- 8 months ago
In this episode of the Biscuits and Jam Podcast, Southern Living's Sid Evans talks to Ricky McKinnie, member and manager of the Blind Boys of Alabama—the longest running musical group in American music—about their new book 'Spirit of the Century: Our Own Story' and new album 'Echoes of the South.' Born and raised in Atlanta, Ricky began his musical career in the church, and despite losing his eyesight at 20 he never lost his vision. They discuss all the reasons why the Blind Boys have endured for so long, their hit version of “Amazing Grace,” and what he’s learned over decades as a blind musician.
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00:00Well, Ricky McKinney, welcome to Biscuits & Jam.
00:02Thank you, Sid. Good to be here.
00:04Ricky, where am I reaching you right now?
00:05I can see a couple of Grammys in the background there.
00:10Well, I'm at home here in Atlanta, Georgia.
00:12And I'm over at Chuck's house at the moment, but I'm at home.
00:16Congrats on the new book.
00:19It's called Spirit of the Century.
00:21And it's a great read.
00:24I've spent a little time with it over the last few days.
00:27Tell me a little bit about how y'all came up with the title for that book.
00:32Well, Spirit of the Century was the title of the first album that we did.
00:37And that's the first one that won us a Grammy Award.
00:40And Spirit, obviously you're talking about spirit in more ways than one.
00:45Right, we're talking about spirit meaning what you have on the inside.
00:49And it's portraying, you know, the spirit of the blind boy, what makes the blind boys tick.
00:55Ricky, the blind boys have been around for a really long time now.
01:00Why did it feel like the right time to put this book together?
01:05The blind boys have been around for a long time.
01:07Like you say, we've been around over 80 years, but it's good to still be here.
01:11But what made us do this is that we had done so many things throughout the career of the blind boys.
01:17You know, Specialty Records had an opportunity to sign a contract the same time as Sam Cooke did.
01:24Had a hit record back in 1948 called You Can See Everybody's Mother, But You Can't See Mine.
01:30In seeing and knowing all of the guys, we had won Grammys and double awards and been all over the world at least two or three times.
01:38And it just felt right. It's time now for us to tell the blind boy story.
01:44Well, Ricky, I want to ask about your personal connection to the group.
01:49You've been with them for a really long time.
01:52I'm wondering if you remember your very first performance with the blind boys of Alabama.
01:58Well, my very first performance with the blind boys was a long time ago.
02:01My mother, Sarah McKinney Siebert, she's a singer with a group called the Zane Martin Singers.
02:06And they were on a concert with the blind boys of Alabama.
02:12But all through my career, I had an opportunity to, even though I came out with another group,
02:20when I started here at home, I was with a group called the Soul Searchers.
02:23But we still were running to the blind boys of Alabama.
02:26And anytime I ran into Clarence and all the guys, I had an opportunity to play.
02:31So my career, as far as the blind boys are concerned, goes all the way back to when I was about 18 years old.
02:37Well, that's a long time ago.
02:39I thought I saw somewhere that you performed with them in Australia for the first time.
02:46Did I make that up?
02:47Well, that was the first time when I was a member of the blind boys.
02:53In the beginning, I was just a traveling musician.
02:56I wasn't a member of the blind boys.
02:58I was a member of the Soul Searchers out of Atlanta when I first saw them and played for them.
03:03And I was a member of the Gospel Kenos out of Tyler, Texas when I was on the road traveling.
03:08But, you know, we used to have what they call packages.
03:11And they were always sometimes in the package.
03:13So I had an opportunity to play with just about every quartet back in the day.
03:19I was young, but I had an opportunity to step in and be a musician.
03:23But you're correct. In 1989, that's when I became a member of the blind boys.
03:30Two years before that, Clarence had asked me to go with them to Australia.
03:34That's sort of where it all started.
03:36And Clarence was the leader of the group when you joined. Is that right?
03:40That's right. Clarence Brownton was the leader of the Blind Boys of Alabama.
03:43And he was a great guy. He had big dreams.
03:47And he saw most of his dreams come true.
03:49Ricky, I want to talk a lot more about the band, the group in a minute and all the things that y'all have been up to.
03:58But first, I'd love to hear a little bit about your hometown.
