- 7/7/2025
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00:00Hey, everybody. Welcome to Hanging Left, Episode 5. Wow, five episodes. I can't believe we
00:07know. It is amazing.
00:09They said it would never last, Todd. I'm Matt Connerton, and of course, we have Todd Ayer,
00:14as always, my partner in crime here. Welcome, Todd.
00:17Hey, how are you, Matt?
00:19Good, good. Happy Fourth of July weekend.
00:21Absolutely. Happy Fourth.
00:23Absolutely. And this is exciting because for Episode 5, we have officially our first guest,
00:30on Hanging Left, and I'll let you introduce her.
00:33Absolutely. So we have with us today, we are very lucky to have Sarah Chadzynski. She is a very
00:41prominent organizer, community organizer, and a licensed educator, and just all-around good
00:50friend. And she's fighting the good fight with me. So without any further ado, let's hand it over to
00:57Sarah.
00:58Yeah.
00:59We're going to hand it over to you, Sarah. Are you ready to host the rest of the show?
01:03So yeah, just hand it on over, guys. Let's do this. I'm ready to go. Dive right in.
01:10No, but go ahead, Sarah. Tell us more about yourself. And I'm interested in hearing about
01:17some of the, you know, Todd kind of clued me in on some things. I'm interested in hearing about some
01:20of the issues that you're concerned with and so forth. And we can chop it up a little bit,
01:25as I think that the young people say that, chop it up.
01:28Yeah. You know what? You're probably, you've probably got the lingo better than I do.
01:33I, you know, I, as an educator and a mom, I'm always looking to our youth to inform us as how,
01:39you know, how we can do better and keep me updated on the progress of things. But thank you for the
01:45introduction. Thank you for having me on the show. It's really wonderful to be here. I appreciate you
01:50guys doing this. It's important to have, you know, your voices and many voices out there right now with
01:56everything that's happening in our country, in our state, in our world. But as for me, you know,
02:03I'm a New England girl. I was born and raised on a pick your own apple farm. We had our vegetable
02:08patch across the street growing up. I learned how to pickle and, you know, picking strawberries and
02:15raspberries this time of year is something of, of my soul. So, you know, I really enjoy working with
02:23people, being with people. And one of the things that has driven me so much to community is actually
02:33that foundation that I had growing up on an apple farm, when people would come once a year, people that
02:40might not even be with each other in between the time, but once a year, they would come back to the
02:45same orchard, and they would put their picnic blankets down, and their kids would play, and they would
02:50catch up, right? And it gave me that foundational understanding of how important community is, how
02:57important coming together is, and just what can be done there. And so I really took that through into working
03:04with kids through education. I've done community education. I've done public education. I've done
03:09international education. And all through that, it has been a lot of, you know, advocating for kids' rights,
03:17advocating for our youth to have a voice, and making sure that they actually have access to the education,
03:24the materials, and that those educational facilities are actually funded, that schools have the money that
03:31they need, that teachers are being supported in what they need to be able to really, truly foster,
03:40nurture, and develop the next generation that's going to be leading our country. So that's a background
03:46on me in terms of education and myself and growing up here in New England. You know, we've been living in
03:52the Granite State now for just about a decade, and I love, you know, the people in New Hampshire.
04:01And when I think about, you know, the beauty of our children, we have three children, my husband and I,
04:07three children, the beauty of them growing up here in the Granite State, with kids and families that have
04:14grit, that care about their community, that care about each other, and that care about the state. And that's
04:21something that I love so much about New Hampshire. So that's a little introduction to me.
04:26All right. Very good. I'm curious to hear more about education, because what are,
04:31so obviously you have concerns and, and with your background, it makes sense. You're,
04:35sounds like you're someone who's in a good position to identify some of the things that we need to work
04:39on. And I, I would love to hear more about that. Not just, not just in terms of New Hampshire, but
04:46nationally, just any, any, what are the things that we need to work on in terms of education?
04:51Yeah. I mean, I think you've got it, Matt. There are so many things to talk about right now. We have
04:55healthcare, we have, you know, our, our economy that is not supporting people in actually living,
05:04but barely surviving. And education and our economy are so intrinsically linked as well. Education is the
05:15backbone of our societies. It allows working families to be in the workplace and it supports
05:22our kids and their development and being a part of our, our societies. And when we're looking at
05:30how to evaluate or revamp or support education, you know, there's so many perspectives on how to do that,
05:39except one of the things that I think is so important and, and something that I think we're
05:44missing in a lot of what's happening on the federal level. It's like, yeah, let's, let's evaluate things.
05:50Let's look at how effective things are. Let's look at it. You know, our budgets and how we're spending
05:56money. But in that same time, you know, if you're working on re-budgeting for your family and feeding
06:04your family, you don't rip out the kitchen. And what we see on a federal level and now what's being
06:09echoed on a state level here in New Hampshire is we've ripped out the kitchen. We've ripped out the
06:14foundational function of being able to support our schools and be able to keep our schools going
06:20while we evaluate what is actually needed and how to support them better. And that doesn't actually
06:26help us. That stops progress. You know, so we really need to put some time into figuring out
06:33how do we want to move forward? And what are the options for better funding, fair funding and access
06:41to good, full education for our students in New Hampshire? It's, it's one of our constitutional values.
06:48And so, Sarah, also getting into that a little bit further, I know a hot topic as of late was the
06:56voucher program. So how do you feel about that? Do you feel like the voucher program is doing this
07:01forwarding of education? Or do you feel like it's inhibiting and preventing this expansion of education
07:08that you talk about is so needed, both in the Granite State and nationally?
07:12Yeah, thanks, Todd. So the voucher program is definitely a hot topic. And one of the issues
07:21with the voucher program, there's many, is that it pulls from a funding of tax dollars.
07:26And those tax dollars are really meant for schools to get grants or increase their programming. And I
07:34keep thinking, you know, if all of those dollars were actually spent effectively and put into our school
07:40systems to support our school systems, imagine what could be done. Imagine how many kids could be fed
07:46that need to be fed. Imagine how many programs we could develop to support our kids going forward.
07:51And what happens with the voucher program is it's actually taking funding away from our public schools.
07:58It's taking our tax dollars and giving our tax dollars to any private entity that is not held to any
08:06accountability. And I think one of the things that we're seeing across the board in all situations
08:13in our state government and our federal government is accountability. We want transparency. We want
08:18to know where our tax dollars are going. And we want our tax dollars to go to our towns and our cities
08:24and our communities, not to, you know, a private school that has its own set of funding options.
