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00:00Having heard your videos and been in constant touch with you, one could see that the central
00:12idea of all your teachings is this.
00:16You very lucidly have said, you are not missing the secret, you are missing the obvious.
00:23And as we sit here to have a constructive discussion on a subject, I propose that the
00:28most obvious here is not us humans, but the space that we occupy, the land that we sit
00:36on.
00:38And for us humans as social beings, the most obvious today is the phenomenon called global
00:46warming or climate change.
00:49Incidentally, in the last two statements that one said, one mentioned us humans.
01:02The scientists, the researchers, the socialists who have tried to study this phenomenon have
01:08said, have averred and polemically argued that the sole cause of this phenomenon is human.
01:19It is an anthropocentric issue.
01:27And by the virtue of being in touch with you, one can also understand that spirituality too
01:31is anthropocentric.
01:35It places mind at the center.
01:40Today, this evening, let's talk about spirituality, climate change and this anthropos, this human.
01:54And Uditji.
01:55Alright.
01:56What is it that you want to talk about?
01:59We know man, we also know this thing called climate change or climate catastrophe.
02:09What is it specifically that you would want to discuss?
02:12While going through some articles on the internet and a few science journals, I came across some
02:21kind of news, which was very much alarming for me.
02:24And somehow when I look at the world around, when I look at the social media, when I look
02:27at the people having their discussions in the cafeteria, I usually never find this topic
02:32there.
02:33And I have a few news articles with me, some headlines that I want to discuss.
02:37You mean you don't find them discussing climate change in all these public places, cafeteria,
02:44malls and all these places.
02:46I think it's very much in vogue now.
02:48People are discussing.
02:49Recently when this climate strike thing came into discussion since last, I guess, 20th
02:54September, 27th, this was very much in the news.
02:56But before that, this has been highlighted recently.
03:00But even before that, it's not something unknown or unheard of.
03:07People are talking about it.
03:11It's not that the discussion tonight needs to be related to raising general awareness on
03:22the topic.
03:23Let's go a bit deeper into it.
03:30See, what is it that you want to understand about it?
03:35Let's together explore.
03:38But still, I feel one thing here that maybe in the public purview, the intensity of the
03:48problem, the very magnitude at which it is hovering over us, it's not very much clear.
03:54Okay.
03:55For example, I was going through one of the science journals and I found a very particle
04:02from a United Nations Institute.
04:03that if we actually want to stop some irreversible change happening from climate change.
04:10We just have only 11 years to take action.
04:13Okay.
04:14And just after that, I came across a BBC report.
04:17And there they said that when we say 11 years, I think as if we have a lot of time.
04:22To achieve that target of 11 years, we need to act right now and to have those policies
04:28intact.
04:29We have just 18 months.
04:30Okay.
04:31It is from the time when this article was written.
04:32So basically they were referring to 2020, 2020.
04:36And after that, I also had a look over a letter, which was written by a union of concerned scientists.
04:43And these scientists were from USA.
04:45They had written a letter in 1992 when initially climate change was actually for the first time
04:51came into the international debate.
04:53And there they wrote a letter and there they said that if we are not going to take some actions,
05:00some measures in coming years, then this will be a huge issue.
05:04And saving people from those catastrophic disasters would be irreversible and irreplaceable.
05:12And recently in 2017, they wrote another article that even after raising that first warning,
05:18this time 15,000 scientists came together and wrote that article.
05:22And there they say that even after that first warning in 1992, at this point in time till 2017,
05:28all the graphs are rising towards the sky.
05:31So even when the common man at times is speaking about this issue,
05:36maybe we are having so many summits and so many conferences,
05:39we are taking pledge and also talking about cutting emissions and everything.
05:43I do not see that very intensity in their daily actions maybe.
05:48So do I gather from your statements that the phrase climate change has entered the popular vocabulary,
06:01the popular culture, yet on the ground, very little action seems to be taking place.
06:12And even if action is taking place, it is largely symbolic and is not yielding any concrete results.
06:24Do I gather this? All right. Yes. So now what is that one to say?
06:31Even when we go further into this, we find that the kind of things that are in the public purview,
06:37doing these things will save us from climate change.
06:39Right. I see a lot of strikes, demonstrations.
