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00:00OK, after this bus.
00:04Here we go, Bobs.
00:06Actress and comedian Diane Morgan
00:08lives in London with her partner and their dog, Bob.
00:14I live in Bloomsbury.
00:16Ooh!
00:18In London.
00:20People are always surprised that I live in Bloomsbury,
00:22cos I'm from Bolton, and Bloomsbury's sort of fancy, you know.
00:27Diane starred in motherland as single mum Liz.
00:33Tea?
00:34Yeah, you haven't got any herbal, have you?
00:37Fennel, ginger, jasmine or mint?
00:40Ooh, I'll have mint, please.
00:42I'm joking, I don't have any herbal tea.
00:44I identify with Liz quite a lot,
00:47cos I am quite laid back and don't give a toss.
00:55But then, you know, I don't have kids,
00:56never wanted kids, so in that respect, we're different.
01:00But then maybe Liz didn't want kids either.
01:04Diane is best known for playing Philomena Kunk,
01:07a presenter of history programmes
01:09with a shaky grip on historical facts.
01:12King Arthur came a lot, didn't he?
01:15Came a lot.
01:17This is what I can't understand about any of those shows,
01:20like this one,
01:22where people go on a journey.
01:25You know, you'd think people would stop using those tropes.
01:29Even the tiny little things, like walking past the camera.
01:33I wonder how much wandering aimlessly I'll be doing in this.
01:36So I write this comedy called Mandy about this woman who can't hold her job down.
01:43And in one episode, she goes on,
01:47Who are you, do you think?
01:49Loosely based on,
01:51Who do you think you are?
01:53Not as good as Danny Dyer's, but still all right.
01:58But I never thought, like, in a million years,
02:00that you'd actually ask me to be on it.
02:03Come on, Bob.
02:04Bob.
02:05We're going to go to the park.
02:06You love the park.
02:08I knew he'd steal this.
02:09Come on, Bob.
02:10Bob.
02:11Come on, Bob.
02:12Bob.
02:13Bobby.
02:13He's just very headstrong.
02:16Aren't you?
02:18Yeah.
02:19Diane grew up in Farnworth,
02:21a town just outside Bolton,
02:23with her parents, Peter and Erwin,
02:25and her brother, Stephen.
02:27We all always loved comedy.
02:31It was highly prized in our house.
02:33We would watch comedies.
02:34And if you were funny, that was a really big thing.
02:38You know, you didn't have to get your grades.
02:39As long as you made us laugh,
02:41that would be fine.
02:44What's this?
02:45It's not lovely like this.
02:47Come on, Bob.
02:49Bob.
02:50No.
02:51No, Bob.
02:52My only reservation about doing this show
02:54was doing the slow head turn at the start.
02:59It makes me cringe just watching it.
03:02It's the only element of this show that I think,
03:04please don't make me do the slow head turn.
03:07It's so embarrassing.
03:08I know.
03:10We'll see you soon.
03:10We'll see you soon.
03:10We'll see you soon.
03:11MUSIC CONTINUES
03:41I enjoy trying to do The Family Tree online, but I'm not great on the computer.
03:45I go through phases of looking at it and trying to go further back,
03:50but I always get a bit kind of stuck at certain points or confused,
03:55so it's much easier to get a film crew around and just get them to research a Family Tree.
04:01There's certain elements of my dad's side that I don't quite get.
04:07When we talked about The Family Tree, I would be like,
04:11oh, they're all from England and they're all from Wales.
04:14And my dad would always say, yeah, apart from German, Charlie.
04:17Why did someone come from Germany to live in England?
04:21I'd also like to know about the Scottish connection.
04:25My great-great-grandmother was from Dumfries.
04:27There's a bit of a mystery with my dad's auntie Ginny, my great-great-auntie.
04:37She was going to marry a man called Albert Dugdale,
04:40and Albert Dugdale has become the stuff of legend in our family
04:46because we ended up with his war plaque when he died in the First World War.
04:54It seems weird that we've now got his plaque,
04:57and I feel like maybe it should go to his family.
05:01Diane can already trace her family tree on her dad's side back five generations,
05:07but there are still some mysteries she wants to solve.
05:10She remembers her father talking about someone called German Charlie
05:14and knows that there's a Scottish connection
05:17with her two-times-great-grandmother, Isabella Robson.
05:21But she's starting with the story of her great-grandfather's sister,
05:26her great-great-aunt Sarah Jane Morgan,
05:28known to the family as Ginny,
05:30who tragically lost her fiancé Albert in the First World War.
05:37Diane has come to South Wales.
05:38Her Welsh mum, Iowyn, moved back there
05:42after Diane's father died five years ago,
05:44and Iowyn has kept her husband's family archive.
05:50OK, so this is...
05:51Auntie Ginny.
05:52Yeah. Auntie Ginny is my great-great-aunt.
05:56Right, yeah.
05:57And George is my great-grandfather.
05:59Yeah.
06:00Well, Auntie Ginny's real name was Sarah Jane.
06:03Sarah Jane, yeah.
06:05So Ginny never married, did she, after...
06:07No, when he got killed in the war, didn't he?
06:09Albert Dugdale.
06:10Yeah.
06:12Shame on her.
06:13There's Ginny.
06:14I don't think I've ever seen this photo.
06:16Have you not seen this one?
06:18No.
06:18I mean, the noise in there was incredible.
06:20Yeah.
06:21That's her, isn't it?
06:23Oh, yeah.
06:25What, is this outside where she worked?
06:26Yeah.
06:27Where did she work, then?
06:29It's in a factory.
06:30Oh, was it?
06:30Yeah, at Garbidines or something.
06:32They were making raincoats.
06:35This is the death plaque.
06:37The medal, whatever it is.
06:39Mm.
06:40It's quite heavy.
06:41Sort of like a big two-pence piece.
06:43Mm-hmm.
06:44Yeah.
06:46Yeah.
06:48Albert Dugdale.
06:49Oh, yeah.
06:51So who gave this to Ginny?
06:53We don't know some of the war.
06:54I've no idea.
06:56And she hung on to this her whole life, did she?
06:58Yeah.
06:58And then she gave it to my brother, Stephen.
07:00To Stephen, yeah.
07:02Because she didn't have any kids, I suppose.
07:03No.
07:03And she thought, you know.
07:05And there's something about the name Albert Dugdale.
07:07It sticks in my head for some reason.
