'Unlikely' all of Mexico is corrupt, as Trump claims, no proof Mexican leaders collude with cartels

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00:00It's 10.30pm here in Paris and time to take a closer look at one of tonight's big stories.

00:22This is Apropos.

00:23Well, US Vice President J.D. Vance has been visiting the Mexico border along with the

00:28Defense Secretary and Director of National Intelligence to highlight the tougher immigration

00:33policies the White House says have led to dramatically fewer arrests for illegal crossings

00:39since Donald Trump began his second term in office.

00:43The trio have been speaking with reporters.

00:45Let's take a listen.

00:48It turns out we didn't need new laws, we didn't need fancy legislation, we just needed a new

00:52President of the United States and thank God that's exactly what we have.

00:56And I will say that the most heartening message that I take away from my visit here at the

01:01Texas border is the number of Border Patrol agents who have come up to me and said thank

01:06you or said because of this, we've cut the number of border crossings from 1,500 a day

01:12to 30 a day.

01:13Well, for more, let's cross live now to Fraser Jackson, he's our Washington correspondent.

01:18Fraser, we heard a little bit of what the US Vice President had there to say during

01:23that press conference.

01:25What else emerged?

01:26Yeah, well, JD Vance effectively saying that it's because of Donald Trump that the crossings

01:33are now at a record low, they're at the record low numbers since the year 2000, the financial

01:38year 2000.

01:40But of course, those numbers have been trending downwards in recent months.

01:45It wasn't something that started when Donald Trump got into office, it had been started

01:50at the end part of 2024 after record numbers under Joe Biden.

01:54JD Vance said that at that point in the border had been encountering 1,500 migrants a day

02:01and said that was down to 30.

02:03But like I said, crossings have been trending downwards, driven in part by policies on either

02:07side of the US-Mexico border.

02:10The numbers have plunged since Trump began implementing and broadcasting his sweeping

02:14immigration crackdown, it should be said, however.

02:16JD Vance says Trump has empowered border agents to do their jobs and said that he'd spoken

02:21to many of them over the course of his day-long trip there to the border with Secretary of

02:25Defence Pete Hexeth and the Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard as well.

02:30Now, the numbers kind of bear that out.

02:32There were over 130,000 encounters in both 2023 February and February 2024, while last

02:41month's numbers are down to just 8,300, which is the lowest since the record data began

02:49in the year 2000.

02:51Illegal border crossings spiked at the end of 2023 but started to slow downwards in 2024,

02:56like I said, after the Biden administration implemented new restrictions that Joe Biden

03:00put in place and also because of Mexican officials who ramped up the enforcement of those new

03:06laws as well, which experts believe played a key role in the lower numbers that we're

03:10seeing now.

03:11But of course, we've also seen the Mexican government sending thousands of troops to

03:16the border as part of an agreement to try to avoid some tariffs as well, and that has

03:20also played a role as to why we're seeing these lower numbers at the moment.

03:24Fraser, we'll leave it there for now.

03:25Thanks so much for joining us.

03:27That's Fraser Jackson, France 24's correspondent in Washington.

03:30Well, for more, let's bring in Ernesto Castaneda.

03:34He's Director of the Immigration Lab and the Centre for Latin American and Latino Studies

03:39at the American University.

03:41Thanks so much for being with us on the programme, Ernesto.

03:45Firstly, Donald Trump himself hasn't made a trip to the border since he was inaugurated

03:50for a second time.

03:52The White House saying this visit is evidence of the scope of his administration's focus

03:57on the issue.

03:58What do you think was the main message that these three were trying to portray this evening?

04:02We heard a little bit of what JD Vance had to say a little earlier.

04:07That's right.

04:08If it was Biden, he would be criticised for not going to the border himself.

04:13He spoke about this yesterday at the meeting with the joint Congress.

04:19And instead, we have the vice president here, a headset from the minister of defence and

04:24Gabbard from intelligence.

04:26And they are going there to celebrate.

04:28They are going there to support the Trump victory and to claim wrongly that the lower

04:32numbers at the border are thanks to President Trump.

04:36But as Fraser was saying, indeed, these numbers have been going down since 2024 because of

04:43some changes to asylum processes that the Biden administration put into place.

04:48And also because Mexico has been sending people back to the southern part of Mexico for them

04:54to wait there for an appointment, which used to be the application, the app CBP1, or also

05:00Mexico deporting an important number of people to their countries of origin.

05:03So this is where the trends are going.

05:05And if somebody should be giving credit for this, it should be Biden, not Trump.

05:10And Donald Trump, though he did, you know, it was one of the things that he really focused

05:14on when he came back into office, cracking down on immigration.

05:18Are any of the proposals that he has initiated since retaking office, are they actually having

05:24consequences yet on the ground?

05:27No, there was a bottleneck that happened during the pandemic where the border was crossed

05:35de facto, technically because of public health reasons.

05:39Since then, I had been saying that there will be an increase in border crossings between

05:44ports of entry or undocumented, and that they will eventually stabilize.

05:48And I think we're in that time when numbers have stabilized and people are setting in

05:53place.

05:54What we are seeing with the new executive orders from the Trump administration are changes

05:59for the people who were already inside the United States.

06:04That's where the numbers are.

