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00:00I'm here to support you okay the purpose of this is to support you in the process
00:18of facing up to what happened to you it's about you telling me your experience and
00:26me bringing my knowledge and understanding of cults and spiritual abuse so we're not debunking
00:36personal faith that's not what this is about this is about debunking the cult from a psychological
00:44perspective and how spirituality and faith actually were used to control all of us need to understand
01:02the process of what we've been through in order not to repeat him I've seen it happen with others
01:09who've left cults they end up in a different cold how's that Sarah yeah how are you doing
01:19it's hard
01:24you must bring yourself to a new commitment and you shall know what it is to be on fire for your lord
01:47when the Jesus army marches to war their message is high pressure and hard line join the army or be
02:01damned it's yeah I said to pursue to the challenge and
02:04I want you I want you
02:31I want you I want you I want you to be mine
02:37surrender the middle part of you an awful power of sin learns there
02:58now we give our genitals Jesus
03:05now we give our genitals Jesus
03:12bug book is an unpretentious Northamptonshire village but the very English picture painted by its local church and congregation has been challenged by a local group of unorthodox Christians who have been
03:18now we give our genitals
03:20the very English picture painted by its local church and congregation has been challenged by a local group of unorthodox Christians
03:25they're talking in different tongues now that's a thing I never understood
03:32because you can't speak another language unless you're taught it
03:39singing
03:40singing
03:41singing
03:42singing
03:43singing
03:44singing
03:45singing
03:46at the top of the voices
03:48that's not being neighborly is it clapping hands and stamping feet and in and eight in and eight you'd never think it was a place of worship
03:55we've only got to look at them to see what type of people is encouraging here they're not the village people certainly
04:02back in the early 70s I had heard there was inverted commas something going on
04:09at this place called Bugbrook which was a little village near Northampton
04:16which was a little village near Northampton
04:20pastor of the chapel there
04:22has been a place of worship
04:24in and eight in and eight you'd never think it was a place of worship
04:26we've only got to look at them to see what type of people is encouraging here
04:28they're not the village people certainly
04:30back in the early 70s
04:32I had heard
04:34there was
04:35inverted commas
04:36something going on
04:37the master of the chapel there
04:39had established a church
04:42that was very very different
04:44it was a completely new form of Christianity
04:56becoming visible particularly in America
04:59at the time
05:01all centered around a much more vibrant form of worship
05:06there were people talking in tongues there
05:18and apparently they felt that they could actually feel God inside of them
05:27and I wanted to find out if this was true or not
05:40when I first started I mean I just saw it as a radical church you know
05:46it seemed like a good idea I suppose
05:56I mean in those days it was still quite a stigma to be a single mum
06:01I'd gone to some other churches and nobody had sort of spoken to me at all
06:12but when I first went to the chapel
06:16I'd got there a little bit late and they were already worshipping inside
06:20as I entered
06:23I don't know what it was whether it was Jesus
06:27but I just felt
06:29that this was where I was supposed to be
06:34come my brothers and sisters in the Lord
06:57the fullness of Jesus rightly belongs to us
07:00they've given me the wine to make my heart rejoice and the hope to make my faith to die
07:10I'd heard a lot about this person Noel Stanton
07:16that everybody was in awe of him
07:23you're our brother and sister in Jesus
07:25you belong with us in the family of the Lord
07:27Amen
07:28and that old world
07:30that old nature
07:32and all the world that was attaching to that old nature
07:35now dies
07:36Amen
07:37Noel
07:46I was conscripted into the Navy
07:50it was there that he became a Christian
07:54after that he started running his own stationary business in Bedford
08:02but he also at the same time became a lay pastor at Bugbrook
08:09Noel
08:11actually
08:12for a long time before the community started
08:15he was like a conventional Christian
08:18but then
08:21in the late 60s
08:23he was visited by God
08:25and he received the Holy Spirit
08:27it was very powerful
08:29it really profoundly affected him
08:31Jesus who said your Heavenly Father
08:36will give the Holy Spirit for those who ask him
08:41will give?
