- 14/7/2025
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02:29You know, to anybody, unless somebody calls them and asks me to tell them what happened.
02:38It's not a source of conversation over coffee.
02:41If I didn't think the government was withholding information on the overall situation,
02:48I wouldn't be sitting here being interviewed for one day.
02:55It doesn't get any easier.
02:57Because every time that I tell somebody about it, I feel like I'm 12 years old again.
03:07They might regularly land outside on oceans or in uninhabited parts of countries,
03:15but they might also not be ready to tell us.
03:19He said, he said, I mean the rest of your life.
03:28We will find you.
03:29Tell us what actually happened.
03:31Well, well, finally got back home.
03:58I don't know how you cook too, Roswell.
04:01Rough.
04:02Oh, man, tiring.
04:04I'm happy to be back home, I guarantee you.
04:07Yeah.
04:08It's quite an ordeal.
04:10I spent all day looking for that ranch where we found the stuff.
04:14Uh-huh.
04:15We're finally located.
04:16It was too late to take pictures, so we had to drive all the way back into Roswell.
04:20I tell you, I enjoyed going out there, but it's just too hard on me.
04:24So I'm getting too old for that kind of stuff.
04:27We can say that, but...
04:29Yeah, but I got to the point where I couldn't even walk.
04:33I mean, it's tiring.
04:34We had trouble finding the place to begin with.
04:37We searched the whole day for the place.
04:39But when I saw the place, I recognized it.
04:41Well, that's good.
04:42So the house where Mr. Brazell used to live, they renovated the whole thing.
04:51It's a boat.
04:52I can't believe it was Boger who lives there.
04:54He took over the grass, and he was very helpful.
04:58In fact, he took us right to the spot, and he knew exactly where he was.
05:01Uh-huh.
05:02So we were lucky in that respect.
05:04Yeah.
05:04And I walked over that entire area.
05:07That's happening.
05:08But I did recognize the exact spot.
05:11Oh, you did?
05:11Oh, yeah.
05:12I took him to the exact spot where that club was found.
05:15But there wasn't any debris out there, I guess.
05:17Oh, no.
05:18Lord, that thing is vacuum-cleaned.
05:20Uh-huh.
05:21There's nothing left.
05:22Roswell right now is composed mostly of retirees.
05:27It's a beautiful sight, the illumination around that place.
05:30Uh-huh.
05:31But I really enjoyed that.
05:33So my trip was worthwhile anyway.
05:34Well, I'm glad.
05:35I'm very happy about that.
05:37Well, son.
05:38It makes me feel better, too.
05:39I tell you what, I'd love to live there again.
05:42Well, I would, too, you know.
05:44And I spent quite a bit of time with Walter Hough.
05:47I went to his art store.
05:49We had dinner together Tuesday night, Wednesday night, rather.
05:53So everything went okay.
05:55Well.
05:55I had a big time.
05:56It sure sounds like it.
05:57I'm very, very happy for you.
05:58That makes me feel better, you know.
05:59It takes me down out of my...
06:01Yeah.
06:01...of my woman.
06:02No, I'm telling you.
06:04Well, son, I'm going to let you go out.
06:05Okay, Daniel.
06:06Look, I'll give you all a call next week.
06:08Okay, fine.
06:09Keep your chin up and have as much fun as you can.
06:11Okay.
06:11I think there were 15,000 people living in Roswell,
06:22and 7,000 of them were out at the base.
06:24It was a huge benefit to the community.
06:27Now, Roswell was probably one of the most patriotic towns
06:30in the whole United States.
06:31We saved every tin can around.
06:34We scraped the tinfoil off of gum wrappers.
06:40We saved the string.
06:42We turned everything in for the war effort.
06:45And even two years afterwards, we were still doing it.
07:01The secret of events, as I've been able to establish them in my mind,
07:08is you've got radar sightings taking place early in July,
07:12first, second, third of July.
07:14You've got people watching this thing with great interest.
07:16I mean, here we are over the site where the atomic bomb was detonated in 1945.
07:22Atomic research still continues.
07:24The 509th Bomb Group and rockets being launched from Alamogordo.
07:27So it's an area of high interest, especially to a space-traveling race.
07:31Friday, July 4th.
07:34The object disappears from the scopes.
07:36There's reason to suspect it's down.
07:39The next morning, we've got an archaeology team out there.
07:43We also have a man and a woman.
07:46This story now begins like every science fiction movie you've ever seen.
07:50I've got a couple out in the desert.
07:52She's married.
07:53He's not.
07:53They're not supposed to be there.
07:55The thing roars overhead and slams into the ground.
07:58They look at it the night before, but they're so drunk.
08:00They don't do anything about it.
08:02The next morning, they sneak back to see what's going on.
08:04About the time, the archaeology team shows up.
08:07The archaeologists send someone back to call the sheriff.
08:10The sheriff alerts the 509th Bomb Group.
08:13We've got trucks coming in on the morning of July 5th.
08:16A military cordon going up around the area here close to Roswell.
08:20And this is what's critical.
08:21Why do you put up guards on the roads right off Highway 285 just north of town if all you've got is the debris field some 75 miles northwest?
08:33You don't need to do that.
08:34If the craft impacts much closer to Roswell, then the guards make perfect sense.
08:38You want to keep people out of the area.
08:40The team picks up the bodies at that location.
08:44They're brought back to Hangar 84.
08:46The debris is brought back to this area.
08:49It's transported out on the night of July 5th.
08:52The next day, they're sitting around congratulating themselves.
08:55Aren't we bright?
08:56We've got this thing contained.
08:57Nobody knows what's happened.
09:00Mack Brazel shows up at the sheriff's office with a box full of the debris.
09:05Clearly, this is something else.
09:07When Kevin came to you, did you then come to your family after that?
09:26Not for about two years.
09:28Not for about two years.
