The People's History Show Season 5 Episode 3

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Transcript

00:00Hello

00:29and welcome to the People's History Show

00:31the series that uncovers stories from Scotland's

00:34past. I'm Jennifer Reagh

00:35and I'm Fergus Sutherland. Coming up on

00:38tonight's episode

00:38I take a trip to Irvine to learn about

00:44what used to be Europe's largest leisure

00:46centre, the Magnum

00:47And I'll be finding out

00:51why 900 volunteers travelled

00:53from Belize to Scotland to work

00:56as lumberjacks during World War II

00:59Looks like a great show. Action-packed as

01:01always and first up, Colin Stone is in

01:04Aberdeenshire to tell us about Scotland's

01:06greatest ever athlete and

01:0719th century champion of the world

01:10Donald Dunney

01:11Chris Hoy, Laura Muir, Andy Murray

01:21International icons representing

01:23the very best our country

01:25has to offer. But there is a

01:27Scottish superstar more successful

01:29than all of them. Donald Dunney

01:31He was known as

01:33the greatest athlete of the 19th

01:35century. Historians have described

01:36him as that. He's best known as a

01:38kind of weightlifter, a strongman

01:40but actually he was really outstanding

01:43across a number of different sports

01:45It's fascinating the actual variety of

01:48sports that he was a champion at

01:50it wasn't just track and field

01:52he was an expert across the board

01:54Throwing the hammer, tossing the caber

01:56but also things like the hurdles

01:58and sprinting and things that you

02:00wouldn't really expect for someone to be

02:01that substantially built

02:03to be that good at. He could take

02:05challenges on, not just in Scotland

02:07but he went round the world

02:13One of ten children, Donald Dinney

02:15was born in Eboyne in Aberdeenshire

02:17in 1837

02:19Like his four brothers, Donald worked

02:21as a stonemason alongside

02:23his father, but his heart was set

02:25on a very different career

02:27Dinney began his athletic career

02:29at the age of 16

02:31wrestling local champ David Forbes

02:33Dinney destroyed his opponent

02:35winning the match and the prize money

02:37off one pound

02:39I think he was genetically gifted

02:41I think he came from a very strong

02:43farming stock, so he was already

02:45very muscular naturally

02:47and then he built on that

02:49and became even stronger

02:51through training. He was a talented

02:53all-rounder and went on to compete

02:55in an array of different sports

02:57including putting the stone

02:59hammer throwing, weight lifting

03:01and of course, caber tossing

03:03He was so good that it's been said

03:05that if he had been around at the times of

03:07the modern Olympics, which started in

03:091896

03:11that he would actually have managed to

03:13achieve seven gold medals

03:15across a range of different sports

03:17Over about a 50-year sporting career

03:21Donald acquired many, many medals

03:25We're fortunate enough to have about 59

03:27of them in our collection here in

03:29Aberdeen

03:30These 59 medals reflect some

03:3328,000 pounds in prize money

03:36that he earned over his career

03:38which in contemporary terms

03:40is a phenomenal sum of money

03:42and he won over 11,000 different

03:45sporting contests and championships

03:48so he was quite the man

03:50Dinny performed internationally

03:51in North America, Australia

03:53and New Zealand

03:54and was declared the

03:55all-round champion athlete

03:57of the world

03:58He was sponsored by the

04:00American and Canadian

04:02Caledonian societies

04:04to travel out and take part

04:05in their Highland Games

04:07so he's quite the

04:08Scottish sporting ambassador

04:10and an icon of his time

04:12He was also incredibly media savvy

04:15so we know about him

04:16because of his relationships

04:17that he built up

04:18with the media

04:19so with the press

04:20but he also used it

04:21to get sponsorship

04:23so we think of sports stars

04:25nowadays as being quite

04:26groundbreaking

04:27and getting sponsorship deals

04:28but actually he was one

04:29of the first to do that

04:31But Dinny is best known

04:33for an incredible feat of strength

04:35when in 1860

04:36he carried two boulders

04:38with a combined weight

04:39of 330 kilograms

04:41across the Potarch Bridge

04:43That's the equivalent of carrying

04:45a 25 stone man

04:47in each hand

04:48The stones themselves

04:52were originally used

04:53as counterweights

04:54to help maintain the bridge

04:56but after they'd served

04:57their purpose

04:58were placed back

04:59onto the banks

05:00of the River Dee

05:01and forgotten about

05:02Decades later

05:04after years of searching

05:06the stones were found

05:07in the long grass

05:08by David Webster

05:09who returned them

05:10to where they sit today

05:12but I thought

05:13now the stone

05:14the Dinny stones

05:15what happened to them?