08:42oh yes
08:43I've proved it
08:44I've proved it
08:45four and a half years ago
08:47when I said Father
08:49according to that word of Jesus
08:51I ask you now to give me the Holy Spirit
08:54and in an overwhelming fashion
08:56he surely did
08:58when I encountered Noel for the first time
09:03he claimed that he was a prophet
09:06speaking God's will
09:10and he picked up his Bible
09:13and started slapping it
09:16I'm fed up of this weak-kneed
09:20lamby-pamby Christianity that's around us
09:24don't be so
09:26measly and feeble
09:29and then he said
09:30right brethren
09:31he said
09:32shall we make the earth tremble
09:34and everybody started to sing
09:39with full voice
09:51it really did feel as if the very walls and ceiling were vibrating
09:56it felt thunderous
10:02and
10:04by the end of the chorus
10:07I had my hand up in the air
10:10along with everybody else
10:12but of course
10:19I had
10:21no idea really
10:22that there was something
10:24extremely manipulative
10:26about
10:27all of this
10:30because
10:31from now on
10:32for all of us
10:33it wasn't just the case of
10:35going to church
10:36it was a case of
10:39belonging to church
10:41church
10:48so
10:49one thing I'm just going to say
10:51so important
10:52to really
10:53kind of
10:54use this C word
10:56call a cult a cult
10:58okay
10:59a cult
11:00exhibits great or excessive devotion
11:04to some person
11:06idea
11:07or thing
11:08no
11:09no
11:22was like revered when he said
11:24yeah yeah
11:25so he's the person
11:26no
11:27yeah
11:28yeah
11:29so it's a great group
11:30and we were devoted to him
11:31you were
11:32in his message
11:33yeah yeah
11:34yeah yeah
11:35that was a big focus
11:36wasn't it that whole kind of
11:37discipleship
11:38yeah
11:39discipleship
11:40yeah
11:41I even had a photo of Noel under my bed for ages
11:43so here we start ticking boxes
11:46dangerous leaders make important decisions about converts lives money dress personal possessions
11:54they cut themselves off either geographically or socially
12:00they perceive there's only one way forward
12:02all of that
12:03all of that
12:04is weird
12:05it's really weird
12:06that was Noel
12:07yeah
12:08he was
12:09exactly
12:10that basically
12:11yeah
12:13yeah it's fucking weird
12:15the lord has told us to move into a community
12:26to divide our possessions
12:28living in separate houses yes
12:30but belonging to one another as a true family
12:33loving one another caring for one another sharing with one another
12:37that's the way it's blessed
12:40it's powerful
12:42it's working
12:44it's beautiful
12:54in an attempt to return to the lifestyle practiced by the early church
12:58a small nucleus of people have given their homes and all personal wealth to the new community
13:07the money given in by all the members has been used to buy properties where community members live together
13:20do you actually miss the privacy that having your own home will give you?
13:25oh no not really
13:26we find that we have any privacy that we need
13:30when I moved in to new creation farm
13:34there was this real hum of excitement
13:37and
13:39almost immediately
13:41everything seemed
13:43different
13:46my mum
13:53she was trying to live in a way that she thought was
13:57the way God wanted us to live our lives
14:01and
14:03in a way
14:04I get it
14:11to begin with
14:12Max she was full of beans
14:14little bundle of joy she was
14:20this pretty farmhouse is home for about 20 community members
14:24parents
14:25children
14:26single people
14:27all live under the same roof
14:29there was loads about sheet fold I loved
14:33as kids
14:35it was an amazing place
14:37there was just fields
14:39that we could all go and run and play in
14:41and we used to go and pick goosebreeze together
14:47so it wasn't only bad stuff
14:48there was really cool stuff as well
14:50when you went into the community
14:56you're giving up your earthly aspirations really
15:00you know we would be living as the early Christians did
15:05so you shared things and had everything in common
15:08you just distributed them as people had need
15:11sounds totally innocent doesn't it
15:17to begin with everything seemed wonderful
15:23I just felt such a peace and it obviously attracted quite a lot of young people
15:31they all greeted me as
15:33they all greeted me as bro
15:35hi bro
15:37it's lovely to have you here
15:39I feel the same place for you bro
15:41I'll be doing that one
15:43I'll be doing that one
15:45it's like
15:46if you know you're going to live with someone for eternity
15:49yeah
15:50if you know that
15:51forever
15:52they're going to be loving you for eternity
15:54and you might as well just
15:56just start
15:57start realising that now
15:58beautiful
15:59to describe it as an idyllic dreamy kind of atmosphere
16:06is absolutely spot on
16:10it's almost like going on a trip
16:14the whole vision and the whole idea was one that
16:18was very separate from the world
16:20it was genuinely 100% like a fairy tale
16:23it was just beautiful
16:29Mags and me and mum moved in when I was about eight
16:40I was so excited to sheepfold
16:43it was like this huge house
16:46honestly I just thought this was like being a princess in a castle
16:50there were lots of other families moving in as well
16:53so you've got kids to play with all the time
16:56but the first thing that I remember really well
17:01we'd moved all our stuff
17:02and I was like
17:03oh mum where are all my toys?