06:42I see people wearing T-shirts. I see them raising placards. Yes.
06:46There I see that people are talking about things like, you know, maybe having your ACs at 22 degrees.
06:53Right. Right. Right. But that's useful.
06:55That's useful. Yes.
06:57Apart from that, people will speak of maybe using public transport.
07:00That too is useful.
07:01Yes. It's definitely is.
07:03And maybe they speak of not using plastics and that is very much useful.
07:08That's nice. Yes.
07:09That's also a problem. But even after that, I actually went further into researching and there is a particular organization,
07:17which is by the name Climate Action Tractor.
07:19Right.
07:20And according to them, at this point in time, the kind of measures we are taking,
07:24it is going to take us to 4.1 degrees Celsius of global warming by the end of the century.
07:29And which is totally beyond the permissible limit or rather the one we are aiming at, 1.5 degrees Celsius.
07:35So what I hear from you so far is this, that the alarm bells were first rung sometime in the later half of the last century.
07:481970s, 1980s was the first time when some scientists first raised the concern.
07:56And since then the intensity of the call from the scientific community has only risen.
08:05And it has reached popular culture now.
08:09It has penetrated popular media.
08:11People are talking about it.
08:13Teenagers and kids know about it.
08:17And yet you see a bleak future.
08:21Why do you say so?
08:23When everybody is talking about it.
08:26When you see people coming out in the streets, holding strikes, having demonstrations, conducting awareness camps.
08:42I met a bright fellow.
08:45He handed over a pamphlet to me and it spoke about all the right things.
08:51So, isn't it encouraging that these things are happening and the public at large is now much more aware than it was, let's say two decades back?
09:03Maybe it is increasing, but it is not increasing at the rate the catastrophe is increasing.
09:09Okay.
09:10So, that is what you want to talk about.
09:12Alright.
09:13So, what you are saying is that what is happening really on the ground, beyond all the banner work, and all the studio work, and all the headlines and TRPs, is very little and very late.
09:32Is that what you are saying?
09:34Yes.
09:35Alright.
09:36So, what is it that you want to now know?
09:39Why is it so?
09:41Why is it so little and why is it so late?
09:46Why is it happening in the first place?
09:51Unless you first want to know why it is happening in the first place, how would you be able to mitigate it?
10:00Why do you think it is happening?
10:03Why?
10:04The whole phenomena of what you call as climate change, and the related problems, collapse of ecosystems, biodiversity loss, loss of forest cover, and then so many other things.
10:21Do we really need to talk about that?
10:24Or are we beginning with the assumption that people are aware?
10:26No.
10:27I think we need to first of all understand where is all of this coming from?
10:31Because we did not see this happening since the advent of civilization.
10:44Anthropogenic climate change is a very, very recent thing.
10:52It is less than two centuries old.
10:57It came along with the industrial revolution and it made its presence felt only in the last
11:06century.
11:07Before that, there is no evidence, no trace, and actually no global warming.
11:13Why is it happening first of all?
11:15Why do we see it happening today?
11:16I find this word very interesting, anthropogenic, because here we are not just talking about
11:26these particular emissions that are happening, but also the world view that we have.
11:30Because to us, everything is for our use.
11:33Okay.
11:34So we had industrial revolution.
11:35So the major purpose was increasing the productivity.
11:38So that maybe people can be employed, the goods must reach to the masses.
11:44Right.
11:45And right from there, it is simply increasing and increasing increasing.
11:51The population is one more indicator towards that.
11:54The human population has been increasing since that time.
11:56So, sorry for interrupting.
11:59Has something special happened in the last 200 years beyond the mills and the furnaces
12:04and the emissions?
12:08Something special?
12:09Why do we see this happening today itself?
12:11If it is related to man, do we want to say it is related to man's mills or related to
12:21man's mind?
12:22We would be tempted to say it is related to man's mills.
12:27Since the mills took over, we have started seeing a lot of carbon and sulphur and nitrogen
12:34in the air.
12:35Do we want to start there?
12:38Or do we want to go back further?
12:42We will be back.
12:44Okay.
12:45So, it would be very tempting to say that man has been doing fairly alright.