06:05So on one side, he's restarting deportations from cities like New York, Chicago, et cetera,

06:11with increasing numbers compared to the Biden administration.

06:14And he's also now trying to deport people that entered during the Biden administration,

06:19but they enter legally either by asking asylum in the ports of entry or between ports of

06:24entry at the border wall.

06:26That administration has been calling illegal entries, but it's a way to enter legally.

06:30So there's people from four countries, Venezuela, Haiti, Cuba, and Nicaragua, who could be here

06:36in the U.S. with permission.

06:37But Trump has already said that he's not going to renew those temporary protected statuses.

06:42Therefore, these people could be deported.

06:45And we're seeing some of them being renewed.

06:47So there's a difference between Biden deporting people mainly arriving at the border and Trump

06:51now trying to deport more people from the interior.

06:54And Trump has also had a lot to say about what he feels is the negative impact of immigration

06:57within the United States.

06:58But you yourself have done research aimed at quantifying how much immigrants actually

07:04contribute to the American economy.

07:06What did you find?

07:10That's right.

07:11So immigrants contribute in many ways.

07:14They are proven to be sources of innovation.

07:17They start companies.

07:19They find different ways to solve practical problems.

07:21So they help in the advancement of science, technology and businesses solving problems

07:27and expanding to new markets.

07:29But besides the cultural and the human aspects, immigrants are an important fuel for the economy

07:35of any country, particularly the United States.

07:38Here, me and my colleagues did an estimation that in 2022, the people that sent remittances

07:44to their home countries, many of them undocumented, they sent $81 billion to other countries.

07:50And then we made a calculation and it turns out that they contributed to the U.S. economy

07:56at least $2.2 trillion.

07:59In other words, 8% of the GDP of the U.S. in 2022 or more than the whole Canadian economy.

08:07So if Trump really was to deport all of them, we will see a decrease in the GDP of the U.S.

08:14of around 8%, which will mean that the U.S. will be in a severe recession.

08:20So that's just some of the economic impact that immigrants have, whether they have papers

08:23or not.

08:24But most immigrants and asylum seekers are working or studying.

08:28That's what they do.

08:29And Ernesto, there have been reports also that the defence secretary has been warning

08:33that the U.S. will take military action inside Mexico if the country fails to meet Trump's

08:40border demands.

08:41How much of a concern is that raising inside Mexico?

08:45Yes, this discourse is new, is unique to this Trump administration.

08:53It's very open with very little coordination with the Mexican government.

08:57So therefore, many people inside of Mexico, including some government officials, are very

09:02offended and very worried about this possibility because Mexico has for many years been very

09:09careful about protecting its borders and its national sovereignty to armies from other

09:14countries.

09:15We haven't seen an incursion from the U.S. in many, many years.

09:19So this will be worrisome.

09:21But what we saw today in one of the declarations from J.D. Vance at the border today, he said

09:26that the purpose of nominating or calling organized crime, cartels in Mexico, and gangs

09:33was, he basically said it, an excuse so that they could use the military to protect the

09:39border and to defend it.

09:41And now yesterday, Trump said something very delicate in his state to Congress, his address

09:46to Congress, that the Mexican government has been helping organized crime.

09:52So therefore, Trump is creating this legal structure where an intervention like that

09:57in Mexico will be part of the U.S. defending its national security and its interests.

10:02And that is something justifiable in the eyes of the United States.

10:06But this wouldn't be something that Mexico would take lightly.

10:10And the international community will be very shocked if really troops or drones were sent

10:16to attack inside the Mexican territory.

10:18And is there any evidence of all at all of collusion between the Mexican government and

10:22drug cartels, as Trump suggests?

10:26And what can Mexico actually do about this?

10:28Well, this is something very delicate and something very complicated.

10:33And if there is evidence, there's ways to show this in court and to do trials.

10:37So in a way that Mexico has been cooperating already with the U.S. government is through

10:42extraditions or expulsion.

10:44Just a few days ago, 29 very looked after cartel members that were in prison in Mexico

10:50were sent to the United States for trial there.

10:54We have also Chapo Guzman, this famous drug lord, who is in New York following criminal

11:00proceedings.

11:01So Mexico has been cooperating with the U.S. on that.

11:04Mexico could go back to allowing DEA agents, the drug trafficking agency in the U.S., to

11:09operate and collaborate with Mexican agencies in Mexico.

11:13The Mexican government has been utilizing the military to fight the war on drugs in

11:17Mexico with mixed results.

11:20And there can be evidence found about collusion between local officials and some cartels.

11:26But to say that all of Mexico is corrupted and that all of Mexican politicians are in

11:32collusion with the drug traffickers, it's a big statement that has not been proven.

11:36And it's unlikely true, because there's many areas of the country that are still very peaceful,

11:40very productive, and that don't have this problem.

11:43But there's areas when there is an issue, and international cooperation will be welcome,

11:47but not a military intervention.

11:49Ernesto, we'll have to leave it there for now.

11:51Thanks so much for being with us this evening.

11:53That's Ernesto Castaneda, Director of the Immigration Lab and the Center for Latin American

11:58and Latino Studies at the American University.

12:00Thanks so much.

12:01Well, that's it from us for now.

12:04Do stay with us, though.

12:05We'll be back shortly with more world news.

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