Exclusive: Journalist says she was stunned by Pak Minister's 'dirty work' admission

India Today

Journalist Yalda Hakim, who interviewed Pakistan's Defence Minister Khawaja Asif, expressed her thoughts about it with India Today. In the interview on April 24, Khawaja Asif had admitted Pakistan's history of supporting, training and funding terrorist organistations as "dirty work" for the West.

Transcript

00:00A very special guest who's joining me. Pakistan's worst-kept secret of sponsoring terror was exposed

00:06in an interview that Yalda Hakim, lead world news presenter at Sky News, did with Pakistan's

00:13Defence Minister Khwaja Asif. I am joined by Yalda. I appreciate your joining us here. Yalda,

00:19they're from London. Thank you very much. The horrific Baisaran terror attack exposing Pakistan's

00:25role once again in fomenting, sponsoring terror against India, especially in the Kashmir

00:29Valley. It's been one of the world's worst-kept secrets admitted on camera by Pakistan's Defence

00:35Minister in a recent interview to you, Yalda. In that interview, the Defence Minister going

00:42on camera saying, yes, Pakistan did sponsor finance terror over the years. His exact statement

00:48is, we've been doing this dirty work for the United States for about three decades in the

00:53West, including Britain, in response to your question about Pakistan's long history of

00:58backing, supporting, training, funding terror groups. How do you look at, what was your first

01:03response when you heard the Defence Minister of a country of Pakistan make that candid admission

01:08to you?

01:11Well, Rajdeep, thank you so much for having me on your programme. As you say, I mean, it is

01:18something that has been more or less a sort of a well-known and well-documented, and yet

01:27a situation where, over the decades, Pakistan has never really admitted it publicly, in different

01:34points and at different times. You know, whether it was General Parvez Musharraf or Benazir Bhutto,

01:40or different ISI chiefs who have come out at different intervals in Pakistan's history and felt the need

01:46to make an admission and accept that perhaps they do fund and back terror groups and use them as

01:54proxies. Still, I didn't expect that in this heated moment, when there is this escalation between

02:02Pakistan and India over the horrendous and heinous crime that took place, the terrorist attack in

02:09Kashmir, I didn't expect that so blatantly he would come out and admit this. I mean, we, over the

02:16years, have interviewed different Pakistani ministers and leaders, and they've often talked about the fact that

02:22Pakistan, too, has been a victim of terrorism. But they haven't come out and so openly said this in a

02:30television interview at a time when things are so heated. So, just to answer your question, my first reaction

02:37perhaps was slightly jaw-dropping. I mean, if you watch the interview, you see me almost take a breath, a pause.

02:44I sort of want him to elaborate, so I sort of take in what he says and give him a moment of pause to

02:53either recollect his thoughts, because I thought maybe he made a mistake, maybe he didn't fully

03:00comprehend or understand what I was saying. And then he goes on to clarify, to say, no, we are doing that,

03:07we did do for decades of the dirty work of the West. And then he, you know, goes on to sort of say,

03:13but that isn't the case now. Lashkar Tabor doesn't exist as an organization. We don't know who the

03:19resistance front is and what you're talking about. But we used to do this. We don't do this now.

03:26You know, it's interesting what you're saying, because the truth of the matter,

03:29Yala, is that Pakistan has always lived by this deniability. They've always tried to deny

03:36every terror attack, especially those aimed at India. You will recall even after Mumbai 26-11,

03:42there was initially this denial. Then when terrorist Kassab was caught red-handed, the Pakistanis could

03:47not deny it any further. In that sense, it was important for us to hear a functionary at the level

03:53of a defense minister admitting to Pakistan's role in sponsoring terror, and then trying to

03:58suddenly backtrack by saying that's in the past, not in the present. Is there a sense you got from

04:03this response to the interview that that's gone viral, that the world also no longer believes

04:09Pakistan's deniability, that when Pakistan now says that we are not involved in terror,

04:14as it kept saying in the past, the world no longer trusts Pakistan anymore.

04:19Yes, Rajdeep, I think that that was what made the interview go viral. Not only were we hearing

04:29an ambition like this from a minister at that level, at a time where things are so tense between

04:37the two nations and just a few days after the terrorist attack in Kashmir, but also for him to

04:44so blatantly accept Pakistan's history of funding, aiding, giving sanctuaries. I mean, as you know,

04:54for the two decades or so of the Afghan war, not only was Pakistan getting billions of dollars from

05:02the United States, they were constantly accused of playing a double game. In 2018, the then-President

05:09Trump during his first administration, one of the things he did, I remember it was January 1 in 2018,

05:15one of the first things he came out and did was say that we are going to cut all military aid

05:20to Pakistan because our troops are dying on the ground, NATO forces are dying on the ground in

05:26Afghanistan, and Pakistan is taking our money. But at the same time, they are backing, supporting and

05:32giving sanctuary to these terrorist groups that are going back into Afghanistan and launching these

05:37attacks, large-scale attacks on our troops and on innocent civilians and prolonging this conflict

05:43and making it even more bloody and violent. And as you said, the 2008 Mumbai attack, Pakistan had the

05:51same reaction. So in this moment, for him to come out and make this admission, I think is what

05:57actually shocked the world. And then to sort of distance themselves, only a few days after,

06:01I interviewed Bilawal Bhutto, the former foreign minister of Pakistan, and he admitted, he said,

06:09yes, you know, my family have been victims of terrorism, we as a nation, but it is also part of our history.

06:17Terrorism and funding these proxy groups are part of our history. So that, I think, is what left the world

06:24shocked. And as you say, this acceptance and realization that perhaps Pakistan itself will no

06:30longer deny the brutality of funding these terrorist organizations and using it as a policy.

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