12:52And it is the mills that came along the track of civilization and industrial development.
13:03And now they are causing this nuisance.
13:06But the mind that brought about the mills would surely be able to mitigate the effect of the
13:16mills as well.
13:17Isn't that tempting to say?
13:18Yes.
13:19So, that is one thing.
13:21You could begin from where the mills come.
13:24This would be the sociological or structural or purely economic way of looking at it.
13:33I want to go further back.
13:40You see, who is man?
13:48I keep on saying man is a continuous dissatisfaction.
13:52Man is a continuous incompleteness.
13:59Man is someone who doesn't quite like himself as he is, where he is, what he is.
14:13That's how man is.
14:14That's how his basic physical bodily constitution is.
14:23Now, there is a line of thought that does not really
14:43encourage man to go into his dissatisfaction or restlessness or incompleteness.
14:56Rather wants to use the restlessness as an engine of material progress.
15:04You know, you are restless for material goods.
15:09Go ahead, obtain those goods, obtain more material wealth for yourself and you will feel better.
15:23And then there is a line of understanding which says, unless you know who is going out to satisfy
15:33himself via the world, there would be no point venturing out.
15:38Don't you first want to know who you are and what your motivation is and where the whole
15:43thing is coming from?
15:45And then you may proceed with whatever you want to do.
15:49Obviously, you have understood we are looking at the occidental modes of perceiving the self
16:03and the world.
16:04When the ego does not quite understand itself, then it has no option but to proceed on an
16:32outwardly journey.
16:33Journey is a very sober and calm world.
16:45The ego merely does not journey.
16:51It tramples, it devastates, it blasts away everything that comes its way.
17:02It wants to be satisfied.
17:06In other words, it wants to be happy.
17:11It wants to be happy using material.
17:21And material has not been known to give the ego or the self lasting satisfaction or happiness.
17:30So the result is more and more consumption of whatever the ego can lay its hands on.
17:48So, interim episodes of happiness are obtained.
17:57And they keep the hope of lasting satisfaction alive.
18:04So man goes on capturing, conquering and consuming.
18:16What does man capture?
18:17What does man conquer?
18:18What can he consume?
18:20When man looks outside, as his senses make him to, what does he see?
18:32If you look here and there, what is it that you can see?
18:35Natural world.
18:36Okay, the natural world.
18:37What is it that you can see when you look outward?
18:40You see the material.
18:41You see material.
18:42You see material.
18:43You see material.
18:44Can you elaborate?
18:45What all kinds of material can you see?
18:48You see humans.
18:49You see humans.
18:50You see.
18:51You see.
18:52You see trees.
18:53You see birds.
18:54You see plants.
18:55You see plants.
18:56Okay.
18:57And obviously, you see man-made stuff.
19:02So, you see man.
19:03You see man-made stuff.
19:07And you see so-called natural stuff, which I call as prakritic stuff.
19:14Can I divide and capture everything that can be seen in these three divisions?
19:24Man.
19:25Man-made objects and so-called natural objects.
19:30Is there anything else that you can see?
19:34No?
19:35So, when man wants to consume, he does not spare any of these three from his lust for consumption.
19:47It is obvious.
19:48Right?
19:49I am hungry.
19:50I am dissatisfied.
19:51I want to consume.
19:52And I do not know what is it that would appease me, make me happy, quench my thirst.
20:06So, I will try out everything.
20:13Any guess is as good as any other guess.
20:18I cannot just spare anything.
20:23It is a matter of deep inner unrest.
20:28I have to try out all possible ways.
20:31So, man tries out all possible ways.
20:35Who is this man?
20:37Just to put the whole thing together.
20:38Who is this man?
20:40This is the man who is coming from a mode of thinking that lays more emphasis on understanding
20:53oneself.
20:54It is much more concerned about the outer world.
20:59And of course, when it is concerned about the outer world, there would be great progress
21:04in science and technology, in everything that can be seen outside.
21:09So, this man is coming from that domain of thought.
21:17He will not look at the thing called ego.
21:20He will not look at the self.
21:23It is not very interesting.
21:29And it is tedious.
21:30Why look at the self?
21:32Also, it is humiliating at times.
21:36Especially if you are a philosopher, it is great to philosophize about this and that.
