- 6/10/2025
#CinemaJourney
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00:00The thing that keeps me on track mostly is just my immediate family and their
00:08happiness and also not pissing off my wife. Happy anniversary. I owe a lot of my
00:17success to my parents. My mother to this day says that I used to really turn it
00:22on for my father and but when he left the room I was a little shit. That's what I do for a living now.
00:32I'm a big professional shit. Award-winning comedian Tom Gleeson has been a fixture on
00:39Australia's comedy scene since the 1990s. You know when people say oh yeah last night I slept
00:44like a baby yeah it was great. What does it mean you slept for an hour woke up drank milk did a shit
00:49woman and tried it up. His sharp and dry wit sold out theatres across the country and propelled him to
00:56TV stardom. These days he's most recognised as the host of Hard Quiz and Taskmaster. These contestants
01:05have already had a go and mucked it up. I really enjoy shocking people and I don't mind being shocked.
01:10Your grandparents were cousins. Correct. Most people probably not mention that. I think I might get
01:16my humour from my mother. I used to always say I got it from my father. Looking back on her she's
01:23actually very funny. Very very cutting. Very sarcastic. Very dry. So I'm doing this show for my
01:31mother because I feel like I know a fair bit about the Gleesons but not as much about the good ones which
01:37is my mother's side of the family. My brother Phil has been looking into the family history and I think
01:47he discovered that our family history isn't quite as tidy as we thought it was. And I'm really interested
02:00interested in the difference between stories I was told and the actual facts. I don't feel the
02:10responsibility of what my forebears have done. But I mean it would be better if they were nice people
02:17wouldn't it? In search of myths and legends. Oh dear this is not great. Now I'm moving into true crime
02:25territory. Tom discovers a hardened criminal past. His wife's rooting around and he killed two people.
02:32He was a good-looking murderer. Feuds on the goldfields. Wow it's like something from good the bad and the
02:39ugly. And rewrites a family legend. Okay I'm hoping I'm adopted at this point. You've brought great shame
02:45upon me.
03:15I grew up on a farm near Tamba Springs which is near Gunnedah in New South Wales.
03:38Born in 1974 to James Thomas Gleeson and Annette Patricia Goodwin, Tom is the second youngest of
03:50their five children. I love growing up on a farm. I didn't understand how you could grow up anywhere
04:03else. When I was about 15 the bank took over our farm and we lost the farm.
04:15I was already at boarding school when the HSC was the most important thing in the world at that time
04:21for me. And obviously the school fees couldn't be paid anymore. So the school made up a pretend
04:25scholarship for me so that I could still go there. So I was very very focused on doing well at school
04:31because I knew how much trouble people were going to to keep me there. It was just hard to see my
04:38parents go back to zero. It's like they had their life up to that point and then they had a second
04:43life where they had to start all over again. And the way they did that I find so impressive.
04:52Tom was always close to his father James who passed away in 2018.
04:57I would say I'm close with my mother now as an adult. I don't think I appreciated her as much
05:05when I was a child. My mother didn't talk as much about her family and she thought that her past was
05:16quite boring. A lot of my trees are Irish Catholic and we were always taught that there was the potato
05:24famine in Ireland. So that's the reason they all came out to Australia and there were no convicts at
05:30all. But I think that that's not the case. So I am curious about getting back through the layers
05:39beyond my grandparents because I also think that we're not as Irish as I think we are.
05:45I'm pretty sure my pop, Arthur Goodwin, his mother I think might have been German. That's what I
05:52always thought. But I think that I think it's it's got to be more complicated than that.
05:57To investigate the ancestry of his maternal grandfather, Arthur Goodwin, or Poppy,
06:02Tom and his older brother Phil have taken DNA tests. Tom's heading over to Phil's house in Sydney's
06:10Blue Mountains to review the results. Hello?
06:16Just pull out the laptop.
06:18Okay, so what you see is these are the regions that you've got ancestry from. So we've got Ireland
06:24at the top, 58%. Yes.
06:26It is your dominant component in your genetics. Thanks, Dad.
06:29What about Pop's side of the family, Arthur?
06:33Then we've got England and North Western Europe, 22%.
06:37I didn't realise there was English ancestry.
06:40And 5% Germanic Europe.
06:42Okay.
06:43So if you cast your eye back to this family tree, what you see on Poppy's side, if we go
06:49all the way back to your fourth great grandfather, Thomas Carpenter, he was born in England.
06:55Following the line of his maternal grandfather, Arthur Goodwin, Tom's four times great grandfather,
07:02Thomas Carpenter, was born in Surrey, England in 1784.
07:06He got in trouble for stealing a watch, and he was convicted and sentenced to death.
07:16But they commuted the sentence to life. He was put in a hulk in Portsmouth Harbour for
07:2210 months before he was sent out to Australia.
07:27So finally a convict.
07:28Yeah, it's a convict.
07:29Yeah.
07:30Not just a convict, an English convict.
07:32I thought I was Irish, so I'm totally mongrel.
07:36It's a good name for a pub.
07:38The total mongrel.
07:39I mean, that's what mum would say, yeah.
07:41Yeah.
07:41Yeah, so Thomas Carpenter sailed into Sydney Harbour on the Admiral Gambier, but he didn't
07:46hang around long, and should probably head up the road to Mount York.
07:51Okay, just up the road.
07:53It's handy.
07:54Okay.
07:54Okay.
07:54Okay.
07:54Okay.
07:54Okay.
07:54Okay.
07:54Okay.
07:54Okay.
07:55Okay.
07:55Okay.
07:56Okay.
07:57Okay.
07:59Finally found a convict.
08:01He got sentenced to death for stealing a watch.
08:04Seems a bit extreme.
08:07He cheated death and got to become an Australian instead.
08:12Sounds like a good piece of luck, really.
