- 1 year ago
In a powerful discussion on women's rights and safety, a call was made for systemic change over waiting for patriarchal mindsets to shift. 'We just need the right to walk safely without looking over our shoulders,' one speaker emphasised, highlighting that safety is a right, not a form of protection. The conversation revealed that women hold less than 2% of jobs in the burgeoning gig economy, a stark contrast to their participation in the traditional economy. The panel also explored how urban infrastructure and product design often have a male-as-norm bias, from the height of bus handrails to the lack of pockets in women's clothing. The dialogue touched upon the 'pink tax' in transportation, where trip-chaining results in higher travel costs for women. The need for an enabling environment, including better public transport and services, was stressed as crucial for women's economic and social participation.
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00:01Growing up, I have dreaded when I had to buy shoes.
00:06Sometimes it has taken me six months to find the right fit, especially for sport shoes.
00:14Even today, a lot of legacy brands don't acknowledge that women with large feet like I have exist.
00:23Even today, 2025.
00:25But here we have leaders with us who are trying to change that, who acknowledge that women come in different shapes, sizes, forms, have varied needs, and are offering products and services specially for them.
00:44So welcome all of you.
00:46So Kalpana here, she runs a social enterprise called Safety Pin, which is essentially a personal safety app wherein women can report which are the places that made them feel unsafe.
01:03So what that means is that if I am traveling, I can use that app and figure out which are the isolated spots, which are those unlit corners, and plan my travel accordingly.
01:17So Kalpana, as you were working with the government, you know, and safety is not really, I mean, it's not a service, it's not a product, but it is an enabler to be able to access the market, right?
01:32To even, as an enabler for even workforce participation.
01:39So how easy or difficult was it to get the stakeholders agree to this agenda?
01:48Thank you very much for having me here.
01:50And you're right, safety is not a product, safety is not a service, but safety is in the ether all around us.
01:59So unless we feel safe, we don't actually allow ourselves to access opportunities that are there for us.
02:09So it's the feeling of safety.
02:11And when we started this work, I've been working on the issues of safety for a long time, but I set up Safety Pin in 2013.
02:19And this was after that, the Nirbhaya rape case in Delhi.
02:22And there was a lot of consciousness about the fact of safety.
02:26But often safety gets reduced to security.
02:31So it is about CCTV cameras, it's about policing.
02:35But as women, we know that safety is something much broader and much deeper and much more elusive.
02:45What makes you feel safe?
02:46I think that is the kind of question we've been trying to answer to say,
02:50what are the different factors that would make you feel safe?
02:55Feel safe enough to be confident to access the opportunities that are there for you.
03:01I mean, we look around our cities, we know that women's workforce participation is very low.
03:06You go around and you look at parks.
03:08You'll see that parks are dominated by boys playing.
03:14You know, you don't find places that girls can play.
03:17You look at our streets, it is dominated by men.
03:22You look at all kinds of services.
03:25There are some, there are niche services that women are visible.
03:29But, you know, the panel before spoke about these glass ceilings.
03:35And I think if safety is restricting us from being equal participants.
03:40For example, now we have the gig economy.
03:42All of you have heard about the gig economy.
03:44It's the new place where jobs are coming up.
03:47Women have less than 2% of the jobs in the gig economy.
03:52In traditional economy, we know it's somewhere between 20 and 30%.
03:56It's growing, it's not growing.
03:58These are all statistics that are currently being discussed.
04:02When we try to go to the government.
04:04So, for individual women, we try to say that, okay, where do you feel unsafe?
04:08Can we put that data together?
04:10And as we got the data together, we went to the government and said,
04:15safety is a feeling.
04:16Safety is not just having a CCTV camera or a guard or a police.
04:22In fact, most women, we ask them, if something happens to you,
04:27would you go to the police?
04:29And most said no.
04:31So, actually having police is not the thing that's going to make us feel safe.
04:34Similarly, the CCTV camera is only effective after the crime is committed.
04:40It is not really a preventive step.
04:43So, we started looking at it and we unpacked it a little bit to say it includes things like
04:48infrastructure, which is lighting, walkability.
04:51It includes good public transport.
04:53It includes last mile connectivity.
04:55For example, in Delhi, everyone says the metro is safe.
04:58But you have to get back home from the metro.
05:00How do you ensure that last part of the journey is safe?
05:05Then what about services?
05:06So, for example, if you do face violence, how do we make sure that you get support?
05:14All the panic buttons in the world is not going to make you feel safe unless you know that
05:20when you press that panic button, you're going to get a response.