04:01You mentioned that you're in Atlanta now.
04:03And I think this is where you were born and raised.
04:07Tell me a little bit about the house and the neighborhood where you grew up.
04:11Oh, yeah. Atlanta is my home. I've never lived anywhere else.
04:16But it's a good community. I went to high school here.
04:20I played in the band there, Mercury High School.
04:24I went to college for a couple of years.
04:27And at that time, I had lost a portion of my sight.
04:31So I went on the road as a regular musician.
04:36My house was kind of cool. I got two brothers, Ronald McKinney and Chuck Shivers.
04:41And I have a sister. Her name is Janice McKinney.
04:45And my mother has always been sort of a foster mother.
04:49So we got another sister named Fatima Wesley.
04:52But our house has always been a musical house to stay in.
04:55We play rock and roll. We play rhythm and blues.
04:58And we have played gospel all in that same house.
05:02So it's been a real rounded family structure.
05:06Well, Ricky, the Blind Boys is a gospel group, obviously.
05:11And there's always been a spiritual mission in everything that you do as a band.
05:20In terms of your own path, I'm especially curious where you went to church and how that shaped you.
05:28I was a member of the Israel Baptist Church here in Cedarwood Island.
05:34The pastor was Reverend William Smith back then. He's passed away since then.
05:38But I taught Sunday school. And my mother sang in a choir. I sang in a choir.
05:44So all that music and this teaching of the word is what helped to make me who I am today.
05:49It's saved my faith.
05:51So tell me a little bit about the music that you would have heard on a typical Sunday in church.
05:56I mean, was it a very musical affair every Sunday?
06:01And was it a big choir?
06:03Or what kind of musical experience would you have had?
06:08Right. If you had gone to the Israel Baptist Church on one Sunday morning,
06:13they had what they would call devotion.
06:18And in devotion, the deacon boy would be in charge and they would call everybody,
06:23call the services too, together. And they started off with a hymn.
06:30It might be, Father, I stretch my hand to thee.
06:33But then one of the deacons would go down. They'd have a chair, put a chair in the middle of the floor.
06:41And a deacon would go down on his knees and he'd say a prayer.
06:44And after he finished saying the prayer, then it came another song.
06:49And the choir would sing a song. And then they would talk about the sick and shut in.
06:55And they're going from there to what's going on with the church that week.
07:00And then another song by the choir. And the next thing you hear would be the preacher giving the word.
07:06Yeah. I'm guessing you were probably singing a good bit in church yourself.
07:11And I'm wondering if there was someone who recognized your voice,
07:17recognized your talent, and became sort of a mentor to you.
07:24Not really. I had an opportunity to meet a lot of different people in the past,
07:29but it wasn't Clarence Fountain. I met Clarence about four years ago.
07:36What I liked about Clarence Fountain was the fact that he didn't let his
07:40disability become a handicap. And we kind of came together when it comes to that.
07:48He felt like there was nothing that he couldn't do, nothing too hard for God.
07:53I knew that there was nothing I couldn't do if I kept the faith and believed.
07:59And I found Clarence Fountain to be like me. He was a dreamer.
08:04But he did the work when he traveled. And he kept the faith.
08:09Because a lot of times we weren't making any money, but we never had any hard times.
08:13You know, we always ate. We always slept. And by some means, we always had a way of transportation.
08:19So that's what happened to me.
08:23I had an opportunity to talk to a gentleman who would be recognized as the greatest gospel singer in the world.
08:29His name was Reverend Julius Cheeks. And I was talking to him one day and he told me,
08:34He heard me singing, you know, because I had a tune to sing about him.
08:38But I came on as a drummer, but a lot of people knew that I could sing.
08:43But he told me one day, he said,
08:52So people like Clarence Fountain and Reverend Julius Cheeks and Joe Ligon of the Mighty Cloud of Joy
09:00and Robert Blair, he would always be, when you first came on the road, right,
09:06they said that they wouldn't call it, there was a saying they had,
09:10it would call you a scum until you learned the roots.
09:14Okay. So one day I was talking to him.
09:18He said, what you want, scum? And we were talking then.
09:21Then one day we were sitting out eating. He said, well, Head, I guess you made it.