08:31You know, so you don't feel safer now that they had Doge to protect us.
08:38It wasn't wasn't Doge supposed to be the ones to make sure our tax dollars went in the right place.
08:42Yeah, well, here we are, you know, I know. Well, here we are six months in and where where are tax dollars going?
08:50OK, well, we don't have that transparency. We should have that transparency and that accountability.
08:55And one of the things is, is that the voucher program is being, you know, almost in a way of
09:01propaganda saying, oh, this is a choice option for your kids. Well, if you look at a family like mine,
09:07I have my my eldest kid is neurodivergent. I homeschool them because school is not the best
09:15fit for my eldest. And that's OK. That is our choice to homeschool. But if we applied for the voucher
09:23program as a family with modest income, we would not actually be able to send our kid to a private
09:30school or other school because it wouldn't be enough money. So what's happening is this funding
09:37is not actually helping people that really need it. And that's the concern for me.
09:42So it's almost like a Band-Aid for a for a very large wound, you know, it really needs,
09:48you know, metaphoric stitches, so to speak. And they're just putting a little Band-Aid on this thing.
09:53So in essence, what you're saying is this money ultimately by default is really going to people
09:59that don't really need it because it's just enough money to like buffer people that can already afford
10:05it anyway. But it's not sufficient and it's not enough money for people that couldn't afford it
10:11otherwise. This is this is really interesting to me because this kind of clears up something that I've
10:15never fully understood about how this works, because I you know, people who are and I was going to I was
10:24going to try to play devil's advocate and offer this as as an argument. But people who support the
10:28voucher program will often talk about and you even use the phrase Sarah school choice. And I've always
10:36found that argument to be not without some merit, because if you're paying into the system as a
10:43taxpayer, you're one of the taxpayers contributing. So why shouldn't you have some choice in the matter?
10:48But if if like you said, if if you if you are a low or middle class person in terms of your income,
10:57so you don't qualify or you might you maybe qualify to get the voucher, but you don't have enough.
11:03The voucher is not going to cover it. So the vouchers of no use to you. So the only people benefiting
11:08from the voucher are higher income people who can take that voucher and make up the rest.
11:14Then, yeah, that that is that's not a good not a good program. And Todd, I think you put it
11:20perfectly. It's a it's a small bandaid for a giant wound. And it doesn't really so it doesn't really do
11:25what the people who are proponents of the voucher system claim that it does.
11:29Right. And absolutely. And Matt and Sarah, it's sorry. Go ahead.
11:34No, go ahead, Todd, please. I was going to say it's also very misleading, because to be honest,
11:39prior to like my gut reaction, of course, I don't I don't have kids and all of that. So I'm from the
11:45outside looking in. But like from an observer's standpoint, it sounds like a great idea. Right.
11:51So like on paper, this sounds like a cool thing, because, again, I thought is if I didn't know any better
11:56and certainly is if I were in a low informed individual, which I am not. But if I happen to be
12:02the average American, then I guess I could I could take out the risk and say, I mean, I could take
12:08I'm going to take a stab at it and say that, like to that person, it almost looks like those of us that
12:13are saying, oh, the voucher program is not positive. Like, I'm sure they're going to spin it to say,
12:17well, they just don't want you guys to be able to have choice. We're preventing them from choice.
12:21But I think the two key things that you you said there is, number one, in order to make
12:26this program work, it's taking from existing programs, which maybe not a lot of people
12:31understand. And then number two, there's no you know, it's hinting it's insinuating that there is
12:39money to to make a choice. But if literally all it's doing is just padding an expense that's already
12:46fairly cost prohibitive, then really what's going to happen is it's almost like, you know,
12:51when you go and you get that that, you know, those people that want to buy a luxury car,
12:56it's like, you know, they throw in the floor mats, you know what I mean? Like, you know,
12:59Right. You know, that's an analogy. You still have to be able to afford the car.
13:05And you have to be able to afford the upkeep of the car. Right. And then and then let's take
13:10that analogy a step further and say, then you actually have to upkeep the roads that the car is on.
13:15Correct. So it's great that we are, you know, trying to support choice. That's, that's a,
13:22that's a wonderful thing. But the biggest choice that we can give our
13:25Well, there's a hundred people for pretty cheap these days. You never know.
13:39Hi, you can come right here. Oh, yeah, it's important that you're here. So you can come
13:44right here. Do you want to sit and I'll just, we're just going to make this work. Yeah, exactly.
13:49One of the things, one of the things, Matt, that I keep thinking about is, you know, when you're,
13:53when you're speaking truth, there's always people that want to keep that truth quiet. So I don't
13:57know who's listening, but we're going to keep speaking the truth no matter what.
14:00Sure.
14:01It doesn't matter who interrupts us.
14:02Right, exactly.
14:03Right, right. Absolutely.
14:05Including the truth that we're in the same place. There you go. There's another truth.
14:08There you go. There you go.
14:10Well, you know, it's good to have backups when recording. So thanks, Matt.
14:14Oh, of course.
14:16Of course. We were, so we're talking about education now. I'm curious too about,
14:21you mentioned international education earlier.
14:23Yeah.
14:23And does that relate to Ukraine or what's, I'm curious about that.
14:28No, actually, I was teaching in Warsaw, Poland. We actually lived abroad for a year and I was able
14:35to teach at an international school there and gain that experience. And what I was going to share,
14:40you know, before I got interrupted by whatever technology snafu just happened is that, you know,
14:47I have the experience of being a public school teacher and I have the experience of being a private
14:51school teacher. And where the vouchers are going are to schools that are not held accountable to the
14:58state that don't have regulations like the state funded schools do. And as we're moving away from
15:06this, as you're taking funding away from schools, you're actually promoting less funding going to
15:15that public school, which then causes property taxes to go up. And what does it have the highest
15:22property tax? So when I talk about economy and education being intrinsically linked, that's what
15:28we're talking about. So if we're taking funding and action away from our schools, then we're driving up
15:33property taxes on people who are already paying huge amounts in property taxes that really don't
15:38need to be burdened with that and shouldn't be burdened with that. Yeah. And that's something
15:42that seems to be, that's kind of a bipartisan issue, right? Because everybody complains about
15:47property taxes, at least in this state. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Although, I mean,
15:52we do need to tax something. I mean, I don't know. I'll be the, I'll be the, I'll be the dark cloud on
15:57that one. You know, we, but that's a whole other issue, you know. Well, but they're linked,
16:02right? They're linked. And so the thing is, is yes, we do need taxes, but then the question is,
16:07how are we doing that? How are we using those funds? And if we're taking funds out of a pot,
16:13I mean, it's not, it's not an infinite pot, right? That's why we have a budget. Yeah.