07:09Yeah, you always remember that.
07:11Yeah.
07:11Yeah.
07:12But it sort of feels like, you know, his family should have it.
07:16I mean, will any of them remember him?
07:18No, but it'd be nice to try and find his family,
07:22but I wouldn't know how to sort of go about doing that.
07:24No, I would never clear.
07:25Just go through the yellow pages and ring up all the Dugdales.
07:30The roll call of dead.
07:32It's amazing, isn't it?
07:33This is still in the family after all this time.
07:35All our time.
07:37Ah.
07:40There he is.
07:44There he is.
07:45A Dogdale, Royal Garrison Artillery.
07:51Oh.
07:52Oh.
07:53I don't know how long she knew him.
07:55If he's from Falmouth, she may have known him for years, you know, but...
07:58Yeah.
08:00Right.
08:01So I think we should look for Auntie Ginny on here
08:04and see if we can find something out.
08:06Good to see where Auntie Ginny was living, you know.
08:08Before the war.
08:09Just before the war.
08:10It should say on this census in 1911, she was a warper.
08:17Ah, yeah.
08:18Was that really called?
08:19Weaving and warping, isn't it?
08:20Warping, is it?
08:21Oh.
08:21For Newport Street.
08:23Oh, yeah.
08:24Let's see if we can find where Albert Dugdale was living in 1911.
08:30I'll put Falmouth.
08:33Bolton.
08:33There he is, Albert Dugdale.
08:36Personal Occupation.
08:38Weaver of Waterproofs.
08:40There you go.
08:41See?
08:41They were in the same factory.
08:43They must have met in the factory.
08:43Myself.
08:44Oh.
08:44See, their eyes met over some gabardines.
08:48Personal address.
08:50For Lark Street.
08:52Let's see who else is on here.
08:54Florence Dugdale.
08:55Joshua Dugdale.
08:56Wilfred Dugdale.
08:58Edith Emily Dugdale.
08:59Elsie Dugdale.
09:00Oh, yeah, so he had lots of brothers and sisters, so if he's got that many descendants, hopefully
09:06there's a good chance we can find someone.
09:08Yeah.
09:09Who I can give the death plaque not to.
09:14So I'm going to go to Bolton now to hopefully find out about my great-great-ante Ginny, find
09:20out what life was like in the gabardine factory.
09:24And that was where she met Albert Dugdale, so, you know, hopefully I'll find out some more
09:29about him, and maybe return the death plaque to the Dugdale family.
09:40It feels so weird being back in Bolton.
09:42It's sort of like dying and having your life flash before your eyes.
09:46It's like going back in time.
09:48Especially with, like, the octagon, you know, because that was my first job doing Polite
09:53Spirit when I left drama school.
09:54I'm just about to go and talk to a historian, but usually when I talk to historians, I'm
10:01in a completely different mindset, and I just want to be funny.
10:07But now it's weird.
10:09Now it's like I'm not allowed to say anything stupid, so...
10:13I haven't been here since I was about 16, 17.
10:21I can't believe how much it's changed.
10:24I used to study up there on that railing.
10:30Look at it.
10:31I mean, it looks like the set of Star Trek now.
10:34Nice.
10:35I like it.
10:37Diane is meeting historian and genealogist Dr. Michaela Hume.
10:43I just wanted to find something out about my relative, my great-great-auntie Ginny.
10:50This is her.
10:51This is Sarah Jane Morgan.
10:53Wow.
10:54So this machine, what she's working at now, is a warping machine.
10:58That, yes, it did say warper on the census I was looking at, yeah.
11:02Great.
11:02OK, so what she would have done is she would have basically set up the machine and then
11:07the weaver would have come and taken over and basically wove the fabric.
11:12Right.
11:12Shall we have a look at the next one?
11:13Yes, yes.
11:14Right, OK.
11:15So this looks like the factory where she worked.
11:19So I think she worked at a factory in Pandora Mills, and the factory was owned by two brothers,
11:25Samuel and John Presswitch.
11:26Oh.
11:28So this is likely to have been taken outside the mills, I mean, the late 30s, 40s.
11:34So she must have worked there decades.
11:38I've got a map I'd like to show you now, if that's OK.
11:41Oh, great, yeah.
11:45Farnworth.
11:47Now, let's see.
11:49I don't even recognise Newport Street.
11:51Newport Street, yes.
11:53So she lived there, my great, great Auntie Ginny.
11:57What about Albert Dogdale?
11:59OK.
12:00Lark Street.
12:01Lark?
12:02Oh, my God.
12:03So they were right next door to each other?
12:05Yeah.
12:05They were destined to be together.
12:08So where was the factory doing?
12:10Oh, there.
12:11You meet someone in the next street, and then you go to work in the next street, and...
12:15I've got a record for you from 1939.
12:19I just want you to have a look at it.
12:21Just keep going down.
12:22Oh, right.
12:23Oh, there.
12:23Sarah Jane.
12:25Yeah.
12:26I don't know what that says.
12:28It says Burberry.
12:30Burberry?
12:31Burberry?
12:32Oh, they may...
12:33No.
12:35Well, Burberry coats.
12:38Gabardine.
12:41My God.
12:43So, one of the Prestbridge brothers actually invented the waterproof thread,
12:50and when the thread was woven, it created a Gabardine that was not only waterproof,
12:56it could survive the elements, it was also breathable.
13:00Yeah, and you need a waterproof coat if you live up north.
13:05Oh, hello.
13:07So they did uniforms for soldiers as well.
13:09So this is what we think of today as, like, the Burberry trench coat.
13:14Mm, yeah.
13:15So, Albert Dugdale probably had one, did he?
13:20I don't know.
13:21No.
13:22He didn't have one?
13:23No, he wouldn't have been given one, and that's just because of his rank.
13:29During the First World War, Burberry developed their signature trench coat,
13:33but it was only worn by the officer class.
13:35While Ginny worked in Bolton on state-of-the-art waterproof fabric for Burberry,
13:42in the trenches in France, ordinary soldiers like her fiancé, Albert Dugdale,
13:47wore standard-issue woollen uniform.
13:50So on the subject of Albert Dugdale, the only picture I have, this is him.
13:56Auntie Ginny was given, I think they call it a death penny, death plaque.
14:00And instead of his parents, I presume because they were going to get married.
14:07But I've got that with me, if you'd like to have a look at that.
