can't just say, that's how I am.
00:29:45That doesn't resolve any contradiction, does it?
00:29:50Uh, no, I guess not.
00:29:52So what, what are you, what are you doing?
00:29:54I don't understand what's in this conversation.
00:29:56It's just, it feels like I'm in a, in a, in a, in a, in a laundry dryer, just being tumbled
00:30:00around.
00:30:02Like, when are you supposed to let things, when are you supposed to not get bothered by things?
00:30:06And when are you supposed to get bothered by things?
00:30:08I don't understand the difference.
00:30:09I'm having a hard time, uh, answering in a way that's not like truth serum.
00:30:23Just answer it.
00:30:24Yeah, but answer.
00:30:31Well, you know, you're a very, you're a very smart kid.
00:30:33Uh, I, I, I'm not sure how that answers my question.
00:30:42Right.
00:30:43If I said to you, dad, what does two and two make?
00:30:45And you said, but you're a very smart kid.
00:30:46Are you saying like, I should just figure it out for myself?
00:30:50Uh, well, yeah.
00:30:53Okay.
00:30:53But you're in your forties and I, it seems that you haven't figured it out because you
00:31:01tell me not to get bothered by somebody who pushes me to the ground, but you get bothered
00:31:05by pretty minor things at home.
00:31:07So if I'm a smart kid and I'm five and I'm supposed to figure it out, how is it that you
00:31:11haven't figured it out in your forties?
00:31:13How can you say that I should figure it out when you haven't?
00:31:17I mean, I'm asking you to do some parenting, dad.
00:31:21Like you got to give me some rules here.
00:31:22You got to give me some feedback.
00:31:24I mean, am I supposed to just parent myself?
00:31:26Am I supposed to just raise myself?
00:31:28I don't, I don't understand what's happening in this conversation.
00:31:31Um, I mean, you're supposed to give me some knowledge and wisdom, aren't you?
00:31:42Uh, well, you know, I try to do what I, what I can.
00:31:45Well, I, that's just words, dad, cause you're not doing much of anything right now.
00:31:48I mean, would you say it's kind of complicated to figure out when you should get mad and fight
00:31:52back and when you should rise above things?
00:31:56Yeah, I guess it's, uh, it's complicated.
00:31:59You guess.
00:32:00What do you mean?
00:32:00You don't know this?
00:32:03Yeah, it's, it's complicated.
00:32:05Okay.
00:32:06So stop guessing about things, you know, that's very confusing.
00:32:08Okay.
00:32:08So it is complicated.
00:32:10So, uh, have you got it all figured out in your forties?
00:32:14Have you got it all figured out when you should get mad and when you should let things go?
00:32:20Uh, no, I don't.
00:32:22So dad, what the hell?
00:32:24Why would you tell me at the age of five to figure out something you in your forties haven't figured out?
00:32:32Does that not seem weird to you?
00:32:33Like if, if you haven't figured out quantum mechanics or quantum physics or something, would you say to your kid at the age of five, you figure it out?
00:32:41Uh, well, you seem like you're pretty good at figuring things out.
00:32:49You're not answering my question.
00:32:52That's kind of rude.
00:32:53Uh, well, no, I, um, I don't think I'd expect you to figure out quantum mechanics.
00:33:00Okay, so if you haven't figured out when to get mad and when to let things go in your forties, is it fair to expect me at the age of five to figure that out?
00:33:11Uh, no.
00:33:12So what are you doing?
00:33:13I don't understand this interaction.
00:33:15This is all just like weird fog and confusion.
00:33:20Oh, I get it.
00:33:21I know what's happening.
00:33:24Oh, dad.
00:33:26That's very cunning.
00:33:28Oh, you're good.
00:33:28I mean, I'm happy to hear your answer, but I think I know what it is.
00:33:37Uh, go ahead.
00:33:38Well, you don't want to give me a rule about when I should get mad and when I should let things go, because then you'd be bound by that rule and you wouldn't be able to be Mr. Graftgy Pants all day.
00:33:55Yeah, I guess it would be, uh, it wouldn't be very, uh,
00:33:58it would be kind of hypocritical, I mean, would it be?
00:34:01Right, so you don't want to define any rule.
00:34:03It's kind of like American governments or all the governments around the world.
00:34:06They, many years ago, they tried to come up with a definition of terrorism, but they couldn't come up with one that didn't include all of their foreign policy.
00:34:12Again, I'm not speaking like a five-year-old.
00:34:14But, yeah, so you don't want to define rules because then you'll be subjected to them.
00:34:19And so you're just giving me all of this fog and nonsense, right?
00:34:25But, uh, that makes sense.
00:34:27So do you think that's good parenting?
00:34:32Um, no, I guess not.
00:34:34So, Dad, I don't understand all of this fog.
00:34:39Like, you guess, you think, maybe, blah, blah, blah, right?
00:34:41I mean, when you get mad, things are kind of absolute, right?
00:34:46Someone did you wrong, you're mad, you're upset, you're grouchy, right?
00:34:50You storm around, you snarl.
00:34:52Now, so, is it or is it not good parenting to not impose, like, not have rules for good conduct for your kids for fear that they might ask you to fulfill them?
00:35:11Um, yeah, I guess, I guess that's not good.
00:35:14See, again, with the I guess, well, what is going on?
00:35:17Maybe, I think, I guess, possibly, I mean, this is all just a bunch of foggy nonsense.
00:35:24Like, is it or is it not good parenting?
00:35:29It's not good parenting.
00:35:30So why would you not do good parenting?
00:35:38Because it's easier.
00:35:40Well, it's easier for you.
00:35:42It's way harder for me.
00:35:44Do you know how terrified I was, Dad, to come up and talk to you about this?
00:35:47Uh, no, I'm not sure.
00:35:54I don't know.
00:35:55Well, I was terrified that exactly what has happened would happen, which is that you just kind of dodge and weave and duck and make things up and not answer my questions and be all vague and, right?
00:36:09Not give me any parenting or feedback.
00:36:14Mm-hmm.
00:36:14Like, I can't think of useful things that you've told me as your son to help me out there in the world.