21:42But if you start philosophizing about yourself, it does not turn out too good.
21:48So, you want to think about, oh, money, masses, dialectics, nations, communities, modes of production,
22:05what not?
22:06What not?
22:07You want to think about all these things.
22:09What is it that you want to strictly avoid?
22:12You want to avoid looking at yourself.
22:15Firstly, that is not very interesting to the uninitiated mind.
22:19Secondly, it can turn out to be humiliating.
22:23You can have a lot of grandstanding when you point fingers at this and that and say, I know
22:33who you are, I know who you are.
22:36There is no grandstanding when you look at yourself and say, I do not know who I am.
22:47So, it is a compulsion with this man who comes from that line of thinking to keep proceeding
22:56only outwards and he finds these three categories outwards.
23:02There is man, there is man-made objects and then there are the trees and the animals
23:09and the rivers and the mountains.
23:11What is he going to do with all these three categories?
23:16Can he spare anywhere either of the three?
23:21Why must he?
23:24Why must he?
23:25He will try out everything because he does not know anything.
23:29When you do not know anything, you have no option but to try out everything, obviously.
23:34When you do not know where your redemption lies, you will knock at every door.
23:39And these are the doors that are available to the man who proceeds outwardly in order to
23:44make himself happy.
23:45If I am proceeding towards the world to make myself happy, these are the three domains I
23:51will encounter.
23:52I will encounter human beings.
23:54I will encounter animals, birds, rivers, trees.
23:57And I will encounter man-made objects, cars, buildings, clothes, gadgets.
24:07What will I do with all these?
24:10What option do I have?
24:11Do I have an option?
24:12I am hungry, I am unhappy and I do not know from where would happiness come.
24:18So, do I have an option?
24:19What am I going to do with all these three?
24:22I am going to eat them up.
24:25That is what man has been doing not since the last two centuries, not since the mills came
24:33about.
24:34He has been doing this since he has been known to be conscious.
24:40That is what he has been doing.
24:45He wants to eat up everything.
24:47Now, what is the result then?
24:50When man eats up man, the result is population.
24:56What is this population?
24:59The woman goes out and eats up the man.
25:03You have babies.
25:04The man goes out and wants to eat up as many women as possible.
25:09You have babies.
25:12So, from the drive to consume first of all come babies when the object of consumption
25:23is a human being.
25:25The next object of consumption is man-made objects because they too are available.
25:30Why must I spare them?
25:33So, when man wants to consume man-made objects, the result is he guzzles up fossil fuel.
25:42Give me more diesel.
25:43Give me more petrol.
25:44Where else would the energy come from?
25:46I want buildings.
25:48I want to consume and whatever you want to consume has to be firstly manufactured.
25:53How will I manufacture it?
25:54I don't have energy and energy from any of the sources as we currently know is carbon intensive.
26:07Even the so called green energy has a strong carbon footprint when seen in totality.
26:17So, when man consumes man-made objects, again the result is more consumption and more carbon.
26:32And then man says I will consume the natural world as well.
26:37Why should these folks roam about happy and untouched?
26:44Maybe they can make me happy.
26:45Maybe they can make me happy.
26:46How about some beef?
26:47How about more corn?
26:50How about turning a great banyang tree into a bonsai?
26:57I want it in a little pot.
26:59I will keep it in my bedroom.
27:04I am getting it.
27:09How about developing a delectable waterfront by the side of a great river.
27:18I will go there and satisfy my senses.
27:21And what is the waterfront all about?
27:24Tons and tons of cement.
27:29Tons and tons of cement.
27:31I will consume everything.
27:34And if you will look at these three types of consumption, you will understand what climate
27:41change is in all its totality.
27:44Nothing drives climate change except these three.
27:49Man consuming man.
27:51And when I say man, I mean mankind.
27:53It is not a gender specific thing.
27:55When I say man consuming man, that gives birth to unsustainable populations.
28:04When I say man consuming man made objects, that is what is meant by, generally meant by
28:13the level of consumption.
28:15And when I say man consuming the natural world, that is what is meant by loss of biodiversity.
28:24Excessive fishing, extension of species and what not.
28:34So, that is the overall framework.