17:05because I'd got this
17:07you know
17:08I was quite obsessed with my dolls
17:11and my rather nice little dolls house that I had
17:15and mum said
17:19well I've given all your toys away
17:21because we don't have toys in the community
17:25they'd just gone
17:26they hadn't
17:27you know there was no warning
17:28no nothing
17:29they'd just gone
17:30I mean for me it wasn't anything weird
17:33because it was all I ever knew
17:35but there was loads of it
17:37it was really not whatever normal is
17:40it's like far from normal
17:44we moved in just before my 8th birthday
17:57my parents wanted to be around other Christians
18:01where we can all grow up together in a morally conscious environment
18:06committing everything that we had as a family to the church
18:13and you don't understand that as a child
18:17we moved into the house
18:21next door by a couple of fields to where Noel lived
18:25so we were very tightly overseen by Noel
18:32you could feel his influence actually
18:36he didn't need to be there
18:38he used to preach a lot about spiritual family
18:43that was what was important
18:44not the natural family
18:45because the natural family
18:46I suppose were your link to your old self
18:52and that was a big no-no
19:03so you didn't have family time really
19:06you didn't just have time with your mum
19:09it's a very extreme environment to grow up in
19:16it was dangerous actually when you think about it
19:24you know as a child
19:26it's stripping a person away from everything
19:30you need the support
19:32that's so true like
19:34yeah
19:35yeah
19:36my mum wasn't around
19:38so it was cutting you off from family
19:41and not
19:42and the family being the church
19:43rather than being
19:45me, my mum and my sister
19:47poor Todd
19:49you know
19:50never used to like tea when I was little
19:52but Jesus makes you less fussy doesn't he?
19:54he does
19:55the leadership of the community is all male
19:58an elder lives in each community home
20:01and all problems and decisions are shared with him
20:04elders are to be found in all our houses
20:07and our households
20:09they are to be shepherds of the flock of Christ
20:11they are the ministers of the flock of Christ
20:14all right
20:21in any situation
20:23living together in a house
20:24you have got to have people who sort out things
20:27I was initially made what's called a leading serving brother
20:31LSB
20:32which always amused me because of my electronics background
20:35in electronics
20:37LSB stands for least significant bit
20:39so
20:41all right
20:42there's something of a need for humility
20:45and being called an LSB
20:47sort of
20:48it clicked with me
20:49it's easy to see only the roots
21:02but
21:04in the early days
21:05Noel had very much a vision for
21:08being God's people
21:10if Noel had had a particular topic that he was speaking about that week
21:22everybody
21:23every brother would be on that thing
21:26no sugar
21:27no one's to have sugar
21:28sugar's the devil
21:29and not being able to refrain from doing something's the devil
21:33and you have to be able to control yourself
21:35so no sugar anybody
21:37one of the things we realised
21:40we didn't want to have large amounts of bits and pieces
21:43and we didn't want to get distracted by things like television
21:46so we didn't have televisions
21:47and we didn't have radios
21:49a packed lunch is worldly
21:51wearing fashionable clothes is worldly
21:54a bag of crisps
21:56how worldly
21:57and worldly stuff
22:00wasn't to be included or invited in
22:02because that was inviting the devil in
22:05literally
22:07inviting the devil in
22:15the battle is between Satan and God
22:18Satan and Jesus
22:20what do you mean?