00:36:21And you don't really spend much time with me and you don't really play with me too much.
00:36:26So, I mean, how, I mean, let me ask you this, right?
00:36:30How would you rate yourself as a dad from one to ten?
00:36:37Maybe like a five.
00:36:38So, 50% of the time, you do good parenting?
00:36:45Uh, yeah, I think so.
00:36:47Okay.
00:36:48So, if I told you that, I mean, I just told you that I can't really think of any particular rules or feedback that you've given me that's helpful in the world, particularly the world of other kids or social life or whatever.
00:36:57If I say I can't remember one and you say, no, about 50% of the time I give you great advice, you can see a difference, right?
00:37:07Uh, yeah, well, like, um, we have like a nice house and, um...
00:37:11No, no, but that's not parenting, that's not providing.
00:37:13I mean, the government provides for people that doesn't pay for them, right?
00:37:18It doesn't, sorry, it doesn't pay for them, it pays for them, it doesn't parent them, right?
00:37:23So, providing money, providing a house, uh, that's not parenting.
00:37:29I mean, to take a silly extreme, uh, prisons and gulags provide food and shelter, but nobody thinks that that's a benevolent or positive situation, right?
00:37:39Well, they don't provide very good shelter.
00:37:45Right, I get that.
00:37:47But, I mean, most parents throughout human history didn't provide very good shelter relative to a modern prison, right?
00:37:53At least a modern prison has air conditioning and soap and showers, right?
00:37:56Most people throughout human history, most parents didn't provide that, but we wouldn't call them bad parents if they gave good advice and were really connected with and cared about their kids more, right?
00:38:07Right.
00:38:07Right.
00:38:09And, and you providing is you being a way, right?
00:38:16You have to be a way to provide.
00:38:18And there's nothing wrong with that, I guess that's part of being a parent, but it's not the same as being present.
00:38:24Okay, like, when was the last time you and I spent a day together doing stuff?
00:38:34Um, yeah.
00:38:39Um, this is at five, H5?
00:38:43Um, yeah.
00:38:47Uh, well, I took you to the, um, the Arboretum that one day.
00:38:52Okay, so that's once, when else?
00:38:57Um.
00:38:58Well, I take you to your, uh, your sports every weekend.
00:39:05Well, that's not you and I spending time together.
00:39:07That's like, say, you're going on vacation with the guy who drives you to the airport.
00:39:11That's not, that's not it, right?
00:39:12What else?
00:39:13Um, we, uh, we go for, you know, walks and stuff sometimes.
00:39:26Okay, how often, how often a month do we go for walks where we have good conversations?
00:39:33Good conversations?
00:39:34Um, never, but, um.
00:39:37Well, what do you do on these weekends?
00:39:39Uh, we just, um, I, I would have roleplay.
00:39:47I found the walks really boring.
00:39:48I didn't like going on walks or anything like that.
00:39:49Was he just, like, pointing out animals and plants or, like, silent or what?
00:39:55Um, like, he, at the college, they had an Arboretum.
00:39:59Um, with, like, uh, I guess they did, like, uh, wildlife stuff.
00:40:03And maybe they'd point out, like, wildlife or this kind of thing, but I found that pretty boring.
00:40:07Um, we would maybe go on walks, and I hated going on walks.
00:40:11I like walking now, but, um, he liked walking a lot, but I hated it because it was, it was so boring.
00:40:16Um, we never had, you know, meaningful conversations.
00:40:17But what would happen on the walks?
00:40:19What would he, would he say?
00:40:20Anything?
00:40:24We might talk about, if we talked about anything, it would be about sports.
00:40:27Um, but apart from that, yeah, pretty much...
00:40:33Pretty much, almost nothing.
00:40:35Okay, so he didn't inquire in his mind as to what would be most enjoyable for you and try and fulfill that, right?
00:40:41No, no, of course not.
00:40:42So let's jump back in.
00:40:43Um, okay, when was the last time we had a good, long conversation about things?
00:40:52Uh, I can't remember.
00:40:58Okay, so then you're not really doing much, if any.
00:41:03Parenting, right?
00:41:06Well, I guess by, uh, by your definition, no.
00:41:11Well, that's kind of Weasley, right?
00:41:14I mean, do you not think that it's good parenting as a whole to have interesting conversations, like spend time together, play together, and have conversations that are interesting and enjoyable for your children?
00:41:23Uh, well, my parents kind of just, uh, let me, uh, let me roam free and, um, didn't have too many conversations with them.
00:41:37Okay, and did you think, did you prefer that to having interesting and enjoyable and connected conversations with your parents?
00:41:45Well, I think I had a pretty good childhood.
00:41:53Sorry, you had a what?
00:41:54I had a, I had a good childhood, I think.
00:41:57Yeah, but you didn't answer my question.
00:41:59Again, kind of rude, right?
00:42:01Do you remember what my question was, Dad?
00:42:02Um, did, uh, my parents have, uh, or would I prefer it if they had?
00:42:10Yeah, would you have preferred it if you'd had connected and enjoyable conversations with your parents?
00:42:13Um, yeah, well, I, I would, um, I would like to, uh, you know, I've talked about how I would like to be able to talk to my mom again.
00:42:24Uh, she died when, um, before I was born, so he would talk about that sometime.
00:42:28Yeah, that's not my question, though.
00:42:30And I'm sorry about your dead mom, of course, but that's still not my question.
00:42:36Um, yeah, I guess, I guess that would have been nice.
00:42:39Okay, so it would have been better for you if you'd had more enjoyable or intimate conversations with your parents, right?
00:42:52Uh, yes.
00:42:53Okay, so if that's something that's missing for you, then shouldn't you want to provide that for me?
00:43:05Yeah, I guess I, um, I'm just kind of a quiet person.
00:43:07Um, sorry, you guess?
00:43:10What does that mean again?
00:43:11You understand that five-year-old kids can't handle variability of that kind, right?
00:43:16They can't say, well, I guess means 35.7% agreement, right?
00:43:22High degrees of variability for kids are completely incomprehensible.
