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00:00my name is Lucas Platt and in 2010 I was living in New York City as a reality TV
00:13showrunner I was just wrapping up the first season of Steven Seagal Lawman no
00:19slips no stud doubles no second chances at the time shows like that were big
00:26business and huge money spinners and everyone wanted the next keeping up with
00:31the Kardashians the real housewives and there seemed to be no end to the reality
00:36boom for me though I just really loved the adrenaline rush and the quick
00:40thinking that you had to do to to come up with a great hour of television I was
00:50looking for my next job and I got an email from lifetime they were interested in
00:57making a series about this private investigation firm out in the Bay Area
01:02with a really interesting twist they are private investigator moms thanks very
01:10much for for being here this is this is fascinating first of all how did you get
01:13started in this before becoming a private investigator I had worked in the
01:22legal world in different capacities I had just become a new mom and I had very
01:29small children and was trying to figure out how I could still have a career but
01:34also be with my kids and that's when it popped up this job at Butler and Associates who
01:43wanted this my name is Chris Butler I'm the owner of Butler and Associates private
01:50investigations what we do here is uncover the truth I find each person at this
01:57table very valuable working for Chris was great he was very professional you know it
02:03seemed like he stumbled upon like the secret of investigative work of like
02:07hiring moms for me it was exciting and every case was different and there was
02:15just an empowering feeling of knowing one party he was taking the kids school and
02:20the daycare and the other parts doing undercover work investigating fraud or
02:25surveillance and some cheating spouse it was pretty cool my background is in law
02:32enforcement and it was a very tumultuous ten-year career I pushed the envelope
02:40and that's I carry that over into this work I don't stop testing testing my first
02:48impression of Chris was definitely like a businessman but I also saw his vision
02:54and I thought wow he's got a great idea I mean he's really trying to give
03:00mothers an opportunity and at that time I wanted that opportunity as well I had
03:08just come from the sheriff's office where I worked 12-hour days so my kids were in
03:13daycare a lot I wasn't you know I missed a lot of birthday parties a lot of
03:17holidays so with this new job it was not only more flexible I also knew right away
03:23that I loved it because I was out in the field I was moving and I was working with
03:29these amazing powerful women with various backgrounds we obviously had a lot of women
03:34in the office there was Michelle Charmaine and Ami but we also had one guy his name
03:43was Carl Marino he was former law enforcement and he had come on board because there were times where
03:50you just needed a male partner or a male like to be in a particular case and you know initially we
03:57were like wow he's very attractive and he kind of looks like a model and we started to learn that he
04:02was interested in acting and did some extra roles on TV I thought that was interesting okay you got this
04:14little side thing that you do Chris definitely gravitated more towards Carl and I think a lot
04:21of that had to do with his acting I mean Chris was always chasing the limelight and we were all aware
04:26that he was trying to brand PI moms and really push both us and him out into the media welcome Chris
04:33Butler and three of his PI moms Denise Michelle and Charmaine Chris why women you say they're great
04:39multitaskers what do you mean when I switched to women specifically PI moms there was more of a team
04:47mentality more nurturing more more caring and that translated directly into happier clients after I saw
04:56the dr. Phil clips I immediately flew out to California to meet Chris and the PI moms I just loved
05:05the idea of showing this group of women busting criminals together I liked Lucas from the get-go
05:11like he seemed to be great he seemed to be very interested in doing this show and the story but I
05:17told him I don't want this to be like a real housewives reality TV it shows the worst of people I feel like
05:27I'll hurt you don't do that like if this show is going to be about us internally fighting and all this
05:33kind of stuff like I really wasn't interested the moms were really concerned about the show but I
05:40reassured them we weren't looking for infighting or drama just good cases and personal stories
05:46when Lucas approached me about the show and wanting to put me on there as PI mom I just didn't want to
