- 9 months ago
In this edition of the Democratic Newsroom, the big focus is on the political war between the government and the opposition over Operation Sindoor.
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00:00Welcome to yet another edition of the Democratic Newsroom.
00:20The Prime Minister is on a whirlwind tour.
00:23A tour going state by state at the back of the success of Operation Sindhoor.
00:29Now the opposition calls it from Operation Sindhoor, now the Prime Minister is on Operation
00:36Vote Bank.
00:37The big question is, is it par for the course where politics is concerned or is it what
00:40the opposition deems ethically wrong?
00:42Well, we have with us our band of editors of the India Today group all coming together
00:47with their opinion on what side of that divide they stand on.
00:51Let me quickly introduce to you, right from the right of me is my colleague Soesha, who
00:56has just joined the India Today family.
00:59I have Akshuta Nandgopal, my colleague on the left, I have Gaurav Savant and then of course
01:04a new edition, Anjali Ishtawar.
01:06We are also through the course going to teleport, you know that's the beauty of technology.
01:11I have with me coming in, teleported from Maharashtra Mumbai, Consulting Editor Rajdeep Sardasai and
01:19with him our colleague Sahil Joshi.
01:21So, you're going to have them through the course of this discussion, debate, so let's
01:27get cracking right away.
01:28Rajdeep, let's begin with you.
01:31What's at the back of Operation Sindhu, success Prime Minister today was in West Bengal, Bihar
01:39is coming in from Rajasthan, Gujarat will be onwards to Lucknow.
01:43What do you make of it Rajdeep, Operation Vote Bank or power for the course, this is what
01:47politics is all about?
01:48Par for the course, Preeti, this is politics.
01:54What do you expect politicians to do but politicize issues?
01:56The era of political statesmen is over.
01:59We have been replaced by political pugilists and political strongmen who will use every opportunity
02:06to exploit any situation for political benefit.
02:10The truth of the matter therefore is that that's exactly what's playing out at the moment.
02:16You're seeing politicians, particularly in the ruling party, particularly the Prime Minister
02:21himself, who's very good at it.
02:23It's not that people before Narendra Modi ji didn't try and use every event to harness
02:28it to their own image and their political vote bank.
02:31It's just that it's done now more brazenly and unapologetically than ever before.
02:35Just two instances, you've got an all-party delegation that's leading the India charge abroad
02:41and you've got the Prime Minister taking on his political opponents at home today.
02:45The latest example being in Bengal.
02:47And even more interestingly, you've got someone like Nishikan Dubey, a BJP MP who's part of
02:53one of these all-party delegations, then happily tweeting against Rahul Gandhi, Indira Gandhi,
02:59possibly going back to Jawaharlal Nehru and what they did or didn't do.
03:02I mean, it is politics at some would say it's very worst, some would say at its best because
03:09politicians are there to get votes, even if it means getting votes over the valor of our soldiers.
03:15That's tragic according to me, but maybe that's why I'm not a politician.
03:19Well, you know, well, Gaurav, would you want to weigh in on what Rajdeep said and importantly
03:24on the question that we're mooting this democratic newsroom edition, what do you make of it?
03:29So, when you have something to talk about, you talk about it.
03:32You know, if you're talking about, we go back in history, Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, naturally
03:37he could not have spoken of 1962 India-China war because that was a massive debacle for India.
03:45And clearly he couldn't have said that, you know, that operation in any rally, he couldn't
03:50have spoken about it, you know.
03:52So, 1962 was a disaster.
03:541965 was some kind of a stalemate.
03:57So, what could Lal Bahadur Shastri talk about?
04:00He did talk about Jai Jawan, Jai Kisan and that's something that stayed with us.
04:03But unfortunately, losing Haji Peer and Preeti, you'd understand the pain of losing Haji Peer
04:09after winning it in battle since your father fought in that war.
04:12Well, that's nothing that he could tom-tom about and sadly, he passed away in Tashkant.