00:43:27You know, if you say to a five-year-old, you know, there's a 39% chance of rain tomorrow, do you know, do they know what that means?
00:43:32Um, no, I don't, I don't think they do.
00:43:38Right, so, so stop giving me all these variables, right?
00:43:42I guess maybe a little whatever, right?
00:43:46That's, that's age-inappropriate, to put it mildly.
00:43:49Yes, it would be better.
00:43:51So, you said that you are just a, um, you are just a quiet person?
00:44:00Uh, yes.
00:44:01So, you, do you just mime things when you're teaching your students?
00:44:05I don't understand, but I mean, don't you fill the whole room with your voice when you're teaching your students?
00:44:11Yes, I do.
00:44:13So, you understand that's a little confusing?
00:44:15Yes.
00:44:21So, how, how, how do I, let me, let me step you through the next part of parenting, Dad.
00:44:32How do I resolve this confusion when you say, I'm a quiet person, but you're also a public speaker?
00:44:37Well, I guess, well, I, um, uh, a lot of my, my social energy, um, is used up at, at school, and I, I like to unwind when I, when I come home.
00:44:57So, you care more about providing for the needs of your students than you need your children?
00:45:02Well, that's a higher priority, right?
00:45:04Uh, well, uh, they pay me, so.
00:45:10Okay, so you're following the economics, and since your students pay you, they're worth putting energy into, but your children don't pay you, and therefore, um, they get much less of your energy, right?
00:45:30Uh, yes.
00:45:31Now, do you think that's good parenting to say, I don't spend much energy on my children because they don't pay me money?
00:45:39I mean, does that seem like, I mean, do you hear it yourself?
00:45:42Does this, does this seem like the way to go?
00:45:47Uh, well, you know, we, uh, we do other stuff together.
00:45:56Okay, Dad, I'm really starting to get pissed off here.
00:46:02Like, seriously.
00:46:05You, you keep ignoring my questions.
00:46:12Would you accept that from your students?
00:46:13You ask them a question, and they just, they go on a tangent and won't answer it?
00:46:21Uh, no.
00:46:22Well, right, so this is more hypocrisy, right?
00:46:26You wouldn't accept it from other people, but you do it yourself.
00:46:35I mean, that's kind of terrible, isn't it?
00:46:38To give yourself permission to do things you'd find completely unacceptable in others.
00:46:43Uh.
00:46:52Um, well.
00:47:04Yeah, he would probably just, you know, um, do another, uh, tangent or something.
00:47:09It would be like, go on.
00:47:09And then I would say, Dad, you're still not answering my question.
00:47:12You know, like, I, at the age of five, I shouldn't have to teach you about basic politeness.
00:47:21But basic politeness goes something like this.
00:47:23If someone answers you, uh, asks you a question, you either answer it or tell the person you're
00:47:28not going to answer it.
00:47:29You don't pretend they didn't say anything or just go on some tangent of your own.
00:47:33Would you agree that that's sort of basic politeness?
00:47:36Uh, yes.
00:47:38Okay, so why are you being rude to your kid?
00:47:42Well, I guess I can.
00:47:50Right.
00:47:51And how dare you, how dare you say to me that I matter less to you as your child, as your
00:47:56son, because I don't pay you money.
00:48:09Why become a father then?
00:48:10I mean, that's kind of, I mean, it's a big confusion for me as a whole dad, just so you
00:48:14know, like, why become a father if you don't really seem to enjoy spending time with your
00:48:19kids?
00:48:20And then you say, well, I, I, I'd enjoy spending time with you more if you paid me.
00:48:24I mean, that's wild.
00:48:35Can you imagine mom charging you, uh, 15 bucks for a hug or 20 bucks for a kiss or something
00:48:44like that?
00:48:44Can you imagine?
00:48:44She said, well, you know, I'd be more affectionate if you paid me.
00:48:49Wouldn't that kind of make mom a prostitute?
00:48:56Um, yeah, that wouldn't be very nice.
00:48:58So why, why do you think you have, why do you think you give yourself permission to say
00:49:08these absolutely horrendous things to me?
00:49:11Like you'd have more value to me if you paid me to be your father, if you paid me, if I,
00:49:17if you had money.
00:49:18I mean, do you think that's nice to hear given that I am five and don't have money?
00:49:30Uh, no.
00:49:33I mean, you get that that's going to stick in my head for the rest of my life, right?
00:49:39Do you, I mean, do you have any idea about that kind of stuff?
00:49:41Like the stuff that you say that I'll, I'll remember for the rest of my life.
00:49:45You said, you telling me that.
00:49:46Uh, one second.
00:49:48My wife is just calling me.
00:49:50I'll be right back.
00:50:01Okay.
00:50:01I'm back.
00:50:03No problem.
00:50:05So, yeah, cause it's interesting, dad.
00:50:07I'll just tell you like, so you're going to get old, right?
00:50:09And maybe you'll want me to take care of you when you get old, right?
00:50:12I mean, that's kind of the deal, right?
00:50:15Uh, yeah.
00:50:15Now, do you think if I say to you, well, you know, I mean, I might be interested in taking
00:50:22care of you, but the problem is you can't pay me.
00:50:28Would you think that's reasonable?
00:50:32Sorry, can you repeat that?
00:50:34Sure.
00:50:34So, dad, when you get old, you're going to want me to take care of you, right?
00:50:37Maybe take you in or, or help you, um, with your expenses or healthcare or drive you to
00:50:43the doctor or things like that, right?
00:50:45Mm-hmm.
00:50:46Now, do you think, uh, if I were to say to you, uh, no, I'm not going to do any of that,
00:50:50dad, cause you can't pay me.
00:50:52Um, $5,000 a month to do that.
00:51:01Um, would, would you think that's reasonable?
00:51:06Uh, well, you'd get, uh, you get your inheritance and stuff.
00:51:09So I kind of would pay you.
00:51:11Yeah.
00:51:11But let's say for some reason you didn't have money, you know, like I don't have at the
00:51:17age of five, let's say for some reason you didn't get money.