09:31The first two years that Kevin called me, I wouldn't talk to him.
09:35And then finally, he told me, he said, we've been to a meeting, and we know the firemen were out there.
09:45We know that your dad was on the crew that went out there.
09:49We think you must know something.
09:51Will you come and talk to us?
09:52So I agreed to come and talk to him, and they were staying here at the Roswell Inn.
09:59I was making a trip to Pertalus to see my daughter and stopped to see them on my way back.
10:07And we had a conversation about, yes, I knew that there had been a craft that had crashed,
10:14but we didn't go into details on it.
10:18And Kevin was talking about the Corona site.
10:22And after our conversation, I told him, we're not talking about the same thing.
10:28Apparently, what you have heard does not match what I know about, because the location is wrong.
10:35I said, the place where Daddy went, he did not go to Corona, and he would not have gone to Corona.
10:42The Roswell Fire Department would not have gone to Corona.
10:48So at that point, they started looking for clues to this other crash site.
10:55When I told him where Daddy said it was.
11:02So that's how this started.
11:07That's how it all came out, anyway.
11:21My name is Frankie Rowe, R-O-W-E.
11:25I know you've probably told this story a million times, but if you could tell it as fresh as possible for the audience, it would be great.
11:36Just tell me what happened when your dad came home that day.
11:41The very first time that I heard about this at all.
11:46Daddy came home from work.
11:48They worked shifts of a type that they would be on duty maybe 24 hours or 36 hours and then off 8 or 12, like that.
12:01So we hadn't seen him for a time.
12:04And he got home that evening, and he came in so excited.
12:08I was in the kitchen with Mother.
12:12And he asked Mother, he said, I've got something I want to tell everybody.
12:17Get everybody in here.
12:18And she said, we're cooking supper right now.
12:21And he said, well, how long is it going to be?
12:23Because I've got to talk to everybody.
12:26And it was just my mother and myself and the three younger kids at home and my other sister was working.
12:31So we hurried, and we got it on the table and called the kids in.
12:37And he started telling us that they had gone on a call of what they thought was going to be a plane crash north of Roswell.
12:48And he said they got called out to Blackwater Draw.
12:50And when they got out there, what they saw was not a plane that was our plane, but he said it was a flying craft from somewhere else.
13:07Well, we didn't ask questions, but Mother asked all the questions.
13:11And we were just listening, and she started, what do you mean somewhere else?
13:14And he said, it's not an airplane.
13:16He said, it's not from this world.
13:17Now, here on this map are pinpointed locations where some 30 saucers have been sighted and are still unexplained.
13:26The following proposition could be established.
13:29There actually have been and may now be present in the Earth's atmosphere strange aerial objects.
13:36Some are of a geometric order.
13:39Others can only be described as brilliant life sources.
13:42Their form cannot be determined.
13:45He said the crash.
13:47It was like the flying saucers that they had talked about because there had been a few comments on the news about flying saucers.
13:57And he said it was one of the flying saucers crashed.
14:00And I don't think really Mother believed him at first.
14:05And he said, no, he said, I mean it.
14:07We went out there early today, which I don't know what time that was, but early to him, could have been that they left before dark.
14:16And he said, when they got there, they could see that there were two bodies that were laying on the ground outside of this craft.
14:27And that there was one, what he called, and that there was one, what he called a little person.
14:30And he said, there's one little person that was walking around.
14:33And he said, they were still alive.
14:35So she asked him, you know, what do they look like?
14:44Do they look like us?
14:45And he said, they were very small, about the size of a small 10-year-old child.
14:51But the head looked like the little insect that we played with or that we saw around our house called Child of the Earth.
15:02We all knew what that looked like, so nobody asked any questions on that.
15:06We assumed that the head was too large for the body, and it had no hair, and it would have large eyes.
15:17We knew that because that's what the Child of the Earth insect looks like.
15:21He said, they looked quite a bit like us.
15:26He said, they were a lot smaller than we are.
15:29Because when he said, a small 10-year-old child, I knew he meant smaller than I was.
15:34And I wasn't very big at 12 years old.
15:36I was a little small for my age.
15:38And he said that the other two were dead, and that this one that was alive was very sad.
15:54But he emphasized, and he kept saying, there's no need for us to be afraid.
16:00They're not here to hurt us.
16:02And he said, we couldn't help them.
16:06And he was more upset over the fact that they couldn't help this little person.
16:11And that's something he really felt badly, that he couldn't help this one that was alive.
16:21He said, you could feel the hurt from this little person that was so saddened by the death of the others with him.
16:32And apparently they hadn't been there but just a few minutes.
16:36And he said, the military came up, and they made them leave.
16:45And so they went back to the fire station, and he said there had not been a grass fire, which would have been their purpose for going.
16:52And they thought there, you know, there could have been if it had been a normal plane crash.
16:59I don't think Mother really wanted to believe it at first.
17:03And he talked about how could we be so slugged to think that we were the only ones that God could create.
17:12If he could create this earth, he could create a lot of others too.
17:18So that was just a conversation over dinner that night.
17:22And then there wasn't too much said about it for the next couple of days.
17:30Then I was at the fire station one afternoon because I'd gotten sick.
17:35I had to see the doctor, and we only had one vehicle.
17:39So I went back to work with Daddy.
17:41He came home at noon and picked me up on his lunch.
17:45And I had gone to the doctor and was sitting in the kitchen part of the fire station.
17:50And I was eating a glass of ice chips.
17:56And a state policeman came in, and he yelled at Daddy.
18:00He said, hey, Dad, come over here.
18:01He said, get all the guys.
18:02I want to show you guys something.
18:04The state policeman reached into his pocket.
18:06And he said, I don't think you guys got to see anything like this the other day.
18:12And he pulled his hand out of his pocket, and it was closed up.