14:17It's gone.
14:20Hang on.
14:20Oh, here it is.
14:29Here it is.
14:30Oh.
14:32Thank God for that.
14:40Wow.
14:41They're sometimes referred to as a memorial plaque,
14:44but I think most people, especially in working-class homes,
14:47would call them the death penny.
14:48Right, yeah.
14:49So these were issued in 1920,
14:52and they would have gone to his next of kin,
14:54which wouldn't have been his fiancée.
14:56Oh.
14:56It would have been his parents.
14:58Yeah, right, so his parents must have given it to her.
15:01Yeah.
15:01So it's quite thoughtful of the parents, isn't it,
15:03to acknowledge her, you know, in his life.
15:06She was obviously very important, wasn't she, to him and the family.
15:09Yeah, yeah.
15:10Yeah.
15:10Yeah.
15:10Yeah.
15:19There's no glamour on my, who do you think you are, is there?
15:25I'm going to pretend to pay because I'm with the film crew.
15:27I'm on my way back to Farnworth, which is where I grew up,
15:41but it's also where Albert Dugdale and my great-great-auntie Ginny grew up as well,
15:48so maybe we'll see where they worked.
15:52No, they won't, because it'll have been knocked down by now.
15:54But, you know, you get the idea.
16:01He used to work at a dentist up there.
16:03One man came in and he'd done his own fillings
16:07with the soldering iron and copper sulphate,
16:10and they'd gone green.
16:12Back to send him to hospital.
16:16I once went to a seance in this building here.
16:20No-one came through.
16:28Newport Street.
16:31Ah!
16:31Oh, my God, so close.
16:33So, Newport Street is directly opposite where I grew up,
16:38on Phillips Avenue, and my dad never mentioned,
16:41oh, yeah, that's where Auntie Ginny lived.
16:45This used to be my local sweet shop.
16:48Look at this door.
16:50Nice, isn't it? It's like rising damp.
16:55Number 4 isn't here now, but it gives you a sense
16:58as to what it would have looked like when she did live here.
17:01Sort of a bit like Coronation Street.
17:03It's like Lark Street, isn't it?
17:09Oh, hello.
17:11I think Lark Street's this way.
17:15There we are.
17:16Lark Street.
17:18This is so weird.
17:19That's my old primary school.
17:20And he must have lived just here.
17:26Why did nobody say, oh, he lived right next door to your primary school?
17:32It's amazing to think how close they all lived.
17:37I mean, they must have just been, like, popping in and out of each other's houses all day.
17:41And when my great-great-auntie Ginny lived just there, and Albert Dogdale's family lived here,
17:48they must have got the news that he'd died and gone across the street to break the news to her.
17:55It must have been awful, devastating.
17:58Albert Dogdale died on the 18th of October, 1917, from the effects of gas poisoning, and was buried in northern France.
18:11Ginny carried on working in the factory and died in her 80s.
18:15She never married.
18:15Where was the Gabardine factory?
18:23Over there, was it?
18:26Oh, my God.
18:27I think I know where it might have been.
18:29It was right over that way, where I lived.
18:33So they must have demolished the Gabardine factory to make way for my family home.
18:38Diane is now keener than ever to return the death penny to one of Albert Dugdale's living relatives.
18:50While she waits for news from the teen genealogist, she wants to delve further back into her family tree.
18:57She knows her great-great-grandmother, Isabella Robson, came from Dumfries, in the southwest of Scotland.
19:03But beyond that, she knows nothing about her Scottish family.
19:08Good morning.
19:13I really like Dumfries, what I've seen of it so far, anyway. I think it's lovely.
19:22Diane is meeting genealogist Emma Maxwell at the Hewitt Library.
19:29So, Emma, I know that my great-great-grandmother, Isabella Robson, was born in Dumfries.
19:36But that's all I know, really.
19:39We've got a document to show you.
19:42This is a birth certificate.
19:43It's quite difficult to read.
19:45It is quite talented.
19:47Isabella Robson, 1862.
19:52So, do you see who that is?
19:54Someone Robson.
19:55That's right.
19:56Alan?
19:57Adam.
19:58Adam.
19:58Adam Robson.
19:59Yeah.
20:00So, Isabella's father was called Adam.
20:03So, that's your great-great-great-grandfather.
20:08Yeah.
20:08So, this is the 1841 census.
20:14Right.
20:14Adam Robson.
20:15Mm-hmm.
20:16Is five years old here.
20:17That's right, yeah.
20:18You see at the top here where they were living.
20:21So, this is Breck and Ray and it's just outside Dumfries.
20:24It's a small, just a small group of houses, really.
20:27I've got a transcription for you.
20:29Elizabeth McMurdo.
20:31Mm.
20:32Who's that?
20:33Is that like a lodger?
20:34Oh, it wasn't a lodger.
20:36She was ten months old.
20:39Unless she was incredibly independent.
20:42Yes.
20:43So, we've got Anne Hope, 55.
20:45Isabella Hope, 26.
20:47Adam Robson, 5.
20:49And Elizabeth McMurdo.
20:51Hang on.
20:51Isabella Hope?
20:53Why Hope?
20:54Adam Robson?
20:55Was he adopted or something?
20:57Well, let me show you the next document.
20:59Mm.
20:59And it'll shine some light on us.
21:01So, again, do you see here, maybe looking in the margin,
21:08any names that are familiar?
21:10Does that say Robson?
21:11Mm-hm, that's right.
21:13And do you see the name?
21:14Hope.
21:15Hope?
21:15Yeah.
21:16That's right.
21:17Isabella Hope was your great-great-great-great-grandmother.
21:22And it's a V.
21:23It's Hope versus Robson.
21:25Oh.
21:26What is this document, then?
21:28This is a court case.
21:29Uh-oh.
21:30Uh-oh.
21:34Oh.
21:36Again, with a transcription.
21:37OK.
21:37That'd be helpful.
21:38That'd be helpful.
21:40At Dunfrees, 13th of November, 1838,
21:44in an action before the Sheriff Court of the said county
21:46at the instance of Isabella Hope,
21:49residing at...
21:50Breckenray?
21:51Mm-hm.
21:51Pursuer against Robert Robson, residing at Duncow Defender.
21:59I don't understand any of that.
22:01She is taking Robert Robson to court.
22:04To make payment to the said Isabella Hope,
22:07in name of inlying expenses attending the birth of an illegitimate male child.
