On today’s episode, Editor in Chief Sarah Wheeler talks with Lead Analyst Logan Mohtashami about housing data, mortgage rates and Trump’s tweet about releasing Fannie and Freddie from conservatorship.
Related to this episode:
Trump says he’s giving ‘serious consideration’ to releasing Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac | HousingWire
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/trump-says-hes-giving-serious-consideration-to-releasing-fannie-mae-freddie-mac/
Purchase applications see 16 weeks of positive YOY growth | HousingWire
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/purchase-applications-see-16-weeks-of-positive-yoy-growth/
Enjoy the episode!
The HousingWire Daily podcast brings the full picture of the most compelling stories in the housing market reported across HousingWire. Each morning, listen to editor in chief Sarah Wheeler talk to leading industry voices and get a deeper look behind the scenes of the top mortgage and real estate stories. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
Related to this episode:
Trump says he’s giving ‘serious consideration’ to releasing Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac | HousingWire
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/trump-says-hes-giving-serious-consideration-to-releasing-fannie-mae-freddie-mac/
Purchase applications see 16 weeks of positive YOY growth | HousingWire
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/purchase-applications-see-16-weeks-of-positive-yoy-growth/
Enjoy the episode!
The HousingWire Daily podcast brings the full picture of the most compelling stories in the housing market reported across HousingWire. Each morning, listen to editor in chief Sarah Wheeler talk to leading industry voices and get a deeper look behind the scenes of the top mortgage and real estate stories. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Welcome, everyone. My guest today is lead analyst Logan Motoshami to talk about housing data,
00:11mortgage rates, and that very interesting tweet from Trump about Fannie and Freddie.
00:16First, I want to say thank you to our sponsor, Rocket Close, for making this episode possible.
00:23Logan, welcome back to the podcast.
00:25What a great day. We have so many topics to talk about today, and this week has been fun.
00:35Like for nerdy, nerdy economic people, this week has been fun. There's been a lot of things that
00:40have been talked about that I'm just having so much fun with, but yeah, I'm ready to go.
00:45Okay, well, let's start with, because I know we have a lot of topics, let's start with the housing
00:50data for this week. So one of the things that, of course, what we track is purchase application
00:56data, and we track it a little bit different than everybody, but it's part of the tracker.
01:01And it's also a very confusing data line at times. So when we wrote that article yesterday,
01:06we try to make sense of it. Purchase application data is now up 16 straight weeks. The last three
01:13weeks are now up double digits year over year. Now, purchase apps look out 30 to 90 days. So it
01:20might take even two to three months before it actually even filters into the existing home sales
01:26report. But because of what happened last year, it gave a very, very low bar. Last year, the data was
01:34very negative. In the first 18 weeks of the year, starting from the end of January,
01:43we had 14 negative prints, two flat, two positives, no year over year. Home sales weren't crashing or
01:49anything. They're just hovering around here. And that's what existing home sales have been doing.