05:23So, I think, you know, we have to recognize that there are many elements to feeling safe
05:29and that feeling is what allows us to do things.
05:34If the feeling is what prevents people, prevent their daughters and wives and others,
05:39so safety has become an issue of protection.
05:43We have to take it back because safety is a right.
05:47We have the right to feel safe in our own cities, in our own country.
05:51We don't want to be protected.
05:52We don't need people looking over our shoulder for us.
05:56We just need the right to walk safely without looking over our shoulders.
06:00And I don't think men even realize this, that every single day as a woman,
06:08when you step out onto the streets, there is a little bit of hesitation, you know.
06:13So, your entire experience of life is different.
06:17And in this is some place, you certainly have to have women on the table to understand it
06:21because otherwise you get more and more safety apps and panic buttons
06:25because that's what men think will help us.
06:28But no, we want an enabling environment.
06:31We want the right to take a risk.
06:33I know maybe going out to the park is a risk, but why can't I take that risk?
06:37Men are allowed to take the risk.
06:39This protective mentality is what the governments have it, companies have it, families have it.
06:46And it comes from a place of love, no doubt.
06:49But it restricts us.
06:51And I think the time for restrictions is over.
06:54It's the time for freedom.
06:55So, Ayushi runs the brand FS Life, which a lot of you might know as Fable Street in its earlier avatar.
07:09It was also started because what I faced with shoes, she faced with workwear.
07:18She realized that most of the workwear in India was according to European sizes.
07:26But, and it was not meant for Indian bodies.
07:31And hence, there she is with FS Life.
07:35So, Ayushi, Kalpana touched upon this topic of men designing for women.
07:42And that was something that you also feel very passionate about.
07:48And so, how you started FS Life in 2016.
07:53I did a story on the missing she economy way back in 2020.
07:59So, in the last five, seven years, how far do you think we have come?
08:05And are legacy brands now acknowledging that women are 48% of the population
08:10and contribute to GDP and as a market that should be catered to?
08:16Or it's still new age entrepreneurs who are trying to bridge that gap?
08:24Very interesting question.
08:26And I think we will have diverse point of views around legacy brands.
08:29But let me take a step back.
08:31Structurally, if we look at history of India and in general,
08:35women, of course, are 48-49% of the population.
08:38So, women are 50% of the population.
08:42So, you need to solve for women.
08:45You know, as a matter of fact, this chair is for the height of a man.
08:49I can still rest my feet on the ground.
08:53So, this is because it's not designed by women.
08:58I think historically, the primary reason has been that business or work was men's domain.
09:07And as more and more women are entering the workforce, they are becoming entrepreneurs,
09:11they are leading the show, they are solving for themselves.
09:15And this is more anecdotal, but I'm sure Kanika would have more facts around it.
09:19But I think the reality is not about legacy brands as much as the people sitting there who are designing and solving for women.
09:28I think it's fully understood at this point in time that decision-making on majority of, you know, consumption and consumer-oriented aspects is done by women.
09:41The answers are not made for women.
09:43So, it is that you need women in the power, in these respective domains to be able to solve for them.
09:53Deep is an exception.
09:54He will tell his story.
09:55But I think that is the larger reality.
09:59Legacy organizations are recognizing it, but then they need women to design for women.
10:03And that is exactly what we saw at Fable Street.
10:05We've had, like, really funny journey because I come from a corporate world solving for women.
10:11And I'm like, women also need pockets in their clothes, right?
10:15We also carry phones.
10:16It's funny.
10:18You know, pants.
10:19Yes, and wallets.
10:21And, you know, like, but it is so much ingrained in this.
10:26Have you ever thought pants don't need front zippers for women?
10:30We don't need crotch for women.
10:32I mean, that's the reality.
10:34But, you know, people want it.
10:36People expect it because no one's solving for it.
10:39And it's the most unflattering place to have a zipper on.
10:44So, but that's the reality.
10:46So, I mean, and I think we are solving a very small fraction of it at Fable Street.
10:53Solving for sizing, solving for comfort of women.
10:55But at some point in time, I feel that probably the reason we will be successful is because we are addressing a need gap and solving for what people want and need.
11:06And if we have that, be it legacy brands or startups, we will be able to solve.
11:11Thanks, thanks, Ayushi.
11:15So, it should not always be women talking about women.
11:18We need allies, too, from men.
11:21And Deep here is one such ally for us.
11:24Deep is founder of feminine hygiene brand, Sirona.
11:27A lot of you would have heard about Peabuddy.
11:30He started it way back in 2015, almost a decade ago, that enables women to stand in pee.