05:16so I went up to

05:18round about

05:19where they would be

05:20I thought

05:21they're not going to carry

05:22these things very far

05:23so where would they go?

05:24where would they dump them

05:25or something like that?

05:26and then I thought

05:27well maybe they'd just

05:28let them drop off the bridge

05:29went in there

05:30and it took about

05:31I would say

05:32over an hour

05:33going

05:34and just about

05:35fed up

05:36of looking

05:37suddenly

05:38I saw

05:39this thing

05:40underneath a shrub

05:41and I thought

05:42wait a minute

05:43we've got

05:44the Dinny stones

05:45you know?

05:46and we were

05:47over the moon

05:48Following David's

05:49rediscovery

05:50of the stones

05:51people have flocked

05:52to Potarch

05:53from far and wide

05:54to see if they too

05:55can match

05:56Dinny's feet of strength

05:57including some

05:58famous faces

05:59My name's James Crossley

06:00I'm here

06:01lived in the Dinny stones

06:02and I used to be

06:03Hunter on Gladiator

06:04I found out about this

06:05a couple of years ago

06:06and I was training for it

06:08and just to do a little tour

06:09of Scotland

06:10and I kind of thought

06:11hmm, maybe I could get

06:12the record of this

06:13so I trained last year

06:14for four months

06:15all I thought about

06:16all I did

06:17and you know

06:18that's where it came from

06:19really seeking that challenge

06:20and last year I got the world record

06:23Despite his multiple achievements

06:25and successes

06:26Dinny struggled financially

06:27in later life

06:28and continued performing

06:30into his 70s

06:31just to make ends meet

06:33I think he actually ended

06:34his days in London

06:35so he didn't stay in Scotland

06:36the whole time

06:37and at one point

06:38opened a chip shop

06:39I think

06:40from what I can gather

06:41towards the end of his life

06:42because he did actually

06:43towards the end of his life

06:45he was in poverty

06:46On April 2nd, 1916

06:49Dinny passed away

06:50at his home in London

06:51at the age of 78

06:53In his obituary

06:54the New York Times

06:55called Dinny

06:56the greatest athlete Scotland

06:58ever produced

06:59a sentiment

07:00that resonated

07:01throughout the world

07:02he had a charisma about him

07:04he was tough

07:06he was rough

07:07he didn't mince his words

07:09I don't know

07:10I just have this image

07:11of him as being a bit of a

07:12wheeler-dealer

07:13because he was such an entrepreneur

07:14and pushing his own agenda

07:15and his own brand

07:16I think he must have been

07:17quite an outgoing character

07:18to do that

07:19He'd be a good person

07:20to spend a night out with

07:21full of stories

07:23Today his name lives on

07:26as people come from

07:27all over the world

07:28to lift the Dinny Stones

07:30and emulate

07:31his astonishing achievement

07:46Do you think you could lift

07:47the Dinny Stones, Fergus?

07:48Not a chance

07:49I quite fancy my chances

07:50No?