01:52It's just been hovering. So because we had such a low bar, and because the 10-year yield actually fell
01:57to start the year after January 14th, we're showing year over year growth. So we get a little bit more
02:03mortgage buyers. It looks like cash buyers are down a little bit, but this is all happening with
02:08elevated rates. So new listings data is growing. And then what we see is with active inventory and
02:17new listings data and mortgage demand slightly up with elevated rates, you cannot ask for anything
02:22better considering what we have to deal with, right? If mortgage rates were down to 6% and we saw this
02:28data line, it wouldn't have been that big of a deal. But every year wages grow, every year households
02:34form, every year when you're working from very, very low levels of demand, historical low levels of
02:40how I call it, it's the lowest home sales ever. When you have that backdrop time, as long as price
02:46growth cools down, you're building in a better affordability case. Because I can't still, as always,
02:52can't go under 5.75 in this environment for mortgage rates until the labor market breaks. But
02:58what happened with the unhealthy housing market mid-2020, it's funny because we're going back to
03:06our tweets. Sarah, we are literally in May. We looked at May 21st, 2020. And I'm sitting there
03:13thinking, oh my God, home prices are too strong. Nobody understands what's going on. We did this whole
03:19thing back on May, May of 2020 when everybody was still in depression mode. It just shows how
03:25untalented people are. By the way, I encourage everyone, come to our YouTube page, Housing Wire
03:30Daily. We have a YouTube page. We are going to get these scrub guys underneath in the comment sections
03:35to do a live debate and get their names and faces. And homie, Chart Poppy is going to make a man out of
03:40you. You're going to go back to your wife and you're going to say, Chart Daddy did it, man. I'm not a coward
03:45anymore. We're going to talk. We're going to do forecast and modeling. But it was really, it's
03:49really interesting now that why I'm happy is that I'm finally getting the balance, the supply and
03:55demand equilibrium balance. And that's what the existing home sales report showed. Again, inventory
03:59is growing, right? We're a little bit ahead of them, but it's catching up to us. And you could not,
04:06considering where rates are, this is what you want. If home prices, if it was like 2023, 2023 was
04:14terrible. New listings, data, all-time lows. Inventory wasn't really growing. Sales were low.
04:18Price growth ended up almost 6%. No, no, no advantage, disadvantage, or no advantage in that
04:27situation. But here, it's going, right? And what we've always said, it reminds me a lot of the 1980s,
04:33except the 1980s had two recessions and mortgage rates fell. But you put yourself in a better backdrop
04:39for the future. And whenever you have an explosion of prices, especially in a qualified
04:44mortgage world, that supply and demand equilibrium needs to be fixed. And it could only happen if
04:49you're part of team higher rates. So good. So far this year, and the fact that purchase apps are still
04:56positive for 16 straight weeks shows that that underlying demand curve is there. If you had rates
05:01near six, like we could do six. We've done that before a few years. You get more demand growth.
05:06We saw that data better last year when mortgage rates headed towards six and our forward-looking
05:12pending sales data was getting better and applications were getting better itself. So
05:17I can see that. I can see that right there. It's getting, and it's just positive in that light,
05:24which a lot of people, it sounds weird for people to say that, but I'm not a fan of 2020, 2021,
05:32or early 2022, more of a fan now, because this thing's going to be here for decades and decades
05:38to come. You've got to find that balance and that equilibrium.
05:41Okay. So first of all, you called yourself Chart Poppy and I will not have that.
05:45Chart Poppy. Oh yes. By the way, to the person who, the person who came up with that name too.
05:51Good.
05:52Now, okay. It sounds like you've gone from Chart Daddy and now you're older and now you're the
05:56Chart Grandpa, Chart Poppy. I don't know.
05:58No, no, no, no, no. When people hear the term Chart Poppy, they know what we're talking about. So
06:05that was a good nickname. We are getting all these good nicknames and stuff this year.
06:09Okay. So that's another one that's going over my head. I'm like, I don't know what that is. Okay.
06:13That's because you're an elderly Gen X, Sarah Wheeler.
06:17I am a proud elderly Gen X. I will take it. Okay. So I think one of the things that you mentioned
06:24in there, but did it pretty quickly was the inventory situation. So you're talking about
06:28the fact that purchase applications are good. Part of that is people have more options that
06:34they can choose from. Like you said, it's not like some giant amount, but inventory is up.
06:39So my problem with the housing market in 2020 was that inventory broke to all-time lows and it just
06:48had like a, almost like in a sense, a, a, a water slide down with no inventory growth at all.
06:54That does not happen. That was not a normal event. Of course it's COVID, right? So the irony was in
07:002021, by the way, so I know a lot of people remember this 2021 mortgage rates were near 3%.
07:06Everyone's like, Oh my God, mortgage rates are at 3%. Everybody's going to sell their house.
