Bernie Sanders Rips DC Corruption, The Israel Lobby, & Reveals How Billionaires Buy Politicians

Cooking With Lynja

Transcript

00:00:00What's up, everybody? Welcome to Flagrant.

00:00:01Our guest today is one of the only people in politics

00:00:04who hasn't traded conviction for convenience,

00:00:07and somehow he is still here.

00:00:09For decades, he has stood in the middle of the storm,

00:00:12unbought, unbossed, untethered,

00:00:14saying what so many were too afraid to say,

00:00:16that working people deserve dignity,

00:00:18that healthcare is a right, that the system isn't broken.

00:00:21It was built to screw you over.

00:00:22He has been mocked, sidelined, betrayed,

00:00:25and that's just by his own party.

00:00:26And still, he shows up, not for power, not for fame,

00:00:31but because he actually gives a damn.

00:00:33In a country drowning in cynicism,

00:00:36he made people believe, maybe for the first time,

00:00:38that someone in Washington was actually fighting for them.

00:00:41So, please give a warm, flagrant welcome

00:00:43to the last honest man in politics,

00:00:45from Brooklyn, New York, Senator Bernie Sanders.

00:00:48Hey!

00:00:50Why don't we get you out of here, okay?

00:00:51That's it!

00:00:52It's all downhill!

00:00:53That's it!

00:00:55Okay, I have a question, okay?

00:00:57Listen, and this is probably a sensitive topic.

00:01:00It might be too soon, actually.

00:01:01It actually might be too soon, okay?

00:01:03So, if you don't want to answer, I totally understand.

00:01:06In 1958, I think you know where this is going.

00:01:10Going?

00:01:11When Walter O'Malley.

00:01:12Oh, God.

00:01:13I know, I know, this one cuts deep.

00:01:15When he moves the Brooklyn Dodgers to Los Angeles,

00:01:19and he does it for corporate greed and profits,

00:01:24and he doesn't care about the community

00:01:25that built up that team,

00:01:27it broke a young Brooklyn boy's heart, probably many.

00:01:30It seems like, and it could be a coincidence,

00:01:32that ever since then, you've had it out for the billionaires.

00:01:35Is that where it all started?

00:01:36No, but I'll tell you something, two things.

00:01:39There was a joke going around my neighborhood, Flatbush,

00:01:42and what it said,

00:01:44the three worst people in modern history

00:01:47were Hitler, Stalin, and Walter O'Malley.

00:01:50And not necessarily in that order.

00:01:55That was a joke.

00:01:56But, you know, what I did learn,

00:01:59you're kind of joking about the question,

00:02:03but I'll tell you something.

00:02:04When you grow up as a kid,

00:02:05you have a thing called the Brooklyn Dodgers, right?

00:02:07Of course.

00:02:08Brooklyn.

00:02:09Yeah.

00:02:10So, when you're a kid,

00:02:11the idea that it could be moved someplace else,

00:02:14when you're a kid, you can't,

00:02:15that it's privately owned, run for profit,

00:02:19and that it can be moved to California,

00:02:21was literally beyond your comprehension,

00:02:23beyond my comprehension.

00:02:24So, it was a real shock.

00:02:25And if you're asking me,

00:02:26did that have an impact on my political views?

00:02:29It did, actually.

00:02:30It did.

00:02:31Because the Dodgers were a cohesive force in Brooklyn,

00:02:34bringing people together.

00:02:35Jackie Robinson, et cetera, et cetera.

00:02:38So, yeah, that had an impact on me.

00:02:41Really?

00:02:41So, it all starts there.

00:02:42I don't say it all starts there,

00:02:43but I learned something from that.

00:02:47But again, I mean, you think about it.

00:02:49Something so important.

00:02:50Yeah.

00:02:51There's so many people, this guy didn't give a damn.

00:02:53To make more money, let's go to California.

00:02:55And was it as simple as that?

00:02:57Like, there was just a better deal out there?

00:02:57The Giants, sure, there was a huge market

00:02:59out there in California, right?

00:03:00Right.

00:03:01Everybody, they can make more money.

00:03:02I think he starts baseball on the West Coast, I think.

00:03:04Yeah, he and the Giants guy.

00:03:05That's right, that's right.

00:03:06And was it, I don't know.

00:03:07I mean, we don't have to get too much into it,

00:03:08but I heard Robert Moses was pushing back a lot

00:03:11on rebuilding of a stadium.

00:03:12That could be bullshit.

00:03:13I know, but.

00:03:14It doesn't matter.

00:03:14But that raises a whole other issue.

00:03:15But, you know, sports and professional sports

00:03:18and all that stuff.

00:03:19But, yeah, it was a big deal.

00:03:21That's your first exposure to corporate funds.

00:03:22And you know, what you're seeing today,

00:03:24and it's something we haven't looked at enough,

00:03:26it's something I wanna, is, it hasn't really changed.

00:03:30Right.

00:03:30You have, what is the function of professional sports?

00:03:32All of these teams are owned by billionaires.

00:03:34Yeah.

00:03:35And if Baltimore doesn't give you enough money,

00:03:36you're gonna move someplace else,

00:03:37and no matter, you know, you break the hearts of kids,

00:03:40nobody cares.

00:03:41Can I ask you a question about that?

00:03:42Like, why is it the city puts up money

00:03:45for these new stadium builds,

00:03:46and we don't get any of the equity in the team?

00:03:48That's very good.

00:03:49Well, now you're raising another question.

00:03:51I was mayor of Burlington, and Burlington, Vermont,

00:03:55and we'd love everybody to visit us in Vermont.

00:03:57And we had no professional baseball at all.

00:04:00I got elected way back in 81.

00:04:01And I said, one of the things that I wanna do

00:04:03to see if we can bring back and bring up.

00:04:03Move the Brooklyn Dodgers.

00:04:05Well, that was a little bit too ambitious.

00:04:08That's how you silence Bernie.

00:04:11But could we bring professional baseball?

00:04:14So we got to work on it.

00:04:15And we ended up getting a double, excuse me,

00:04:19I think it was a double A team,

00:04:20very good team in the Cincinnati Reds for its size.

00:04:25And we were talking hard

00:04:29about how we can municipally own it.

00:04:31And we actually-

00:04:32Oh, I love it.

00:04:33Yeah, and we would have put public money into it.

00:04:35It would have been, we would have made money

00:04:36off of it and all that.

00:04:37So we ended up losing it on the city council,

00:04:38but it was an effort that we tried to make.

00:04:40Anyhow, we brought the team in.

00:04:41It was really good for the community.

00:04:43Years later, they left it, et cetera, et cetera.

00:04:46But the idea that taxpayers are putting huge sums of money-

00:04:51Hundreds of millions of dollars.

00:04:51If school systems are falling apart,

00:04:53they're putting billions of dollars

00:04:55or huge sums of money to build these huge stadiums.

00:04:57These guys make a fortune.

00:04:59And then 10 years later, they move out.

00:05:01And there's this excuse that they all use.

00:05:03They're like, yeah, but we're providing jobs.

00:05:04It's like, yeah, so you can have a business that functions.

00:05:07You can't have a basketball team that functions

00:05:09without people working there.

00:05:10You're not doing it benevolently.

00:05:11Jobs are part-time, low-paying jobs, by the way.

00:05:14So this whole thing of professional sports

00:05:17owned by a small number of very wealthy people

00:05:19is something that-

00:05:20And!

00:05:21What's the irony of that?

00:05:21You want to go to a Red Sox?

00:05:22We go to Red Sox games.

00:05:23You go to Yankee games.

00:05:24How much does it cost to take a family?

00:05:26If you're a husband, wife, two kids-

00:05:27Hundreds of dollars.

00:05:28Yeah.

00:05:29You buy a Coca-Cola, it costs you five bucks,

00:05:3110 bucks, whatever it is.

00:05:33I mean, that's kind of crap.

00:05:34I mean, when I was a kid going to Ebbets Field in Brooklyn.

00:05:37You remember Ebbets Field?

00:05:38You know what it was?

00:05:39No, no, I'm a little bit younger than you.

00:05:40Really?

00:05:42I call myself a New Yorker.

00:05:43Ebbets Field was where the Dodgers were.

00:05:46Yes, of course, yes.

00:05:47All right, you're kidding me.

00:05:48Yes, yes, yes, absolutely.

00:05:49So we used to sneak in, I guess 60 cent,

00:05:51you know, sit in the bleachers.

00:05:52And during that period, you know,

00:05:54a family could go to a game.

00:05:56Yeah.

00:05:56And now it's, you know, pretty hard.

00:05:59Yeah.

00:05:59And that's unfortunate.

00:06:00Really, there's great athletes out there.

00:06:01People want to see them.

00:06:02Yeah.

00:06:03Can't afford it.

00:06:04And also, in that time, you saw Jackie Robinson play.

00:06:06Is that true?

00:06:07I remember, yes, I did.

00:06:08What was the energy like in the stadium

00:06:09watching Jackie Robinson play?

00:06:11What I remember about him when he was older.

00:06:13Different Brooklyn back then.

00:06:14Yeah.

00:06:15What we used to do is hang out after the games

00:06:19to see if we got autographs.

00:06:21And I remember him coming out.

00:06:23He had problems with his ankle or his foot or something.

00:06:26He came out holding his shoes.

00:06:27How'd you know it was Jackie Robinson?

00:06:29Oh, odd one.

00:06:34But the, I mean, you talk about impact as a kid.

00:06:39We used to do, this is true.

00:06:41I mean, the Dodgers were like your family.

00:06:43Yeah.

00:06:44So I can tell you today, the Dodger lineup.

00:06:48How's that?

00:06:49Wow.

00:06:50Everyone hear of Gil Hodges in first base?

00:06:52No.

00:06:53Jesus!

00:06:53What the hell do you people do?

00:06:55I told you the educational system is falling apart.

00:07:00Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on.

00:07:03All right, Gil Hodges in first base.

00:07:06Gil Hodges is a great guy, very quiet guy.

00:07:08He coached, he managed the Mets years later.

00:07:12Junior Gilliam, nothing.

00:07:15Pee-wee Reese, shortstop, all right.

00:07:16Just making guys up.

00:07:17I know that name, I know.

00:07:18Pee-wee.

00:07:19He was, I think, very friendly with Jackie Robinson, right?

00:07:22He really took him under.

00:07:22Yeah, in the movie, they probably played it up a little.

00:07:24But he came from Kentucky.

00:07:27You know, it was a Southern, at that point,

00:07:28a lot of racism, but he befriended Robinson.

00:07:31Third base was Billy Cox.

00:07:32Left field was Gina Mansky.

00:07:34Center field was Duke Snyder.

00:07:37Probably heard of Duke Snyder.

00:07:38Right field, Carl Farillo.

00:07:39Roy Campanella catching, bunch of people.

00:07:41So I can remember, now, what's my point?

00:07:43I can't remember what happened yesterday,

00:07:45but I remember that stuff from a long time ago.

00:07:47Because it was an integral part of your life.

00:07:49Yeah.

00:07:50And what you remember, all right,

00:07:52the Dodgers are two games out of first place.

00:07:54Preacher-O is pitching.

00:07:56You know, Robinson is batting, you know, 3-0-8.

00:07:59If he gets two hits, we knew what the averages were.

00:08:02You learned arithmetic through baseball.

00:08:04Yeah, absolutely.

00:08:07As a kid, most of the kids on the block

00:08:09could tell you how many games the pitchers had won.

00:08:11Who they were playing.

00:08:12I think, now, we call that autism.

00:08:14Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

00:08:20Okay, okay.

00:08:21Senator Sanders, we've got a very interesting situation,

00:08:25especially this last election.

00:08:27You've spoken about it a lot, where it's like,

00:08:29a lot of unions decide to not endorse the Democratic Party.

00:08:32Some even endorse the Republican Party.

00:08:35If the Democratic Party cannot win the votes

00:08:38of union workers, who are they for?

00:08:41Good, okay.

00:08:43All right, let's take a deep breath.

00:08:44You ready?

00:08:45Okay, I'm ready.

00:08:45All right, here we go.

00:08:46Is it a fair question?

00:08:47Yeah, it is a very fair question.

00:08:50All right, politics, you know, what politics,

00:08:53how politics is conveyed in the media is, you know,

00:08:57who's running for office, what Donald Trump said,

00:08:59and all that stuff, and that's all important.

00:09:01But if you take a deep breath,

00:09:02and you think about real politics, serious politics,

00:09:05what's it about?

00:09:06It's about three things, it seems to me.

00:09:08Number one, where are we as a country today?

