00:00Hi, everyone. I'm Maggie McGrath, senior editor at Forbes. A new bill in Texas seeks to define
00:10consent and what it means. The problem is this bill is running up against a very tight deadline
00:17to have a hearing. That deadline is this week. And joining us now are two people who are at the
00:24heart of this issue, State Senator Angela Paxton and survivor Summer Willis. Thank you both for
00:29sitting down with Forbes. Glad to be here. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Senator,
00:36I'll start with you. I described this in very broad strokes. There is a bill that is known as
00:42the Summer Willis Act that the Texas legislature could consider, but it is yet to be scheduled
00:46for a hearing. Can you tell us more first, what is the context of this bill? Well, consent is an idea
00:56that in Texas law and other states have this same issue, that Texas law really lists what is not
01:03consent, but it doesn't actually say what is consent. And so that's one of the gaps that this bill is
01:11aiming to close so that we can address the ambiguity that sometimes comes up in these cases.
01:19And on the timeline aspect, I was talking to your staff right before you came on. I know it gets
01:24tricky sometimes to state legislatures, but what is the deadline and how important is it right now?
01:31Well, it is, it is pretty tight on the time. We've got two more weeks left in the session.
01:36So we really need to get a hearing on this bill this week. There's a committee hearing
01:41for, for the bill. Well, the committee that this bill would go through is having a hearing tomorrow.
01:49Um, we are not at this time set to hear, that doesn't mean we can't be heard later this week,
01:55but, um, of course I'm doing everything I can to get us added to the committee, um, agenda for tomorrow.
02:02We'll come back to tomorrow's agenda, but before we go there, I want to bring Summer into this
02:08conversation. This bill has been around for a few years, but it's newly coined in your name.
02:13How did you come to have this bill named after you? Yeah, well, it started 10 years ago when I was,
02:23I became a victim. So a title I never wanted to have, but as a sophomore at the University of Texas
02:30and for years and years, I let the depression and the PTSD eat away at me and I became a shell of
02:38myself. Uh, it wasn't until I found that doing good helped. So I joined Teach for America and the
02:47Peace Corps got married and had kids, but sexual assault is a shadow that's always hanging around.
02:56And so I decided to finally do something about it. And I ran 29 marathons in a year as a way to
03:06heal. But along the way, I met survivors across this country and heard their stories and realized
03:12they were just so similar to mine and I had to do something about it. So when I heard about this
03:17bill to finally define consent, to finally make my rape actually a rape in Texas, because it was
03:23considered one of these loopholes, I had to do something. So I decided to crawl, uh, a marathon.
03:31I got to the halfway point, but as soon as I finished the marathon, some, some congressmen
03:39and representatives named the bill after me, I think they saw what I'm trying to do for survivors.
03:43And I, yeah, it was the biggest honor. And now I'm fighting for it with everything I can.
03:50Now you mentioned a loophole that I think is really important to this overall story. Summer,
03:54I'll start with you. Can you describe in layman's terms, what the loophole in Texas law is
03:58that affected you? Yeah, the specific one that affected me was I was handed a drink at a fraternity
04:07party and I took it and someone else took advantage of me. Um, and because I voluntarily drank, uh,
04:19it doesn't count that someone else raped me. And so, yeah.
04:24And Senator Paxton, what Summer has just described sounds like a typical college experience. Someone
04:33hands you a drink. The, the drug being inside is, is not, is not what anyone should experience, but
04:39zooming out, it sounds like it should be a bipartisan issue. Does this bill have bipartisan support?
04:47It absolutely does. I'm a Republican. I'm carrying this bill in the Senate. Uh, the author in the house
04:51is a Democrat, uh, Donna Howard. We worked on a lot of, um, legislation regarding sexual assault.
