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  • vor 9 Monaten
Nordmazedonien priorisiert seine Partnerschaft mit den Vereinigten Staaten und strebt gleichzeitig weiterhin eine EU-Mitgliedschaft an, erklärte Außenminister Timčo Mucunski im Gespräch mit Euronews The Europe Conversation.

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00:00Vielen Dank.
00:30Thank you very much for the opportunity to be a guest in your studio.
01:00Thank you.
01:01Thank you.
01:02So, I mean, without a doubt, we are one of these countries that has been historically,
01:07since its independence, committed to EU and NATO integration.
01:11We realized our goal of becoming a NATO member, but the key foreign policy priority of our
01:16country that has not been realized is EU membership.
01:20This year is what I call a sobering anniversary.
01:23It's 20 years since we have gained candidate status.
01:28In the meantime, the EU has enlarged.
01:32We started this process at one point even going further back to the stabilization and
01:37association process together with Croatia.
01:39Croatia is now a member of Schengen.
01:42It uses the euro as a currency.
01:43We still haven't opened accession negotiations.
01:47Of course, there have been faults by governments in terms of lack of delivery on some issues,
01:52without a doubt.
01:53But what is also a fact is that we have been a victim of far too much bilateralization of
02:00the EU process.
02:01Instead of focusing on criteria, on merit-based issues, focusing on bilateral issues that
02:06have nothing to do with the substance of a nation's path towards EU membership.
02:11This is a fair point.
02:12And two of those countries, as I mentioned there, Bulgaria and Greece, in particular on
02:16the Bulgarian issue, because obviously these countries have a veto anyway.
02:19So, whether you like it or not, the bilateral issues have to be resolved in some way.
02:23Will there be an inclusion for the Bulgarian minority within the constitution of North Macedonia?
02:28The issue is much more than the issue of inclusion of the Bulgarian minority.
02:34And I'll try in a nutshell to explain this to you.
02:37First of all, who has the most to gain from our country becoming an EU member?
02:41Of course, first, it's us, without a doubt.
02:44But secondary, it is the countries around us that are member states of the European Union.
02:48And here I mean Greece and Bulgaria directly.
02:52Now, in these more than 30 years of an EU path, we have made extremely difficult compromises.
02:58As I've mentioned many times before, we've changed our flag, we've changed our currency,
03:03we've changed our constitution several times, we've even changed the name of our country.
03:07All with the promise of a window of opportunity that we've been told existed,
03:12if we do these changes, for our path towards the European Union.
03:16And thus, the question and the dilemma that we pose to both EU institutions as well as the member states is,
03:23will this be the final compromise?
03:25Will we know that if these constitutional amendments are made,
03:29six months down the road, a year down the road, again, there will not be a veto because of a bilateral issue?
03:36So why we pose this question, first of all, to protect our own national interests,
03:41to not allow issues related to language, history, identity, to engulf our EU accession process,
03:48but also at the end of the day, to protect the credibility of European enlargement in the entire region,
03:53because there are malign actors out there who like to point the finger and say,
03:57do you really believe that the EU is honest in its intention for enlargement?
04:02Look at what they're doing to the Macedonians.
04:04And then we also had the Prespa agreement, which resolved the issue around Greece,
04:07but we have heard in the past, or recently, some ministers refusing to use the name North Macedonia,
04:14which again will create problems and confrontations with Greece.
04:17Is that an issue still?
04:19I mean, if I speak personally as an individual, and I remove myself from the position that I have,
04:24then I will never be able to say to you that I am happy with the Prespa agreement,
04:29that I believe the Prespa agreement is good,
04:31or that I believe the changing of the name of a nation is fair, especially in the 21st century.
04:36But at the end of the day, as foreign minister and as a lawyer,
04:40I understand that the principle of Pacta Sun Servanda and that agreements must be kept,
04:46especially in international public law, is a fundamental principle.
04:49And in that sense, we are a nation that will respect its obligations,
04:55but also a nation that expects its partners, its neighbours in the region,
05:00to also respect obligations in these agreements that they've made towards us.
05:05Okay, because you mentioned there Pacta Sun Servanda, agreements should be kept,
05:08and one of the issues that the EU has with North Macedonia and joining the EU is around the rule of law,
05:15independence of the judiciary, various types of corruption,
05:18and obviously that's hugely problematic because all EU member states will point to the deficiencies in the EU
05:24when they had the last bout of enlargement, particularly countries like Hungary, Slovakia and so on.
05:30So where is North Macedonia with making this, making greater progress on this?
05:35So this is one of the key priorities of our government.
05:38Our government was formed less than a year ago, and it has taken very direct steps towards fighting corruption,
05:46both high-level corruption but also corruption that exists in mid-level and low-level service,
05:52establishing a system of rule of law, but this is not something that we can do overnight.
05:57And I would once again reiterate, it is also a whole-of-society effort.
06:02It's not just about the executive delivery, but it's about a cultural change that has to happen within the judicial system.
06:09It's about bringing on board civil society and various different actors.