07:51No

07:52No

07:53Well, from lifting stones

07:54to felling trees

07:55when the Second World War

07:56broke out

07:57Millions of people

07:58from around the world

07:59came to help

08:00with the British war effort

08:01Including 900 volunteers

08:02from tropical Belize

08:03who found themselves

08:04in Scotland

08:18During the Second World War

08:19timber was an immensely

08:20important material

08:21it was one of the most

08:23vitally important elements

08:24needed for the war effort

08:26But there was a problem

08:28There weren't enough

08:30forestry workers left

08:31to do the work

08:32The British government

08:34put out a call for help

08:36and the Empire answered

08:38People from all over the Empire

08:40came and fought

08:41As well as serving in the forces

08:44men and women from the Caribbean

08:46also worked in civilian industries

08:47during the war

08:48including over 900 men

08:51who came from British Honduras

08:53modern day Belize

08:54to work as lumberjacks

08:56in the forests of Scotland

08:58The call went out

08:59across the whole of the world

09:00really

09:01looking for experienced

09:02lumberjacks and tree fellers

09:03to come to the UK

09:04to help with timber production

09:05in the war

09:06and what happened was that

09:08timberjacks from Australia

09:10New Zealand

09:11Newfoundland

09:12Canada

09:13Canada

09:14but also Belize

09:15or British Honduras

09:16as it was then

09:17came across to help

09:18So why did your grandfather

09:20come across to Scotland

09:21from British Honduras?

09:22So

09:23he used to be a lumberjack

09:26back in Belize

09:27which was

09:28former British Honduras

09:29and they got offered

09:30to volunteer

09:31during the war

09:32to come across to the UK

09:34and help

09:35other countries

09:36as they used to call it

09:37and it was him and a convoy

09:39of about 800 men

09:41came across in 1942

09:44And we all came

09:46and we were divided all over

09:48Scotland

09:49and out to south

09:51in different camps

09:53to do forestry work

09:56for the war effort

09:58Getting from Belize

09:59to Scotland in 1941

10:01wasn't simple

10:02it took nearly three weeks

10:04just to get here

10:05from Central America

10:06So we travelled from Belize

10:08to New York

10:09and then from New York

10:10across

10:11and

10:12yeah they had a pit stop

10:13I think in New Orleans

10:14but I think they weren't

10:15allowed off the boat

10:16They were put at the very bottom

10:18because they were people of colour

10:20so

10:21they kind of had a rough journey

10:23So predominantly

10:24the main locations

10:26where they were based

10:27were in East Lothian

10:28and also in Berwickshire

10:29but there were also some

10:30based up in the Highlands

10:31and Western Ross

10:32and that sort of part of the world as well

10:33I mean living in the Caribbean

10:35the sun

10:36like nice turquoise water

10:38and arriving to Scotland

10:40and freezing

10:41cold

10:42rainy

10:43I don't think he could have seen anything like it

10:45We've got to take a quick break

10:54but join us again in a couple of minutes

10:55when we hear more about the Lumberjacks from Belize

10:58and Albie and Arvind learning about what was Europe's largest leisure centre

11:02the Magnum

11:03see you after the break

11:21Welcome back to the People's History Show

11:23Now before the break

11:24we were taking a look at the story of the Lumberjacks from Belize

11:27let's hear more about those remarkable men

11:29I think initially it was really tough for them

11:42the first group that came over came over in the late autumn into the winter of 1941

11:48they were having to stay in tents initially

11:50I mean obviously they were strong physically tough guys that were used to working in timber

11:56but even so I think it was a really big demand for them

11:58and they did really really well to put up with it quite honestly

12:01we went into the village in Woolapoon

12:04they were surprised to see the black men coming

12:09they said the kids were all running about

12:13and they think it was all cold men coming into the village

12:18and I think they were nervous

12:22because they all disappeared

12:25but it didn't take long

12:27they become real friends

12:29they were good to us

12:32they treat us the best

12:34because it was war during that time

12:41So Yutso we've got three lads and a lass here

12:44who are re-enactors for the Newfoundland style

12:47of cutting down trees and all the work that they did at that time

12:50this is very similar to what your grandad would have done then

12:53I think it must have been

12:54it just looked like incredibly hard work

12:56can you imagine what it was like for your grandad doing this

12:58what ten hours a day or something

13:00every single day

13:01It would have been hard work

13:03but I'm sure the boys must have had a great laugh doing it as well

13:06The good news for you Yutso is you're going to have a wee go

13:09I don't know if you've told you that yet

13:10I'll give it a try

13:11I'd like to be a good man

13:13I'm sorry mate you're an absolute natural at this

13:18your grandad's genes are very strong in you

13:24This is what Gramps did

13:26Is it hard to do?