05:56have anything to do with it Ami struck me as a person who had been through some pretty traumatic stuff
06:02but smart and decisive and and just you know like a good person who would be really good for TV I
06:10had a little bit of a rough background and Lucas said that we could definitely incorporate my traumas
06:19into the show itself and so I decided I wanted to show other women that you can survive and you can
06:28make it and don't let anyone tell you you can after that initial meeting with the PI moms I just thought
06:36this is a home run they're articulate and funny and smart we're gonna make a great series my name is
06:46Theresa Moore King I was the line producer for PI moms if there is a problem in the production be it people
06:56personnel schedule locations money it is my job to fix it oh so you're the real boss then okay sure
07:07lifetime was a thousand percent behind this show they knew the possibilities were endless you know it
07:18could break off into New York or into Chicago or into Atlanta you know those were all opportunities but
07:25the spark of that had to be with this show in San Francisco for a reality show this was a pretty big
07:35scale production there were three camera crews multiple locations and just a lot of different elements I
07:42think our budget was about four million for eight episodes which is obviously a healthy budget but only if you're
07:51getting all the things you need to make a show happen
07:56before we started shooting I went to Butler's offices and there was a guy at the front desk this guy Carl Marino I think he was
08:05manning the phones while everybody else was at lunch and he just kind of grabbed me and told me that he
08:11really felt strongly that he should be one of the main characters in the series Carl's argument was that
08:20because of the work that he had done on this series trauma that that fan base particularly women would tune in
08:32to see the P.I. mom series because of him it just felt like egotism run amok I explained to him that the show is called P.I. moms and he's not a mom
08:47I'm so sorry but the network has already decided that it's going to be Chris and the moms and that was
08:54that so I thought okay he's out of the picture we're good to go
09:04that first day of shooting it was very exhilarating
09:09they showcased us training they showcased us doing certain cases and I was thinking hopefully this will
09:16inspire other women hey you can do this job too you know we're ordinary people doing this cool thing
09:23and you can do it too I was having so much fun I love production we were a family I would say we
09:30were like the Charlie's Angels because we were so different yet so powerful at that point I just
09:39thought I've got tons of great characters this is going to be the easiest show I've ever produced and was
09:46I feel like this is the point in the story where everything takes a left turn I'm a journalist and
10:03one day I got a really interesting pitch a Beverly Hills publicist emailed me and said hey you might not
10:11know this but there's a group of private eye investigators who are also sort of soccer moms
10:17and they are filming for a new reality series for lifetime television would you like to ride along on
10:23an investigation on a day off from filming and I really smelled a great story here
10:30it was your typical infidelity case the client believed that her fiance was cheating on her and
10:40so she wanted to make sure before she got married is this guy for real so I got in the minivan with the
10:48PI moms the niece has slouched down in the passenger seat with the video camera shooting as a huge fan of
10:56detective stories I had butterflies it's an exciting job so you know and I was hoping that would come
11:03through in the article oh oh look here he comes within just a few minutes a fiance came roaring up the
11:13driveway and took off Charmaine hit the gas hard the chase was on the guy pulled into a nice lunch spot
11:24look look look look but he's got a young brunette in the passenger seat
11:32they stopped right in front of our car with Denise filming on video
11:40we have a cheater people and then boom case closed
11:48you know I'm not a reality show watcher but this one felt like it would make for a gripping show
11:57these were likable moms Butler was an interesting character I felt like this idea can't miss
12:05and then all of a sudden an email comes in
12:09that completely changes my perspective on the story
12:13it's from somebody named Ronald Rutherford I am writing this as a courtesy to you it would be a
12:23mistake to publish the article on the PI moms and Chris Butler Chris totally played you the case that
12:31you sat in on was totally scripted all the participants were employees or paid actors I am not sure what your