09:29And that's one of the happiest days in my life,
09:33to be recognized as a full-fledged gospel drummer that could make its way.
09:38And not a skull anymore. Not a skull anymore.
09:44Ricky, this is a Southern Living podcast,
09:46and we always talk a little bit about food on here.
09:51And I'm curious who was the cook in your family
09:55and what was on the table on most nights?
09:59We had two cooks. I had my aunt, her name was Laura James.
10:03She stayed with us and my mother. And my aunt loved to cook.
10:08And my mother, so when she was cooking, my mom would just sit back
10:10and let her have the kitchen. But for breakfast,
10:14we might have grits or rice, egg scrambled with cheese, bacon or sausage.
10:21And then sometimes you might have fish with the grits.
10:25And then for lunch, you were pretty much on your own
10:29because you would be going one place or another.
10:31But then at dinnertime, you may have collard greens,
10:34macaroni and cheese, cornbread, pork chops or that kind of thing.
10:39You have something to drink, iced tea or something like that.
10:42You were traveling all over the South
10:46and really all over the country and the world eventually.
10:50But you know, when you were pretty young,
10:53you were doing a lot of traveling.
10:56I'm guessing you got to eat in lots of different places.
11:00Did you have a favorite place?
11:02Did y'all have a favorite town that you would go to when it came to food?
11:06On the Benghazi Highway going up 95, we would always stop in Florence
11:11and they had a place there called Thunderbird.
11:14In Augusta, they had a place called Big Red.
11:17And then if you were up in New York,
11:20you would eat at Sylvia's.
11:23And in Atlanta, Auburn Avenue was flourishing back in that day.
11:28So you'd stop at B.B. Beeman's on the avenue.
11:32Sometimes you went to the Royal Peacock.
11:34They had good sandwiches there.
11:36And the Savoy Hotel, the food was good there.
11:39Couldn't beat it all though, but it was good.
11:42So you had your favorite spots that you would detour to all over the place, it sounds like.
11:49As we traveled down the highway, we made a lot of friends.
11:52We went to people's houses a lot to eat.
11:54They would ask us to come over and we would stop and eat in different places.
11:57But this is some of the restaurants that we would go sometimes.
12:02And we were just glad to be able to, you know, fellowship with people.
12:05Well, Ricky, I want to ask about your music career
12:10and how it kind of changed when you started to lose your sight.
12:18You were a musician and a successful musician early on and in your teens.
12:25And you didn't really lose your sight until later.
12:29And I'm wondering how that kind of changed your path as a musician.
12:36Well, I started as a professional musician at 18.
12:39That's when I first recorded my first major label.
12:43The album was called Great Change by the Soul Searchers.
12:47And then at the time that I lost my sight, I was with the Gospel Kenos out of Tallahassee, Texas.
12:54And the ironic thing about it, I lost my sight in 1975.
13:01And we had a big hit record to come out in 1975.
13:05It was called the Gospel Kenos, Reach Out, but the hit song was Jesus You've Been Good to Me.
13:10And when I lost my sight, well, I lost my sight, but I didn't lose my vision.
13:17So I kept on keeping on.
13:19You know, there's a line in the book that says the blind boys don't see their audience.
13:26They have to feel them.
13:27I'm wondering how losing your sight changed your relationship to an audience when you were on stage.
13:35Well, you know, when I started out, I was playing drums.
13:39And a lot of times when you, music have changed so much today.
13:45Back then, you came to hear the singers and listen to the music.
13:50But now they think you need to hear the music and listen for the singers.
13:55That would never work back in the day.
13:57When it came to me losing my sight, and Clarence was the kind of guy that wanted his mic set a special way.
14:05He wanted it to be not much on the stage.
14:09The monitor in front of him could be practically off.
14:13But as long as he could hear himself, hear that microphone in the audience, and he could hear the people in the audience,
14:19we could really do what he had to do.
14:22So, and that's why I am today.
14:24I tell the boys, I say, look, I don't necessarily need a monitor in front of me.
14:29I want to be able to hear the audience.
14:31Because if I say something that makes them move, I need to know it.
14:36Because I don't say it to myself, I say it to the people.
