Shift toward more plant-based foods will drastically reduce emissions: expert

FRANCE 24 English

A new report from medical and health experts is warning that climate change – driven by fossil fuel emissions – is raising heat levels to dangerous new heights, while also worsening drought and food security. About a third of all human-caused greenhouse gas emissions are linked to food, mostly via agriculture and land use. FRANCE 24's Sharon Gaffney speaks to Sparsha Saha, a lecturer at Harvard University's Department of Government.  Visit our website: http://www.france24.com  Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English  Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/France24_en

Transcript

00:00Welcome to Apropos.

00:04It's not only making temperatures deadlier,

00:06it's also making food more unreliable.

00:09A new report from medical and health experts

00:12is warning that climate change,

00:13driven by fossil fuel emissions,

00:16is raising heat levels to dangerous new heights

00:19while also worsening drought and food security.

00:22It's also increasing the diseases and pathologies

00:25associated with heat exposure.

00:28Eliza Herbert has more.

00:31Almost half of the world lived through extreme drought

00:34for at least one month last year.

00:37That's according to the new 2024 Lancet Countdown report

00:41that shows how, year on year,

00:43people are having to survive record temperatures.

00:46In particular, we've seen a 167% increase

00:50in heat-related deaths since the 90s.

00:53It's also limiting our capacity to work outdoors,

00:55which has an impact on our economies,

00:57on our income, and ultimately,

01:00our livelihoods, on which health depends.

01:02The annual report on health and climate change

01:04also found that hotter and drier temperatures

01:07increased the spread of diseases such as dengue and malaria.

01:11Increased sand and dust storms

01:13contributed to a 31% increase

01:15in exposure to dangerous particles.

01:18151 million people faced moderate or severe food insecurity

01:22with conditions exacerbating threats to agricultural systems.

01:26Sometimes devastating them completely.

01:30And the globe continued to experience

01:32record life-threatening events

01:33such as extreme heat waves, fires, and floods.

01:37But despite this, the authors say global emissions

01:40are increasing, not declining.

01:43As of March 2024, the 114 largest oil and gas companies

01:47were on track to exceed emissions,

01:49consistent with 1.5 degrees Celsius of heating

01:52by 189% in 2040.

01:56And forests were cut down at an alarming rate,

01:58reducing the world's natural capacity

02:00to capture atmospheric carbon.

02:03Each year, the report is released

02:04ahead of the annual United Nations Climate Change Conference,

02:08where nearly 200 countries gather to further action

02:11on climate change.

02:14Well, about a third of all human-caused

02:17greenhouse gas emissions is linked to food,

02:19mostly via agriculture and land use.

02:22To discuss this and the findings of the Landsat report,

02:25we're joined now by political scientist Sparsha Saha,

02:29lecturer at Harvard University's Department of Government.

02:32Thank you so much for being with us

02:34on the programme this evening.

02:36Your area of expertise, it's really centring

02:39on the politics of meat and animal rights.

02:43With each passing week,

02:44it seems that there's a new study, Sparsha,

02:47on telling us what we should be eating,

02:49various different health scares,

02:51even for the most health-conscious of us

02:54and environmentally aware consumer,

02:56it can be difficult to know exactly what we should be doing.

03:00What should we be doing?

03:02Hello, thank you so much for having me join.

03:06You're right, I think it can be overwhelming

03:09and there seems to be so much information out there

03:12and sometimes it can even seem contradictory.

03:15But the truth is that our food system,

03:17as it's currently designed,

03:20is quickly surpassing the bounds

03:22of what our planet can handle.

03:24And this is across a range of planetary boundaries,

03:27whether it's emissions that are heating up the planet,

03:30our use of land on the planet,

03:32biodiversity loss, chemical pollution.

03:35So all of these are being worsened by the food system

03:38and a big culprit within that are animal-sourced foods.

03:43So these are things like our meats and our dairy and our eggs

03:46and many of us love these things.

03:48They're important to our culture.

03:50They're important to nutrition.

03:53They have nutritional value.

03:54And so I think the key here is remembering

03:57that they're more precious.

03:59And I think when you have something that's more precious,

04:01you're more thoughtful about how you're using it.

04:05The reason why these foods are more precious

04:07is simply because they use more resources.

04:11So to grow a chicken or to grow a cow, for instance,

04:16you have to feed the animal.

04:18And feeding the animal because the animal is alive,

04:20the animal breathes, the animal moves,

04:23involves a great deal of energy conversion loss.

04:26So it's more efficient for the human to eat the soy

04:29being themselves rather than to feed the chicken

04:32or the cow with the soybean.

04:34And so for this reason, we use vast swaths of land

04:38on the planet to just grow food for animals.

04:41So there is an extreme approach

04:44and then there's something in the middle.

04:45And I think by increasing awareness

04:48that animal-based foods that we love are more precious,

04:52I think that's a more straightforward way

04:54that a person can think about the issue

04:57and see how they can be a part of change.

05:00Sparsha, how strong is the evidence

05:02that plant-rich diet shifts

05:05can meaningfully reduce carbon emissions

05:08and also protect human health?

05:11It's very strong.

05:13There is a scientific consensus

05:16that a shift toward more plant-based foods

05:20will drastically reduce emissions.

05:22And this is, in fact, most significant in countries

05:25that have high rates of animal foods consumption.

05:29So countries like the US, European countries, Australia,

05:34countries that are developed have levels

05:36of consuming animal-based foods that are very, very high.

05:41And so the emissions portion of food

05:44that is comprised by those specific emissions is highest.

05:47So reductions, switches in those countries in particular

05:52can be very influential.