22:12Why was there a court case?
22:16So it all came down to the fact that Isabella had had the child,
22:23and the father of that child was responsible to help support that child.
22:28And he wasn't...
22:29And he wasn't doing that.
22:30So we don't know if she won this case.
22:32She did.
22:33She did win it?
22:33She did.
22:34She won it.
22:34Yeah.
22:35But we still don't know who Elizabeth McMurdo is.
22:38So here is another document.
22:42Isabella Hope.
22:43That's right.
22:43Read that.
22:44John McMurdo.
22:45Yeah.
22:47Don't make out anything else.
22:49So this is another Sheriff Court record.
22:51Right.
22:52Where Isabella again took the father of her child to court
22:57to get aliment for her child.
23:01Yeah.
23:03Two.
23:03Two.
23:03Inlegitimate children.
23:04Yeah.
23:08It's getting to be a high bit, isn't it?
23:10And she won this case as well.
23:12Did she?
23:13Yeah.
23:13Yeah.
23:13Yeah.
23:15It was not uncommon in 1840s rural Scotland
23:19for women like Diane's four times great-grandmother Isabella
23:23to have illegitimate children.
23:26But very few mothers took up their right to go to court
23:29to try and make fathers recognise their children
23:32and provide financial support.
23:34It was rarer still for a woman to take more than one man to court.
23:41She must have been quite confident then
23:43to be able to go through with all that,
23:45especially, you know, other women at the time,
23:47I can see them being quite, you know,
23:49put off by having to go to court.
23:51And the shame of it as well, I suppose, to a certain degree.
23:53To a certain degree, yeah, that could also have been off-putting.
23:56And, of course, she's done it twice.
23:59And won twice.
24:00Yeah.
24:01We're moving forward a little bit in time.
24:03This is a baptism register from the church.
24:06Right.
24:07OK.
24:10Isabella Hope.
24:11Mm-hm.
24:12Again.
24:14Jemima.
24:15That's right.
24:15Mm-hm.
24:16Jemima Ferguson.
24:17Mm-hm.
24:19Natural daughter of James Ferguson.
24:22Jemima Ferguson has been born,
24:25and do you see it described as...
24:27Natural.
24:28Natural daughter.
24:28Mm-hm.
24:29That's a kind of polite way of saying...
24:31Not illegitimate.
24:32..that they weren't married.
24:34Oh!
24:35Oh!
24:36Oh, my God.
24:41Did she take him to court?
24:43Yep.
24:44Yeah?
24:44Did she win?
24:46Yes.
24:47So this is the third illegitimate child.
24:50Mm-hm.
24:51It's like a career for her.
24:53I can't believe this.
24:56This is a small village just outside Dumfries.
25:01Everybody would have known each other.
25:04Yeah.
25:05And have been...
25:06The curtains would have been twitchy.
25:08Uh-huh.
25:08People would have talked.
25:10Uh-huh.
25:11Must have been quite difficult for her.
25:13It could have been, yeah.
25:14Yeah.
25:15So we've got three children.
25:18Yep.
25:19And now we're going to move forward in a little bit.
25:20Not a fourth.
25:21I've got another document.
25:22Oh, no.
25:25Isabella Hope...
25:26Oh, no, this is not a lot.
25:27Isabella Hope against George Rome Jr.
25:37That's right.
25:38And she took him to court?
25:39She took him to court, yeah.
25:40Did she win?
25:43She did.
25:45But not quite as easily.
25:46He fought the case.
25:47She became pregnant of male, twin, illegitimate children,
25:55of which the said George Rome is the father.
25:59So twins.
26:01Mm-hmm.
26:01The pursuer has had four or five illegitimate children
26:05within her last eight to ten years.
26:10Young men were apt to jest each other
26:13about a young woman who they'd met at a merry meeting
26:17and who, from her being the mother
26:19of several illegitimate children,
26:21was known and much talked of as an improper character.
26:25Oh, no.
26:29Dirty bogger.
26:31I don't know what to make of her, really.
26:33I don't know whether to be ashamed or proud.
26:37She certainly tried to make sure that her children were cared for.
26:40Yeah, were cared for, yeah, and they had security.
26:42So I suppose you have to give her that.
26:45And she wasn't intimidated either.
26:47And these records really reveal an aspect of women's history
26:51in Scotland, which is really fascinating.
26:54And it is perhaps unexpected that women had this ability
26:58to be able to do this, to be able to go to court
27:00and to pursue the father of their children.
27:08Diane has discovered that her four-times-great-grandmother,
27:11Isabella, Isabella, had five children with four different men,
27:14and one of these was her three-times-great-grandfather,
27:18Adam Robson.
27:23Records show Isabella and her family lived in a place called Brecon Ray,
27:27just outside Dumfries.
27:29And Diane, I know this is a bit weird,
27:42but I think my family might have lived in this house once upon a time.
27:47Really?
27:47It's a beautiful old house.
27:49It's beautiful, yeah.
27:49It's obviously got a lot of history.
27:51It's huge as well.
27:52I think it was several dwellings at one point when it was all...
27:55Right, oh.
27:55Yeah.
27:56So maybe they were all cramped into one room on this premises?
28:00Absolutely, yeah.
28:01You can actually still see some kind of remnants of what it used to be.
28:04There are still...
28:05Yeah, really?
28:06Kind of like...
28:07And on the wall there, you can kind of see a scar of where a door used to be.
28:10Oh, really?
28:11Can I go and I have a look?
28:13Oh, yeah!
28:14So it was split up into four properties or something, was it?
28:18Well, I think either three or four.
28:19Yeah.
28:19I think he wants me to throw the stick.
28:22He does.
28:22He'll do that all day.
28:25I'm not very good at throwing.
28:27That's good enough.
28:28If I get the house, I'll just do this all day.
28:31Okay, okay.
28:32So when do you think this house was built?
28:34So when we bought the property, we were told that it was built in the late 1700s,
28:38although exact year, we're unsure.
28:40Right.
28:41We think the house gets its name from the burn that runs past it.
28:45Oh, is that what it is?
28:46Yeah.
28:46So the burn that runs, it's the border for the property, is called Brecon Ray Burn.
28:52Right, yeah.
28:54You know who this is, don't you?
28:55Philomena Kong.
28:58Absolutely.
28:59So it's a blank.
29:00Is that who?
29:00Well, you're actually more my kind of sense of humour than probably Katie's.
