Whale of an activist: 'Entity not complying with international law is not Paul Watson but Japan'

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00:00In Greenland, a court announcing that Paul Watson is to remain in detention.

00:06He was picked up on an extradition request from Japan.

00:11The lifelong anti-whaling campaigner has been detained over the 2010 ramming of a Japanese

00:19whaling ship.

00:21The Sea Shepherd founder, who at 73 would face a long prison sentence, Danish courts

00:30to rule on October the 2nd.

00:33Eliza Herbert has more.

00:36Since July, Paul Watson has been detained in Greenland, awaiting possible extradition

00:41to Japan.

00:42How are you?

00:43Your reaction to this?

00:44Oh, it is what it is, and it puts more pressure on Japan.

00:47Yet still, he remains upbeat.

00:50After almost 50 years of tireless anti-whaler activism, the environmentalist was nabbed

00:55under an international arrest warrant issued by Japan for allegedly causing damage to one

01:00of the country's whaling ships in the Antarctic over a decade ago.

01:05Watson is the founder of Sea Shepherd and well known for his often radical tactics in

01:09defence of marine life, such as confronting whaling ships out at sea.

01:16His direct action is said to have saved more than 5,000 whales around the world, making

01:21him an icon for environmentalists and a problem for whaling nations.

01:27This is part of why Watson and his supporters feel there is a vendetta against him.

01:31They say the alleged crime warrants a fine and not a potential 15 year prison sentence.

01:37These allegations are actually no more than misdemeanours and hooligism.

01:42You'd get a $1,500, sorry, $1,500 kroner fine and you wouldn't face any time in jail.

01:50So it's ridiculous this man's been held on misdemeanour allegations from another country.

01:58More than 120,000 people have signed a petition for his release.

02:02And in Paris on Wednesday, crowds gathered to show their support.

02:06They see him not as a criminal, but rather a man who has dedicated his life to protecting

02:10the planet.

02:13And for more, we're joined by attorney William Jullier, who is part of the legal team representing

02:19Paul Watson.

02:20Thanks for being with us here on France 24.

02:24Your reaction to the ruling?

02:27He's not extradited, but he's still in jail.

02:30In addition of disappointment and maybe even of some kind of fury, the extradition process

02:41is ongoing, but one sees no reason why he would not be able to wait for the next judicial

02:50steps not being in jail.

02:53He's not a flight risk?

02:56Surely not a flight risk.

03:00It is mentioned that going back more than 10 years ago in Germany, that at one point

03:06he would have not complied with his judicial control, but this is a very long time ago.

03:16And when one gets into the details of the case, there are a lot of questions that must

03:23be raised regarding why Interpol has continued to diffuse a red notice, which we understand

03:32is what has backed this arrest.

03:36Why 14 years after the first warrant of arrest was issued in Japan regarding what the supposed

03:49offences are connected with in terms of facts.

03:54This goes back 14 years ago.

03:57So there's also a time limit issue that will need to be looked into in detail.

04:05And then there are a lot of things to be looked into in terms of the merits of the case.

04:10And this has started to be investigated yesterday, the day before, I think there were interviews

04:17carried out by the police, because as it is now, it is a police proceeding ongoing.

04:22So Japan claims that there were people who were injured when Paul Watson's ship blocked

04:30the Japanese whaling vessel.

04:33Serious charges could be years behind bars.

04:35We heard a clip in that report saying these are misdemeanor charges.

04:39So which is it?

04:40Yeah, no.

04:42They claim one man was injured.

04:47There's very strong evidence that we are sharing and that has been shared obviously with the

04:53investigators showing that if there has been an injury, possibly the injury does not come

05:01at all from this bottle that was sent on the boat, that was thrown on the boat.

05:11Number two, there are very serious questions about any connection between what happened

05:16and Paul Watson, who was not on the scene.

05:20The guy who admitted that he was on the boat and was involved in throwing this device received

05:29a very mild sentence in Japan, I think a two year totally suspended prison term.

05:35He served six months of preliminary custody.

05:41And we can get to that, which we know Japan uses as to obtain testimonies from people

05:49pressuring them to obtain sometime accusations against other people.

05:53One must remember that Japan was considered by a 2020 United Nations decision in the Carlos

06:03Ghosn case by the Working Group on Arbitrary Detention where it was retained that these

06:12periods of preliminary custody in Japan were not compliant with fundamental human rights

06:20and were not compliant with a fair process.

06:24And it was clearly said that the conditions of detention and interrogation in Japan were

06:33meant to put pressure on people in order to obtain these kind of accusations.

06:38So there's a lot of things to be looked into.

06:41And it is shocking that 14 years after regarding the details of the case, when you look into

06:48them, that this warrant was still active and that this warrant was still in interval files.

06:54But we'll look into Interpol also in due course.

06:57Why is Denmark applying that red notice?

07:02That is a good question.

07:03I consider, and as I said, we'll investigate Interpol matter in due course and we are working

07:09on it, working on an application that we will send to Interpol Special Commission of Control

07:16of Files to seek clarification.

