00:00So Pam, how you doing? I'm good, thank you. Cool, and we're here at Upper Gornall? Upper Gornall
00:06Pensioners' Club. Cool, in what looks like a nice building. According to the council it's
00:13about to tumble down upon you though isn't it, and they want it knocked down. Fill us in,
00:17what's been going on Pam? That's what they've been saying to us, that it's ready to tumble down.
00:22It's been standing since 1958, and they just generally want the haul from us,
00:31and they want the land from us. So they mentioned there was some issue about pipework,
00:35but you were saying that's been fixed? That's been repaired, but they reckon that the actual
00:40damage to the pipework had got rid of some of the footings underneath the building.
00:47And you guys here, you dispute that. There's a crack in the building that was mentioned,
00:52but you said that crack's been here 20 years? It's been 20 years, it's been monitored for the
00:56last four years, and it hasn't moved. So what's behind this then? So your
01:03councillor basically, from what I can gather, are they saying this is their land and they want it,
01:08but you're saying no it's not? They're saying it's their land, their building, and they want it,
01:14and we're disputing the fact that the Upper Gornell Pensioners own the land and the building.
01:23So you're disputing, if I'm the councillor and I'm saying well this is my land, I own this,
01:28what's your dispute then? What are you saying? I'm wrong? Well you're definitely wrong, because
01:33we've got proof of the build. It was built in stages from the pensioners raising money.
01:39The land was gifted by the Westfield Church to the Upper Gornell Pensioners in 1952,
01:46and that's in the archives of the Westfield Church. Yeah, so there's all documents to
01:53show that then. So have you put that to them, and what have they said? Well we put that to them last
02:01Thursday, and these questions were given to them the week before, and they just never answered any
02:08of the questions that we sent to them. The lady in question kept on saying that we apologised,
02:15but she never apologised. She never actually said I'm sorry. Yeah, so what goes on here then? What
02:24goes on here at the club? Obviously there's a few here today, so go on. Well there's three clubs,
02:28there's the Monday Dropping Centre, there's the Tuesday Club and the Wednesday Club,
02:33and I actually run the Wednesday Club, and we are the charity. Yeah. We also hire the all out to
02:41the government, the council, tenants association, anybody that wants to hire a hall, we hire it out.
02:50We have the upkeep of the hall. We pay the gas, the electric, water, all the utilities,
02:56and we keep the hall going. Yeah. We take the pensioners out on trips. Yeah. Out for meals,
03:04we meet every Wednesday, we play bingo, we have a chat, tea, coffee. Yeah, yeah. So if this
03:13was to go, have they said well we want to knock this down and we'll give you another building
03:18somewhere else, or what have they said? We've searched for a building ourselves. Yeah. And we can't find
03:23anything else. That's suitable. Yeah. Anybody want to say anything about what it means to have
03:29this centre to, you know, to come to and meet people and socialise? Come on now, don't be shy.
03:39Anyone? It's a lifeline for someone that lives with anybody. It's a lifeline. Yeah.
03:47So it's that kind of connection, it's that whole social thing and that. Yeah.
03:53Go on madam, what about you? Let's come and pick on you. Just like everybody else is saying.
03:58Yeah. We meet up, have a chat. Yeah. Cup of tea, whatever. So it really would. And when you live
04:04on your own, it takes, it motivates you to get out. Yeah. And you'd all echo that then folks,
04:10so you'd feel kind of lost without it. We're nearly all widows anyway. Exactly. So it's socialising.
04:17Yeah. The friendships that you make. Yeah. Well that's it. How many people? 120 in the three
04:23clubs. Yeah. So that's 120 lives kind of really been changed really by it. Some of them were in
04:30the nineties. Yeah. Yeah. I am. Yeah. So what stage are you at now then Pam? Is it a case of
04:39kind of... But it's a stalemate at the minute because the council haven't got back to us.
04:44We've still got all this information and we're trying to find out more information about it.
04:50Yeah. But they've just got to get back to us with some answers.
04:56Adam, just fill us in on who you are and what you're doing here.
05:00So my name's Adam Aston. I'm one of the councillors that represents Upper Gornwall
05:03and Woodset on Dudley Council and Upper Gornwall Pensions Club is within my patch. Yeah. I've been
05:10incredibly shocked, saddened and concerned about the way this whole issue has been dealt with by
05:17the council, by council officers to force entry into the club and effectively load the contents
05:26into a van without any consultation with the committee, with the members. I think it was an
05:32appalling thing to do and as others have said, isolation is a real issue for older people within
05:42our community and this place has really has been a lifeline for older members of the community for
05:47the last 70 years. I'm fully in support of the campaign to effectively save this building and
05:56ask the council quite how we've got to this stage. Yeah. I mean, what's going on here? You know,
06:03they seem to be coming in and saying, well this is our building, this is our land, but it would
06:06appear that they're just very wrong on that. As far as I'm aware, there's always been a question
06:11mark over the ownership of both the building and the land. I've been a councillor here for 14 years
06:18and many years ago the council said to me that they categorically did not own this building.
