Creator/Executive Producer Harriet Warner, Executive Producer Colin Callender and Lead Actors Alice Englert and Nicholas Denton talk to The Inside Reel about psychology, ambition and the thematics of perception in regards to the first season of their Starz drama series: "Dangerous Liaisons."
00:33The thematics of dangerous liaisons has always been interesting, but the aspect of perspective and chaos versus control are these sort of circling themes that sort of move around each other.
00:47Can you sort of talk about that from the perspective of what you wanted to bring to this, because it feels so much different than things we've seen before in terms of adaptations of it?
00:57That's really interesting.
00:59It's funny, the character of Camille, immediately, I mean, Colin and I have been developing this for a long time and we're hugely, like it's our life in so many ways.
01:14And this reinterpretation of the Marquis de Matoy as Camille through Alice's extraordinary performance, even from conception of that character, I always thought she was this extraordinary agent of change.
01:32You know, she was a revolution in herself and that's one of the reasons that one of the key changes to the novel, even though we are very much 18th century as the novel was, we come slightly later so that we can use, you know, key events in French history that really feel so true to the character of Camille.
01:54Someone who can come in and start a revolution, be it personal or political, and the same for Valmon, these two characters who break the rules, the very rigid rules of society, driven to take huge risk because that ultimately they are these primal beasts in a very elegant way.
02:22Beasts in a very elegant and manicured garden rather than a jungle.
02:29And I think, as you as you point out, it's that control of that world, in a way, really heightens the reckless need, desire filled characters that we have and really where we ultimately take them is to really crystallize that in the times.
03:18Dangerously, it's always been the aspect of masks.
03:21But the thing I love about with Camille and Valmont is that there's so much empathy, even in their chicanery and the way they approach things.
03:30Because even when they're doing the most dastardly things, there's always that wisp in the back of their heads, which is a hard thing to balance when you're playing these kind of characters.
03:39Can you talk about the approach?
03:41I don't want to give too much away, but from your point of view psychologically, because there has to be something to be gained and something to be lost.
03:49Yeah, that's such a good point, because I feel like, yeah, I mean, I think like real manipulation requires a huge amount of empathy and compassion that then somehow doesn't quite hit the heart.
04:07Like, you know, like that comes in as information.
04:12Yeah.
04:12And then I guess.
04:15I think manipulation in many regards, it comes from knowing so much about other people and having things done to you is when you become best at that kind of game of manipulation.
04:26If you have a sense of trauma or a sense of deep-seated vulnerability within oneself, that's when you start to know which tack to take for each different person.
04:36And I think that's why these cats can do it so beautifully, because they do have a sense of trauma, which I think we unpack quite lovely in this season.
04:44And there's a sense that nothing is sacred, because they have never experienced anything to be sacred, you know, so it's like, it's just how does the, you know, how do they, how do you make space for an innocence and a hope that is kind of a joke in the world?
05:09And, you know, you have to, you have to accept the potentiality of being a loser in the game, you know, it's like, and they aren't of that ilk.
05:23It's such a fool to wait for you all the time she's waiting to.
05:27It's not the same.
05:28My love for you is the only thing I am sure of.
05:31Then what would you give to have me back?
05:33Everything.
05:36There is a woman in Paris.
05:38If you could seduce her, that might show me you are capable of understanding love.
05:43Then let me prove it.
05:44I want a better life for both of us.
05:47I liked what you were saying, though, Alice, about eventuality.
05:52But going back to what Nicholas said about trauma, because eventuality and trauma sort of integrate, because they lead to that end point.
06:00And this is true of both characters, you know, and both see the eventuality of what might happen.
06:06Can you sort of talk about sort of that aspect of trauma, but also strategy, because every action has an equal and opposite reaction, whether it be the marquee, whether it be any of these people.
06:18Yeah, I mean, sorry, this is just so enjoyable.
06:23This is so good.
06:24This is all the stuff.
06:25No, it's really good.
06:26Yeah, I always, I don't know.