00:09:11And that seems like a simple question.

00:09:13It is not a simple question.

00:09:15Okay, how did we get to where we are?

00:09:17And equally important, where do we want to go

00:09:20in the future, right?

00:09:21Reasonable questions?

00:09:22Absolutely.

00:09:23All right, Andrew, where are we today?

00:09:24We're in New York City, New York.

00:09:26What do you mean, where are we politically?

00:09:29No, where are we as a nation?

00:09:31What are the things that we should be looking at?

00:09:33If I asked you, how are we doing as a nation?

00:09:35I would say we're struggling financially.

00:09:37That's right.

00:09:39Quality of life.

00:09:40That's exactly right.

00:09:41And I think that we are disillusioned

00:09:43with the institutions that should be supporting

00:09:45and protecting us.

00:09:46Excellent, all right, so that's right, all that's right.

00:09:48So to start off with, in one sense,

00:09:50we are the richest country in the history of the world,

00:09:52right, we have enormous wealth.

00:09:54Is that wealth, does that wealth apply

00:09:58to the vast majority of the people?

00:10:00Absolutely not.

00:10:01No, so unbelievably, and nobody talks about this,

00:10:03you ask me, we started off in the Democratic Party,

00:10:06the first thing you gotta do is be honest with people

00:10:08and say, look, this is where we are at,

00:10:11we can blame whoever you want,

00:10:12but this is where we're at, all right,

00:10:14then acknowledge it.

00:10:16So you're living in a country where 60%,

00:10:20let me underline that, 60% of people

00:10:22live paycheck to paycheck, got it?

00:10:24I grew up in a family that lived paycheck to paycheck,

00:10:28all right?

00:10:29Where paycheck to paycheck is living under enormous stress.

00:10:33How am I gonna pay the rent?

00:10:34What happens if my landlord raises my rent?

00:10:36What happens if my kid gets sick

00:10:37and I can't afford to take him to the doctor?

00:10:39You know, what happens if my car breaks down?

00:10:41You know that significant numbers of people

00:10:44in this country, you have money, you don't think about it,

00:10:47but if you don't have any money,

00:10:48and your car breaks down, and it's a $1,000 bill

00:10:51to get it fixed, and you can't afford it,

00:10:54you tell me what happens, all right?

00:10:56Bottom line is you got millions and millions of people,

00:11:00working class people, lower income people,

00:11:02struggling to put food on the table, okay?

00:11:06That is the first profound reality.

00:11:08And the question we've got to ask is why is that

00:11:10in the richest country on earth?

00:11:11All right, that's number one.

00:11:13Number two, you have a healthcare system.

00:11:18How's the healthcare?

00:11:18You tell me.

00:11:19Got a great healthcare system in America?

00:11:22Well, what do you think?

00:11:23I mean, if you can afford it, it's pretty good.

00:11:24That's right.

00:11:25I think that's a better way to look at it.

00:11:26That's exactly right, all right?

00:11:28If you got the money, you got the best healthcare system

00:11:30in the world, but most people don't.

00:11:33How many nations do not guarantee healthcare

00:11:36to all people as a human right?

00:11:37Do you guys know?

00:11:38How many?

00:11:40One major country, you're living in it.

00:11:43So here's the insanity.

00:11:45We are spending twice as much per person on healthcare

00:11:48as most of the European countries.

00:11:50Guarantee free healthcare, not to correct you,

00:11:52but we won't refuse care if you need it.

00:11:56Oh, wait, we will.

00:11:57Well, it's a little bit more subtle than that.

00:11:59Yeah, all right, let's say you have a $10,000 deductible.

00:12:03Okay, not unusual.

00:12:05Yeah.

00:12:05Okay, you get sick.

00:12:07What do you do when you don't have any money?

00:12:10You go to the doctor?

00:12:11I go to the emergency room.

00:12:12I say, I'm sick.

00:12:13Yeah, but you go to the emergency room,

00:12:15but you're not like, it's not an emergency.

00:12:16They'll say, well-

00:12:17I'm just a little bit sick.

00:12:18I just avoid it.

00:12:19That starts to fester, it gets worse.

00:12:21You got it.

00:12:21And that actually probably causes more strain

00:12:24on the programs.

00:12:25It does, and you know what else it results in?

00:12:28The study from Yale was that 68,000 people a year die,

00:12:31precisely.

00:12:31You go talk to the doctor.

00:12:33Next time you go to a doctor, say,

00:12:34are people coming into your office

00:12:36much sicker than they should be?

00:12:38Yeah.

00:12:39And the answer is, yes, they are.

00:12:39And that's just avoiding copays, avoiding-

00:12:41Exactly, exactly.

00:12:43Okay, fair enough.

00:12:43So people do die by the large numbers.

00:12:46What about our educational system?

00:12:48Psychologists tell us that zero through four,

00:12:51most important years of emotional

00:12:53and intellectual development.

00:12:54Makes sense, right?

00:12:55Yeah.

00:12:56Okay.

00:12:57So we must have a great childcare system, right?

00:12:58Because we love our kids.

00:13:00We nurture our kids.

00:13:01We pay childcare professionals.

00:13:04Really, we appreciate them and respect them.

00:13:06We pay childcare workers McDonald's wages.

00:13:09Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:13:10It's, yeah, it's shocking.

00:13:12It's also shocking how much competition there is

00:13:14to get your kid into like a favorable preschool.

00:13:17Right.

00:13:18Like you have to start lobbying these preschools

00:13:21my daughter's 15 months.

00:13:22And already now you're like-

00:13:23He's like a pharma company to get his kid in there.

00:13:25Exactly, like you're kind of walking in,

00:13:27you're meeting people, they're exchanging pleasantries.

00:13:29And it's all under this guise of,

00:13:31I hope they accept my kid.

00:13:33Right, because you have a massive shortage.

00:13:35Yeah.

00:13:36And if people don't have any money, it is really difficult.

00:13:38And so I don't know what it costs here in New York City.

00:13:42You know, in Vermont, it costs 15, $20,000.

00:13:45So, you know, just-

00:13:46Imagine you have two kids, forget it.

00:13:47That's right, exactly.

00:13:48Forget it, yeah.

00:13:49Again, take a deep breath and say, okay,

00:13:51if we as a nation understand

00:13:54that that's the future of America.

00:13:55Yep.

00:13:56We want the best.

00:13:57You would say, okay,

00:13:58we're gonna have really great teachers for them.

00:14:00We'll treat these teachers with respect, pay them well.

00:14:02They're doing really important work.

00:14:03Taking care of your daughter is important stuff.

00:14:06Agree.

00:14:07We don't.

00:14:08Public schools, I was talking to a principal

00:14:11in Vermont, in Southern Vermont.

00:14:13They're starting teachers off at $32,000 a year.

00:14:17Hmm.

00:14:17So kids, young people graduate school in debt.

00:14:22We're not getting the best and the brightest people.

00:14:25Do we respect?

00:14:26You tell me, do we respect education in this country?

00:14:29No, we don't, really.

00:14:31What do you mean by respect it?

00:14:32That we say, man, you're gonna be a teacher.

00:14:35Oh, educators, I don't think educators

00:14:38get close to enough respect.

00:14:39We give them a lot of platitudes.

00:14:40Yeah.

00:14:41Oh, how noble of you.

00:14:42You say we respect them.

00:14:42But we don't treat them with respect.

00:14:43We don't feel the same way

00:14:44that they're some finance bro or something like that.

00:14:47Exactly.

00:14:48Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:14:48Just to that point, take a look at it.

00:14:50Harvard College, one of the best colleges in America,

00:14:53something like 5% of the graduates will go into education

00:14:57and they're not going into public education.

00:14:58Of course not, yeah.

00:14:5950% will go to Wall Street.

00:15:01They'll go to consulting.

00:15:03You make a great point, though.

00:15:04If college loans are so expensive,

00:15:06they don't even have a choice to go into education.

00:15:09Exactly.

00:15:10So is there some sort of system built in

00:15:12where if you choose to go into education

00:15:15that there's a way that the-

00:15:17The loan will be forgiven.

00:15:18Something like that.

00:15:19Yeah, they're all small programs.

00:15:20They have something like that.

00:15:22Teacher America.

00:15:23But that's a good idea.

00:15:23And again, I'm not making this up,

00:15:24so I'm sure there was some system like that.

00:15:25But I imagine maybe back in your day,

00:15:28now, that there was a version where highly educated,

00:15:33not highly educated in terms of a master's program,

00:15:35but people that went to elite universities

00:15:36before they went and got their master's

00:15:38or their doctorate spent some time educating.

00:15:40Was that commonplace?

00:15:42I'm not sure.

00:15:43I don't recall that.

00:15:45But-

00:15:46But if there was a way to incentivize that,

00:15:47that might be-

00:15:48Right, of course.

00:15:48That's right.

00:15:49But what we have to do,

00:15:50I'll give you an example.

00:15:52And what also bothers me is we don't look at what goes on

00:15:56around the rest of the world.

00:15:58We kind of think that we're an island unto itself.

00:16:03What we should be doing is what is working

00:16:05around the rest of the world?

00:16:06So you take a country like Finland,

00:16:10to be a teacher is a big deal in Finland.

00:16:12Wow, you're a teacher.

00:16:13It's like being a doctor in this country.

00:16:15People respect them, they're well-paid,

00:16:16they have a lot of autonomy, et cetera.

00:16:20But all that I'm saying here is that

00:16:24if you look at the fundamental institutions in America,

00:16:29healthcare, education, childcare,

00:16:36distribution of wealth in America,

00:16:39we are not doing well.

00:16:41And it's important that we acknowledge that.

00:16:42So, I mean, nobody, you talk about

00:16:45your very kind introductions and talking about things

00:16:48that others don't talk about.

00:16:50How many people will talk about the reality

00:16:51that Elon Musk himself owns more wealth

00:16:54than the bottom 52% of American households?

00:16:58Is that a moral issue?

00:16:59Are we comfortable with that?

00:17:02It's a simple question.

00:17:03And there are some people who say,

00:17:04hey, yeah, that's okay.

00:17:06It's a dog-eat-dog world.

00:17:07Elon's a brilliant guy, he's a hard-working guy.

00:17:09Other billionaires start their own companies.

00:17:11They're really bold and brave.

00:17:13Fine, they deserve it.

00:17:14And if you are trying to get by on $40,000 a year,

00:17:17well, tough crap.

00:17:18How do you think Elon feels about it?

00:17:22I don't know him.

00:17:23I've only talked to him many years ago,

00:17:24so I don't know him personally.

00:17:25But I'll tell you what I do think.

00:17:27I think there is a new breed of uber-capitalists out there

00:17:33who really believe, and they write about this as well,

00:17:39who really believe that they are superior human beings.

00:17:41Foo!

00:17:42You know what I'm telling you?

00:17:43This is the quote-unquote high-IQ guys who say,

00:17:47look, we work hard, we're smart,

00:17:49we have started these businesses.

00:17:51To the victor go the spoils.

00:17:52Not only that.

00:17:54I think that's yes.

00:17:56It's a dog-eat-dog world.

00:17:58I made it, you didn't make it.

00:18:00Hey, man, that's the way life goes.

00:18:02It's deeper than that.

00:18:04You have some writing on the right, on the far right,

00:18:06which really diminishes democracy,

00:18:11and that really the smart and the wealthy

00:18:14and the powerful have the right to rule.

00:18:17So this is not just, oh, I want a tax break.

00:18:19There's nothing new about that.

00:18:21This is, we have the right.

00:18:22It's the divine, you know,

00:18:23it used to be the divine rights of kings.

00:18:25Manifest destiny.

00:18:26Exactly, all right.

00:18:28Back in the 19th century, the 1850s,

00:18:31I am the king.

00:18:31God made my family king,

00:18:35and sorry, you're starving to death,

00:18:36but that's the way life goes.

00:18:38God told me my family rules.

00:18:41There was some of that.

00:18:41So there's something about this.

00:18:43It's just quite interesting that I've seen lately,

00:18:45and it's actually not lately.

00:18:46There is a trend with the ultra wealthy,

00:18:49which is upon their death,

00:18:52a lot of them have decided to give away their money, right?

00:18:56Some of their money.

00:18:57Or some, some, okay.

00:18:58Some of the most prolific, right?

00:19:00Or as they get closer to death,

00:19:02they're like, our goal is to give away all our money.

00:19:04Okay, which seems to tell me

00:19:07that they think that there is an issue

00:19:09with them having all that money.

00:19:11If they truly felt entitled to it,

00:19:13like, it seems to me,

00:19:14it's an admission that they agree with you.