16:19Then we need to be able to refill it. And as this voucher program continues and becomes limitless,
16:25the governor will be required to refill that pot. Yeah. That funding is coming from our tax dollars.
16:31Correct. Correct. And, and my, my bigger concern also, Sarah, I don't know if you feel this way, but
16:36what people may be sort of the elephant in the room and people quite literally, when we're talking
16:40about the Republicans, um, the, the elephant in the room there is that they're looking to ideally
16:46not just give it to people for private school funding and this type of program and charter
16:52schools and this nature, but ultimately they'd like to transition it into religious base schools.
16:56And like, you know, it already is. Yeah. So you can use your voucher for paying for a religious
17:01base school. Yep. Yep. No doubt. No doubt. Which becomes basically propaganda and not about education.
17:09Um, Sarah, can I ask you this though? Do you, in terms of, because sometimes when we talk about taxes
17:14and I've, I've, um, this is something where I've historically disagreed with Democrats. Um, although I
17:20think it's only a fraction of Democrats who support this idea, but the idea of, um, bringing about a
17:26sales tax or, or a state income tax or something, which I, I personally think is a bad idea, uh,
17:35because, uh, well, for a couple of reasons, but I'm curious to know your position on that. Cause I,
17:38I don't think that's the right solution, but what, what say you? Yeah. I think that there are a lot of
17:45different ways that we can meet the needs of funding for our schools. And we look at how we're
17:50taxing. We can look at some of these pools of funding, like the, the, the funding pool that the
17:56vouchers are being taken out of to support progress in our schools. We can look at the fact that
18:03recently we had taxes cut to our highest income bracket businesses and otherwise in New Hampshire,
18:11which created a deficit in our state budget. So we're looking at, and we're talking about
18:17taxation and how it directly impacts schools and property tax. It's a, it's a much bigger and more
18:23complex issue than that. And I think we need to get a bunch of people and community members and
18:28business owners included to get in on this and say, Hey, how can we actually create a solution
18:34that meets the needs of everyday granite staters that isn't saddling granite staters
18:39with huge property taxes that are not actually feasible for them and are pushing people out of
18:45our state, good people out of our state. Yeah. I mean, I think we're going to have to explore,
18:51I mean, you know, I'll, I, again, I'll be the, the, the naysayer. I, I actually don't have an issue
18:57with, um, you know, I, I'm one of those people that I, you know, I spent 20 years in the DC metro area.
19:03So, you know, it's probably only about as untaxed as Massachusetts would be taxed. So like,
19:08I don't have a problem. I've always believed that you, you get more for your money, you know,
19:13you get more, which you get what you pay for basically. So I think that those of us are
19:17going to afford to pay taxes. And those of us that can afford to pay for social programs should
19:22expect to pay. I mean, I don't have a problem taxing people that can afford to pay for this stuff.
19:26Um, I mean, you know, but I'm not a politician. I think it's something we'd have to explore. And I
19:31certainly think it's something we'd have to have a dialogue about, but I do feel that
19:36as the cost of living goes up, as social security is in danger of not being funded as Medicaid,
19:42all these things, all these social programs, and in fact, we want to increase the social programs,
19:46then we're going to have to figure out a way to pay for these things. So especially those that can
19:51afford to do so, I, you know, it's not unfair to ask these people to pay more of their fair share.
20:00Well, and I think Matt, it, it comes back to that analogy that we were going down before about
20:05being able to maintain the roads, right? Are we only going to pay for the roads that
20:10we drive on? Sure. Okay. So there's tolls, right? We put tolls in place for, for some of those,
20:16but in our, our communities, you know, our roads are maintained and our schools are an essential
20:24backbone of our communities to support the developing upcoming generations. And, and, and,
20:32and that ripples out and just so many levels. And so I think, yeah. And so I think looking at the
20:39schooling issue really is more complex than that. And because that is one of the biggest
20:46reasons that people have talked about, how do we deal with this increased property tax?
20:53You know, and, and maybe an argument would be, and I would be interested in this, like maybe,
20:57so the argument for like increased property taxes or like property taxes being unfair is that you have
21:04situations where you have like people that maybe began as agricultural. So they have a large swath of
21:09land necessarily have large income. So theoretically they should be paying a lot of taxes, right?
21:16Because they have a lot of land, but the reality is it's not like this land is necessarily making
21:22the kind of money it needs to make to be able to afford the taxes. So I think it's a good point.
21:27I would almost argue that an income tax would be more fair than a property tax. So, you know,
21:32maybe slightly reduced property tax or figure out a different way to, to, to assess property taxes,
21:37but then add an income tax, because I do feel like people, especially at the, the higher income
21:42bracket should be paying some income tax. I mean, why should they be allowed to come and live here?
21:47Why should this become a freeloader state for millionaires and billionaires? Although we don't
21:51have a lot of billionaires at this point, but seriously, you know, New Hampshire should not
21:55want to become a tax shelter for rich people that just don't want to pay taxes. I think, I think that's
22:01a valid argument. I do think though that it, I mean, it would be to, to actually, to actually pass an income
22:06tax in the state or a sales tax, it would be politically suicidal. Sure. That's why I'm not
22:11running. Yeah. Well, I, you know, I think, I think Matt, again, it is a more complex versus
22:22isolated issue. And when we take an issue in an isolated standpoint, we're not actually looking
22:27at the whole system and we need to step back and we need to look at the whole system. We need to look
22:31at the whole state system. And then we need to deal with the federal system because one of the things is,
22:36you know, New Hampshire gives a lot and it really is not getting the support that it needs from the
22:40state and from the federal government into the state. And now we're seeing that even more and
22:45we're seeing the impacts of that even more. And you know, one of the things we talked about one
22:50time, Sarah, in one of our episodes is that a lot of people don't realize this, but ironically,
22:56the tax, the states that tend to be taxed the most are the blue states. And people don't realize that
23:02because that's where the incomes are. That's where the greatest incomes are. That's where all the
23:05industry is on a federal level. Yeah. On a federal level. And then, and yet like these,
23:11and then we're paying for these red states to basically do all these draconian things we don't
23:15want them to do. So that's my bigger issue on a federal level. I have an even bigger issue with,
23:20with taxes. Uh, but you know, Hey, that's a show. That's another time show for another time.
