00:00Hello and welcome back to the 77% Street Debate. My name is Edith Kimani and this week we are in
00:05unfamiliar territory. We are in the second largest city of Germany, Hamburg. Now in recent years,
00:10it's come to be a home for experts looking for better opportunities abroad. Among those of course
00:16are Africans. The reasons why they're here, they will be telling us shortly, but also the
00:20implications that their absence at home has on their economies there. And we're going to begin
00:25with Abubakar. You're a Nigerian and you came here in 2020, but you didn't stay very long because you
00:31were here for your master's. Went back to Nigeria and then decided to return. Tell me a little bit
00:35about that. I think as someone who has master's, I have better opportunities here in Germany.
00:41If I am to be paid the same salary I'm getting in Germany, in Nigeria, I would gladly move to
00:47Nigeria, but because I don't have such opportunities, then I am left with no other option than to
00:52move back to Germany and look for a job. Yeah, but you're not speaking theoretically because when
00:57you moved back to Nigeria, you actually attempted to find a job. How did that work out for you?
01:02Yeah, to be honest, I couldn't get the job I wanted because as someone that studied mathematics,
01:07everybody thinks, everybody from the community thinks I'm supposed to teach or work somewhere
01:12in the banks, which was where I worked before I moved to Germany for my master's. So I had to come
01:17back and look for a real job. Yeah, somebody else who has a similar experience is precious. He's
01:22actually Dr. Precious. Like Abubakar here, you also moved back to Nigeria hoping to get employment,
01:28but you only stayed there for eight months. Yes, it was quite challenging. I made a lot of
01:33applications to different institutions, companies, universities, and at the end of the day, you get
01:38nothing back. Of course, there's the need for people like me back home in Nigeria, but the question is,
01:43is the infrastructure there? Somebody else who definitely needs infrastructure and facilities
01:48is Hawa. You are a maritime engineer, the first one I have to admit that I've ever spoken to,
01:53and you also tried to get a job in Nigeria, but that didn't go down quite as planned.
01:57I started looking for a job, but it was pretty difficult for me. So many people told me,
02:02okay, you're female. Some said, okay, you're willing to and all of that. And when I eventually got a job,
02:08it was pretty hard for me because I had to do, you know, double the effort. I have to put in
02:13double the effort to be seen as someone who is capable of carrying out the job.
02:17So we're going to come back to some of the issues that played your different industries in a short
02:22while, but I want us to get grounded in some statistics first. And Roger here actually works
02:26with a company that brings workers to Germany. And you tell me it's because somebody was
02:31desperately looking for workers. Yeah, actually somebody in Hamburg, and it was a bus driving
02:36company, one of the two largest bus driving companies in Germany. And now the first
02:40five bus drivers, one group for integration reasons, not to be so lonely, to help each
02:45other out, this kind of thing. We'll start in Flensburg, which is even farther up north than
02:49Hamburg, and the next five will probably come to Hamburg also this year. So you're still very
02:54much in the early days, but somebody might listen to you and say, well, Germany also has an
02:59unemployment problem. Why not hire German drivers to drive those buses? Who said that Germany,
03:04Germany has an unemployment problem? Well, statistically, there is a figure there when
03:08you look at Germany unemployment. Yeah, okay. Statistically, there is a figure, but this is very,
03:13very low. So there is a demand for skilled workers in every field. We are speaking not only
03:19about bus drivers, we're speaking about doctors, lawyers, judges, architects, name it. Yeah. So
03:26these are essentially known as deficit professions, the ones that he's just mentioned,
03:31including engineering. And Germany, specifically, according to the latest figures by the Chamber of
03:37Commerce and Industry, is apparently falling short by 2 million positions. Is that how you
03:42felt when you came into this country again? Not really. Because there are lots of people in
03:50Germany, both indigenous and foreigners who come to Germany to work and these people don't even
03:57find the jobs that we keep hearing in abundance. Although yes, so many people do find these jobs,
04:04but you still find even much more people not finding these jobs. So sometimes they end up
04:09going back home to then look for a job at home or they might come back again. Let me come back to
04:15Roger because while we were speaking earlier, you did mention to me that one of the biggest
04:19challenges, which I thought was interesting, is that people don't stay. I just can tell you that
04:23our clients or possible clients say this is the greatest challenge. People come and they leave
04:28after a year. So the key word here is integration, I think. But I also believe like when I see
04:34everybody here around, they come for university or something alone, and they have to find their
04:39way. And if they come in winter, that is even worse. And they don't know, because nobody really
04:43expects coming from an African country that we have four or five or six months of shitty weather,
04:48you know, I mean, shitty weather. And you can explain that to people from Kenya, wherever I
04:53can, as long as I want to, you have to experience it. Otherwise, you won't believe it. If you
04:58survive in Germany for one or two years, and maybe you even a family and you can bring it over,
05:02I think you will stay for a long time. Okay, we are, you know, we are not very
05:08joyous people. Okay, when you get to know us, I think everyone is laughing because they recognize
05:15exactly what you're saying. But because you mentioned the idea of being integrated, and
05:19perhaps one day hoping to go back home, let me just see by show of hands, how many people here
05:24have an agenda to relocate fully back into their motherland in the next, say, five years.