11:39The problem was the public, the dirty public toilets.
11:45And here we are, and now he has a full-fledged femtech brand,
11:50having products around sexual wellness, menstrual hygiene, and personal safety.
11:57So, welcome, Deep.
12:00So, when you started in 2015, and two men talking about menstruation,
12:08enabling women to stand in pee, like, so, how was it?
12:13Two men talking to people.
12:16It was very interesting, actually.
12:19You know, I remember once this publication was doing a story on us,
12:23and I am a Delhi boy, right?
12:25I am a Delhi Punjabi boy.
12:26I believe I know all the cuss words that are there in the world.
12:28So, there was an English coverage, and there was a Hindi coverage.
12:31And the Hindi coverage said,
12:32that these men are giving the freedom of people to drink and drink, or something like that.
12:40And it had one of the most innovative ghalis ever.
12:44You know, they said,
12:44So, initially, it was more around issues.
12:59because for us even the gatekeepers were men right so I remember going to
13:04stores back then this online wasn't that big so I remember once taking it to a
13:08general trade outlet I said sir gande toilets hote hain. I surveyed it. This
13:14product will help women stand in peace so this will sell very well. He threw it at
13:18my face. He thought it was a joke. He thought I'm actually you know not
13:26serious about the product but I think that then over a period you know as the
13:31time passed it changed because women I think touchwood helped us a lot in
13:36spreading the word because problem was so deep that it didn't come from a man
13:40trying to solve it was more about this is the problem if I'm pregnant if I have
13:44arthritis I can't sit and stand this product helps me do this who cares who's
13:50behind it thank you so Kalpana you also spoke about you know a lot of these
14:02solutions around safety are designed by men right and we also last year had the
14:09RG car incident so when now you talk to stakeholders what are some of the safety
14:17solutions or if you can share some best examples around the states that you have
14:22worked with that really work and which are the ones and you have already given us
14:27examples of which don't so can you talk about inclusive building gender responsive
14:33cities what does that mean and why is it important thanks I really I think some of
14:39the issues that came up are so interesting and the fact that zips public
14:44toilets seats are all women's issues I mean like you know like when you get into a
14:49bus you're I mean I just want to add that when we have to hold that thing up
14:54there it's always a little bit higher than it than it is so I think the design all of
14:59design is has a male as norm you know I think as we look at cities so when we began
15:07our work we initially began with looking at how to get women to feel safer by
15:12sharing what is their experience now it's been about 12 years that safety pin has
15:17been in existence and we worked with cities across the country across the
15:21world and we realized that cities need to look at this as a holistic problem it is
15:28not there is no magic bullet or a single solution so of course lighting is
15:34important but lighting alone is not going to solve the problem good public
15:38transport is important so what we've been trying to say is that we came up
15:44with a framework called she rises which is on for responsive inclusive safe and
15:49equitable urban systems and the idea is that can we start looking at this as a
15:55systemic problem there are so many elements to why women are not able to be
16:02equal participants in our country I mean it's a simple ask it's it was it's there
16:08in our Constitution but we don't have it in reality and why don't we have it in
16:13reality because the enabling conditions so it is infrastructure at one basic
16:18level I mean a simple thing is if a street is well lit it is safer if public
16:25transport has more women using it it becomes safer so therefore the free bus fare is a
16:31positive step because more women are beginning to use it more women are able
16:35to go to work similarly good helplines are important housing Kanika talked about
16:42how do you enable women to work you have to provide all these things but over time
16:49we found that safety and safe mobility is defining you may provide a women a job
16:56you may even provide housing but if she doesn't feel safe if a family doesn't
17:02feel that she's going to be safe they will drop out they drop out for other
17:07reasons there is a whole issue of the care work I'm not getting into that I think
17:10that's another big area the way to look into but you know we were talking the
17:16earlier session about mindset change I actually after 25 years of working I have
17:22come to the conclusion that I cannot wait for patriarchy to go away for my life
17:28to change or for my daughter's life to change if a policeman if I go to a police
17:32officer police station and I want to give a complaint it is his simple duty to
17:38write down my complaint he may have some other patriarchal notions of what or what
17:43violence against women is but I don't think I'm not saying mindsets don't have to
17:48change but it becomes an excuse for why things haven't changed and mindsets will
17:53take time to change we have to work on it but simultaneously if we put in
17:57systems if we put in procedures if we put in non-negotiables saying that this is
18:04not acceptable this kind of we have posh the moment are the bill on sexual
18:10harassment key in the workplace came up workplace has changed I mean I'll give
18:14another simple thing when I started driving in India we never were seat belts
18:18there was no question of wearing a seat belt then suddenly it became a rule
18:21suddenly they find you now none of us get into a car without pulling a seat belt