06:14And how long will that take? Because, I mean, this has been on the agenda for, as you mentioned, 20, 21 years.
06:18Regrettably, it's been on the agenda in rhetoric for maybe more than 30 years.
06:24But substantially, very little has been done.
06:28This is a process where we need to establish clear timeframes.
06:33Many of these types of timeframes going into the micro and meso aspects of these issues
06:38have already been done for us with the help of the European Union and European Union experts.
06:43And then we need to start delivering.
06:45Because this delivery is about government doing its job,
06:50but it's about creating this, as I said, cultural change within society,
06:54which helps stimulate investment, which helps stimulate entrepreneurship,
07:00which puts young people in a situation where they don't want to leave the country
07:05because many young people are departing, not just because of economic reasons,
07:09but because of an infunctional system of governance,
07:12and also hopefully put our country in a situation where young people that are living abroad
07:18want to come back, invest in the country, build families in the country,
07:23take part in political activities in the country.
07:26I mean, this is a priority of our government.
07:28I want to move on to the NATO foreign ministers meeting you hear.
07:31First of all, can I ask you a little bit about Russian interference in North Macedonia?
07:34I mean, one of the reasons why enlargement needs to happen quickly, they say,
07:39is because the countries in the Western Balkans need to be brought into the EU,
07:42away from the Russian orbit.
07:43Is that something that you would agree with that narrative, that premise?
07:47I think enlargement needs to happen for many reasons.
07:50But one of these reasons, from a security perspective,
07:54is, of course, the malign Russian influence that has been existing in our region that is there.
08:01I sometimes like to very openly point out that Russian influence,
08:06especially in our region, comes very cheap, and they know how to utilize it.
08:10Is it through social media?
08:11Can you tell us a little bit about hybrid cyber attacks?
08:14What is it?
08:14It's a mix of all of the very conventional methods, if I can label them,
08:19that Russia does use, and that happens in our region as well.
08:23And does it impact young people's viewpoints?
08:25Does it impact political parties?
08:27What is the upshot for countries like North Macedonia?
08:32So I think, first of all, generally, our society and our political establishment,
08:38going from government to opposition, is extremely pro-EU.
08:42And society wants to move forward towards EU membership.
08:47But one of the things that happens is when there's lack of clarity coming from the European Union
08:52and the member states, especially our issue as a prime example,
08:56then you will have Russian influence utilizing this to say,
09:01listen, the EU is not honest.
09:03It will never integrate the region.
09:06And if there's lack of delivery, credible delivery on the other side,
09:10then it's a battle that the pro-EU forces in our country
09:14have to wage with these various different spheres of influence that do exist
09:18and that will be utilized.
09:21I think one of the reasons why the EU needs to be very quick and expedient
09:26in its delivery to the entire region
09:28is to show that the clarity is there, the strategic vision is there.
09:34Can I ask you then, why did your country abstain on the UN resolution
09:39condemning Russian aggression in Ukraine?
09:41So our country, I like to point out, has three constants in its foreign policy.
09:46One of them is 100% alignment with the EU's common foreign and security policy.
09:51The second is our membership in NATO.
09:55And the third is our strategic partnership.
09:58We have a formal strategic partnership with the United States.
10:01In this situation, what I can say is that we have been one of the most consistent supporters
10:06of Ukraine from the NATO member states.
10:09We are one of the biggest supporters per GDP per capita for Ukraine
10:13in terms of defense and security support.
10:16But in this current situation, because there was no alignment
10:19within the CFSP, within the European Union,
10:23we chose to vote aligned with our strategic partner, the United States,
10:27which means that we do support Ukraine and we do support the necessity
10:32for protecting Ukraine's integrity and territorial sovereignty.
10:37But we also agree that there needs to be a path towards peace.
10:41So even that decision was in line with the very consistent foreign policy
10:45that we've had as a nation.
10:47How do you find then the negotiations so far,
10:49where it appears that very little concessions,
10:53actually no concessions, have been applied to Russia from the United States,
10:56and several to Ukraine, whether it's their energy systems,
11:00whether they're critical minerals, whether it's about a ceasefire?
11:04I mean, how do you see the U.S. treatment of Ukraine vis-à-vis the negotiations?
11:08So the perception that I have is that Ukraine is on board with this process
11:12and is actively taking part in this process.
11:16And at the end of the day, Ukraine is a sovereign nation
11:19that must make decisions for itself.
11:21What I can say is that we, as a NATO member country,
11:25support the path towards peace.
11:27It seems very obvious right now that the United States
11:30has a path towards peace, which they believe is viable.
11:34And in that sense, considering that Ukraine is on board with this process,
11:38we absolutely support the process that is being led by the Trump administration,
11:43Secretary Rubio, as well as the whole team,
11:46in finding a peaceful solution as soon as possible.
11:48Okay. Foreign Minister Tim Chomachinsky of North Macedonia,
11:52thank you very much for joining us on the Trump administration.
11:53Thank you very much for the invitation.
11:55Thank you so much.
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