18:18He opened his hand over the table and dropped a piece of material that, when it hit the table,
18:26it was all watered up when it left his hand.
18:29And when it hit the table, it spread out like it was water.
18:34And they were asking him, you know, how'd you get by with this?
18:39And he said, well, he had helped with some of the pickup of debris.
18:43And he had managed to sneak that one piece in his pocket.
18:49He said, I don't know how long I'll get to keep this before I get caught.
18:53Because he said, everybody they catch, they're taking away whatever they've got.
18:57Last count, I had spoken to around four dozen people who handled various aspects of the debris.
19:05The most dramatic is the foil-like material that you could wad up in a ball and let it go, and it would unfold itself.
19:13A lot of people reported that.
19:15What kind of material did we have in 1947 that had those properties?
19:22There were things like foil backed with cloth that, when you wad it up, it would tend to unfold itself somewhat.
19:28But there were always the signs of creases.
19:30And some of the people were very specific.
19:32There was no sign of a crease or a fold in this thing when it was let down.
19:35And after a while, they tried to burn it.
19:39They, almost all of them carried the large, the old-fashioned lighters.
19:46They tried to burn it, and they couldn't burn it.
19:49It wouldn't catch on fire, and they took out their pocket knives, and they tried to cut it, and they couldn't cut it.
19:56So they got into a discussion as to how, how bad a force it must have been to tear this piece of material.
20:05And they talked about, you know, whether it came from the inside of the ship or the outside or, or what.
20:13And, of course, nobody knew where it came from.
20:15And while they were talking, I guess they all had their chance to play with it for a while, and it was laying on the table.
20:23So I reached over and picked it up.
20:26And I played for it probably about five minutes.
20:28And I tried everything they had done with the, the wadding it up.
20:33When you would wad it up in your hand, you couldn't feel it in your hand.
20:37You couldn't feel you had anything there.
20:40And it would go to a size that was so small that you'd have to look to see if it was still in your hand.
20:47And then when you drop it, it spread out all over the table.
20:51It made no noise, no sound of any kind.
20:55It was just like, it was nothing.
20:58It was like you were mashing air together.
21:01So it wasn't aluminum foil?
21:03Oh, absolutely not.
21:04No, we had scraped aluminum foil off of everything for the war effort.
21:08No, I knew aluminum foil.
21:10No, this definitely wasn't.
21:11I didn't realize the significance of it at the time.
21:18No, I just knew it was different than anything I'd ever seen before.
21:23So I forgot all about it after that.
21:28Something came down during the first week of July, 1947, on what's known as the Foster Ranch.
21:47A man named Matt Brazel was the foreman of that ranch, and he was out checking his sheep.
21:53He found all this strange debris.
21:55He brought it by his neighbors the next day.
21:58They suggested he go into the sheriff with it.
22:01He went into Roswell, which was a big journey.
22:04This was about 70 miles north-northwest of Roswell.
22:07The sheriff, George Wilcox, called the local air base, Roswell Army Airfield.
22:13Two officers were dispatched, Jesse Marcel, Sr. and Sheraton Cabot, the CIC officer.
22:21Matt Brazel shows him the debris field.
22:23Clearly, it's just metallic debris.
22:25A question I posed to a number of people, why didn't they react differently?
22:28And the answer's always been, because they knew there was only one.
22:30They knew there was a single craft.
22:31They knew there was a single crash.
22:33They had it all contained.
22:35They took a calculated risk.
22:37Matt Brazel found some of the same stuff, but they knew it wasn't a craft itself.
22:40They knew it was just debris.
22:41They loaded pieces of debris into the jeep.
22:46By the time he got back to the vicinity of the air base, it was close to midnight.
22:51He stopped by his house to show his wife and 11-year-old son, Jesse Jr., this unusual debris.
22:57Well, Jesse Jr., now is an M.D.
23:03He's a colonel in the Montana Air National Guard.
23:10He's a helicopter pilot.
23:13I understand he flew choppers in Vietnam.
23:15He's a very stable individual.
23:19The type of person that is seeking no notoriety, has no axe to grind on this.
23:26I think, to a great extent, he participates in these things to see if he can't help get the truth out.
23:35I think this is what a bulk of us are doing.
23:40We're not, we have nothing to gain by doing this.
23:47My father was on the intelligence team at the Roswell Army Airfield,
23:51and it was his job to look at what they thought was a crashed aircraft
23:55or a crashed something out there out of Roswell.
23:59When he came in, he was very excited.
24:01He woke my mother and myself up at, it must have been 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning,
24:05and he wanted us to see what he was bringing in from the field.
24:10He said, this is parts of a flying saucer,
24:12and it was all brought in and spread out on the kitchen floor,
24:16and we just looked at it.
24:19You know, I picked up this particular I-beam and held it up to my upper left
24:23to look at it with the kitchen light reflecting on the inner surface,
24:26and that's when I saw the writing or the symbols of some sort.
24:31I thought at first, this is hieroglyphics or some kind of writing like that.
24:36It certainly looked alien to me.
24:41Okay, well, yeah, just tell me what to do,
24:45because I don't know how much of me you've got in the picture or anything.
24:49This was developed with the help of Jesse Marcel, Jr. and Kent Jeffery.
24:55This is a replica of what was picked up off of the desert by Major Jesse Marcel back in 1947.
25:03The one I saw was probably greatest 3 8ths of an inch in cross-sectional diameter,
25:0912 to 18 inches long.
25:11Actually, the material that I saw almost resembled something that could have been blown out
25:16through the side of the craft, like there was an in-flight explosion
25:19just spreading debris or blowing debris out of the side.
25:27There is a debris field.
25:29It's 3 quarters of a mile long, 300 feet wide, according to Jesse Marcel,
25:33loaded with this metallic debris.
25:35Mac Brazel describes it, the debris being thick enough,
25:38the sheep won't cross it, he's got to drive it around him.