07:11Inventory is going to explode. New listings data was like,
07:15right. That's like near record lows. Uh, the inventory channel was somewhat normal,
07:21but no, it didn't work out that way. So I needed inventory to grow. And it's very hard
07:26in that environment. As you all can see, for those of you that's seen how, how we present inventory,
07:33inventory data is much different after 2010 than it was in the eighties, nineties, and two thousands,
07:38where we have rising sales and rising inventory. That is the chef kiss. If you get that back,
07:43you you're in a, you're in a great world here because of qualified mortgage inventory channels
07:48have, we have now 14 kind of years of data on this to work off of, uh, again, 70 to 80% of sellers
07:56or buyers, you have 20 to 30% inventory left. So mortgage demand millennials were the biggest
08:01home buyers in America, like only two years in the last, you know, uh, 11 that they lose that.
08:06That's when we're in rates were elevated. The baby boomers took them. But when they buy homes,
08:10they don't give you a house. Elderly millennials can do that now. But so it was just hard to get
08:15active inventory to, to grow in that environment. But now we're almost there. Like I'm telling you,
08:20Sarah, when we get to like 1.52 to 1.93 million NAR data, at least there's no low inventory talk for
08:29me. I am. You will never hear me say that because that's how I was in the last decade. There was
08:35plenty of inventory, right? Days on markets were fine. Everything. Of course, the Northeast is
08:40much different than, uh, than, uh, the rest of the country. They're still. So that's why I want
08:442019 active inventory. Cause even though it's not a lot historically choices, price growth doesn't go
08:51out of hand. So when the next time with rates do fall to 6%, we have a better backdrop. We have more
08:57supply. We don't play the hungry, hungry hippo game, all that unhealthy, savagely unhealthy housing
09:02market ends, goes away. Uh, so it, for me, just me personally, uh, you, you, you have to be team
09:09higher rates to get a benefit. And this is the benefit, right? Even though demand is still at
09:14record lows, history has shown eventually at some point the demand starts to rise. We're in a better
09:19backdrop for that to occur. Okay. Let's talk about existing home sales, existing home sales. Now this
09:25is the interesting part. Our purchase application data that we're seeing is now year over year growth
09:30all the time, but our pending, uh, sales data, we have a total pending sales data that we show on the
09:36tracker. We also have a weekly version of it that tends to be a little bit volatile. That is only
09:41recently shown year over year growth. Now going out for the rest of the, uh, yes, the year until
09:49October, the existing home sales is going to have a very, very low bar, like, like four of the next five
09:55months are going to have under 4 million home sales, uh, from last year. So because that's the
10:01low bar, our pending, uh, uh, sales data is actually showing growth. If, if existing home sales just
10:08stays on this trend, you're going to have like a few months of year over year growth. So anything
10:12better on that sense, and remember purchase apps, look out 30 to 90 days, you can get a little bit of
10:16growth out there. And that's kind of how we try to explain the, uh, purchase application data.
10:21That's kind of why we say that I think this report will have actually a miss in estimates.
10:25So it was a slight miss. When you look at the grand picture of home sales after November 9th,
10:302020, it's gone nowhere. It's just basically bouncing the bouncing ball off the thing. Uh,
10:36but this year is a little bit different because we never got rates down towards 6%. We never have,
10:41we've never had purchase application data grow on a, on a year of year basis with rates, this
10:46a high. So encouraging all this stuff is encouraging, but today now the,
10:51the only thing is that my, my home price forecast so far now I use the Case-Shiller index as my
10:57metric. Um, some, I'm not a big fan of median sales prices anyway, but some people will use
11:04the NAR data. Some people use Zillow. Zillow tends to be lower than everyone else's because how they
11:08track their data with condos and everything where Case-Shiller and, and FHFA is a single family.
11:14Um, but so far this year, every single month, my price forecast has been below where the NAR data
11:23is. However, this month is 1.8%. I have 1.77%. So I need lower than what I forecast to make this
11:33year work for me. Last year, I thought that was going to be the case at 2.33, but when rates fell
11:40towards 6%, I lost my forecast. We ended up like a 4% last year, but again, positive trend, right?