08:17Good piece of fortune.
08:22To find out how his four times great-grandfather served out his sentence in Australia,
08:28Hello.
08:29Hi, Tom.
08:30Hi.
08:31Tom's brother, Phil, has asked historian Kate O'Neill
08:34to help Tom navigate local convict records.
08:38You're four-time great-grandfather, Thomas Carpenter.
08:41You might want to have a look at the man himself first.
08:43So let's have a look at this.
08:45Let's hope it doesn't blow away on this windy day.
08:51Oh, all right.
08:53So this is the convict register.
08:55Thomas, Thomas, Carpenter Thomas.
08:58Yes.
08:59So he was on the Admiral Gambier, 1809 trade.
09:05He's a labourer.
09:07Oh, here we get a sense of what he looked like.
09:10He was five feet, eight and a quarter inches.
09:13Fair.
09:14Well, I'm fair, so it makes sense.
09:16Hair is light brown, hazel eyes, and...
09:20Hang on, it's got a little note that says he's good-looking.
09:23That's unusual for our description,
09:26so he must have been quite good-looking to stand out.
09:29Wow.
09:30Good-looking, maybe best of a bad lot.
09:32Yes.
09:33Yes, indeed.
09:35So he came here in 1809,
09:39and then he was employed to build a road here in the Blue Mountains.
09:44He was part of a team that was chosen by William Cox,
09:47who was given the task by Governor Macquarie
09:50of creating a road across to the west.
09:54In July 1814,
09:56respected English military officer William Cox
09:59supervised construction of the first European road
10:03built through the Blue Mountains.
10:04Tom's four-time great-grandfather, Thomas,
10:09joined a crew of 30 men
10:11as they built 163 kilometres of road
10:14through the rugged mountain ranges to Bathurst.
10:18It only took them six months...
10:21Six months to build a road over the Blue Mountains.
10:24It's impressive.
10:25I mean, there are potholes near my house
10:27that the council haven't fixed in five years.
10:29And that was the amazing thing about it.
10:32And also, it wasn't done through punishment.
10:36It wasn't a chain gang.
10:38It wasn't a group of people
10:38who were in shackles or chains anymore.
10:42William Cox treated his labourers very well.
10:45The incentive was
10:47they would be granted their freedom at the end of it.
10:50So when it was completed in 1815,
10:53your poor Pines great-grandfather, Thomas Carpenter,
10:56was granted a pardon, and so he was a free man.
10:58So good-looking Thomas now has his freedom.
11:01What does he do with it?
11:03Well, he meets a lovely lady by the name of Catherine Shaw.
11:06And they must have headed off
11:07because a year later in 1818, they were married.
11:10Oh, so Catherine Shaw is my four-time great-grandmother.
11:13Grandmother.
11:13And over the next ten years, he has four children.
11:17OK, so do they live happily ever after?
11:20So it all seems pretty good for them.
11:22But the next record we have of him is from 1828.
11:28OK.
11:30All right, so this is the Sydney Gazette,
11:32Monday, February the 4th, 1828.
11:35Police report.
11:36Oh, no, here we go.
11:38Windsor.
11:39Thomas Carpenter against James Turner.
11:42Complainant stated on his oath that improper familiarities, OK,
11:49has been given and taken by his wife
11:52and the defendant, James Turner.
11:55All right, so he's found his wife in bed with James Turner.
12:01Sounds like it.
12:02As it says, improper.
12:05Improper familiarities.
12:07Yeah.
12:07He did not like this Turner.
12:09Oh, no shit.
12:12He now complained more particularly of an assault committed by a defendant.
12:16He having given him a thump on the mouth.
12:19The defendant said he was assaulted first.
12:23Assaulted.
12:23Assaulted first.
12:25But the complainant from the marks of violence
12:27certainly appeared in the worst pickle.
12:29There's no other record of what the outcome of this, unfortunately, was.
12:33So you don't know if he spent time in prison or was fined or something.
12:36Poor Thomas.
12:38Poor Thomas.
12:40Stole a watch.
12:41Found a wife.
12:42Lost a wife.
12:43Oh, dear.
12:44And then...
12:45Yes.
12:46Oh, no.
12:47The next record we have...
12:50OK.
12:52Sydney Gazette.
12:54Thursday, March 19, 1829.
12:57Notice.
12:58Whereas one Thomas Carpenter of the Currajong
13:01has been committed on the coroner's warrant
13:04charged with the willful murder
13:07of Joseph Copson and Charles Paul.
13:12So...
13:18He's...
13:21So Thomas is a murderer.
13:24My four-time great-grandfather is a murderer.
13:28Well, according to the charges...
13:31Oh, Thomas.
13:32I thought he stole a watch.
13:33He did.
13:34But he seemed so innocent.
13:35He was a hard worker.
13:37Now his wife's rooting around and he killed two people.
13:39I don't know.
13:41He seemed like such a simple lad.
13:43Now he seems complicated.
13:44He was a good-looking simple lad.
13:45He was a good-looking murderer.
13:47Oh, no.
13:48I mean, I've got so many questions.
13:49Was he found guilty?
13:50Did he do it?
13:51Were there more people?
13:52Well, for that, you'd have to go to the scene of the crime.
13:55MUSIC
13:55My four-time great-grandfather, Thomas Carpenter,
14:09I was excited about him being a convict,
14:11but I was wanting him just to be one of those, you know,
14:14quiet, bread-stealing ones.
14:17So it still feels a bit strange
14:19knowing that I share DNA with a murderer.
14:23I thought he was a man of virtue and a hard worker
14:26and now I'm moving into true crime territory.
14:31Excited by his ancestral connection
14:33to the good-looking murderer, Thomas Carpenter,
14:36Tom's heading to the western Sydney suburb of Glasodia,
14:40the scene of his four-times great-grandfather's crimes.