14:39You know, as someone who's been to a Blind Boys concert and a couple times,
14:46you know, there is something really remarkable about the connection that y'all have with the audience.
14:53It feels very, very personal and kind of intense.
14:57And it seems like y'all know how to fuel that.
15:00As blind singers, we have to be able to communicate with one another.
15:05I like to have the guys that are on each side of me sitting close to me,
15:09close enough that I can reach over and tap them on the leg or something.
15:14But nevertheless, when you can feel, if I say something,
15:19and the audience can relate to what I just said,
15:23what's from the heart reaches the heart.
15:26And that's what we try to do.
15:27Ricky, was Clarence someone who lost his sight early on as a boy or did it happen much later?
15:36Clarence lost his sight when he was three years old.
15:40His mother had taken him too.
15:42They didn't have a lot of doctors back then, but they were putting the wrong medicine,
15:47gave him the wrong medicine.
15:49And that caused him to lose his sight when he was three years old.
15:53Ricky, I want to ask about the group's history for a minute.
15:57And there's a lot in the book about the connection between the Blind Boys of Alabama
16:04and the Blind Boys of Mississippi.
16:06It's a really interesting story of two groups that were kind of competitors in some ways.
16:14And there would be a competition between the two at certain performances.
16:21But it seems like they also kind of fueled each other's growth.
16:26And I'm just wondering if you can share anything about that relationship between those two groups.
16:33What happened was, in the beginning, the Blind Boys were called the Happy Land Jubilee Singers.
16:39And at the same time, the Blind Boys of Mississippi were called the Jackson Homeineers.
16:47So it was a promoter in Newark, New Jersey. He decided he wanted to have a concert.
16:53He said, but I'll tell you what I'm going to do.
16:55I'm going to say we're going to have a concert, the Blind Boys of Alabama versus the Blind Boys of Mississippi.
17:03And that's where it all got started. But Clarence Fountain and Archer Brownlee, they were friends.
17:09And they would be singing one on one side of the building and one on the other side of the building.
17:14And they kind of felt their way until they got to this point where they grabbed hands.
17:18And it was some kind of day. And that's the way it was.
17:23It was a rival. And the Blind Boys of Alabama could say Clarence was a showman.
17:31Clarence was a showman and Archer Brownlee was a singer.
17:35And a lot that they do today is because of Clarence Fountain and Archer Brownlee.
17:41Archer Brownlee started what we called squalling. Squalling is sort of what Jimmy does.
17:47And Archer Brownlee started that.
17:51And what happened was, I knew a lot of the Blind Boys of Mississippi.
17:57When I first lost my sight, Lord would have told me that,
18:00man, you need to come on over here with the Blind Boys of Mississippi.
18:03Because I said I was going home. But I told them I had work to do.
18:07I couldn't, you know, it wasn't just because I lost my sight.
18:11I had other things I wanted to do, I needed to do.
18:14The Blind Boys of Mississippi, they sang music.
18:20They were one of the first groups to go to Europe in 1960.
18:25But the Blind Boys of Alabama came along later.
18:29But like I said, Clarence was a showman.
18:32And he could dance and he put his hand on his hip.
18:39People went crazy. He would put his hand on his hip and turn to the side.
18:42And the audience just thought that was the greatest thing ever.
18:45To see a guy without sight doing all that.
18:48But Archie Brownlee could stand still and work that audience.
18:52I mean, both of them. But Clarence, I'll tell you a short story.
18:56My mama said that Sam Cooke was here in Atlanta at the Center Auditorium.
19:00And Sam Cooke had tore the house down.
19:03Everybody was just shouting.
19:06They called the Blind Boys of Alabama.
19:09All the Blind Boys came out except for Clarence.
19:12And the people were hollering, we're Clarence, we're Clarence, we're Clarence.
19:17They had a little bit of amplifier.
19:19Clarence came out, jumped over the amplifier, and people were crazy.
19:26So he knew how to put on a show.
19:29He knew how to get people stirred up.
19:32He could get you going.
19:35I tell people, I'm the narrator for the Blind Boys.
19:39I'm the group leader for the Blind Boys.
19:41But do I call myself the lead singer for the Blind Boys?