11:47Lower prices, low price growth for slowing down more inventory, more traces builds up the affordability
11:53better. So when rates do get to even 6%, you get a little bit better affordability curve going out
11:59there. The easy answer for me is always, you know, if you can get sub 6% rates, you could grow sales
12:04easily from here. That's, that's a given, but I just, for me, I just, I, I, if I can't forecast it,
12:09I'm not going to model it out until we see labor breaking and jobless claims came out today. Uh,
12:15still, still healthy. Still, we don't see any breaks in the labor market on that data line yet.
12:20So I love that you're, um, you're highlighting what the positive story is. Cause there is a
12:25positive story. We've seen that people are had a really good month, right? A really good two months,
12:30but you just brought up the negative part, which is the rate. So let's talk about the,
12:34the macro environment and some of the other things happening that are keeping rates where they're
12:39at. But by the way, the, the hilarious aspect, we had a 20 year, uh, uh, auction. It wasn't even
12:46that bad. What do you, what do you mean auction? What are you talking about? So there's a, there's
12:51a bond auction that goes off. It happens a lot. So there was a 20 year bond auction. It wasn't even
12:56that bad of a, but bond auction, but, but it looks like liquidity. We had corporate debts issues this
13:01week and everything. So bond yields went up five or six basis points and everyone freaked out,
13:06even though the 10 year yield is basically not even at year to date highs. I, Sarah, we have way too
13:14many marshmallow men on social media sites. Oh my God. See, this is a problem. What social media has
13:21made men is become drama Queens. Like yields go up. Oh my God. Reinflation yields go to, oh my God,
13:29recession. Everything is bad in this. And this has been going on for like 14 years. And this is,
13:35this is like a culture thing where guys go on social media and they put up doom porn drama Queens.
13:41And it's just like, it does, it's, it's, it's almost embarrassing, but I thought about this.
13:47Everyone is saying that, well, nobody likes Trump's a budget plan. So the bar, so this is it. This is
13:55the main reason bond traders are like, because the debt is so big. I'm like, okay, 1990s house party,
14:02roll them up. Gee, bring them out. In the 1990s, debt was lower. Debt to GDP lower. Deficits were
14:12lower. 10 year and 30 year yields much higher. I just put the chart out at everyone. Everyone's
14:18like, don't know what to do. They don't know what to say. I'm like, go back, go look at the debt to
14:23GDP back then. Go look at the deficits back then. Go look at the debt. Much lower 10 year yield,
14:29much higher. The 10 year yield didn't even like really get to 480 until the 2001 recession. We had
14:34a brief pull down in the late 1990s because there was world market stress, but the 30 year, 30 year
14:40was like a 9% at the early part of the decade. So if we're going to make it about debt and deficits
14:47and the budget, then we should be talking about the 10 year yield going to six, seven, 8%,
14:54the 30 year yield going to seven, eight. And I show the chart. I got a lot of smart people on
15:00Twitter doing this and then nothing. No, nobody knows what to say because back then debt was a
15:08lot lower. Rates were a lot higher. So again, we always like to keep this simple. 65 to 75% of where
15:14that 10 year yield can range is still Fed policy, right? Policy was much different back then.
15:20And inflation, if you look at the 1990 CPI headline was like, I think a little bit above 5% in the
15:25early nineties, got down to 2% debt deficit. Still, still with a two handle on CPI inflation,
15:3110 year yield, much higher, 30 year yield, much higher. So Fed policy still runs the show.
15:37And this can explain why the 10 year yield today is, I think the last time I saw it was 456. So
15:43I woke up and I told her, is everyone okay? Everyone okay. Did everyone survive that 20 year
15:48bought auction? Really? And then it seemed like everyone survived. God. Oh, what marshmallows?
15:57How do you guys want to play ball when you put this soft all the time?