00:19:16They're like, it's kind of wrong

00:19:18that we should just keep all this in our family.

00:19:21We should probably not have it.

00:19:22Now, they're not,

00:19:23it's almost like Benjamin Franklin

00:19:24freeing his slaves on his death.

00:19:26He's like, you know, he's like,

00:19:28this is wrong,

00:19:29but I don't want to leave it until, you know,

00:19:31I might need some shit and my back hurts,

00:19:33but what do I do?

00:19:34So when you see billionaires do that, right?

00:19:38Or this elite class that you're talking about,

00:19:40do that, is there a part of you that goes,

00:19:42you're getting it.

00:19:43Why don't you do that maybe 40 years earlier?

00:19:46No. Okay.

00:19:48Look, I just,

00:19:51I mean, these guys are very competitive.

00:19:53They're very smart.

00:19:54They're very innovative,

00:19:57hardworking.

00:19:59And I really think it's very competitive.

00:20:01And I think they want it all.

00:20:03I really do.

00:20:04And I think what is,

00:20:04if you stop for a moment,

00:20:07you know, and, you know,

00:20:09I hope we can talk a little bit

00:20:10about a corrupt campaign finances.

00:20:11Please. Yes.

00:20:12All right.

00:20:13All right.

00:20:14Getting back to the Democrats and the Republicans

00:20:15and all that stuff.

00:20:16Understand, I mean, I'm in the middle of it.

00:20:18I work in Washington, DC.

00:20:21So you just using Musk again, as an example,

00:20:23he's only one.

00:20:24I don't mean to pick on Mr. Musk,

00:20:25but the guy contributes

00:20:28because of a broken and corrupt campaign finance system,

00:20:31which as a result of Citizens United,

00:20:33Supreme Court decision,

00:20:34if you're familiar with that,

00:20:35allows billionaires to start super PACs.

00:20:38Can you really quickly just tell the audience

00:20:40exactly what it is?

00:20:41Because I feel like we hear these words

00:20:42like Citizens United and a lot of people,

00:20:43like we just-

00:20:44And super PACs.

00:20:45Yes, we just kind of pretend that we know what it is.

00:20:47Okay.

00:20:50We have the first amendment

00:20:52that says you have freedom of speech.

00:20:53Of course.

00:20:54Okay.

00:20:56So wealthy individuals in a case called Citizens United,

00:21:00I don't remember all the details,

00:21:01basically said, look, we had at that point,

00:21:05Citizens United, I think is 15, 20 years,

00:21:08that decision from the Supreme Court,

00:21:09Supreme Court decision.

00:21:11So people go into the court and say,

00:21:12look, I have a first amendment right

00:21:15to tell the people of America

00:21:17how I feel about an issue or a candidate.

00:21:20Absolutely.

00:21:21I don't like Andrew

00:21:22because I don't want to spend $20 million

00:21:24on television ads telling people what a jerky is.

00:21:27Okay.

00:21:28Making me feel like Jamal Bowman.

00:21:30All right.

00:21:30That's another story.

00:21:31All right.

00:21:33And the Supreme Court says, no,

00:21:35we have campaign finance.

00:21:37There's campaign finance law,

00:21:40which limits the amount of money

00:21:41you can spend on a campaign.

00:21:43So there's already a law in place.

00:21:44There's already a law in place.

00:21:45There's already legislation that you cannot do.

00:21:46That's what Citizens United did.

00:21:48It said the Supreme Court ruled

00:21:51that billionaires, that advertising is freedom of speech.

00:21:55And I can, you can't limit my speech.

00:21:58So if I want to spend $100 million on TV ads,

00:22:01I have the right to do it.

00:22:02They say, you're right.

00:22:04So the issue is democracy versus billionaires

00:22:06being able to spend unlimited sums of money.

00:22:09Supreme Court went with that.

00:22:10And then the form it took was what's called a super PAC.

00:22:15You saw their organization, Americans for Freedom.

00:22:18Okay.

00:22:18Billionaires can put as much money as they want into that.

00:22:21That organization then runs ads on television.

00:22:24It does political stuff.

00:22:25That's what it's about.

00:22:26So bottom line though, most importantly,

00:22:29is if you are a billionaire,

00:22:32you can put as much money as you want into a super PAC.

00:22:36And in Musk's case, he spent $270 million

00:22:42to help Donald Trump get elected president.

00:22:44Do Democrats have billionaires putting money

00:22:46into super PACs?

00:22:47Absolutely.

00:22:49What does that mean in real life?

00:22:50This is what it means.

00:22:51Right now, we're dealing with a bill

00:22:53called the Reconciliation Bill.

00:22:55It's a fancy Washington term for a very big bill,

00:22:58which will have a lot of stuff in it.

00:23:00In any case, if a Republican stands up and says,

00:23:03you know what, in the House of Representatives,

00:23:05I don't like this bill,

00:23:06because it's giving tax breaks to very wealthy people

00:23:09and it's going to cut Medicaid and cut nutrition programs.

00:23:12It's a bad bill.

00:23:13What do you think happens the day after

00:23:15that Republican stands up and says he opposes it?

00:23:18The super PACs organize and they primary out

00:23:20those politicians.

00:23:21You got it, exactly.

00:23:22Now, and how effective is that?

00:23:23It is enormously effective.

00:23:25If you have, sure.

00:23:26Right now, you're a Republican.

00:23:27Yeah.

00:23:28You got to-

00:23:29Wait, what?

00:23:30No, I don't mean you.

00:23:31I mean in general.

00:23:32It's going to go viral.

00:23:32All right.

00:23:33So you have two elements.

00:23:38Trump is enormously popular within the Republican base.

00:23:42Elon Musk has unlimited sums of money, right?

00:23:45Double whammy.

00:23:46Double whammy.

00:23:47So it is very hard for any Republican to sustain that.

00:23:49To stand up and authentically speak their mind.

00:23:52All right, guys, let's take a break for a second.

00:23:53I'm talking about these billionaires, you know.

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00:26:11This one in particular.

00:26:12Let's get back to the show.

00:26:14Give you another example, because I don't want to,

00:26:15I'm an independent, right?

00:26:16Caucus with the Democrats.

00:26:17Democrats are better than the Republicans to my mind,

00:26:20but Democrats, all right?

00:26:22I happen to believe that providing more military aid

00:26:27to Netanyahu's extreme right-wing government

00:26:31to do the horrible things that are going on in Gaza

00:26:33right now, as you may know, as we speak, it's horrible.

00:26:36Absolutely.

00:26:36Children are starving.

00:26:37Absolutely.

00:26:39And growing and all that stuff.

00:26:40All right.

00:26:41I introduced legislation to say,

00:26:43we're going to block the sale

00:26:44of certain military weaponry to Israel.

00:26:47I got 15 Democrats to support me.

00:26:50I got zero Republicans.

00:26:52Why do you think more Democrats didn't support me?

00:26:56Because if Democrats support me,

00:26:57they will have to take on AIPAC.

00:26:58You mentioned Jamal Bowman?

00:26:59Yeah.

00:27:00Well, that's what you're talking about.

00:27:02What'd they spend, like 15 or 20 million

00:27:03to get him out of there?

00:27:04This is up in Westchester too.

00:27:06You got him?

00:27:07Bush in Missouri, St. Louis was defeated.

00:27:12A woman in the state of Washington,

00:27:14Pramila Jayapal's sister ran.

00:27:17So if you want to speak out against Netanyahu's government

00:27:20and oppose military sales, AIPAC,

00:27:23which is also funded by billionaires

00:27:25who support both Democrats and Republicans,

00:27:27so it will go after.

00:27:28How can they do this effectively?

00:27:30Like how can they sway a vote

00:27:32if the people don't support the idea?

00:27:35You know how you do it?

00:27:37This is rather amazing.

00:27:38Great question.

00:27:39You don't talk about the issue.

00:27:40Oh, you make that person so radioactive.

00:27:44They didn't talk.

00:27:45They went after Bowman.

00:27:46I was up in Westchester.

00:27:47Now you're undermining the democratic process.

00:27:49I was up in Westchester campaigning for Bowman.

00:27:53And I supported Cori Bush as well.

00:27:55To the best of my knowledge, and I'm 99% sure I'm right,

00:27:58they didn't say one word about Israel.

00:28:00The argument was he's a bad Democrat

00:28:03or whatever the usual negative advertising.

00:28:06So this is quite interesting because if a group

00:28:09like Ivo SuperPAC was honest

00:28:12about what they were raising against,

00:28:13for example, they spent that 20 million

00:28:15specifically defending their position on Israel,

00:28:19I wonder if we would be more amenable to that

00:28:22because that is the issue at hand

00:28:24instead of using funding to make this person radioactive,

00:28:28which they might not exactly be,

00:28:30and undermining, it is duplicitous.

00:28:32You're undermining the people

00:28:33and that's where you remove, wow.

00:28:36That's a very good point, all right.

00:28:37I mean, I think they should not have

00:28:39unlimited amounts of money, but your point is,

00:28:41hey, if that's what your goal is, be honest about it.

00:28:44And I say this with you because you raise money

00:28:46not from a few billionaires, but like you guys raise,

00:28:48what is it, Sunrise and then Democrat Justice

00:28:52or Democracy Just, there are these groups,

00:28:55they're a little different than SuperPACs,

00:28:56but they are raising money on a grassroots level,

00:28:59but you are being honest

00:29:00about what you're raising money for.

00:29:02Exactly, you're right, so your point is right.

00:29:04If somebody says, look, I love De Niro,

00:29:06I think they're doing a good job,

00:29:08you oppose him and I'm gonna oppose you for that reason,

00:29:11let's be honest about it.

00:29:12Exactly.

00:29:13But you know what, I think one of the reasons

00:29:14they don't do that, you know why?

00:29:15Because it wouldn't be supported.

00:29:16That's right.

00:29:17So is there any solution

00:29:19beyond getting Citizens United overturned

00:29:22by another Supreme Court?

00:29:23That's a great question, man.

00:29:24Thank you, you're asking really good questions.

00:29:26We're working on it right now.

00:29:28And here is, without going too much into the weeds,

00:29:32we need to end Citizens United,

00:29:34that's not gonna happen tomorrow.

00:29:36But what you can do is within the Democratic Party

00:29:39or the Republican Party, you can have rules that says,

00:29:43you wanna be the candidate of the Democratic Party?

00:29:45Well, guess what?

00:29:47You tell, and this is again tricky,

00:29:50you tell that you announced very clearly

00:29:53you do not want any SuperPACs supporting you.

00:29:56And by the way, if SuperPACs support you

00:29:59for every dollar they put in,

00:30:01we're gonna put another dollar in supporting you.

00:30:03There are things you can do.

00:30:05We're gonna run ads.

00:30:06We're gonna offset it.

00:30:08Sorry, I have to ask this.

00:30:09I'm sorry, I hate to interrupt you.

00:30:10We have a question we wanna ask

00:30:12about what happened to you in 2016

00:30:13with this Bernie Bros movement,

00:30:15where your followers are seeing

00:30:18they have a racism problem, a misogyny problem.

00:30:20Do you think that's a SuperPAC thing behind that?

00:30:22No, it was the Democratic establishment, that was the.

00:30:25Oh, wow, okay.

00:30:26You know, that was just, they were sitting there,

00:30:28we had a lot of young people, we had people of color,

00:30:30and they create this kind of myth

00:30:32with the help of the corporate media and all that stuff.

00:30:34You know, it's kind of interesting to that note

00:30:37is during this election, the podcast space,

00:30:40which the Democrats largely avoided,

00:30:43they feel had some influence in the election,

00:30:46and they started to label us the podcast bros

00:30:51and said that we were sexist and we were racist and bigoted.

00:30:55It's almost like it's the exact same strategy

00:30:57to get you out of there.

00:30:58Yeah, that's what the liberal elite China does.

00:31:01They run away, look, getting, again,

00:31:07I would hope that everybody who's watching the program,

00:31:10is that we as a nation have got to end

00:31:11all forms of bigotry, right?

00:31:13Yes.

00:31:13That I start off as a basic assumption.

00:31:16Unless it's to your close friends, right?

00:31:18Yeah, well, it's racism, it's sexism,

00:31:21homophobia, xenophobia, whatever it is.

00:31:24But, and you know, liberal Democrats

00:31:26talk about that all the time.

00:31:28And then you get to what we call identity politics.

00:31:31You're black, you're wonderful, you're tremendous,

00:31:33you're gay, you're the greatest human being on earth.

00:31:36And rather than say, what do you stand for?