14:45The question on Tom's mind,
14:48is Thomas really guilty of murdering two men?
14:52He's hoping historian Mark Dunn has cracked the case.
14:59I just want to show you this.
15:00OK, so it's the Sydney Gazette.
15:03Saturday, March 21, 1829.
15:05Coroner's inquests.
15:07An inquest was held on Saturday the 14th
15:10on the bodies of Joseph Copson and also Charles Paul,
15:14whose verdict was that Joseph Copson,
15:16on Thursday the 12th day of March,
15:18at a creek called Sally Bottom Creek...
15:20That's where we are now.
15:22...which is where we are now.
15:23...was fired at by Thomas Carpenter,
15:26which wounded the said John Copson
15:29by passing through the head and brain,
15:32so that the said Joseph Copson instantly died.
15:36Wow.
15:36I am descended from a man who shot someone in the head.
15:41It would appear.
15:43Yeah.
15:43Mm.
15:44At Perkins Farm,
15:46Thomas Carpenter wounded the head and brain
15:50of the said Charles Paul,
15:52whereof he instantly died.
15:54By each of which acts,
15:56the said Thomas Carpenter is guilty
15:58of willful murder.
16:00I mean, I'm trying to find the positive in it.
16:07He's a good shot.
16:10He's been found guilty.
16:12Well, that is the coroner's opinion,
16:15and then it'll go to trial.
16:16Okay.
16:16But I'll just show you this as well
16:17to put it all in a little bit of context.
16:20Okay.
16:21So this is a parish map of a place called
16:22the Parish of Currency,
16:24which is where we are.
16:25So in the report,
16:26it says that Charles Paul was shot at on Perkins Farm.
16:31Yeah.
16:31Which is this one here.
16:32On lot 45, it says Samuel Perkins.
16:34So that's where one of them being shot.
16:36Yeah.
16:36And then the one next door, lot 46,
16:38is actually where your four-times great-grandfather,
16:41Thomas Carpenter, was living.
16:42Right.
16:43But you might notice here
16:44that his name is not on the ownership.
16:47Oh, yeah?
16:47And it says...
16:49Oh.
16:50Lot 46 is owned by...
16:53James Turner.
16:56The same James Turner
16:57that ran off with Thomas's wife, Catherine?
16:59Yes.
16:59Yes, the same James Turner.
17:01That dirty bugger.
17:02Yes.
17:03So hang on.
17:05So...
17:05But he's living on that land.
17:07So does that mean that James Turner
17:09was his landlord?
17:10Yes.
17:11And so his wife slept with his landlord?
17:14Correct.
17:15And then he got so angry,
17:17he shot his neighbour.
17:18Well...
17:19I'm sorry.
17:20I'm trying to put it together
17:22like a bad true crime podcast.
17:23Not quite.
17:24It is a complicated story, though.
17:25OK.
17:26So what happens is
17:27Thomas is living out here
17:28with two of his children.
17:30James and Catherine have moved on,
17:32taken half the family as well.
17:33In March 1829,
17:35Thomas Carpenter is at home
17:37and he hears the dogs barking.
17:39He comes out,
17:40thinks he sees someone in the distance,
17:42but before he can investigate any further,
17:44there's a gunshot
17:44and a bullet goes through the hat
17:47and blows the hat off the top of his head.
17:50Wow.
17:50It's like something from
17:52good, the bad and the ugly.
17:53A little.
17:54Yeah.
17:54Yeah.
17:57The following morning,
17:58a neighbour arrives
17:59and says they've been robbed,
18:01that there are bushrangers on the loose.
18:02And so Thomas goes
18:07and survey the farm
18:08and see if anyone's still around.
18:12And after some hours,
18:14he comes across a small camp
18:16and sees two men sitting in the distance.
18:20He thinks these might be the culprits,
18:23so he calls out to them.
18:26They jump up and do the runner.
18:28So he chases one of the bushrangers,
18:32which turns out to be Charles Paul.
18:36Paul turns and takes a shot
18:39at your four-time great-grandfather Thomas,
18:41which misses.
18:43But Thomas takes a shot
18:45before Paul gets the chance to shoot again
18:47and sure enough, it hits him
18:48and he's killed.
18:51And then continues on the hunt,
18:54follows the track up through the back here,
18:56heading towards sort of the base of the Blue Mountains.
18:59Right.
19:00He finally comes across
19:01and sees a man in the distance.
19:04So Thomas takes another shot
19:06and he hits the other bushranger,
19:08which is Copson.
19:09And he's killed.
19:12Then, the interesting thing is,
19:15he goes and actually turns himself in.
19:17So it sounds like self-defence,
19:19because he turned himself in.
19:21Yeah, but you do have two bodies
19:22that have both been shot in the head.
19:24Um, so the coroner then says
19:27he's guilty, he should go to trial.
19:28Right.
19:29So, it goes to trial
19:31and then it gets slightly murkier.
19:34Turns out Copson had been offered
19:36a bribe of 20 pounds by James Turner
19:39to knock off your four-time great-grandfather.
19:43He put a hit on him.
19:45Okay.
19:47The plot thickens.
19:48Yes.
19:49So...
19:49I always knew James Turner was a grub.
19:51So, that's interesting
19:54because we know James Turner
19:55has run away with Thomas Carpenter's wife,
19:58Catherine,
19:58and obviously he wants
20:00my four-time great-grandfather,
20:01Thomas, out of the picture.
20:03That is what it seems like.
20:05And so, once this all comes out,
20:07essentially what the judge says to the jury,
20:09if with all this evidence in front of you,
20:11if you think that he has acted
20:13in a role of self-defence
20:15because he has been attacked in his own home,
20:17then you have to find him innocent.
20:20So, the jury agrees that, in fact,
20:22he has acted in self-defence,
20:23so he's found innocent.