23:25Oh, Oh, this, this question too. I'm really curious to actually, I don't know. And Todd,
23:30you and I haven't discussed this either. So I don't know what, what you think about this either.
23:33I'm really curious because this is something where I, I tend to agree with Republicans,
23:37but I'll go ahead and throw this out there, a state issue. I fully support the repeal
23:42of the, uh, state car inspections. I'm curious what both of you think.
23:48Why? I'm happy to see it go.
23:50I mean, so for one thing, I definitely would probably, my, my gut is no,
23:55because you're going to have, as it is, we already have these fools driving these like
23:59big gas guzzling trucks that they purposely seem to not want to follow EPA laws pouring pollution
24:07into our population. Not to mention this is the granite state. This is a beautiful state.
24:11Like we are, we, we, we're harmonious with nature. So I, I would, I'd be inclined to say,
24:17no, I have no desire to like allow people to put cars on the road that aren't safe cars and,
24:22and wreck the environment any more than it already is, you know, damaged.
24:26I think that happens anyway, but what do you think, Sarah?
24:29I'm, I'm curious why you support it, Matt, because I think one of the things that
24:33we need to be doing more is hearing each other out. So I'm really curious
24:38why you're in support of this. So, so, um, a quick anecdote. So my first job when I was in high
24:44school was working at Sears. Remember Sears? Oh, I do. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was my first job.
24:50And I did not work in the automotive department at Sears, but I learned from my co-workers
24:57very quickly. It became an open secret within the store. Don't bring your car there for an inspection.
25:04But why, I would say to my co-workers, I work here. I'm an employee. Those guys are always nice to me.
25:10They're very friendly. And, you know, they're my friends. What, what's the problem? And what my
25:15co-worker explained to me is, Matt, here's the thing. It doesn't matter how nice they are to you. It
25:20doesn't matter if they think you're, if you think they're your friend. When you bring your car here
25:25for an inspection, it might only have 40,000 miles on it. And you know, for an absolute fact,
25:30there's nothing wrong with it, but you're not going to drive out with an inspection sticker.
25:34This is Sears. It doesn't work that way. You're going to leave here with a $1,500 estimate for work
25:40that your car needs to pass inspection that it probably doesn't even really need.
25:45So I got, I got soured pretty young on the whole, to me, it's a scam because we all know,
25:54we all know, we, we all, it's either happened to us or we know somebody it's happened to.
26:00Time to get the car inspected and you get this huge estimate handed to you. And then maybe you
26:04take it somewhere. You trust a little more to get a second opinion, or maybe you have a friend look at
26:08it and they say, ah, they're, they're, they're stealing from you and they're extorting you. They
26:13put a gun to your head and say, you're going to give us all this money or you don't get your sticker.
26:18And I'm just kind of, I'm, I'm over it. I'm done with being extorted every year.
26:25Well, and I'll just quickly say something. I would agree with that, Matt, but luckily,
26:30I guess I'm locked out because I've never had that experience. Like that's good.
26:34Pretty much always told me bottom line, but I've also always gone to a family mechanic.
26:39Well, that's good. Yeah.
26:40It's inspected and whatever needs to happen needs to happen. And I trust this person.
26:45No, that's good. If, if you have somebody you trust, that's great. Not, not all,
26:48not all of us are so lucky. Yeah.
26:50So, you know, Matt, I think this, this brings up an important point in terms of accountability.
26:56So it sounds like, you know, and, and, you know, we don't have anybody from Sears on here to
27:02defend them. So I don't want to attack.
27:03Oh, this became, this became a national, this became a national scandal actually,
27:07because not only was it happening at the location that I worked at, but at one point,
27:11I mean, this was pre-internet. So the whole story died a quick death,
27:15but, but apparently this was happening nationally at Sears automotive locations.
27:19So I'm not,
27:20Again, it comes down to accountability. So like I, I have been,
27:25I don't even want to count the years I've been driving at this, but you know,
27:29and I have not once had an inspection myself that has been that way. I've had inspections that
27:36have been like, you know, you really need to get your tires looked at. Like, oh yeah, I did do a lot
27:41of driving this year or, you know, your brake pads are pretty good. You need to get those checked at
27:46some point, you know, in the next three months, just keep an eye on those. And I really appreciate
27:51that. So I think what, what it comes down to is, is making sure that our systems do have
27:57accountability. And again, this goes right back to education and vouchers, right? Like across the board,
28:02you know, what are our accountability systems and being able to, to have these systems function
28:08properly. And when we have the, you know, the car inspections for safety, again, this is like our
28:16roads. This is like, you know, we, as a community, we're not driving in bubbles and isolated, driving
28:24together on the road. We are on the road together. We are in the community together. Whether it's our roads,
28:31our septic systems, our waterways, our schools, our vehicles, right? So how are we, you know,
28:38showing up for each other in community and making sure that we're engaging in a manner that actually
28:42allows everyone else to function as well and doesn't interfere with that. So I think it's something
28:47that we should talk about more, Matt, in terms of, you know, what would a good system be to make sure
28:53that our cars on the road are safe? And, and so I am concerned about that. I mean, and to that point,
29:00Sarah, I think that, you know, right now we're in sort of, um, two states, you know, of, of political,
29:07um, stagnation. We've got, you know, the MAGA Republicans on one side that seem to want to do
29:13everything and sabotage everything and, and have zero accountability. And then we have the DNC,
29:19which seems to a lot of the Democrats, um, at least like the traditional Democrats, they,
29:25they seem to want to sort of, um, um, either excuse things or minimize things or not offer any
29:31solutions, like say that's awful, but you know, how horrible, but not do anything about it. Like,
29:37so I think, um, whatever, whether, you know, red, blue, or, or purple or yellow, whatever color you are,
29:46we need accountability in our leadership in general. I mean, I think accountability and trust
29:51and, and integrity, those three things need to come back in any, in all parties and with all
29:57political leaders and, and certainly. Yeah. Sure. Come back though. I don't, I don't think those
30:02things ever existed. And I think they did. I, I, I'd like to think that there were people out there
30:07that had it. I mean, maybe not as many as we would hope. Oh, sure. But, but there were people,
30:13I mean, you know, but I think the system right from the very beginning, because honestly,
30:17not to sound, uh, overly cynical, but I think there's an element of just plain old human nature
30:21to it. I think, I think any political system is going to have a certain lack of accountability
30:27because with power comes, you know, the more power that is amassed, the less obligation to be
30:33accountable, uh, people tend to have. And I think that's, and I don't, I don't say that. I don't say
30:39that to, I'm not challenging anything you said. I, I think everything you both just said about
30:42accountability is very, very important. I'm just saying that's part of the challenge because
30:46it's like the, I hate to say it. It's such an overused cliche, but it's valid.
