Maggie Hassan Asks Nominees Point Blank: Will You Follow The President's Orders Or The Law?

Forbes Breaking News

During a Senate Homeland Security Committee hearing on Thursday, Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-NH) asked nominees if they would follow the law or the President's directives.

Transcript

00:00Well, I thank you, Mr. Chair and Ranking Member Peters for holding this important hearing,

00:05and I thank all of the nominees for your willingness to serve,

00:10and congratulations to you and your families, and I thank your families for their support as well.

00:15I'm going to start with a simple question, and we'll go right down the line from Mr. Allende to Mr. O'Connell.

00:21If you're directed by the President to take an action that would violate the law,

00:25would you follow the President's directive or follow the law? Mr. Allende.

00:28Senator, thank you for your question.

00:31If confirmed, I find it very unlikely that the President or anyone acting on his behalf would ever instruct me to break the law.

00:39I don't believe that would ever happen.

00:42But if it did?

00:43If it did, as unlikely as that would be, I would consult with the Office of General Counsel as to the interpretation of the law,

00:50and if it persists, if for some reason I disagreed with the interpretation,

00:57I would resign.

01:01So are you committed to following the law or not?

01:05Senator, if confirmed...

01:07Forget for the minute who instructs you to follow the law or whether there's a difference of opinion.

01:13Are you committed to following the law or not?

01:16I am, Senator, and I think that...

01:17Thank you. That's a yes. Mr. Planky.

01:19Thank you, Senator.

01:23I share my colleague's process that I don't believe the President would ever ask me to violate the law,

01:29but I do believe in upholding the rule of law.

01:32Yes, Senator.

01:33Thank you. Mr. Fox.

01:35Senator, in my professional capacity now and if confirmed as ICIG, I will always follow the law.

01:39Thank you. Mr. O'Connell.

01:41Thank you, Senator.

01:42Senator, as a judge on the D.C. Superior Court, my only job would be to follow the law,

01:48and I couldn't anticipate any circumstance where anyone, the President of the United States or anybody else,

01:55would try to influence me to do anything other than follow the law.

01:59Well, I appreciate your commitment to following the law.

02:01I will say to those of you who have just said out loud that you do not believe or expect the President of the United States

02:09to instruct you to break the law, that reflects a disconnection from reality that concerns me.

02:15I know you may have to say those things to satisfy the President or the people who are watching this hearing on his behalf,

02:21but it is an extraordinary statement given events.

02:25Now, Mr. Planky, as you know, CISA helps state and local governments improve their cybersecurity

02:30and protect critical assets.

02:33One of the key programs that supports this goal is the state and local cybersecurity grant program.

02:38This program provides grants to state and local governments to bolster their cybersecurity

02:43and better protect Americans from hostile actors and cyber criminals.

02:47Unfortunately, this program runs out of money in September.

02:50So my question to you, Mr. Planky, is do you support continued funding for the state and local cybersecurity grant program,

02:56and what would the impact be should Congress fail to fund it?

03:02Senator, thank you for that question.

03:04Absolutely support state and local grant program for cybersecurity.

03:09I think there's many rural areas of America, and CISA exists to support all Americans across the United States,

03:17and one of the best ways to do that is through the state and local grant program.

03:20Well, I appreciate that.

03:21It's not, you know, in a state like New Hampshire, 234 cities and towns, many of them very small.

03:28They just don't have the resources.

03:30And, of course, the bigger impact, it's not only on each individual city or town or county,

03:35but it also, the weakest link in cyber impacts everybody.

03:41So I'd really appreciate working with you on that.

03:43Mr. Allende, under the 2024 DHS AI roadmap, the Science and Technology Directorate is set to build out the infrastructure

03:54needed to evaluate the risk that terrorists and criminals could misuse powerful AI models, right?

04:01So just this past week, OpenAI released a new model that, for the first time,

04:05they classified as having a, quote, high capability of producing biological harm, including dangerous pathogens.

04:13Given these very real risks to our national security,

04:16I'd like to hear from you about how you would prioritize specific types of AI risk

04:22as Undersecretary of Science and Technology, and how would you approach that prioritization?

04:28Senator, thank you for your question.

04:30For background, I am an attorney and a manager.

04:33I have a very strong technical interest, and I study the material, but I am not a scientist or an engineer.

04:42If confirmed, however, the Directorate of Science and Technology has a number of experts within

04:47that I would consult on this matter.

04:50I can say that the kinds of models matter, whether it's large language, small language models, open and closed.

04:56And so that gets very granular.

04:58I am very happy to work with you and your team to discuss each of those options

05:03and how each one could be managed in a very granular way.

05:06Are you concerned about the risks that AI poses?

05:10Senator, thank you for your question.

05:12I am.

05:13In Florida, we have actually taken it upon ourselves at the department to build an AI use policy

05:19and to start addressing those very risks, both on the privacy aspects of what can be disclosed to a model

05:27and how to responsibly use a model that you've done.

05:29So you must have some experience then in prioritizing what kind of risks you're looking at.

05:33My question, I mean, this is urgent.

05:37I mean, this is a national security and public safety matter, and it is an urgent one.

05:43We've got open AI saying they've now got an AI that is highly capable of producing biological harm.

05:53So this is on our doorstep.

05:56It's a national security issue.

05:58Do you feel urgency about it?

06:00And what's your plan to make sure that you're focused on the most serious threats?

06:04Senator, I absolutely feel urgency behind it.

06:07The scope of what the Department of Management Service is

06:11and what the Director of Science and Technology were very different,

06:14and I can't relate one to the other.

06:16If confirmed, I will very...

06:18So how are you qualified for the job?

06:20Senator, my background as a lawyer has involved highly technical matters,

06:26such as cybersecurity.

06:27I started the cybersecurity practice for my law firm.

06:30I have a master's in decision information science.

06:33I have a long history of working with very smart folks.

06:37such as scientists, engineers, data analysts,

06:41to bring those methodologies to bear on the problems

06:44that we have at the Department of Management Services.

06:46I am very happy and comfortable working with people much smarter than I

06:51and enabling them to do the job that they need to do.

06:55So I'm over time.

06:57I will follow up with you, but perhaps I can make this observation.

07:01This isn't necessarily about how smart people are, although that helps.

07:05This is about whether technologists who are engaged in this kind of work

07:10understand the risks and are willing to put some guardrails up

07:15and willing to prioritize how we go after making sure that these risks

07:19do not impact our national security and public safety.

07:22Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Category

Transcript

Recommended