07:19We consider that this red notice is politically motivated, had been put in the system a long

07:26time ago.

07:27We're going to try and figure out why it was still in or was it taken out and put back

07:32in.

07:33But anyways, we consider that it should not have been in the system.

07:36And also we consider that Denmark should not have carried out an arrest on the face of

07:42this red notice would it have been in the system because one month.

07:46When you say politically motivated, just to be clear, is it Japan's request that's

07:51politically motivated or is Denmark in cahoots with Japan in being on the side of whaling

07:57ships?

08:00My view is clearly that it is Japan's request which is politically motivated.

08:06This is what I said.

08:08Then when it will come and if it comes to try to understand what were the communications

08:14between Denmark and Japan, we will obviously do it.

08:18It is obvious that there have been communications in regards to this arrest prior to the arrest,

08:26following the arrest and it will be of interest to try to understand how much pressure and

08:31what kind of pressure Japan has put on Denmark and how that was followed by effects or not.

08:38But anyways, in regards to your question and Denmark, it is an overwhelming necessity

08:51that Denmark reviews this case following the highest principles of the European Convention

09:03on Human Rights, Denmark and Greenland, because there is this complicated situation of interplay

09:09between Greenland jurisdiction and Danish jurisdiction.

09:13But whichever we are talking about, the two must comply with ECHR provisions.

09:20That means Article 3, risk of ill-treatment, Article 6, fair process.

09:26Article 8, possibly right to family life.

09:30But on Article 3 and Article 6, obviously there will be huge issues for Denmark judges

09:41and they will have to assess the risks of an extradition for Paul Watson alongside this

09:49question of political motivation.

09:51France's president has expressed his support for Paul Watson.

09:54Is there anything more that the French, the European Union should be doing?

10:00I think the European Union should also be taking positions as the French president decided

10:05to do so.

10:06We know that Paul Watson has spent some time in France, was living here for some time.

10:15There's huge international, worldwide support, not only from political personalities or important

10:24personalities, actors, artists, you name it, but also all around the world from people

10:30on the streets defending the values that Paul Watson has been fighting for all his life.

10:39It's the question also, to bring this back to legal considerations, about do activists

10:48deserve a special protection as whistleblowers?

10:53There are legal frameworks protecting whistleblowers when they disclose information.

10:59Activists under case law of the European Court of Human Rights are entitled a specific protection.

11:08And what are the legal ramifications of whaling?

11:11After all, there is a 1982 UN ban on it.

11:15Yes.

11:16This is something that shows what is Japan's position in this case.

11:22There is a treaty, there was a ban on whale fishing, except for scientific reasons.

11:29Japan was caught and sentenced by the International Court of Justice in 2014, I think, on a complaint

11:39by Australia.

11:41It was considered by the highest international court that Japan was violating the treaty.

11:50After that, Japan, first of all, retrieved from the mechanism, giving the International

12:00Court of Justice jurisdiction on any matter related to sea matters, to fishing, and then

12:08retrieved from the treaty itself a couple of years after.

12:13So this is a clear demonstration of the fact that between Japan and Paul Watson, the entity

12:22which is not complying with international law is not, or with the law, is not Paul Watson,

12:29but is Japan, but on a higher level.

12:32On a higher level.

12:33And therefore, what's your next move?

12:36Our next move is a number of moves, fighting this detention decision by way of appeal.

12:45Does it end there?

12:46No, of course not.

12:47Then the case will end up anyways on the desk of the Danish justice minister, who will make

12:56a decision, hopefully non-favorable to extradition.

13:02If favorable to extradition, we will attack that decision, and this will go up to the

13:07Danish Supreme Courts.

13:11And if we are not successful there, we will bring the case before the European Court of

13:17Human Rights, as you have understood, we will.

13:22And that will possibly be the last judicial word with the possibility to request interim

13:29measures and that the court makes an injunction to Denmark or to Greenland not to extradite

13:37until a decision has been made by the European Court of Human Rights.

13:40William Jullier, one final question here.

13:43We heard the other day on French radio an interview with Paul Watson.

13:46It was conducted through one of the activists from Sea Shepherd who asked him the questions

13:52and he answered them and they played the audio back.

13:56Has your legal team been able to speak to him in the last couple of days?

13:59How is he?

14:00What's his morale like?

14:02My understanding is that his morale is a fighting morale.

14:05Obviously, he's in a situation which is extremely difficult.

14:14Some of our international colleagues have been able to meet him.

14:19Also, the Danish team is meeting him on a regular basis and he's able to coordinate

14:30our work, to give us insight on the facts.

14:34And he's, as I said, in a fighting spirit.

14:38William Jullier, many thanks for coming in here on France 24.

14:43Thanks for having me again.

14:45Stay with us.

14:46Much more to come here on France 24.

14:50We'll have the latest in sports on the Paralympics with fencing from the Grand Palais.

14:58Our own James Vezina is there.

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