06:25That seems to have changed, but no one can explain what led to that change and I think
06:33that's one of the important things we need to determine. Yeah, and I mean, you know, this
06:38building's already here, it's already in use, it's already got its membership. You know, other places
06:43to be crying out for a service like this that looks after 120 senior people. Is that the way
06:50we should say that? I don't want to put it without getting lynched. You know, but yet here we are
06:55again and it seems like they will kind of just want to knock that down and, you know, without
07:01nothing to replace it. And particularly at the moment with, you know, cost of living and, as I
07:06say, isolation being such a huge issue as we move out of Covid, we realise how important it is
07:13to get together. This building is the perfect size, it's the perfect location, it's on a bus route,
07:19everything about it works and quite how the council can come up with a figure of ÂŁ100,000
07:27to carry out repairs for a building that is essentially the size of a big bungalow is
07:35off the scale. Well, we kind of, we come across these issues, don't we, because people might
07:40think, well, hang on, I can get the, you know, Joe Bloggs down the road to do that job for a fraction
07:45of the price. But am I right in thinking the way it works with council, they have appointed contractors.
07:50So even if you say, well, I've got a qualified person who can do the job here and he's going to
07:54do it for a quarter of the price, the council will most likely say, well, he's not on our list, so we
07:59won't be. That's very often the case. I think that figure of ÂŁ100,000 has been determined by
08:06an inspection carried out by Dudley Council itself. I think it would be interesting to have
08:12an independent assessment of the work that needs to be done and how much it would be likely to
08:19cost. I'm not an expert in these things, but ÂŁ100,000 for a building this size, it seems
08:25absolutely ridiculous. So Pam, just fill us in on what happened exactly, in terms of them
08:31forcing entry and coming and taking, I mean, you were saying normally there's curtains and
08:35everything on these walls. It looks a lot more snug and homely than this. So they said to you,
08:42the building's not safe, you need to get out ASAP. So you said... On the 15th of May we were told this,
08:48so we said, okay, we'll vacate it temporarily. And then they wanted a meeting with us all,
08:54with the council, to move forward. A meeting was arranged for the 20th of June.
09:01And we submitted all the questions that we thought we needed answers for. On the 7th of June,
09:12we had a statement saying, yeah, it's all going ahead for the meeting for the 20th. On the 8th
09:19of June, I had a phone call saying that somebody had broke into the building and when we came down
09:26there was workmen here and they'd stripped it. So they'd crowbarred the door open.
09:31Yeah. They crowbarred all the curtains off the wall, pulled the curtains down. Yeah. And they said
09:37that they needed to make it secure. Well, they've made it more insecure because the curtains were
09:43hiding what was inside the building, now it's all open. So they'd started taking all the stuff out,
09:49the tables, the chairs and everything. The tables and chairs was on the lower down. They crowbarred all private
09:54cupboards open where we keep sugar, tea and all the utensils that we use. Yeah. They crowbarred all
10:03those open. And this was, they said, on the orders of the council? Orders of the council. Yeah.
10:11I parked my car in front of the wagon so it couldn't move. Yeah. And then it was a stalemate.
10:18I found the police and the next thing I knew somebody had found the council and they'd reversed
10:26the orders. They told everybody to bring it back in. What did the police say incidentally when you
10:31found them? It was a civil matter. Right, okay. I'm a bit speechless really. I don't know if I've ever been
10:38speechless on one of these videos. Just to make the point, this building, the running costs of it
10:46and what you do here, changing the lives of 120 senior people, it costs the council nothing
10:52doesn't it? Not at all. We pay. We are the Wednesday group. We are the charity. We raise the money to
11:00keep this all going. We pay all the bills, the amenities for the bills. The council do check
11:06the water to make sure that we've got no problems with water. Yeah. But we've only got cold water
11:13anyway. We've got no hot water. Yeah. So Pam, were you just showing us the crack and that was there?
11:20So that's the crack up on the ceiling. Yeah. But that doesn't appear to be anything to do with
11:26this part. That's been there 20 years that? Yeah. 20 years. 20 years and not got any worse? No. And it's been
11:30monitored for the last three years by the council themselves and he's taken photographs and it
11:37proved that this hasn't moved.
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