22:22I mean Satan is working in everybody
22:24he's not
22:25he's working in the world
22:28and
22:29and
22:30and
22:31I mean you can tell
22:32just look at the state of the place
22:40every single night
22:41sat in a room like this
22:42somebody would be playing guitar
22:44somebody else would be
22:45speaking in tongues
22:47and there would be people who looked possessed
22:51and I remember these brothers all coming and like laying hands on them
22:57everybody's speaking in tongues really louder
23:00and Noel
23:02yelling
23:03the devil
23:09Exorcisms were quite frequent
23:11Noel was one of these people who would quite easily sort of point out a demon in somebody
23:17people would throw up some people would convulse on the floor
23:21you don't know what it is
23:24and you're trying to rationalise it as a child
23:38One day
23:40I was drawing
23:42stick people with willies and boobs
23:44willies and boobs
23:45I've no idea why
23:46it's just something you do as a child sometimes
23:49and it was deemed that I had an unclean spirit
23:54and
23:55How old were you?
23:56Seven
23:57I can remember it clearly
24:08The elder of our household
24:10he used to put his hand
24:12his, my head
24:13used to fit perfectly into his hand
24:15and he
24:16just used to sort of push down on it
24:18so I couldn't move
24:22It was really frightening
24:24I don't actually want to talk about that too much
24:40What is an introject?
24:42An introject
24:44is a belief or behaviour
24:46which you've taken into yourself
24:49that remains sitting in your psychological system
24:52like a lump of untewed and undigested food in your gut
24:59My thing that stuck with me is
25:02I'm possessed
25:03you know, that I've got a demonic spirit in me
25:06I'm the devil that's
25:07taking everybody's eye off
25:08what they should be concentrating on
25:10and
25:11you know, that needs to be
25:14taken out of me
25:17How dare they
25:18tell a little girl
25:19that she's possessed?
25:21How dare they tell any of you?
25:24That introject is still stuck in your stomach
25:27undigested
25:29poisoning you
25:31and I think we need to go
25:32I haven't got a demon
25:34they were controlling me
25:36they were abusing me
25:38by telling me these things
25:39For many people
25:50the control
25:52and living in conformity
25:54with the rules
25:56was incredibly difficult
25:58I shared a room
26:00at the farm
26:02with a guy called Steve
26:03who would stay up
26:06till the early hours of the morning
26:08reading
26:10reading was considered to be a bit of a
26:13heady individualistic pursuit
26:16and I heard him
26:18arguing with Noel
26:20on a couple of occasions
26:22I heard raised voices
26:25and I came out of my room to see what was going on
26:28and Noel was stood by his bedroom door
26:31calling for Steve to come back
26:34but Steve just
26:36put his hand up dismissively in the air
26:39and marched off
26:43but it is indicative
26:45in this case
26:47of somebody who was unhappy
26:49I know that because
26:51he told me about it
26:54and it proved to be
26:58Steve's last night with us actually
27:06somebody rang and told me that
27:09his body had been found
27:11on the railway track
27:13and that he was knocked over by a train
27:17so I immediately asked if
27:20if
27:21I said oh
27:22has he committed suicide
27:24and
27:26I was told I shouldn't
27:28be thinking
27:29such thoughts
27:30because of course
27:31he hadn't committed suicide
27:34it had just been a terrible accident
27:40this was the public
27:42statement if you like
27:43from the community
27:44although the coroner
27:50now says that there is no evidence
27:52to support criticism of the sect
27:54his concern was based on the fact
27:56that in addition to Stephen's gruesome death
27:58there was an unusual coincidence
28:00of another death in unusual circumstances
28:03eighteen months ago
28:05in this case another member of the sect
