00:00Hello and welcome back to the 77% Street Debate. This week we are back in my hometown, Kenya's
00:11capital, Nairobi. And these streets were shaken on the 25th of June 2024 when young people
00:17angered by a controversial finance bill breached the gates of parliament. And a year later
00:22we are here to ask if their demands were met, if they were indeed worth it. Well, who better
00:28to answer those questions for me than some fellow Kenyans. So let's start with you, Hanifa,
00:32because you've sort of become, post the protest, one of the faces of this movement. But before
00:38we continue, just give us a quick look at why the protest happened in the first place.
00:44I think the finance bill was a catalyst. It was anger, bitterness simmered for years and
00:50years, inequality, corruption. It was just everything combined that blew up. The finance
00:57bill was a catalyst and I would like to term it as a youth quake.
01:00A youth quake. So Hanifa describing it here as sort of the proverbial straw that broke the
01:05camel's back. But Wanjera, I know you've been an activist for many years and the issues that
01:09Hanifa is mentioning, they didn't start last year. So what is it that broke that camel's
01:14back?
01:15Young people of this country were rising up against bad leadership, corruption, the economic
01:21situation, the high cost of living at the face of opulence, at the political class, at the face of
01:27we don't care, we're just going to do whatever we want. And young people are saying, no, our future
01:32is on the line. Our present is on the line. So we have to come and say, we are not going to watch
01:37as you do whatever you want. Well, our future deteriorates. Well, our present is unbearable.
01:43Nathaniel, how would you rate the performance of the government between the time of the protest and
01:49now? Has much changed?
01:50I am not the person who is capacitated to rate government performance. Only the young people
01:55and the citizens can tell us how we are performing. And we will be able to know whether we are performing
02:00well or not in the next election and in the continuous process of engagement through the governance
02:05processes.
02:05Okay. So let me ask the people, do you think much has improved since 2024 in June? You know,
02:11the things that you were agitating for. Has the economy improved by a show of hands? Yes.
02:15Has the state of politics improved? Let's see. Joshua, you're a lawyer currently studying,
02:20but you underwent something very critical after the protests when you were mysteriously abducted.
02:25Please tell us how that happened.
02:27Yeah. A day after the 25th of June, where we breached parliament, I received calls from unknown people
02:35and the language was that you are seen somewhere and these guys are coming for you. So wherever you are,
02:40live. So I don't know why I was supposed to live. But when I left immediately, I was captured and
02:46I stayed in their hands for two days. But of course, during which time they could come for me in a room
02:53where they had thrown me into beating me and ask me why I was involved in the protest and why I was
02:59mobilizing young people to, you know, to go to the streets. But ultimately, they threw me into
03:04some river about 100 kilometers from the Nairobi where they picked me up. So that was it for me.
03:13And I think when I speak about this, it gets very personal for me. And that's why, as Anifa said,
03:22it has changed me completely.
03:23Coming from the Kenya Human Rights Commission, what does the data show about the number of people who
03:28were abducted and the number of people who were killed during that time?
03:32Huge numbers. The missing voices report that was released a few months ago indicate that that grew
03:38by about 145 percent from 2019 when that documentation started. That is a worrying trend. And particularly the
03:462024 finance bill protest really resulted in the killings and also enforced disappearances of these
03:53people. And as we speak about this, I think one of the things that we all need to note is that the
03:58Gen Z protest really led to the rising of youth activism. And that is what we are seeing right now.
04:06All right. Let me invite Kelvin. Please join me at the front here. He's wearing the Kenyan flag
04:10and a very democratic or patriotic message on his T-shirt. And I'm very surprised because your
04:17brother was killed by people who are wearing the same flag. Tell us a little bit about Brian,
04:21your late brother, and what happened to him? Brian was a very hardworking person, hardworking boy.