28:36You cannot look at any small part of it.
28:40You have to go to the very basis of it.
28:43The very basis of climate change is the constitution of man himself.
28:48It is not a specific activity of man that is leading to climate change.
28:55And do grill me on this.
28:57I just don't want to go away untested.
29:02I want both of you to question me on this.
29:06I would love to have a clearer understanding.
29:09But this is my thesis so far.
29:15The very constitution of man is such that he is bound to destroy everything.
29:21It is just that sometimes he calls his destruction as construction.
29:26Real construction is something totally different.
29:30It does not come from that line of thought which prohibits man from looking at itself.
29:36Real construction or real creativity comes from another mind which due to the various vicissitudes
29:48of history could never gain enough prominence or power to guide the course of history.
29:55That kind of mind has sometimes been found in the orient though it is fairly lost now.
30:12So, man as he is, is climate change.
30:19So, climate change is not merely man made.
30:24Climate change is man's compulsion.
30:28Man cannot help climate change.
30:31Man is climate change.
30:36If you have this big a hole in your heart, what else will you do?
30:40You will use the entire universe to plug this hole.
30:44And if you find this planet earth, too little to fill up your hole.
30:59Then you will proceed towards other planets.
31:01Of course, man is the only animal blessed with intellect.
31:05So, you can do that.
31:08You can now go and colonize Mars.
31:11And you can say, we have eaten away whatever there was to be eaten on the earth.
31:18Now, it is the turn of another planet.
31:21Gobble it up.
31:27You will consume.
31:28Why didn't then you see climate change in the entire history of mankind but for the last
31:35two centuries?
31:36Because man's science and technology were yet not developed enough to show their true colors.
31:46Science is not something that happens suddenly.
31:54Science is gradual.
31:56It is a body of knowledge that travels from generation to generation and scientist to scientist.
32:04One scientist stands upon the shoulders of the other as someone famously said.
32:08It was not about the intent.
32:09It was about the capability.
32:10Very right.
32:11The intent was always there to eat up everything available.
32:16You didn't have the weapons.
32:17The weapons were not there.
32:18Now the weapons are available.
32:20The weapons have become available only since the last 100-200 years.
32:24Now the weapons are being used.
32:26Had the weapons become available, let's say by some freak of nature, by some freak of history,
32:36at any time over the last several centuries, the result would have been the same.
32:42The result would have been just the same.
32:46Man is fundamentally an animal and far worse than an animal.
32:53An animal is alright in the confines of the jungle.
32:58He wants to eat things up.
33:02But then he wants to eat only in a limited way.
33:09And his hunger is physical rather than psychological.
33:14So, when a gorilla gets a fruit, the fruit is enough.
33:19Because the hunger is in the stomach, not in the mind.
33:26Man's hunger is not so much in the stomach.
33:30It resides in his mind.
33:33And no fruit is enough when it comes to the mind.
33:40So, man has been destroying everything he can touch.
33:45And climate change is the most recent, the most devastating and probably the most final symptom of it.
33:57Are you getting it?
34:02So, that's how I would look at it.
34:09Obviously, what I have just muttered is far too sketchy, scattered and incomplete.
34:19So, over the course of this discussion, we need to improve it, fill it up with details and take it deeper.
34:32But I have a strong opinion here that superficial attempts to tackle climate change are not merely insufficient,
34:59but are actually part of the problem.
35:06And superficial attempts will always be there when the understanding itself is superficial.
35:15If you do not understand what climate change is, if you do not understand what climate change is, how will you tackle it?
35:22Climate change, I say, is the most devastating, most complete and the most final expression of who man really is.
35:49Very lucidly explained Achareji and that was indeed very radical to those who are involved in the climate strikes that are ongoing right now.
36:01If one could scrutinize your thesis statement, basically you are saying that the intrinsic nature of man slash humankind slash mind
36:12is that it is going to boil into anything that is seemingly an object to it.
36:18Am I to infer that you are saying that there is a divide between the inside and the outside and this journey, which is not really a journey, which is an exploitative journey, is outside and because it is not inside, hence all of this is happening.
36:37So what is the way to really go inside?
36:41Man lives in ideas, does he not?
36:43Animals don't live in ideas.