20:24So, my four-time great-grandfather
20:27chased down two bushrangers
20:29and shot them in the head.
20:30Yeah.
20:31Got away with it.
20:31Got away with it.
20:34Charges dismissed.
20:35I mean, what a life.
20:36So, two years after all this,
20:37after the drama of the trial,
20:39he dies when he's 46
20:40and he's buried in Windsor
20:41and that's the end of his story here as well.
20:43He had quite an action-packed life, though.
20:45He did.
20:45But I feel like there's a loose end.
20:47I want to know what happened to Catherine Shaw,
20:50Thomas' wife,
20:51who ran off with that dog, James Turner.
20:54Nine months after this trial date,
20:57she turns up in the records again
21:00and she's living and having a child
21:03with another man called John Medhurst.
21:06But they have moved away from this area.
21:09To find out more about her,
21:10you're going to have to go north,
21:11about 140km up to Buckety.
21:14You'll find her up there.
21:15I thought my family tree was boring, to be honest.
21:23But my family history is turning into
21:26a colonial version of Days of Our Lives.
21:32We've got James Turner taking on a hit
21:35on my four-times great-grandfather, Thomas.
21:38You dirty bastard.
21:44Then Catherine has also left James Turner.
21:50So what on earth has happened to her?
21:55Unravelling his ancestral soap opera,
21:59Tom will discover yet more infidelity
22:01and a crime that threatens to ruin Catherine's life.
22:14Comedian Tom Gleeson has traced his four-times-great-grandmother,
22:18Catherine, to Buckety
22:19on the traditional lands of the Dhakunjung people.
22:29Colonial expansion on their lands
22:31was driven by the construction of the Great North Road.
22:36Built in the 1800s,
22:38the road connected Sydney to the growing Hunter Valley.
22:41In the remnants of the remaining road...
22:45Hey, Tom! Over here!
22:46Oh, g'day!
22:47What are you doing down in that ditch?
22:50Tom's meeting historian Dr Meg Foster
22:52to ask her about Catherine's new partner,
22:56John Medhurst.
22:57What do you know about John Medhurst?
22:59Nothing.
22:59Nothing.
23:01Okay.
23:03Well, hey, so, John Medhurst.
23:05Yeah.
23:06He came over as a free settler in about 1825.
23:09So he's not a convict,
23:10so maybe Catherine is moving away from the bad boys.
23:14Yeah, it could be an upgrade.
23:15Yeah.
23:16So in 1830,
23:19he and Catherine have their first child, Elizabeth.
23:21The following year,
23:23they actually get land in Wollombie.
23:25But a few months later,
23:27things take a bit of a turn for the worse.
23:29So I'm just going to give you this to read.
23:32It's a witness statement from the 1831 quarter sessions.
23:36Okay.
23:37Excerpt from witness statement of John Lanark.
23:40On the 27th of June last,
23:42I was at W Simpson's house at Maitland
23:45and I gave a bundle of fruit trees to John Medhurst,
23:50belonging to Mr White at Patrick Plains,
23:53which trees John Medhurst promised to deliver at Mr White's house.
23:57On being informed of the state
23:58in which the trees were delivered at Mr White's,
24:01I went and counted them
24:02and found there were 38 missing.
24:06John Medhurst, a bloody tree thief.
24:09He is indeed.
24:10So she's gone from a watch thief to a tree thief.
24:14Mm-hmm.
24:14This morning, the 13th of July,
24:18the woman, Mrs Carpenter,
24:19came to me and begged me to overlook what had happened.
24:23This was the first offence he had committed.
24:26Yeah, right.
24:28And that if anything happened to Medhurst,
24:30she did not know how she should support her family.
24:35She sounds a bit desperate.
24:36Yeah, you would be.
24:37She really didn't have a lot of ways to support herself
24:39apart from through a man like Medhurst.
24:43But despite her pleas,
24:45John Medhurst is actually convicted
24:46and he has to serve 18 months on the roads in irons.
24:50Unlike Cox's Road over the Blue Mountains,
24:53it took iron gangs and convict road parties a decade
24:56to finish the 250-kilometre Great North Road.
25:01The iron gangs worked in extreme conditions
25:04while shackled in leg irons and sometimes iron collars.
25:09It was a harsh form of punishment
25:11designed to deter criminal activity.
25:14It's a really hard and devastating sentence,
25:16especially from someone who came over as free to be in chains.
25:20What happens to Catherine?
25:21She's on her own now with children.
25:24So we do know that in December 1832,
25:27John Jr. was born.
25:29And I don't know how good you are with maths, Tom,
25:32but considering that John Medhurst went away in August 1831
25:36and John Jr. was born in December 1832,
25:40so I'll let you put two and two together there.
25:44That sounds like it was longer than nine months ago.
25:49It was indeed, which leads to the question,
25:52how could John Jr. have been conceived
25:54when John Medhurst was somewhere like this,
25:56working on the roads in irons?
25:58Well, straight away, I'm thinking James Turner was involved.
26:02Right, OK.
26:02Somehow, maybe James Turner's come and visited
26:04because he was a dirty dog
26:06and he would be happy to travel all this distance
26:08to mess up my family tree.
26:11I mean, well, something like that is possible.
26:14Catherine may have looked for another relationship
26:16while John Medhurst was on the road.
26:19On the flip side, John could have been released earlier
26:21because we don't actually have his discharge papers,
26:23so we don't know exactly when he was released.
26:27So we'll never know for sure, unfortunately.
26:29Did they get back together or...?
26:31They did, yes.
26:32So John Medhurst and Catherine,
26:33they reconnected in 1833.
26:35They actually married.
26:37They moved to Wollombay, to John's parcel of land.
26:40Wollombay?
26:40Is that far away?
26:43Just up the road.