00:51:20Or are you saying that the only reason I would take care of you is to get a hold of your money
00:51:24that you'd have to bribe me to want to take care of you, that I wouldn't do it out of any
00:51:34care or affection towards you.
00:51:35I would only do it for the money, like a whore.
00:51:43Yeah, it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be very nice.
00:51:48It wouldn't be very nice.
00:51:50You understand that that's just more fog, right?
00:51:57Right.
00:51:58I mean, if, if, if some father said to you, really good parenting
00:52:04is not paying attention to your five-year-old because he can't pay you for your time, would
00:52:12you agree with that?
00:52:13Or would you think that guy was kind of a monster?
00:52:18Uh, kind of a monster.
00:52:19So, you get that you're kind of being a monster, right?
00:52:29Yeah.
00:52:31So, what do you, and you say you had a good childhood, does a good childhood produce this
00:52:35kind of mentality?
00:52:39Uh, no.
00:52:39So, basically, dad, all you've been doing to me is lying.
00:52:49Lying, and lying, and lying, and lying, and lying.
00:52:53Oh, you'll be able to figure it out, son, even though I haven't been able to figure it out.
00:52:56Oh, you should just not let it bother you, though I let everything bother me.
00:52:59Oh, I had a great childhood, but you didn't have a great childhood.
00:53:02Oh, I'm just a, a quiet man, even though I'm a public speaker and lecturer.
00:53:06Next thing you're going to do is you're going to tell me, oh, I don't have time, although
00:53:11you probably work only 10 to 15 hours a week, right?
00:53:14She's going to lie to me.
00:53:16So, do you get how much you lie, dad?
00:53:21Uh, a lot, yeah.
00:53:22Yeah.
00:53:24Yeah.
00:53:26And that's why I was terrified to come and talk to you, dad.
00:53:29Right?
00:53:30Because I didn't want to see just kind of what a filthy liar you are.
00:53:36That you just make up anything in the moment to get away with not having to answer any
00:53:43difficult questions or have any reasonable standards or actually be asked to pay time,
00:53:50care, attention, and provide affection towards your children.
00:53:56Quick question, dad.
00:53:59After this conversation, just out of curiosity, do you still give yourself a 5 out of 10?
00:54:06Uh, I'd give myself a, a 0.
00:54:13So, the 5 out of 10 was also a what?
00:54:17A lie.
00:54:18A lie.
00:54:21A lie.
00:54:24Why do you think you lie all the time?
00:54:26Um, because if I tell the truth, I'll realize how miserable I am.
00:54:43Oh, not miserable.
00:54:47That's kind of selfish, dad.
00:54:49Pretty narcissistic, in my humble opinion.
00:54:52Why do you lie all the time?
00:54:53It's not about you.
00:54:59Um, I realize how miserable you are.
00:55:02That's right.
00:55:02You'd realize how miserable your laziness and indetention is making others feel, particularly
00:55:08your helpless children who never chose you as a father.
00:55:13Right?
00:55:13You'd realize just how selfish you are and how little love you have for the children
00:55:20you chose to create and keep in the house.
00:55:27Yeah, it would be like, uh, it would be like hell.
00:55:29Yeah, I'm afraid we're now not in the 5 or the 0, but in the minus territory, right?
00:55:35Yep.
00:55:35So why do you have such a over-tanned raising of a heart, right?
00:55:47Why, why are you so cold that you need to be paid for any kind of love or attention?
00:56:00Um, I don't know much about his childhood.
00:56:13Um, so, uh, I'm not really sure.
00:56:21Well, the answer would be that nobody cared for or invested in him, which is why he responds
00:56:27to power as a professor rather than love as a father.
00:56:32Yep.
00:56:32Right?
00:56:32We, we get love or we want power, which is why those who tend to be the most interested
00:56:38in power or obsessed with power over others tend to be those who are the least loved or
00:56:45the most cruelly treated as children.
00:56:51So, dad, how do we fix this?
00:56:57I mean, based upon the assumption, which is valid and fair, that I'm not going to become
00:57:02a millionaire who can pay you a hundred bucks to want to spend time with me.
00:57:07Um, well, I guess I should, uh, I should apologize to you and go to therapy.
00:57:21Yeah.
00:57:21See, he knows.
00:57:23He knows.
00:57:24Okay.
00:57:25I think we can stop there unless you want to continue.
00:57:28And I just wanted to know what your thoughts, experiences, and impressions were of that role
00:57:33play, which was great, by the way.
00:57:34You did a great job.
00:57:34Thanks.
00:57:37Yeah.
00:57:37It's, um, he was such a, uh, he is him.
00:57:42He's still alive.
00:57:43I don't talk to him anymore, but, um, yeah, just a really, um, dull and, and not present
00:57:50person to say, to say the least.
00:57:53Um, and yeah, I think that is, that is the, the fear is that it would be such a tedious
00:58:02and revealing conversation to, to have.
00:58:05And I sort of avoided, um, having meaningful conversation with him, even when I was in
00:58:10the process of, you didn't avoid it.
00:58:12I could.
00:58:12Yeah.
00:58:12Yeah.
00:58:13That's like saying I avoided going to Mars.
00:58:15Right.
00:58:16Yeah.
00:58:16And I, I don't think the cover, I don't think conversation would have got, I think he might
00:58:20have gotten angry too.
00:58:22I think he might've, if he was in a certain mood, he would have, you know, had some sort
00:58:25of rage.
00:58:26Oh, you start to touch the essence of this narcissism.
00:58:29And I, of course, just using this as an amateur term, this, this bottom to selfishness, you
00:58:35start to touch the root of that.
00:58:36Oh man.
00:58:38Selfish people are so full of rage.
00:58:41It's like the, the gravity well of Jupiter.
00:58:46Yep.
00:58:49Yeah.
00:58:49And I did feel like, um, you know, sadness for, for myself at that age.
00:58:55And, um, yeah, just like, yeah, a lot of, a lot of rage myself too, just that, um, like
00:59:03I'm so engaged with my daughter and, and so interested in what, what she's doing and what
00:59:08she's, uh, thinking, whatever it is.