12:39intentions are with the article but I hope that publishing it is not in your plans thanks a concerned citizen
12:46it was just wild because I had never suspected that this had been staged at all I was angry that I had
13:00been exploited like this and that I had been played for a chump but I also thought if Chris Butler was
13:06willing to do this to a local magazine and go to such elaborate lengths what's to stop them from
13:13doing it for this reality show I needed to talk to whoever was running the whole PI moms show because after
13:21all everybody wonders how fake reality television is oh shit we've got a big problem if someone decided to
13:33publish a story about how the show was fake that would just ruin us I explained to him that what we
13:41were doing was 100% real and I was very clear that all the cases were legitimate he told me that they were
13:53they were doing backflips trying to make a reality show about real cases and real people I appreciated
14:00that he was being transparent with me and I believed him he told me about this Ronald Rutherford character and
14:10and at that point then I did get worried because it was very clear that someone's trying to ruin the
14:20series there was a certain irony to suggesting that we had fake cases because at that point part of the
14:34problem with the TV show was there weren't that many cases to begin with Lucas told me that Chris had
14:43over promised how many cases he was actually working on so I was brought on to find cases that the PI moms
14:51could sleuth out yeah in effect I was drumming up business for Chris on top of that as we started
15:01shooting I really saw Chris as the weak link approaching left turn I want to go right that's
15:10okay it'll reset I couldn't tell if you know he just was the type of person who played everything
15:15really close to the vest or shy or what it was but I was concerned because quiet inarticulate awkward
15:23characters in reality TV are death but I knew we were gonna be able to overcome it because the moms
15:33they were big characters and their stories were so rich and I knew that if we focused on them not him
15:43we could make something great nice to meet you one scene we shot on me wanted to get a tattoo it was
15:55a way of her kind of working through personal trauma I thought I want to take this opportunity to tell my
16:03story on camera I sat down and Lucas said tell me about your son when my son was 13 months old
16:18I trusted somebody being around my child but my son was attacked which caused brain damage and years later
16:32my son ultimately died he was a special boy that was the first time that I had really talked about it
16:58with anybody including my family it was so difficult and it took everything in me prior to the show I didn't
17:11know that about her it was very emotional because to me on me was just such a tough woman
17:19when I heard that story I thought to myself wow something that big and that serious that was really cool
17:33that the show wanted to take something like that on
17:36after we filmed that scene we started to really ramp up shooting
17:47the unlicensed PI was one of our show ideas the PI moms they were going to sting an actual
17:55unlicensed private investigator by setting him up with a pretend case and then bust him like hey
18:05you're not supposed to do this without a license the network me the producers we all were very excited
18:13about it so then that way if he makes a left and goes west you can follow him and I can have a chance
18:18to get behind you all right Lucas and the crew had already filmed all of our hard work Denise researching
18:25Michelle preparing and making contact with him so all we needed was the final sting to close out
18:32that case and have a great episode for the PI mom show on the day of the final scene Michelle and I
18:40we're supposed to meet the unlicensed private investigator in Walnut Creek I was in my production
18:47office waiting to hear back from my producers 10 o'clock nothing 11 o'clock nothing noon nothing
18:57Lucas was just pacing back and forth and I was kind of just looking around going what is going on we were
19:05like oh no he's not going to show up and so the production crew asked Michelle to call him one more
19:13time and finally he actually answered and told Michelle I'm not coming I've been tipped off my initial
19:29thought was who the fuck just completely sabotaged everything I was just livid but I wasn't just gonna
19:42kind of let it go I thought the first thing we needed to do was figure out who was the tipster maybe that's
19:48who was sending the crazy Ronald Rutherford emails to pee so I called the unlicensed PI and I said listen
19:59you're right you were going to be filmed but if you don't mind call the guy who called you and let