25:40There's clearly a lot of debris.
25:41Bill Brazel talks about a gouge down through the center,
25:43500 feet long, 10 feet at its widest.
25:46We don't pretend to understand the mechanism of the shedding of this massive amount of debris
25:51in one area and the craft impacting much closer to Roswell.
25:54It's a much smaller craft, 15 to 20 feet wide, maybe 25 feet long, more or less intact.
26:03There seems to be some sort of damage to it,
26:04and there was some debris scattered on the impact site itself.
26:07But I don't begin to understand the mechanism for the shedding of that much debris in one area
26:11and the craft being more or less intact in the other area,
26:14unless there's some kind of an outer shell that it shed,
26:17or this was some kind of an escape capsule,
26:19and the entire craft disintegrated, and this is how they attempted to get out.
26:23We just do not understand that, and we have to speculate about it.
26:26Something crashed into the desert outside Roswell in 1947,
26:31and the ham-fisted fashion in which the U.S. Air Force handled the incident
26:35convinced a great many people that it was a flying saucer
26:39and that at least one alien creature was recovered from the crash site.
26:44It is precisely the mixture of religion, science, superstition, and folklore,
26:49intelligence, and ignorance that has produced among Americans
26:53an entire subculture of belief in extraterrestrial life.
26:59It has gotten old like anything else.
27:03It has become a job, a task, no longer an exciting experience.
27:09My name is Walter G., the G stands for George, HAUT, H-A-U-T.
27:21You ought to remember HAUT.
27:30I'm not the only one.
27:32There are other people that have been involved in this
27:34that are in the same position.
27:40We're not paid a penny for anything.
27:44The only reason we're doing this is to try and get
27:48as much of the truth out as we can
27:50while some of us are still alive.
27:55You've got to look at the age group
27:57that was out at the base at that time.
27:59So many of the people that have been doing the legwork,
28:03so to speak, were in their 20s.
28:07I was one of them.
28:11At the base, I was a crew member,
28:14navigator bombardier.
28:16That was my primary duty assignment.
28:19My secondary was as public relations officer
28:22for Roswell Army Airfield and the 509th Bomb Group.
28:27The 509th Bomb Group, incidentally,
28:31was a very elite group.
28:32It was the only atomic bomb group in the world at the time.
28:37The 509th Bomb Group
28:38was originally organized during World War II.
28:43Their mission was to drop the atomic bombs on Japan.
28:46They also dropped the bomb on Bikini.
29:00The organization was pretty much of a tight-lipped organization.
29:04By the time you get to Roswell in 1947,
29:07it's the only atomic strike force in the world.
29:09They're training people to begin other atomic bombing groups
29:16in the Air Force.
29:17If you became the commander of the 509th Bomb Group,
29:20you inevitably were promoted out of the job
29:23and became a general.
29:25It was the premier group in the Air Force in 1947.
29:31Today's edition presents a roundup of the latest developments
29:35in the finding of a flying disc.
29:36I was called to headquarters.
29:40I was given copies of a press release
29:43which stated in essence that we had in our possession
29:48a flying disc.
29:51The Army may be getting to the bottom of all this talk
29:54about the so-called flying saucers.
29:56As a matter of fact,
29:57the 509th Atomic Bomb Group Headquarters
29:59at Roswell, New Mexico
30:01reports that it has received one of the discs
30:03which landed on a ranch outside Roswell.
30:07From what we know,
30:09it was shown to William Blanchard in the morning.
30:12About 12 o'clock at noon,
30:14a press release was issued by Blanchard.
30:17My father is a 30-year retired Air Force colonel,
30:21a World War II fighter ace,
30:22and he knew and worked with William Blanchard
30:26in the early 1960s.
30:28And according to my father,
30:31Blanchard was no fool.
30:33Blanchard was not the kind of man
30:34to put out a press release
30:37about something so dramatic as a crashed UFO
30:40without being absolutely certain he was correct.
30:44In other words,
30:45if Blanchard said there was a crashed disc,
30:48there was a crashed disc.
30:50Colonel William Blanchard
30:53of the Roswell Air Base
30:55refuses to give details
30:56of what the flying disc looks like.
30:58The media here
30:59was localized media.
31:02You had a radio station of 250 watts.
31:04If you were outside of town,
31:05you basically didn't get it.
31:06You had a second radio station of equal size.
31:09You had two newspapers.
31:11You could control the media very carefully.
31:14It strikes me as odd
31:16in today's environment
31:17to hear a radio station owner tell me
31:20that the FCC would call and say,
31:22if you broadcast a story,
31:23you will lose your license.
31:25And they don't tell the FCC
31:27to go play with themselves
31:29and broadcast the story anyway.
31:31They suppressed the story
31:33and they were able to suppress the story.
31:35They were able to do
31:35what they needed to do to suppress it.
31:36This was a military town in 1947.
31:38The Army Air Forces has announced
31:41that a flying disc has been found
31:43and is now in the possession of the Army.
31:46Army officers say the missile
31:47found sometime last week
31:49has been inspected at Roswell, New Mexico
31:51and sent to Wright Field, Ohio
31:53for further inspection.
31:55We have the military moving in,
31:56cleaning all of that material up.
31:58Walter Haunt issues his press release
32:00saying we've got a flying saucer.
32:02I was told to hand deliver
32:04to the four news media
32:07we had in town at that time.
32:09We had two radio stations
32:10and two newspapers.
32:12After I had lunch,
32:14I went back out to the base.
32:16First phone call that I got
32:18when I got back to the office,
32:21he fell from London, England.
32:23His interest was,
32:25why did we put out the press release
32:29in the manner we did
32:30and how did Major Marcel
32:32know how to fly this object?
32:36I had to explain to him
32:38that the press release was put out
32:39on the orders of the base commander,
32:41number one,
32:42and number two,
32:44Major Marcel did not fly this object.