26:50I was feeling sorry for John Medhurst
26:52and then I remembered I'm not even related to him.
26:55So I don't care that he was a numpty who stole an orchard.
26:58But at the same time, I'm worried
27:01about my four-times great-grandmother,
27:03Catherine Carpenter's taste in men.
27:08You know, she probably felt like she moved on to someone a bit better,
27:11certainly better than James Turner,
27:12who we all know is a dirty dog.
27:16Hopefully things work out for her.
27:21But I am a bit nervous about her prospects.
27:23Curious to know if his four-times great-grandmother,
27:29Catherine Carpenter,
27:31found her happily ever after with John Medhurst,
27:34Tom's making his way to Wollombay.
27:39Wollombay means meeting place of the waters.
27:42And for thousands of years,
27:44it's been an important ceremonial site
27:46for the Darkanjung, Awabakol and Wannarua peoples.
27:53Beautiful view.
27:55It's beautiful, isn't it?
27:56I'm Christine.
27:57Oh, nice to meet you.
27:58Historian Christine Yates
27:59has found evidence of Catherine and John's life here.
28:04And so what happens to Catherine and John?
28:07Well, things were going very well.
28:09They had five children
28:10and they were settled here at Wollombay.
28:13John Medhurst received a number of land grants,
28:16so they were well established.
28:19John was a pillar of the community.
28:21He supported the establishment of the school,
28:25the local school at Laguna.
28:26OK.
28:28So they weren't concerned about his past tree thefts?
28:33Apparently not.
28:35And then eventually they moved to Gosford.
28:38They settled there for a number of years
28:40and we have a lovely photograph of the couple.
28:44Oh, my goodness.
28:45Yeah, taken when they're older.
28:48Yes.
28:49Wow.
28:49After they had moved to Gosford.
28:51OK.
28:52So this is Catherine.
28:54Catherine.
28:55My four times great-grandmother.
28:56And John Medhurst.
28:57And John Medhurst.
28:58Who I'm not related to.
29:00But I can tell you, looking at Catherine,
29:02it's funny, she does look a bit like my grandfather.
29:05I can see it a little bit in the face.
29:07Hmm.
29:09Yeah, I can't believe I got to look at her after all this.
29:11I wasn't expecting that.
29:12But, I mean, photos would have been rather rare at this time.
29:16They were, yes.
29:17People had to sit very still for a time.
29:20So often they look a bit expressionist.
29:22Petrally disappointed.
29:24Yeah.
29:24That's probably true.
29:25Not many smiles.
29:26No.
29:27Ah, Catherine.
29:28Yeah.
29:30Sadly, in 1887, John died.
29:34He was 84 years old.
29:36We don't know exactly the circumstances,
29:39but we know that he drowned.
29:40That was the cause of death.
29:41Wow.
29:42So, OK, so then Catherine's on her own again.
29:44She's on her own, yeah.
29:45And she didn't have another partner?
29:46No.
29:46Because she seemed to be able to move on rather quickly in the past,
29:49which I have not been judgmental of.
29:52So John Medhurst may have been the love of her life.
29:55He may well have been.
29:56Now, we've discovered a wonderful newspaper article
30:00that was published before she died.
30:02So this is the evening news.
30:04Sydney, Thursday, January 8th, 1891.
30:07An old Australian.
30:09Probably the oldest living female native of Sydney
30:11is Mrs Catherine Medhurst.
30:14She, for 30 years, practised as a midwife.
30:16The old lady has been, as long as she can remember,
30:19a total abstainer.
30:22She'd never had a drink, but had multiple partners.
30:25So she has no excuse.
30:26Anyway.
30:27The old lady has the honour of having contributed
30:30to the population of this country
30:32a great many descendants.
30:35Well, she sure has.
30:36Nine children from two partners
30:39and that dirty dog, James Turner,
30:41who we won't focus on.
30:43Yeah, wow.
30:45They did leave a lot out.
30:46Yeah.
30:46They did.
30:47They did.
30:47They did, yeah.
30:48I mean, from what we've heard about her,
30:51they left all the cool stuff out.
30:53It's a very sanitised version.
30:55Oh, yeah, absolutely.
30:57It doesn't say, you know,
30:58and her previous husband shot two men in the head.
31:03Just left that bit out.
31:04Yeah.
31:05Then only three years later, in 1894, she died.
31:08How old was she?
31:09She was 94.
31:1194.
31:1194.
31:12Which is extraordinary.
31:14Yeah, for that time, it's incredible.
31:15It is, yes.
31:16It's a lovely story of a strong woman.
31:19Hopefully, I've got her genes
31:20and I can live just as long.
31:21I was excited to find out
31:37that I had convicts in my past.
31:40Thomas Carpenter beat a murder charge.
31:44He shot two people in the head.
31:45I mean, you'd think that that would be game over.
31:49Well, Thomas Carpenter was a good-looking lad.
31:53That was on record, so maybe that helped.
32:01I make no judgements about Catherine's decisions.
32:07I see Catherine as doing the best with what she had.
32:12My four-times-great-grandmother,
32:15Catherine's resolve reminds me a bit of my mother.
32:18You know, my mother's very tough.
32:19You know, my mother's a very strong figure in my life
32:22and I think that maybe she got that from Catherine.
32:32Having discovered the turbulent life and death struggles
32:35of his maternal grandfather's ancestors,
32:38Tom's heading home to Victoria.
32:40There, he'll investigate a myth linking his family
32:46to a vicious uprising on the goldfields.
32:56After discovering his convict roots,
32:59comedian Tom Gleason is back home in Victoria,
33:03ready to start his investigation
33:04into his maternal grandmother's line
33:06and a family legend that has piqued his interest.
33:11Hello.
33:12Oh, hello.
33:14Good to see you.
33:16Yeah, give me a cuddle.