36:45Man lives in ideas.
36:48Man is his own idea gone wrong.
36:51Man is his own flawed idea.
36:56Man lives in ideas, the idea has to be corrected.
36:59We don't live a life.
37:01If you really see, what we are living out is an idea and that's why lives differ in the little ways they can given that the fundamental idea is the same.
37:15So Acharajji, can we say that it is out of ignorance and not intend that man is doing
37:24all of this?
37:25This ignorance at the conscious level and deliberate mischief at the subconscious level.
37:35It's not that the option to really understand what all this is about, climate change and
37:43all the rills that plague mankind is not available to man.
37:49It is available.
37:50But there would be so many who would be switching off their screens at this moment in time if
37:56they are watching me.
37:58But Acharajji, you began by saying that this restlessness is going to ensure that the mind
38:06moves out.
38:07It doesn't have the choice to go inside.
38:10So the TV is going to get switched off.
38:12It's predestined.
38:13Yes.
38:14But then we have had instances in human history and surely such instances are available even
38:19today when the TV does not get switched off.
38:21It's just that those instances are few and far between and I said they have not been empowered.
38:26They have not been privileged.
38:28They have never gained prominence.
38:31But that is possible.
38:32So what is it that which shows the way inside, which tells the mind to not go outside?
38:38Is this a divide between the inside and the outside?
38:39Is it merely a divide of the direction or is it a divide of ontology itself?
39:14The self and the world.
39:15Everything has been destroyed.
39:16Everything has been destroyed.
39:17The self has been destroyed and the world has been destroyed.
39:20Now it's a matter of time before the destruction becomes manifest.
39:24That's the flawed idea.
39:25In my world we call it duality.
39:26Whenever there are these two, the self and the world, the self will have no choice but
39:40to satisfy itself upon the world.
39:45There is me, there is the world, the world is both a threat and an opportunity.
39:50I must defend myself against the world by rising materially, by fortifying myself and the world is also a delicious opportunity.
40:03Why not exploit it?
40:07Why not make the most of it?
40:11After all, you know, I am going to be alive only for a few decades.
40:16Is a fellow not entitled to have a good time?
40:19Let me have a good time, give me some steak.
40:22Let's burn those jungles, if that makes me happy and it does make me happy.
40:30I want land, I want farms, I want ranches.
40:39The moment there is this dichotomy, self and the world, and this dichotomy lies at the core of all Western philosophy.
40:49By that I do not mean that the ones who are responsible for this problem are all philosophers.
40:57They are not philosophers.
41:00They have just been indoctrinated in philosophy subconsciously.
41:08The philosophy of a place is in its very air, is in the vibes and you just soak it in.
41:18The central problem is man's idea of himself.
41:23Till man keeps calling himself as an entity distinct from the world.
41:31As someone who has come to the world and will one day depart from the world.
41:37He is bound to have a hostile and exploitative relationship with the world.
41:43Pardon me Acharya Ji, I will just take the discussion slightly backwards.
41:50From where do you draw this understanding of the man, of this restlessness, of the inner compulsion to go out and exploit?
41:59I just observe.
42:01Do you draw it from self observation or from the scriptures?
42:05The scriptures validate what I see.
42:08The scriptures too have arisen from observation.
42:13It's very easily observable.
42:16Every bit of consumption that man does is carbon intensive, is it not?
42:25Of the three legs of consumption that I just mentioned, consuming man-made stuff, consuming trees and animals and fish and mountains and trees and rivers and consuming other men and women.
42:50Nobody wants to talk about this elephant in the room consuming other men and women.
42:57And when we take this discussion further, we will probably be a bit surprised to see that it is this leg of consumption that is the most responsible for the climate adversity that we see and is the most ignored one.
43:22Do I call it ignorance?
43:23Do I call it deliberate mischief?
43:24People talk about cutting down on consumption of air conditioners and cars.
43:33People also talk about planting trees and not cutting down trees.
43:39But nobody wants to talk about the gorilla in the room.
43:48Well, there are many, but the biggest one.
43:53Nobody wants to talk about the consumption of one body by another body and the happiness that
44:02it seems to bring and the resulting numbers it is bound to create.
44:22So, all animals do that.