32:48He took this material
32:50and put it on an aeroplane
32:51and the aeroplane was flown forward.
32:59The phone rang and rang and rang and rang
33:01until I would guess somewhere around 4.30
33:06as I got home somewhere around 5 o'clock.
33:10That was the end of it.
33:14The next morning when I went out
33:16and picked up the newspaper,
33:18it said that headline
33:19that General Ramey emptied our saucer.
33:25The story was done.
33:29Ramey says that so far as can be determined,
33:40no one saw the object in the air
33:42and he describes it as being made
33:44of some sort of tinfoil.
33:48That was aluminum foil
33:51or a foil of some kind.
33:53It is not the material
33:55just so that the material
33:56that he brought into Ramey's office
33:59is not what he was photographed with.
34:02That was more of the cover-up.
34:05I believe he said,
34:06I didn't want to be a liar about this,
34:09but when I was told,
34:11this is what you're going to do,
34:12when the General tells you,
34:14you did it.
34:15Simple.
34:17Jesse Marcel, in fact,
34:18told a number of people
34:19that it was a weather balloon.
34:21When he was shown the picture
34:22in the book,
34:25he said,
34:25that's not the stuff I brought home.
34:27You know,
34:27when he came back from Carswell,
34:29after flying the debris,
34:31he did tell me
34:32not to talk about this,
34:33told him whether or not
34:34to talk about this.
34:34This is a non-event play
34:36like it never happened.
34:37Don't even talk about this
34:38with your friends,
34:38which I didn't.
34:40And years later,
34:42he confided that he was
34:43actually part of the cover-up
34:45because he went along
34:47with the Air Force explanation,
34:49even though he knew full well
34:50that that was not true.
34:52What do you think
34:53about the weather balloon story?
34:57I think it's been a lie
34:58from the beginning.
35:01But they have to cover up some way.
35:06There's no weather balloon.
35:08My dad would not have gotten excited
35:10over a weather balloon.
35:12He was not easily excitable.
35:13And this is the most thrilled
35:15I'd ever seen him in my life.
35:18He thought that was
35:19the most fantastic thing
35:20in the world.
35:21Roswell was a brainwashed town.
35:24When the government said
35:25it was not a flying saucer,
35:27there were no space people here,
35:30it was a weather balloon,
35:32the people in Roswell said,
35:34okay, it's a weather balloon.
35:37Roswell seems to be
35:39the first event like this
35:41because they were simply
35:42not prepared.
35:43So we've got a lot of interest
35:45in this area.
35:46The lid is slowly being shut down.
35:48And it's absolutely brilliant
35:49what they did.
35:51They announced they have
35:53a flying saucer,
35:55but they've already captured it.
35:56They've already got it.
35:57There's nothing to see,
35:58so nobody goes out
35:59looking for the thing.
36:00Then they shift everything
36:01to Fort Worth.
36:02The higher headquarters says,
36:03no, no, those guys made a mistake.
36:04It was just a weather balloon.
36:05The press can't find Jesse Marcelle
36:08because he's in Fort Worth
36:09and he's been silenced.
36:10They can't find Mac Brasso
36:12because he's held at the guest house
36:13here at the base.
36:14All the people they can find,
36:15General Ramey,
36:17General Ramey is saying
36:18it's a weather balloon.
36:19Colonel Blanchard suddenly
36:20goes on leave on Tuesday.
36:22So you can't get a hold of anybody.
36:24Blanchard's gone,
36:25Marcelle's gone,
36:26the rancher's gone.
36:27All you can get are official spokesmen
36:28saying, yeah,
36:29it's a weather balloon.
36:29Press has got nowhere to go.
36:31The story dies at that point.
36:33Nothing to go on.
36:35And everybody forgets about it
36:37until Jesse Marcelle says,
36:39I picked up pieces of a flying saucer.
36:42So other than those people
36:43that had any immediate access
36:46to the material
36:47and handled it or saw it,
36:50the story was over.
36:52We had made a mistake.
36:58Fear will do a lot of things.
37:01And that was fear.
37:07In 1947,
37:09it was much easier
37:11to intimidate a child
37:13than it is in today's world.
37:16We were not exposed
37:16to things like TV.
37:18We didn't have a TV in 1947.
37:22And it was just,
37:25we were a very patriotic town.
37:28If we were told,
37:29you don't do something
37:30for government safety,
37:32the safety of your country,
37:33we didn't do it.
37:43I'm not sure
37:44what the time span was.
37:45Maybe three days,
37:46maybe four.
37:46Could have been less.
37:47Could have been more.
37:50But I was at home
37:51and the car came driving up the driveway
37:54and we had a pretty long driveway.
37:56It was a military car.
37:58And mother and I walked to the door.
38:05They knocked on the door
38:06and I answered the door
38:07and mother was beside me
38:09and he told mother who he was
38:13and that he wanted to talk
38:17to the girl that had been down
38:22at the fire station.
38:24And so she told him it was me.
38:27So he came in.
38:28And we started to sit down
38:33in the living room
38:34and he said,
38:34no, I want you
38:35go in there in the dining room.
38:38You could see the dining room
38:39from the living room there.
38:42He told mother to sit
38:43at the end of the table
38:44and he told me
38:44to sit at the side.
38:46He positioned himself
38:47across the table
38:49and he told us to sit down
38:53and he stood.
38:57And he said,
38:58I understand you were
39:00at the fire station
39:01the other day.
39:02And I told him,
39:03yes, I was.
39:05And he started out by saying,
39:08I want you to understand
39:10that you were never there.
39:12And I didn't understand
39:14what he meant
39:14because this was kind of a,
39:17not a way of talking
39:20that we were accustomed to.
39:23And I said,
39:24yes, I was there.
39:27And he said,
39:28no, you weren't.