33:17To find out more,
33:18he's catching up with his mother, Annette,
33:20and again with his brother, Phil,
33:22to ask them what they know.
33:24Thanks so much for coming.
33:26All right, in we go.
33:27Now, Phil, you've done a lot of research into the family
33:31and I have to confess that often you tell me about it,
33:36it's late at night,
33:37and I've usually had a few drinks,
33:38so I don't think I remember everything
33:39that you've shown me over the years.
33:41Fair enough.
33:42So a good place to start will be,
33:45you might remember this photo.
33:47Oh, yeah, I remember this.
33:48This was on the mantelpiece at Nan and Pops.
33:50Yeah.
33:50Yes.
33:51There's my nan, Rita, Reagan,
33:52and that's my great-grandfather,
33:55Lord Claude Hamilton Reagan.
33:57That's correct, yeah.
33:58When he was young and handsome.
33:59He is a good-looking rooster.
34:01Yeah.
34:01And he wasn't even too bad-looking when he was old.
34:04Still had all his hair, unlike my sons.
34:09There was a story passed down by Claude through the family
34:12that the Reagans were actually supposed to be Middens.
34:15Right.
34:16And so we believe that your three-times great-grandfather
34:21was this man, John Midden.
34:24Tom's maternal grandmother was born, Rita Reagan,
34:26in 1915.
34:29But tracing her line back,
34:31the Reagan name mysteriously disappears and becomes Mitten.
34:35And the family believe Tom's three-times great-grandfather,
34:39John Midden, was responsible for the name change.
34:42Right.
34:44So why would he change his name?
34:46The story that was passed down by Claude
34:48was something about our three-times great-grandfather.
34:51John Midden got into some sort of trouble on the goldfields.
34:55And there's a story about throwing the pigtails
34:58of Chinese miners down mine shafts.
35:00So there's a suggestion there of getting involved
35:02in some anti-Chinese race riots.
35:05What I'd really like to know is,
35:07can we find the reason why John Midden changed his name to Reagan?
35:12And is there any connection with the family legend?
35:15OK.
35:16Well, I'll try to learn that,
35:17and then late at night at a family function,
35:19I'll tell you and maybe you'll forget.
35:23Maybe.
35:28The family's previous inquiries
35:30into John Midden's baffling name change
35:32have all hit dead ends.
35:34But Tom has discovered a new lead in country Victoria.
35:38So I'm off to Kilmore,
35:39which is about half an hour's drive from my house.
35:45I wish I had some ancestors who lived in Paris.
35:52But I'm intrigued about,
35:54why did John Midden become John Reagan?
35:57If this stuff is true,
35:59I'm faced with the prospect
36:00that my ancestors are racists.
36:04And I think that it's better to know about it.
36:10In Kilmore,
36:12on the traditional lands of the Tungwarung people,
36:14Tom's teaming up with historian Andrew May.
36:17Welcome to the Kilmore Historical Society.
36:20To interrogate new information
36:22found in the town's records.
36:25Well, in only 41,
36:27your three times great-grandfather John
36:30and his wife Elizabeth
36:32settle in Kilmore.
36:35And we find John Midden purchasing some land
36:38to establish a hotel.
36:40OK, so he's going to open a pub in Kilmore where we are now.
36:43It's a good place with all the mod cons.
36:46It's on this new road from Melbourne to Sydney.
36:48He advertises it in the newspaper.
36:50The only problem is
36:51he didn't manage to get a liquor licence.
36:55He can get everything there except
36:56a pint of beer.
37:00You brought great shame upon me
37:02that my three times great-grandfather
37:05opened a pub with no beer.
37:07Yeah, it was for teetotling travellers.
37:09OK, I'm hoping I'm adopted at this point.
37:11This is quite frightening
37:12that I have anything,
37:14any genetics in common with this man.
37:16He's trying.
37:17He's trying, though.
37:18He's trying.
37:18He's entrepreneurial and that's...
37:19Absolutely.
37:20Yeah.
37:20He's making his own luck.
37:21That appeals to me.
37:22His fortunes do improve
37:24and in 1845 we read this in the newspaper.
37:29OK.
37:30So this is the Melbourne Courier,
37:32Monday, September 29th, 1845.
37:35John Mitten of the currency lad Kilmore
37:38respectfully informs the settlers,
37:41residents and the public generally
37:43that he has obtained a publican's general licence.
37:46He's got booze.
37:48He now has booze.
37:49That's a game-changer when you own a pub.
37:51So my honour has been restored.
37:551845, John and Elizabeth have a young family.
37:58They've got three children
37:59and in 1846 they welcome their fourth child,
38:04your two-times great-grandfather, George.
38:07But then it seems John gets into a bit of financial difficulty
38:11and he takes out a loan of £125,
38:15about $10,000,
38:17and he's struggling to make the repayments.
38:19Eight days after that payment's due,
38:23he sells the hotel.
38:24Tough times, huh?
38:26So what's he do then to try to pick up the financial slack?
38:30John makes enough money from the sale
38:32to repay the loan
38:35and to pocket a couple of hundred pounds profit.
38:39OK.
38:40So what do you do after that?
38:41Well, it's a really interesting period in the history of the colony.
38:46Gold is discovered in 1851.
38:48Gold's a big game-changer.
38:50Causes a lot of disruption.
38:53Gold fever.
38:54People running around every which way trying to make a fortune.
38:57It's very socially disruptive.
38:58But the big mystery in this period is that Elizabeth,
39:03your three-times great-grandmother,
39:06vanishes from the record.
39:09We have no record of her after 1846,
39:13whether they separated,
39:14whether she came to some unfortunate end.
39:16We really just don't know.
39:17There's no death record for Elizabeth.
39:20That's interesting.
39:21But we do then have some evidence in 1852
39:25about what John decides to do next.