00:59:11I don't, I don't know yet.
00:59:11Cause she can't talk much, but, um, and it just really incomprehensible to me how, how
00:59:17he could just be like, so disengaged and.
00:59:18Well, he's, he's also, I mean, sorry to interrupt, but he's, he's, um, his, uh,
00:59:25selfish people cannot speak to children on the children's level.
00:59:33Hmm.
00:59:34Yeah.
00:59:35Right.
00:59:35Because that requires that they surrender their own particular thoughts, impressions, and preferences
00:59:39to that, which is best for the children or the child's.
00:59:43Right.
00:59:44So, um, but it was wild just how absolutely age inappropriate his language was.
00:59:55Did he ever meet your daughter?
00:59:59No.
01:00:00Okay.
01:00:01And what, um, sorry if we talked about this a decade ago, um, what was the story of, uh,
01:00:07you not seeing him?
01:00:10Um, no, I, um, I stopped talking to him in 2017.
01:00:19And then I kind of refood and then, um, defood again when, um, I got married.
01:00:28Oh yeah.
01:00:29That's like, uh, Hey, I should get back together with an ex-girlfriend.
01:00:32And then like three days later, you're like, Oh, that was the ex part.
01:00:36Yes.
01:00:37I remember now.
01:00:39Yeah.
01:00:39Yeah.
01:00:39It was, uh, it was kind of, it was kind of like that.
01:00:42Yeah.
01:00:42Um, yeah, so I stopped talking to him, um, just cause I, I was so miserable.
01:00:48Um, and then I started being happy again and then I talked to him again, I started being
01:00:52miserable again.
01:00:53So, um, yeah.
01:00:55So once I got married and I didn't, and my wife sort of gave me some feedback on, on my
01:01:00parents, both of them and, um, helped me to, to defoo again.
01:01:04So, well, I mean, I'm very sorry that it came to that, but I can completely understand
01:01:09the, um, can completely understand the impulse and the decision.
01:01:15So, okay.
01:01:16So let's get back to, to your daughter.
01:01:18Mm-hmm.
01:01:21Um, she is going to meet kids who are dysfunctional.
01:01:24She's going to meet adults who are dysfunctional.
01:01:27I mean, she's going to have to have a job and like, I, I'm sort of in a privileged position.
01:01:31Maybe this is the case with you as well.
01:01:32I'm in the privileged position.
01:01:33I don't have to have dysfunctional people in my life, but I didn't just leap into that
01:01:38out of nowhere.
01:01:39I had to work my way through the maze of dysfunctional people to, to get to where I
01:01:44am.
01:01:44And I assume that your daughter is going to have to, because if she's not exposed to
01:01:48dysfunctional people, then she's going to be exploited by them because she'll grow up
01:01:54without an understanding of them.
01:01:55Like, you know, like you have to have the virus for your immune system to recognize it
01:01:59and fight it.
01:01:59Right.
01:02:00And so the inoculation as kids is there's going to be dysfunctional people around.
01:02:03Dysfunctional kids and adults.
01:02:05And then they, they see that and they process that and then they can avoid them as adults.
01:02:10Does that make sense?
01:02:13Yes.
01:02:13Yeah.
01:02:13And I think if I had to sort of go down to the root of it, which could be correct or
01:02:20not.
01:02:21And obviously let me know what, what you think it's your life, not mine, but I think you
01:02:26are projecting your own isolation as a child onto your daughter.
01:02:30So what I mean by that is your big issue was not being pushed, but being unable to have
01:02:41a conversation with your parents about it.
01:02:44Right.
01:02:47Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
01:02:49Now your daughter, because you guys are close and connected and it's wonderful.
01:02:53Your daughter is going to be able to talk to you about negative experiences she has with
01:03:02other kids, right?
01:03:06Yes.
01:03:06Yeah.
01:03:06In fact, she will be eager to talk to you.
01:03:08She'll say, dad, dad, like this crazy thing happened.
01:03:10Right.
01:03:11And you will, you will talk for hours about these things.
01:03:18Yep.
01:03:20You're, you're, you're pausing there.
01:03:21Maybe you don't believe me.
01:03:23No, no, I, I do.
01:03:25You do.
01:03:25Okay.
01:03:25Sorry.
01:03:26I'm not trying to pick.
01:03:27I'm trying to make sure we're on the same page.
01:03:29Okay.
01:03:30No, I was having like a feeling like it's a nice thought to have long conversation with
01:03:33her about that.
01:03:34Now, here's the amazing thing is that because your daughter has an open line of communication
01:03:44with her parents, I'm sure it's both you and her mother, because your daughter has an
01:03:48open line of communication with her parents, she will not be picked on.
01:03:53The reason you were pushed, if malevolence was involved, the reason you were pushed, and
01:03:59I don't know how bullies know this, but they do.
01:04:02The reason why you were pushed was because you couldn't talk to your father about it.
01:04:05So, the fact that your daughter can talk to you about what's going on socially, she will
01:04:19not be picked on.
01:04:20I mean, she may be excluded.
01:04:22She may be ostracized, but she's not going to be picked on or aggressed against in that
01:04:25way.
01:04:25Because she's going to come and talk to you, and then maybe you go and talk to the
01:04:28kid, or maybe you go and talk to the parents and that kind of stuff, right?
01:04:32And they know that.
01:04:33I don't know how they know, but that's, we don't have to know, but they do.
01:04:37It's body language, it's eye contact, it's posture, it's something like that, right?
01:04:42So, it will not happen.
01:04:44What happened to you will not happen to your daughter.
01:04:50I mean, I'm as close to guaranteeing this as I can guarantee anything.
01:04:56Her experience is not your experience, will never be your experience.
01:05:01And if, I mean, and when she does see, she will see dysfunction, and you will talk about
01:05:06it, and maybe she'll experience some, and maybe it'll be, I don't know, ostracism or
01:05:10something like that, but you will talk about it, and you will get closer, and she will understand
01:05:15the world better, and it will be a positive experience.
01:05:20Her childhood is nothing like yours.