16:01Okay. So let's, let's walk through that a little bit. So, you know, it, what, what you're saying is
16:07the, the economy still is doing really well. Like we're not seeing, we're not seeing the,
16:12the job loss that we thought jobless claims didn't break. And that's what the,
16:16that's what the Fed is going to base their next cut on. Correct.
16:20So two jobs reports ago, um, the labor data was fine. The labor week data was fine. And the 10 year
16:28yield was like shooting down lower because the Godzilla tariffs, the market was not ready for
16:35Godzilla tariffs. So it pushed bond yields below 4%. I got my, I almost got my entire 10 year yield
16:41channel already are filled out. And I was like, guys, the labor data is not, we should be at 435.
16:48Right. So as long as the labor data is holding up, especially now that inflation expectations are
16:54rising, you know, the Fed is telling us this 435 to 470 is perfectly acceptable. Right. And jobless claims
17:01still low, uh, continuing claims might be elevated from the lows, but they're still on a historically low
17:07basis. So the labor market isn't breaking. Now, if you're a labor market person, labor has to break
17:13over inflation. That's what you're looking at, which is very interesting because, uh, JD Vance,
17:18uh, gave an interview yesterday and he was like, uh, we were told that the dollar would go up if we,
17:24we did these tariffs and that because the dollar would go off the imports, would it be inflationary?
17:30So we have to show some humility, the economic profession. I, I, I, I'm trying to grab this.
17:37Did Steve Myron actually tell them that if you do Godzilla tariffs, the dollar would actually go up
17:42much higher and whatever you import won't have. So I'm assuming that that's what they're angry about
17:49because for Vance to do a national interview and say that is that we were told this and it didn't
17:55happen. So we're trying to figure it out. Boy, that's, that's, that's very telling. We always talk
17:59about the dollar is going to go down, right? If this happens, the dollar goes down, uh, 10 year
18:03yields. But in this case, they have the dollar lower. The 10 year yield is elevated right now
18:10for them. And apparently they weren't looking for the dollar to go lower out here. And now you could
18:16see why Trump is telling companies, Hey, eat it, eat the tariffs, just eat it. Who was that singer back
18:23in the eighties? He did that. Come on. Oh, you remember just eat it. It was a, it was a spit
18:29off of Michael Jackson. Uh, so who was that guy? It was a guy with the mustache. Yes. Weird
18:37owl. It's a weird owl. Oh, is weird owl still alive? He is. Yes. He is. I love weird owl. Come
18:46on. Okay. Um, okay. So that's interesting because when you were looking at what they were
18:52doing, you said from the beginning, you're like, what they're trying to do with these
18:55tariffs is get the dollar lower. And so it was a surprise to you that you're like, oh,
19:00they didn't know. I couldn't believe it. I thought it was a, I thought it was a joke.
19:04I thought people were like, I, I thought it was a spoof. They made up a quote or something.
19:09And then I went and I actually read the interview. I was like, what, you know, is that, is that
19:14how they based it? See, now that just changes my whole mindset. They, they, if they were
19:20really looking for the dollar to go much stronger and then do the tariffs and then kind of like,
19:26you know, China devalues their currency to offset, you know, what the U S does. I'm thinking,
19:32oh, wow, that there's some drama going on in the white house. If that's the case, because
19:38now you've got the dollar lower, you've got bond yields higher. That was not the game plan.
19:42Right. And now you got to do trade deals and Japan's holding back. I always thought like the
19:49news from Japan was actually more important. The trade deals with Japan aren't really going
19:52as, as, as well. And China was rattling some things. So very interesting week. God, it was,
19:59it was really fun because if you think about, they went into this thinking the dollar would be
20:03stronger, but if they want to export stuff, they need the dollar weaker. Like what's going on here.