39:29OK.
39:30Marriages solemnised in the parish of Kilmore
39:35in the colony of Victoria, year 1852.
39:39John Mitten and Hannah Humphreys
39:42married in this place of worship.
39:46So he's married Hannah Humphreys.
39:48Hannah Humphreys.
39:49Hannah Humphreys in 1952 is about 16 or 17 years old.
39:55OK.
39:55And he's 39.
39:56And she's like the opposite of a gold digger
39:59because she's like,
40:00wow, I found a guy who couldn't run a hotel.
40:03I might shack up with him
40:04and we can whittle our way through his meagre savings.
40:09So we don't really know what's happened,
40:11but he could have also gone on a trip to Sydney
40:13like the look of Hannah Humphreys,
40:15had a Henry VIII moment
40:16and had his previous wife killed.
40:18And it's quite possible.
40:19That's me speculating wildly,
40:21but it could have happened.
40:24It's a very topsy-turvy time.
40:25Yes.
40:26After 1852,
40:27we actually can find no further trace of John.
40:32Did you say after 1852?
40:34So this is interesting to me
40:36because the gold rush is happening.
40:39My brother Phil told me
40:41that a story's been handed down through our family
40:43that John Mitten may have changed his name
40:46because he apparently on the goldfields
40:50was cutting off the ponytails of Chinese miners
40:54and throwing them down mine shafts.
40:56We can speculate,
40:57but we actually don't really know what happens.
41:00We have no record of him in Kilmore after 1852.
41:06Well, what we do know is that John's children
41:10from the first marriage to Elizabeth,
41:13they do crop up in the records in Wangaratta.
41:18All right.
41:21I have to go to Wangaratta now.
41:24Okay.
41:24Could have been Berlin.
41:27Rome.
41:28Anything.
41:29I'd even be happy with Dublin.
41:35Well, I learned a bit more about John Mitten,
41:37which was good,
41:38because now I feel like I know more than my brother
41:41and I'm feeling quite competitive about that.
41:43I think it's fair to say John Mitten was a risk taker
41:48and I felt bad for John that he couldn't hold onto the pub.
41:52He took out a loan to try to cover his losses
41:54and then it slipped away from him.
41:57That reminded me of my own parents' misfortune
41:59with losing the farm.
42:01So I know what it's like to put so much hard work into something
42:04and then to lose everything.
42:07I've witnessed that up close.
42:08So, yeah, I felt sorry for him and his family
42:10and trying to get by.
42:12But we still haven't answered the question
42:14as to why he changed his name.
42:15We don't really know why.
42:17And plus, he's gone missing,
42:19so we don't really know where he is.
42:22Tom now has a deepening mystery on his hands.
42:26Where is John Mitten?
42:28Is he on the run from the law after race riots?
42:32And is that why he shed his identity?
42:35Tom's only chance of finding answers
42:37now lies 180 kilometres north-east in Wangaratta,
42:42Here, genealogist Phoebe Wilkins has arranged for Tom
42:47to access the town's records.
42:51John Mitten disappears, essentially, for the next decade.
42:56He becomes a bit of a ghost.
42:59We know that he definitely does change his name
43:01from John Mitten to John Reagan.
43:04So, one of the possibilities
43:06is the breakdown of his marriage to Hannah.
43:11Divorce was not an option at this point,
43:13so many men abandoned their wives and children.
43:18And one of the catalysts for that
43:19was the allure of the gold fields.
43:21Right.
43:22So, he potentially had the authorities looking for him
43:25for maintenance payments.
43:27Could this have been the reason why
43:29John Mitten changed his name?
43:32Right.
43:32So, that doesn't quite align with the story
43:34that I've been told.
43:36My brother's thinking it's because
43:37John was involved in the race riots
43:39at the gold fields where
43:41he was cutting off plats from Chinese miners
43:43and throwing them down mine shafts,
43:45which is either a family myth or a fact,
43:47but I don't really know.
43:48Have you found any evidence of that?
43:49What we do know is that John and his son George,
43:55your two-times great-grandfather,
43:56they settled from the mid-1870s
43:59at a place called Gorgong in New South Wales
44:04in the Mudgie region.
44:06From this, we can determine
44:08that they have left Victoria.
44:12If John had left for the New South Wales gold fields
44:17in 1860, then it is entirely possible.
44:20He could have been involved
44:21in one of the worst racially motivated riots
44:24in Australian history.
44:27In June 1861, at Lambing Flat,
44:30near the New South Wales town of Yonge,
44:33fierce competition amongst gold miners
44:35triggered anti-Chinese riots.
44:37A mob of up to 3,000 Europeans
44:41violently drove the Chinese out,
44:44burning their tents,
44:46beating and scalping men,
44:47some even taking traditional Chinese cube raids
44:50as war trophies.
44:54Months later,
44:56the Chinese Immigrants Regulation and Restriction Act
44:59was introduced
45:00to curb the numbers of Chinese in the colony.
45:03But the question is,
45:06was John Mitten involved in this
45:08and is this the catalyst for why he changed his name?
45:11Yeah.
45:12Of those more than 3,000,
45:15only 11 were brought before the justice system.
45:20So in all of the court and newspaper records
45:24from that time,
45:25there is no mention of John Mitten being a ringleader,
45:28which would indicate that he possibly was not involved.
45:33Or he was never caught.
45:36Therefore, if he wasn't a ringleader and named,
45:39would he have had a reason to change his name and flee?
45:43Well, that's interesting
45:44because that means that the Chinese race riots
45:46may not have been a reason for changing the name.
45:48And it's quite possible
45:50that this anecdote might be based on a conflating of events.
45:53That's right.
45:54What we do know
45:56is that John and his son George,
45:59your two-times great-grandfather,
46:01they remain in New South Wales at Gullgong,
46:04where they are going by the name of Reagan.
