Bhubaneshwar (Odisha), May 14, 2025 (ANI): On Turkey's military support to Pakistan, former Indian Ambassador to Turkey Sanjay Panda said, "It's part of the package. When you sell a product, there is a service which is involved...They were helping out. Even before this conflict broke out, they were present and trying to assist them as part of the package. The fact remains how Turkey looks at India. It's a major strategic miscalculation for Turkey, knowing very well how and where these products are going to be used. Turkey has to see what is in its national interest. Is it doing business with India or with Pakistan? I would rather call it a strategic miscalculation..."
00:00Let us get it very clear. It's not that it's gifting drones to Pakistan. I mean, Pakistan is a major buyer of Turkish drones. Pakistan's support from Turkey or whatever it has got from Turkey is quite miniscule as compared to what it gets from China.
00:18For example, last year it was about five to six million dollars only worth of, you know, equipment, military equipment it procured from Turkey.
00:30The fact remains that Turkey, how it looks at India, I mean, it's a major strategic miscalculation for Turkey, knowing very well how and where these products are going to be used.
00:42I mean, Turkey has to see what is in its national interest. I mean, is it doing business with India or with Pakistan?
00:54Turkey has been Pakistan's always a friend. It has always been by Pakistan's side.
01:00And at this point in time, Turkey, you know, is with Pakistan, has been with Pakistan, but it is part of a larger agenda of President Erdogan.
01:12We know that Turkey sent the condolence message of condolence to India. So which any other country, many countries have sent and Turkey is one of them.
01:24So these messages are diplomatic niceties, but then it has to be, you know, followed by action.
01:31There are about 300 to 400 drones, which were actually sent from Pakistani soil into India.
01:39And it continued all the way from Ladakh right up to Gujarat, both LOC and international border.
01:46Well, so far as Turkey is concerned, Turkey is one of the leading manufacturers of drone, you know, they have the drone technology and manufacturing capacity.
01:57And let us get it very clear. It's not that it's gifting drones to Pakistan.
02:03I mean, Pakistan is a major buyer of Turkish drones. In fact, Turkey markets it quite extensively.
02:11Apart from drones, there are also other, you know, military equipment, which Turkey has been providing to Pakistan on commercial basis.
02:21I mean, there were two, there are four milgame class covets, which Pakistan has bought from Turkey.
02:31If I remember correctly, there's two which were made in Istanbul, where one was PNS Khyber and PNS Mabar.
02:44And then there are two others which are being built in Karachi shipyard.
02:49But having said that, Pakistan's support from Turkey or whatever it has got from Turkey is quite miniscule as compared to what it gets from China.
03:00For example, last year it was about five to six million dollars only worth of, you know, equipment, military equipment it procured from Turkey.
03:12So that isn't much as compared to China.
03:17Right. Sir, according to Indian intelligence inputs and sources, Turkish advisors were actively involved in helping Pakistani military officials plan and coordinate drone attacks against Indian targets.
03:30What's your comment on that?
03:31Yeah, this is, it's part of the package.
03:34I mean, when you sell a product, I mean, there is a service which is involved.
03:38So they, they were helping out.
03:43I mean, there's, even before this conflict broke out, even before that they were present and trying to, you know, assist them.
03:52This part of their contract, part of the package.
03:54You see, we should not read more into all this.
03:58The fact remains that Turkey, how it looks at India.
04:02I mean, it's a major strategic miscalculation for Turkey, knowing very well how and where these products are going to be used.
04:10I mean, Turkey has to see where it's, what is in its national interest.
04:15I mean, is it doing business with India or with Pakistan?
04:21I mean, so that is why I would rather call it a strategic miscalculation.
04:25But so far as drones and other things, military equipment are concerned, Turkey is into the business of marketing these products, irrespective of the buyer.
04:35And Pakistan, of course, is a major buyer.
04:37Right, Ambassador, Turkish President Erdogan phoned Pakistan for its patience and he said on Wednesday that his support to brotherly Islamabad would continue to stand by side, whether it's good times or bad times.
04:53So how do you, how does Turkey view the terror attack that took place in Pahal Ram?
04:58You see, Turkey has been Pakistan's all-weather friend.
05:02It has always been by Pakistan's side.
05:06And at this point in time, Turkey, you know, is with Pakistan, has been with Pakistan, but it is part of a larger agenda of President Erdogan.
05:18Erdogan has this, you know, he is the only one who calls the shots in Turkey.
05:26And at this point, Erdogan's vision of reviving the days of the caliphate glory and become the leader of the Islamic world.
05:37So that is something which, of course, not many people in Turkey are with Erdogan on this, but that's his dream.
05:45So it is in this context, I mean, Pakistan, as in anything, anything which has got to do with Islam, I mean, Turkey is there.
05:56So, for example, and that is why it was always on the Kashmir issue, it has sided with Pakistan.
06:01Now, his reference to the terrorists who were killed in the Indian strikes and calling them as civilians and martyrs are a little off the mark, I would say.
06:15So there are Turkey in its processes crossing several red lines.
06:20So that India is noting as well.
06:22So I don't think there's August very well.
06:24But so far as his friendship with Pakistan is concerned, it doesn't mean that, you know, any two countries coming close together, it means that they are adverse to a third country.