29:04So, yeah.
29:05I can see why you got this place.
29:10Oh, it's lovely.
29:16Diane is walking from the family home to the parish church,
29:20which would have been the centre of village life in the 1840s,
29:23when Diane's four times great-grandmother was living there.
29:26So this is where Isabella will have come, and all her family came here.
29:34It's a great church.
29:37Very big headstones.
29:43Thought you were going to tell me I was related to Robert the Bruce,
29:46or Robbie Burns, one of the Roberts.
29:49But instead, my great-great-great-great-grandmother is a bit of a hossie.
29:57But then, you know, let's give her the benefit of the doubt.
29:59Maybe she was just...
30:01She just couldn't find the right mother.
30:07And, you know, there wasn't much to do around here, was there?
30:10She got some security for her kids, I suppose.
30:17A lot of women of the era wouldn't have done that, would they?
30:20They wouldn't have had the gumption.
30:22And she did, so...
30:25Good for her.
30:28It always brings people to life, doesn't it?
30:31When you hear more about their story and where they lived,
30:34you see where they lived.
30:36They've become more than just a name.
30:38And I would like to try and find out more about her.
30:51To see if there is any information about Isabella's life
30:54after she had her children, Diane is back in Dumfries.
30:58She's meeting the City Museum curator, Judith Hewitt,
31:02at St Michael's Graveyard.
31:04I learnt that my great-great-great-great-grandmother,
31:08Isabella, had five illegitimate children
31:13from four different men.
31:17Took them all to court.
31:19She got a bit of a name for herself as well, I think.
31:23Well, it's that sort of woman that survives
31:24in the historical records.
31:26Right, OK, yes, I did that.
31:27We should be grateful that she did that.
31:29And she made her name and just leave some mark behind.
31:32Yeah, she's left some stories.
31:34Exactly, exactly.
31:35And we do have some other information about her.
31:37Do you?
31:37Yeah, so you were in the countryside yesterday.
31:40Yeah.
31:41And now we're in the town of Dumfries.
31:43I thought you might be interested to see this.
31:45It's part of one of Isabella's court documents from 1845
31:49relating to her illegitimate children.
31:53Oh, there we are.
31:54Yeah.
31:54Isabella.
31:55So there she is, Isabella Hope.
31:57Isabella is residing in St. Michael,
32:01St. Michael's Street of Dumfries.
32:04Mm-hm.
32:05And she was working at this point as in service,
32:08so she'd become a servant.
32:09Yeah.
32:10So we are here.
32:12Yeah.
32:12In St. Michael's Church.
32:14Yeah.
32:14And here we can see St. Michael's Street.
32:17Yeah.
32:18And this is where she lived.
32:19Yeah, this is where she lived.
32:20And you can see the river is just here
32:22where she would have gone down to get water.
32:26And that's the high street's just there.
32:28And in 1848, Isabella would have been here for a few years.
32:33And there's a case of cholera, death from cholera on the high street,
32:37which is minutes from where Isabella would have lived
32:39and she would have known the town.
32:41I think the town would have been alive
32:43with the news of the cholera and alert to it.
32:47Just 14 years earlier, in 1832,
32:50cholera had struck Dumfries, killing over 400 people.
32:55So news of another cholera outbreak in 1848 provoked panic.
33:00People still had no idea what caused it
33:02and blamed loose morals and even the weather.
33:06It would be another six years
33:08before cholera was discovered to be a bacterial disease
33:11spread through contaminated water.
33:14As a servant, Isabella was highly vulnerable,
33:17working constantly with water
33:19and drawing it from the river
33:20where the town's sewage was thrown.
33:23This is a record of burials.
33:26Usually you'd have each burial listed in the cause of death,
33:29but it's just under the head in cholera.
33:31So all these people were victims of cholera.
33:35Wow.
33:37Oh, there she is.
33:38Mm-hmm.
33:39Isabella Hope.
33:40Mm-hmm.
33:40Yeah, so she died in December of 1848.
33:4530?
33:46Yeah, just 30.
33:48And how many kids did she have then?
33:50So she...
33:50I presume they survived.
33:52Yes, the children had remained in the countryside,
33:54I think, with her mother.
33:55Yeah, I suppose it would have been better
33:57if she'd have stayed in the country.
33:58Mm-hmm.
33:59And I wonder if that occurred to her,
34:00whether she thought,
34:01oh, well, I suppose she had to come here for work, though,
34:03so she didn't really have a chance.
34:07Sadly, yeah, she died at the tragically young age of 30
34:10and is buried in this graveyard.
34:14Is she?
34:19So we've got a very clear place of burial
34:21for the 1832 victims,
34:24but the 1848 victims, it's not as clear in the record.
34:27We think it's around about here.
34:30Yeah, we know they were burying dozens of people a day.
34:33Yeah.
34:34But there is no memorial stone for that outbreak.
34:39It makes me want to go out and get a stone for her.
34:41Put it up.
34:42Well, not just for her, for all of them,
34:44because, you know, I think they should have something.
34:47Mm.
34:49So this is a bit of a macabre question,
34:51but I sort of wonder,
34:52would she have been in a coffin in the ground
34:54or would she have just been sort of...
34:57Mm.
34:57If people couldn't afford coffins,
35:00they might be buried in a mortcloth,
35:02which is a piece of material that the parish owned,
35:05that they would be placed into the grave,
35:07wrapped in something which would later be retrieved.
35:11So it would...
35:11Well, then they'd wrap them up, put them in the thing.
35:13They'd have the kind of, like, service.
35:17Yeah.
35:17And then the family would go and they'd unwrap them.
35:19Yeah, they'd...
35:20Well, given her status and her finances,
35:23it's quite likely that she would have had
35:25that sort of poor person's burial.
35:27Reused.
35:28Mm.
35:28Deathcloth.
35:29Yes.
35:33Before she leaves the graveyard,
35:36Diane is meeting local photographer Graham Robertson,
35:39who has a surprise for her.
35:41Hello.
35:42Hello.
35:42I'm Diane.
35:43Nice to meet you.
35:44How are you?
35:44Nice to meet you, too.
35:46What's this?
35:47This is a piece of work
35:49that I'm working on at the moment,
35:51but I wonder if you knew any of the names on this list.
35:55Oh, let's see.
35:56Which we have here, if you want a closer look.
35:59Where is she?