00:31:41Exactly.

00:31:41You're gay, that's fine, who cares?

00:31:43But what do you stand for?

00:31:45You know, is every gay person brilliant

00:31:46and wonderful and great?

00:31:47No, of course not, everybody's a human being.

00:31:50So the issue is what you stand for,

00:31:52which gets you back to what we discussed earlier,

00:31:54class politics in the sense of which side are you on?

00:31:59Are you gonna stand with working families?

00:32:02Are you gonna raise the minimum wage

00:32:04to a living wage or not?

00:32:06Are you gonna fight to guarantee healthcare

00:32:09to all people or not?

00:32:10Are you gonna demand that the wealthiest people

00:32:12stop paying their fair share of taxes or not?

00:32:15Those are the issues.

00:32:16And no one cares what color you are,

00:32:18you know, what your gender is, et cetera, et cetera.

00:32:21I'm sorry, I do feel like vowing

00:32:22to stop taking super PAC money is a great first step,

00:32:26but also being an honest politician.

00:32:29You put up a bill to stop the sale of weapons to Israel

00:32:32and there's no amount of money AIPAC can spend

00:32:35to not get you reelected.

00:32:37And I feel if we had more honest politicians, okay, then-

00:32:41Courageous ones.

00:32:41Yeah.

00:32:42You're right, this is a very, this is a good discussion.

00:32:45Why are you shocked?

00:32:46I'm shocked because I do a lot of this stuff, right?

00:32:50You're asking questions.

00:32:51Questions that are not often asked.

00:32:54This episode has been promoted

00:32:55by Walter O'Malley's Foundation.

00:32:57All right, it's a painful issue.

00:33:01I mean, I deal with it every day in Washington.

00:33:06This is the, you're running for office.

00:33:09If you in your heart understand what's going on

00:33:13in Gaza right now, and again,

00:33:14it's almost painful to talk about it.

00:33:16The United States is complicit in the starvation

00:33:19of children as we speak right this moment, okay?

00:33:23Mass malnutrition, et cetera.

00:33:25And you say, that's wrong, man.

00:33:27And I'm not gonna give Netanyahu another nickel,

00:33:29but I know that the day I say that,

00:33:32AIPAC is gonna pour a huge amount of money.

00:33:33So what's the choice you have?

00:33:36The choice you say you have is, okay,

00:33:39they're gonna throw a lot of money at me,

00:33:41but I'm gonna make this a major campaign issue.

00:33:43Ooh.

00:33:44I ain't gonna run away from it.

00:33:45Yeah.

00:33:46What do we stand for as a nation?

00:33:47And I'll tell you something,

00:33:48I'll go back to the Democratic Party.

00:33:50What the Democratic establishment was like,

00:33:52well, Gaza, yeah, it's an issue out there.

00:33:55But it's not the main issue.

00:33:57It's not the pocketbook issues,

00:33:59more important, healthcare is more important.

00:34:01But you know what?

00:34:02I'll tell you this is my own view,

00:34:04is what people have a sense consciously and unconsciously.

00:34:07If you are turning your back on starving children in Gaza,

00:34:11why the hell am I gonna trust you on anything?

00:34:12It's a great point.

00:34:13Is that a fair point?

00:34:14I think it's a very fair point.

00:34:16I think if you turn your back on starvation

00:34:18in general, especially if you're complicit in it,

00:34:21I think that's where a lot of,

00:34:22at least voters feel like there is some sort of separation.

00:34:25And if you make them realize that there isn't, right?

00:34:28If we are protecting or funding

00:34:30or rewarding this in any way,

00:34:32then you are complicit.

00:34:33But I think voters feel like they're too derivative

00:34:35from it.

00:34:36They're like, oh, that's not exactly what I'm voting for.

00:34:37And I do think, not to undermine those other issues,

00:34:40but like, I do think the, what is it?

00:34:41The kitchen table issues,

00:34:43or I think those are incredibly important.

00:34:45And I think the more that people are struggling

00:34:47internally in our country,

00:34:48the less of a concern we have externally.

00:34:52So it is a tough balance.

00:34:54If you make your entire campaign about Gaza,

00:34:57the people in whatever small area that you represent

00:35:01will go, hey, listen, that's horrible.

00:35:02It's happening over here.

00:35:03But we're struggling too.

00:35:04So don't forget about us.

00:35:05You got it.

00:35:06You got it right.

00:35:07So how do you balance those two?

00:35:08Well, that's what politics is about.

00:35:09I mean, you may-

00:35:10I feel like you've done it well.

00:35:11I feel like you talk way more about internal issues

00:35:13than external ones.

00:35:15I do.

00:35:16Gaza then becomes a moral issue

00:35:18that you cannot run away from.

00:35:20But at the end of the day,

00:35:23we have to ask ourselves, why are we are where we are?

00:35:28And it's a funny thing.

00:35:29I was talking to my staff when we were driving in today

00:35:32and reviewing, there was a, I think it was Pew, P-E-W.

00:35:36They do these-

00:35:37The polls?

00:35:38Yeah, they do things.

00:35:39And they asked the question.

00:35:39I may be a little bit wrong here, but they said,

00:35:42they do it and they say,

00:35:43are you better off today than somebody in your situation,

00:35:46middle-class, whatever you are, or 40 years ago?

00:35:50That's the question.

00:35:50Yeah.

00:35:51What do you think the answer was?

00:35:52This is an insane statistic.

00:35:53I've seen this research.

00:35:55They're like, that people are making inflation adjusted

00:35:58the same wage that they were making 50 years ago.

00:36:00I don't mean that.

00:36:01I don't even mean statistically.

00:36:02I'm going beyond that.

00:36:04Are you better off than somebody in your condition?

00:36:05How do you feel?

00:36:06Do you think somebody in your condition

00:36:08was living better 40 years ago

00:36:09or are you living better today?

00:36:11I think the average person would say no.

00:36:13That's right.

00:36:14And that's an astonishing-

00:36:15All right, so let's go through the economics of it.

00:36:19Then we'll go through the broader issue.

00:36:21Economics, this is an amazing fact.

00:36:24And again, it's something that people don't talk about

00:36:26because you've got a lot of,

00:36:28the Republicans want to make change.

00:36:31It's almost always the wrong kind of change.

00:36:33And the Democrats want to maintain the status quo,

00:36:35which is unsustainable.

00:36:36Yeah.

00:36:37That's what the choices that people have.

00:36:39Yeah.

00:36:40But sometimes if the status quo is horrible,

00:36:44any change looks better.

00:36:47And I think that's-

00:36:47Which is why Donald Trump is the president.

00:36:49That's what I think a lot of Democrats don't understand.

00:36:50Like, you've been very critical.

00:36:52We're lifelong, I can't speak for everybody,

00:36:54but like I grew up in New York City,

00:36:55I'm a lifelong Democrat.

00:36:56And we were very critical of the Democratic establishment.

00:36:58And it was through the lens of,

00:37:00hey, you're not addressing the concern to the people.

00:37:03And by doing that, we were framed in a way that I think,

00:37:06and we continue to be framed in a way

00:37:07I think it was very unfair.

00:37:08Oh, you don't know nothing about being framed.

00:37:10Yeah.

00:37:11Yeah.

00:37:12Yeah.

00:37:13It's a refusal.

00:37:14I don't feel sorry if you don't feel sorry.

00:37:15No, no, no, no.

00:37:16No, no, no.

00:37:17No, no, no.

00:37:18It's just a refusal to look in the mirror.

00:37:19That's exactly it.

00:37:20Yeah.

00:37:21All right, here's a fact.

00:37:22This is an astounding fact.

00:37:23Nobody talks about it.

00:37:24And this is the other thing.

00:37:27More important than anything else is people want to say,

00:37:29do you know what is going on in my life?

00:37:31Yeah.

00:37:31And if you don't talk about that reality,

00:37:33no one's going to trust you at all.

00:37:34Yeah.

00:37:35All right, fact.

00:37:35But let's call people Latinx, Bernie.

00:37:38That's right.

00:37:39That's right.

00:37:40That's the issue.

00:37:41All right.

00:37:42Over the last 52 years, I may be off a little bit here,

00:37:45but more or less I'm right.

00:37:47Over the last 52 years,

00:37:49there's been an explosion in technology, right?

00:37:52This stuff that we're looking at did not exist.

00:37:54Every worker in America is more productive, correct?

00:37:56Absolutely.

00:37:57Okay.

00:37:58Computers, et cetera.

00:38:00How much have real inflation accounted for wages increased

00:38:04in that 52 year time?

00:38:05Obviously with all of that,

00:38:07worker productivity increasing.

00:38:09Nothing.

00:38:09We must be making a lot more money, right?

00:38:11Nothing.

00:38:12Zero.

00:38:12Yeah.

00:38:13In fact, there's an argument it's a little bit less

00:38:14in real housing costs, health care costs.

00:38:16Because TVs are cheaper.

00:38:18You think that you're living a more luxurious lifestyle.

00:38:20Take a deep breath about that fact.

00:38:21What does it say?

00:38:24Meanwhile, during that same period of time,

00:38:27there was a massive, according to Rand Corporation,

00:38:30not a socialist organization,

00:38:32there was a massive transfer of wealth

00:38:35from the bottom 90% to the top 1%.

00:38:37But Bernie, surely they're paying taxes

00:38:40on all that new profits they're making, right?

00:38:42Right.

00:38:43But that is getting back to this important issue,

00:38:46which I kind of started, what is reality?

00:38:48So if you're the average worker out there,

00:38:51you're seeing people on the top getting phenomenally rich.

00:38:54You're no better off.

00:38:55And by the way, the likelihood is your kid

00:38:58is gonna be worse off than you are, right?

00:38:59Yeah.

00:39:00That's a tough reality.

00:39:02Why is that?

00:39:03Who the hell is he even talking about?

00:39:05A, why is that?

00:39:07And B, what the hell do we do about it?

00:39:09And I think that was the appeal of Trump

00:39:10is he appeared to be talking to us.

00:39:12Exactly.

00:39:13Whereas Democrats are kind of condescending

00:39:14and ignoring it.

00:39:15All right.

00:39:16Essentially, Democrats say, status quo is working okay.

00:39:20We're gonna tinker around the edges

00:39:21to make a little bit of a change here.

00:39:22Trump says, the whole goddamn system is broken.

00:39:25But he's like, I will fix it.

00:39:27Well, his solutions will make it worse.

00:39:29But he at least acknowledged that the system is broken.

00:39:32Democrats often don't.

00:39:33They don't acknowledge it.

00:39:34And there's a lot of finger wagging,

00:39:36or at least recently.

00:39:37I didn't feel that when I was growing up.

00:39:38But at least recently, there's a lot of finger wagging.

00:39:39And then there's almost like this detachment

00:39:41from working class people, which is really sad

00:39:43because you'll see them echo certain sentiments.

00:39:46They'll be like, look, look at the Biden stock market.

00:39:48And it's like, guys, 50% of Americans

00:39:50aren't even invested in the fucking stock market.

00:39:53Like, you're so detached from working class people,

00:39:56you don't even know the talking points

00:39:58to make them feel good about the economy.

00:40:00So how do you-

00:40:01Yeah, it's like, so what happened?

00:40:03How do we get here with the Democrat establishment?

00:40:06It's a great question.

00:40:07Well, and the answer is that we do know.

00:40:09And that is during the 70s, 60s.

00:40:13Democrats called out that you could raise a lot of money

00:40:14from wealthy people.

00:40:17And that, so it's, and it gets back to campaign financing

00:40:24and all that stuff.

00:40:25So you got a Democratic establishment now,

00:40:27which is funded by wealthy people.

00:40:29You have consultants who are really way out of touch

00:40:32with reality, who make a whole lot of money in campaigns.

00:40:36And working class is ignored.

00:40:38Donald Trump comes along and says, you know,

00:40:40I care about you, which was a lie.

00:40:42So the-

00:40:44I don't know if that's a lie.

00:40:45I'd give pushback on that.

00:40:47I think that it has to be proven that it's a lie.

00:40:50All right, I'll prove it.

00:40:51Yes, thank you.

00:40:55And you're right.

00:40:55I could look through rose colored glasses,

00:40:57but the idea, I think that when people are struggling,

00:41:00anybody who goes, hey, I'm gonna help you out.

00:41:02Like I'm sure when Obama, I remember Obama,

00:41:04I remember the impact of Obama.

00:41:05Change.

00:41:06He ran on reform and he ran on hope, right?

00:41:08Yes.