20:08And then also now Freddie and Fannie. They threw that. Let's talk about that because, um, so just
20:15yesterday on this podcast, uh, James Kleiman and I, he, he had been at the secondary, uh, conference
20:21NBA and, you know, uh, Bob Brooks was up there and said, yeah, we don't see any, you know, we don't see
20:26this happening. We don't see an appetite for it, which is what we've all seen that like it, they don't
20:30have the things in place, whatever. And then last night, like, I don't know, like five 30, six 30,
20:36something like that. The president tweets out that, you know, he is, is giving it serious
20:40consideration to release Fannie and Freddie. And we're like, what, where is this coming from? So
20:45give me your take, because I know you have a specific take on this.
20:51I've always thought this is a terrible idea. I have written about this for many, many years.
20:56It is a functioning marketplace with them in conservatorship because they don't have to go
21:02out in public and raise $300 billion, right? They are making money hands and fix and they're
21:09giving it to the treasury, right? So there's no tax risk or anything, boy, they're giving money to
21:15the treasury out here. Um, if it is true that they are going to try to create a, a, a government
21:24asset class, okay, this gets into a real, real different type of conversation with Freddie and
21:29Fannie. This isn't about, this is about the United States government taking Freddie and Fannie and
21:35saying, Hey, do you guys want to own this? We'll give you preferred shares. We'll take the money in.
21:42Okay. So this is different. This isn't about the housing market. This is about, you know,
21:47you need more money to go to the government to maybe, uh, uh, uh, get more money to the treasury.
21:52If, if they are moving into an area to where it's more about, uh, uh, getting more money into the
21:59hands of the U S as an asset class, that's a whole different thing than, okay, let's just get Freddie
22:04and Fannie out of government, take the treasury off. See, if they took the treasury, uh, uh, back stuff
22:09off, uh, that's going to be very messy, right? Freddie and Fannie are just simply too big. So, um,
22:16I'm assuming because not a lot of things have worked out like the white house wants, if they're
22:22talking about this, I'm assuming they're going into this thinking they want to make Freddie and
22:27Fannie a financial asset that everyone in the world could invest in or some, something to that
22:31nature, uh, uh, out there. But I've not been a fan of getting them out of conservatorship because not
22:37only do we not have to worry about them as publicly true, because once you're a publicly traded company,
22:41you are shareholder first. And when there's credit stress or market stress, you have to
22:48tighten your credit. I don't know if they could raise enough money and raise enough capital for
22:53it to work. And, and as a, as a publicly traded company, you have to price risk much higher for
23:01places like Florida or places like Texas, you know? So I want to see what the plan is. I assumed before
23:08when they talked about, well, we can't do this without the treasury backing it, then it's not
23:12like really getting the government out of lending. But if this is really about a financial asset class
23:18and, uh, doing prefer it's, it's a whole different ballgame. So I'm going to hold judgment until I see
23:23what the game plan is, but this looks a little bit different to me than what, uh, Mark Calabrio wanted
23:30to do, uh, uh, back then, but just remember that one of the greatest heroes in the United States
23:36America was Mark Calabrio because, because Freddie and Fannie were in conservatorship. They had
23:42successful forbearance for there, all the, the lending was functioning well during COVID and
23:47everything. And he'll go down in history as one of the greatest government enterprise helping the
23:51United States of America. And I know he's going to hate that because it was government stepping in,
23:57not the, not the, uh, uh, private sector. So we'll see what the final outcome is, but now I'm just
24:04like, I don't know what they're, what they're going to do. And for them to, to say this now,
24:08this looks like to me that they are going to do something on the financial side with them to maybe
24:15make them a, a, cause they make money, man. These people do make a lot of money and they give the
24:20money to the treasury. So we'll see, we'll see how that works. But if it is, if, if, if they just make
24:26them publicly traded companies and then the treasury says, we'll backstop you whenever we need it.
24:31But that's somewhat a workable case because you don't have to worry about a liquidity problems
24:36then. But, uh, uh, uh, I know a lot of people are asking about this after that tweet. I'm just
24:41going to say, let's just wait to see what the real game plan is here for them to do it now.