28:07was found lying naked in the garden
28:09in December and he died from exposure
28:11well it was cut-reaching
28:18the initial thought was it's gone so my praying
28:22and nothing to worry about
28:24I don't think anybody knows what happened or why it happened
28:29the circumstances of both deaths are just a mystery
28:35which raises questions really
28:40the new creation Christian community has aroused its fair share of criticism
28:46there's a natural suspicion of any such highly committed and insular group of people
28:51who claim to have found the true way to God
28:54such ecstasy must surely have a flaw
28:57very very gradually through the years
28:59he has increased his evangelism until it became aggressive
29:05and that's when I skipped out
29:07I know what goes on
29:08I know what goes on
29:26Community members have bought an old hotel
29:28and some of the county's more elegant homes
29:31The community uses the skills of its members in several businesses
29:34a company called Scano does all the building work on community properties
29:39there's a chain of health food shops called the House of Goodness Limited
29:44we were growing really fast at that point
29:48various articles were made about us because we were something unusual
29:53but of course the fear of the unknown I think is very very real
30:00I see a cult
30:03I know they're saying all the time that they're not a cult
30:06but I do see a cult an enclosed cult which exists for itself
30:10I mean there are people who want to dub us a cult
30:15but we are very orthodox
30:18we're a church
30:20we're a genuine Christian church
30:22as the Evangelical Alliance have said
30:24we are a genuine Christian church
30:28Yes, Noel was a very dominating character
30:32however, I'm against Jesus' fellowship being called a cult
30:36after all, it sprang out of a Baptist church
30:39and the Baptist church has got, nationally has got a structure
30:44we are people of historic Christianity
30:47we recognise and churches in general recognise
30:51that we belong to the Church of Christ throughout the world
30:56and therefore of course we completely deny any suggestion
31:00that we are a cult in the way the word is now accepted
31:04our good does get evil spoken of
31:06there are false allegations and the like
31:09but we believe our testimony will win through
31:12Oh God, I have so many, many sins
31:24but listen if we confess our sins
31:28God, here are my many, many, many sins
31:31but God, I don't want the things of the world anymore
31:37you must bring yourself to a new commitment to Jesus
31:43you must be 100% His
31:46He is
31:56At that point, the thing that developed
31:59very interestingly
32:01was that
32:06celibacy
32:08became more and more
32:10something which Noel encouraged
32:12he said that in the world in general
32:17there was far too much intimacy
32:23Surrender the middle part of you
32:27Many of us here
32:30will have to accept
32:33to accept
32:35that an awful
32:36power of sin
32:38learnt
32:40there
32:42but now
32:44we give
32:45our genitals
32:47to Jesus
32:52When I became celibate
32:55I was one of the earlier people to commit to that
32:59It was just presented as an option
33:03and then it grew into something else
33:07It did become the foundation for Noel in a way
33:13and so it was a kind of a tick box
33:17for brothers to get elevated up the ranks
33:20In my case, I was 24
33:24I had this experience with a girl I was going out with
33:30before I joined the church
33:32It wasn't
33:34a great relationship really
33:37So, you know, I wasn't an experienced exponent of
33:43you know
33:47I was probably in my early twenties
33:50In fact, I'm a peculiarity
33:55having basically
33:57joined the community when I was 18
34:00and been so introverted before I was 18
34:03I've never had a girlfriend
34:05So here I am, 65 years old
34:08and I've never had a girlfriend
34:10Right?
