On Sunday, Speaker Johnson (R-LA) spoke to CNN's Jake Tapper as the House's budget heads to the Senate.
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00:00And joining me now is the Speaker of the House of Representatives, Mike Johnson of Louisiana.
00:04Speaker Johnson, thanks so much for joining us. Republican senators have made it clear that they
00:09want to make some changes to the House bill. Senate Majority Leader John Thune told CNN
00:13the Senate's going to write its own bill. Even though they have a larger majority than you do,
00:20what is your message to your colleagues in the Senate?
00:24Thanks, Jake. Great to be with you. Look, I've been very consistent with our colleagues in the
00:28Senate. We worked hand-in-glove with them all through this process, remembering that the
00:32House began this more than a year ago. It was March of last year when we got our committee chairs
00:37together and told them to begin to prepare for this massive reconciliation package. We believed at
00:42that time, more than a year ago, that we would win the White House, the Senate, and the House and have
00:46unified government and have this really once-in-a-generation opportunity to do so much in one piece of
00:51legislation. So I met with the Senate Republicans, all my colleagues over there last week on Tuesday
00:56at their weekly luncheon, and I encourage them, you know, to do their work, of course, as we all
01:01anticipate, but to make as few modifications to this package as possible, because remembering that
01:07we've got to pass it one more time to ratify their changes in the House. And I have a very delicate
01:12balance here, a very delicate equilibrium that we've reached over a long period of time,
01:16and it's best not to meddle with it too much.
01:19Let's talk about what the legislation actually does. I want to play something that you said back
01:23in January about the national debt. The number one threat to our nation right
01:30now is our debt. We take that very seriously. Congress has kicked the can down the road for
01:34decades, and we're out of road. And so we understand that it's our responsibility to fix this.
01:41So there are five different independent scores of this legislation. Every one of them says that it
01:46will increase the deficit somewhere between $3.3 and $4 trillion over the next 10 years. Now,
01:53I get you take issue with the Congressional Budget Office and that they don't have dynamic scoring,
01:58all this, but this is the emergency, emerging consensus among everyone analyzing. They say you're
02:04kicking, not only are you kicking the can down the road, but you're making the problem worse.
02:08You're adding to the debt. Well, I think that is dramatically overstated,
02:14and here's why. Everyone can, those same groups can objectively see and acknowledge that this is the
02:20largest cut in spending in at least 30 years and arguably of all time. We're cutting over $1.5 trillion
02:27in federal spending while we check all the boxes and bring about a pro-growth economy. And the CBO has
02:33been panned because, as you said, they don't do dynamic scoring. What that means is they don't
02:38account for the growth that will be fostered by all the policies that are in this big piece of
02:44legislation. This is not theoretical, Jake. Just remember the last Trump administration. After
02:50the first two years, we brought about the greatest economy in the history of the world, not just the
02:54U.S. The growth was off the charts. It was an average of about 3% of growth in GDP. Why? Because we cut
03:00taxes and we cut regulations. We're doing the same thing this time around, but on steroids. This is a
03:06much larger package, a much more robust package with all these features that will really get the
03:11economy going because wages will rise. Job creators, entrepreneurs, risk-takers will have more ability to
03:17expand their businesses. U.S. manufacturing onshore is being incentivized. All these things will work
03:23together to make the economy grow faster than many of these projections are putting forth. So we're not
03:30buying it. We'll see what happens, and we have the evidence to prove it from the past.
03:34So the CBO doesn't get a vote, but my next guest, Republican Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin does,
03:39and he wrote in The Wall Street Journal, quote, the one big, beautiful bill will almost certainly
03:43add to our deficits and debt, and he even called the bill the Titanic. What do you say to him?
03:50Look, I love Ron Johnson. He's a dear friend, and he and I agree on our philosophy. We're limited
03:55government conservatives. We want to limit the size and scope of the government and make
03:59it work more efficiently and effectively. My response to him, and we've spoken about this
04:04over recent months, is that we're doing the best we can with the vote numbers that we have. In other
04:09words, we've got to turn this aircraft carrier. You don't turn an aircraft carrier on a dime. It
04:14takes a mile of open ocean to do it, and it took us decades to get in this financial situation.
04:19We can't just flip a switch and get out of it overnight. One of the people that my friend Ron
04:24Johnson really respects is Russ Vogt, who directs the Office of Management and Budget, and Russ is a
04:29big champion for this piece of legislation. He calls it historic, and he's a fiscal hawk, and so am I.