18:26so it is possible to change behavior after all we are we are creatures of habit
18:33human beings so if you start saying this is not acceptable in the workplace it
18:37has become an issue right many it is being told in many many workplaces that this
18:42kind of behavior is unacceptable there are many many people working on these
18:46issues today so I think the the idea for cities and for governments is to build that
18:54enabling environment private sector has to do its own bit but I think really
18:58public space safety public transport and good services will go a very long way in
19:05enabling women to participate economically socially and politically I see young
19:11people from the parliament we know even in the rural areas for women to
19:15participate politically even in urban areas it's not easy and I think this is an
19:20important issue to take up as well thanks fashion is not always inclusive so
19:29can you talk about the work you are doing to ensure that your products work for women in
19:35their real lives the opening statement I used to make was the ideal body is not 36 26 36 which is
19:46what we were taught our entire lives and which is I think something I was chasing almost I'm 40 now I was
19:52chasing till 35 years of age so the reality is we are not mannequins we are not those ideal bodies
19:59in India and even globally I think women are diverse they come from different backgrounds they have
20:05different body shapes and sizes so you have to solve for them versus us trying to
20:11fit into clothes and I think that is the premise with which we have operated with
20:16the larger vision being it helps us become confident about ourselves we are otherwise
20:22fairly under confident we have all lived with imposter syndrome all our lives so that one uptick that
20:29you are looking nice and good helps you feel happy and confident about yourself and put your foot best foot
20:35forward in a professional world or wherever you go so that is the larger thought process and that is the
20:41thought process of inclusivity and building fashion so I actually don't call myself as a fashion
20:47entrepreneur I am a startup person coming from a professional background solving for women and
20:53that is the framing with which you operate and then of course there are more specifics in terms of
20:57now solving for women ensuring inclusivity in every shape and form we do trials we work with all types of
21:05women we design for comfort we test on real women and movement etc and that's how we build fashion for
21:13this there's a long way to go I think what we are right now chasing is actually acceptance and what's
21:19very interesting is when we when we look at women and we talk to women we are probably the only startup or
21:27apparel brand which is designing for women and solving that if you're a size X you will you can buy X and it'll fit
21:35you they're so used to solving for themselves on their own so if they see a model wearing a short dress
21:41they automatically assume that I am five to so this dress will be below me for me if the garment is very
21:48loose on the model they will automatically size down so that it will look fitted on me so you know
21:54everyone's just completely solving basis what they're seeing believing that's what the product would be as
21:59opposed to saying that this product would be for me and that's how we are trying to be inclusive and
22:05there are a lot of back-end technicalities org etc but it goes back to core of looking at the customer
22:12working backwards on what they need and then building a product and then eventually going
22:17through the communication channels to make them so we are on the last leg and that's the journey of
22:23scale for us interesting so deep a lot of public spaces a lot of elite elitist public spaces right
22:32whether it's airports hotels the way they place the products the toiletries also speak of gender bias
22:40how are you working to change that and do you want to also talk about how it comes across I mean
22:49because I'm not sure anyone of us noticed it till you brought it up in our conversation
22:54well I think the issue is that nobody is talking about it you know the business is such it's a BAU life
23:01so look at hotels for example I don't know last time when we'd go to a five star and we had to use
23:05but it's available right in in there for men there is of course there is razor is always there
23:11but but there's nothing around I mean they're not made keeping women travelers in mind
23:16so recently for instance we were talking to bloom hotels and they agreed we said whenever a woman
23:21checks in why do you not think about four five things that she might also need like if I'm a
23:25traveler I'll always have my razor right shoe shiner I'll carry it I know if I'm wearing formal shoes
23:31but if I'm a woman what if I get my periods what if I get pain you know what if there is a normal
23:37stain I end up staining the bed sheet you know can you make things available so we created a kit for
23:43them and luckily they bought into it so it's a mindset thing I think the more we talk the more
23:48we demand there are brands which are willing so now if you'll check into bloom hotels there'll be a
23:52nice serona branded kit that you'll get that will have a pad it'll have a pain patch a period pain
23:59patch it'll have a stain remover and all of that and similarly for if you see airport travel so we we
24:05spoke to the the Delhi Airport a few years ago and the mandate was that the tokenism of the pad
24:10available and we said here who are we to decide that it should be a pad right I mean there are
24:14globally four products available pad tampon liner cups so make everything available so first milestone
24:21what the first milestone was to fair you know get them to say fair enough okay let all of them be