44:24Man is not the only animal who does that.
44:27It is just that man is intellectually much more capable.
44:32His intellectual ammunition is devastating.
44:39So, he does that on a scale that is just not possible for animals.
44:47Animals too consume the bodies of fellow animals.
44:51Animals too consume trees and mountains and rivers.
44:55They do that, don't they?
44:57But man does that on a much, much greater scale.
45:02And animals feel satisfied once they have done what they have done.
45:06Man's problem is, in spite of consuming fellow human beings, gadgets and trees and rivers
45:16and animals, on a scale that is a million times bigger, he still does not feel satisfied.
45:23I want to interrupt in the beginning.
45:30With the entire discussion up till now, we used two words initially that man is bound to do this.
45:36He has that kind of outlook towards the world, looking at the material world.
45:41And also that it is in this very constitution.
45:45The moment I hear these two words, it feels like that as if the man who is just looking at the outside world
45:51has no capacity to stop at these three consumptions, these three levels of consumptions.
45:57But as I move forward with the data and everything, I see that since 1960s,
46:03the rate of population increase was decreasing up till now.
46:08And it has also been seen that if, especially women are educated even in the worldly stuff,
46:15and the basic economics and everything, it has been seen that the fertility rate increases as their education increases.
46:25For example, if a woman is just maybe studied till graduate level, the fertility level is high.
46:32If the women is most graduate level, the fertility level is low.
46:36So somehow it gives up promising fact.
46:39What do you say about the carbon footprints of those nations, Udet, where the fertility rate is the lowest?
46:46Let us talk about the US, let us talk about Europe, obviously, right?
46:51The fertility factor there has come down to 2.1, 2.2, sometimes even below 2.0.
46:58So their carbon emissions must have surely now decreased and they must be surely now very, very green countries.
47:07That's the thing with consumption.
47:10If you don't consume one thing, you will feast on something else.
47:19So there are the poor countries, they don't have goodies to feast on, they don't have gadgets
47:26and the buildings and the cars and all the goodies.
47:30So what do you find there?
47:32Population.
47:33Population.
47:34Yeah, you have population there.
47:35And then you have countries where the population growth has been limited, yet there is unlimited
47:40carbon release.
47:42So it is not about population, it is not about gadgets and it is not about vegetarianism or
47:52veganism.
47:53It is about man's fundamental tendency to see himself as incomplete and take care of that
48:02incompletion through consumption.
48:04Till you do not address that, man will consume.
48:10So you may have a man or a woman in Japan, who is now empowered, literate, has all the means
48:21to take care of his or her fertility.
48:26So you don't find much population growth there.
48:30But has that, I am asking you, resulted in an overall shrinking of the carbon footprint?
48:39Not at all.
48:40Because if you do not want to have happiness through kids, you will have happiness through
48:47gadgets.
48:48So you refuse to have kids.
48:49You say, oh, kids are such a hassle.
48:58You know, I want to live life and enjoy life and have the big life.
49:01So you don't have kids.
49:03But what are you doing?
49:04You are going ahead and exploiting the entire world and releasing carbon.
49:09You will release carbon in some way or the other.
49:14If not through begetting kids, then through doing something else.
49:19Don't you see that people are not refusing to have kids because they have become wiser.
49:27They are refusing to have kids because they want to have a more happy life.
49:36Not a more wise life.
49:41Not a wiser life, but a happier life.
49:45Further, if you rely on these things, yes, obviously, the world population is going to
49:54stabilize by the end of this century.
49:56Today, we are 8 billion.
49:57The population will stabilize at 11 billion.
49:59Will that make you happy?
50:02There is not going to be a fall.
50:09We are talking of still moving from 8.58 to 11.
50:14We are not even 8.58.
50:15We are 8.
50:16We are at 8 and we are talking of moving to 11.
50:19And we were 2.5 in the 1950s or 1960s.
50:24From there, we have come to 8 and we are traveling to 11.
50:28So, it is not that literacy and material welfare and accessibility to birth control measures
50:46has a greatly positive effect when it comes to climate change.
50:54A country develops, the fertility rate falls, but the carbon footprint expands.
51:04Have you not seen it?
51:07The country develops, the fertility rate falls, but nevertheless, the carbon footprint expands.