01:05:30And it will not be a negative experience for her to have a negative experience, because
01:05:36she will learn how to deal with it, she will talk it out, she will realize she's supportive,
01:05:40she will get good advice.
01:05:43The only negative experience as a child, fundamentally, is isolation.
01:05:48And she's not isolated, right?
01:05:50Yes.
01:05:53So, because you're connected, she cannot have negative experiences.
01:05:56She can have difficult hiccups in here and there, right?
01:05:58But she cannot have negative experiences, because you are connected with her, your wife is connected
01:06:03with her, and she knows that she's supported and loved and treasured, and she will be listened
01:06:07to, and she will receive good advice.
01:06:10And she's not at the mercy of what happens to kids who are separated from the adults and
01:06:17isolated, which is where the predation happens, right?
01:06:20I mean, the lions don't go for the baby zebra that's in and around the, like, in among the
01:06:26adults, right?
01:06:26It goes for the baby zebra that's separated.
01:06:31So don't, you know, and it's tough, right?
01:06:33But don't, don't mistake her childhood for yours.
01:06:35It's a, it's a whole different thing.
01:06:39Yeah.
01:06:39I like what you said about negative experiences not being negative experiences, because if
01:06:45I think about my own life, if someone's, like, an asshole to me at work or something,
01:06:50I almost find it funny now.
01:06:52Whereas if I was, like, closer to my childhood, it would have been to maybe, like, would have,
01:06:55like, sent me reeling or something.
01:06:56No, no.
01:06:57If you were still isolated.
01:07:00If you didn't have anyone you could talk to about it.
01:07:07If you were still isolated, and, of course, a lot of adults remain isolated, right?
01:07:11So you can go home, you can talk about it with your wife or your friends, maybe if you're
01:07:15close to your sister or whatever, right?
01:07:16But you have, at least with your wife, you can come home and talk about it, right?
01:07:19And you can get sympathy and feedback and compassion and all.
01:07:22So it's not a negative experience, because it actually reinforces the quality of the relationship
01:07:27you have with your wife, right?
01:07:29Right.
01:07:32Right.
01:07:33The only negative experience is isolation.
01:07:35Well, and, you know, I don't know, cancer and getting hit by a bus, but, you know, in
01:07:39general, like social stuff, it doesn't matter what happens to you.
01:07:44It only happens what matters to you if you're isolated, because we're social animals, right?
01:07:49So the purpose of corrupt people is to separate you from others, so that you, I mean, this
01:07:55was the whole purpose of deplatforming me, or is to separate me from others.
01:08:03So it is the separation and the isolation that breeds the anxiety.
01:08:08And I think you, seeing the dysfunction of your own, like the dysfunction that happened
01:08:13in your own childhood and feeling the anxiety and stress that came with that, you're saying,
01:08:17my gosh, that's going to happen to my daughter if she experiences negative things, but it
01:08:20won't, because she's close to you and close to her mother.
01:08:26So not only is she almost certain to never be targeted directly, but also whatever dysfunction
01:08:31she experiences or sees will bring you guys closer together as a family.
01:08:35So your stress was not because of the dysfunction.
01:08:39Your stress was because of the isolation, and she's not isolated.
01:08:43Right.
01:08:47And she will experience challenges because you're raising her rationally and peacefully,
01:08:56which means she's going to bump up against other kids, as you say, not raised rationally
01:08:59and peacefully.
01:09:00Now, just to sort of finish up here, for me, because I have an only child, right?
01:09:11So for me, when I would go to a playground or a play center or a swimming pool or wherever
01:09:16we would be going to play, I would not let her play alone.
01:09:24Yes.
01:09:25So I wear my track pants, I wear my comfy socks and my grippy socks, and we go in and
01:09:30we play together.
01:09:33And then, you know, I mean, I mentioned this many years ago when we would go to play centers
01:09:37when my daughter was quite little, I mean, it would be my daughter and I playing and
01:09:41all of the kids trailing after us, because not only was I an adult who was willing to
01:09:45play, but I was a male, which was even more rare, especially in the sort of daytime matriarchy
01:09:49of the phone addicts, right?
01:09:51And so we'd be there playing, and the kids would all want to come play with us, and because
01:09:56I would organize these games, and then my daughter would tell them, I just want to play with
01:09:59my dad.
01:10:00And, you know, I just told her honestly, I said, look, I'm going to have a tough time
01:10:04saying no to these kids.
01:10:06I mean, you know, and it bothered her, and I get that.
01:10:09And sometimes she would just say, no, no, kids, it's time for me to play with my dad,
01:10:13which was good.
01:10:14And she was stronger than me in that way, but that's fine.
01:10:17So you go in and you play, and because you're in there playing, your daughter will not be
01:10:25aggressed against.
01:10:25So, you know, you roll up your sleeves, you get in there, and you play.
01:10:31Now, when your daughter gets older, maybe she wants to go and play with her friends on
01:10:33her own, that's fine, because she's already got the foundation, right?
01:10:36And the connection remains.
01:10:39And because the connection remains, she's not going to get aggressed against.
01:10:43Again, maybe ostracized, blah, blah, blah.
01:10:45But so, with regards to the playground, you just, you go in and you play.
01:10:52Okay.
01:10:55And she will not be aggressed against, because you're there.
01:11:00So you would play with her the whole time, up until she had a strong preference to play
01:11:06by herself or with her friends?
01:11:07That's right.
01:11:09Okay.
01:11:09Absolutely.
01:11:10A hundred percent.
01:11:11I mean, am I going to just send my daughter?
01:11:14I mean, for me, it just seemed like the saddest and loneliest thing.
01:11:16Just send my daughter to go and play what?
01:11:19Do what?
01:11:20Climb around?
01:11:21No, we played.
01:11:23I mean, originally, it was Kitty Games, where she'd be a lost little kitten, and I'd have
01:11:26to rescue her.
01:11:27And then it was Dragon Games.
01:11:28She'd be a baby dragon.
01:11:29And then it was tag games.
01:11:31And then it was rounders.
01:11:32And then it was like, we would do this thing where we would climb around the outside of
01:11:37the playground.
