- 8 months ago
Ever wondered what it really takes to make a mark in the global art world?
Join us as we go Beyond the Frame with Isa Lorenzo, the brilliant mind behind Silverlens Galleries.
In this episode of Power Talks, Isa pulls back the curtain on the art of the deal, revealing her core strategies and unwavering vision that helped propel Filipino art onto the global stage. Tune in to hear how she’s passionately championing Filipino art, and shaping our future internationally.
Join us as we go Beyond the Frame with Isa Lorenzo, the brilliant mind behind Silverlens Galleries.
In this episode of Power Talks, Isa pulls back the curtain on the art of the deal, revealing her core strategies and unwavering vision that helped propel Filipino art onto the global stage. Tune in to hear how she’s passionately championing Filipino art, and shaping our future internationally.
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00:00She's changing the art world one exhibition at a time.
00:03Meet Isa Lorenzo, the visionary behind Silver Lens Galleries,
00:07who's bringing Asian art to the global stage.
00:11Tonight on Power Talks, we sit down with a gallerist, the artist, the advocate,
00:16who's slowly changing the landscape of global art.
00:20I really wanted to do something in the States,
00:22but I was the wrong color, I was the wrong gender, I was the wrong Asian.
00:26I was the wrong everything.
00:29You gotta make your own career.
00:31It's a very different, there's no structure because of it.
00:34For us, it was as simple as if somebody calls, you answer the phone.
00:39If somebody asks you for something, you answer.
00:42It's kind of a good and bad thing that the government doesn't pay us attention.
00:47You know what I mean?
00:48You have to explain that.
00:49If you could acquire any single piece of art in the world for your personal collection,
00:53no budget restrictions, what would it be?
00:55By a certain artist?
00:57That's a big one.
00:59Gosh, it's a very unorthodox answer.
01:01I would probably buy a collection of...
01:09Thanks for opening your doors to us.
01:11It's such a lovely gallery.
01:12I mean, it's my first time here.
01:13Oh!
01:14And I mean, the first things that struck me were like the high ceiling, the natural light, and it's so pretty.
01:19How long have you been in this particular location?
01:22So we've been here since 2017.
01:24So we are on our eighth year in this location.
01:27Is this your second home?
01:28Because Silver Lens began in 2004.
01:30Yes.
01:31So Silver Lens has been in three spaces.
01:35So the first was an apartment.
01:37A residential apartment.
01:38A residential apartment.
01:39My apartment.
01:40I was living there and I was working there.
01:42And it was, I found, I realized very quickly that that's not a good mix.
01:48So, yeah, moved into a bigger space.
01:51That lasted two years and then we moved here to Paso Tumo Extension down the street in 2007.
02:00And then after 10 years, the landlord wanted to increase the rent by an exponential amount.
02:08So we ended up finding this space, which is not, it's not on the street.
02:14But I think that when people come, there's a very nice reveal to it.
02:17Like it's unexpected that you would find this in this very like industrial street.
02:22Oh, I think that works because that's exactly what I felt coming in here.
02:26It's like, where is the gallery here?
02:28Because it's very nondescript outside.
02:30And then when you get in, ah, okay, I think I know where it is.
02:32Yes, yes.
02:33Okay.
02:34At the time, this space was kind of abandoned.
02:37The previous tenant had left and they hadn't found a tenant in a long time.
02:42So I negotiated so that we could have just a footprint, but use two floors.
02:47So that's, yeah, so we're now on our eighth year here.
02:51So Silver Lens has been around for 20 years, going on 21?
02:56We are 21 years this year.
02:59When Silver Lens first started, were you trying to fill a void?
03:03Is that why you created Silver Lens?
03:05Ah, yes.
03:06Ah, yes.
03:07I was looking for a gallery that would work very closely with artists, um, to represent
03:15artists, bring artists into a partnership with the gallery, representing them, and then
03:19bringing their work out into the world.
03:21And we wanted longer shows, um, bigger spaces, more intense or more, I guess, educational programming.
03:29Um, try and do make, you know, you know, try and go abroad.
03:33Um, and in 2004, the landscape was not there.
03:38And I thought that it would be good if we started it, um, which I think was like, in hindsight,
03:47kind of the worst decision because I didn't know what I was doing.
03:52I have no business, um, credits.
03:55I never went to school for business.
03:57So I think as a business model, it was kind of a poor model.
04:01It wasn't a good business model, but, you know, I learned by doing and you made it work
04:05and in partnership with our artists.