04:18If we were to talk about tom-tomming your achievements, Indira Gandhi won the 1971 war,
04:24cut Pakistan into two, Bangladesh was born.
04:27And even in 2025, the Congress Party is talking about it, not just in 1971 or subsequent elections.
04:34Indira Gandhi as the strong lady, is somebody talking about Sam Manikshaw?
04:38You know, was that politics at its best or politics at its worst?
04:41In 2025, the credit is being given to Indira Gandhi and not Sam Manikshaw.
04:45So, if Prime Minister Narendra Modi talks about it, well, it's powerful course.
04:49All right, you know, I'm going to go to Sahil, but I want to give my two pence on this, Rajdi,
04:52because I tend to disagree with what you say that, you know, with what is going on at this juncture,
04:59because primarily if you look at it, Rajdi, one would think this is lazy politics by the Congress,
05:03because look at their timeline, their social media timeline.
05:06They still have AI images of Indira Gandhi schooling Narendra Modi, the current Prime Minister,
05:11on how she dealt with 1971.
05:13So, the Congress, even to this day, is trying to leverage 1971.
05:17Let's even go back to 1971, Rajdi.
05:19Every time there's a strong political leader, they will politically leverage a military victory.
05:26At that point of time, the entire Parliament resounded with the chants of joy, Bangla, joy, Indira Gandhi.
05:32Long live Bangladesh, long live Indira Gandhi.
05:34So, would you reckon, Sahil, to bring you in on this, lazy politics by the Congress right now,
05:40they need to find something more, and they have it in their arsenal to attack the BJP and the government with.
05:45They're just resorting to, oh, this is World Bank politics.
05:48It's bound to happen.
05:49They leverage it in 2019, Balakot, they'll leverage it now for the Bihar elections.
05:53Well, of course, I mean, in 2019, what we saw that despite election commission coming out in open
06:01and saying that you cannot use Pulwama attack or the Balakot airstrike in the election campaign,
06:08but despite that, nothing could stop the BJP from using it.
06:11And this has not happened only in 2019.
06:14I remember after Kargil war, Rajdeep might know it very clearly,
06:18that they celebrated Vijay Divas and Vajpayee, even Prime Minister Vajpayee and the BJP at that time
06:26was using the Kargil victory, you know, for the election victory as well.
06:32So, this has happened in the past.
06:34Now, why BJP is coming, putting a step forward and using this is basically because BJP is trying to compare it with 2008,
06:42whereas the Congress tries to compare it with 1971, which is, and both the situations are completely different situations altogether.
06:51But I would just like to add one interesting point to this, you know.
06:55For me, the most interesting statement right now is Nishikan Dube's statement in Saudi Arabia,
07:01you know, where he's talking about the secular India.
07:04He's also talking about there is no difference of the minority or majority community in India.
07:14So, everybody is having a completely different tune when they go international.
07:18You know, that's what, Sahil, what we call an offshore secularist.
07:22No, but why an offshore secularist?
07:24Because his words in India is a secular country.
07:27I'm telling you why offshore secularists, because his words in India are completely contrary to what his words are not.
07:32I am sorry, that's the way some may want to perceive.
07:35Not perceive, I'll quote him.
07:36I'm not talking about Nishikan Dube in particular, but I'm talking about India being a secular country.
07:42It's only for vote bank politics that some may try to show that Muslims are not happy or Muslims are persecuted.
07:47I am sorry, Muslims are happiest in India if they want it.
07:51Not one Muslim has left this country point one.
07:54But we're talking about Nishikan Dube.
07:56No, but let's also not paint a picture that India is not a secular country.
07:59Is that you can, you can, you can, you can see that, but he's not, okay, one second.
08:04I think you've taken it, you, one second.
08:06Why Nishikan Dube?
08:06The first tweet, the first tweet after the Pahlgaam attack by the BJP's, BJP's social media handle,
08:12which says that dharm poochah jaati nahi.