01:11:40And we'd also do, like, can we time it?
01:11:42How fast can we do things?
01:11:44And, you know, various physical challenges.
01:11:46And, you know, we'd play with the other kids and all of that.
01:11:49And, yeah, I mean, as an only child, and I'm not saying your daughter is going to be an
01:11:54only child, but for my daughter, as an only child, we're going to just send her off to
01:11:57go and play on her own.
01:11:58That's the saddest thing.
01:11:59And what am I going to do there?
01:12:01Right?
01:12:01I mean, I'd much rather play than sit on the phone.
01:12:04It's more fun.
01:12:04And so when we would be in a pool, we would organize games like Marco Polo and so on.
01:12:12We did this Smorg Says, which is kind of like Simon Says, where, you know, Smorg absolutely
01:12:17forbids children to run at the pool pretending to be frogs jumping into lava, right?
01:12:23So then all the kids would be frogs jumping into lava or, you know, butterflies that flap
01:12:28and then get hit by an arrow.
01:12:29And, you know, so it's absolutely forbidden.
01:12:32And, you know, just to make jokes like that.
01:12:33And we could play half like an hour, just come up with crazy scenarios and have the
01:12:36kids act them out.
01:12:37There's another game called Colors.
01:12:40And anyway, so you just get the games going and everybody's really happy in those circumstances.
01:12:48And sometimes you meet kids that you want to see again and all of that.
01:12:50So, yeah, but just get in there and, you know, kids are not just supposed to be, certainly
01:12:57when they're young, they're not supposed to be just doing things on their own because
01:12:59they don't have the power of spontaneous self-organization at that age.
01:13:03So, yeah, they need their parents to organize things.
01:13:06Yeah.
01:13:06So it's somewhere between like the total free range kid and the helicopter parenting thing.
01:13:12It's somewhere.
01:13:12No, no.
01:13:13Helicopter parenting.
01:13:14Helicopter parenting is when you try to prevent your kids from experiencing anything negative
01:13:21and hyper-control them out of anxiety.
01:13:24It's not helicopter parenting to play with your kids.
01:13:27No, I'm saying it's somewhere in between those two things.
01:13:30No, no, because you're saying that one of the poles is helicopter parenting.
01:13:33Like when you start to play with your kids, you're moving towards helicopter parenting.
01:13:38That's not what it is.
01:13:40Okay.
01:13:41Playing with your kids is just enjoying their company and enjoying the games.
01:13:46It's not helicopter parenting to engage with your children.
01:13:49It's helicopter parenting to be anxious and say, don't do this and don't do that and you
01:13:53can't do this and be careful.
01:13:55And like, because of your own anxiety and desperately wanting your kids to never experience anything
01:14:01negative.
01:14:02That's helicopter parenting.
01:14:04Playing with your kids is nothing like that.
01:14:08Because it's not based on anxiety and it's not based upon hysterical overprotection.
01:14:14Right, right.
01:14:15It's enjoying their presence rather than trying to avoid negatives.
01:14:19Right.
01:14:20Right.
01:14:21Yeah.
01:14:21They call it bubble wrap parenting.
01:14:22Or your kids always have to be encased in bubble wrap and can never experience anything
01:14:26negative.
01:14:27And honestly, that tends to be maternal.
01:14:30Right.
01:14:31And there's nothing wrong with that when the kids are very little.
01:14:33Right.
01:14:33They can't exactly navigate stairs themselves when they're learning how to walk.
01:14:38So you absolutely have to protect the kids from negative experiences and then not.
01:14:45You know, my daughter, when she learned how to ride a bike, was very keen on riding her
01:14:48bike with no, like not touching the handlebars.
01:14:52Right.
01:14:52It made me kind of anxious.
01:14:54And, you know, anxiety is higher when you have just one kid as opposed to a bunch of
01:14:56backups.
01:14:58But, but of course I had to say, well, I, I did that when I was a kid and I didn't even
01:15:02wear a helmet because there were no helmets when I was a kid for biking.
01:15:05So she's better off than I am.
01:15:07And, and what am I supposed to do?
01:15:08I'm supposed to say, well, no, you can't do this.
01:15:09And again, you manage your own anxiety.
01:15:11You can't do this.
01:15:12You can't do that.
01:15:13You can't do the other.
01:15:13Well, then they just grow up fearful and anxious and less fun.
01:15:18And so it doesn't do them that much.
01:15:20Good.
01:15:21And so I want to say it's like, as you move towards spending more time and interacting
01:15:25more with your kids, I don't want you to have, well, I'm moving more towards helicopter
01:15:31parenting.
01:15:32And so I shouldn't do it too much.
01:15:34No, you, you cannot overplay with your children because when they want to stop playing, they'll,
01:15:40they'll tell you, right?
01:15:42If, if they're tired of the one in apps, like daddy, I'm tired of one in app or whatever.
01:15:45Right.
01:15:46And so you can't overplay with your children.
01:15:50I mean, when you're having fun with your wife, do you, do you want to tap out?
01:15:57No, no.
01:15:58Can you, can you have too much time with your wife?
01:16:01No.
01:16:02I mean, not really.
01:16:03I mean, I have to, you know, I went this morning to go and work more on my novel and then my
01:16:07wife joined me at the cafe and we had a nice hour long walk together and so on.
01:16:11So there's times when you have to do things apart from your wife, but I don't sit there
01:16:13and say, oh, I spend too much time with my wife.
01:16:16Like, so it's the same thing with, it's even more, more true with parents and particularly
01:16:20when there's no sibling to play with.
01:16:22Our kids love to play and you want to be the parent that they enjoy spending time with
01:16:26them playing.
01:16:26And it's not like the more you play with them, the more you're being a neurotic helicopter
01:16:34parent.
01:16:35That's, that's not, that's not the case.
01:16:36Like, it's sort of like saying, well, the more time I want to spend with my loving wife,
01:16:40the more, the closer I am to being a stalker.
01:16:42Like that's, that's not a thing, right?
01:16:45I mean, that's, that's not, that's not a thing.