13:27It's quite a job

13:28Yeah it feels hard

13:29For this you don't need to go to the gym I don't think

13:31No

13:33Sweet

13:37Only 99 to go

13:40The British Honduran unit was disbanded in 1943

13:44Most of the men made their way back home

13:46but some were offered the chance to stay

13:48and 100 of them did exactly that

13:51One of them was Sam Martinez

13:54I think only 100 people got asked whether they wanted to stay in the UK

13:59as British citizens

14:00or get repatriated back to their countries

14:03so he was one of them

14:05and he decided to stay

14:07leaving family and friends behind in Belize

14:10and they settled in Edinburgh

14:12I think it was Harold Macmillan who gave them that offer

14:16and when Harold Macmillan came up to Edinburgh

14:19he said boys this is your country as well as mine

14:22and you're welcome to stay

14:25It's important to remember that wars are fought on all fronts

14:28by all sorts of people doing all sorts of work

14:32The Belize volunteers travelled thousands of miles

14:35when the call came they answered

14:39It's one of those jobs that kind of gets forgotten about

14:41but if you think about it

14:43nothing else could really have been done without that work being done

14:45because without that we wouldn't have been able to manufacture things

14:48we wouldn't be able to make tanks and guns and planes

14:51and all the other things that came out of industry

14:53I think it's important for people to know that

14:55we had black people

14:57we had Indians

14:58we had all sorts of cultures

14:59coming into the UK to help

15:01and especially with our politics nowadays

15:03of looking for separation

15:05we should be looking for more unity

15:07I'd never heard of that

15:17what an incredible story

15:18yeah it's quite remarkable

15:19it really is

15:20now if you're anything like me when you were younger

15:22you spent a lot of your weekends at the local leisure centre

15:25but did you know that the largest in Europe was found in Irvine?