00:41:09He ran on this idea of we're gonna make it better for you

00:41:12instead of, Kamala seemed to run on this idea like,

00:41:14hey, it's good.

00:41:15We're gonna keep doing the exact same thing,

00:41:17which is a losing strategy.

00:41:19You've got it.

00:41:19So-

00:41:20That was her bloody consult.

00:41:21I mean, I know Kamala.

00:41:22She's a friend.

00:41:23She's very smart.

00:41:24That was what her bloody consultants told her to say.

00:41:28I begged them.

00:41:28I'm just between you and me.

00:41:29Why can't she push back?

00:41:30Wow.

00:41:31You're right.

00:41:32Look, there's no argument.

00:41:33And this is the problem I think a lot of voters had

00:41:34is like they didn't even know if it was her.

00:41:36We didn't even know if Biden was president.

00:41:38We didn't even know if these were her talking points.

00:41:40And we felt that over the last four elections,

00:41:43Democrats, we felt,

00:41:45that we didn't have a say on who could be president.

00:41:49We talk a lot about the Republicans being autocrats

00:41:52and oligarchs and taking over democracy.

00:41:54But from the Democrat perspective,

00:41:57and I'm a lifelong Democrat,

00:41:58I felt like the Democratic Party

00:42:00completely removed the democratic process

00:42:02from its constituents.

00:42:04And I think they need to have some accountability of that.

00:42:07No argument here.

00:42:08I don't need it from you.

00:42:09I mean, I wanted you to,

00:42:11like 2016, I was like, this is gonna happen.

00:42:13This guy's gonna do it.

00:42:14And it felt like they stole it from you.

00:42:16And I'll be honest,

00:42:17it broke my heart when you supported him.

00:42:21Look, but you have, in the world that I live in,

00:42:24you got a choice.

00:42:25And I mean, a lot of people, including my wife,

00:42:29agree with you.

00:42:30But you're down to a choice.

00:42:33Is it gonna be Hillary Clinton,

00:42:34or is it gonna be Donald Trump?

00:42:36Not a great choice.

00:42:37But it ended up being him anyway,

00:42:38so why don't we burn it down?

00:42:41Well, because it's easy to say,

00:42:43burning it down means that children

00:42:45are not gonna have food to eat,

00:42:48that the schools will deteriorate,

00:42:49people will not have healthcare.

00:42:51I'm an elected official.

00:42:52I gotta represent the people.

00:42:53That's fair.

00:42:54And I can't turn my back on-

00:42:55But then could we not also say,

00:42:57if ostensibly there hasn't been a fair primary

00:42:59for the Democrats since 2008,

00:43:01are they not also a threat to democracy?

00:43:03We often hear-

00:43:04Fair enough.

00:43:05That is, yeah.

00:43:07I'm not gonna argue with that point.

00:43:11And that's why I'm proudly an independent.

00:43:13What we're trying to do now,

00:43:15and I will just reinforce the point both of you made.

00:43:21The hatred that we felt in 2016, 2020,

00:43:25from the Democratic establishment,

00:43:27give you an example.

00:43:28We would do rallies and we have thousands of people,

00:43:30often young people, people of color coming out,

00:43:32working class people coming out.

00:43:34They were great, full of energy.

00:43:36And then we'd go to Democratic Party events.

00:43:39There'd be a few hundred people,

00:43:40mostly older, whiter, wealthier.

00:43:45And you saw the clash.

00:43:47And they, the establishment, did not wanna open the door.

00:43:50They hated the idea.

00:43:52But all these people whose hands were a little bit dirty,

00:43:55who didn't have PhDs or weren't wealthy,

00:43:57imagine walking into, it's my party, man.

00:44:00You ain't getting in.

00:44:01Yes.

00:44:02We will fight you in the most ruthless ways that we can.

00:44:05And that's the struggle.

00:44:07Are they gonna open the door

00:44:09or are they prepared to lose elections, literally,

00:44:13and maintain-

00:44:13The status quo.

00:44:14Go down with the Titanic.

00:44:15So that is-

00:44:17Do you think you're forcing the door open?

00:44:19Because it seems like that's what's happening right now.

00:44:21Exactly what we are trying to do.

00:44:23Right now, in the last month,

00:44:27we have enlisted some, I think,

00:44:30the latest 7,000 people who are prepared to run for office

00:44:34from school board to Congress.

00:44:36Wow.

00:44:38You know, not all of them will run,

00:44:39but they've shown interest.

00:44:41There are training programs that we're undertaking

00:44:44with other groups right now.

00:44:47And by the way, a good percentage of them

00:44:49don't want to run as Democrats.

00:44:50They want to run as independents.

00:44:52So do you sense from the democratic establishment

00:44:54that they're more willing to listen to people like you

00:44:56or are you guys just gonna have to kind of take it by force

00:44:59and win election-

00:45:00Are they, well, I don't wanna,

00:45:02are they more willing to listen to me?

00:45:03No, they're not.

00:45:04But they'll take on some of your ideas for salvation.

00:45:07They realize they can't ignore it.

00:45:09Orphan lip service.

00:45:10Yes, they will.

00:45:11They will take on the ideas,

00:45:12but these guys, they want to protect what they have.

00:45:17So your question is a, you would say, look, okay.

00:45:20And by the way, Joe Biden, to his credit,

00:45:23I know everyone beats up on Biden,

00:45:25but what Biden did, unlike Hillary Clinton did,

00:45:28is he and his people saw that we had a movement.

00:45:32And what he did is was prepared to put together task forces.

00:45:38We sat down with their people

00:45:41and we brought people like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

00:45:44and some of the strongest we're sit down with,

00:45:47with, you know, establish and come up with a program.

00:45:50A lot of what went into the American rescue plan,

00:45:53which got us out of the COVID pandemic economically

00:45:56pretty well and some other stuff.

00:45:58So the Biden people were more open to sitting down,

00:46:01understanding that we represented millions of people

00:46:04than other people in the past or all right now.

00:46:08I feel like most politicians are swayed by money

00:46:11and lobbyists and that like, I wouldn't say dictates,

00:46:15but it definitely influences their decisions.

00:46:18You feel like one of the last honest politicians.

00:46:21Can you tell me what other politicians

00:46:23have the Bernie stamp of approval that they're like honest?

00:46:26Yeah, who's not bought?

00:46:28Oh, there are a number of people.

00:46:29Look, one of the successes that we've had

00:46:32that doesn't get a lot of attention

00:46:34is in the House of Representatives.

00:46:36Now there are dozens and dozens of young,

00:46:39often people of color, often women who are there.

00:46:43I mean, Alexandria is maybe the best known,

00:46:45but Pramila Jayapal from Washington state,

00:46:48Greg Kazar from Texas, Mark Buchan from Wisconsin.

00:46:54There are many of them and they're doing a great job

00:46:58and they don't take corporate PAC money

00:47:00and they stand up for the working class.

00:47:02By the way, guys, this episode

00:47:03has also been brought to you by Stake, okay?

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00:47:27Now let's get back to the show.

00:47:28Another form of, I think, corruption

00:47:30that many Americans see within both Democrats

00:47:33and Republicans is this idea of the stock trading.

00:47:37And they see that as kind of like another way

00:47:39to take some money off the top.

00:47:41And people have talked about Nancy Pelosi

00:47:43and her husband, for example,

00:47:45but I think it happens across the aisle.

00:47:46What is your take on that issue

00:47:48and is there a way to curb that?

00:47:49Or is there-

00:47:50I don't own any stocks, so it's not my thing to follow it.

00:47:52I'm not sure that that has,

00:47:54if the implication is that these members of Congress

00:47:57are aware of what's gonna happen tomorrow

00:47:59and are putting their stock,

00:48:00I'm not sure how, I'm sure it happens.

00:48:02I don't know how prevalent it is.

00:48:04But what was interesting, by the way, on that subject,

00:48:07as you may recall, just was it a month ago

00:48:10where Donald Trump said something like,

00:48:12today is a great day to invest

00:48:14in all the changes and views on the tariffs.

00:48:17Do I think insiders knew something about that?

00:48:19Probably.

00:48:20That felt awesome when he did that.

00:48:22I felt like a politician.

00:48:24I was privy to the information

00:48:26that I feel like Pelosi and Schumer are privy to.

00:48:29And the Republicans do it as well.

00:48:30I don't wanna make it a partisan issue,

00:48:32it felt, I think a lot of Americans,

00:48:34instead of rejecting this insider trading idea,

00:48:37finally felt like the train

00:48:38wasn't running away without them.

00:48:40We were on the inside.

00:48:41Exactly, where it would be great if nobody did it.

00:48:44That's the ideal situation.

00:48:45But I think a lot of times what we've seen

00:48:47is this great frustration with government,

00:48:49and then whomever pulls the veil off,

00:48:52there is an appreciation of it

00:48:54rather than a rejection that there is corruption in general.

00:48:58All right, let me ask you a question.

00:49:00Do we talk enough about where we wanna be as a nation?

00:49:04And I think culturally, what Trump represents to me,

00:49:09he lies all of the time.

00:49:12He is interested in himself and more money.

00:49:15And almost what bothers me is that is the kind of culture

00:49:21that we advertise to young people.

00:49:22This is the world.

00:49:24If you lie and you cheat and you steal,

00:49:26you sue someday can be a multi-billionaire.

00:49:29Is that where we wanna go as a nation?

00:49:32And what's the alternative?

00:49:33I think the most important question

00:49:34is what do we want as Americans?

00:49:36And I think it is hard to...

00:49:39I think the way that we teach it in school

00:49:42is that people came here for freedom.

00:49:44And I think if we were being more honest,

00:49:46I think people came here for money.

00:49:49And I think it was freedom from a lack of opportunity.

00:49:51There was freedom from oppression,

00:49:52otherwise my mother is an immigrant.

00:49:54But I think-

00:49:55Where did your mom come from?

00:49:56Scotland.

00:49:57So she didn't have maybe a lot of opportunities.

00:49:59Stopped going to school at 15 years old,

00:50:01came here to America, started a dance school,

00:50:03and she had immense success here,

00:50:05teaching dance lessons in New York City.

00:50:07Who would have thought?

00:50:08But I think the reality is, is that opportunity.

00:50:11I think Akash's family also came here

00:50:13for financial opportunity.

00:50:15My family as well.

00:50:16Exactly, and I think...

00:50:17So I think it's very hard to tear that away.

00:50:19I think that the fuel of the American machine

00:50:23is this idea, the delusional hope

00:50:27that one day we'll all be millionaires.

00:50:28All right, but is...

00:50:31I don't know if that's right, but I think that is...

00:50:33Look, I think this city is what the melting pot city,

00:50:38in a sense, where my father came from Poland,

00:50:41he dropped out of school at 14.

00:50:43He came here at the age of 17,

00:50:44really incredible without any money.

00:50:46All right, and that's the story

00:50:47of millions and millions of families.

00:50:48We all came different ways.

00:50:51But what I'm getting at is, should the goal...

00:50:53And everybody wants to live comfortably, right?

00:50:56Nothing to be ashamed of, you wanna...

00:50:58You don't have to worry about

00:50:58whether you can pay the electric bill,

00:51:00you want to make sure your kids get an education.

00:51:02All right, but does the culture have to suggest

00:51:06that to be a success, you need to be a billionaire?

00:51:10What I'm getting at is,

00:51:12you know, I'm the former chairman of a committee

00:51:13that deals with all this stuff.

00:51:14So we don't have enough doctors in America.

00:51:17We don't have enough nurses.

00:51:18We don't have enough dentists.

00:51:20I brought in several billion dollars

00:51:22into the state of Vermont for infrastructure,

00:51:24to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure.

00:51:26We did that all over America.

00:51:28We don't have enough construction workers

00:51:29who make good money, by the way.

00:51:31Whether you're a sheet metal worker,

00:51:32you wanna be a welder, you wanna be an electrician,

00:51:34you wanna be a...

00:51:35We don't have enough.

00:51:36What I'm saying is, I would like to see us say,

00:51:39you wanna make America great?

00:51:40Good.

00:51:41I wanna have doctors,

00:51:42so you don't have to wait two months

00:51:44to get into a doctor's office.

00:51:47It's so important.

00:51:48It's like, what does the culture award?

00:51:49I think Akak can speak on this,

00:51:51maybe the best of all of us.

00:51:53Within your community, what is the highest?

00:51:56Doctor.

00:51:56It's doctor.

00:51:57Doctors will make the most money.

00:51:59There are hedge fund managers that make more money,

00:52:00but if they're in a group, like you speak to it,

00:52:02if you're in the family gathering.