19:45No, I can't sing lead.
19:47And we got guys that can sing lead.
19:49But it's a difference in being a lead singer.
19:53You've probably heard of Bishop Billy Byworth.
19:56He was a lead singer.
19:58Clarence Fountain was a lead singer.
20:00Archie Brown Lee was a lead singer.
20:02And there's a name for a few.
20:05Because it's a difference.
20:07And they had what it takes to make it happen.
20:09My mama, she was a lead singer, Sarah McKinney.
20:12Yeah, I can sing a song.
20:14I can make you feel good.
20:16And I feel good.
20:18But being a lead singer, no.
20:20I call myself an excellent musician when I was playing drums.
20:23And now I'm thankful and grateful that I'm able to sing with the Blind Boys.
20:29I've been singing with them a long time.
20:31Before I became a member, I used to sing with the Blind Boys.
20:34You're also a leader of the group as a manager.
20:39And you've been managing these guys since, I think, the late 90s.
20:45So almost 25 or 30 years.
20:47That seems like a really hard job to corral this group and to keep them going for as long as you have.
20:57What's the secret to making that work?
21:01Firstly, it's when I began to be the manager of the Blind Boys.
21:08The manager before me had passed away.
21:10So I stepped in and I managed the group.
21:12And I saw what we needed to turn it more into a business than what it was.
21:19But I had sense enough to know.
21:21I managed the group from 1997 until 2000.
21:25And Chris Goldsmith, who was our agent back then, he told me,
21:29Richard, you're doing a wonderful job.
21:31He said, but I know a young guy.
21:33He's good.
21:35He'll work hard for you.
21:38And so he took me over to Charles Dweeby's house.
21:42I met Charles Dweeby.
21:44I liked him.
21:46I liked his spirit.
21:48He became the manager of the Blind Boys in 2000.
21:50But we still kept the Blind Boys office open.
21:52We have a general management office.
21:56That's with Charles Dweeby from Blind Ambition.
21:58And now we have a guy named Jeff Deer from California.
22:02He's our manager, 72 Management.
22:04But I'm still managing the Blind Boys office.
22:06And it's a job.
22:08Yeah, it's a job.
22:10Because, see, back when I came up,
22:12it was nothing called singers and a band.
22:18But now we have singers and we have a band.
22:22And the Blind Boys are a singing group.
22:26And sometimes you have to remind the band that you're the band.
22:33They come to hear the singers.
22:35They want to hear the singers and they want to listen to the music.
22:37Yeah.
22:39So it's kind of interesting sometimes.
22:41Yeah.
22:43Well, it sounds like a challenging job.
22:45I'm sure it comes with its tricky situations to manage,
22:51including things like a worldwide tour and performances at major award shows
22:57and all kinds of stuff.
23:02Yeah, yeah.
23:04See, what happened, my brother, he had a band.
23:06And he was doing some things.
23:08My brother, Chuck.
23:10And I think it might have been 2007.
23:14We hired him to be the tour manager for the Blind Boys.
23:20So he got a job.
23:22He tried to keep everything going.
23:24So he's the tour manager.
23:26I'm the general manager.
23:28I mean, I'm the group leader.
23:30Zero is the general manager.
23:32Whatever you're doing, it's working.
23:34Well, Ricky, I want to ask you about the album that y'all came out with
23:38last year.
23:40It's called Echoes of the South.
23:42And it was your first album in, I think, about six years.
23:46And it won a Grammy for Best Roots Gospel Album.
23:52It's a terrific album.
23:54And I want to ask you about the first song on that album,
23:59which is called Send It On Down.
24:01And it feels to me like a song that's really meant to get people up out
24:05of their seats.
24:07Tell me about the origin of that song.
24:09Well, that song has been around for a long time.
24:11I don't know who started it.
24:13But we sing Send It On Down.
24:15That's the Blind Boys stand up and shout song.
24:19And every night, we get and sing Send It On Down.
24:25We try to make it come on down.
24:28We get the people up dancing.
24:30And then whoever's leading the song, they go down to the audience and
24:34enjoy it.
24:36And the guitar player, he's the music director.
24:38And the music will be pumping and the boys will be singing.