01:16:47So that, that's why I was sort of pushing back.
01:16:50Like it's somewhere in between complete neglect and helicopter parenting.
01:16:54It's like, it's not even on that continuum at all.
01:16:57It's like saying, where does anarcho-capitalism sit in the left, right spectrum?
01:17:01It's like, it's not even on the spectrum.
01:17:02Like it's not, is it, is it more communist or more fascist?
01:17:05It's like, no, it's not, it's not on that spectrum at all.
01:17:09If that makes sense.
01:17:10Yeah.
01:17:10All right.
01:17:11Yeah.
01:17:11That makes sense.
01:17:13Anything else that you wanted to, to mention?
01:17:15How, how's the convo being for you?
01:17:16But nice to talk to you again after a cozy decade.
01:17:19Yeah.
01:17:20Yeah.
01:17:20It's great.
01:17:20I appreciate it.
01:17:21I was curious if you, do you remember this?
01:17:26You told the story, it was a long time ago, about how a kid at the playground said something
01:17:32mean to your daughter.
01:17:34And then you kind of sat down with the kid and had a long conversation with, with,
01:17:39I don't know if him or her.
01:17:42How do, how do you, how does that sort of, like you talk to the other kids and,
01:17:46and, and, uh, well, it's funny because it was actually the other kid who wanted to
01:17:49talk to me.
01:17:54Uh, because I think she recognized that I would be someone good to talk to about these
01:17:58things.
01:17:58Um, so, sorry, what was your question?
01:18:02I don't know if I have a question.
01:18:03Maybe, I don't know if you're, maybe you could retell that story or, um, uh, what, what
01:18:09we could, I could like learn from that.
01:18:11Well, yeah.
01:18:11I mean, so, yeah, I mean, a kid said something mean to me and, uh, I, you know, sorry to my
01:18:16daughter and I put a stop to that right away.
01:18:18I said, that's like, no, that's not, that's not going to happen.
01:18:20That's not what, that's not how we talk.
01:18:22And then she wanted to talk to me further and she wanted me to, so we went to a place,
01:18:29uh, and, and we talked about it and I just said, look, if you say mean things, nice people
01:18:35won't want to spend time with you.
01:18:36And the only people who'll want to spend time with you are other mean people.
01:18:39Then that's no, that's not going to be any fun for you at all.
01:18:42And so really work to try and be nice and be positive.
01:18:45And you can disagree with people and you can even get mad at people, with people, but
01:18:48you just can't call them names, right?
01:18:50That's, that's not fair.
01:18:51And that's not nice.
01:18:52Right.
01:18:52And, and I sympathize and, you know, you've got a, a very passionate and, you know, strong
01:18:55and what do they call strong emotions or strong emotions, strong feelings.
01:18:58I think feelings is more age appropriate.
01:19:00I think you've got strong feelings and I think that's great.
01:19:03And you've got to, you know, it's like having a horse that's runs really fast.
01:19:06You've got to figure out how to ride it well.
01:19:08And so, so yeah, we had a good, good conversation about it.
01:19:12And of course, it's not like that's some magic wand that can fix.
01:19:15All of these problems, but I think she appreciated it in the moment.
01:19:18And I think that certainly helped improve things for a while.
01:19:20But again, if there's something going on at home, that's going to generally undermine
01:19:24that as a whole.
01:19:25But yeah, you just, if you see something mean, it's just like, no, that, that, that's not
01:19:29going to happen.
01:19:29That's not, that's not how we're going to do it.
01:19:31That's not a thing.
01:19:33And then, um, you know, if the kid wants to talk, I mean, I was, I was happy to talk
01:19:37and then I also talked to the parents.
01:19:39Uh, but yeah, that's, you know, your kids have to see that, that, that's, that's not,
01:19:43that's not going to happen.
01:19:45Right.
01:19:45And, and it may not be that you have any control of the situation.
01:19:48It may be that you have to leave the park, right?
01:19:50Which is fine.
01:19:51But it's not like you're running away, right?
01:19:53I mean, if it's a forest fire or whatever it is, it's, you're not running away because
01:19:56you're a coward.
01:19:57So, uh, but, but then you have good conversations, uh, with your kid about like, how did you
01:20:02experience it?
01:20:03Why do you think that happened?
01:20:03And what are your thoughts?
01:20:05And you can have great conversations about all that kind of stuff and, um, get, get closer
01:20:10thereby.
01:20:10So your, your, your, your closest to your kids is not dependent upon the kindness of
01:20:14strangers.
01:20:14In fact, uh, unkindness of strangers can bring you closer.
01:20:20Right.
01:20:21Right.
01:20:22Right.
01:20:22Well, I, I really appreciate it, Stefan.
01:20:24It was nice talking to you.
01:20:25Um, we actually did speak, um, a little bit ago with me and my wife on a private call,
01:20:29but, um, so it's been a bit less than 10 years, but, uh, and how was the effect of the private
01:20:34call, uh, helpful and good for you guys?
01:20:36Uh, yeah, it was, it was great.
01:20:38Um, it's helped a lot and, um, yeah, we'll probably speak with you again sometime, uh,
01:20:43soon just to iron out a couple other things, but yeah, it's, it's been, it's been great
01:20:47so far.
01:20:47Appreciate it.
01:20:48Well, keep me posted about how things are going.
01:20:50Uh, nice to chat with you again.
01:20:51Do give my very best wishes to your wife and I will, uh, stop the call here.
01:20:55I've got a call in happening, uh, in a little bit.
01:20:58I've got to get some food.
01:20:59So my daughter's made these fantastic energy balls that, uh, I really like to snack on.
01:21:03So, all right.
01:21:04Thanks everyone so much.
01:21:05Freedomain.com slash donate to help out the show to, to, uh, really, I really do appreciate
01:21:09that.
01:21:09It's, uh, very important to me and, and I dare say to philosophy.
01:21:13So freedomain.com slash donate.
01:21:15Thanks everyone so much.
01:21:16Have a beautiful afternoon.
01:21:17We will talk to you Wednesday night.
01:21:19If not before.
01:21:20Bye.
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