20:09us hear the voice and he did he dialed the phone rang a few times and finally phone connected
20:25hello
20:31I couldn't fucking believe it Ronald Rutherford was Carl Marino
20:40I felt rage like in my mind I was thinking you're a fucking idiot why would you fucking do this
20:53it didn't make sense he was sabotaging the show and sabotaging the shoot yet he wanted to be on
21:05camera I think he was completely naive to think that he was gonna get a spot on the show at that point
21:14I had to come to Jesus with Chris and I told him I said listen if you want to have a show at all
21:19you're gonna have to fire Carl and just get rid of him Chris's reaction was don't worry about it
21:26like it was some minor infraction I was gobsmacked it's kind of surprising that Chris isn't like
21:36beating the fuck out of Carl I mean it was just it was insane
21:42the only explanation I could come up with they were lovers why else wouldn't somebody fire this
21:51this person who was behaving so badly after that conversation with Chris I talked to the network
22:00about how to handle Carl and they decided they were going to send him a cease and desist letter
22:07Carl was given notice you have to stop talking about the show you can't ruin our cases you know
22:18you're not you're not a part of it our hope was that it would stop so the good side is that the network
22:26took care of it the bad side is is that now they're equalized on the show way more stress on Lucas to get
22:37things going after the production found out that Carl was interfering with cases something was off with
22:49Chris okay sit down would you put your camera down and sit down it felt like like he wasn't
22:55connected to any of us we didn't understand when he was there and wasn't there and it just seemed like
23:01he was doing his own thing clearly he had other things that were happening that were taking precedence
23:11after our initial meeting Lucas told me I know who sent you that email
23:18Carl Marino who has been sabotaging the cases Lucas said Carl was out of the picture
23:26but apparently he still had more secrets to tell me
23:34I am hesitant to tell you this but Mr. Butler is involved in some serious criminal activity right
23:42now Butler is selling large amounts of marijuana along with other drugs prescriptions annex and steroids
23:50that has been confiscated by the Contra Costa County Task Force you see the commander of the task force is
23:59taking the drugs from raids and giving them to Chris to move and then he gives them to well me I have not sold
24:09any and don't want to I am NOT a drug dealer and do not want anything to do with this this was
24:18just mind-blowing mind-melting information you know this all started with me being invited to write a
24:25fluffy lifestyle piece about a reality show now I'm being brought into this what sounds like very
24:33dangerous conspiracy involving stolen drugs and dirty cops who are putting them back out on the
24:40street after they've already been confiscated suddenly this was a much bigger issue than I felt I could
24:46share with Lucas I mean this wasn't just a staged case for reality television show this was serious
24:53criminal activity so I continued to correspond with Carl and said to him you need to go to the police but he
25:01he wasn't sure who he could trust and asked me for my help
25:10my phone rang and it was a journalist by the name of Peter Crux
25:17and he begins to tell me about a case that potentially involved police corruption and that we needed to
25:25speak to an individual by the name of Carl Moreno I arranged for him to meet me at our DA's office after
25:38hours and I said Carl tell me why are we here and then he starts talking about Chris Butler police
25:46corruption drug dealers a reality TV series the dr. Phil show Peter Crux PI moms marijuana methamphetamine
25:55it was all over the place I stopped him and I said timeout timeout and I remember shaking my head I said
26:03maybe it's because I'm older my synapses aren't firing like everybody else's but at the time I didn't
26:09really understand anything but that changed I pound the weed pop right on top of the table Carl told me
26:22Chris had given him the weed to sell and he couldn't get out of it it was obvious that it was something to
26:30the story that he was telling me because I do have the marijuana in front of me at that point I knew I
26:36had a job to do my perception of reality TV is I don't believe it's it's real life I'm mostly interested
26:48in true crime using Carl we were asked to help build a case against Chris Butler and this corrupt cop so we
26:58came up with a plan to try and get Chris to mention drugs and then we met Carl and we wired him up
27:04the device that Carl had broadcast on a frequency that was on my police radio so I could turn the