04:08And then, you know, the patrons or the collectors that we cultivated, we all kind of grew up together, you know.
04:15So, um, we're still working with many of the same artists.
04:19We still have many of the same collectors.
04:22So it's like a family too.
04:23Yes, very much relationship-based, super relationship-based.
04:27But when Silver Lens started, because the name is Silver Lens, um, I actually assumed that it was just, you know, photography.
04:34Yes.
04:35We really wanted to push photography as a collected art form in the Philippines and we did not accomplish that.
04:43And I realized that after maybe four shows that, um, business-wise it was not going to work
04:52and we needed to move into the rest of the contemporary arts in order to survive.
04:58So we opened, um, we made our umbrella a little bigger to include, you know,
05:04artists working with contemporary art.
05:06So painting, sculpture, drawing, installation, sound, video, all of that.
05:12Where did your, um, desire to open a gallery come from?
05:17I mean, because your background, your academic background is, um, medicine.
05:21Yes.
05:22You actually have a degree in medicine.
05:23I do, yes.
05:24Yes.
05:25Which isn't what you would expect from somebody who owns an art gallery.
05:29No.
05:30No, no, no, no.
05:31But my, my slow, um, my, my departure from medicine took many years.
05:36Um, I was already deep into med school when I realized I didn't want to do it.
05:42I mean, I didn't want to practice.
05:44So, um, from that point, I, it was another three years before I graduated, uh, did my internship
05:52and took the boards.
05:54But I was, um, I was told by my mother, or asked by my mother, why don't you just finish?
05:59Ask, not told.
06:00Yeah, she said, why don't you just finish it?
06:02Because what are you going to do?
06:04And I said, I don't know.
06:05I'm going to figure it out.
06:06She's like, no, just finish it.
06:07You've already given seven years of your life.
06:10Let's finish it.
06:11Okay.
06:11Uh, and then you can do whatever you want.
06:13Spoken like a true mother.
06:14Yes.
06:15Because she's so afraid that I wouldn't have, that I would be lost.
06:19Um, and sure enough, I thought it was, it was difficult advice because I was already,
06:26parang punong-punong na ko, ayoko na talaga.
06:28But it was the right, it was sound advice.
06:31And I'm glad that I finished it because it gave me a sense of, like, I finished something,
06:38you know, a sense of accomplishment and also a lot of knowledge.
06:43I mean, I, I know a lot and that I can, I may not, um, access the information in my daily
06:49life, but it's definitely crucial information when somebody needs help.
06:53Mm-hmm.
06:53Right.
06:54So, um, yeah.
06:55So the medicine took the boards, uh, passed, left that, worked in different media companies,
07:04um, and then left for the States.
07:07Okay.
07:07Um, that was in 2000.
07:09Were your parents, um, into the arts?
07:11No, my mother's a doctor.
07:14Okay.
07:14My father was an agriculture grad.
07:17Mm-hmm.
07:18Um, your siblings?
07:19My siblings are all business people.
07:23Or, um, yeah, zero.
07:25But do you remember the first piece of art that you ever fell in love with?
07:29Yeah.
07:30What was that?
07:31Um, it was a photograph by Helmut Newton.
07:37He's a German photographer, um, who was doing a lot of fashion, fashion spreads for like Vogue
07:45and all of that, but he had a lot of personal work, which, um, I found super captivating.
07:51Uh, the reason being, they were so produced that I thought, how can a photograph become
07:59so much bigger than, than life, you know?
08:04How old were you?
08:05How old were you at that time?
08:06I was old now, I was, uh, in my 20s.
08:09Ah, so you know how it is, dito sa Pilipinas, kapag sinabi mo sa magulang mo na, paglaki ko, gusto kong maging artist.
08:16You can imagine the, ano, da ba?
08:18If your parents, yeah, if your parents aren't artists to themselves, there's a big pushback.
08:23And lalo na, if you say na, um, I wanna be a curator, or I wanna work in a gallery, parang, lalong may pushback yun.
08:31But, I'm thinking now, um, you know, the younger generation can say, but look at Isa Lorenzo.