30:51Absolute power corrupts. Absolutely. And, and that's, um, so I don't, I don't think there's
30:56ever been true accountability ever. I mean, not to interrupt the sad part about that is,
31:03I mean, there's you, there's myself, there's Sarah. So there are people out there that have
31:07a level of influence that actually do think beyond our little, you know, blinders and, and what
31:13personally benefits me, you know, like for instance, I could say, oh, I don't care about
31:17school. I'm a gay man. I don't have kids, but like, that's ignorant. You know what I mean? So
31:21like, I think we have to stop. I think that the problem, at least from my perspective is that the
31:27United States, um, is almost on this hyper, like the, yes, they're democratic, but they're also hyper
31:34capitalist. And I think that they've equated capitalism with this, like uniformity of like,
31:40me, me, me, it's all about me just being, and no society can function that way. Like it's
31:47absolutely impossible. If everybody got what they wanted all the time, 24 seven, then we'd all be
31:54screwed. So, you know, cause there's no way to do that. It's, you know, it's, it's, so I think that
31:58we have to get away from, you know, um, I mean, I dare, I say it, I think we start to need to follow
32:04some of the European models where these people seem to be okay with certain things being government
32:10subsidized. Certainly, you know, God forbid be socialistic, but, um, you know, but it's not a
32:17dirty word, you know? And I think we need to get away from that. Like this whole idea of like
32:21success and, and self-preservation at any cost, stepping on people that already are being stepped
32:28on. Like it's really unnecessary. And I think it's my job, your job, Sarah's job to push this
32:35forward to the younger generations too, and hopefully try to, um, you know, reinstate a
32:41sense of civility and a sense of civic duty. Yeah, absolutely. What's it, what's a you, Sarah?
32:48I'm really curious how, how do we do that? So I think one of the things that, uh, Todd hit on that
32:54I'll kind of dovetail on, cause there are things I agree with and things I don't, but, um, is really
32:59that we're operating in silos. And when we operate in silos, we have a closed system that is completely
33:07isolated, that is not able to take in new information, that is not able to be resilient.
33:12Um, and so, and we're seeing that across the board, uh, and that actually, it, it, it breaks community
33:21bonds and it dehumanizes us because we keep thinking, well, that's not my problem or that won't
33:28impact me. And the reality is, is it does those ripples do come out. So like, you know, Todd
33:36mentioning, I don't have kids. So why do I care about the school system? Well, the school system
33:40in tax it, you know, impacts your property tax, it impacts home value impact, you know, if you own
33:45a home, if you're lucky enough to own a home in New Hampshire right now, right. Cause that's a whole
33:50other conversation. Yeah. But I think in terms of accountability, you know, which I think is the
33:57point that you're getting at Matt, right? Like how do we actually instill accountability
34:01and further this at a state level, at a federal level? And what I want to point out is that
34:07at our federal level, the current administration has now gutted all agencies that would have
34:14held the administration. Right. Right. All the way. Oh yeah. Oops. Yeah. Completely.
34:19Including the FBI. The FBI is responsible for investigating the administration office.
34:24It's all been a coup in slow motion. A slow motion coup. So we're watching this happen. So
34:30what we as a people need to do is stand up and say, I don't think so. This is not going to happen
34:35on our watch. We need checks and balances for this exact reason. Right. Because we do need to be held
34:41accountable and we do need to be held, you know, in check when we are in positions of power.
34:48People who are in positions of power have a great ability to impact and affect change.
34:53But the greatest impactors of change are the people.
34:57And to that point, Sarah, I think the problem with a lot of people, and for whatever reason,
35:03I was never this way, but a lot of people, and I don't blame them for being this way,
35:08it seems insurmountable. It seems overwhelming. It seems impossible. Because what they're trying to do
35:14is save the whole world at once, but which is impossible, right? None of us can save the whole
35:20world at once. But together, as we are, you know, mobilized and organized, we can make incremental
35:27changes that will ultimately lead to better habits and better behaviors that will ultimately give us
35:36a better, more sustainable and seamless system. I mean, it is possible. It's just, you know, we all
35:42have to do our part. And if everybody did a little bit, then there would be no obligation for a few of us
35:47to bear the burden of like thousands, you know? So, you know, I would love to like have this more
35:54universal accountability of like everybody, you know, it's like I say to people all the time,
35:59you know, like when we're, you know, when we're dealing with organizers, for instance,
36:02we have older people and they say, oh, I can't march like that. You know what I say? I say,
36:05you don't have to march like that, but fill out a postcard, talk to your neighbor, tell your story,
36:11like, you know, stand up for what you believe in. All these things matter and they may seem small,
36:17but collectively they're huge. That's a really important point too about, and I like what you
36:23said about, you know, people get, cause you're right. People, people begin to feel overwhelmed
36:27and discouraged because it's, they want to save the world and you can't save the world all by
36:32yourself. You can only do your part. You can only do what you can. And hopefully if we're all working
36:37together to do what we can and do our parts, then, then together we can all save the world,
36:42but we've got all, we can all only deal with really what's in front of us and deal with that
36:47first and then maybe expand out from there. And right. But, but you gotta, yeah, you, it's,
36:53it's easy to become mentally overwhelmed by it. Sure. But the answer is not to do nothing. And
36:57that's the problem. People think, oh, well, I can't do as huge of an impact as I want. So I might as
37:03do nothing, but what they don't realize is that, see what stagnation comes rocks and people don't
37:08realize that it's not with stagnation. Doesn't come homeostasis. Like you ultimately have to do
37:14something when you don't grow, ultimately you decay and die. So there's no option here. Like this is
37:20not an option to do something because it's all of our world. So we want this world to exist. We got to
37:25do something. You know, I'm, I'm inspired because behind us, there is an image of, uh, of the Polish
37:31Eagle right up here. Okay. And one of the things that I found amazing living in Warsaw is that
37:38Stadamiasto, the old city was completely raised in world war II, like brought to rubble, complete
37:44rubble. And with, with the pennies of the people and the work of the people, they rebuilt it completely.