06:29Like, I think I felt like Camille's power in this season is that she feels quite Kimi that she has nothing to lose.
06:41So there's a kind of, there's something, the kind of the trauma that she's experienced is a kind of kiln for every one of her actions, you know, to take.
06:54I mean, when you have, when you have a lot, when you have things that actually make you feel safe, the world feels more dangerous, you know, because they feel delicate.
07:06They feel breakable.
07:07And I think she just has a kind of almost like karmic force to her that feels like, you know, she, I think, feels supernatural in a sense.
07:24Because I don't think she sees herself as a person anymore, because I don't think she feels like she's ever been seen as a person.
07:33She feels kind of unreal.
07:36She's been an object of people's desire and dreams and then abuse.
07:42And I think she feels that now she's going to lean into being their nightmare and follow that all the way through.
07:52And there's something, you can't be hurt anymore when it's just, because she just turns it into ammunition, you know, instead of insult.
08:02Your glove.
08:05It is yours, surely.
08:06And now I see it could not possibly be, for you have quite a pair of your own.
08:11We are in God's house, monsieur.
08:14I do not come here to talk of gloves or other vanities with strangers.
08:19But don't you want to show us any silk?
08:21Of course, my apologies.
08:23The skin's so delicate, anything else would be like grit to an oyster.
08:30It's also flipping so many different ideas of it.
08:34This isn't giving away too much, but, you know, the perspective of, say, the labyrinth or different things, how gender is seen, how, you know, the power of sex is seen versus the idea of the marriage and societal norms.
08:48And that's all integrated in here.
08:51And yet, you see empathy between these, in these two characters of Camille and Vaumont.
08:57Because the thing is, is that you won't feel for them unless you see that there is a slight crack, even if they're doing dastardly things or things that people would say, okay, I get why they're doing that.
09:08Well, that's the brilliance of Harriet's writing and also glory of the performances from Alice and Nicholas.
09:15Because what Harriet does is she takes her characters to places where they do things that are sort of, at times, really sort of awful.
09:28Sorry.
09:28That's human behaviour.
09:30People do awful things.
09:32And yet you still care for them.
09:33And the bravery of being able to show a character with all their flaws in that way is unusual and rather glorious, actually.
09:46Tim, I think it's really interesting kind of what you, how you kind of viewed that though, because it is, it's so key to what we've kind of wanted, which is we will hopefully go on this journey because, as you point out, the humanity, but also in us understanding why those two are driven to do what they do.
10:06And I think my excitement for this interpretation, having gone to this wonderful novel, really, I think the key thing I wanted to do was understand the behaviour of those two iconic characters of the novel and Christopher Hampton's wonderful adaptation of them for the movie that I think is so much in people's minds if they know this title.
10:33Talk about letter 81.
10:34Yeah, to really understand those two and to then, in a way, go on that journey with them.
10:43But I think, as Colin's saying, one of my key unlocks for even thinking about this as a television drama, as in why do another adaptation of Dangerous Liaisons, it has been covered in such brilliant ways.
10:56But there was one letter, letter 81, from the Marquise de Matoy, where she really writes of herself as a construct.
11:03She's taught herself to live a certain life, but feel a certain way and never let those two things meet or be exposed.
11:11And really, my interpretation was of this woman who's found a way to survive and navigate this world, but wasn't necessarily naturally from it.
11:21And so I thought, wow, is this is this the space that we get to live in?
11:25And I talked to Colin about it and we were both excited that this actually could be a prelude.
11:31This is the story of how we get there and a story of sort of innocence to experience to corruption.
11:38And so we do get to that incredible territory of the novel of of provocative immorality, which is exciting.
11:46To get what you truly want in this city, you must destroy everything and everyone that stands between you and it.
11:57You have something that belongs to me.
11:59Your dignity.
12:00You can't win against that sort of power.
12:03You know how dangerous this is.
12:05You know how dangerous this is.
12:22You know how dangerous this is.
12:24This is the story of how strong this is.
12:29This is the story of how strong this insider's power is about.