15:29yeah I used to go there a lot

15:30it was of course the Magnum

15:41in the 1970s when there wasn't concert venues round every corner

15:45and leisure centres galore

15:46the biggest and best of its kind was found right here in Irvine

15:50the Magnum

15:51the Magnum

15:58historically speaking was when it opened up

16:00it was as big a deal as it could be in Scotland

16:05it was where skills were honed on the ice rink

16:07world class gigs were played

16:09and where friendships and romance blossomed

16:12for Irvine and the west coast of Scotland

16:14the Magnum was the place to go

16:17this field right here was the Magnum

16:21in fact 20 years ago

16:23I could have been standing in a swimming pool

16:25you could do anything here

16:26you could swim

16:27you could skate

16:28you could play badminton

16:30so when you're that age

16:31when you're between pub age

16:33not old enough at the pub

16:35a bit too old to sit on me

16:36and my dad on Saturday night

16:37it was a life saver

16:38as long as I can remember

16:40I was always around the Magnum Centre

16:42my mum took me all the time

16:44we went to concerts

16:47on Saturday

16:48where we go to Joanne's show

16:50it was the highlight of our week

16:51and then Sunday it was quite Michael Cavalcade

16:53the Magnum opened in 1976

16:57and at the time

16:58was the largest leisure centre in Europe

17:01in fact

17:02at one point

17:03Edinburgh Castle

17:04was the only visitor attraction in Scotland

17:06that surpassed the numbers of visitors to the Magnum

17:09it cost a whopping 3.2 million pounds

17:13you could do everything at the Magnum

17:15from swimming

17:16skating

17:17cinema

17:18bowls

17:19dog shows

17:20dance shows

17:21gymnastics

17:22fitness classes

17:23variety shows

17:24high profile concerts

17:25the list was endless

17:26under one roof

17:27and a lot of things

17:28that you could

17:30you could do

17:31that catered for

17:32young old

17:33all alike

17:34so much there

17:35to offer that wasn't there before

17:36and that was I think the appeal

17:39the building itself

17:40might not have been regarded by some

17:42as the most aesthetically pleasing

17:43but

17:44it's hard to deny

17:45its cultural impact

17:46on urban's history

17:47from the beginning

17:48it was a huge success

17:50with an annual average attendance

17:52of more than 1 million people

17:54and the closer you got to the Magnum

17:56the more you started to cross your fingers

17:58because there was always a big queue to get in

18:00unbelievable

18:02hard to think of nowadays

18:03but it would be a big queue to get in

18:04and the sign would say full or not full

18:07and it wasn't the first time you queued

18:09all the way up the ramp

18:10to get to the door

18:11and then be told it was full

18:13and you couldn't get in

18:14it became the cultural hub for urban

18:17and it was massively popular with all the locals

18:20and it only cost 25 feet to get in

18:23there was quite a few friends

18:25and we always went skating

18:26and I sometimes helped out in the ice rink

18:28as an ice steward

18:29so I had just went down that day

18:32not expecting to meet anybody

18:34and there was a whole group of people

18:36and they were all there

18:38and I met my husband in the centre of the ice rink

18:41just like that?

18:42just like that

18:43it was love at first sight

18:44love that!

18:46but it wasn't just fun family activities the Magnum had

18:50it was also a great music venue

18:53the facilities were easily the best at the time

18:56which was one of the reasons that the Magnum became the must be place

19:00for many of the top artists at the time

19:02the first big concert took place on the 5th of May 1980

19:06when the one and only Madness took to the stage

19:09the precedent had been set

19:11and loads of other huge artists took to the stage

19:13from The Jam, The Smiths, The Clash

19:16and even Chuck Berry played at the Magnum

19:19and the day The Clash played

19:21I was too young for The Clash as well

19:23but it was in the mall with my brother

19:24and I heard somebody saying

19:25hey it's The Clash

19:26and I turned round

19:27and I didn't know who The Clash were

19:29I didn't know who The Clash were

19:30but it was clearly some sort of rock group

19:32right

19:33surrounded by older guys from school

19:35so that was the kind of thing that happened

19:37this was probably one of the first concerts we went to

19:40as boyfriends and girlfriends

19:42this was our big country concert

19:44I love that!

19:46that's amazing

19:47so you got that one as a nice new memento

19:49that was a memento

19:50Irvine had become the home of live music in Scotland

19:53the success of The Magnum as a music venue

19:56in the 80s and 90s

19:57was mainly down to Irvine's Mr Entertainment

20:00Willy Freckleton

20:02he was the one with a vision to secure performances

20:04from some of the biggest artists

20:06and he did this by offering

20:08what was the largest indoor concert hall in Europe

20:10at the time

20:11rent free

20:12it wasn't just the music that was an important part

20:15of The Magnum Centre

20:16world champions were crowned here

20:18at both balls and boxing

20:19ice skaters danced their way into the Olympics

20:22and for everyone else

20:24there was the ever popular Frosties Ice Disco

20:27looking through all of these archives

20:30you can just see how important the Magnum was to the Irvine community

20:33we were looking at the Irvine times here

20:35this one is from 1977

20:37this one is from 79

20:39this is from 1990

20:40and the Magnum just comes up

20:42and almost every issue is everywhere

20:44sadly the economics of keeping the centre going over the years

20:51made it no longer viable

20:53it closed its doors in 2016

20:55and The Magnum was demolished in 2017

20:58the place was dead

20:59there was hardly anybody there

21:01it seemed a shame

21:02from when you used to go down in the 80s

21:05and it would be like

21:06all the courts would be full

21:07and it would be like

21:08it was just buzzing

21:09and it was just

21:10so much going on

21:11all the time

21:12for me I've got all the memories

21:13and I'll never forget

21:14the memories

21:15because it was

21:16it was my life

21:17and I was

21:18kind of brought up with the Magnum there

21:20so I'll never forget it

21:22local people will walk by them

21:24and it's a strange feeling

21:25because you expect something to be there

21:27that's not there

21:28it was a hugely ambitious project for the town

21:31but

21:32it worked

21:33and its success is evident in the memories

21:35that are very much still alive today

21:38it's amazing how one place can have such a big impact on a town

21:42very true

21:43join us next week

21:44to hear more tales from Scotland's history

21:46on the People's History Show

21:47goodnight

22:03hallett

22:06thank you

22:07etus

22:12hope

22:13let's see you down

22:14there

22:16hopefully

22:17go

22:22it is

22:23You

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