24:25available but second was to say where will you place these products I said outside if they're inside
24:30you know you we just are saying there is something to be ashamed of right so the taboo breaks if it's
24:36right outside so that if if she wants to send a partner to go and get it if there's a boy walking
24:41with her with his father he can ask what are these products you know that's how it does so I mean those
24:46kind of things are happening it's it's it's slower but it's taking shape so but it's it's now happening
24:53because we are talking otherwise I don't think places were designed keeping these needs or these
24:59travelers in mind so yeah thank you until Kalpana ma'am makes all the places safe we have a pepper spray
25:10which I'm not too proud of but my way of solving problem is ki jab tak desh sudhar rai sudhar ega
25:15have a weapon as a father of two daughters I believe they should have a pepper spray always
25:19so unfortunate but it is one of the best sellers online empower is what it's called shameless sales plugin
25:26okay so I know time's up so we'll have one quick round of last question so um Kalpana if um so
25:34there's something called pink packs right and a lot of times it is women have to pay more for safer
25:42transport safer you know like so how does that impact their participation at work and how important
25:50is safety to keep women at work so the pink tax I'm glad you brought it up it's an interesting concept
25:56which many people don't know so we um data shows that women travel differently women move around
26:03differently they do what is known as trip chaining they may do more than one um they go out they drop
26:10the child at this bus stop they go to the work they're on the way back they go to the market they come
26:15back what the pink tax is saying is that they end up paying more because transport is designed in a
26:21way that each trip costs an amount longer trips actually cost less over time many short trips so
26:29the pink tax is that and we know that as it is women have less access to finances so the pink tax along
26:38with safety along with the whole lot of other factors ends up impacting women's ability to make
26:45choices very simple and plain I think that and that too when we all know that women usually pay 10 to 20
26:52percent less than men for the same job they do right yes so gender pay parity right yeah so um Ayushi
27:02you always speak about women deciding for women right and you also have a very diverse workforce
27:10so what helps you like in the earlier panel we have been speaking about include building inclusive
27:16workplaces so what helps you retain women leaders and help them grow first of all I'm very proud to say
27:27we are 65 percent women in our workforce and not women because they are in the creative fields but
27:33they are also in proper management and business oriented fields what results in retaining them is I think
27:44two folds a the senior leadership style which is empathetic nurturing and also demanding but it is not
27:54purely demanding and aggressive in the boardroom or the conversation and I think that's something
27:59that they empathize so there are women who are aspirational who have drive but believe that they
28:05are cared for and I think that's an important aspect of their journey I think that is one and the second I
28:11think which is very implicit is the number of women in leadership which becomes very easy therefore for
28:18the juniors for as role models to emulate and I think that's these are the two things that result in
28:24retention and actually we barely have two percent attrition across the organization rest of it is more
28:33by not by choice but by what we want and within that I think women are higher retained around this and
28:40finally it is the culture but which is true for all logs but eventually I think building a leadership style
28:46which is more conducive to women and having a lot more role models allows the other women to stand
28:52up and fight for the fact and they they have someone to see and look up to interesting thanks so deep I'll
29:01bring up the question around pink tax again with you your products are premium clean label clean clean
29:08ingredients but if you look at the pricing it's not mass but it's also not premium it's somewhere in between a
29:15little above mass I mean that's my observation I might be wrong but I mean am I right very affordable
29:21right affordable right but that's usually not the case when I look at personal care products for women
29:30right across segments was it deliberate what was the thought process and also what is I mean you in fact
29:38have a lot of patents for your products so which is that innovation that you're most proud of
29:43so yeah well I think the innovation is a big word but I think the product that I'm most proud of
29:49would be Peabody you know it helps us helped us redefine this category and continues to help a lot
29:55of women especially during medical conditions you know pregnancy arthritis so that's one as far as
30:02products are concerned I think you're as far as if you're able to solve a problem there are more
30:09than I mean consumers are very happy to pay the price as of today we do use a part of it for our
30:15foundation through which we help women who can't afford our products but I think we are very affordable
30:20yeah I mean in case of a menstrual cup for instance it would cost you maybe 300 bucks now 300 bucks over a
30:27pad might be more expensive but a menstrual cup can last you for five years you know it's reusable so when
30:33we see it from those lenses we believe we've kept it very very affordable Peabody most proud of
30:39thank you that was a very interesting panel I know we have I've also got a
30:43chit but we have overshot so thank you thanks a lot
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