46:08OK.
46:09Well, I've been to Gullgong before.
46:12It's nice.
46:13It's got a good barbecue
46:13at the park on the main street,
46:15but it's not exactly Paris, is it?
46:18Well, I'm happy to go.
46:21I'll go to Gullgong
46:22and find out more about the Reagans
46:25and not the Mittens.
46:33It's probably not such a bad thing
46:34to find out
46:35that my family
46:35may not have been involved
46:37in race riots in the 1800s.
46:39All my relatives can rest a little bit easier.
46:43I'm intrigued about
46:44John Mitton becoming John Reagan
46:47and also I'm intrigued about him being in Gullgong
46:50because he might have run off to chase gold.
46:55Tom's hunt for the truth about John Mitton
46:57will expose a legal stoush
46:59with the family of an iconic Australian.
47:04Comedian Tom Gleeson
47:07is travelling to the New South Wales town of Gullgong,
47:10four hours north of Sydney.
47:13Meaning deep water hole,
47:15the town takes its name
47:16from the language of the traditional owners,
47:18the Wiradjuri people.
47:21So John Mitton and his son
47:23are now John Reagan and George Reagan.
47:27Now, Gullgong's known for gold.
47:31Maybe he came here to find gold.
47:34Or just open another failed pup.
47:40Determined to get answers,
47:42Tom has traced his three times great-grandfather John
47:45and his son George
47:46to Gullgong's golden era,
47:49the 1870s.
47:52To search the town's records for his ancestor,
47:55G'day.
47:56Tom's meeting historian David Warner
47:58at the Henry Lawson Centre.
48:02George and John were living
48:05at one of the satellite villages of Gullgong.
48:07Oh, right.
48:09Looks like a shithole.
48:11No, no, sorry.
48:11It looks, um...
48:13That's unfair.
48:17It was at the height of the gold rush
48:19and it's quite evident
48:21they were using the surname Reagan
48:23because of documents like this,
48:25a marriage certificate.
48:27February 26, 1874, Gullgong.
48:31George Reagan marries Elizabeth Winifred Harvey.
48:36Married in the temporary church, Gullgong,
48:39according to the rites and ceremonies
48:42of the Church of England.
48:44Oh, dear.
48:46This is not great.
48:47My Catholic grandmother
48:49will be rolling in her grave
48:51that she's descended from Protestants.
48:56Not long after the marriage,
48:59they moved to New Pipe Clay
49:01because there was gold found in that area
49:05and John leased a parcel of land
49:08to carry out mining from Peter Lawson.
49:13Now, Peter Lawson was none other than
49:15the father of the famous Australian writer
49:18Henry Lawson.
49:20Right.
49:21OK.
49:26But the relationship soured very, very quickly
49:30because Peter Lawson,
49:33even though he had no objection
49:35to the men mining on that parcel of leased land,
49:39what he did object to was their intent to build.
49:43OK.
49:43So what I'm finding out here
49:45is that my three-times-great-grandfather,
49:47John, pissed off Henry Lawson's dad.
49:50Yes, yes.
49:51So John Reagan, what do you think he built?
49:54What?
49:55A pub.
49:56Oh.
49:57He built an inn,
49:58but he only kept it for a few months
50:00and then leased it to some other gentleman.
50:02Well, you know what?
50:05I enjoy pissing off public figures too.
50:08Maybe it runs in the family.
50:09Right.
50:11Now, they stayed around that area
50:13for about five years.
50:15OK.
50:16They up traps
50:16and they moved 400 kilometres north
50:20to Walgett.
50:22And it was in 1888
50:24that John died in Walgett
50:27at the age of 75.
50:29Wow.
50:30That's a good long life.
50:31Yeah, for that time, certainly is.
50:34John's a real go-getter, isn't he?
50:35Because, I mean,
50:36John loves opening a pub.
50:38Yes.
50:39Not committing to it
50:40and moving on.
50:40And moving on.
50:42I'm similar,
50:43but I just drink in the pub
50:44and then move on.
50:45I don't try to own them all.
50:46Yes.
50:46I feel a little bit of disappointment
50:52that I couldn't really nail down
50:54whether John Mitten
50:55was part of those race riots
50:57at the gold fields.
51:00But at the same time,
51:02it's very exciting for me
51:03because I can tell my brother Phil
51:04next time I see him
51:05at a family function
51:06that he's full of shit.
51:07When I look back at my ancestors,
51:18I am inspired by their resilience.
51:23Yeah, that reminded me of my own parents
51:25and how strong they must have been
51:27to start all over again
51:29because my past is full of stories
51:33from people having to start their lives again.
51:38I've got a deeper respect for my mother now
51:40when I know where she came from.
51:44She's made of tough stuff
51:45and I think that her ancestors are too.
51:49I have made the mistake of thinking
51:52that people in the olden days
51:55were monogamous and boring
51:57and it turns out my ancestors,
52:00I find that their lives
52:01were far more interesting than I expected.
52:03Maybe even a soap opera.
52:06And how can I not do a stand-up routine
52:09about my four-time great-grandmother
52:10rooting away around colonial Australia?
52:15It's just going to get a mention.
52:19I can feel it.
52:24Next time on Who Do You Think You Are?
52:26I've missed out on so many years
52:28of not knowing my family.
52:30Camilla Franks encounters a feisty matriarch.
52:33Please tell me she kicked their butt.
52:34That makes her a bigamist.
52:36Oh my God, I love this woman.
52:38Confronts heart-rending trauma.
52:41Mental disease and exhaustion.
52:44I really resonate with that.
52:46And...
52:47Schmutter.
52:48Embraces a long-hidden cultural heritage.
52:52It's in my blood.
52:56Invent...
53:09...
53:10...
53:10...
53:11...
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