51:16So, those who talk of population alone are mistaken.
51:25Those who talk of material consumption alone are mistaken.
51:30And those who talk of food habits and food choices alone are also mistaken.
51:35Because none of them is seeing the bigger and total picture.
51:39None of them is seeing that eating animal flesh and feasting yourself on your wife's flesh
51:48repeatedly are somewhere the same thing.
51:53None of them are seeing that your tendency to go to the mall and buy the latest gadget and
52:00then go to the food court in the mall and have the most delectable meals is the same.
52:11Is it any coincidence that a shopping mall offers both?
52:16You can have everything nice to wear.
52:20You can have everything nice to watch and you can have everything nice to eat.
52:25And we very well know that food choices are responsible for probably a third of all carbon emissions.
52:32Are they not?
52:34Where are food choices coming from?
52:36Food choices are coming from exactly the same place.
52:39This uncontrolled population is coming from.
52:42Food choices are coming from exactly the same place.
52:45Where are the obsession with GDP growth is coming from?
52:47They are all coming from the center that says happiness can be had through more and more stuff.
52:54The stuff could be a kid in the family, the stuff could be the latest recipe on the internet,
53:02or the stuff could be the latest laptop in the market.
53:06But it's all about stuff.
53:12Nobody wants to talk about man's tendency to have stuff.
53:20And even if you don't want to go that deep because it becomes uncomfortable.
53:27At least talk about the most important leg among these three legs.
53:34The one that we are deliberately ignoring.
53:40Talk about the taboo that living single is.
53:50In most of the world still.
53:51Talk about the concept of the full nest that pervades the developing and the developed world
54:03much the same.
54:07I am there, I have a woman in my life and I must have a couple of kids you know.
54:14That's what makes for a happy life.
54:16And obviously a house full of goodies to keep the three or four of us happy.
54:23That's global warming for you.
54:25The happiness.
54:26The concept of the happy family.
54:30It seems that in the upcoming episodes we won't be talking about global warming as such.
54:35We will be dealing with that.
54:36No, we need to talk about that.
54:37And we need to substantiate what we have just said with facts and figures.
54:42Otherwise it remains a mere man's opinion.
54:47But Achareji, if the tendency to go out instead of looking in is there, what facts, what figures
54:56will convince?
54:57At least we should know what is the result of going out.
55:00About that you can have facts and figures.
55:02I see Udutt is already ready with so much.
55:05Surely these are not stuff or data pieces related to meditation.
55:11It's about what results when man proceeds on this wild adventure called the pursuit of happiness.
55:23Global warming is the result of our various pleasures and happinesses.
55:31Till the time we keep thinking that the objective of man's life is to be happy.
55:36And happy in an external way.
55:38You will have climate change and you will have this sixth or seventh mass extinction that
55:47is very much upon us.
55:49But as we see, the timeline that we have to act is very small.
55:55And that is why we must talk about the real thing.
55:59Half-hearted or superficial measures are not going to work now.
56:06You cannot have somebody set his AC to 22 instead of 16 and then feel proud that he is contributing
56:16to the climate movement.
56:17To the climate movement.
56:18That is mere self-deception.
56:19So, we have to go to the core of the problem.
56:24See where everything is coming from.
56:26And there we might be able to discover something authentic.
56:31I don't know yet.
56:32I too will discover that as I speak to you in the course of this conversation.
56:37We have laid the foundation.
56:42We will inspect the foundation.
56:45We will check it.
56:46We will verify it.
56:48And then we will try to raise something on it.
56:51But we do realize the magnitude of the project because the man is on a pleasure trip.
56:57And just amid the pleasure, we are going to nudge him and say, dude, stop that.
57:02Obviously, obviously.
57:03You need satisfaction.
57:06But if you are looking for it where you are currently looking for it, then the results
57:13will be what they currently are.
57:16We need to find out an alternative.
57:19And we don't need to just go berserk and blind.
57:23We need to substantiate every step with as much data as possible.
57:29All this needs to be shown and discussed and provided to the audiences who would be listening
57:38to this.
57:39We will be doing that.
57:41And yes, it's a good beginning.
57:44Let's carry forward it.
57:47OK.