34:12Yeah, which in many ways must make me a bit unique
34:15but that is me
34:16and I am what God has made me in that sense
34:21And, of course, Noel himself was a single celibate
34:28Celibacy was for life
34:35But it wasn't just a case of holiness
34:39It went beyond that
34:42It was far more
34:45to do with
34:49the control of people
34:52And in fact, from now on
34:56relationships between brothers and sisters
34:59would be something that was entirely monitored
35:02and regulated
35:03It got to the point where
35:20within the household
35:22men would sleep down one end of the house
35:23women would sleep at the other end
35:25and generally
35:27men and women didn't fraternise
35:29it's almost like there was a complete vacuum
35:32there with regards to anything of a sexual nature
35:36and I think that was a projection from Noel actually
35:42In a sexual sense
35:44he was an incredibly mixed up
35:48insecure person
35:50I myself
35:54encountered Noel
35:57either in his underclothes
36:00or just wearing a bath towel
36:03and having
36:05younger brothers sat next to him
36:08on the bed
36:10which I thought was
36:13it unsettled me
36:17Looking back
36:22I can say
36:24he was struggling
36:26I think with his sexuality
36:31and perhaps
36:33you know
36:34he was fighting against those tendencies
36:36How that came out at the time
36:40it was obvious
36:42anger
36:43anger
36:57I remember he used to work himself up into
37:00these massive rants
37:02where he used to like
37:04rage at everybody
37:06More and more
37:08Noel absolutely
37:10hit the roof
37:11he used to get so irate
37:15and for some reason
37:17it was
37:19often
37:20young people
37:25I just remember every single night
37:28Noel ranting
37:30sweating ranting
37:32and telling you about hell's fire
37:34and if you allowed the children to be swept away
37:39sometimes he'd shout so hard
37:41that the veins on his neck would just
37:43stand out
37:45it was horrific
37:46you know
37:47he just hated us
37:49and as time went past
37:56the way in which children in the community were treated
38:01became more and more
38:05extreme
38:06extreme
38:14in all of the households
38:16birch sticks were
38:18kept hidden
38:20but we
38:22we all knew where they were
38:24it was preached that you spare the rod and spoil the child
38:28it was preached that you spare the rod and spoil the child
38:34I do remember a lot of roddings
38:37maybe not as many as Max
38:39you know my sister she was rotted from the age of two
38:41how often were you disciplined do you remember?
38:50I reckon every day
38:52or almost every day
38:56all of the children were rodded
38:59all of the children were rodded
39:02you would get disciplined because somebody
39:05a brother
39:07there has decided that something you've just done
39:10was defiant
39:12that's what I remember hearing a lot
39:13that I was being defiant
39:17one particular occasion
39:19we're in the bedroom
39:20and
39:23mum was
39:25mum was disciplining Mags
39:27she was about two
39:29and she was whacking her with a stick
39:31and Magsy was just screaming and screaming and screaming
39:34and I just
39:36so I like buried myself under the covers
39:38like covered my ears and like
39:40ruffled my feet to make noise
39:41with the bedsheets
39:43to try and block out
39:45the sound
39:47of this
39:48screaming baby
39:55I mean it wasn't
39:57I don't know
39:59it's difficult
40:01really
40:03I mean when you've got everybody together
40:05you know
40:07and everyone's looking
40:09you know
40:10because I was a single mum
40:12and had no husband
40:14everybody
40:16all the brothers thought it was their place
40:19to point out to me
40:21what they thought my child
40:23should or shouldn't be doing
40:25I mean the elders would take decisions
40:28for my children you know
40:30and I found that really difficult
40:35How do you feel sort of overall
40:37it's affected your relationship with your mum?
40:41Um
40:43I haven't really ever spoken to her about
40:47how
40:49how it made me feel
40:51it's like the elephant in the room
40:55that you never talk about
40:57you just sort of politely skirt around
40:59but
41:01you kind of feel like
41:03you wanted to be more protected
41:04I've never been in any doubt that
41:14my mum really loves me
41:16and she's a good person
41:18and she of course she was doing it
41:20because she thought it was the right thing to do
41:22but the bit that gives me rage
41:24is the bit that's like
41:26that was your choice
41:27I didn't choose any of this shit
41:30children were anybody's
41:33sorry they were anybody's
41:35we were open to whoever
41:37and that as horrible as a pill that is for our parents to swallow
41:41that's the facts
41:42it's tricky
41:44it's tricky
41:48but the key to successful brainwashing
41:51is to keep the subject unaware that they're being manipulated and controlled
41:56I've used the analogy of the frog in boiling water
42:00you know a frog if you heat it up it's horrible
42:04but if you heat it up slowly
42:06it doesn't know it's being heated up and boiled alive
42:10and I think there is an element of that happening
42:14so to your parents
42:17the punishment is justified as being necessary to cleanse this so-called sin
42:21the doctrine is more important than the individual's well-being
42:31what Noel Stanton seems to have created is a state within a state
42:36an apparently benevolent totalitarian system
42:39where the interests of the individual are subjugated to the interests of the majority
42:42all their businesses have grown out of their community needs
42:58there's a builders merchants and a plumbing and decorating business which service their houses
43:03there's a firm of solicitors and a doctor's surgery of five GPs
43:08in their heyday those businesses were regularly turning in profits
43:18and so that was giving us a very very good financial base on which to work
43:25I pray for sales and I get my prayers answered
43:30and so do the rest of the staff
43:32I believe God loves this and I believe he wants to help us
43:38in the 80s there was a big expansion
43:54and I think the power if you have power there's that saying isn't there you know all power corrupts I think it does
44:06I'm a Christian with power
44:09and I think as time went by
44:13there were more and more controls
44:16with Noel
44:21it was the natural progression of his personality
44:24which was sort of like controlling
44:27bullying maybe
44:29and so in that name was above every other name
44:32the name of Jesus Christ who is Lord
44:35now we baptize you
44:37Jesus the Lord
44:39oh
44:49tonight we talked to members of Britain's foremost religious sect
44:53are they here to give salvation or has that operation altogether more sinister feel
44:59John Everett you were involved for five years
45:01for five years and then you left and suffered a nervous breakdown, didn't you?