37:51And it's absolutely beautiful in all of its revamped historic glory. And I do think that's really
37:58important, uh, as, as Todd mentioned, as you pointed out, Matt, that each of us in whatever
38:04capacity we have, have something to offer and contribute to this. And altogether, you know,
38:10as cliche and maybe as cheesy as it sounds, we really have the capability to make a difference.
38:16You know, I had the incredible experience of, uh, in some of my teaching, uh, I, I, I've done a lot of
38:23experiential ed. And so some of that has been through farm education. And in one of my teaching
38:30positions, we moved a greenhouse. Wow. Okay. We moved a massive green. And what we did is just like barn
38:39moving, we all grabbed a piece and were coordinated and that's the key piece because when you are
38:48coordinated, you are able to do massive things together and we can do that. And moving that
38:54greenhouse and seeing those middle schoolers see what they could do if they all came together
39:00and worked together was incredible and so empowering. Right. And I think what becomes really
39:06hard too, is like, you know, I know in our house, you know, three kids and working and what is the
39:15time, what is the extra time you have in your day or anyone has in their day to give to this, right?
39:21When you're trying to pay the bills, keep the roof overhead, you know, keep food on the table.
39:26Yep. Where is that little wiggle room that you have to bring into this? And so I think it's really
39:32important that, you know, those of us who are in positions to lead community or bring
39:36community together, continue to try to find openings for people to jump in and make things more
39:42accessible. Absolutely. Because everybody does have something to offer.
39:46And make it welcoming, you know, like welcome people in. And, you know, I think it's important.
39:52The other thing too, I think we have to move away from like discussing, you know,
39:56differences as far as like discussing differences and celebrating differences is one thing, but
40:00discussing differences and pointing out each other's flaws is counterproductive. Like it doesn't help.
40:06So we need to focus more on what people can do rather than what people can't do.
40:10Yeah. You know, and I think that the other thing too, this is the thing that I'm very modernist
40:17about in the sense that like, look, I'm not going to lie. I get a high from this. Like it makes me
40:22happy to help. And I don't, I'm not ashamed of saying that. So like, you know, I'm not asking people
40:28to be selfless because it's not selfless. Like it's my world, just like it's your world. And I am going to
40:33get something from this. Right. Apologize for that. So, you know, I'm not asking for people to do the
40:39impossible, be invested in something just, you know, you know, as like saints or whatever, you
40:44know? Yeah. You're going to get something from this and I hope you do. I hope. Right. Yeah.
40:50I mean, and the other piece of that, Matt, that I think about, you mentioned Ukraine earlier. We
40:54haven't really talked about my involvement there, but you know, a couple of years, I've been
40:58building a nationwide coalition, uh, focused on advocating for Ukraine. And, um, it comes down
41:07to that exact conversation of what do you have to offer? And when it doesn't, that you, you know,
41:14are always on, right. These things are a marathon and we have to be able to tap in and tap out and
41:19have a team. And for three years, this nationwide coalition has been advocating for and working for,
41:26uh, you know, in, in the interest of our own national security, if we look at what Ukraine
41:31just did to some nuclear capable carrying aircraft, um, it is in our interest, right? And we're all
41:41capable of doing this, whether it's a phone call or an email or even a conversation with a neighbor,
41:47you know, and making that a full connection. Um, I think it's really, it's really important. We all
41:53have something to offer. We really do. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, what, what haven't we talked
41:59about in terms of issues, uh, that we should 50 million of them, we're going to have to have her
42:03on again. Would that be okay, Sarah? Absolutely. I would love to be on with you guys. Maybe we can
42:07get, you know, better, uh, technological system for me, but I'm grateful for sharing a space to make
42:14sure that this works and happens in this day and age. It's a, it's a great platform, but I mean,
42:19you know, we haven't talked about healthcare, Matt, uh, about Medicaid, Medicare. Uh, we haven't talked
42:25about, um, you know, the housing crisis we see in New Hampshire. We haven't talked about the
42:31homelessness and, and opioid crisis and, and, you know, lack of support for that, uh, despite a lot
42:37of grassroots efforts. Um, I think there are, you know, there are so many topics, you know, when you
42:43break it down to cover, but they all come down to human rights. Oh, in our great state of New
42:51Hampshire, you know, live free or die doesn't mean or die. Right. It means give all you have to make
43:00sure we're able to live free. Right. And that freedom is the freedom to liberty and pursuit of
43:07happiness. Right. So life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. What, what is life? Okay. Right.
43:12Let's talk about education. Let's talk about healthcare. Let's talk about making sure that
43:16our, our people can have homes that they can afford, you know, because basic level survival
43:23is not living. Right. It's like, I keep thinking like, you know, we're keeping people who wants
43:27to just exist. Right. Right. Their nose in their mouth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Treading water and
43:33they can barely. Yeah. I agree. And so I think those are issues we need to tackle. Yeah. And also
43:38stop asking people like my favorite, what, what I try to put in perspective is like, how is it fair?
43:44How would it be fair for me to call certain things like luxuries or privileges when all of these things
43:51that we categorize as privileges, I take for granted. I have all of them without, without a
43:56second thought. So why am I any more like, you know what, why is it my right to have these things,
44:03but it's not other people's right. And I think that, you know, especially a lot of our political
44:08leaders and certainly some of the ones that, you know, just did this crap with a big, beautiful bill,
44:13which we could cover, you know, whatever, like that's basically what they're saying. They're almost
44:17saying like, do as I say, not as I do. Like, I mean, honestly, can you think of a better social
44:22program that supports people than the, uh, the U S Congress? I mean, these people are set for life,
44:28like talk about it. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things on that, you know, we,
44:35we haven't talked about the implications of the, uh, bill that was just passed. That's a ticking
44:39time bomb because the things don't go into effect until the next Congress comes in. So it's basically
44:46like a bomb, a TNT package with a long wire that was just lit to explode when the next Congress comes
44:54it. Although we'll sabotage it and take it down too. So there is that, that is the power of the
44:59people, you know, we have the ability to, to interject and reverse that. Absolutely.
