'It's A Straight-Up Question': Jared Huffman Grills Secretary Burgum On Sale Of Natural Park Lands

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During a House Natural Resources Committee hearing last week, Rep. Jared Huffman (D-CA) questioned Interior Secretary Doug Burgum about proposed sale of Natural Park units.

Transcript

00:00I'll now recognize Ranking Member Huffman for five minutes.

00:02Thank you, Mr. Secretary.

00:03I wish I had more time to get into this disparagement of renewables

00:06because your own state, Mr. Secretary, has 40% wind energy power in North Dakota,

00:11nearby, and Iowa, it's 60% plus.

00:14We have 40%.

00:15My time, Mr. Secretary, 60% plus.

00:17Some of the lowest electricity rates, one of the most reliable grids in the country,

00:21so we could absolutely have a robust debate about some of the things you just said,

00:25but I want to ask you about this balance sheet philosophy

00:28because you said nobody liquidates assets unless they're going out of business,

00:32but we've all seen corporate raiders like Carl Icahn build entire careers,

00:36taking over family-run businesses and raiding their employee pension funds.

00:41It happens all the time in private equity, but public lands should not be like that,

00:46and so I want to give you a chance to assure us that you're more like Teddy Roosevelt

00:50and less like Carl Icahn when it comes to managing our federal estate.

00:54You recently said that you, in your Senate testimony,

00:58that you were not proposing to sell off or divest any of the 63 so-called crown jewel national parks,

01:06but there were 370 other units managed by the national park system.

01:11These are places created by Congress that allow people across the country

01:15to get the national park experience in their own communities.

01:18They range from the MLK National Historical Park to Belmont Paul Women's Equality National Monument,

01:24Teddy Roosevelt Birthplace Historical Site,

01:27other beloved units that are critical to telling the American story.

01:31So simple yes or no, Mr. Secretary,

01:33will you allow the sale or divestiture of any of these units

01:38of the national park system to state, local, or private entities?

01:42I can give examples of what- Yes or no, sir. It's a straight-up question.

01:47I don't think it's a straight-up question. I thought you wanted to have a dialogue, but the dialogue-

01:51I don't want a dialogue. I want a yes or a no.

01:53Will you allow any of those units to be sold or divested?

01:56Well, thank you for being clear that you don't want a dialogue.

01:59All right. I want a limited dialogue.

02:02This is not a yes or no answer. I mean, you can ask me for a yes or no,

02:08but it's not a yes or no because this would require a thoughtful approach.

02:12I'm hearing, Mr. Secretary, that the sale or divestiture of some of those units is on the table.

02:16Is that fair?

02:17Well, take Knife River Indian Village in North Dakota.

02:19Less than a thousand visitors.

02:21We've got a bunch of- We have a superintendent.

02:23We have federal resources there.

02:24Mr. Secretary, I'm just going to take that as a yes.

02:26I have limited time and more questions.

02:29So, you have said that-

02:30But would you support us? The greatest gift-

02:32I'm not here to answer questions. I'm here to ask them, sir.

02:35So, I know you said you're traveling the country listening to park service personnel.

02:40I was attempting to give you- I'm trying to get to a question.

02:42So, you said you're listening to National Park Service personnel.

02:46I want to ask you about Alcatraz because I represent that park unit.

02:51There is no one in the National Park Service from the superintendent down to the janitor

02:55who would tell you turning Alcatraz into a federal prison again is a good idea.

03:00Will you listen to your park service personnel on subjects like that?

03:04Or will you go along with Donald Trump when he proposes something crazy in order to try

03:09to stick it to Nancy Pelosi for political reasons?

03:12Yes or no?

03:14Well, I work for the President of the United States and the park service is part of the

03:19executive branch and the park service reports up through the executive branch.

03:23So, while we want to listen to everybody, frontline soldiers don't get to decide whether or not

03:29we go into war or not.

03:31I mean, you're asking a hypothetical question-

03:33But isn't it your job to keep crazy, purely political things that are destructive to your

03:38agency off the table?

03:39Well, it's completely subjective on a definition of how you're describing an idea.

03:48Has anyone in the park service told you that's a good idea to reopen Alcatraz as a prison?

03:55I'm happy to get consultation from locals, from National Park, whatever, but it's a pejorative

04:02in terms of where you're describing these ideas.

04:04I hope you will.

04:05Sir, I really do hope you will listen to your park service personnel.

04:08Now, I want to ask you-

04:09Is the park service personnel in charge of the decisions around the nation's resources?

04:13I just hope you'll listen to them.

04:14You've said that you're doing a listening tour with them.

04:16I hope you will listen to them.

04:18Now, you have said that American public lands are assets that should be leveraged to pay

04:23down the national debt.

04:25Finance experts, including the former Republican director of the CBO, have said your proposal

04:30could only work if the U.S. entered into agreements with our foreign creditors to put specific

04:35lands up as collateral.

04:36I want to ask you specifically, because some of these creditors are China, Canada, France,

04:41India, Saudi Arabia, UAE.

04:43Will you put American public lands up as collateral in agreements with any of these foreign interests?

04:49No.

04:50And the thing that you've just suggested has never been discussed, never been in a meeting

04:55with that, so I don't even know where that idea came from.

04:57This is- there's not- when we- you're talking about leverage meaning debt, but we're talking

05:01about- if- if we want to run advertisements to the American people and say, you've got

05:0630- you own part of 36 and a half trillion dollars of debt, which we do every time we

05:11have a presidential campaign, we should also be running ads and say, Americans, you own

05:15part of a, what, 100 trillion, 200 trillion dollars of assets?

05:18Sir, you have repeatedly said we should use our public lands to eliminate the national debt.

05:23Yes, because we're getting a horrifically poor return on the assets that we have in

05:28our country.

05:29If our- if our- if our national balance sheet's worth a hundred trillion and interior pulled

05:34in 20 billion, one- a 1% return on a hundred trillion dollar balance sheet would be one trillion.

05:40We'd have all kinds of money for you guys to appropriate to spend on deferred maintenance.

05:44Our parks would be sustainable forever.

05:47These are simple things, but you know, we've got the greatest resources, land, minerals,

05:52rare earth minerals, wind, solar, I mean, you name all the resources we have on public land,

05:56we're managing them in a way where we're getting really horrifically bad returns.

06:00And there's nothing contrary with getting good returns.

06:03I mean, some of the companies that have the highest return in the country are also the greatest

06:07stewards of the assets that they manage.

06:10We can do the same thing.

06:11Thank you, Mr. Say.

06:12I hope we'll have a second round because this is too important to not do justice to this

06:16issue.

06:17The gentleman's time has expired.

06:18The chair recognizes-

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