27:24channel and listen to what was going on as soon as I heard that I knew that this was going to end with
27:42somebody going to jail but very few cases in my 25 years were like this
27:51I was like this is weird to me they're more interested in Carl ruining the TV show than the drugs
28:19you know I understand why you did it because you know if I was in the same position I probably
28:25would have done the same fucking thing but maybe I would have thought it out a little better
28:29don't kill the project
28:32so initially when we were doing the first operation or two we obviously didn't tell them but we were
28:45looking at the TV show just to see everything that was going on I noticed there were a lot of police
28:51cars and I thought that was strange for being such a really calm sleepy town it was odd to have the local
28:57police department show up while we were filming they were just sitting there watching you got this this
29:04feeling in the air of like something's not right with this entire production at this point what is
29:11happening here at that point I felt like we were barely holding things together but we had this one case
29:25that was our chance to save the series the East Bay couple is convinced that its teenage daughter is in danger the 15 year old is classified as a runaway a real girl really missing this case really felt big the parents woke up Monday to find her gone they say with no warning no provocation taking only a laptop a few clothes
29:55it was it was kind of like a do or die situation at that point and Lucas was like you're gonna do this you're gonna find her and you're gonna save the show our resources that were spent were big there were helicopters in the air trying to find out where she was in terms of the TV part of things it's great to have lots of leads and follow them
30:25what you really want to do is find the girl what you really want to do is find the girl and get her back to her family her parents have shared what they know with detectives now they wait
30:34the next thing I know I got a call and they say you're not gonna fucking believe this Carl has found a missing girl
30:51once again he's fucking things up we were angry one of my producers I thought I had to go give her a sedative because she wanted to murder him
31:03turned out that Chris had initially assigned Carl to look for the missing girl before handing it over to the P.I. moms but that Carl was still pursuing the case on his own
31:16and I thought that he was basically trying to set things up so that he would be filmed finding her and reuniting her with her family
31:26Carl called the police but he didn't let the P.I. moms take over
31:32the producers told us to meet at a certain place because we believed that the girl could be at this location
31:39the first thing I wanted to do was find Carl confront him and just like have it out with him
31:46when I got down there it was a clusterfuck of the highest order
31:54there were red and blue flashing lights everywhere people were screaming at each other and crew was yelling
32:02and the missing girl wasn't even there but lo and behold there was Carl like in the middle of all of that
32:12determined come hell or high water to have his 15 minutes of fame
32:16in my mind I was thinking you are so selfish because Carl knew where she was and didn't share it with
32:25anybody until it would benefit him I mean how fucking dumb are you to think that they're really
32:32going to push us out and then you're going to be the star of the show like who the fuck do you think
32:38you are I didn't want this show to be like a real housewives and this has become worse than a real
32:45housewives crazy chaos and people fighting how did we get to this place
32:51almost immediately the network called me for a crisis call at that point they had invested
33:06hundreds of thousands of dollars in the show and they were furious
33:11we were told that if anything else went south
33:19they would pull the plug
33:21now what we're talking about is the crystal
33:29we're ready now
33:30if you'd like to you'll buy it today
33:34right after the missing juvenile case
33:37we heard Chris mention that he had three pounds of methamphetamine for sale
33:42that pushed it over the edge for us
33:44we knew then that this needed to stop
33:47the next thing we needed to do was arrange a buy between the corrupt cop Chris and Carl
33:57we met with Carl we wired him up provided him with ten thousand dollars cash
34:04and instructed him to go to the P.I. firm to meet Chris
34:09what's up
34:15okay come on back here let's see that sound
34:18holy this is a lot
34:20that moment when Chris took the money from Carl and was counting it out
34:26and the methamphetamine was essentially given to Carl
