00:00Thank you. Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to follow up on your line
00:05of questioning. Basically, an unreliable backup means there is no backup, as far as I'm concerned.
00:12In aviation safety, critical systems need to be redundant and resilient. I know that
00:17VA has since implemented a software update to fix New Works backup, but it never should have a chance
00:22to fail in the first place. And there's absolutely no question that we need to fix our antiquated
00:27air traffic control facilities and equipment. Each one of you have been vocal voices for fixing the
00:32system across multiple administrations. We held a hearing examining that very issue last year,
00:38but a technological overhaul will take years, and we need to know what FAA is doing now to fix this.
00:44Mr. McIntosh, how often does FAA inspect air traffic control infrastructure at airports across the country
00:49to ensure that the backup systems will immediately kick in in the event of a radar and or communications
00:54failure? Basically, how often do you simulate the main system going down and to make sure
00:59and test the redundant system to make sure that it actually does kick in?
01:03There are required maintenance checks that our technicians do, and they are very vigilant in doing that.
01:09To answer your question, Senator Duckworth, I'm not aware if we have checks to make sure if we have two lines
01:15that go down at the same time. I will have to do an IOU and follow up on that to make sure I answer your question appropriately.
01:22If you could, that would be helpful. And if not, I would highly encourage that those checks happen.
01:28We all know that now. Prior to the April radar and communications outages affecting Newark,
01:33when was the last time FAA inspected the air traffic control infrastructure in Philadelphia and Newark
01:38to ensure that the backup system will kick in in the event of radar and or communications failure?
01:44And you can add that too. Yes, ma'am.
01:47Thank you. After the deadly crash near Reagan National Airport, FAA closed the helicopter route involved,
01:54but a lack of coordination between FAA and the Department of Defense has continued to put the flying public at risk.
01:58And we had this conversation already. If for some reason a military aircraft could not land at the Pentagon,
02:06I don't understand why it would circle around the building, putting itself into the flight path of DCA,
02:11without being directed to do so by ATC. There are many procedures that may perhaps are not published procedures,
02:18but are accepted at an airport. I mean, I used to land to Midway Airport where the procedure was circle around the tower,
02:25land to taxiway alpha, don't blow over all of the small aircraft parked in there.
02:30But I would never, even though that was established, something we did routinely,
02:33I would never, ever have executed that procedure without ATC directing me to do so.
02:38I could offer it to ATC. It's like, hey, how about to avoid the aircraft,
02:41can I just circle around, you know, the tower, land to taxiway alpha?
02:45But then I would never do it unless I was given permission to do so.
02:48Mr. McIntosh, FAA is responsible for establishing those routes.
02:51Has FAA established a helicopter route that circles the Pentagon?
02:57Is that an established landing procedure?
03:01Mr. Yes, ma'am.
03:02Mr. A circle to land? Is that a procedure around the Pentagon?
03:05Mr. Yes, ma'am. To answer your question, and you're a pilot and I'm a controller,
03:09so I'll be very frank with you, we have asked that question via our letter of agreement.
03:14And I think the larger question here, to be honest with you and to your point,
03:19what we assure, what we need to make sure that we assure is that everybody knows their responsibilities,
03:24which is, as a pilot, or even the heliport tower, you had an aircraft that you did not give a landing clearance to,
03:32or that aircraft aborted the landing, whatever occurred.
03:35That aircraft went back and entered Class Bravo airspace.
03:40That aircraft is not supposed to enter Class Bravo airspace without permission of air traffic control.
03:44That did not occur.
03:46My question, and I think the larger question is, is why did that not occur?
03:51Without compliance to our procedures and our policies, this is where safety drift starts to happen.
03:56And that's where my line of question is starting, is absent, even if absent a published go-around procedure,
04:03if we want to call it that, pilots and controllers have shared responsibilities.
04:09Do not enter Class Bravo airspace without authorization from air traffic control, and that is a question that we are asking.
04:15So, as we've established today, there clearly continues to be a serious lack of coordination between FAA and DOD on airspace near DCA.
04:22Will FAA produce a copy of the memorandum of understanding to this committee?
04:28If portions of this memorandum need to remain non-public, the committee can arrange, make arrangements for that.
04:34Can FAA do that?
04:35Senator Duckworth, I will make sure that we get the information that you're requesting.
04:41And how often are FAA air traffic controllers trained on the policies and procedures established in this MOU that governs the military flight operations near DCA?
04:51I'm sorry, ma'am, how often?
04:52Are they trained up on this particular memorandum?
04:55Are they aware of it? Is it something that gets reviewed?
04:58We train on our letters of agreement and SOPs, our standard operating procedures through our training process,
05:04and then it's the application of letter of agreement that we do every day.
05:07So this is, I wouldn't say that this is something new, but absent an aircraft entering Class Bravo airspace and a pilot deviation,
05:14what the controllers would do is they would, it's exactly what you saw them do that night,
05:19which is shared situational awareness of what's going.
05:22We have an aircraft or a pilot that's doing something that they're not supposed to be doing,
05:25and those controllers did exactly what they should have,
05:28which was give two aircraft to go around to ensure that we kept separation or safe separation between those two aircraft
05:34versus letting that continue.
05:36So while we had in my, what's my opinion as a pilot deviation,
05:40I do want to commend the controllers at the time for their actions for ensuring they gave it time to go around to those two aircraft.
05:46I want to join you in commanding those air traffic controllers for their vigilance in that,
05:50and it was timely and appropriate. Thank you.
05:53Thank you, Mr.
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