39:30And I said,
39:30yeah, I was there.
39:32And he had mentioned
39:35at first that he wanted
39:37to see the one
39:37who had seen
39:38the piece of material
39:38that they had been
39:41handling down the station.
39:44I said, yes,
39:45I did handle it.
39:46And he started emphasizing,
39:48no, you didn't.
39:51Well, my mother
39:51was pretty strict.
39:53And we didn't lie.
39:54So I'm insistent
39:56that, yes, I saw it.
39:57Yes, I held it.
39:58And he got mad.
40:00And he was,
40:01the more I insisted,
40:02I had seen it.
40:05He didn't just come out
40:06and say,
40:07this is not something
40:08you're going to be
40:09allowed to talk about.
40:10He was trying
40:10to get it through my head
40:11that I never saw it.
40:13and he got louder.
40:17And he had one of those,
40:21looks like a small
40:22baseball bat
40:23that hooks on the side
40:24of your belt.
40:25And he took that out
40:26and he's holding it
40:28and he starts beating
40:29his hand.
40:29Every time he said something,
40:30he would hit that
40:31on his hand.
40:32And he would say,
40:34I want you to understand,
40:36you were never there.
40:39You did not see anything.
40:42You did not hear
40:43a conversation.
40:44And he said,
40:47if you can't understand this,
40:48there are things
40:50that we can do.
40:53He asked mother,
40:54he said,
40:54can she keep a secret?
40:56And mother said,
40:56yes.
40:58She said,
40:58just tell her
40:59what you want her to do.
41:03And he said,
41:04well, first of all,
41:04you've got to understand
41:05that if you ever
41:07talk about this
41:08the rest of your life,
41:10there are things
41:14that we can do
41:14and we'll do them now.
41:16We can take
41:17all of your kids,
41:19we will take you
41:20either to Orchard Park
41:21or to Artesia.
41:23Orchard Park
41:24was the German POW camp
41:25during World War II
41:26and Artesia was
41:27the Japanese POW camp.
41:32And he said,
41:33but we don't have
41:34to do that.
41:35We don't even have
41:36to let you live.
41:37He said,
41:37we'd put you in one,
41:38we'd put your parents
41:39in the other one.
41:40But we don't have
41:41to do that.
41:42He said,
41:42we can take you out
41:43here in the middle
41:43of this desert.
41:45He said,
41:46no one will ever
41:46find your bodies,
41:47ever.
41:48No one will ever
41:49know what happened
41:49to you.
41:52And so,
41:53he said,
41:53the only way
41:54I'm going to let you
41:55stay around
41:56or live
41:57is if you promise
41:58you'll never talk
41:58about this
41:59the rest of your life.
42:02So I told him
42:02I wouldn't.
42:04But that really
42:05was pretty much
42:06all that
42:06was involved.
42:09he was probably
42:10there at the house
42:11maybe 45 minutes
42:13to an hour.
42:15Mother sent me
42:16into the bedroom
42:17and I don't know
42:17what he had to say
42:18to her afterwards.
42:21One of the other
42:22military police
42:23that was with him
42:23stayed in the backyard
42:25with the younger kids
42:26so they didn't come
42:27in the house
42:27while he was there.
42:28and I never
42:31discussed it again
42:31until recently.
42:38And I'm sorry,
42:39I just
42:39someday
42:42I won't get over it
42:45and I haven't yet.
42:46your mother
42:47must have had
42:48a hard time
42:48explaining to you
42:49obviously you were
42:51raised to be honest
42:52she never talked
42:52to us about it
42:53never
42:54it was never
42:55mentioned again
42:55from the time
42:57you came walking
42:58out of your bedroom
42:58from the time
43:00I went to the bedroom
43:01until the day
43:01she died
43:02we never mentioned
43:02it
43:03there was no
43:06conversation
43:06what about your father
43:10I never talked
43:11to him about it
43:12either
43:12I'm sure
43:13they must have
43:13talked to him
43:14down the station
43:15I imagine
43:19he did
43:19excuse me
43:23just a moment
43:24no
43:25I just wish
43:30this whole thing
43:31would go away
43:31it doesn't
43:35go away
43:35and it doesn't
43:43get any easier
43:43because every time
43:46that I tell
43:47somebody about it
43:49I feel like
43:50I'm 12 years
43:51old again
43:52I can see
43:54the guy
43:55standing there
43:56with his sunglasses
43:59on and he never
44:00took his hat off
44:00he never took
44:01his sunglasses off
44:02beating his hand
44:03with that stick
44:04and threatening us
44:06and at the time
44:08he did it
44:09it was okay
44:09because we'd been
44:12through the war
44:12we understood
44:13and I didn't
44:15realize it was
44:16intimidation
44:17I had no idea
44:21what it was
44:21until
44:22probably the last
44:25five years
44:25actually
44:26because I never
44:28talked about it
44:29again
44:29I never mentioned
44:30it to anybody
44:31when this all
44:33came out
44:34and my kids
44:35found out about it
44:35they were really
44:36upset with me
44:37because I never
44:39told them about it
44:40my husband
44:42who was very
44:43upset with me
44:43about it
44:44because I never
44:44told him about it
44:46what was it
44:48that made you
44:49friendly talk
44:49Kevin Randall
44:51if we had
44:54Frankie Rose story
44:55stand alone
44:56I would be
44:57bothered by it
44:58a 12 year old
45:00girl
45:01who meets
45:02with military
45:03officers
45:03can certainly
45:04misconstrue
45:05what they're
45:05trying to tell
45:06her
45:06especially
45:08the way
45:09that they
45:10arrived at
45:10her house
45:11we know
45:13the event
45:13took place
45:13because her
45:14sister
45:14corroborates it
45:15her sister
45:16corroborates
45:17her father's
45:17involvement
45:18we have
45:18affidavits
45:19on that
45:20so yeah
45:22I believe
45:22Frankie Rose
45:23story
45:23I think
45:24that they
45:24they did