05:29Wow. 10 years, maybe. Maybe, maybe for 10 years. Okay. So but Philip, let me ask you something.
05:40Do you feel beholden? Are you responsible for building Ghana? I mean, I was born a Ghanian
05:47for a reason, I believe. So I have to contribute whatever quota I have to contribute to Ghana to
05:52help build it. But currently, I don't see myself having the capacity, the money, you know,
05:57experience to do that. So I would want to get all of these here or somewhere in Europe,
06:03developed country to... But how does Africa develop if all the skilled people are coming
06:09to the developed world? Yeah, so exactly like me, I come to get the knowledge and then go back and
06:13then create a business or establish a business and then help the economy grow. Okay, so you
06:19don't feel like you have or you owe your country anything at this point? At this point, sometimes I
06:26try to convince myself I don't owe them anything. But within me, I feel I owe them something.
06:33Okay, so Philip is convincing himself he doesn't owe Ghana anything. Emanuela, do you need to
06:38convince yourself that Cameroon doesn't need you? Actually, I don't need to convince myself.
06:44And I think we are not the ones to answer that question, unfortunately. So now that we are doing
06:49this, I hope the government is watching and they should answer this. And this is not just about
06:54jobs. We've had people for, for example, in Cameroon will think, okay, if I can't get a job,
07:00I can do a business back home. And then they go and the taxes are crazy. And sometimes maybe you
07:07have to bribe your way to do a business that is going to benefit your country. If we all carry
07:13ourselves back home, because we think we owe our country something, and then we have to stay hungry.
07:19That's really been, sorry, foolish. Okay. Abubakar, I know that you have some very strong opinions
07:26about this. Do you think your country has let you down? Are they creating the infrastructure,
07:30the frameworks for you to be able to thrive back in Nigeria? So to be honest, I would say,
07:37sometimes it's not even that there is no job. Sometimes there is job both for some certain
07:43people. What do you mean? Like for some, for some people, for people that are connected for people
07:48that know someone who is at the top. Okay. Hold on. This guy just shouted nepotism. I have to come
07:53here. Yeah. I mean, what Abubakar said was correct. There might be jobs, but chances are,
08:01they will just give it to someone who is related to them rather than give it to some set of people
08:06who are qualified to do that. And that eventually has like a domino effect because if you put the
08:11wrong person with the wrong skills for a job, then they don't know what to do. They're just
08:16picking the salary and not adding value to the society that they are to. There's nepotism,
08:22there's corruption and the industries are simply not developed. So because I want us to wrap this
08:27up, I do want to find out, you know, how do we make this sustainable? Because Europe will continue
08:32to need workers and workers will continue to come to Europe or other developed nations.
08:38How do we do that while still taking care of African economies? Any takers? Abubakar? So I
08:45would say almost everybody you see here is contributing to the Africa's economy because
08:51at the end of the day, we are sending money back home. I feel like I would want to contribute more.
08:56Maybe some of us feel like we're contributing less because I think Nigeria owe me a lot. So I
09:00would want to contribute more in the future. So all right, Emanuela, let me hear from you because
09:05I know that you told me that you usually advise people unless you have found some firm ground
09:10here, do not attempt to go back home. Sure, and I do that all the time. Unless you have a job back
09:17home, do not go back home. So if you have a better job here, stay and be established before you can
09:25go back home. You know, we asked at the beginning why so many skilled workers are leaving their
09:29mother countries to come and work in Europe. The answers are many. One, Germany needs them and two,
09:35they definitely need the money. How to be sustainable? You've heard all the answers
09:39there. Thank you all for watching. Bye-bye.
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