08:14And after that, when, uh, he's talking about, he's talking about dharm poochah,
08:19but he is talking about Nishikan Dube.
08:23One second, okay, let me, let me open up the panel, sorry, one second.
08:28Allow me to open up the panel.
08:29You were talking about, we were talking about Nishikan Dube.
08:31I think Gaurav has misunderstood what he was trying to say.
08:34No, I haven't. I, I, I, I'm just reading between the lines.
08:36But there's nothing to read between the lines.
08:38What is there to read between the lines?
08:39We're talking about Nishikan Dube.
08:40He goes and says something entirely different abroad than what he says in India.
08:43Okay, allow me to open up the debate.
08:45Akshita, your point.
08:46That's how it should be, isn't it?
08:47That when you go abroad, you stand in one country, you speak about India.
08:51You can go ahead and criticize what you want in domestic soil,
08:53which is what you talk about the opposition as well.
08:55When they're going abroad, we speak in one voice,
08:57which is what Nishikan Dube is also doing.
08:58So I don't know why we're suddenly like, oh my God,
09:00why is he making these comments abroad and not saying the same thing here?
09:04That's how it's supposed to be.
09:05And when we talk about politics over this entire issue,
09:08you know, when the Prime Minister speaks about Operation Sindur at a rally,
09:11I tend to wonder what we define really as politics over Operation Sindur.
09:15What crosses the line and what doesn't?
09:17When is it declared politics or when isn't it?
09:19This is the Prime Minister of the country talking about a successful operation.
09:23It's taken political will to do it.
09:25It's because he's, along with everyone else,
09:28taken a decision that, look, we're going to hit Pakistan.
09:29That has happened.
09:30So what's wrong with him coming out and saying, look, we did this?
09:33The politics, you know, the question is that he's going state by state,
09:35which I don't think there's anything wrong with.
09:37Yeah, so what is the politics here?
09:38Every politician, political party do.
09:40So what is the politics?
09:41If the Prime Minister speaks for a vote bank.
09:43No, for votes.
09:44Why is it a vote bank?
09:45I think the timing, you have to look at it.
09:47We all know elections are coming up in many states.
09:50And in 2026, we have quite a few elections coming up.
09:53So, of course, Prime Minister Modi is the face of this action that has happened.
09:58But when you see a photograph of the Prime Minister in the uniform,
10:04hoardings all the way on his way to his diet.
10:08No, what's wrong with that?
10:09I'll tell you what's wrong with that.
10:10It's the armed forces that should be adorned over there.
10:13Yes.
10:13Seriously, take away credit from them.
10:15No, I'm sorry.
10:15If you are armed forces in a political rally, then that would be a politician.
10:19You have a faceless soldier.
10:20Has he taken away credit from them?
10:22No, I'm not saying.
10:23No, one second.
10:24I'm not saying.
10:24Make your point.
10:25Okay, one second.
10:25I'm saying don't put General Rupendra Divedi's face.
10:28But you can have, if you want to glorify, why can you?
10:31It's not a political rally.
10:33But again, coming back to Akshita's point, it requires political will to take the decision
10:38that the government has taken.
10:39And time and again, they have been pointing out to how this will was lacking in the 10 years
10:44of the Congress.
10:45And especially after the surgical strike after Balakot and after Operation Sindur.
10:49And again, I come back to Akshita's point.
10:51Where is the politics?
10:52What do you define as politics?
10:53Because when he's speaking at these rallies, in terms of what he's saying is not different
10:58from what the country is feeling.
11:00Rajdeep wants to come in and let me go back.
11:02We go back to Rajdeep, sir.
11:04One second.
11:05I'll come back to you.
11:06Let me go full circle.
11:07Rajdeep, go ahead.
11:07Make your point.
11:10You know, the Prime Minister of the country will not chair an all-party meeting on Operation
11:15Sindur.
