00:00Hello and welcome back to the 77% Street Debate. My name is Edith Kimani and this week we are
00:04back in Kenya's capital of Nairobi. But we're here to ask, are protests the only way for
00:09Kenyans to get their voices heard? And what next for the young people of this movement?
00:13Who better to answer that question than the actual members of the movement? Shakira,
00:17let's start with you because you stood up to a police officer and you said,
00:20you're not taking me anywhere, I'm standing up for my rights. Why were you so angry that day?
00:26That was the second day of the protests and on the first day I had been arrested. I wouldn't even
00:32use the term arrested because I was ambushed by plainclothes officers and they threw me into a
00:36vehicle, they harassed me, they beat me and they took me to central police and we were detained
00:42among other protesters until 8pm. So I didn't understand why the people's demands and had to
00:52be met with such brutality. So I was like, if this moment ever happens to me again, I have
00:59to be able to speak up for myself. And to be honest, I was scared. But my anger and frustration
01:05superseded my fear at that point. Alright, so Shakira's anger superseding her fear.
01:10Mohamed, you are a journalist, a communicator, but very much also involved in these protests.
01:15So I did ask the question, what sparked the protests? Because I mean, Kenyans have been
01:20known to protest for a while, but not like this, not at this scale. Kenya has come to the brink of
01:23revolution so many times. Revolution, that's a very strong word. It is a very strong word. I think we
01:29can go back all the way to the 90s when we had the multi-party, when we were fighting for multi-party
01:33democracy in this country. 2002, when all of us were at Uhuru Park and saying Yotewa Zekana Bilamoi,
01:38there's one uniform factor throughout and that is politicians always come in and hijack the
01:44movements and make it about themselves. So what's different this time around? I think the people,
01:49they got tired of that. So then what is the message now? Because at the beginning it was
01:53very clear, right? Reject the finance bill. And I want to speak to some people who participated
01:58in the protests. Did that involve burning buildings, looting businesses? Because this
02:05is also what the young people are being accused of. Like the first day when Rex got shot,
02:10I was in the other side, I was in CBD. At four, all of us decided to go home because it's the
02:15end of the day, night time was coming. The streets were generally not going to be safe.
02:20People left. But then the minute you're coming to downtown, you're being told, oh,
02:25the people who were here, there were goons, people's businesses were ransacked, people were
02:29attacked. Most of the protesters were trying to go home. All of us wanted to go home. We were tired.
02:34Let me bring in Charles Owino, who you might recognize as a former spokesperson for the police.
02:40Based on your own assessment and observation, how would you rate the behaviour of police towards
02:45the protesters in those early days? There's sometimes a big conflict that police find
02:50themselves in. Because as you heard the young man talk, most of these issues are political problems
02:58between the public and politicians. Police officers come in to enforce laws and regulations
03:04of the land. Well, our current constitution is a bit more vibrant. And Article 37 of the
03:10constitution provides that you can demonstrate, you can assemble, you can picket, you can present
03:15petitions to authorities peaceably and unarmed. Who do the police respond and serve? Do they
03:23consider us first or the politicians? The police considers the nation, every one of you. Because,
03:30for example, she's a businesswoman. If you break into her shop, what happens to her? So from where
03:37I sit, I don't want to defend anybody. But what I'm saying is, can we follow the law? Okay,
03:42let me hear from some people here because I'm seeing the hands coming up. If we're being honest
03:46to ourselves, the default position of the police of this country since independence has always
03:51been violence. Now, some of the people who came out during these protests, they're kids who are
03:55from middle class families. Police brutality for them, it's things they see on TV or they read on
04:00the papers. If you go to these low income or these neighborhoods, these informal settlements,
04:05the Madadis, the Kibras, this is their daily reality. Brothers, sons killed without any due
04:11process. We have somebody here from the Law Society of Kenya. What does the law say about
04:15peaceful protests and why the police on the right? Because we saw images of people holding just the
04:20flag and yet they're being sprayed with water cannon. The unfortunate thing that we have
04:24witnessed in this country is the anarchy perpetrated by the state. And I will say this
04:30because we saw a court in Malindi issue an order directing that the police officer should not use
04:36lethal weapon, they should not use force, they should not use water cannons. And it was clearly
04:42directed to the Inspector General of Police to ensure that they provide that command. The following
04:46day, there was a protest organized in the various cities and we could witness the police were in
04:51total violation of that order. I'm going to give Mr. Owino a chance to respond to that and then I
04:55want us to move away from the issue of police. When you bar the police from using the tools
05:01required for their trade. You mean live ammunition? Even live ammunition. Yes, I don't want to lie.
05:07I want to be very honest. Even live ammunition is a tool of trade for the police. We have
05:14had cases of terrorism here. People coming with bombs and firearms. So what I'm saying is that
05:20when it comes to tear gas, the court trying to stop the police from using tear gas or using
05:26baton or even using his gun is misplaced in the sense that it is equivalent to telling the police
05:33stay at the police station. Let us protest. The president has already made some concessions,
05:39fired nearly his entire cabinet. He's now reappointed some people, at least nominated
05:43them. How do you feel about that? Do you feel like the president is listening to the demands
05:46of the youth? Honestly, I don't think he is. Because if you see the reshuffle, it's like he
05:53just switched positions, you know. It's like this person was here, come, stay here. You, go, stay
06:00here. Just to show people, it's like he's playing around with people's mind like I've done something.
06:06So what are the real issues? Let's come back to that. It's evident that when we say Ruto must go,
06:12we don't specifically refer to Ruto. But the entire government that is backing him up,
06:20they've been given a chance time and time again. Because these are politicians I've heard about
06:24since I was a little girl. So I think it's just time we, it's like deconstructing everything
06:34and start afresh from a new foundation. So what are the solutions? I'm going to plead with the
06:39youth. My children go to school in Nairobi. I work in Nairobi. That means my children will not
06:46go to school. I will not go to work. And I am a single mother of three children. Kindly, as a
06:53human being, I wish, I hope that this protest can take a better route. So while you support
07:02the movement, you don't want loss of business, you don't want loss of life. Okay, understood.
07:06Let me hear some more points. My solution is simple. The young people, you are the majority.
07:13Stop tribalism. Excuse me. I don't say you are a tribalist. I say we have been practicing
07:24tribalism. Your generation should stop. I want to see an election where you are going to elect
07:32people based on the policies that they want to sell to you. I think that's a fair point.
07:40And finally, I'd like to hear from you, Moha. Let's close this with you.
07:43Yes. As civilians, we're going to take our civic duty very seriously from now on. The other day
07:49on Twitter, we had two different simultaneous Twitter spaces on Wednesday. Well, one group was
07:54teaching people about the bills that are being tabled in parliament. And the other group was
07:57teaching people, it's a group of young lawyers who are teaching people about the Katiba, the
08:02constitution. We're reaching a point where we're going to make life very uncomfortable for
08:06politicians, and in a non-violent way. Let me just clarify that.
08:10So we have to wrap there because of time. But I did ask a question, you know, what next? And I
08:15think the answer has been very clear here, that even if it's not on the streets, it's going to be
08:20somewhere online, or perhaps at a debate like this, right? So I thank you all for participating.
08:26I did read somewhere that these protests were not so much anti-government, but pro-good governance.
08:32And I think this debate here has clearly illustrated that. Thank you all for watching.
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