45:07I left the community because I had grown to believe
45:13that they were exhibiting characteristics which I began to associate with cultishness.
45:19There were several key factors involved with my decision to leave.
45:36There was the whole business of having one man at the helm with so much authority.
45:44Of course, the way in which children in the community were treated.
45:53And as time passed, I became really angry.
45:59And at that point, I thought,
46:04I need, for the sake of people who might be drawn in,
46:08I need to make known what I know about the community.
46:14So, in the first instance, I wrote quite a long manuscript.
46:23It was actually picked up by the Baptist Union and the Evangelical Alliance.
46:30And I had meetings with them.
46:32I think there's a real issue about the way the church was being administered.
46:39There was an unhealthy emphasis on celibacy.
46:42There was a concern that children may be being put in a more pressured situation than was helpful,
46:49and that an excessive discipline might be being used.
46:52When people spoke to the press, yeah, I mean, it was, um, it was, that was relatively full-on.
47:13Let him die! Crucify him!
47:20The Judas word would get mentioned quite a bit.
47:24And so I was the first formal excommunicant of the community.
47:35Nobody was allowed to talk to me or have anything to do with me because I'd, I'd become the enemy.
47:48Um, all right, yes, to be able to say we're part of the Evangelical Alliance was helpful.
47:53We did want to maintain what connections we could with other Christian organizations.
48:02But, um, you know, internally, I think our desire was far more to be acknowledged by God
48:08than to be acknowledged by human organizations.
48:13Do not trust in the weakness of man.
48:16We're in a fight, persecuted.
48:19Will you take Jesus into the kind of church that he desires?
48:29Will you? Dare you?
48:32And so a Jesus army was formed.
48:35Blow the trumpet!
48:38Move on!
48:40Advance!
48:43Join the fight!
48:44When the Jesus army marches to war, their battle is for hearts and minds,
48:50and their message is high pressure and hard line.
48:53Join the army or be damned.
49:03We're looking for a new Britain. New Britain morally.
49:07You see, we live in a nation where there's all sorts of sexual permissive problems and the like.
49:12Every kind of moral problem.
49:14When Jesus army came in,
49:18there was this element of kind of, um, how do you say this in a nice way?
49:23Up yours to the establishment.
49:25Just let the spirit fall upon you.
49:28In the name of Jesus.
49:33Yes,
49:34the self-refaction,
49:36When suicide, we find you in the powerful blood of the land.
49:46Let's be revolutionists.
49:53We've got to promote the Christian gospel in a fairly militant form today.
49:57After all, evil's on the march.
49:59Today, the debate surrounding one of the most active new religious groups, the Jesus Army.
50:04To some, they're a dangerous cult.
50:06To others, they're a radical movement which changes lives.
50:10This Jesus Army is something that, frankly, it disgusts me.
50:18These Rambo jackets, the uniform they have chosen is the uniform of force.
50:25Jesus Army was, in one sense, deliberately promoted as being up front, in your face.
50:33But one of the aspects, I think, of the Jesus Army Manifesto was to go where others don't go.
50:40Reaching those right on the outskirts of society, whether it be drug addicts or those homeless,
50:48you know, reaching out into various of the gay situations and things like that at times as well.