08:36you can you're kind of the case in point we can make a career out of this i mean
08:42you got to make your own career it's a very different there's no structure because there's
08:47no structure we the reason why silver lens has reached some kind of success is because we built
08:54the structure for it and we set the ground rules for this the structure and the the relationships
09:01that we have um but there's you know i don't think anyone in the art world at least my age
09:09um entered the art or entered university or entered college thinking oh i want to work in the arts
09:15because back then it's different now now you can make a lot of money as an artist in the world or
09:26in the philippines what i'm very proud of is that our artists are all financially stable you know
09:34they have their own homes a few of them more than a few of them have built have bought property and
09:39built or their own studios so it's a whole ecosystem that is not just show to show because back then in
09:482004 gallery will have a show of an artist and then stop now but with us the show is again like i was
09:55telling you it's really just a starting point because once that artwork is born into the world
10:00okay our job is to find opportunities for it right so for example if you were um i don't know if you're
10:07a musician or let's say i don't know you're on a singer we will not just produce your concert but
10:14we're gonna find you the record deals we're gonna find you the other gigs around the world we're gonna
10:20find you the people to collaborate with we're gonna find you so it's a whole ecosystem yeah you said
10:25earlier that you really had to lay the groundwork structure and put the system in place yes um and
10:31it seems to have really worked because you had said before that um you used to feel invisible but
10:37now you no longer do yes and you've paved the way for others to you know follow in your footsteps
10:43uh i hope so i mean in 2004 when i left new york and came back here i really wanted to do something in
10:49the states but i was the wrong color i was the wrong gender i was the wrong asian i was wrong
10:58everything because back then the asians that were in the states were mostly japanese
11:03okay japanese and chinese sort of north asian northeast asian um and nobody knew where
11:11nobody knew anything about southeast asia it was just we're just completely invisible so but i noticed
11:18you also have a lot of um very established artists already i mean we have the work of pasita abad behind
11:24us so it's a mix it's really a mix yes but like pasita abad when we started working with pasita abad
11:30like we were the first gallery to sort of bring her back into circulation i did not take that into
11:35consideration because her work is here now and she's already pasita abad yes so a lot of these artists
11:41like i said we've been working with them a long time and for a number of them we have been with them
11:46since the beginning so we actually grew their practice or their career how do you select or curate um
11:57the work that you that you bring to the gallery so a lot of um it's it's really all relationships most of
12:04the artists we find um are recommended by our already existing artists and the ones that we find on
12:12our own we usually you know we see their works in um in other shows or even in school exhibitions
12:20university exhibitions or in bienales trienales sometimes we see their work on the internet sometimes
12:25you see their work uh you know in the houses of friends and um we are usually we are quite a slow
12:34burn we're not fast so um what does that mean you know it's like we might see we might have seen
12:40something in 2009 and then you know we find the artist we found the artist in 2012 started talking to
12:47the artist and then only started working with them in 2023 did you ever showcase your own work at the
12:53gallery exhibit your work uh you know in the beginning that was a plan and it maybe happened once
13:00but uh running the gallery is so it's such a different brain from making art that it sort of just got
13:10pushed into um yeah i don't make work anymore i feel like my work is the gallery like the running of the
13:19gallery and the programming and sort of this finding the opportunities and and making the most of
13:25whatever is whatever comes our way i think a lot of people um don't take that into consideration or
13:31they forget that there's actually a business side oh yeah the creative industry of course so um how
13:37important was that in making sure or ensuring the success of the gallery well survival i think uh
13:44uh i think that every creative in enterprise needs needs to be run with practical concerns um
13:55and the bigger the ambition the more practical you need to be in order to survive and in order to
14:02to sustain your practice um there was no business course in art school i really learned by doing
14:10uh i learned by asking people for help um i we have many mentors from around the world who have
14:18sort of shown us different ways of working for us business is like relationships plus best practices
14:27you know and nurturing both so we treat our collectors the way we want to be treated we treat our artists
14:36the way we want to we want to be treated if we were artists and it's it's that sort of been the north
14:43star of our business plan um i think that for us it was as simple as if somebody calls you answer the
14:53phone if somebody asks you for something you answer you know if you say i'm going to call you at noon
14:58you call them at noon you know so it's this sort of these very like mundane rules i think that really
15:08established the core of our business you you got to show up because people think that for you to be
15:17um uh into the arts you have to have a lot of money or you know very uh it's a very there's a