45:05There's going to be, I was just going to say, there's going to be a pretty big, I mean, you know,
45:11historically this would be expected anyway, but I think it's going to be a very large blue wave
45:16in 26. I do, but when we get on that wave, let's like do something with it this time. Like let's
45:23stop. And, and I'm not saying it's not important to reach across the aisle because I really do
45:27believe it is important, but also it's important to hold some of these people to accountability.
45:33I mean, some of these people are outright being criminal and there is nothing wrong with telling
45:38people, you know, and this could be a whole other topic. We've, we've, but we've touched on some of
45:42this stuff. Like for instance, the way that ICE is behaving and things like that, that is so
45:47un-American and just so, it makes me sick. So like, you know, it's okay to say to people,
45:53I don't care if they're in power. It's okay to say, you know what, what you did is not okay.
45:57It's not right. And we're not going to tolerate it.
46:00Yeah. You know, Matt, to, to that point, you know, one of the things I didn't share about my
46:04personal story is, you know, my, my grandmother is one of 800 people that survived the woods or
46:09Lod's ghetto in Poland. I have literally stood holding her hand next to the grave that she was
46:16forced to dig for herself and narrowly escaped being in a matter of 24 hours. Right. So, so these
46:23things happen incrementally. It's crazy. Okay. And, and what we've seen just put together in Florida
46:30is incredibly concerning what we've seen in the budget that was just passed that gives our
46:38administration, essentially his own private service of force that is not held accountable
46:46by like, for example, our armed services that take a pledge to uphold the constitution.
46:53This is a concern. This is cause for alarm. Absolutely. And that does bring us back to
46:58your point of where people get paralyzed and okay, what do I do? Yeah. And at this point,
47:04what do you do? You reach out, you talk to your neighbors, you talk to your community,
47:09you get involved, you make sure that you're communicating and saying, we want change. Yes,
47:15absolutely. We want change. We want to look at our federal budget. We want to look at our state budget,
47:20but we don't want to be ripping our neighbors off the street without due process. I mean, very frankly,
47:26Matt, my 96 year old grandmother, who I was just mentioning, who's still alive. And here,
47:32here in this country, she's a naturalized citizen. We've just had conversations of denaturalization.
47:39So that's talking about my 96 year old grandmother who already dug her own grave and lived in a Nazi
47:46ghetto camp. Yeah. These are real. Yes. Right. And I think the more we bring real faces to this,
47:53the more real it becomes. And also here's, here's something that I hope, you know, I don't know
47:58who's listening, but here's a little bit of a, of a secret. If you're quiet, that's when they win.
48:05Don't be afraid to have a voice. That's actually what they want us to do is be quiet. If you're not
48:10quiet, they don't win. Half their power is perceived power. And we can, as much as they have it, we can
48:16take it away. And we just have to stand up and demand that they do, they work for us. We don't work for
48:21them. Well, you know, and I would just say too, uh, you know, uh, to, to Democrats who feel
48:28discouraged by what's going on, you know, if, if you don't think it's possible to seize power and wield
48:34power, they've proven you can, right. I mean, look at what they've done. They, they managed to reelect
48:44after January 6th, they actually, yes, they actually managed to reelect the guy behind an
48:53attempted overthrow of the government. And yes, who is a multi-time convicted felon and all of it,
48:58they managed to put that guy back in the white house. So yeah, you can fill the administration
49:04with a bunch of, uh, predators. Yeah. So, so I would just say to Democrats because, and,
49:13and Sarah, you know, Todd has already heard me rant about this stuff, but, you know, Democrats,
49:18I think sometimes are a little afraid to fight or they don't want to be perceived as being unfair,
49:25you know, fighting too dirty or whatever, but look at what the, look at what they do on the other side.
49:31I mean, we gotta, we gotta be tough. We gotta, right. You know, and, and, and forceful and not be
49:36afraid, you know? I think you just hit it in that last, that just that last part,
49:42Matt, of we have to not be afraid to speak up and stand up. And that doesn't mean that it's not
49:51terrifying. That doesn't mean that it's not concerning. Right. And I think, you know, to,
49:57to kind of boil this down a little bit, you know, yes, I am a registered Democrat. However,
50:03I think this now goes far beyond party lines. Oh, absolutely. Far beyond party lines. This is
50:10about humans. This is about our neighbors, our colleagues, our friends, our family. You know,
50:18this is no longer, you know, left, right, middle. This is, this needs to be forward. You know,
50:24we've gotten so hung up on these culture wars that we've been, it's smoke and mirrors.
50:29Yeah. We've been distracted by what has happened and we've been pitted against each other when
50:35ultimately many of us actually find common ground. We don't have to agree on everything.
50:40Right. Right. I'm never going to convince somebody of the same beliefs I have, but we have to find
50:46common ground so that we can create policy that actually serves the people and meets the needs of
50:52the people. Yeah. You know? And I think that's really important here is that we need to, we need
50:58to build coalition like we've never built before and we need to be coordinated and action and we need
51:04to go beyond party lines because it's no longer one or the other. This is about humans. This is about
51:10us. This is about our people, our schools, our children and our families. Yeah. And, and to,
51:15and to back that too, it's also about, it's about like this system right now that if everybody was
51:22really honest with themselves, there's a very 1% of 1% that are winning here and everybody else is
51:27getting screwed in the process. So we all have to wake up and realize that and say no more. Like we
51:32don't want, we didn't ask for a King. We didn't ask for a oligarch and it's time we all say that
51:39loudly and proudly like enough is enough. Yeah. And I think, you know, to that, to that point, Matt,
51:45I think that what we were talking about earlier about giving people access, right? So for people
51:52like me, like Todd, like you guys on this platform of being able to give people access and ability to
51:59act in a way that they are comfortable with. But also, you know, within, within the work that I've
52:06done the last three years, there have been comments that really resonated with me. And
52:13one of them was recently from, no, it's okay. From Alexandra, my teacher, who's a Nobel prize
52:20winner, who said, you know, in these times, it is absolutely essential that ordinary people do
52:27extraordinary things. And those extraordinary things can have immense impact because very frankly,
52:35like, I don't think there's anything special about me. Why was I able to help build this nationwide
52:40coalition? Right. Because I decided to, because I stepped up to, we all have a capacity to play a
52:47role in this and support. And that doesn't mean getting up on stage and speaking. That's not
52:52everybody's cup of tea, right? Like that's okay. But maybe it's making a phone call. Maybe it's writing
52:56an op-ed. Maybe it's, you know, creating a postcard campaign to your locally elected officials office.