34:33once that happens it's game over we got you
34:41a private investigator connected to a police corruption scandal cut a deal
34:48do you think you did anything wrong Chris
34:50facing seven felony charges a lot of damning evidence and a possible life sentence
34:56Chris Butler decided to take a plea deal
34:58holy shit what just happened
35:02Chris just got arrested for selling drugs
35:06I was just I was floored
35:09I was at home when I learned that Chris Butler had been arrested
35:15I mean I couldn't believe that that was happening
35:18Chris was my friend and so seeing him on TV and like the jumpsuits and stuff
35:23it was like it was very sad it was very scary
35:26I got a phone call that Chris Butler had been arrested
35:30and that was it the network was like you know what fuck it we're done
35:36I gathered everybody back at the production office the crew the moms and I I broke the news
35:51I was crying through that whole speech
35:58I just felt terrible that you know I put them through everything that I put them through
36:10for nothing
36:13Chris and Carl just took it away from everybody
36:22they put their desires and above everybody else's
36:27and like so many people were affected by that show
36:30and I know for a lot of people they're like it's just a show
36:34but it was a show that we were really passionate about
36:37sharing our stories and empowering other women to do this kind of work
36:42and then it was gone it was taken away from us
36:44when our show was canceled
36:50that opportunity that I had and me sharing my story was taken away
36:54so that was another reason why I was so disappointed
37:02was because I opened up and I shared so much for the first time
37:07and who knows who I could have touched
37:10if my story got out and I shared all of this with the world
37:16he doesn't realize what he took personally from me
37:23Chris got any reality TV ideas
37:31after the damning information came out about Chris Butler
37:44I worked straight through a weekend and wrote a 10,000 word piece
37:49the news coverage was instant
37:53and it gave Carl the dynamite to blow up the building
37:57I've always been that type of person who's always wanted to
38:00to uh you know to serve to help people
38:03I had no idea what it was how I was going to do it
38:05when I was going to do it
38:06but knowing where those drugs came from
38:08I knew something had to be done
38:09I was just like oh now I get it
38:12now I understand
38:14I thought they were lovers
38:16and then I finally saw all the leverage that Carl had over Chris
38:20because of the illegal activity
38:22ah my god I get it
38:26despite everything Carl did
38:29he was basically hailed as a hero
38:31because he rolled on them and then went undercover
38:34and that was Carl's big moment
38:36I think if you had not stepped forward
38:38who knows how far this would have gone
38:40maybe it would have turned into a murder case
38:42but the moms we were just all attacked
38:45and made fun of and embarrassed
38:47you say these women had visions of being on the red carpet with the Kardashians
38:52I think everybody involved here
38:53had visions that they were going to be on
38:56you know Access Hollywood every night
38:58and making a million dollars
38:59let me ask you something
39:00the P.I. moms took a lot of that heat
39:03because of the fact that their name was the show
39:07it wasn't the Chris Butler show
39:08and it wasn't the Carl Marino show
39:10it was the P.I. mom show
39:12so I think there may have been an assumption
39:16that the P.I. moms were involved in the whole setup
39:19and that couldn't have been further from the truth
39:22people were calling us frauds and fake
39:26and drug dealers and all sorts of things
39:29and we didn't get to say anything about it
39:31but Carl's 15 minutes of fame
39:34seemed to continue on
39:35when he became a regular on some TV show
39:37yes this is Lieutenant Kenneth
39:39from Colorado Springs Police Department
39:40having made a lot of reality TV
39:45there is a certain type of person
39:48who has some kind of emotional hole
39:53in the center of their psyche
39:56and they really feel that like
40:00the adulation of fans
40:03is going to fill that hole
40:05and I think that maybe that's what happened with Carl
40:09you would hope somebody in your group
40:13the success that he had with that show
40:16you would want to cheer them on
40:17but the fact of how he got there
40:20can't do it
40:21can't do it
40:23was he any good in it?
40:25no
40:25he ruined us and became the center of attention
40:29he got what he wanted
40:33okay let's hold for two minutes
40:37I'm just gonna help everyone stay there
40:39please do not bring Carl in here
40:42no
40:43I will sock that motherfucker
40:47you
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