11:16The Prime Minister of the country will not agree to a special session of Parliament.
11:20The government of the day will not agree to answer questions about security lapses that
11:25took place in Pahlkam.
11:26Whether our planes were downed or not, we are not supposed to ask those questions.
11:31If I ask that question, I am deemed anti-national.
11:34Akshita wanted to know what is politics.
11:36Politics is when you even claim that the operation is ongoing.
11:40These are the words of the government, not mine.
11:42Operation Sindur is ongoing and you are going state by state holding roadshows claiming
11:47that you won the battle.
11:48But, sir, are there operational details being put out for us to object to it?
11:54No, no.
11:54One minute.
11:54One minute.
11:55One minute.
11:55One minute.
11:56If there are, if this is, if this is Operation Sindur is ongoing, please focus continuously
12:01on the military objectives.
12:03If you have not achieved them.
12:05How do we define?
12:07I'm sorry.
12:07I'm sorry.
12:07I'm sorry.
12:08I'm sorry.
12:08I'm sorry.
12:08I'm sorry.
12:08Hold on.
12:09Parvitt me, Rajdeep.
12:10You want the Prime Minister to focus on military objectives.
12:13One by one, nobody can get anything.
12:15What is coming in?
12:15You know, Rajdeep Sam, wait one second.
12:18Rajdeep, wait.
12:18Let's go to this point.
12:20Going on a roadshow, waving to audiences, then we won the war.
12:25Then why do, why do you say Operation Sindur is ongoing?
12:27Yeah, before Gaurav came in, before Gaurav comes in, let me just, let me just want, I just
12:31want to ask something to Rajdeep because he's just sitting next to me at this point of time.
12:35You know, I really want to understand, if support, it's a political decision.
12:39We all accept it, right?
12:40It's a political decision that the Prime Minister decided that, okay, we will, we will, we go
12:45inside Punjab and attack Pakistan.
12:48We will just not let it allow to go through.
12:50If they, if they, if they, if he takes the credit for it.
12:52No problem.
12:53What is wrong in that?
12:54No, no.
12:54What is wrong in that?
12:55And let me make it very clear.
12:57The Prime Minister will deserve full credit because he, okay.
12:59The way is, the way, the way Manmohan Singh takes the credit for opening up the economy.
13:04Okay.
13:04What is wrong if the Prime Minister takes the credit?
13:07But my point is the timing of it.
13:09My point is, look, you say the operation is ongoing, right?
13:13Right.
13:13You're still going around the world with your diplomatic outreach.
13:16When you are doing that, is that the moment when you go on road shows and celebrate an ongoing operation?
13:24I am wondering, is the, Mrs. Gandhi, Mrs. Gandhi was very different.
13:29The break, you cannot compare 1971 to Operation Sindur.
13:341971 resulted in the conclusive defeat of the Pakistani army, their surrender and the, and the forging of Bangladesh.
13:43Please do not compare 71 to 2025.
13:46I think that 2025 remains an operation.
13:49The times have changed.
13:50No, no, Radheep.
13:51Look, there are some who will celebrate.
13:54There are some who will sulk.
13:55We are celebrating as a nation for the simple reason that India has soundly thrashed Pakistan across 13 of their air bases and radar stations.
14:05In 21st century, two nuclear weapons states have gone head to head and we have thrashed Pakistan.
14:10Rajdeep, allow me to finish, I'll come to you.
14:11Permit me to complete my point, Rajdeep.
14:13Yeah, allow me to finish, I'll come to you.
14:14Permit me to complete my point, Rajdeep.
14:15Yes, every little battle has to be celebrated.
14:20Then that ultimate war, when that is won, that has to be celebrated.
14:24For the Prime Minister, it's also a question of keeping the morale of the armed forces high, the morale of the nation high.
14:30And to ensure that Pakistan's misinformation campaign, disinformation campaign, which is backed by several foreign powers, including China, Turkey and other countries, we are countering it.