24:40And before you know it, you're up out of your seat because they're going
24:44to tell you to come on down.
24:46So when they come on down, it's just like something you've never seen.
24:50It probably works.
24:52It probably does get people up out of their seats, right?
24:54Yeah, haven't missed yet.
24:56Yeah, haven't missed yet.
24:58When the singer go down to the audience and tell them to move around
25:02and people can shake his hand and get up out of the seat.
25:04Well, you know, it's just like fire.
25:08It spreads.
25:10And when you get that fire burning, before you know it, you got a mess
25:14going on.
25:16Yeah.
25:18That's what you want.
25:20Well, there's another song on the album that is called Heaven Help Us
25:26All.
25:28And this is a song that was recorded by Stevie Wonder a long time ago,
25:32maybe in the early 70s, 1970 or so.
25:36But it seems more relevant than ever.
25:40You know, with everything going on in the world, this idea of, you know,
25:44just heaven help us all makes a lot of sense.
25:48And it just, it seems like it could have been written for today.
25:53How did y'all land on this song for the album?
25:57We used to produce our own records.
25:59We wrote all our own songs and the five of us produced all our own records.
26:03We had a record company, but we did all of the producing.
26:07But we had different producers to come in with different songs.
26:11But that song just, it fit, I can say it fit the way things are today.
26:15There's so much going on all over the world, but there's a lot going on
26:20right here in America.
26:24So I don't know if we'll get it right, but either way it goes, Heaven Help Us All.
26:28I'm guessing you probably know Stevie Wonder.
26:32Have y'all met over the years?
26:36I don't know him, but I have met him.
26:40We were awarded a Lifetime Achievement Award from a company called Visions.
26:44And they had a goal to help people that had retina detachment.
26:48They brought the blind boy in and they gave us a Lifetime Achievement Award.
26:52And Stevie Wonder was the one that presented it to us.
26:56And then we sung Higher Ground together.
27:00Ricky, as a blind musician,
27:04I'm wondering if there are advantages
27:08to not having your sight.
27:12Obviously there are disadvantages.
27:17You mentioned being able to see the other members of the band,
27:21being able to see the audience, being able to even see your instrument.
27:25But what are some of the advantages that you have
27:29in terms of maybe being able to hear things
27:33more deeply or being able to connect with the audience in a different way?
27:37Well, when I was playing drums,
27:41it was a different situation than what I'm doing now.
27:46When you listen to the voices and the music,
27:50a lot of people say that when you lose your sight or you lose something,
27:54that your sight
27:58enhances the hearing.
28:02Sometimes it depends on the person. It depends on what you're listening to.
28:06It's up to the individual. If you're losing your sight or something goes wrong in your life,
28:10you just have to realize that
28:14disability is not a handicap and you have to do what you have to do.
28:18When I first lost my sight, I was so angry.
28:22People tried to look down on my musicianship,
28:26but I always knew who I was.
28:30It didn't matter who you thought I was.
28:34It would matter who I was. I thank God for the blind boys
28:38because I don't know of any groups, no matter how well a blind guy sings
28:43or plays, I'm talking about professional groups,
28:47that has a blind musician in it.
28:51It's not because of the fact that you can't play.
28:55It's because of the fact that you're not as short.
28:59So the blind boys have opened doors for a lot of blind musicians.
29:03Ray Charles, he had a disability.
29:07Siva Wanda, Jose Fulgeno.
29:12We are band leaders.
29:16In the blind boys group, we are band leaders, no matter what the band may think.
29:20Sometimes you get a musician.
29:24But that's life. That's the way people are.
29:28Just like you do what you do. If you went into an office,
29:32and you lost your sight, people have a tendency to try to
29:36underestimate you because of your disability.
29:40Nobody's perfect.
29:44Me, I'm unbossed.
29:48I'm me all the way through.
29:52I'm temperamental, but I've learned that when it comes to
29:56doing something, having a good thing, you just don't know.
30:00Who would think that Ricky McKinney,
30:04who started out as the drummer for the blind boys,
30:09would be the narrator of the blind boys, or the group leader for the blind boys.