04:35So we're doing as much as we can, and I just encourage Ron to remember, you know, in our, in the House,
04:40we have 220 Republicans, a wide range of perspectives and a wide range of districts represented,
04:46and I've got to get to 217 votes to get this thing over the line. So as much as we can in as big
04:52increment as we can, I think we've achieved that here, and I just want them to remember that we've
04:57got to deal within the realm of what's possible. So in addition to people like Senator Johnson,
05:02who think this bill doesn't do enough to, to cut spending, you're going to have to convince people
05:07like Susan Collins of Maine and Josh Hawley of Missouri, who are worried about cuts that this bill
05:13proposes. President Trump repeatedly insisted he would not touch Medicaid, and that Americans
05:18would not lose their insurance. Here's what he said just five days ago.
05:23We're not changing Medicaid, and we're not changing Medicare, and we're not changing Social Security.
05:29Can you guarantee that your voters, your support of the new election, your working-class voters,
05:34will not lose health insurance under this bill?
05:37Oh, there will lose health insurance?
05:38The CBO found that nearly 8 million Americans will, in fact, lose their insurance coverage
05:43because of the changes this bill makes to Medicaid. So how do you reconcile that with what President
05:48Trump said?
05:51It's directly in line with what the president said. I've said the same. We are not cutting Medicaid
05:57in this package. There's a lot of misinformation out there about this, Jake. The numbers of Americans
06:03who are affected are those that are entwined in our work to eliminate fraud, waste, and abuse.
06:08And what do I mean by that? You've got more than 1.4 million illegal aliens on Medicaid.
06:14Medicaid is not intended for non-U.S. citizens. It's intended for the most vulnerable populations
06:18of Americans, which is pregnant women and young single mothers, the disabled, the elderly.
06:23They are protected in what we're doing because we're preserving the resources for those who need it
06:28most. You're talking about 4.8 million able-bodied workers, young men, for example,
06:33who are on Medicaid and not working. They are choosing not to work when they can.
06:37That is called fraud. They are cheating the system. When you root out those kinds of abuses,
06:42you save the resources that are so desperately needed by the people who deserve it and need it most.
06:48That's what we're doing. And that's why this is a... The morality of what we're doing here is
06:52precisely right. And it comports with all the public opinion polls. When people ask whether young
06:58men, for example, who are able-bodied and have no dependents should be working,
07:01everybody says yes. And that's what our package does. So these estimates that you're hearing
07:06are accurate, but it's dealing with those numbers of people in the population. And that's going to
07:12preserve the program and strengthen it for those who need it most.
07:15So 1.4 million people in your home state of Louisiana are on Medicaid. More than 800,000
07:22receive SNAP benefits, also known as food stamps. Is it your contention that if any of those
07:29Louisianans lose their benefits, it's because they shouldn't have been receiving them because
07:33they were committing waste fraud or abuse?
07:38Yeah. Look, my district, as every district in America, has people who are on the program who
07:42shouldn't. And when you're talking about... I keep using this example, a young, able-bodied
07:47man with no dependents, there's no reason he should not be working. We are the party about...
07:52that supports human dignity. And we find purpose and dignity in our work. It's good for the
07:56individuals involved. It's good for their community. It's good for society at large.
08:00When you're talking about work requirements, by the way, it's very flexible. It just means that
08:04you either work or you volunteer, do something meaningful in your community, or you're in a
08:09job or work training program. 20 hours a week. I mean, this is not some huge demand. If you're
08:15going to be on the public wagon, you have to do something to help pull it, if you're able.
08:19And again, Jake, the purpose of this is to preserve these very necessary, very important safety net
08:25programs for the people who actually need and deserve them, and not those who are gaming the system.
08:30And I think I'll go into any town hall anywhere in America, my district or otherwise, and explain
08:34this, and everyone nods in agreement and understands it. So the Democrats are trying to twist the facts.
08:39They're trying to put out misinformation because they're going to vote against this, and there's
08:44no way to defend it. What it means is they're going to be voting for more fraud, waste, and abuse
08:49instead of the elimination of it, which is what our package does. It's not just Democrats, though,
08:53right? I mean, there are voices in MAGA world sounding the alarm that cuts to Medicaid could really
08:58impact Trump's own supporters. Take a listen.
09:03Medicaid, you've got to be careful because a lot of MAGA is on Medicaid. I'm telling you,
09:06if you don't think so, you are dead wrong. Just can't take a Medex to it, although I would love to.
09:13This is real Medicaid benefit cuts. I can't support that. No Republican should support that.
09:17We're the party of the working class, Mono. We need to act like it.
09:20That was Steve Bannon and Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri. What is your response to them?