05:54And earlier this year, there was a UN study

05:57that was facing calls to be retracted

05:59because it had allegedly misused research

06:02to underestimate the impact of cutting meat eating.

06:06So how powerful are the meat industry lobbyists

06:11in all of this?

06:14There's a big role, I think, in any industry

06:16where you have concentrated interests.

06:19There are going to be efforts

06:22to change what might be best for the public interest.

06:28At the same time, that said,

06:31there's also an issue of political willingness.

06:33Now, this is all of our interests

06:35in putting this issue on the political agenda.

06:39And I think that in a functioning democracy,

06:46there are going to be different interests at play,

06:48but if the public interest is not active

06:51and it's not playing a role shaping policy on this,

06:56then that is a part of the story as well.

06:59So I think there is an aspect of this

07:01where we all have to look at ourselves

07:03and have to educate ourselves and be aware of the impact

07:07and petition our policymakers to take this issue on.

07:11I think it can be easy sometimes

07:13to point the finger elsewhere.

07:16And this is not to say that those interests are significant

07:21and they play a role,

07:22certainly with the UN report that you mentioned.

07:26I believe what the issue was

07:28is that the underreporting stemmed from the measurement

07:32and the reporting only direct emissions

07:34and did not include indirect emissions.

07:36So these are the emissions that occur,

07:38for example, when you cut down forests

07:40and you release a great deal of CO2

07:42into the atmosphere that way.

07:44So that was not included,

07:45it was included in a different part of the analysis.

07:48So it suddenly looked like the livestock sector

07:51was not contributing as much as scholars

07:53know it is contributing,

07:55which is 11 to 20% of all total greenhouse gas emissions

07:59on the planet.

08:00So while interests play a role,

08:02there are other factors.

08:04And as citizens, we are able to do,

08:07I think, much more than we think.

08:09Food waste is also, you mentioned citizens,

08:11food waste is another huge issue, isn't it?

08:14More than a third of food produced in the US,

08:16for example, it's never eaten.

08:18Households are actually the largest producers of waste.

08:23That's correct.

08:24In developed countries,

08:25when it comes to food loss and waste,

08:27it's the food waste part that tends to be higher.

08:29And in developing countries, the food loss part,

08:32so this is the waste that occurs at the farm gate,

08:35tends to be highest.

08:36So in developed countries,

08:39tackling issues around expiration dates,

08:42around how much produce is showing up in grocery stores

08:46is certainly part of the solution.

08:49If you read the work of the Eat Lancet Commission,

08:52there are three pillars that we could be pulling right now

08:55to address food.

08:57These are addressing food loss and waste,

09:00shifting our diets and changing farming practices.

09:03I think part of food loss and waste

09:06is thinking about what is most precious

09:08that we are wasting.

09:09So certainly within that bucket,

09:12the meats we buy, the eggs we buy,

09:14those are the most precious things.

09:16So in your refrigerator,

09:17making sure you're using those items first

09:20as quickly as possible is a great strategy for folk at home.

09:24And also individuals can only do so much,

09:27but there are issues as well

09:28with the products that we're actually buying.

09:30Health scares when it comes to food,

09:33sometimes it feels like they're increasing.

09:34This week here in Europe,

09:35we've had concerns about tuna,

09:37about the mercury levels in tuna.

09:39We had the E. coli situation

09:41with the burgers at McDonald's in the US.

09:44Is it the case that these kinds of health scares

09:46are increasing and what can be done about this?

09:50Yes, and to add to that,

09:52bird flu in dairy herds in the US as well,

09:56which is particularly scary,

09:57hasn't reached the status of a pandemic yet,

10:00but I think a lot of people's eyes are on bird flu on H5N1.

10:05Yes, these are going to be exacerbated

10:09certainly as temperatures get warmer

10:11because bacteria can thrive more in warmer temperatures.

10:17And there's other vectors as well

10:18that explain why these sorts of scares are worse.

10:23That said, as far as the increasing rate,

10:28what do scholars know?

10:30From my understanding,

10:33the food system has a number of safety measures in place

10:37that have reduced the dangers,

10:41but the problem is that no system that humans create

10:45is going to be perfect.

10:47And so with that in mind,

10:50addressing the foundations of what is wrong

10:52in the food system is going to be the key for all of us,

10:58because at some point,

10:59something will get through the cracks.

11:01So we can have as many regulations as we want.

11:04We can make sure we're cleaning hen houses regularly,

11:09which is part of that salmonella scare

11:11that occurred in France,

11:12although we don't quite know what the exact

11:15cause was.

11:16But ultimately, even if we're perfect

11:19or as perfect as we can be,

11:22we're playing roulette.

11:27Mutations occur randomly.

11:28And because there are so many farm animals

11:30and most of them are kept in industrialized settings,

11:34the probability that something will emerge

11:37and make its way through the system is high ultimately.

11:41And it's not just the food system.

11:43The food system is high ultimately.

11:45And it gets worse as our demand for these foods increases.

11:50So because we are not able to have a perfect system,

11:54a One Health approach,

11:56meaning an approach where we understand

11:58that the welfare of animals is tied up to our welfare,

12:03tied up to the planet's welfare,

12:06is one that thinks about the foundations of the problem

12:10and really nips it in the bud,

12:13nips the problem in the bud.

12:14So I think hopefully we understand

12:17that that is a direction that we should be moving.

12:20And I see public institutions

12:22putting this on the agenda more.

12:24So I think it's gaining ground.

12:26Sparsha, thank you so much for that.

12:29It's a huge conversation, big topic.

12:31We do really appreciate your time

12:32on the program this evening.

12:34That's Sparsha Saha, Political Scientist

12:36at Harvard University's Department of Government.

12:40So that is it from us.

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