15:23there's a perception that is very high brown yes so but now um do you see that art is for everyone
15:29here in the philippines i believe so i believe so i mean we get hundreds and hundreds of people who
15:36come here and they never buy anything but they come here regularly because they appreciate families yeah
15:42and it's free yes you know they don't need to pay for it uh may aircon i don't know i mean just like
15:48and so they come here and and they and we see them it's it's pretty consistent so a lot of young
15:53people also coming to the galleries i think that's a big that's a big help and probably because of
15:58social media yes like social media and then the art fair philippines you know like maybe in the
16:04beginning maybe 2004 we would get i would say six people a week now we get maybe 200 in a week wow
16:15i was going to ask you how you would describe the art industry here in the philippines compared to
16:22um other countries because you worked in new york and um would you say that is there enough
16:28government support government funding is there enough appreciation uh among in the community
16:34that's a very good question pia um it's different uh it's not better or worse i think they're just
16:42different we're just different um here in the philippines we have a very very strong local market
16:48very strong local audience lots of artists lots of galleries it's very vibrant it's very organic it's
16:55ground up in the well my my point of comparison because we had a gallery in singapore uh from 2012
17:04to 2015 singapore is a very different ecosystem singapore is very top down um there's tons of government
17:11funding which everyone applies for and usually you are given the the grants um here we have no such
17:20thing we don't have um we don't have a lot of government support a lot of the art making is really
17:27private privately funded or private sector driven or even university driven you know with um say vargas
17:34museum in up or the atene art gallery or mcat in saint benilde but you know we don't have any large
17:44institutions creating gold standards for exhibition making here in the u.s where we're where we are
17:51now in new york very very um uh thick layers of uh audiences so you have let's say you know the global
18:03institutions you know like the big museums the metropolis museum the moma um the guggenheim the tate
18:12these sort of global institutions they are our audience and then the next layer would be regional
18:18museums so every single city or state has an art museum that they need to maintain um because art and
18:31culture is a part of the ecosystem and then underneath that or not well adjacent to that would be university
18:40museums so all schools stanford harvard berkeley all of these schools in the u.s they all have university
18:47museums which are um teaching and acquiring so when they acquire a work that work now becomes part of
18:56the teaching curriculum so it's taught to the students so this is the ripple effect that's happening
19:01and then of course alongside that you have um private museums private foundations and then you have private
19:07collectors here in the philippines we only have private collectors we do not have these layers of
19:14engagement um that um that that the u.s has i mean if you describe it that way i mean if you describe it
19:21that way it's a little bit too far but at the same time it's just different i think that
19:29i don't know if we should even get there okay you know what i mean i feel like we need to develop our
19:34own system our own ways okay that's a nice way for you we don't have to copy them no we don't yeah we don't we don't and
19:40it it's because we do have our own we do have our own um our own way you know our own way of
19:48appreciating and looking at art sometimes because people say like um in a developing country like
19:53ours um then there's really not much attention paid to the arts industry or the art industry because they
19:59say that um we have other priorities it's not a priority yes yes but how do you try and change
20:06the mindset because i mean art the art industry is something that we can also earn from right it can
20:11help the tourism industry of course it can help so many other industries as well so how do you try and
20:16change or shift that mentality by showing up it's really you know um the thing is it's kind of a good and
20:26bad thing that the government doesn't pay us attention you know you have to explain that i mean it's like
20:34they leave us alone example we don't have censorship okay in other countries may censorship
20:40or we don't have uh i think we still do have freedom of speech and we have freedom of art making
20:49and that's a big deal because this is something that um is it's a it's a privilege to be able for an
20:56artist to be able to make whatever they want right how do we change i think that is a very that's the
21:04question that is answered there's no what do you call that there's no like silver bullet there's no magic
21:12arrow to this change but i think that um it starts very much with people supporting museums how can you
21:25support the museum go to the national museum you go to the ccp you go to the metropolitan museum here
21:34um in your school you can visit your every school here has a museum um at least in universities uh go to
21:46your every city has a city museum um there are i believe maybe 15 to 20 branches of the national museum
21:55around the philippines visit that as in from lawag to samboanga ah okay there are branches and even like
22:03the cebu national museum it's very interesting it's in a boat um i mean you know so there are it
22:08exists and at least the national museum here in the philippines is very very active in visitorship
