Georgetown President Pressed On Professor Who Described Oct. 7 As 'Resistance'

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At a House Education and Workforce Committee hearing, Rep. Mark Messmer (R-IN) questioned Dr. Robert M. Groves, Interim President of Georgetown University.

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00:00I recognize the gentleman from Indiana, Mr. Messmer.

00:04Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:06Mr. Medos-Rogriguez, following up on Ms. Stefanik's line of questioning from earlier,

00:11in 2021, you hired Saleh Abdallah as CUNY's Chief Diversity Officer,

00:17despite her previous employment at the Council of American-Islamic Relations, or CARE.

00:23The Director of CARE said after the October 7th attacks that he was happy to see people breaking the siege.

00:30Is CARE an anti-Semitic organization?

00:33Again, the comment that you described is entirely unacceptable and inappropriate.

00:39I don't care. I don't know about their policy about being anti-Semitic or not.

00:44For the City University of New York, we do not tolerate anti-Semitism of any kind.

00:49Okay, thank you.

00:49You previously stated that Abdallah does not handle cases directly pertaining to students and faculty,

00:55but she is the Chief Diversity Officer.

00:57Considering her background, was it appropriate to hire her to oversee CUNY's anti-discrimination efforts?

01:04Again, that hire was not a direct hire that I made.

01:08Our commitment is that all our employees and faculty and staff abide by our policies and by our code of conduct,

01:15which would include no tolerance for anti-Semitism.

01:20That's the conduct that we expect, and if any employee is seen to be breaking those rules,

01:27they'll be investigated and the appropriate disciplinary action will be taken.

01:32Okay.

01:33You have said that Abdallah's work at CARE is consistent with CUNY's commitments to inclusion and respect.

01:38Do you remain confident that she can objectively investigate anti-Semitism at CUNY?

01:43We have had no complaints with that employee, and again, as I said before,

01:51our commitment is if any member of the CUNY community, faculty, staff, or student violates our policies,

01:58violates our code of conduct, we will investigate.

02:01We've done it, and we've taken action.

02:03Has she been removed from any anti-Semitism investigations at this point?

02:07Again, there was one case in which, in the petition by an individual involved, suggested,

02:17and we accommodate that individual.

02:20Okay.

02:20Chancellor Early, you said that only three of the seven students were disciplined at CUNY

02:24for their participation in an encampment.

02:27Why were only three disciplined, and what kind of discipline did they receive?

02:31Again, I cannot speak to the specific cases of discipline.

02:36We work with the district attorney's office in that case, and they were individuals that were engaged

02:46in breaking into the administrative building at City College.

02:52As I indicated before in my testimony, the experience of that encampment is one that we've taken to heart.

02:59We have zero tolerance for encampments in CUNY right now,

03:03and we have doubled down in our efforts to make sure that our rules about time, place, and matter

03:09are clear to the students, and we've also invested heavily in additional security

03:14to be able to prevent any such situation occurring again.

03:18Okay. Thank you.

03:19Chancellor Lyons.

03:21Berkeley Professor Osama Makdisi described Hamas' October 7th attack as resistance.

03:28He also reposted an article praising determination and courage of Hamas terrorists,

03:34saying they heroically defended their homeland.

03:37Do these statements endorse violence against Jewish people?

03:44I cannot speak to the specific elements of that.

03:50Different people have different views on that.

03:53Any call to violence or repeat of the horrific violence of October 7th, in my perspective,

04:03is objectionable and unacceptable.

04:06So those that would view those remarks that way would have to take it the same way.

04:13They are unobjectionable and arguably a call to violence.

04:17About a year after the October 7th attack, Berkeley rewarded him by naming him the inaugural chair

04:24of a new Palestinian studies program.

04:28This is one of the demands of the UC Berkeley's violent anti-Semitic encampment in April of 2024.

04:34Berkeley contributed $500,000 to this new program.

04:38I know you were not chancellor then when it was stood up,

04:41but in your view, was this decision to appease anti-Semitic violent student demonstrators wrong or right?

04:46I can't speak to the context.

04:49I don't have the facts or the circumstances upon the making of that investment in that program.

04:54I will also say that a very similar investment was made in our Jewish studies program at the same time.

05:01Okay. Thank you.

05:02I'll yield back the rest of my time.

05:04I thank the gentleman.

05:05I recognize the gentleman from Washington, Mr. Baumgartner.

05:10Thank you, Mr. Chair.

05:12Well, it very much pains me what has happened to higher education in America and its current status.

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