30:13I've had my own group, Ricky McKinney Singers,
30:17and it was a great group. My record was, Ricky McKinney Singers' record was
30:21reissued this year. It's called The Ricky McKinney Singers,
30:25I Never Had Love Before. They reissued it this year.
30:29You just gotta know who you are, because no matter what your situation is,
30:33if you get to the point that you're a little different than everybody else,
30:37you gotta stand your ground, especially when you know you're right. It's not hard,
30:41but Clarence was the kind of guy that he meant what he said,
30:45and he said what he meant, and they knew that,
30:49so we didn't have any problem. He tried to push me around sometimes, but at the end of the day,
30:53it's gonna go the way I said it.
30:57Ricky, I want to ask about one of your
31:01biggest songs, and that was a version
31:05that y'all did of Amazing Grace.
31:09It was sung to the melody of
31:13House of the Rising Sun, which of course is the famous song about
31:17a brothel. Why was that such a powerful idea,
31:21to take Amazing Grace, which is one of the greatest gospel
31:25songs of all time, and then to
31:29sing it to that melody of
31:33House of the Rising Sun? We had a producer by the name of John Salute,
31:37and he had a vision, great
31:41engineer. He did what he did, he could do what he did, but he came
31:45to the round board of that House of the Rising Sun
31:49melody and said, man, y'all need to sing
31:53this, and you need to sing it with Amazing Grace.
31:57And I said, oh no, we can't do that.
32:01And John said, no, no, we can't do that, Jimmy. He said, just try it, man,
32:05just try it. So he said, I always had
32:09a connection with Clarence. I said, Clarence, look, man,
32:13just try it. I said, what? I'm gonna try it,
32:17but it ain't gonna be nothing. I said, okay, let's try it anyway.
32:21Oh, he didn't think it was a good idea. No, no, no, no.
32:25None of them thought it was gonna work, but if Clarence had said
32:29no for real and put the tour down, we wouldn't have never sung that
32:33song, but we talked for a minute. I said, look,
32:37these people trying to record this record, they got the money out,
32:41we need to sing this song. He said, it ain't gonna be nothing.
32:45I said, okay, but let's do it anyway. And it came
32:49to be one of our biggest songs, and then when he spoke to Clarence about it,
32:53he said, oh yeah, it was great. I knew it was gonna be alright.
32:57He came around
33:01once he saw it take off. Yes, he did.
33:05Well, Ricky, the Blind Boys of Alabama
33:09have been around for a long time. It's one of the longest
33:13running groups in the history of
33:17modern music. What are your hopes for the future
33:21of the Blind Boys? I just hope that after Ricky
33:25McKinney is gone, that somebody will come in
33:29with the same kind of temperament that I have. I love the Lord.
33:33He's shown favor in my life many, many, many times.
33:37And I don't like to talk about it because when I talk about it, they say I'm bragging, but
33:41I'm not bragging. If you're telling the truth, it's just the truth. After I'm gone,
33:45we have some people in there today still in class.
33:49He's a religious
33:53guy, and that's good because we all believe in God.
33:57And we're a praying group, and I love that.
34:01We got a guy out of Ohio. His name is J.W. Smith.
34:05He read a lot to the group also. He taught
34:09college for years, and after he retired, he came to the group.
34:13He had talked to me about five years before he retired.
34:17He said, when I retire, man, I want to be with the Blind Boys. I said, okay, let's see what happens.
34:21And that's what happened. I just like to
34:25keep it going, let people know
34:29what keeps us on the road is the fact that
34:33God has allowed us to be a symbol
34:37that no matter what your situation is,
34:41you can make it happen. And whoever comes after
34:45me, I hope they don't allow sighted people to come in
34:49and take it on, because it's the only thing we got, the Blind Boys of Alabama.
34:53I appreciate people. I appreciate what they do.
34:57But at the end of the day, I'm going to look out for the Blind Boys of Alabama.
35:01And I can be wrong, you know.
35:05I'm not going to be wrong sometimes. But I hope we will still
35:09find some young men that are strong enough
35:13to believe in the Blind Boys of Alabama, believe in what we do.
35:17And somebody that's willing to do what we do, somebody that can look back
35:21on their life like I can and say something good about me.
35:25Like I believe, like Clarence. Clarence, he was a symbol of that.