04:58Um, and I, I might mention that, uh, you know, Summer has worked with, uh, our governor's sexual
05:04assault task force and has his backing on this bill as well. And, uh, this is, you know, this Summer's
05:11story happened in Texas and we need to, we need to fix it in Texas. I, I also didn't realize this
05:17before, uh, today, uh, but, um, as Summer and I were visiting earlier, we actually did a resolution
05:25on the, on the Senate floor to just recognize and honor Summer for her advocacy around these issues,
05:35um, to be a voice for people who don't know how to speak, don't know who to speak to. Um,
05:43it's so important in, in a person's healing, uh, from any kind of traumatic experience, but especially
05:50sexual, sexual assault to be able to speak. And so Summer is really doing courageous, um, brave
05:56and resilient work. And, uh, she's the same age as my oldest daughter. So, you know, this, this feels
06:03very personal, uh, to me as well. I was also a school counselor and I worked with, um, young women
06:10all the time. And, you know, one of the things we have to work with, with girls, um, a lot as
06:16they're growing up is, is to, to speak, right. To, to have a voice. Um, there are pressures around
06:24girls speaking up that just persist, um, through many decades. Um, but especially when something like
06:30this happens, I'm just so proud of, of Summer and how she has really looked for ways, uh, to make a
06:38difference. And, and again, um, to the point of even working with the governor's office on this bill.
06:44So there's bipartisan support. There's a deadline looming and part of the deadline, I want to make
06:49clear for folks who aren't really familiar with Texas state politics, politics, the legislature
06:53meets once every two years. So when does this legislative session end?
07:00We end June 2nd.
07:02So that's June 2nd and then doesn't meet again until.
07:06We won't meet again until 2027 in January, unless the governor calls a special session. Um, but special
07:15sessions are restricted in content to specific legislative directives from the governor. So, um,
07:24that would, you know, that's not typically, uh, how something like this would come about. Um,
07:30so it's very important that we, we get this hearing this week so that we can pass the bill on the floor
07:36and, um, you know, I felt very encouraged after the resolution, uh, on the Senate floor this morning.
07:43Um, there was, uh, another Republican Senator actually, uh, uh, Senator Paul Bettencourt
07:49actually, um, moved that we add all senators names to the bill. So, you know, that expresses a sentiment
07:58of support. And so I, I think perhaps this will give us some momentum that we have pushed back
08:06against, uh, or had to, had to push back against, but it's, it's, uh, you know, we're, we're hopeful
08:11and I'm going to make several more runs at this. Um, and hopefully, uh, we will hit it for the score,
08:17but, um, chairman, uh, Pete Flores of the committee. And then of course the Lieutenant governor's
08:22support is very important. I was just about to ask, because you talk about the governor.
08:28He's supportive. We have bipartisan support here. So what's the hurdle? It sounds like it's the head
08:33of the committee and the Lieutenant governor. They're the two holdouts. It's hard to look at it
08:39and know exactly where the, the, um, issue is to be honest with you, but I am very encouraged,
08:45like I said, by the full member support on the resolution and what, um, summer is doing,
08:52that there is a willingness to look at this issue. And I'm, I'm hopeful for that. You know,
08:58we've done so much great work, uh, in the direction of, um, protecting victims of, um, or at least
09:06supporting, I guess, survivors of sexual assault in the legislature. And we've dealt with it in so many
09:12different contexts, you know, in schools, um, and trafficking. I mean, in all kinds of ways,
09:19we have shown support around this stuff. So, you know, this is moving, this is moving the bar. This
09:24is, this is not a slam dunk sort of thing. This is changing the definition of consent. And I was
09:32thinking earlier today, you know, we've all heard this, uh, saying your, you know, your, your lips say
09:39no, but your eyes say yes. And you know, it's been used as kind of a joke. It's not funny. It's not
09:44funny when you're talking about something that turns into rape. And we're talking about when someone
09:51is, um, impaired, then they, what we're saying is they are not in a position where they can give
09:58consent. They're impaired. And I, I don't know that we actually said this, but this affirmative
10:04definition of consent is assent in fact, whether express or apparent, but this aligns with other
10:13parts of the penal code. So this would bring, um, the, the law around, uh, sexual assault and consent
10:21in line with other ways that we define such things. So I think it's important. It's important
10:27to modernize. We know a lot more about these, uh, kinds of, um, crimes than we used to. We know
10:34a lot more about the impact of the trauma on the victims and how they can move to being survivors.