24:47Yeah. Is there something else out here? But the fact that Trump says I'm in serious consideration,
24:52that to me means he's not 100% in there yet. So we'll see, we'll see what happens when they talk
24:57about this, uh, going out in the future. Wow. Wow. Wow. So much. And it's only Thursday. We are
25:03recording this on Thursday. All of this happened in like the last couple of days. It's been a good
25:07week. There's been a lot going on, uh, out there. So, uh, hopefully for those that read the article,
25:12I try to give context on the purchase application data. It's like you were really using a very low
25:17bar. And last year we had, you know, year over year, double digit year over year declines,
25:22but home sales weren't really like crashing or doing anything. So just remember it's really rare
25:30in America for home sales to go under 4 million on the monthly side. We still haven't closed under
25:354 million. We're at such low levels of sales considering our household. That's why I always
25:39say it's the lowest home sales ever. When you take the workforce household, everything out there,
25:44sales are so low. So it doesn't take much to move the needle. This is the year that for purchase
25:48application data, it really didn't take much to move the needle, but, uh, other, other positive
25:54things. Again, if you're a pro supply person, this is what you want. The only, the only caveat to all
25:59this is that, uh, today on Twitter, I talked about because active inventory is growing. What you can
26:06make a case is that unless rates fall, uh, housing construction has peaked in this decade. So that's
26:14the thing. If, if, if rates don't fall single family permits where they were in single family
26:18starts for the rest of this decade, we shouldn't get there ever again. That's not good. Because
26:23there's more supply now, right? The majority of all supply in this country comes from the existing
26:28home sales market and it gets harder for the builders, right? They had an advantage for a while.
26:33Their total completed units were low. Active inventory was low. They could pay down rates. It's
26:38a little bit different now. So, uh, um, uh, we talked about that on social media today that
26:44you can make a really good case that housing construction has already peaked for this decade.
26:49Logan, thank you so much for walking through all of those things with us. Of course, we will be
26:53talking again soon and the tracker will be out this weekend and people should come and see you
26:59at our, um, amazing, the gathering event. We have an amazing couple of days out there at the
27:05Broadmoor and Colorado Springs. You're a featured speaker. Can't wait to hear your keynote. So
27:10people, Oh my God. You just gave me an idea. I'm going to go on stage and go just eat it.
27:16Just eat it. I got to go back and get the, get the words to that song. It is. Have some fun. Yeah.
27:22I actually know all the words to that song. Cause my kids do weird Al. Yes.
27:27Come on. Give me, give me at least, give me at least, uh, two lines. Come on, come on,
27:31come on, Wheeler. You should not have said that. No, Wheeler, come on. Don't, don't,
27:36you said you could do it. Just give me two lines. Just two lines.
27:40No, I don't remember them off the top of my head. I do know all the words. Okay. I, I, you know,
27:46I'm, I'm not like you, Logan. Those things don't come. So, but let me, let me think. Okay. Hold on
27:50here. So I remember when it said, um, okay, just, just eat it, eat it, open up your mouth and feed it.
27:57Um, have some more yogurt, have some more spam. It doesn't matter if it's fresh or canned just eat
28:06it. Yeah. I mean, I, it's bad. It's bad. I'm just telling you that this is going to be something I
28:10regret. I can, I can see that already, but yeah, there's something about like captain crunch raisin
28:15brand. Oh, captain crunch and raisin brands. Oh, bring me back to the 1980s again. Oh, I love it.
28:23Yeah. Now actually, uh, you see all the advertisements for like, Oh, cereal. It's
28:29like your comfort food. It's like, yeah, because you know, they used to feed us that. And it was
28:33like, Oh, this is your, this is your healthy breakfast. No, there's nothing healthy about
28:37that. So yeah. If you ever want to know the, one of the biggest scams ever in history, it was the food
28:41pyramid ever created. If there was one thing that was absolutely just utter garbage, the food pyramid
28:48was the greatest fraud ever. I know I lived through that. I absolutely. Okay. Well,
28:55it's always a pleasure, Logan. Thank you so much.