00:00Are we seeing the end of Officer Keir Starmer and the rise of Reform UK?
00:04We are joined by former Reform candidate Mark Hose and also former Labour Special Advisor Paul Richards.
00:11OK, let's start with you. Paul Richards, what do you think?
00:14Do you feel we're seeing a little slippery slidey slope that Keir Starmer is now at the top of?
00:21No, no, you'll be astonished to learn that I don't think that.
00:24I do think that the by-election tells us some important lessons around policy.
00:28But we do all know, don't we, that in government, you tend to lose by-elections, regardless of whichever party is in power.
00:35I remember George Galloway doing something very similar before the last election, and then he lost the seat at the general election.
00:42So I don't think you can read a little bit much into these kind of results.
00:47And, you know, if 10 people had voted a different way, then we'd be saying, oh, you know,
00:52Starmer has pulled off in the most amazing coup of winning a by-election and, you know, his position is secured.
00:58So, you know, 10 votes either way.
00:59Oh, Paul, Paul, come on.
01:01Labour lost a majority of 14,000.
01:03Come on, Paul.
01:04When I called this on GB News, you know, six weeks ago, I think this was always going to be a reform victory.
01:10Because if your guy goes around hitting the voters, the voters are going to punch back, aren't they?
01:15And that was always going to be what happens.
01:17And also mentioning George Galloway, I think we can all, none of us can unsee the image of him being a cat.
01:22So I think that may have not worked in his favour when he won that.
01:25That was everywhere.
01:26OK, Marcos, what do you think?
01:29Well, I think it's been a fantastic night for us.
01:31A bit bleary-eyed this morning.
01:33It was a late night, staying up to see us take Runcorn, which was fantastic.
01:38But it's not just Runcorn.
01:40I mean, it's all very well for him to say, you know, he expects us to win Runcorn.
01:43We've got a 28% swing in North Tyneside.
01:48And the whole momentum is with us now.
01:51And people are just turning their backs on Starmer.
01:54You were right, Ben, what you said about how less engaged that audience were on the press conference just before we came on.
02:03And that's the attitude of the British people when it comes to Starmer.
02:06You know, they're not engaged.
02:08They don't really know what he stands for.
02:11And what we've seen over this campaign is a smear tactic by Starmer, making complete lies about the NHS, for example, and our stance on the NHS.
02:21And, frankly, people have ignored him because he lies all the time.
02:25Sorry, where was he lying?
02:26What is your stance on the NHS, briefly?
02:28Well, our stance is that it needs reform and it needs to be free at the point of use.
02:34And that was on our manifesto in the election last year.
02:38It's still our policy and it's just ridiculous for them to try and slander and say, you know, sending out leaflets with bills on saying this is how much a hip operation will cost.
02:48I mean, it's just blatant lying.
02:50And the thing is, what's happening now, as you see, is people are seeing through these lies and they're just ignoring him.
02:57And that's what happened last night.
02:59And it's going to continue to happen and we're going to continue to grow.
03:01Because our candidates run a really good campaign.
03:04Well, Paul's shaking his head at some of the things you're saying.
03:07So, Paul, why?
03:08I mean, on your point on the NHS, you know, Nigel Farage has said that he would support a social insurance model for the national health service, changing its basis.
03:16And that's why Labour ran that campaign.
03:18So, hang on a minute, just think twice about this before you think about voting for reform.
03:22But, you know, on the mayoralty elections, the Reform Party did not break through in the three that Labour actually won last night.
03:29They had big swings, you know, and I give all credit for that.
03:32But they didn't win in some of these places like Doncaster, where they were predicted to.
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