36:01OK, Hope.
36:03Hope!
36:03Isabella Hope.
36:04Isabella Hope.
36:05There she is.
36:06That's her.
36:07Oh, slap bang in the middle.
36:08Right there.
36:09Oh, I'm so pleased that you've done this.
36:12My husband's involved in the church
36:15and I'd always ask him,
36:16you know, there's a memorial for the 1832 epidemic,
36:19but there's nothing for the 1848 epidemic.
36:21Yeah.
36:22You know, surely these people must be remembered as well.
36:25So when did you actually start working on this?
36:28About two years ago,
36:30I started pulling together the data.
36:32Yeah.
36:33From the records.
36:34I think it's wonderful.
36:35Yeah.
36:36So what are you going to do?
36:37You're going to...
36:38The idea is to put this onto copper plate
36:40so that the copper, through the years,
36:43will start to build up a nice patina.
36:45Yeah.
36:45And hopefully what people will do
36:47if they come and find their family members,
36:49they'll put their finger onto the name.
36:51Yeah.
36:52And then over the years,
36:53the oil from the fingers will start to recolour the copper.
36:57So you'll have almost a track of who's been rubbed.
37:01Amazing.
37:02If you pardon the expression, you know.
37:03So where will it be?
37:05It'll be inside the church.
37:06Yeah.
37:07So once we've got it finalised,
37:08we'll have it in there.
37:09When will it be ready?
37:10I'm desperate to see.
37:11Hopefully within the next year it should be.
37:13Really?
37:14You'll have to come back.
37:14I'll definitely come back.
37:16Yeah.
37:16Well, I thought I was going to go away from here.
37:22Really sad that my great-great-great-great-grandmother,
37:25Isabella, doesn't have a gravestone.
37:27So, I mean, to see that, what Graham's made,
37:32I think that's lovely.
37:33It's sort of given me peace.
37:35You know, that, that, just that her name's there
37:40and, you know, people all see it.
37:43It's sad that she had such a short life.
37:48But she packed a lot in.
37:54Now that Diane has learnt about the Scottish side of her family,
37:57she wants to explore the family story of German ancestry.
38:00She's back at her hotel in Dumfries to consult her online tree.
38:07I would always say to my dad,
38:08all our family are from England and Wales, aren't there?
38:10Bit of Scotland.
38:12There's no-one else.
38:13And he'd say, no, apart from German Charlie.
38:17And we'd all laugh, thinking, oh, he's making a joke
38:21about the German guy.
38:24And, er, and then when I was doing my tree,
38:29this is after my dad had died,
38:30I suddenly found Charles Fennett, Germany.
38:35And I thought, oh, my God, it's German Charlie.
38:38He was absolutely right.
38:40There is a German Charlie.
38:42And he's my great-great-great-grandfather.
38:46So I think he was born in Germany and died in Lancashire.
38:50So I'm just going to click on his wife, Elizabeth Nicholson.
38:55So she was born in Lancashire.
38:57And they had one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine children.
39:05One was born in Germany, it says.
39:08Anna Maria Nicholson, born 15th of September, 1860,
39:12in Mönchengladbach, in Germany.
39:16Mother Elizabeth Nicholson.
39:21So it appears that Elizabeth went to a place called Mönchengladbach.
39:24So I'd like to find out what she's doing over there in the 1860s.
39:32Diane knows from her family tree
39:34that her great-great-great-grandparents were Charles Fennett,
39:39known as German Charlie,
39:41born in Prussia, in what is now Germany,
39:43and Elizabeth Nicholson, who was born in Manchester.
39:49Diane has found a record that places Elizabeth
39:51in a city called Mönchengladbach, in the west of Germany, in 1860,
39:56having a baby called Anna.
40:00Well, my first impressions of Mönchengladbach
40:03are that it's sort of like a German version of Bolton.
40:08Why would someone come here from England?
40:10I've got absolutely no idea.
40:13There must have been something here.
40:14Work.
40:16There must have been some sort of draw.
40:17Diane is meeting local guide, Corinna Grieven.
40:23My great-great-great-grandfather, Charles Fennett,
40:26his wife, Elizabeth,
40:28had their child here in Mönchengladbach,
40:31and I've no idea why.
40:32Well, I could show you...
40:34OK.
40:34..a document.
40:36It is written in German.
40:37Sterbe-Urkunde, and sterbe to die.
40:42Something about...
40:43Oh, it's a death certificate.
40:44Yes.
40:45And then try to read a little more.
40:47Try to read a little more in German.
40:49Yes.
40:50Oh, there, Elizabeth Nicholson.
40:52Yes, here you found it.
40:53Your three times great-grandmother.
40:56Shall we look at the English translation?
40:58Yeah, let's look at the English translation.
41:00So that it's a little easier.
41:01Yeah.
41:01OK.
41:02So, here you go.
41:03On December 14th of the year 1861, at 11 p.m., died Anna Nicholson.
41:11Anna Nicholson died.
41:13One and a quarter years old,
41:15the daughter of the factory worker Elizabeth Nicholson.
41:18Yes.
41:18Unmarried.
41:19Elizabeth is unmarried.
41:21Oh.
41:22And having a child, and the child died.
41:26What's going on?
41:27What's going on?
41:29That's what I'm asking you.
41:30I don't know, I'm asking you.
41:32See, I thought she was married to someone called Charles, who she's left back in England.
41:40I think she's already with Charles in England, comes here for the work, and gets pregnant
41:47by another man.
41:49Or she just hasn't met Charles yet.
41:51If you look close, Joseph Nicholson, 42 years old, who stated that he was a grandfather of
41:59the deceased.
42:00Oh, right.
42:01So, Joseph is Elizabeth's father.
42:03My great-great-great-grandfather.
42:05Yes.
42:06Here you go.
42:07She came with her father.
42:08She came with her father, and maybe even with family.
42:11Look at this here.
42:15This is the 1851 census from Manchester.
42:19Okay.
42:19And who do you find here?
42:22Elizabeth.
42:24And Joseph Nicholson.
42:26Yes.
42:26So it's a mechanic.
42:28Yes.
42:29He is a mechanic.
42:30In 1851, Diane's three-times-great-grandmother, Elizabeth, aged nine, was living in Manchester.
42:39But by 1861, Elizabeth and the family had moved to Munchengladbach.