45:25visit her
45:25and they
45:26did
45:26suggest
45:27the things
45:27she says
45:28they suggest
45:28and I
45:29believe that
45:29because we
45:30know that
45:30others were
45:31intimidated
45:31in similar
45:33fashions
45:33we have the
45:34military people
45:34telling us
45:35they were
45:35sworn to
45:35secrecy
45:36all of this
45:38going on
45:38around it
45:39so Frankie
45:39Rowe
45:39is not
45:40stand alone
45:40there's
45:40corroborative
45:41testimony
45:41that suggests
45:42somebody
45:43was putting
45:43pressure
45:44on people
45:45to silence
45:46them
45:46and they
45:47used
45:47what means
45:48were necessary
45:49to keep
45:49those people
45:49silent
45:50with the
45:50military people
45:51it was merely
45:52the threat
45:52of imprisonment
45:53and going to jail
45:54because they
45:54understood that
45:55with some of the
45:56civilians
45:56they were told
45:57that if you ever
45:58talk about it
45:58you will be killed
45:59one of the people
46:00I forgot
46:00Sheriff Wilcox
46:01his family
46:02was told the same
46:02thing
46:03that if he
46:03talked about it
46:04not only would
46:05he be killed
46:06his wife would
46:06be killed
46:07and his daughters
46:08would be killed
46:08the whole family
46:09would be wiped
46:09out
46:10that comes from
46:11Sheriff Wilcox's
46:12granddaughter
46:12Barbara Duggar
46:13who heard the
46:15story from her
46:15grandmother
46:16so we have a
46:17wide range of
46:17testimonies from
46:18various individuals
46:19telling us of the
46:21pressures that were
46:21placed on them
46:22to keep them silent
46:24and I think they
46:24used the technique
46:25that was best for
46:26that specific group
46:27of individuals
46:27the material that
46:38was found out
46:39on the debris
46:39field was
46:40secondary to
46:42the crash
46:44of the actual
46:44object on the
46:46night of the
46:464th of July
46:47I have heard
46:51second hand
46:52that there were
46:53alien bodies
46:54my mother had
46:57a friend
46:57I told you
46:59she and I
47:00never talked
47:01about it again
47:01she had a lady
47:03that would come
47:04out and visit
47:04with her
47:05occasionally
47:05and this woman's
47:06husband was
47:07working out
47:07at the base
47:08he was a
47:09painter
47:10contracting
47:11to the government
47:12and he was
47:13painting in the
47:14base hospital
47:15the day they
47:15brought them in
47:16and he saw
47:17the one walking
47:18in
47:18and I heard
47:20mother and
47:21Yolme talking
47:22about Herbert
47:25seeing the
47:27one that walked
47:27in and that
47:29they brought
47:30others in on
47:30stretches
47:31and mother
47:35said to Yolme
47:36did Herbert
47:37tell you what
47:38the face looks
47:39like because
47:39Dan said it
47:40looked like the
47:41child of the
47:41earth and Yolme
47:43said that's what
47:44Herbert said
47:44and of course
47:48they put them
47:49in this side
47:49room but a
47:51bunch of guys
47:51are not going
47:52to just
47:53stand there
47:54you know
47:54they're going
47:55to peek
47:55if they
47:55possibly can
47:56and they
47:57looked
47:58and I'm
47:59sure that
47:59probably
48:00mother and
48:01Yolme and
48:02maybe daddy
48:03and Herbert
48:03maybe there was
48:05more discussion
48:06than I know
48:06about but not
48:07in my presence
48:08it was the
48:09only reference
48:10I ever heard
48:10her make
48:11about that
48:11but I think
48:14that was done
48:15before they
48:15came out
48:17to the house
48:18because after
48:20they came out
48:20I never heard
48:21another comment
48:23the U.S. Air Force
48:30is about to tell us
48:45what it says happened
48:46we're going over to the Pentagon
48:47now where Colonel John Haynes
48:49of the U.S. Air Force
48:50will tell us
48:51what happened
48:52for some bizarre reason
48:54the Air Force
48:55which whenever you
48:57queried about UFOs
48:58said we have no interest
48:58in UFOs
48:59if you feel threatened
49:00by them
49:00contact the local law enforcement
49:02decided they were going to
49:04reinvestigate the Roswell case
49:05the conclusion of the first report
49:07left no doubt
49:07that what was recovered
49:08near Roswell, New Mexico
49:09in July 1947
49:11was debris
49:12from a formerly
49:14top secret
49:14Army Air Force's
49:15research project
49:16codenamed Mogul
49:181947
49:19they told us
49:20it was a balloon
49:20with a raywind target
49:21attached to it
49:22they then looked
49:24at their documentation
49:25and said
49:25well we told a little
49:26white lie in 1947
49:27instead of
49:29just being a normal
49:30meteorological balloon
49:31it was part of
49:31the array train
49:33for what was then
49:34classified
49:34the classified project
49:35Project Mogul
49:36Mogul was an attempt
49:38to acoustically detect
49:39Soviet nuclear blast
49:41and ballistic missile
49:43launches
49:43the Air Force
49:45said that
49:46that explains it
49:47it's a highly
49:47classified project
49:48the people at Roswell
49:49wouldn't have recognized
49:50the balloon
49:50that's why it was
49:52covered up
49:52we didn't want the people
49:53to get back to
49:54Project Mogul
49:54where this falls down
49:57is
49:57they have no documentation
49:58to prove what was
49:59picked up at Roswell
50:00was a Project Mogul balloon
50:01the people at Roswell
50:03Jesse Marcel
50:03for example
50:04the air intelligence officer
50:05was part of
50:07operations crossroads
50:08and we're told that
50:08the raywind targets
50:10in the meteorological balloons
50:13were used
50:13as part of the atomic testing
50:15so he should have been
50:16familiar with the balloons
50:17so you've got a situation
50:18where they're saying
50:20these guys with their