10:42They don't all move into being survivors. They may be sort of like the, the living dead. Um,
10:49they're operating in their life and they're doing the best they can, but they are dying inside because
10:54they don't know what to do. And it's something that should never have happened in the first place. So
10:59we need to make sure both parties are responsible, not just, uh, the victim or the survivor.
11:06Summer, you have taken your experience as a victim and survivor and used it for advocacy.
11:14What have you learned about changing hearts and minds? And, you know, we're talking about a Texas
11:19bill here, but I'm wondering if you could speak to the national implications and why folks across the
11:24country watching should, I don't want to say care because everyone should care that everyone is
11:30safe, but what's your message for folks who don't live in Texas and who might not be immediately
11:34affected by this bill? Yeah, well, I was absolutely shocked in October when the Texas Association
11:44Against Sexual Assault, uh, told me that my rape actually didn't count for 10 years. That's what I
11:51had called it. And because of this consent loophole, the worst thing that ever happened to me didn't
11:59count. There's 31 states in our country that have passed definitions of consent, but then there's all
12:07the other ones that haven't. And so I'd encourage people to look up like there are laws to, to figure
12:15out how their state's protecting survivors. And just, I was speaking at a gala the other night and I asked
12:23anyone who is affected or knows anyone who is affected by sexual assault to stand up in the whole
12:30auditorium with 300 people in it stood up, every single one. And it's like, this is something that
12:37people don't like to talk about. They like to keep it behind the closed doors. But realize when you're
12:41walking down the street, this affects everyone and we need everyone's help to come up. The last thing
12:48I'll say is after my rape, I felt so alone. I thought no one would understand it. I blamed myself. Um,
12:56but then today people showed up, senators stood up and clapped. People drove in from all over Texas to be
13:05at our press conference and I've never felt so loved. Um, and yeah, lean on your community.
13:15We're, we're here. Yeah.
13:17On your community. That is an important message. So Senator Paxton, we have this deadline. We have
13:23this timeline that we've been discussing. What is next for you? What do the next 24 hours look like
13:27in terms of what you can and will do to get this bill to a hearing?
13:31Well, I'll continue to have conversations, uh, with Senator Flores, uh, the chairman of the
13:37committee, asking him to, um, support the bill, to set it for a hearing. Um, I'll, I'll be reaching
13:44out to the Lieutenant Governor, encouraging him to be supportive. And, you know, the other thing that
13:49I would ask, um, for people that are listening or watching now, especially if they are in Texas,
13:55if they would, um, call, um, call and call Senator Flores, call the Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick
14:01and encourage them to support this bill. Um, the Summer Willis Act to, uh, provide a definition for
14:09consent. We, we still have time. And as long as there's daylight, I'm going to be working, uh,
14:15this bill to, to make sure that we get it across the finish line.
14:18Um, and Summer, last words from you, what is your message to the Forbes audience about this bill
14:25and anything else we haven't hit on that you think is important to share at this moment?
14:30Yeah, I, I feel like I'm a very average person. I couldn't run a mile when I started
14:37running marathons, signing up for 29 marathons in a year. I had no experience with politics before
14:46October, but I started to realize that we all have so much power and so much strength and that
14:53our voice matters. And if you, whatever you care about, you can be an advocate, you can fight for
15:01it. And if your cause happens to be sexual assault, if you want to help survivors, like,
15:08please call, please help us. I've been saying all day, I believe in miracles and I believe in people.
15:15And I think that the two of those working together, it's like, we, we can keep so many
15:20survivors safe. So yeah, thank you. Well, it's an important bill that you both are working on.
15:26We look forward to updates. We will be following this closely. And in the meantime, Senator Angela
15:31Paxton, Summer Willis, thank you so much for joining Forbes. We really appreciate your time.
15:36Thanks so much.
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