42:45It was fast becoming one of the major textile centres in Germany, providing work opportunities
42:50for mechanics like her father, Joseph, and for Elizabeth, who became a factory worker.
42:56It must have been incredible for her to just be sort of uprooted at that age.
43:02Yes.
43:02Not being able to speak German.
43:04Yes.
43:05And just, this is where we're going.
43:07Yes.
43:07Er, you just took the family.
43:09To Munchengladbach.
43:10Mm.
43:14I know that my three-times-great-grandmother was dragged here, kicking and screaming, probably,
43:21by her dad, Joseph.
43:23But what I don't understand is why you'd leave an industrial town in the north of England
43:28for an industrial town in Germany.
43:31It could be that there was no work, but maybe it was something else.
43:36Diane has come to the Textile Technicum Museum to talk to Professor Dr. Ulrich Feaster.
43:42So, would my Vortain's great-grandfather have got more money by coming here than he would
43:50have got in the north of England in the same sort of factory?
43:53Certainly, yes.
43:54Joseph Nicholson earned a very high wage here in Munchengladbach because he was very skilled
44:03at specialised knowledge on how cutting-edge technology in cotton spinning worked.
44:11Because he'd done that in the north of England beforehand, so he knew.
44:14Yes, until the 1850s, they produced cotton yarn with very simple technology, here in Munchengladbach.
44:25Yeah.
44:25And Britain was a technological leader.
44:29When manufacturers began to buy British technology, it was important to hire specialists because
44:36there were no manuals that described the construction of machines and the ways they worked.
44:43So, instead of buying a manual, you could buy a person?
44:46Exactly.
44:47Get them to do it?
44:48Exactly.
44:49The Industrial Revolution began in Britain in the late 1700s, but arrived in Germany and
44:56the rest of Europe some decades later.
44:59When Britain lifted a ban in 1843 on the export of its machinery, industrialists from Munchengladbach
45:06flocked to places like Lancashire to buy its advanced technology and headhunt its specialist
45:12workers, like Diane's four-time great-grandfather, Joseph.
45:17Joseph Nicholson was not alone there.
45:19There was a wave of British specialists, mechanics, engineers, Manchester men like Joseph Nicholson,
45:29other people from Lancashire.
45:32Did this produce a nickname, Munchengladbach, as a sort of little Manchester, the Manchester
45:37of the Rhineland?
45:39Really?
45:40Because when I first arrived, I said that Munchengladbach was like a German version of Bolton.
45:49I've learned that apparently Lancashire was leading the way in the Industrial Revolution.
45:54And according to a man who looked like Larry Davies, the Germans didn't know anything about
45:59how to work machines.
46:02But basically, I'm in Munchengladbach and I'm still not quite sure who I am.
46:15Diane is on her way to Hagen, about 60 miles east of Munchengladbach, where guide Corinna
46:21has arranged to meet up with her again.
46:23This is the obligatory train shot, isn't it?
46:29I was looking at my tree last night and I noticed that Charlie, German Charlie, lived to 63
46:36and his wife, Elizabeth, lived to 91.
46:44And that's quite unusual for the time, isn't it?
46:46Especially as she had such a hard life in a factory.
46:50I had an illegitimate child that died and at 91, I wonder what she was doing.
46:56Pad liver oil?
46:57I don't want to depress everyone.
47:02But I just feel like, you know, looking into all these lives, one after the other, just
47:07makes you realise how sort of fleeting we were all here.
47:10That's very depressing, isn't it?
47:12I'm sorry.
47:13But it just made me feel like, oh, you know, what's the point?
47:17So I'm on my way to Hagen to meet Corinna again, the guide that I spoke to yesterday, because
47:27apparently she's got some new information.
47:31Hopefully it's about German Charlie, who still hasn't turned up yet.
47:36Hagen, help back here.
47:38You've got a loud attack, it's right, on line 4th.
47:42I can't help you.
47:43I think we've found German Charlie.
47:47I think we've found German Charlie.
48:04Let's go!
48:13Diane is meeting Corinna at the former Elber's Textile Mill.
48:23Nice seeing you again.
48:24Nice to see you again.
48:26You arrived here in Hagen.
48:29Yes.
48:29At the railway station.
48:30That's right.
48:31Yes, I did.
48:31So, and you, maybe, you could have the same impression that Elizabeth had, coming here in 1865.
48:41You think there was a man playing an accordion when she arrived?
48:44Maybe.
48:45Have you seen the chimney?
48:47I've seen the chimney, yes.
48:49Yes, this mill was built in 1861, she came in 1865, so it was four years, and it was brand new, and it is, at that time, the highest chimney in Germany.
49:04So, she is on a hot spot.
49:05And they were desperately looking for persons, for women, to work, because they need experienced workers.
49:15Yes, but where's Charlie?
49:17Where's Charlie?
49:18We have to check.
49:18First of all, this record, what I have here, and I'm going to show you now, is from 1865.
49:25I can't read any of this.
49:27And I got also a transcription.
49:31Born and baptised in the year 1865, Marie.
49:35Okay.
49:3618th of February.
49:37Who's Marie?
49:37Is that her daughter?
49:39So, who is it?
49:39Legitimate.
49:40Yes, here you go.
49:42So, Marie must be my great-great-grandmother.
49:49Yes.
49:50Name and surname of her father, Anton Fennett.
49:54I knew he was going to be a weaver.
49:55He is a weaver, yes.
49:57Maybe they met at the factory.
49:59Yes.
49:59Looking at each other, while working, getting a laugh.
50:04Yeah.
50:04Maybe.
50:05Nice.
50:05Passes the time, doesn't it?
50:07Yes.
50:08But Anton is written here.
50:09Yeah.
50:10And you know Charlie.
50:11Yeah.
50:12So, let's see what we can find out more.
50:15I have another one for you.
50:17This is the birth record from 1825.
50:20And here you see.
50:22Carl Anton Fennett.
50:23Yes.
50:23And here we go.
50:24Finally.
50:26Finally.
50:26It's German Charlie.
50:27My great-great-great-grandfather.
50:30Yes.
50:30When he went to England, maybe he decide, now it's the time, I'm going to be Charles.
50:35Yeah.
50:36But why would they go back to England if they can't have been happy here?
50:41I think it was at around 1870.
50:47By 1870, the textile mills of Germany were heavily mechanised and no longer needed so many workers,
50:54like Diane's three times great-grandparents Elizabeth and Charlie.