14:40We are countering it on our own, Rajdeep.
14:42Okay, I have less time, I want to give everybody, Rajdeep, if you wanted to come in for a counter, then are going to Vakshita, she's been wanting to interject.
14:47Make your point, Rajdeep.
14:49No, no, let's not make this about silly binaries between celebrating and sulking.
14:54No one is sulking here.
14:55I'm just saying, let's get real.
14:57An operation, in the government's own words, is still on.
15:01When an operation is still on, you go on roadshows across the country, waving as if it's an election rally.
15:07But, Rajdeep, it is an election rally, there is an election in Bihar.
15:11You have every reason to think differently.
15:13You have every reason to think differently.
15:14But it is an election rally.
15:14Rajdeep, lazy politics too.
15:16Okay, one second.
15:17One second.
15:18I'll come to you.
15:18Anjali, I'll come to you.
15:19And now, Akshita, right after that, I'll come to you.
15:21I think we know better than anyone that all year round is an election time in this country.
15:26So, at no point can you say that, look, it's time to an election, not time to an election.
15:30Everything is time to elections, first.
15:31Second is, Rajdeep, when you say Operation Sindhu is still on, the government has made it fairly clear that this is not just a military operation.
15:39It's much beyond that.
15:41Ongoing in the sense we continue to target Pakistan on the issue of terror in several fronts, not just militarily.
15:47And I don't think the Prime Minister in any of his speeches has given operational details.
15:51Also, Anjali, on the issue of who gets credit.
15:53Give me one speech of the Prime Minister's where he hasn't said our forces.
15:57I gave full freedom to our forces and they conducted this strike.
16:00If at any point he said, I've done it, I went into Pakistan, I can't do it.
16:03He did, then I understand.
16:05He has said that we, I'm sure, he did.
16:08But there's nothing wrong in saying it.
16:10Anjali, okay, it's not about the credit war.
16:12No, but he did take credit for it.
16:14He's bound to take credit for it.
16:15But he did do that.
16:16Yes.
16:16But, Anjali, you're getting me wrong.
16:17I'm not talking about the credit.
16:19Nobody takes the credit when there is a win and it's the political way to do it.
16:24What I'm talking about is there are priorities.
16:26Maybe a special session is a priority than election rally.
16:31Right now for a Prime Minister, not the tallest leader of BJP.
16:35I understand.
16:36That may be a priority for the opposition.
16:38It may not be a priority for government.
16:40No, no.
16:41A special session is not for the opposition.
16:49It is for the entire country because the representatives of the entire country are there.
16:54Okay, but I said the entire country are asking for it.
16:56There is one political party or two that are asking for it.
16:58Okay, time out.
16:59Can I go to Soesha?
17:00I don't have much time.
17:01I want everyone to get an award.
17:02Soesha.
17:02I just want to address a couple of points that everybody has said.
17:05Firstly, the fact that yes, a special session of parliament must be done.
17:09But fact also remains that elections are around the corner.
17:13And if the Prime Minister is going around and talking about it and taking credit, I say to that level,
17:17I don't know if there is any harm in that.
17:21Okay, Anjali, one second.
17:22So the fact that the very messaging and what he is talking through is totally a matter of
17:26Soesha, you can talk to me and I don't think there is any harm in that.
17:29But one second, Sire, you know, I just want to bring in 10 seconds of what I wanted to say.
17:34Every time there is a strong leader.
17:36We have had a strong political leader.
17:37This is all the byproducts of that.
17:39You might not compare 1971 to 2025, but 1971, there were pictures of Indira Gandhi on every poster.
17:46She traveled through six states just going ahead on an election tour.
17:52She won four states out of those six.
17:54But Sahil, go ahead, make your point.
17:58Yeah, so I also want to raise one more point.
18:01You know, there is something which needs to be, I will not use the word clarified,
18:06but somewhere India needs to take a very clear stand on that.
18:10You know, somewhere some messaging needs to be done.