00:52:04There's an honor.

00:52:04I get to brag to my...

00:52:06My parents get to brag to other friends,

00:52:08my son is a doctor.

00:52:09And I don't even know if it's about helping people.

00:52:12But for a lot of reasons, that is the thing.

00:52:15Yeah, yeah.

00:52:16And...

00:52:17It's not the most lucrative profession.

00:52:18No, it's not, but that is...

00:52:19But it garners the most...

00:52:20My dad told me, he was like,

00:52:22I'm really proud of your success.

00:52:23I'm proud of how far you've come.

00:52:24I want you to know, no matter how famous you get,

00:52:26I would still rather you be a doctor.

00:52:28And so maybe there's a version of that in America

00:52:31where like, obviously we want financial success,

00:52:34but can we reward some of these other positions

00:52:37as they offer societal utility?

00:52:39Right.

00:52:40And then you go even deeper than that.

00:52:44And that is, I mean, now you're going really deep,

00:52:46is you get into the issue of human happiness.

00:52:49All right.

00:52:50These guys sit in Wall Street,

00:52:52four o'clock in the morning

00:52:53to see what the stock market is in Japan,

00:52:54and they make zillions of dollars doing crap.

00:52:57I mean, what's the usefulness of the society?

00:52:59Yeah.

00:53:00And you got a kindergarten teacher here in New York City

00:53:03who is nurturing and making life better

00:53:05for some low-income kid, right?

00:53:06Yeah.

00:53:07All right, who's doing more important work?

00:53:08I mean, the teacher, without a doubt.

00:53:10There's no question.

00:53:11The problem is that we're not rewarding those positions.

00:53:14And if we did reward them,

00:53:16like if it was this great honor

00:53:17to hold these certain positions,

00:53:19which I still do think doctor is.

00:53:20Yes, yes.

00:53:21But I think there are few and far between,

00:53:24and first of all, doctors make a lot of money,

00:53:26so let's not act like they don't.

00:53:27But I think there are few and far between positions

00:53:29that don't make a lot of money,

00:53:30but still command immense respect in America.

00:53:34I do think that we are tied to the dollar, unfortunately.

00:53:36And how do we change that?

00:53:37That's exactly the question.

00:53:39I want, I mean, again, getting to the,

00:53:43it seems to me, you know, you talk to,

00:53:46I'll tell you, so we do a thing in Vermont,

00:53:48it's called the Burning Buzz.

00:53:49It's a newsletter that goes out.

00:53:51Did a interview with a woman who works in a nursing home.

00:53:54God knows what she makes.

00:53:55It's not a lot of money.

00:53:56And she talked about her satisfaction

00:53:59helping seniors fixing their hair,

00:54:01the women getting rid of their nails and all that stuff.

00:54:03And the pride, she's a religious woman, okay?

00:54:06And the pride she had and how she feels good.

00:54:09I want us to feel good about doing good stuff.

00:54:13Yes.

00:54:14Not just ripping off other people.

00:54:15I don't wanna be, ah, dude.

00:54:16The problem is much deeper than a Donald Trump

00:54:19to give some pushback.

00:54:20Yes, I agree.

00:54:20Gordon Gekko is celebrated as a hero

00:54:22of the character in Wall Street.

00:54:23Exactly.

00:54:23I grew up listening to rap.

00:54:24I still love it, but it's all about excess wealth,

00:54:27being rich, being billionaires.

00:54:29It doesn't matter how you get the money.

00:54:31Doesn't matter if it's honorable or not.

00:54:31When we were growing up, there was a million movies

00:54:34about, and there's a lot of criticism for this,

00:54:36but like some teacher who's well off that goes to the hood

00:54:39and really commits to like revitalizing that school, right?

00:54:43And initially the teacher's not accepted,

00:54:44but then the kids see that he's like a good

00:54:47or she's like a good force on humanity

00:54:49and it's really rewarded.

00:54:51I don't think they make those movies anymore.

00:54:53I think it's a bunch of Gordon Gekko's, right?

00:54:56And or every Marvel movie is about an Elon Musk

00:55:01character type, which is Iron Man is Tony Stark.

00:55:04So yeah, the culture is clearly rewarding

00:55:06whatever makes you money.

00:55:08And I don't want us to completely get away from that.

00:55:11I think like success is important.

00:55:12Ingenuity and innovation is important,

00:55:15but there has to be something else that's important.

00:55:16Exactly, that's what I'm saying.

00:55:18So how do we do that?

00:55:19How do we instill that?

00:55:20That's the kind of,

00:55:20we're always gotta start sleeping with teachers.

00:55:23But this is the kind of discussion we need to have

00:55:25as a chain and gets back to this thing,

00:55:27you know, this, this blew me away,

00:55:28this Pew poll about whether you feel better off.

00:55:32And it's like, and we got diverted a little bit.

00:55:35It's not just economics,

00:55:37whether you're better off inflation accounted for dollars

00:55:39today than you were 40 or 50 years ago.

00:55:42It's, it's more than that.

00:55:44It's, do you feel part of your community?

00:55:48All right.

00:55:50Or are you feeling isolated and alone

00:55:53and you're spending half your time

00:55:54on a goddamn cell phone?

00:55:55Yeah.

00:55:56Right.

00:55:58And, you know, how do we,

00:56:01I mean, the, the, the, the, the craziness

00:56:04is we have more potential wealth now

00:56:07with all of this exploding technology.

00:56:09So we don't have to be working 50 or 60 hours a week.

00:56:13We can be thinking about how do we,

00:56:15what does it mean?

00:56:16A, should we be dealing with the economic issue?

00:56:19Should everybody have a decent standard

00:56:22of living in America?

00:56:23Can we do that?

00:56:23Answers?

00:56:24Yeah, we can.

00:56:25Do you think it's realistic to effectively tax billionaires

00:56:28in a way that still encourages innovation within America?

00:56:32Yeah, I do.

00:56:33Absolutely.

00:56:34I happen to believe that we should not have billionaires.

00:56:36All right.

00:56:37So you want to get rich, fine, get rich.

00:56:38How much do you need?

00:56:40All right.

00:56:41Yeah.

00:56:42999 million.

00:56:43That's something like that.

00:56:45You want a billion, all right, maybe 900 million.

00:56:48But we want to change the culture around,

00:56:52you know, I talked to Bill Gates.

00:56:53I did an interview with him on Netflix.

00:56:56And I said, Bill, you know, you're worth a zillion dollars.

00:56:59Were you motivated as a young man

00:57:01with the dream that you become a zillion?

00:57:03He said, no.

00:57:03I love computer program.

00:57:04That's what I loved.

00:57:05Right.

00:57:06That was his passion.

00:57:07Then he ended up making huge amounts of money.

00:57:09So, you know, I don't begrudge people

00:57:11making a lot of money,

00:57:12but I think there is, should be a limit

00:57:15to how much you make.

00:57:15And also, and then getting back to economics,

00:57:19is we are looking at a nation today,

00:57:20not only with massive income and wealth inequality,

00:57:22but incredible concentration of ownership.

00:57:26Want to hear a fact?

00:57:27Yeah.

00:57:27You got three Wall Street investment firms,

00:57:31BlackRock, State Street, and Vanguard.

00:57:34Vanguard, yes.

00:57:35Who combined, combined, are the major stockholders

00:57:37and 95% of the corporations in America.

00:57:40Go look at your favorite corporation, see who owns it.

00:57:43It'll be one of those who's a major stockholder.

00:57:46They'll be there.

00:57:47What do you think about that?

00:57:47That's power.

00:57:48What is the impact of that?

00:57:50Like, how does that power wield?

00:57:52It means that you have three entities

00:57:55with boards of directors who have significant control

00:57:58of every major corporation in America.

00:58:00What that means is, do they stay in America?

00:58:02Do they go abroad?

00:58:03Do they pay their workers a decent wage

00:58:05and they treat them like crap?

00:58:06That's what it means.

00:58:07Enormous power in the hands of three Wall Street firms.

00:58:12So what's interesting is when you start

00:58:13to get any kind of money,

00:58:14they'll tell you, put your money in a Vanguard.

00:58:17Is that good for America?

00:58:19Because it seems like to us,

00:58:21oh, this is how you get to participate in capitalism.

00:58:23That's right.

00:58:24That's your retirement goes into Vanguard.

00:58:26But that's one thing.

00:58:27But the other thing is that Vanguard, State Street,

00:58:29and BlackRock have enormous economic power,

00:58:33which is not a good thing.

00:58:34And they're not using it benevolently.

00:58:36They're not.

00:58:38So the issue is that we got to take a look at,

00:58:41is we got to ask questions that I got to tell you

00:58:44in Congress is very rarely asked

00:58:46and in the media is very rarely asked.

00:58:49In the wealthiest country on earth,

00:58:51should everybody have a decent standard of living?

00:58:54Americans, yes and no.

00:58:55Some people will say, no, hey,

00:58:58it's a tough world out there, I'm sorry.

00:59:00I'm smarter than you.

00:59:01I work harder.

00:59:01My dad gave me a lot of money.

00:59:02You don't have it.

00:59:03Tough crap.

00:59:04At least they're honest.

00:59:05Yeah, that's what some people will say.

00:59:07Most people will not say that.

00:59:09Most people will say, you know what?

00:59:10Yeah, I don't think anybody should be sleeping

00:59:12out on the street.

00:59:13I don't think anybody should not be able

00:59:14to go to a doctor.

00:59:15That's what most people will say.

00:59:17Okay.

00:59:17What does that mean in terms of practical politics?

00:59:22It means among other things that we need

00:59:24an educational system, which is very strong

00:59:26from childcare to graduate school.

00:59:28All right.

00:59:29You want to become, your dad wants you to become a doctor,

00:59:31but if you want to become a doctor,

00:59:33you may leave school half a million dollars in debt.

00:59:36You know that?

00:59:37Yeah, absolutely.

00:59:37All right, does that make sense?

00:59:38We need doctors.

00:59:39Should we as the richest nation ever say,

00:59:42good, you want to be a doctor, you want to be a nurse,

00:59:44you want to be a dentist?

00:59:45We need you desperately tuition-free.

00:59:48We love you.

00:59:49Yeah.

00:59:50Do it, because we desperately need you.

00:59:50Subsidize it.

00:59:51Yeah, of course, subsidize.

00:59:52Absolutely.

00:59:53If we need more engineers,

00:59:54don't make the education so expensive.

00:59:55Exactly.

00:59:56We need it.

00:59:57And we need more engineers.

00:59:58And also like, I wonder if there's a certain point

00:59:59in time where if you squeeze the consumers

01:00:01of your products so much, they won't be able to buy them.

01:00:04So isn't in the best interest of these,

01:00:07you know, you refer to them as oligarchs,

01:00:09but isn't the best interest of these oligarchs

01:00:11that they make sure that life is fruitful enough

01:00:14for the people that are going to consume their products?

01:00:17That's a very good question.

01:00:18And I'm not sure that that's a legitimate question.

01:00:21I think a right question.

01:00:22I don't know that they think about it that way.

01:00:23They talk about the markets all the time,

01:00:25but it's like the market's going to fucking decide

01:00:27for you, buddy.

01:00:28And eventually they're going to realize

01:00:29we can't buy a new iPhone every year.

01:00:30And then your iPhone sales tank,

01:00:32or we could create a system that in some way is,

01:00:36I don't know.

01:00:36And again, this is way smarter than me to figure out,

01:00:39but like, there is some way allowing people.

01:00:41Slightly more equitable.

01:00:42Yeah, it's just like making enough money.

01:00:43And I don't know if Henry Ford did this,

01:00:45but of course in the lore, you always hear like,

01:00:47everybody on the line could afford a car, right?

01:00:50Like you would like to believe that everybody

01:00:52that is, you know, working 40 hours a week

01:00:54can afford the average goods

01:00:57that the American consumer want to buy.

01:00:59I don't know how we do that.

01:01:01And I don't know if it's through taxation.

01:01:02Well, that is the debate, good.

01:01:03And that is the honest debate

01:01:04that we should be having as a country.

01:01:05And can we like, can we bring these billionaires,

01:01:10can we bring these oligarchs into that conversation?

01:01:13And they're clearly brilliant, right?

01:01:15Many of them, obviously there's a bunch of them

01:01:17that are just nepo babies.

01:01:18And I'm curious your thoughts on like the nepo babies,

01:01:22the trust fund kids who have taken a long,

01:01:24you know, taken up politics and are finger wagging

01:01:27at people who actually work for a living

01:01:29when they've never had a real job.