53:03And then speaking out to your neighbors and community. And start with your circle and work
53:09outward. You know, like a lot of times, I mean, I've had conversations with people, you know, that
53:14initially they didn't see it, you know, a certain way. And then I would say something like, well,
53:20you know, your child is voting this way. Why don't you talk to your child? If not me, talk to them,
53:25talk to who you trust. Yeah.
53:26Yeah. And see why they believe in what they believe. And the person literally said, you know
53:31what, I'm going to do that because I don't know what I think the way I think and why I want to do
53:35this, you know, and there, and I'm, you know, I like to believe that that changed that hearts and
53:40minds, you know, but I think that, um, yeah, I think this is all very possible. Um, but not just
53:47possible, but we have to do it. I mean, in my opinion, I, that that's just my belief, but.
53:51And, and, and, and do it with, with, uh, commitment and energy. And because, and Todd,
53:57you've heard me say this too. One of the things that really frustrated me after, uh, after the
54:01election was the, the endless amounts of hand wringing. Oh yeah. That I saw on the left,
54:07like people just like, what do we do now? How do we approach this? Do we try to be somewhat
54:13conciliatory toward MAGA? Do we, do we work with them where we can, or do we just be mad at them
54:19about everything or what, what do we do? And it creates this. And I remember Todd, you laughed
54:24the first time you heard me use this term. It created this analysis paralysis where everybody's
54:29like, Oh, we got to figure out how, you know, and then you spend so much time trying to figure out
54:34how to approach it. Then it gets to be too late. It's like, no, you just got to do it. Advocate for,
54:39do it. You know what, then where you can, but do it, fight, make mistakes, learn from the mistakes.
54:46You know, no one's saying it's going to, it's going to be right. The first time we are going
54:49to fall down. We are going to, you know, get bruised. We are going to take some hits. That's
54:55life. No one said it's easy, but it's necessary. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I echo that. And Matt,
55:03I think the analysis paralysis is something really important. And I also think that we have a lot of
55:09people that are disheartened, um, that feel like their voices don't matter. Yeah. Oh, and, and I
55:16think it's, it's people like us who are able to engage with the community to be a loudspeaker for
55:24those voices. Right. You know, I mean, Matt, very frankly, I'm only here because other people
55:30literally fought for my family. That is the only reason I'm alive. I mean, I am willing and ready to
55:36do the same. We'll continue to do so until we are in a place where we can have policy that actually
55:44meets the needs of our people. Absolutely, Sarah. And I think those of us that have been in the fight
55:48for, for a long time and have had personal, um, you know, challenges, um, you know, really learn
55:56from those challenges. Hopefully that's the ideal. Right. I mean, I mean, listen, I'm in education.
56:01Okay. I'm a teacher. I, you know, mistakes are learning experiences and, uh, you know, not,
56:07not things to look at us as failures. We all have to work together and learn together and show up how
56:12we can. And we are imperfect humans having this human experience together. And I think that's the
56:17most essential thing to remember. Absolutely. We are all humans doing this together. Yeah. I mean,
56:23thank God we're not perfect. I think it makes it much more interesting that we're not, frankly,
56:27I would agree. Yeah. It'd be a pretty boring world if we were, um, well, so, uh, we, we were at about
56:34an hour. Should we, uh, should we wrap this one up? Sure. I mean, up to you. What do you think,
56:39Sarah? Is there anything we, is there anything we didn't talk about that we, I mean, we're not on a
56:44time limit. I don't know if there's anything else you wanted to get to today. We can. I think,
56:49you know, that was, that was a good capsule, Matt. I think we have a lot more to talk about.
56:53Yeah. I look forward to, you know, engaging with you guys more and, and using this platform to get
56:58the message out and bring people in. Um, and, and I think that's important for anyone who's
57:03watching to remember that your personal platform is incredibly powerful. Right. And, and being able
57:10to use that is a readily available tool that you have. And, and also, uh, for people that are
57:15watching, tell your friends, tell your neighbors, tell all of that. I mean, obviously, because I want
57:19people to watch, but more importantly, we created this platform because we want to give you guys a
57:24platform. Like, uh, you know, one of my jobs doing what I do is I'm giving you guys the tools
57:31to, for your voice. And I'm also giving you the, okay, I'm giving you the green light. Come on,
57:36like talk to me, challenge me, disagree with me. I hope you do. That's what this is all about.
57:41It's about conversation. Yeah. It's about conversation, problem solving, and figuring this out
57:46together. Cause that's the only way we're going to get through it. Thank you, Matt. Thank you,
57:50Todd. Thanks for having us. Yes. Thank you so much, Sarah. We really appreciate it. We look
57:54forward to having you on again. Absolutely. Thank you, Sarah. Wonderful to have you on and, uh,
57:59Todd, a pleasure as always. Yep. Absolutely. And, uh, everybody follow us on social media,
58:04of course. And, uh, uh, Todd, do you want to, do you want to mention a website or anything,
58:10uh, for, or where should people go to find you to keep up with everything you're doing?
58:12Um, I mean, right now, I guess, uh, you know, certainly follow the, the YouTube channel,
58:18the I, um, IMP, um, what is it again? The IPM nation YouTube channel. Yeah. Yeah. And I need to
58:26do a better job, like getting on my, my stuff, but yeah. Um, okay. I don't know. But we all have
58:32our strengths and weaknesses. Yeah. Yeah. That's not my strength. You know, we got to help each other
58:35out. That's why teams are so important. Yeah. Organization's not my strength. I fully admit.
58:39Not a problem. All right. Very good. All right. Episode five of hanging left is in the books
58:46and, uh, thank you to everyone watching. Thank you to everyone who listens to the podcast later.
58:49Thank you, Todd. And Sarah, thank you. Absolutely. Thank you. Thanks so much. All right. Bye everybody.
58:54Bye.
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