06:37You know, when we talk about bilateral relationship between two sovereign entities, the relationship has to be conducted bilaterally, one on one.
06:46We should not look at the other through the prism of a third country.
06:49In this case, Turkey looks at India through the prism of Pakistan, which is the which is something which we cannot tolerate at this point.
07:01So whereas the Pelagam attack is concerned, we know that Turkey sent the condolence message of condolence to India.
07:09So which any other country, many countries have sent and Turkey is one of them.
07:14So these messages are diplomatic niceties, but then it has to be, you know, followed by action.
07:23Right. Ambassador, talking about India-Turkey relationship ahead amid Ankara's support to Islamabad militarily, how do you see the relationship moving forward?
07:34See, one thing is very clear.
07:36It cannot be business as usual now.
07:38But Turkey is very important from our perspective.
07:44Why it is its location, geostrategic importance of Turkey, its location, you know, at the crossroads of Asia and Europe and as a stepping stone into Europe.
07:54So look at Indian companies and many others who want to build Turkey or look at Turkey as an important base for third country exports.
08:04So and particularly to Europe.
08:06Now, we have a major strategic interest in Turkey.
08:10Now, so far as Turkey is concerned, I mean, they are also plagued by terrorism, cross-border terrorism.
08:16So we have been trying to tell and convince Turkey that, look, we have nothing against your relationship with Pakistan.
08:23So long as that relationship doesn't translate against India.
08:28I mean, your proximity to Pakistan should not be to target India.
08:33Then Turkey in the process, I repeat, as it's a major strategic miscalculation and they are losing the big picture.
08:41Now, so far as the future is concerned, you know, there are a lot at stake.
08:45Obviously, things will slow down.
08:48But so far as India is concerned, I feel that we have to, we cannot have a knee-jerk reaction.
08:54We are still, we know what Turkey is worth and we have to have a calibrated approach.
09:01We have to make economic, you know, staggered economic strikes.
09:06But ensuring that the people-to-people contact and other things remain intact.
09:11Right, Ambassador, just last question.
09:15Following revelations about the origin of drones used against India, traders and travel portals have called for a ban on products made in Turkey and a halt to any tourists travel to Turkey.
09:27What is your response on that and how do you think it is going to have an impact on Turkey economically?
09:32You know, Ayushi, not many people realize Turkey's economy is in such a shape now.
09:42Hardly any business is translating into funds getting transferred into Turkey.
09:48For example, if about 350,000 Indian tourists visit Turkey every year, that's the figure around that figure.
09:57Now, when the bookings are done, not even 25% of that actually physically comes into Turkey.
10:08So it doesn't help Turkey's earnings.
10:12In fact, many Turkish companies would like to accept the payments in dollars or in any hard currency and which is made outside.
10:20So if the travel portals and the people do not want to visit Turkey now, that's a decision.
10:27Of course, there's a major emotional angle that I feel is very important for the people after what exactly what happened in Pelga and the way Turkey has sided with Pakistan.
10:38It is the decision which has to be respected.
10:40But so far as the government is concerned, I think government should be very careful in taking decisions.
10:46And, you know, of course, it is important that, as I repeat again, it cannot be business as usual.
10:54But how we do it, it doesn't hurt India's interest.
10:57For example, there are many Indian companies who are operating in Turkey.
11:01Now, we have a trade which is a bilateral trade that is across 10 billion mark.
11:07Now, we do not want all that affected at the cost of Indian companies.
11:12But there are certain things we can do.
11:14For example, Turkey has major, you know, it's a major big player in the infrastructure sector.
11:22In fact, they have contributed quite a lot here in India.
11:26For example, the Atal Tunnel, they executed part of that project efficiently and associated with many other projects.
11:33Rail Vikas Nigam Limited is already signed an MOU, a major MOU with a Turkish company and project is in the works.
11:43There are many other projects which are done.
11:45And there are Turkish companies who are, for example, in our airports, there's a company called Jalebi, which has been handling logistics at all our major airports.
11:54And they're doing it very efficiently.
11:55But at this point in time, when projects are coming up, we can cite, for example, on grounds of security or because of security concerns, we could debar a few Turkish companies.
12:08Not because we don't want them, not because we want them out.
12:12But it's very important in diplomacy that the messaging has to be correct.
12:17We have to have the messaging look.
12:19Times are different.
12:20We cannot have business as usual.
12:22But at the same time, for example, there is a call that Indigo's, you know, tie up with Turkish Airlines that should no longer be there.
12:33I don't think that's a very correct approach for the simple reason that it is more than Turkish Airlines.
12:39It is in Indigo's interest that this remains.
12:43So if we take a, that's why I say it has to be very well thought out and calibrated approach.
12:48Indian companies should not suffer.
12:50And how it hits Turkey, that we have to think and plan.
12:54So, but at the same time, if people take a view of not visiting Turkey, that has to be respected.
13:00That has to be respected.
13:01But I, I strongly, I'm of the view that people to people relations with Turkey should be there.
13:07Turkish people love Indians, actually.
13:08I mean, having spent the time there, it is actually, it's one man who calls the shots and it is his own vision that are actually Turkey in the path that it's going now.
13:22And its economy is in a pretty bad shape.
13:25But, you know, but tourism, you know, people not visiting, it's not going to affect Turkey because there's nothing more to affect that money in any case doesn't go to Turkey.