22:14they get thousands and thousands of people a day mostly students one of your um better known i guess
22:21exhibits was um filipinas ah yeah can you tell us a bit about that it was really primarily to showcase
22:28the work yes um female artists or yes i think um at that time uh i really wanted to find role models for
22:39myself it was really a very self-serving project but in the process it sort of gave me direction
22:51um and uh what we did was i worked with a curator whose name is diana on pin recto who herself had
22:59just come back from unesco in paris and she had come back here and um i said you know tita d i want to
23:08find very strong filipina pioneers she goes what are you gonna do with them i just want to talk to them
23:18she was why don't we do a project let's make let's take their picture you know let's let's let's
23:23let's document them so we made rules the rules were they needed to be a certain age they needed to
23:31have achieved a certain level of of not success is not the right word maybe a certain level of accomplishment
23:39um or influence and they needed to have an untarnished record so we found amazing women we
23:49found like the first chemist we found the you know these that these sisters who were like 50 year
23:55veterans of teaching we found um nuns who were surgeons we found we found all of these filipinas who
24:03were working so quietly and tirelessly and they were just sort of hiding in plain sight so i think
24:12we assembled if i'm not mistaken i don't know if it's 40 or 60 of them yeah and i photographed them
24:19one at a time it took about six months and we interviewed them uh we did document we did video
24:27documentation and then we did a show in ccp and then we had a book yeah it was great it was really
24:34great pia you should you should go back for that yeah i mean if you want to feel like you're part of a
24:42lineage of filipina workers and women who it's like they couldn't care less if they were acknowledged or
24:52not they just needed to keep doing and it was very inspiring very very inspiring but your work and
25:00your accomplishments have also been acknowledged you've been named um one of the 10 outstanding
25:05women in the nation service uh you the towns which is a very prestigious award yes um another bunch of
25:11workers tireless tireless workers that's what the t stands for yes tireless yes so um what does this
25:21recognition mean for you and you know for the legacy that you want to eventually leave behind well
25:27it's really it's very wonderful to be recognized um i think that it it makes you it gives you like um
25:37like you're real you know your efforts are not are being are being seen right um but i guess like the
25:46rest of the town's women it doesn't the recognition is one thing but it just means you need to work
25:52more there's a certain responsibility is it's bigger it's bigger and um siempre because you know you're
26:00alongside all of these like pillars of my god education sports uh entertainment business science
26:11and it's like okay wait you always have to check yourself like okay what are you doing like how are
26:19you how are you making things better how are you adding value not just to your life but to the people
26:26that you work with right or the communities you serve so it's a bigger responsibility i think you
26:33mentioned that you also have a gallery in new york yes how different is the new york gallery from the
26:39manila gallery uh how different it's about the same size um but the programming is slightly more
26:48international there and more historical so like now the show that's ongoing in new york is Imelda
26:55Kahipe Endaya who's uh she's a filipina artist in her 70s very active um from the 70s 70s to the present
27:04but mostly was doing the chunk of her work 70s the 90s feminist activist um you know protest uh anti-marcos
27:16so we decided okay we need to show that that very important historical work there so that it gives
27:22context to sort of the the filipino um psyche um under a dictatorship uh yeah and it's important work
27:34but if we show it here it's kind of like run of the mill but there it's so fresh even if the works
27:42were made in the 80s so we have to think of okay what would audiences there um learn from the most
27:52so that's yeah does that mean you have to shuttle back and forth between manila yes fairly often like how
27:59yes how often do you have to be um we i'm there maybe five times a year okay uh and i stay maybe
28:06three to four weeks at the time so about 20 weeks a year i'm there yeah but the way you describe it
28:11now you're back and forth manila new york and then you're there five times a year it sounds like you
28:15know every um not a jet setter's dream but it sounds very um it's very tiring but it sounds very glamorous i
28:23think that's what the word that sounds very exciting it's exciting and it is very much a privileged
28:30career uh it's but this did not happen overnight um we kind of built it this way
28:38as opportunities grew for artists this is how we started to you know to move around
28:45first within southeast asia and then more globally
28:51and we try and go to support our artists as much as possible because it's a big deal i mean the things
29:00that are happening to them are a big deal uh for example like we're going to um the naoshima art islands
29:10it's a group of islands in the middle of japan the setto inland sea and they have about 20 islands
29:16which are populated with art and uh i first went there in 2009 and i super fell in love with it
29:23and i thought kailan kaya magkakaroon ng pinoy artist dito it's happening
29:29and see you name pinoy artist her name is martha atienza she's from bantayan island in cebu okay so they
29:35acquired uh for a permanent installation a large uh video a video work wow of a fisherman um