09:25Yeah, look, I don't disagree with that. Of course, there's lots of people on Medicaid and in our
09:32party and in others. But again, if they look at the final package and the details of what has come
09:38through the House, I think we reached the right point. And, Jake, it also brings out the very
09:42important point that we're trying to do this on a very aggressive timetable. The reason I tried to get
09:47this done, and we did get it done, before Memorial Day and send it to the Senate,
09:51and so the president could be signing this into law by Independence Day on July 4th.
09:55Why is that so important? Because we've got to get relief to the American people,
09:58and then we also need to, for political purposes, show, give a lot of time,
10:02enough time for everyone to see that this package actually is what we say. It's going to help the
10:07country. It's going to help the economy. It's going to help all boats to rise, just as we did
10:12after the first two years of the first Trump administration. And so we're anxious to get
10:16this signed into law so people feel it and see it before that midterm election. And they understand
10:20it is the Republicans who are doing the best for hardworking Americans, low-income families,
10:25and everyone who deserves a better shot. I want to ask you about something else.
10:29President Trump held a closed-door event Thursday night for top investors in his private cryptocurrency.
10:35We do not know who was there. The list has not been released. We do not know how much of the
10:40money came from outside the country. The president has, of course, a huge role
10:45to play when it comes to regulation, regulating crypto. I really have a difficult time imagining
10:50that if this was a Democratic president doing the exact same thing, you wouldn't be outraged.
10:57Well, look, I don't know anything about the dinner. I was a little busy this past week,
11:00as you know, getting the reconciliation package over the line. And so I'm not going to comment on
11:05something I haven't even heard about. I'm not sure who was there or what the purpose was. But I'll say this,
11:09President Trump is very active. He's very engaged. He's the greatest dealmaker,
11:15one of the greatest dealmakers of all time. He is working on these trade imbalances that we've had
11:20and having tremendous success. We've got over 75 countries now renegotiating their trade agreements
11:25with America. It's going to make it better for all of us, everybody in the country. And he is encouraging
11:30new technologies, crypto and the advancement of AI. He's appointed a czar for the first time.
11:36We have an AI czar in David Sachs, who's an expert in the industry from Silicon Valley.
11:41There's a lot of exciting things happening. The president is trying to encourage that along
11:46as much as he can. And I think the vast majority of the country is applauding those efforts. So
11:50I'm one of them. I think that the result of all this is going to be extraordinary for
11:54everybody in the country.
11:55You oversaw, as Speaker, a congressional investigation into President Biden's
12:00ties to his son Hunter's questionable business dealings to enrich him.
12:06You seem to think it was your responsibility to look into this sort of thing then.
12:10Yeah, Jake, important distinction. The Biden crime family, as they were named, earned that title.
12:20Why? Because they used shell companies, fake LLCs, series of what appeared to be money-laundering
12:26operations. And Hunter Biden, of course, with his difficult past and the corruption in his past,
12:33the family on the public dole or on the president's dole. You know, the president lied about his
12:39involvement in the business dealings, all of that. The evidence just piled up. And by the way,
12:43at the same time, the evidence of his diminished mental capacity, subject of your book, of course,
12:49I wish it had been published a year earlier, because everybody saw it. Everybody saw what was
12:53happening. He used the auto pin. And by the way, there's investigations right now going on in the
12:57House. Jamie Comer and the Oversight Committee will be investigating the use of the auto pin when
13:03the president's mental capacity declined and whether all those things are even legally valid
13:08now, given the obvious fact that he was not the one making the decisions. It's huge implications
13:14from all this. And so I think the American people had reason to doubt. And we had great reason and I
13:20think a responsibility to investigate those things. The difference, of course, is that President Trump
13:24does everything out in the open. He's not trying to hide anything. There's no shell companies or
13:28fake LLCs or fake family businesses. He's putting it out there so everybody can evaluate for themselves.
13:35On the book, I wish the more than 200 people that talked to me and Alex Thompson, my co-author,
13:40after Election Day, I sure wish that they had talked to us a year ago. I agree with you on that.
13:45But on this matter with the crypto, shouldn't we at least just know who was at the dinner? Wouldn't you
13:49want to know that list of people? I guess. I mean, again, I don't know
13:55anything about that dinner. I do know that President Trump is the most transparent president
13:59in the most transparent administration probably in history. He has nothing to hide. And he's out
14:05there trying to advance America's interests. That's what America first policies are all about.
14:08And that's what our big reconciliation bill will deliver for the people. We're really proud of the product.
14:12Mr. Speaker, I know you have a lot of military veterans and Gold Star families in your congressional
14:19district. I know your son is at Annapolis. I wish you a meaningful and peaceful Memorial Day
14:25weekend. Thank you so much for being with us today. Same to you, my friend. God bless.