50:21fingers on the triggers
50:22if you will
50:22can't identify a balloon
50:23and are so hysterically
50:25possessed
50:25that they claim
50:26it's a flying saucer
50:27they didn't review
50:30the tapes of
50:30Louis Rickett
50:31the counterintelligence
50:32NCOIC
50:33at the base
50:33who saw the debris
50:34and commented on it
50:35they didn't review
50:36the tapes of
50:37Major Edwin Easley
50:38who told me
50:40that he couldn't
50:41talk about it
50:41because it was still
50:42classified 47 years later
50:44told me a number of times
50:45in our first conversation
50:46I can't talk about it
50:47I was sworn to secrecy
50:48they didn't even talk
50:49to Brigadier General
50:50Arthur Exxon
50:52who reported
50:52that he flew over
50:53the two sites
50:54two distinct sites
50:55and reports the gouge
50:56a balloon will not
50:57leave a gouge
50:58so they didn't talk
50:59to the people
51:00I would think
51:00were key people
51:01instead they talked
51:02to the people
51:03that are going to lead
51:03them directly to the
51:04Project Mogul explanation
51:05and let it go at that
51:07they say this was
51:08a top secret project
51:10implying there was
51:11special equipment
51:11it's a neoprene balloon
51:13and ray-wind targets
51:14ray-wind targets
51:15had been used
51:16for 20 years
51:17at first they were used
51:19because they reflected
51:20the sun
51:20and they could track
51:21them visually much easier
51:22now they were adapted
51:24to radar use
51:25Irving Newton said
51:26they launched
51:26literally hundreds of them
51:27during the invasion
51:28of Okinawa
51:29there's nothing special
51:30about these balloons
51:31nothing at all
51:32and by placing it
51:34with Project Mogul
51:35we're implying
51:36that there was
51:37something unusual
51:38about these balloons
51:39that there was
51:39something that would
51:40keep these people
51:41from identifying
51:41but there wasn't
51:42this is in reference
51:44to Charles Moore
51:46who was the project
51:47engineer on Mogul
51:49with respect to
51:50the neoprene rubber
51:52used on those
51:53meteorological balloons
51:54and they were
51:55standard meteorological
51:56balloons
51:57the idea that
51:58the Mogul array
52:00was something special
52:01or out of the ordinary
52:02is an illusion
52:03but Moore explained
52:04to me
52:05the type of rubber
52:06how thin it was
52:08he actually compared
52:09it to a giant condom
52:11he said
52:12it was very thin
52:14and that's what
52:14it looked like
52:15and my response
52:16to that was
52:17well if that's
52:18the type of material
52:19that this resembled
52:20it certainly isn't
52:22anything that would
52:23have fooled
52:23any members
52:24of the United States
52:25Armed Forces
52:25therefore this was
52:28not a Mogul balloon
52:29I don't know
52:41that the Air Force
52:42has ever explained
52:43what took them
52:43so long
52:44to say
52:46this is the explanation
52:47if this is the explanation
52:48when I sent
52:50the first request
52:51to the
52:51to the Secretary
52:52of Defense
52:53for a response
52:54about the Roswell
52:55incident
52:55in view of the fact
52:56that there were
52:56these accusations
52:57essentially of a
52:58government cover-up
52:59the response
53:00I got was
53:01a very terse letter
53:02that said
53:03in about a sentence
53:04or two
53:04from the Air Force
53:05we referred your letter
53:07to the National Archives
53:08and that's all it said
53:09the National Archives
53:10then said
53:11we don't have any information
53:12about the Roswell incident
53:13which I was convinced
53:15the Defense Department
53:16had to know
53:16before they were
53:17sending me there
53:18so in other words
53:19I thought I was
53:19getting the runaround
53:20they believe
53:22that the records
53:23in fact were destroyed
53:25more than four decades ago
53:26so there's not
53:27an individual
53:27on the job now
53:28we can just call up
53:29and say
53:29what happened
53:31to these records
53:31and so the GAO
53:33has simply
53:34no further
53:34recommendations
53:36or ideas
53:36on how to go farther
53:38the only records
53:39we're talking about
53:40being destroyed
53:40are communications
53:41from Roswell Army Airfield
53:43the 509th
53:44only atomic bombing group
53:46in the world
53:46out
53:47out moving messages
53:48how about the analysis
53:49of the materials
53:50how about the autopsy reports
53:51how about the
53:52eyewitness testimony
53:54from those who stood guard
53:55those who carried it
53:56those who tested
53:56at various government labs
53:58there ought to be
53:59a ton of other paper
54:00what happened to this
54:02what happened to the one
54:04that was alive
54:05I'm positive
54:07that there's information
54:08being withheld
54:09from the public domain
54:10concerning the Roswell event
54:12there are
54:18a lot of things
54:20that our government hides
54:23and it isn't right
54:26they shouldn't
54:27they especially
54:30shouldn't do it
54:31to a town
54:32like Roswell
54:33that was so supportive
54:35of every single thing
54:36that they did
54:37the story
54:40is going to end
54:41one of these days
54:42because there's nobody
54:43going to be able
54:43to refute it
54:45or say anything
54:47about it
54:47what we can do
54:49the truth
54:51is
54:52there's no
54:53deep
54:54so
54:55we're
54:56we'll be
54:57to you
54:58to you
54:58see us
54:59we're
54:59here
54:59now
55:00we're
55:00first
55:01and we'll be
55:02to you
55:02we're
55:03we're
55:03we're
55:04we're
55:04we're
55:05we're
55:05we're
55:06we're
55:06we're
55:07we're
55:08we're
55:09we're
55:10we're
55:10we're
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