50:58Wages were forced down, meaning that the couple could now earn more back in Lancashire than in Germany.
51:04I mean, he must have loved her because he's followed her back to England.
51:09Yes.
51:10Maybe there's a bigger chimney in Lancashire.
51:12Maybe.
51:13Maybe.
51:13They had lots of kids.
51:17I think they had about ten kids.
51:19So they had some sort of happy life together.
51:21Turns out there's a lot of cotton mills in my past, not just in Lancashire, but in Germany too.
51:30So that was a revelation.
51:36Diane's back in England, in Farnworth, the town where her great-great-aunt Ginny and fiancée Albert Dugdale lived.
51:44Ginny never married after Albert was killed in the First World War.
51:47There's one last thing Diane wants to do, return Albert's death penny to his family.
51:54Well, it's quite an exciting day, actually, because after all these years of wondering if Albert Dugdale even had any living relatives,
52:05the genealogist has found a Dugdale relative.
52:09I'm presuming it's a sort of a great-great-great-nephew or something like that.
52:15So I'm off to meet them at the Farnworth War Memorial.
52:24There he is!
52:25Oh, there's two Dugdales!
52:30It's quite exciting!
52:35Just don't know what to expect.
52:41Hello!
52:42Hello, Diane!
52:43Nice to meet you!
52:44And you!
52:45So you're a Dugdale!
52:46I am a Dugdale!
52:47Nice to meet you!
52:48Through and through!
52:49Thank you for coming!
52:50No problem!
52:51You must wonder what the hell's going on!
52:52I am!
52:53What's your name?
52:54John.
52:54John Dugdale.
52:55And so, what was Albert Dugdale to you?
52:59My uncle.
53:00He was your uncle?
53:01Yeah.
53:02So, what was the connection with you then?
53:04My great-great-aunt, Sarah Jane Morgan.
53:09Sarah Jane Morgan, yeah.
53:10Otherwise known as Ginny, was going to marry Albert Dugdale.
53:14Yeah.
53:14So we've always talked about him and what might have been in our family.
53:18Yeah, quite.
53:19Shall we go and sit down over there?
53:21Okay.
53:22Yeah.
53:22This is Ginny.
53:26I imagine she was about 12 there, maybe?
53:29Yeah, yeah.
53:30And this is Ginny as an older lady working in the mill.
53:34I think Albert worked in the mill too.
53:36Yeah, they worked in the same factory.
53:38Did they?
53:38Before he went off to war, yeah.
53:40Right.
53:40I got this photo out of a newspaper that was the roll call of the dead.
53:46It was the first picture I'd seen of him.
53:48Amazing.
53:49Yeah.
53:50Ginny and Albert lived in the next street to each other in Farnworth.
53:55Is that Lark Street?
53:56Lark Street, yeah.
53:57Lark Street, yeah.
53:58The famous Lark Street.
53:59Yeah.
53:59I sort of think of these two quite fondly, you know,
54:02because people have talked about them my whole life.
54:05Yeah.
54:05And what a lovely lady that she was.
54:08So I just think what a different life they would have led if he'd come back.
54:10I know, she'd have been my auntie.
54:12We'd have been related.
54:13We would.
54:15We would have been.
54:16Yeah.
54:17You'll see my pictures.
54:17I'd love to, yes.
54:19That's Albert's parents.
54:21They would have come across to Ginny to give the news that he'd died.
54:27Probably.
54:28Probably would have done, yeah.
54:29Would have done.
54:29And that's his mother by his grave.
54:31Oh.
54:32Oh, that's so sad.
54:34She must have gone across to France to see it.
54:36So it's across there, isn't it?
54:37So later they must have...
54:38They did the headstone.
54:39Yeah.
54:40That's when I went to see his grave.
54:43Oh, yeah, gone to Dugdale.
54:45Must have been quite moving.
54:46It was, actually.
54:47Yeah.
54:47I just think it's important not to forget them.
54:49I do.
54:49I do.
54:51Even though I never knew him.
54:52Mm.
54:53Neither of us met Albert Dugdale,
54:55but the stories of him have gone down through both our families.
55:00I know.
55:00He's become a legend, doesn't he?
55:03So I've got one more thing I want to show to you.
55:06OK, yes.
55:08And it's this.
55:09This has been in our family for 100 years.
55:14Oh, really?
55:15Yeah.
55:17Do you know what this is?
55:18That's amazing.
55:25They called it a death penny,
55:26and I assume that Albert's parents gave this to Ginny.
55:32Right.
55:33And she, before she died, gave it to my brother.
55:37But now we'd like you to have it.
55:40Not really, Diane.
55:41Yeah, no, I would.
55:43I'd like it to go back to the Dugdales.
55:44We discussed it, and we said...
55:46Are you sure?
55:46Wouldn't it be great if we could find a relative
55:49that we'd like to give it back to yourself?
55:51That is absolutely amazing.
55:53It's great, isn't it?
55:54I don't feel I should accept this, really.
55:55Do you want me to hold those while you have an inspector?
55:58I think it's what Ginny would have wanted.
56:02And now it's gone back to your family.
56:06I'm not sure I should accept this, really.
56:08Oh, no, you should.
56:09You should, definitely, because we've done
56:11a whole TV programme about it now.
56:16I'm very... Thank you very much.
56:18Oh, you're very welcome.
56:19Thank you very much. Thank you.
56:21That's very, very special.
56:28I was really pleased with how that went.
56:31It was really lovely to finally meet a Dugdale.
56:34Quite exciting.
56:35And I think it's gone to the right place now, you know,
56:42and I hope that Ginny's pleased with what I've decided to do.
56:49I think my fear was that we'd find a relative,
56:51but they just weren't that interested
56:53or hadn't heard about the story,
56:56so, yeah, it was great.
56:58Really pleased.
57:00Ah, give us a hug.
57:02It's lovely to meet you.
57:03And you, Dan.
57:05Stay in touch.
57:10There's been a lot of cotton mills.
57:13I expected that.
57:14A lot of illegitimate children.
57:16I didn't expect that.
57:18But finding a Dugdale,
57:22you know,
57:23after all these years,
57:26it was sort of like meeting Elvis.
57:28I have a fool.
57:33I'm a fool.
57:36Without you.
57:41I'm so lonely, so lonely, so lonely.
57:48Without you.
57:50I'm as strong as a stone.
57:58I'm as strong as a stone.