29:44standing on his boat zipping through the visayan sea what what do you think is the most rewarding
29:52aspect of this journey that has been silver lens i still think it's exhibition making with artists
29:59um it's also seeing their works being um admired or seen by the rest of the world um you know when
30:09we go into museums where their their pieces are and you see you know the public or strangers looking
30:14at their work it's just amazing um to have been part of that process from the inception of the artists
30:21well inception of the work to this point wherein it's completely removed from the artist studio and
30:26it's now part of the public sphere i think that's that's pretty incredible you know it's like i don't
30:32know you you walk into a bar in germany and you hear freddie aguilar's anak being played it's like
30:39how weird and wonderful is that you know well now that you are officially we are naming you the official
30:45case study of success in the philippine arts industry uh what would your advice to young artists or
30:53aspiring gallerists yeah well advice to artists is find your own voice don't copy anyone um and if
31:02you're copying maybe that's not the career for you and then find the person who's going to champion your
31:08work i think maybe this one is just as important what do you want to tell parents of young artists and
31:15people who say that they want to pursue a career in the arts yeah let them let them fail or let them
31:22succeed i think that's what parents should do they should let their kids fail and then if they're
31:28spectacular at it then that's amazing celebrate when we get there yeah i mean like even myself i didn't
31:34think i was a spectacular artist so i figured i figured why am i going to keep doing this when i'm not so good
31:40at it when i can do something for other people who are really good at it and at this at this point um
31:48what are you most excited about or what are you most excited for in the philippine arts industry and for
31:55silver lens i'm really excited for the world to discover the philippine arts scene and it's happening
32:04uh i'm also very excited for southeast asia to really bloom as a contemporary art um
32:13region um there are in the next three to four years there are going to be five museums of
32:21contemporary art around southeast asia bangkok manila malay kuala lumpur and of course the singapore
32:29museums are online are already running so all of this will really sort of create energy that we can
32:39all sort of share and grow um that's what i'm excited for for the region for the philippines for
32:47silverlands uh i just want to keep being like first stop you know not just not just the bridge to get
32:57there but when they get here i want them to stay a long time uh and that's the same for our our
33:03artists and our clients i want them to to stay a long time with silverlands
33:13so this is the part where we ask the questions that you know others might be afraid to ask
33:17you sometimes wish you had pursued your medical degree instead never this year is my 25th year out
33:23of med school we discussed earlier how um you know the art scene can be very highbrow but um yes
33:28do you have some guilty pleasures yes i don't know i'm a Sharon Cuneta fan i mean i i'm a fan of
33:36Pinoy pop culture i think it's just matter of fact what we do in our downtime has nothing to do with
33:42art is there any piece of work that parang parang everybody's like wow good but you in your mind you're
33:49thinking dico gets whenever there's an artwork that i think dico gets that's the one i go to
33:58because i don't get it like i want to know how will you say yeah or i always um if there's like a super
34:05weird thing i'll always look for the artist and i want to find out more about this particular work because
34:13if you see it you know it now that experience is already in your in the past
34:19so when there's something mysterious that's that's an experience in the future so that's
34:25and usually like the pieces that i think are really quite unattractive when i see them first
34:30over time those are the ones i end up liking if you could acquire any single piece of art in
34:35the world for your personal collection no budget restrictions what would it be that's a big one
34:41i've been asked that many times and i never have the same answer so probably my answer right at this
34:48moment is i'm thinking of like what's what's an artwork that really stopped me in my tracks
34:56recently i would probably um it's a very unorthodox answer i would probably buy a collection
35:07of alexander mcqueen clothes oh okay i wasn't expecting that i would have you know like a
35:13painting or an instant i would i would buy clothes oh not necessarily to wear yeah but just to keep just
35:20to keep and to look at oh how interesting what is one unexpected skill that you have that people
35:27would not expect from somebody who owns an art gallery i am a golf addict this is something i
35:35played with played as a child so you're an athlete too yes but i stopped i played golf from 9 to 16
35:43years old and then i stopped 16 to 36 and then i took it up again yeah 15 years ago so now i play a lot
35:50and are you better now than you were 16 years old i am so much but i'm also older so i'm much more
35:57calm thank you so much yes come to silver lens anytime uh silver lens manila if you're here silver
36:05lens new york so our friends in the us if you come to new york please come visit us follow us online
36:11silver lens galleries um it's on facebook instagram or in art fairs around the world thanks for joining us
36:20don't forget to like subscribe and download power talks with pr can help on spotify apple podcasts gma
36:28integrated news streaming platforms or wherever you listen till the next episode
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