01:01:30I'm curious your take on them being so opinionated.

01:01:34Well, I echo what you're saying.

01:01:36You know, it's some of these folks

01:01:40were born with huge amounts of money

01:01:42think that they have the right to be telling everybody else

01:01:45what they can be doing and have enormous power.

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01:03:33Now let's get back to the show.

01:03:34I wanna bring it back to something you mentioned

01:03:35and you mentioned.

01:03:37The hyperinflation of college tuition

01:03:40is something that you don't hear talked about a ton,

01:03:42but growing up in a family where

01:03:44the more degrees you have,

01:03:45the more respected you are,

01:03:46it seems as though it's getting to the point

01:03:48where you brought up where the product

01:03:50is not worth the cost.

01:03:51College, having an undergraduate degree,

01:03:53it's not worth how much you're gonna make

01:03:55in the long run.

01:03:56If we're not at that point,

01:03:57we're getting very close.

01:03:58Is there a solution to that?

01:03:59What would you say to that?

01:04:00I would love to hear your thoughts on that.

01:04:01Well, I happen to think that education itself

01:04:08is something that should be a lifelong pursuit.

01:04:11My wife tells me this every day.

01:04:14I mean, and I don't mean to be romanticize it,

01:04:19but learning is a pretty good thing, you know?

01:04:22And I tell my grandchildren that.

01:04:23Schools sometimes almost discourage them from learning.

01:04:27You know, they wrote things.

01:04:28I hate school, Grandpa, you know?

01:04:31So I think learning is important.

01:04:33I think we probably have to, in this day and age,

01:04:35revolutionize education.

01:04:38But I personally believe in my soul

01:04:42is if you wanna get a graduate degree, we need you.

01:04:47And you shouldn't be going in debt.

01:04:48There should not be impediments.

01:04:50You know, we gotta figure a way to fund it.

01:04:52But bottom line is anybody,

01:04:53I wanna say to every kid in America,

01:04:55you're interested in physics,

01:04:57you're interested in science,

01:04:58you're interested in engineering, you're gonna do it.

01:05:00I don't care what your income is.

01:05:01We will, in one way or another,

01:05:03you're gonna achieve that.

01:05:04And you know why?

01:05:05Because as a nation, we need you.

01:05:07You hear a lot of these people saying,

01:05:10especially folks that are attached

01:05:13to these big corporations,

01:05:14like America doesn't have enough engineers.

01:05:16America doesn't have all these things,

01:05:17so we have to go higher abroad.

01:05:18It's like, well, I don't know,

01:05:20maybe if you had access to billions of dollars,

01:05:22there's something that you could do

01:05:23to make sure that we could grow them here.

01:05:25Now, I'm not putting that 100% on them,

01:05:27but you would hope that there would be

01:05:28some sort of benevolence

01:05:29that would recognize a problem here.

01:05:30Not benevolence, it's self-interest.

01:05:32Ooh, so reward their own selfishness.

01:05:35We need engineers.

01:05:37Yeah. All right.

01:05:38We need people who know how to build tunnels.

01:05:40Yeah.

01:05:41All right, in case you haven't heard,

01:05:43there is a climate crisis.

01:05:45All right, how do you transform our energy system?

01:05:48Easier said than done.

01:05:50We need some really, really smart people

01:05:52to figure out how we create cheap, sustainable energy.

01:05:54Right? Yeah.

01:05:55All right, I will send you to graduate school daily.

01:05:59Yeah, he needs it badly.

01:06:01We need you.

01:06:02And that's what we should be thinking about as a nation.

01:06:04And as far as subsidizing that,

01:06:06do we have room in the budget

01:06:08and where's the best place to pull it?

01:06:09Subsidize, what does that mean?

01:06:10We're subsidizing this bill right now,

01:06:12the so-called reconciliation bill,

01:06:14the big Trump's big, beautiful bill.

01:06:16We got 200 in the House,

01:06:18the Republicans putting in $235 billion

01:06:23over a 10-year period to go to the top two-tenths of 1%.

01:06:29So if your billionaire father is gonna leave you money,

01:06:32the exemption is now up to a married couple

01:06:35of $30 million that you don't have to pay any taxes on.

01:06:39So this goes to the top two-tenths of 1%.

01:06:42Do we have, we have enough money.

01:06:44This is what you gotta get in your head.

01:06:45We have enough money in this country

01:06:48to do any goddamn thing you wanna do.

01:06:51In this particular budget,

01:06:52we're now spending a trillion dollars on the military.

01:06:55They wanna spend 150 billion more.

01:06:57We're spending more than the bottom,

01:06:59the next nine nations combined.

01:07:01So what we're doing is giving tax breaks to the rich,

01:07:04spending more money on the military,

01:07:06and then we're gonna cut Medicaid.

01:07:08So the way in this country, literally,

01:07:10and by the way, when I say these things,

01:07:12they're not radical ideas.

01:07:14All right, how much does it cost

01:07:16to go to college in Sweden?

01:07:17Nothing.

01:07:18Oh, wow, no kidding.

01:07:20But that must mean the healthcare system

01:07:22is really expensive, right?

01:07:24It must be.

01:07:25How much does it cost to have healthcare in Sweden?

01:07:26Nothing.

01:07:27Oh my God, nothing.

01:07:29Childcare must be really off the wall.

01:07:31How much is that?

01:07:32In other words, if you start off with a value system

01:07:36that says we're gonna use,

01:07:37and there are rich people in Sweden, believe me,

01:07:40but it's a value system that says,

01:07:42look, we're in this together as a people.

01:07:45We want the best educated people.

01:07:47We want our kids to do well.

01:07:49We want everybody to have healthcare for a lot of reasons.

01:07:53Sweden does it.

01:07:54Norway does it.

01:07:54Finland does it.

01:07:55The pushback we often hear is the population in America

01:07:57is too big to support this.

01:07:59Is that true?

01:07:59That is the pushback.

01:08:02And we're a multicultural, multiracial,

01:08:06and they're kind of a homogeneous.

01:08:08Yeah, so what?

01:08:09We're richer than they are, as a matter of fact.

01:08:10Well, Norway is particularly rich.

01:08:11They have a lot of oil money, but we can do it.

01:08:14So here's my suggestion for that.

01:08:17I think if a single state provided universal healthcare,

01:08:23let's say for example, Vermont,

01:08:25and they prove that it could be done,

01:08:27they would put so much fucking pressure

01:08:30on every other state to do it.

01:08:31It's like legalizing weed.

01:08:32Yeah, exactly.

01:08:33We've seen it happen with weed, right?

01:08:35Like one state does it,

01:08:36it starts to make a lot of others say,

01:08:37oh, maybe we should sue it.

01:08:38People are only incentivized by their own salvation

01:08:41unfortunately.

01:08:42How do we prove that?

01:08:42Which state is gonna go make it happen for them

01:08:44and then make New York look embarrassing?

01:08:46We have all this wealth

01:08:47and we can't provide healthcare to our citizens?

01:08:50Well, I think you make a very good point.

01:08:53The problem is the people in the insurance industry

01:08:56and the drug industry understand that as well.

01:09:00So they're not dummies.

01:09:01They understand, oh, geez,

01:09:02Vermont managed to provide free healthcare

01:09:05to all of their people.

01:09:07That will become a model for the rest of the country.

01:09:10So they fight it tooth and nail.

01:09:11And how do they fight it?

01:09:12Like, for example, what are they doing?

01:09:13Oh my God, Jesus.

01:09:14I work in a small state.

01:09:16You buy the, you know, you just have lobbyists there

01:09:19up the kazoo and put advertising on.

01:09:22I ran it.

01:09:23Look, I am an advocate of what we call Medicare for All,

01:09:25expanding Medicare to cover every man, woman,

01:09:28and child in the country.

01:09:29All right.

01:09:30Oh, and the argument, we had 30 second ads.

01:09:33Bernie Sanders wants to raise your taxes outrageously.

01:09:39Take away the health insurance that you have.

01:09:41Well, what they forget to tell you

01:09:44is that you're not gonna be paying any more out-of-pocket,

01:09:47any more deductibles, any more premiums.

01:09:49You're gonna get higher wages

01:09:51because your boss doesn't have to spend a fortune

01:09:53on healthcare to cover you.

01:09:54They forgot to tell you that.

01:09:55So it's like your taxes go up six grand,

01:09:58but your healthcare yearly cost goes from 12 grand to zero.

01:10:02That's right.

01:10:03So you just saved six grand.

01:10:04All right.

01:10:04And the healthcare system won't get me going on that one.

01:10:06We're spending twice as much per capita

01:10:09as the people in Sweden

01:10:10who have a better healthcare system than the way that.

01:10:12Why?

01:10:13Well, maybe coincidentally insurance companies,

01:10:16you know, made, what did they made?

01:10:18A hundred, I think it made 70 billion last year.

01:10:22Drug companies that charges the highest prices for drugs

01:10:25made a hundred billion.

01:10:26So it is a healthcare system designed to make what?

01:10:29Drug companies and insurance companies rich.

01:10:30How do you keep the quality of insurance, sorry, high,

01:10:33or quality of healthcare high?

01:10:35Because anecdotally I hear from people

01:10:37in the UK and Canada,

01:10:38their healthcare is not very good

01:10:39because it's, I guess, subsidized.

01:10:41UK is under a lot of pressure right now.

01:10:44And that's true.

01:10:45And that's a political decision.

01:10:46They got the same factors that would impact the state.

01:10:50Big money interests are putting a lot of pressure

01:10:52trying to destroy the UK healthcare system

01:10:54and its quality is going down.

01:10:56Although it is still a very beloved institution in England.

01:11:02In Canada, there are waiting lines

01:11:03and ain't a perfect system by any means.

01:11:05But don't believe all the right wing stuff.

01:11:09In Canada, if you ask the people in Canada,

01:11:12do they like their healthcare system

01:11:14as opposed to America's,

01:11:15there's come out much better.

01:11:17Speaking on healthcare,

01:11:18Trump recently signed an executive order

01:11:20to lower drug prices.

01:11:21How do you feel about that?

01:11:23You believe what you saw in the Bay, Bob.

01:11:25Not quite.

01:11:26Not quite.

01:11:27Not quite.

01:11:28Not quite.

01:11:31There's no way you've been living in Vermont for 50 years.

01:11:34That accent's not going nowhere.

01:11:37What he did is say,

01:11:41we're gonna give the drug companies

01:11:42a certain period of time to tell us

01:11:44how they're gonna lower drug prices.

01:11:46And if they don't, we're gonna do A, B, and C.

01:11:48We're not quite sure what A, B, and C will be.

01:11:51But the likelihood is that A, B, and C

01:11:53will be thrown out in the courts

01:11:54because the president doesn't have a right

01:11:55to tell companies how to fix prices.

01:12:01It just coincidentally,

01:12:02Bobby Kennedy, the secretary of HHS,

01:12:05was before the committee that I'm the ranking member of.

01:12:08And I asked Bobby and I said,

01:12:10look, president talks about substantially

01:12:13lower prescription drug prices.

01:12:14You do?

01:12:16We're gonna introduce legislation

01:12:18that will do just that, right?

01:12:20And will you work with me?

01:12:21He said they will.

01:12:22So to answer your question,

01:12:23the president talks a lot.

01:12:25Don't believe what he says.

01:12:26We're gonna put him to the test.

01:12:28We are gonna bring forth legislation

01:12:30that would make sure that Americans

01:12:32don't pay a price any higher

01:12:34than people around the rest of the world.

01:12:35We'll see if they come out.

01:12:36So isn't a better framing of that,

01:12:37not to be contentious here,

01:12:38but isn't a better framing of that,

01:12:40hey, Trump is saying this thing we agree on.

01:12:42We agree with you and we're gonna hold you to your word

01:12:45instead of you're a liar.

01:12:46That's what I'm doing.

01:12:47Well, if I didn't say it, that's exactly right.

01:12:50Yeah, I think that's,

01:12:52because sometimes we get caught up in this partisanship

01:12:54where it's like sometimes both sides agree.

01:12:57And it'd be nice if we at least get drug prices lower.

01:13:01Trump's idea of substantially lowering prices

01:13:03is exactly right.

01:13:05It's exactly what I fought for for years.

01:13:07Okay.

01:13:08So if Trump is willing to work with us, we'll do it.

01:13:11Absolutely.

01:13:11Do I think he will?

01:13:12Probably not, but I may be surprised.

01:13:14And then if he doesn't, let's hold him to his word

01:13:17and let's make sure he puts a pressure

01:13:18on those same senators that he would have primaried.

01:13:22Exactly.