35:29He was a strong leader, a very strong leader. It takes a lot to be
35:33a strong leader, because no matter what goes on, what goes
35:37wrong, they're going to point at you. And so, the wait
35:41is not too hard. It's not too hard, because I believe in what I'm doing.
35:45But as long as there is a
35:49group, not a band, as long as there's a group
35:53by the name of Blind Boys of Alabama that can sing a song,
35:57we love the band. We love the band. The band
36:01enhances the group. When I say that, I mean that. But the Blind Boys
36:05are a singing group. And as long as there's
36:09some people in the world that love the Lord, that have
36:13the insight to keep things going. See, I lost my sight, but I never lost
36:17my vision. And I was directed in the right way a long time
36:21ago. And knowing that, I'm
36:25good. I just hope every day it turns out somebody can see the good
36:29in me. Well, Ricky, you're born and raised in the South. You grew up
36:33in Atlanta. You still live in Atlanta. And the Blind
36:37Boys are such a part of the fabric
36:41of the South when it comes to music, and were so
36:45influential for so many years, and are still influential. I just have one more
36:49question for you. What does it mean to you to be Southern? What does it mean to me
36:53to be Southern? I was born and raised in the South. But just
36:57because I was born and raised in the South, I learned that people need
37:01people, and working together works. It doesn't matter that
37:05you are a Democrat or if you're a Republican.
37:09If you're a Baptist, Methodist,
37:13because none but the righteous is going to see God.
37:17And as long, you can't put
37:21a name on it. I mean, if you're a Christian, that's good, but
37:25as long as I was born,
37:29what it means to me to be called a Southerner, I was born in Atlanta.
37:33I never been nowhere else that I wanted to live. I've been a couple
37:37of bases still, a little while, but I've never been nowhere else.
37:41Things are changing. The South changes like anything else.
37:45People change. People come from all walks of life. But
37:49I guess they call me a Southerner because I was born in the South.
37:53Ricky McKinney, congrats on everything, the album,
37:57and the new book, and I hope the
38:01blind boys of Alabama keep at it for a really long time. So thanks so much
38:05for being on Biscuits and Jam.
38:07Well, thank you for having me. I just want to say this, that the blind boys of Alabama
38:11have been called a lot of things. They've been called institutions.
38:15They've been called a lot of different things. The main thing is that I'm proud.
38:19I'm proud of what the blind boys did. I'm proud of what Clarence, a long
38:23time ago, instilled into the group. And I'm proud of all the people that it takes
38:27to make it what it is today. People like you still make a lot
38:31out of the blind boys. You go a lot of places. And I
38:35tell them, I say, what you do reflects on the blind boys.
38:39And if you can respect that
38:43that you do, you respect the blind boys of Alabama
38:47and what it stands for. See, the Bible says,
38:51if I be lifted up, I'll draw all men. So
38:55I'm a firm believer that we just don't sing a gospel song.
38:59God has allowed us to sing a gospel song
39:03and we lift them up. And we've been all over the world. When people come to hear the blind
39:07boys, don't even speak English, come back and have to have
39:11an interpreter. But they feel something. They might not understand what it is.
39:15But as long as the blind boys are doing the
39:19right thing, and the right thing is singing good gospel music,
39:23treating people right, and trying to be who they are,
39:27the blind boys of Alabama won't be lasting a long time.
39:31But I'm going to say this before I go. Don't miss it when the boys are back in town.
39:35Well, you guys know
39:39how to lift people up, so y'all keep at it for as long as you can.
39:43Oh, yeah. See, I tell you what. They need to get that book
39:47about the blind boys, that Spirit of the City. I
39:51read the book myself. It comes in audio as well as print. It's
39:55a real book, ladies and gentlemen. It's not just a bunch of stories that people
39:59talk about. Man, you're going to find out some stuff about the blind boys that you never
40:03thought about. And you got a little bit
40:07about me in there. It made me cry. A little bit about Ricky McChinney.
40:11We're going to tell people all about it. Hey, let's do that.
40:15And I tell you what. Thank you for having me here with you today.
40:19Hey, I hope to see you soon. Look out for me. Thank you, Ricky.
40:25music
40:29music
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