Jim Baird Asks Witness About Ensuring USAID Commodities Are Getting Into The Hands Of Those In Need

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During a House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing last week, Rep. Jim Baird (R-IN) questioned Uzra Zeya, President and CEO of Human Rights First, about the effectiveness of USAID programs.

Transcript

00:00Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank our witnesses for being here today.

00:04You know, agriculture is important to me, and it's important to our country,

00:11and we make a contribution from agriculture to USAID around the world

00:15and had the opportunity to go to Africa a couple of times,

00:21so I'm just setting the stage for my question here in a minute.

00:23Sometimes those commodities end up being in the hands of adversaries used as, it's fungible,

00:32it's used as money instead of really ended up.

00:35So my point is that this statistic from USAID is only 12.7% of that funding actually ends up

00:43in the hands of the people we intended it for, and so that's the question.

00:48And so now when you look at international organizations, the State Department contributes

00:54more than $8 billion annually to international organizations, and if we cannot audit that

01:02or make sure that it's going to the appropriate recipients, then I'm concerned about it.

01:07So my question comes down to going forward, what do you think, with all of your experience,

01:13the actions should be from Congress in order to allow the government to have oversight

01:18mechanisms that are appropriate to assess the relevant information

01:22to ensure compliance from these different NGOs?

01:29So I want to know what we can do to make sure that those commodities

01:34or whatever we're providing through USAID is really getting to the people needed,

01:38because I understand the concern about PRC, but I'm not sure that we're being effective

01:44as we should be with our USAID.

01:50If I might jump in, Congressman, I would say this is why it's so critical to resource that oversight,

01:57and the dismissal of inspectors general at multiple agencies, including USAID, I think that was a setback,

02:05but certainly we have to make absolutely sure that all of that taxpayer-funded assistance

02:12is reaching its intended recipient.

02:13I think the 12% was with respect to local partners who are the first recipient of this U.S. largesse,

02:24but I think you're absolutely right, but we have to, in this challenge-funding environment,

02:31still have the manpower, the people who can ensure the money is well spent.

02:36And I think individual agencies have layers of support for that,

02:42but the 15% cut across the board in the department, it's going to be a difficult choice,

02:48I think, on the domestic side, where those cuts are going to come out.

02:53I would just say that in my experience, most recently with Syria,

02:57the USAID watched closely on diversion and who it was going to, and that's to be applauded.

03:07That is absolutely necessary, and whatever the organization is,

03:11it is important that those functions, under whatever hat,

03:15and the people who know how to do that continue to carry out those functions.

03:20In terms of aid to international organizations,

03:23there's the famous case of UNRWA in Gaza in particular, that's troubling.

03:29That's a special case, and it's something for Congress and I think the State Department to take a closer look at.

03:41Well, sure, I agree.

03:43I think that it's, you know, beholden on all of us to make sure that there's accountability

03:48and that the money's not wasted goes to the recipients.

03:51I think there's also a deeper question, which is,

03:54can we do a better job in measuring actually the impact that we're having?

03:58I mean, we have all of these sometimes grandiose objectives about our foreign assistance,

04:03which no one's going to disagree with,

04:05but is the way we're doing aid actually achieving those goals?

04:12And what is the process of measuring that?

04:14Who's measuring it?

04:15And what, in my experience in government, is that we end up measuring the things we can measure

04:18because that's easier, so you measure how many, you know,

04:21young women in southern Lebanon have been trained in English,

04:25when that is supposed to be a means to an objective of transforming a society

04:29to make sure that there's, you know, 100%, not 50% of the population is employable,

04:34and that they have access to things that make them more moderately inclined

04:37and more economically competitive.

04:40We don't measure that.

04:41We measure how many girls are going through an English program,

04:43which I'm all in favor of.

04:44The point is, we lose perspective because we lose sight of the objective that we have.

04:50You know, and I can remember, I won't name the country because it'll be embarrassing.

04:54In one of my countries, I had an aid director come to me,

04:56and she said, you know, it's 50 years of a U.S. aid program in this country.

05:00We want to have a celebration.

05:02Next year, we're going to celebrate it.

05:03And I said, no, we're not.

05:05I love the aid program.

05:06We're doing good stuff there.

05:08The country needs it.

05:09But we're not going to celebrate the fact that we have a forever aid program somewhere.

05:12And that's because we're not measuring the outcomes or the results in any meaningful way.

05:17So in the authorization process, you can help us do that.

05:20Wonderful.

05:21I thank you.

05:22My time has run out, and so I yield back.

05:25Thank you, Representative Baird.

05:26Representative Alma.

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