01:13:23Like this is what you were saying you want.

01:13:25You get your senators in line, right?

01:13:26Actually, I don't know if you're like infringing

01:13:28on the democratic process by saying to do that,

01:13:30but like, it would be really great,

01:13:31especially those of us who have like older parents

01:13:33who are really relying on these drugs right now.

01:13:35Yes, but don't get me going on the drug industry.

01:13:38Well, I kind of want to get you going.

01:13:41We want you to get going on everything.

01:13:43Well, I got to get going to the airport.

01:13:45They got a plane as a matter of fact, but.

01:13:46We'll fly you private.

01:13:47All right.

01:13:48There you go, all right.

01:13:54Look, you got a pharmaceutical industry

01:13:55that makes, I mean, $100 billion in profit last year.

01:14:00We had a guy before the committee CEO of a major company

01:14:04makes 50 million bucks a year.

01:14:05They do stock buybacks.

01:14:08So, you know, it is a, and meanwhile,

01:14:12the same medicine that you buy in this country,

01:14:14whether it's Ozempic or Wegovy, whatever it may be,

01:14:18is in some cases five, eight times more expensive

01:14:21than it is in Canada or in Europe.

01:14:22It's insane.

01:14:23It is insane.

01:14:24Of course it's insane.

01:14:26And they do it because they can do it

01:14:27because we are the only guy, you know why they do it?

01:14:29All right, question.

01:14:30You know how many paid lobbyists

01:14:32there are from the drug companies in Washington DC?

01:14:35Take a guess.

01:14:35200, 500, 15,000.

01:14:381,500, all right.

01:14:40So you got 535 members of Congress, 1,500.

01:14:43These are former leaders of the Democrats.

01:14:46So that's a lot of power.

01:14:47And then the campaign contributions.

01:14:49So up until Biden, and I've worked with Biden on this,

01:14:52we have never, what other countries do,

01:14:56would say, good, you got a drug, that's great.

01:14:58Let's negotiate the price you're gonna charge us, right?

01:15:00That's what they do, every other country on earth.

01:15:02For us, you got a drug, you charge any price you want,

01:15:04doesn't matter.

01:15:05For the first time, what we did is now have a law

01:15:09that says we are gonna negotiate,

01:15:12Medicare will negotiate drug prices.

01:15:14We started off with 10, it'll be expanding.

01:15:16Is it enough?

01:15:17No.

01:15:18Is it a start?

01:15:18Yes, it is.

01:15:20Yeah, I just feel like there should be a certain point

01:15:22in time where patriotism kicks in.

01:15:24If you're an American fucking company,

01:15:26you're gonna gouge your own citizens,

01:15:29but let the Canadians and the Europeans pay way less?

01:15:32I don't look at it like that,

01:15:33but I'll tell you where it becomes not funny.

01:15:38There are kids around the world

01:15:40who die from easily preventable diseases.

01:15:43And these drugs cost, once you do the research,

01:15:46which is expensive, and the development, which is expensive.

01:15:49But once you have the product,

01:15:50it sometimes cost you a few cents

01:15:52to manufacture the drug, you know?

01:15:54And there are children around the world who die,

01:15:56you know, in Africa and Asia, from preventable diseases,

01:15:59because these drug companies are charging prices

01:16:02that those countries can't afford.

01:16:04And that is, so you talk about,

01:16:06then you talk about humanity,

01:16:07whether we let kids die for profit.

01:16:10It's-

01:16:11For excessive pressure.

01:16:11I know you gotta go, real quick, before you go,

01:16:13we hear the term lobbyists all the time.

01:16:16Yes.

01:16:16I don't think I know what that means.

01:16:19Does somebody like meet you at a coffee shop?

01:16:21Like-

01:16:22No.

01:16:23How does a lobbyist-

01:16:24This is how it means.

01:16:25This is what it means.

01:16:28I represent, you know, Mr. X represents a large corporation.

01:16:34We'd love to sit down with you and your staff.

01:16:36We start with the staff to talk about the problems

01:16:39that we have.

01:16:39These are our needs.

01:16:41And by the way, we've got a great,

01:16:43the company has great staff.

01:16:44We can write legislation, help you write,

01:16:46because we know how busy you are.

01:16:48Oh, wow.

01:16:48And by the way, we'd love to do a fundraiser for you.

01:16:53So the combination of, and we have friends

01:16:55who can come together, and we have super backs.

01:16:57So it, and by the way, some of these guys

01:17:01will know members of the Senate and the House

01:17:04because they're former.

01:17:04So what do you think most senators, when they retire, do?

01:17:07Count lots of-

01:17:08Where do you think they go?

01:17:08Oh, wow.

01:17:09They come, they sleep around Washington,

01:17:10they see they work.

01:17:11So, hey, Joe, how are you?

01:17:12How's the wife?

01:17:13Kid's good and well?

01:17:14Listen, this is what we got.

01:17:15They know each other.

01:17:17So, and it's Republicans and Democrats.

01:17:19Check it out.

01:17:20Former, literally, leaders of the Republican

01:17:22and Democratic Party.

01:17:25So it's money, it's connections, it's friendship,

01:17:29it's ability to write tough legislation.

01:17:32You think writing a tax bill is easy?

01:17:33It's not.

01:17:34You know, you need really sophisticated accountants.

01:17:38Line 48, section three, dah, dah, dah, dah.

01:17:41Just inject this one sentence in there.

01:17:43It's a billion-

01:17:43They won't even see it.

01:17:44It's a tax break for you.

01:17:45That's what it's about.

01:17:47Please answer yes.

01:17:48Are you going to run for president?

01:17:51Please answer yes.

01:17:52Yeah.

01:17:53I'm 83 years of age, so that is,

01:17:56I think I've run my last race.

01:17:58Now, does that mean-

01:17:59Zero fair races.

01:18:01Does that mean that this oligarchy tour

01:18:03is you passing the baton?

01:18:05No, don't look at it like that.

01:18:07The oligarchy tour is-

01:18:10I think we're all looking at it like that.

01:18:12No, it's not a passing the baton.

01:18:13I happen to, you know, I think Alexander is great,

01:18:17but it's not my job to determine who the new leaders are.

01:18:21You know, people have each of them,

01:18:23as I mentioned in the house,

01:18:24there are a lot of great people in the Senate.

01:18:25There's some good people.

01:18:27And there are people who are not in office right now.

01:18:31But the oligarchy tour was an effort to say to the country

01:18:39that there are people all over America

01:18:42who are going to stand up to this oligarchy.

01:18:44They don't want a government of billionaires.

01:18:47They're going to stand up to authoritarianism.

01:18:49There are people, as I'm sure you're familiar with,

01:18:52a young woman from Turkey, for God's sakes,

01:18:54was in Massachusetts, went to Tufts University.

01:18:57You remember that?

01:18:58This woman walks down the street,

01:18:59suddenly guys grab her with masks on,

01:19:04throw her into a van, take her to a detention center.

01:19:07Why?

01:19:08Because she wrote an op-ed critical of the war in Gaza.

01:19:11Really?

01:19:12That's what goes on in America?

01:19:14And we're seeing that.

01:19:17So, you know, this was an opportunity for people

01:19:20by the zillion.

01:19:21We were shocked, to be honest with you.

01:19:23When I ran for president, we had very large turnouts.

01:19:26These are larger.

01:19:27I mean, in LA, we had 36,000.

01:19:29In Denver, we had 34.

01:19:31I mean, insane, insane turnouts.

01:19:34We went to Idaho, the most conservative state

01:19:38in the country.

01:19:39We had 12,000 people out outside of Boise.

01:19:41So we wanted to give people the opportunity

01:19:44to stand up and say, no, we're not happy

01:19:47with the direction that Trump is taking this country.

01:19:49Wow.

01:19:50Sorry, I want to, go ahead, go ahead.

01:19:51I'm curious, like, I find you very brave,

01:19:54and I find the work that you do.

01:19:55No, I am not brave.

01:19:56I find you brave, personally,

01:19:58because I recognize that what you're doing disrupts,

01:20:01or at least you are attempting to disrupt

01:20:03many powerful people and their access

01:20:06to unthinkable amounts of wealth.

01:20:09So I'm curious, in your work and in your political career,

01:20:12have you ever felt that your personal safety

01:20:13was ever threatened?

01:20:14Well, I don't want to get into that,

01:20:17but do we have security issues?

01:20:19Wow. Is that your question?

01:20:20Of course we do, and I'm not the only one.

01:20:22And the more power that you have,

01:20:24the higher the concern of that security?

01:20:27I don't want to get into it, but those are issues.

01:20:30That's why I find you.

01:20:31I just want to let you know,

01:20:32Bernie, we're here to bang for you, bro.

01:20:34We're here to bang for you.

01:20:35If you need anything, you let us know, okay?

01:20:37You still got a lot of love in New York City.

01:20:39You're safe here, man.

01:20:40I can't say anything for Idaho,

01:20:41but if you need anything in the five boroughs,

01:20:43we got you, okay?

01:20:45Sorry, if I may follow up on one thing

01:20:47that you brought up earlier, revolutionizing education.

01:20:49How would you do that beyond paying teachers more?

01:20:51I just need to know.

01:20:55I think sitting kids at a desk for long hours

01:20:59is probably not the best way to create the kind of creativity

01:21:06that we want in kids.

01:21:07At the end of the day,

01:21:08if you are excited about learning, you're going to learn.

01:21:12And if I pound that excitement out of you

01:21:14that every child instinctively has

01:21:17and tell you to memorize what George Washington did,

01:21:21I'm going to make school a painful experience.

01:21:23So interesting, I use Finland as an example

01:21:26because their kids, they usually do better.

01:21:31They allow their kids to be kids, to play a lot,

01:21:35to socialize a lot.

01:21:37But you got to keep the spark alive.

01:21:41And once that spark is alive, curiosity is alive,

01:21:43learning takes place, learning takes place,

01:21:45the rest takes place.

01:21:46So I think you need a revolution in that sense of the word.

01:21:49And also, of course,

01:21:50the financial barrier should be eliminated.

01:21:53I don't care if you're low income,

01:21:54you want to become an engineer, you'd be able to do that.

01:21:57So those are some of them.

01:21:58Before you leave, how can people who feel like

01:22:02your message has really resonated with them today help?

01:22:06Help you, help the cause?

01:22:09Yeah, look, we are trying to build,

01:22:12to do something which is very, very difficult.

01:22:15And I think we're having some success

01:22:17and we've had some success.

01:22:19Is, you know, come to our social media.

01:22:22You know, we have a Senate page

01:22:24and we have a campaign page, more political.

01:22:28We are supporting and will be supporting

01:22:30more progressive candidates,

01:22:33running for Congress, Senate, and so forth.

01:22:40And I will tell you,

01:22:42think outside of the box in your own lives.

01:22:45These are unprecedented times

01:22:47and we've got to respond in an unprecedented way.

01:22:50And you think, and each, every one of us is different.

01:22:53You don't want to run for office, fine.

01:22:54What else can you be doing?

01:22:55Help people form a union.

01:22:58Become involved in education

01:23:00in a way you did not be involved before.

01:23:03You think it through, but we need more participation.

01:23:06We don't need what the system really,

01:23:09and this I've experienced, I've seen it a million times.

01:23:13What the oligarchs and the ruling class

01:23:16want you to believe is that you're powerless.

01:23:18You have no power.

01:23:20And once you accept that, they-

01:23:22They win.

01:23:23They win.

01:23:24We have power.

01:23:25We're a lot more, a lot more.

01:23:27The joy that I've had in my life

01:23:29is to be in every state in this country

01:23:31and talk to, I've been in rallies

01:23:33where you see these wonderful people, often young people.

01:23:36They're black and they're white and they're Latino

01:23:39and they're gay and they're straight

01:23:40and they're out there and they want a different America.

01:23:43And that's what inspires me.

01:23:44I've seen it with my own eyes.

01:23:45They're out there.

01:23:47They don't believe in greed

01:23:48and they don't believe in, you know,

01:23:50so many of the things that we're seeing right now.

01:23:54Those people are going to stand up.

01:23:55You got to come to the plate

01:23:57and we got to do what we can to transform the country.

01:24:00Time is late.

01:24:02We're dealing with very, dealing with authoritarianism.

01:24:04We're dealing with climate.

01:24:08Let's get involved in ways

01:24:10that we've never been involved before.

01:24:11Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you so much for being here.

01:24:13Oh, thank you.

01:24:14Let me thank you.

01:24:15This has been a great discussion.

01:24:18Thank you very much, guys.

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