50:56Father, I just pray that you will work powerfully to show them that there is sin within them, Lord.
51:15Cause them to come to this bus, Lord Jesus.
51:18Cause them to find out what's going on inside them right now, Lord.
51:21It's important to find out why they're so uncomfortable, Lord Jesus.
51:31I was probably about 13 or 14 the first time I was told to go evangelising.
51:38I felt a lot of pressure, actually.
51:41It was drummed into us that this was the only way to gain redemption, to go to heaven.
51:47And sometimes it could be quite scary because you'd get people who were off their heads.
51:55It really was the lion's den.
51:58Particularly for children.
51:59It's great to be able to have the resources to be able to do something that actually changed people,
52:22that actually helped people directly.
52:23I don't think there was any kind of randomness in it.
52:35I think with Noel, everything was a tool that was used for a purpose.
52:43It's been a good night's work.
53:01Three people are travelling back to the farm for the weekend.
53:03Steve from London.
53:14Picked him up last night from Leicester Square.
53:16We don't know much about his background, are we?
53:17Anyway, bless you, Steve.
53:19Good to see you.
53:20Are you glad to be here?
53:21Yep, sure am.
53:23We haven't got too many rules here.
53:25No!
53:26No!
53:27We just want to be like Jesus and move in peace and love and blessings.
53:39We believe in Jesus Christ, the Saviour of us.
53:44I think by then, Noel had realised that we needed to kind of make ourselves some sort of charity
53:52or organisation to help support people.
53:55So then people say, well, look at all the good that he did.
54:01You can't weigh it up like that.
54:04A lot of good does not outweigh a whole load of bad.
54:07A lot of good does not outweigh a whole load of bad.
54:37A lot of bad does not outweigh a whole load of bad, but for next year.
54:47Use your strength and your grace and your healing power.
54:51GeertBEEN
55:00My best friend, she had a really hard time at this new community house, Battle Centre.
55:05She was very unhappy.
55:09I remember her saying how depressed she was,
55:13how she hated her life, how difficult it was.
55:18I used to go visit sometimes.
55:23This elder, he didn't seem to mind that I was there.
55:29He would use me as a lookout,
55:30so that I could warn him if anybody in the community house
55:34was coming into the room or passing by.
55:39He took her down into the cellar,
55:43and he would touch her, try and hug her.
55:47I mean, I didn't actually try and watch
55:49because I was supposed to be the lookout,
55:51but you can't help yourself but watch.
55:56We were 12 and 13 at the time.
56:01One day, my dad approached me and told me that
56:08my best friend had tried to commit suicide.
56:15I felt ashamed.
56:18I felt ashamed of what he'd done to her.
56:20I felt ashamed that I hadn't told anybody already.
56:23So the next day, my dad arranged for me to tell the elder of our household.
56:34They would report back to Noel.
56:40Noel was just adamant I was a traitor,
56:43and I was in collaboration with my best friend.
56:45The dark voices.
56:52What have they said?
56:55What damage have they done?
56:59What lies have they called?
57:02What gossip has come from them?
57:09The brothers, they still didn't believe me.
57:12Men, come and stand right at the front of the stage,
57:13and just stand there and pray against me, and curse me.
57:17I was an abomination, basically.
57:19The Jesus revolution is showing everyone that the Christian faith is the whole world.
57:22The brothers, they still didn't believe me.
57:25Men, come and stand right at the front of the stage,
57:27and just stand there and pray against me and curse me.
57:31I was an abomination, basically.
57:35basically.
57:40We're Jesus' revolutionaries!
57:43Now, part of this Jesus' revolution is showing everyone
57:46that the Christian faith, the living Christian faith,
57:50is a faith of real joy.
57:53You simply have to surrender and receive.
58:00Well, of course, she was not the only one.
58:04What happened next was horrifying.
58:08I later found out, actually, most of my peers had been abused.
58:15These people, they thought they were above the law.
58:34They were above the law and they found its way.
58:38They thought they were above the law.
58:39But I was beyond the law, they found it in her life.
58:43He did not go away.
58:44He did not go away.
58:46It was the only reason for him to be below the law.
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