18:12The way the Prime Minister spoke about videshi mal should not be used.
18:16I mean, videshi vastuong ka istabal na kare.
18:19I mean, that's what he said in Gujarat, in his rally.
18:23He was hinting at China.
18:24The way the government spoke about Turkey.
18:29I mean, we should ban Turkey.
18:32Similarly, there needs to be some message sent to United States as well.
18:35The President of the United States, time and again, despite clarifying from the Indian government side,
18:43is making some kind of obnoxious statements.
18:45That day he was speaking to South African President.
18:47I'm going to take final comments.
18:48Rajdeep, 20 seconds.
18:49Make your point.
18:49How he was involved in that.
18:51Rajdeep, final comments.
18:52Let's just quickly go.
18:52No time.
18:53No time.
18:53Sahil, hard cut.
18:54Rajdeep, go ahead.
18:5520 seconds.
18:56How can Donald Trump come forward and keeps claiming that he's the one who got this done?
19:02Fair point.
19:03Fair point.
19:03Rajdeep.
19:04Some strong message needs to be sent to them.
19:05I won't have time then to go to MIMA.
19:07Rajdeep, you want to come in.
19:09I said at the very outset, politicians will be what have gone to Gaurav.
19:13No, no.
19:14I said at the very outset, politicians will be politicians.
19:17They have every right to take.
19:18They will take credit for whatever achievements they have.
19:22But I would have hoped that there would be a more objective assessment by anyone in government
19:26while an operation is ongoing.
19:28Both your strengths and your weaknesses, that would give a greater sense of confidence.
19:33Don't make it about yourself, only about your own image building.
19:37Make it about building a national consensus on how to deal with the rogue army stage in Pakistan.
19:42You know, the nation is doing so well right now, Rajdeep.
19:45The fact that even those people who are always criticizing India are very grudgingly admitting
19:52that we've done a great job in Operation Sindhur, that we've slammed Pakistan, that made in India
19:58missiles have done well, made in India weapons have done well, our tactics are better, our
20:03training has delivered.
20:04Pakistan goofed up at every level.
20:06The Prime Minister has just admitted that we're Fajra ki namaz pad raihte.
20:10What a 20 seconds to Akshita.
20:12Akshita, 20 seconds.
20:13But my only point is, you know, we are unable to realize the grand realities of how well we've done.
20:17Okay, with that, I'm just going to make my quick comment, which is that to me, it's not politics
20:21when the Prime Minister speaks of Operation Sindhur and how well we've done.
20:24To me, it's not politics when the opposition also questions and seeks accountability of
20:28the special session.
20:29So, Aisha, 20 seconds.
20:30Now, that is politics.
20:31You agree?
20:31I just want to add to what Akshita is saying that it's lazy politics by the Congress, as you rightly put it.
20:35Yeah, exactly.
20:36You know, what I'm saying is, I agree with what the BKM is going to do and how this party
20:41is lazy politics.
20:42They could have done better even when it comes to countering the government on this.
20:45I don't think so.
20:46Prime Minister, taking credit is wrong.
20:47It's absolutely the norm.
20:48But the problem lies in how BJP projects it on its social media and the other platforms.
20:54Right.
20:55Both sides.
20:56That's it.
20:57That's it.
20:58That's all we have for now.
20:59At least, in my two cents, the opposition here is doing the right thing for asking a special
21:04session on Parliament.
21:05Wrong thing by calling it vote-bank politics because this is par for the cause.
21:08At least that's what my two cents are.
21:09Have a quick break.
21:10We'll see you next week, Thursday, 7pm on Democratic Newsroom.
21:13Thank you, Sahil and Rajdeep, who are coming in to us all the way from our Mumbai studio.
21:19Thank you, Sahil.
21:21Have a great day.
21:22See you next week, my two cents on our Mumbai studio.
21:25Thank you, Sahil.
21:28Thank you, Sahil.
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