04:28He was my young brother. So Brian went to the street to demonstrate. He went to the street at around
04:36for 30. 30 minutes after he was shot dead. Now, when we spoke on the phone as we were preparing for
04:43this street debate, I asked you if the police have been in touch. And you told me that the Independent
04:49Policing Oversight Authority, Aipoa, has been in touch with you. Did you know that they've listed
04:54your brother's name as one of the cases that's already been investigated? I received a phone call from
04:59my aunt that Aipoa wants the number of the witness. So the witness has refused to come out to
05:06to witness, fear of his life and danger. But also he was offered a job. So you see, the government,
05:13it knows what he's doing because he's a witness, then he's given a job so that he can do it,
05:18he can be silent. Okay. I'd just like to let our audience know that we did invite the Independent
05:24Policing Oversight Authority, Aipoa, but unfortunately they weren't able to make it. But we did speak to
05:29them later and this is what they had to say. This particular question about Gen Z, we have 60 cases
05:36of death reported. Some of the killings were people who were running away and they were shot in
05:42the back, some of the victims. You will see some protests where people are shot in the head.
05:48And so we feel that there must be a much more better management of the public order
05:55and protests by the police. Kelvin, by the way, thank you so much for sharing your story.
06:00But Wanjira, long before the protests, you've heard about police brutality and incidences working with
06:05people on the ground and evidently nothing's changed or nothing seems to have. I think it's a very sad
06:11reality that the Finance Bill 2024 actually brought out to the fore for all Kenyans to see that extrajudicial
06:19killings have been a reality, especially in the informal settlements of this country that have
06:25been ongoing on for years, that every other regime that has come, it's been extrajudicial killings,
06:30extrajudicial killings. And 2024 made it a national discussion. Why is it that our police kill the
06:38young people of this country? We have documented so many cases with the Independent Policing Oversight
06:44Authority. We have gone to court. Not a single case has gotten justice.
06:49So Hanifa, I have to ask because Nathaniel earlier said that they are willing to listen as the
06:54governing party and they're willing to listen as the government. Do you think young people are
06:58willing to listen to government or have you gotten to a place where it's too antagonistic?
07:03I have been to mocharis, to funerals. I have seen each and every family mourning and crying out for their
07:12child. And there's no justice at all. That bothers me a lot. It is so personal to me. So when they
07:21talk about amending things or doing whatever, if they wanted to, they would have done it.
07:26So when you hear about this, Nathaniel, obviously you're not police, you're not government, you can't
07:30answer for justice. But on a personal level, you must surely know that there's a disconnect,
07:35there's a gap between justice and accountability.
07:38Edith, it breaks my heart to hear and even saw what the young people were killed in the protest
07:45because of a finance bill. Government has appropriated enough resources to the security
07:50sector. So it is the duty of every citizen, especially we, the young people, to be able to
07:55ask the police the hard questions. What happened to accounting for each and every case that were killed
08:02in the finance bill, either by the police or by other criminal elements or any other. And the
08:07beauty is that we have a robust judiciary. There are no cases that have evidence that can be able to
08:12evade the judiciary of Kenya.
08:13I think Kelvin might have a different opinion there, given that his witness is being intimidated,
08:18surely. So I'd like to wrap this conversation up with Hanifa because I did start with you
08:23asking the question of, was it worth it? There is absolutely nothing that government hasn't done
08:29to silence dissent. Nothing. You killed us. You're abducting us. You're taking us to courts. None of it
08:38has been able to silence us. So that is the power we got from last year. I'm not the same person I was
08:44last year. And the person before the protest. It was worth it. And we do it over and over again for a
08:51reimagined Kenya. Okay. So, oh, wow.
08:55Viva, comrades, viva. Viva. Down with abduction, down. Down. Down with corruption, down. Down with the killings, down.
09:02Normally, I have something clever to say at the end of these debates, but I think the young people here
09:07have made their voices heard pretty clearly. The struggle still continues. People died, people were
09:12abducted, but I think the voice here is very loud and clear.
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